392 I Did Not Know That! Garden Tips for Success, Live

Debbie Arrington of the Sacramento Rose Society club introduces Master Gardener Farmer Fred and horticulture professor Debbie Flower at a recent meeting of the club. Fred and Debbie don't necessarily talk about roses, though. They share 10 essential tips to boost your overall gardening success—from innovative seed germination techniques to managing soil health and tackling invasive pests. This lively discussion emphasizes daily garden observation and sustainable practices, ensuring your garden thrives beautifully. Get ready to dig deep into the art of gardening!

Previous episodes, show notes, links, product information, and transcripts at the home site for Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, GardenBasics.net. Transcripts and episode chapters also available at Buzzsprout. 

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Pictured: Rose Show at the Sacramento Rose Society. Roses: Whirlaway, Marriotta, Magic Show, Dolly Parton

Links:

“Beyond the Garden Basics” Newsletter  This week’s edition: Tips for more effective drip irrigation on raised garden beds. By becoming a paid subscriber, you’re helping support the newsletter and this podcast. Thank You!

Dave Wilson Nursery https://www.davewilson.com/home-garden/

Fair Oaks Horticulture Center

The Force of Rainwater Hitting bare soil

Hairy Bittercress weed exploding seeds

All About Farmer Fred:
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The Farmer Fred Rant! Blog
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Chapters

• 0:43 I Did Not Know That! Pt. 1
• 13:54 Dave Wilson Nursery
• 15:03 Beyond the Garden Basics Newsletter
• 17:33 I Did Not Know That! Pt. 2

Transcript

392 TRANSCRIPT FINAL I Did Not Know That, Live

Farmer Fred:

Today, Debbie Flower and myself travel to the Sacramento Rose Society meeting, where we share 10 essential gardening tips, covering seed germination, soil health, and pest management for you to have a thriving garden. A lot of these tips for garden success may have you saying, I did not know that!

It’s Episode 392 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast.

We are not podcasting from the Barking Dog Studios in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory today. But we are still brought to you by Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

I DID NOT KNOW THAT! Pt. 1

Debbie Arrington:

We are very honored here tonight to have two of our best-known garden experts in the greater Sacramento area. People that are both legends in their own time. Farmer Fred Hoffman, you may have known from many, many years on your radio dial, and now he's on your URL with his weekly podcast.

Farmer Fred:

Every Friday.

Debbie Arrington:

Every Friday. And along with Fred tonight is Debbie Flower, who is an institution from American River College. She ran the horticulture department there for many, many years and helped make ARC a great horticulture school for a lot of people. And I have bought many beautiful plants from your plant sale. So without further ado, I am going to turn the mic over to them. Thank you.

Farmer Fred:

Thank you, Debbie Arrington, I appreciate that. Debbie Flower, of course, is America's favorite retired college horticultural professor.

Debbie Flower:

For him.

Farmer Fred:

With not only American River College, but Sierra College, Folsom Lake College.

Debbie Flower:

Eldorado Center.

Farmer Fred:

All sorts of places.

Debbie Flower:

The Skill Center.

Farmer Fred:

Yeah. She gets around.  And she has been on the podcast, a lot. I've been doing the podcast since March of 2020. She's been there the whole time, helping out. And I appreciate it. America appreciates her, too. The podcast is just taking off. There's so many gardeners around the world that are listening to the thing. It's crazy. It's something like 1.7 million downloads right now. It's in 90 different countries. I'm amazed at the cities in the United States that listen to it. You would think that the top 10 would be all California cities. But no, number four is Seattle. Number five is Chicago. Number six is New York.

And so we try to make it as universal as possible. The information, it's not as easy because as we all know, all gardening is local. But we give it our best effort. Thank you for listening to the podcast, by the way. It's available wherever you get your podcast or at GardenBasics.net. Okay, I'm done with the commercials.

Debbie Flower:

Let me say that I so appreciated what he did for the horticulture community, both with the radio show and with the podcast that I made myself available as much as I could. When I was working full-time, including weekends, nights, I would drag myself over to the radio station when he asked me to because I so appreciate that information getting out, that quality gardening information.

Debbie Flower:

And then he went to the podcast and I said, whatever I can do to help, I'll be there. And so I totally appreciate what you do, Fred.

Farmer Fred:

One thing that I respond to when she mentions a lot of things to me as we're recording, I will say, “I did not know that!” because it's amazing how much knowledge she has about gardening. And we have thrown out a lot of great information over the years. And this little talk here is sort of a distillation of some very interesting garden topics, garden tricks, if you will, about how you can have a more successful garden. And everybody has a favorite. One of my favorites involves peppers. Anybody here grow peppers from seed? Then you know how long it takes to germinate them? Weeks. Weeks. I mean, if you use heat, it helps. Debbie here gave us a little trick that can cut that time in half, down to a week and a half.

Debbie Flower:

In teaching college, you work in a semester. You know, you got to figure out what you're going to do, and you want the students to be successful. So knowing that peppers took a long time to germinate from seed, I did some Googling,  not a reliable source, but I'm always willing to try. And what worked was soaking the pepper seeds in hydrogen peroxide for 10 minutes. Yeah, shortens their germination time, and you get a much more even germination of the seeds. Hydrogen peroxide is H2O2. So it's water with an extra oxygen in it. And I don't know, I don't know the science of it. I don't really care. I like science. I like to know why we do things. The fact that it works was great, and it gave the students success.

Farmer Fred:

My overlords at the University of California would be shaking their heads at this point, going, you need scientific research. 

Debbie Flower:

 Right. That's what they want.

Farmer Fred:

But if it works, it works.

Debbie Flower:

 Yeah.

Farmer Fred:

And for whatever reason, it works. Yeah. So add that to your list of tricks for germinating pepper seeds. Soak those seeds first for 10 minutes in hydrogen peroxide. It doesn't take much.

Debbie Flower:

Hydrogen peroxide doesn't taste like much either, and it doesn't affect the flavor or the color or the plant in any way. It just helps those seeds, that baby plant that's inside that seed to get its root out and get started.

Farmer Fred:

Not only does she come up with her own little tricks and tips, she gets a lot of tips from her students. And one of them was very clever, especially if you deal with small seeds. I forget what the seeds were in question.

Debbie Flower:

I don't know, but they would apply to pepper seeds. 

Farmer Fred:

Well, peppers are kind of big, but you talk about carrot seeds.

Debbie Flower:

Well, yeah, little tiny, tiny ones.

Farmer Fred:

How do you separate those carrot seeds so you're not planting a clump of them at once?

Debbie Flower:

Yeah, this wasn't my idea, but he takes a chopstick, dips it in water, and then dips it in the seeds gently. And the seed attaches to the water, and then you plant it. Knock it off, and then do it again. Pretty simple. There you go. Yeah. When the students got their seeds, they would open them and say, “I got the little ones”. So it was a positive thing for them.

Farmer Fred:

 How many of you have been planting lately your tomatoes and peppers? Usually the process might be, all right, I've got the tomato plant here. I'll dig a hole, plop in the tomato plant. I will put the dirt back around it and then water it. Debbie says, don't do that.

Debbie Flower:

 Well, it's particularly important if you're planting into containers because container media can be hydrophobic, meaning it doesn't easily absorb water. But wetting the media you're going to put your plant into, and also if the plant is in a container, wetting that so that it's wet into wet. We worked a lot with containers at school. We had some outdoor planting areas too, but if you don't wet that container media, it may never get wet. You'll think it's wet, you'll water it, and the water will go down and around and out the bottom. So I did it, I watered it, it came out the bottom. Well, it never got into the media. So you have to sort of work it with your hands, get it wet, then put it in the container and put your plant in with that.

Farmer Fred:

 I like your tip about pre-watering a bunch of potting mix at once by putting that soil into a bucket, filling the bucket with water, and then sticking your hands in and stirring it all up.

Debbie Flower:

 Yeah. I use kitty litter boxes,  the plastic ones, and put in the media. I can never just pour it out of a container, out of a bag. I have to mess with it. So I put in all my little components and mix them together and wet it. And then that's when you get your hands dirty.

Farmer Fred:

Oh, now you said components.

Debbie Flower:

 Yeah, I did say components.

Farmer Fred:

So what are you putting in your potting mix? 

Debbie Flower:

You know me, Fred. 

Farmer Fred:

I know, I know. I've carried big bags of pumice for you.

Debbie Flower:

 Yes, you did. The classic recipe for containers is peat, perlite, vermiculite, a little bit of lime to counteract the acidity of the peat moss. And you may or may not choose to put in other nutrients. And we did that forever. That's the Cornell mix. If you Google it, you'll get the Cornell mix. That's the classic. I learned that at Rutgers when I got my bachelor's degree. They talked about it at Davis when I got my master's degree. The Cornell mix. What it comes down to,

though, is an organic component, the peat moss being the organic component. You can use coir, you can use compost, but some sort of organic component. And then the perlite is a, perlite and vermiculite are both made from rocks. Perlite is the white stuff. And vermiculite is mica, like the gold-colored rocks that have been expanded so that there are layers in there. And because they're bigger, they both create airspace between the organic particles. Perlite, I really don't like. I have a little bit of it in my potting area for seed starting. But if you've ever opened a bag of perlite, tell us what happens.

 Dust everywhere. So I'd have the students put the water in, open it and then put the water in. And then the bag gets heavy and it gets wet and it doesn't wet everything. And we still have dust. So one semester we tried pumice, which is volcanic rock. Maybe a little more environmentally conscious because you don't have to heat it.

 Perlite is mined and then crushed and then heated to make it pop bigger.

 And so is mica. So is vermiculite. But pumice is naturally heated by the volcanic process. However, it has to be shipped, obviously. And it's heavy. It's much heavier. It worked great to improve the drainage in that container soil. It took the place of the perlite, and it did not have that dustiness to it. But it held a little bit more water And it made the pots heavy. And that's where the students complained because it held water and it gave it up to the plants very well. It created air spaces in the media, which is good for the roots. The vermiculite crushes over time. And so it goes from being a puffed up rock that holds water, but also creates open spaces around it for water and air to travel and roots to travel. But over time, it crushes. And so I use the bagged media. Depends what I'm growing. If I'm starting from seed, I don't want any forest products in it. Otherwise, forest products are okay. So take some organic matter and I'll mix it with the pumice. Sometimes I put in vermiculite, sometimes I don't.

Farmer Fred:

Going back to vermiculite.  You have gotten me into the habit, now, whenever I'm planting seeds that have to be planted very shallow. Yeah, they need light, but you still need to cover them with something in order to keep them from blowing away.

Debbie Flower:

You're right.

Farmer Fred:

And vermiculite solves that problem. Because as you pointed out, it allows light. It concentrates light, so it gets the light it wants while keeping the seeds in place.

Debbie Flower:

Right. So that puffed up, I think of it as an accordion mica, shiny mica, holds water within itself, but it's shiny, so it reflects light onto the seed. If a seed is to be planted on the surface or just barely covered, it's probably because it needs light. They may tell you that, they may not tell you that, but I'll do it in the garden if I've started even big stuff from seed, just so I know where I put the seed. So I don't have to write all those tags and I'll just put one tag and then I'll put little piles of vermiculite wherever the seed was. I'm knowing that it's not going to bury the seed too deeply. And if the seed needs light, it's going to allow that into the seed.

Farmer Fred:

Yeah, use it as a seed marker. It works. I think a lot of us know that after a rainstorm, you shouldn't be going out onto your garden and walking on the soil because it compacts the soil. It removes air pockets from the soil.

 But Debbie once pointed out, rain does the same thing, especially a torrential rainstorm. It, too, can compact the soil. So how do you get around that?

Debbie Flower:

 Have you ever seen the picture of the water droplet hitting the soil and all the particles coming up? Water is very powerful stuff. It can dig holes in soil. It's used for that sometimes. But you don't want it to compact your soil. So you need to cover your soil. And the ideal thing is an organic mulch.  I flagged down arborists. You can call their office too and make an appointment and they'll drop off a load of chipped shredded tree parts. It's huge, but it’s a load of mulch of their chipped trees. That's the best thing for a woody plant garden. Roses would be in that category. There are some big chunks, but the way they stack, they don't compact on themselves. There's been lots of research done about whether they carry disease. So the arborist might say, oh, you don't want this. It's got blah, blah, blah disease. There's been lots of research that the disease does not transmit when  the plant is chipped and then laid out. It's because you've changed the environment. Disease is about the pathogen, the environment, and the host. You have to have all three. The pathogen might be there. The host might be there. But the environment has just changed because it's no longer a standing tree.

Farmer Fred:

The same is true of insect eggs as well, that if they're taking a tree down and maybe the tree had termites, for example, the chipping and shredding process will destroy the eggs, too. And by mixing all the different sizes, what goes into a chip or shredder, comes out, it's all different sizes. It's perfect because the smaller parts break down first and feeds the soil and the other parts follow. It's a nice, slow feed for your garden. It is.

Debbie Flower:

 Yeah.

DAVE WILSON NURSERY

Farmer Fred:

 You want to start the backyard fruit and nut orchard of your dreams but maybe you don't know where to begin or maybe you're currently growing fruit and nut trees and you've got a million questions such as what are the tastiest fruits to grow where can i go to buy some of these delectable fruit and nut trees you've been reading about? And then how do you care for all of these trees, including planting, pruning, and harvesting? I've got one online stop in mind for you where all these questions you might have will get answered. It's DaveWilson.com. That's Dave Wilson Nursery, the nation's largest wholesaler of fruit and nut trees for the backyard garden. They have planting tips, taste test results, and links to nurseries in your area that carry Dave Wilson fruit trees. Click on the Home Garden tab at DaveWilson.com for all of these links, including a link to their years of informative videos about growing fruit and net trees that they've posted on the Dave Wilson Nursery YouTube channel. Start the backyard orchard of your dreams at DaveWilson.com.

BEYOND THE GARDEN BASICS NEWSLETTER

Farmer Fred:

Chances are, if you have raised garden beds and you are using drip irrigation, you’re not watering long enough, and you’re not getting even coverage throughout your raised beds. In Friday’s Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, we share some secrets for improving your watering with drip irrigation on raised garden beds. The Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter comes out every Friday, and is available for both free and paid subscribers.

Paid Subscribers have added perks. We have a new Monday publication for paid subscribers, that concentrates on streamlining current garden tasks for a more successful harvest of food and flowers.

Another benefit of being a paid subscriber to Beyond the Garden Basics: paid subscribers also have complete access to the previous posts of the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, of which there are now 200 editions. 

For example, how can you tell the good bugs from the bad bugs? We had the pictures and the info of the garden good guys back in late April and Early May of 2024 in a two part series, called Meet the beneficials.

Want to know which roses make the best cut flowers for indoor displays? We had that in the May 19, 2023 edition of the Beyond the Garden Basics Newsletter.

RIght now, you just might be doing battle with the aphids that are enjoying all the new growth on your just-planted garden. We had aphid control tips back in the Sept. 15, 2021 edition.

Again, only paid subscribers have access to the extensive catalog of past editions of the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter. 

By the way, your paid subscription to the newsletter supports not only the ongoing efforts to produce the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, but also helps keep the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast freely available each week, wherever you get your podcasts.

Find out more information about the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter in several places, including today’s show notes, at our home page, Garden Basics dot net, at Farmer Fred dot com, or… at Substack. 

And thank you for your support and encouragement to keep the good gardening conversation going.

Farmer Fred:

Let’s get back to our conversation with Debbie Flower, recorded live at a recent meeting of the Sacramento Rose Society, discussing tips for garden success.

I DID NOT KNOW THAT! Pt. 2

Farmer Fred:

Reaction wood, which to me sounds like a slightly dirty phrase, but actually reaction wood, if you are growing plants from seedlings, is something you want those seedlings to develop. And that's why in your arsenal of growing plants from seeds, Debbie says, hey, get a fan.

Debbie Flower:

 Yeah, reaction wood is maybe a little bit of a misnomer. It does exist, but reaction tissue is maybe a better way of saying it because at the time you're growing a seedling, you don't have wood. You just have soft tissue. You go to the gym, why do you go to the gym? To beef up your muscles. Plants don't have muscles, but they have this reaction tissue that forms in response to a stimulant. And the stimulant needs to be movement. The first experiment that was done that I was told about at Davis was grad students, and they would go out to the greenhouse where the seedlings were and shake the table for 10 minutes. So the seedlings are going like this, you know? Exactly. So that's what you do. Where I start my seeds, I have a fan. It's 10 minutes a day. So I have an oscillating fan on a timer, and it goes back and forth. I leave it on for a half hour, hoping everybody gets their little 10 minutes. And that will strengthen the stem. They should be shorter and the stems fatter. The plant itself shorter and the stems chubbier. And you've developed a nice, strong stem, which will stand up better. You know, it goes from wherever you started it, where it's coddled and with temperature and water and all that stuff. And then you move it to outdoors where the temperature and the water and the light and the wind are all irregular. it can stand up to that much better if you start it with a fan.

Farmer Fred:

Of course, this time of year, you can start a lot of seeds outdoors in containers. I just started some chard seeds, for example, so that we have greens for the summertime, and Swiss chard does fine. Plant it on the north side of the house for the summertime, you'll have greens year round. I went to the nursery the other day to see if they had any chard there and they just looked at me like I was weird and said, no, we got rid of that long time ago. Okay, buddy, thanks. Went to the seed rack. Got some “Bright Lights” Swiss chard seed. It'll be up and transplantable in a month or so. It's the summer greens. Yes. Yeah. And since they're going to be growing outside in containers because the overnight temperatures are in the 50s. And they're in a protected area, they get all the natural movement they need.  

Debbie Flower:

 Yes. When you're starting indoors in a greenhouse or in my guest room in my last house, don't visit me during seed starting season. Because the fan is on the bed and the light is hanging from the ceiling. It would be very inconvenient.

Farmer Fred:

I think you had sort of the same deal with a waterbed.

Debbie Flower:

 I did have a waterbed, but that's a different story.

Farmer Fred:

 Oh, that's a different story. Okay. Oh, that was a heater. That was for germinating your seeds.

Debbie Flower:

Oh, we got rid of the waterbed. You know, you put heat, you couldn't get... You had the heating thing. Anybody ever had a waterbed? Yeah, the heating thing. You're not that old. the heating pad under the bag of water to warm it up. And I kept that and I use it as a seed starting mat. It's made so it can get wet. It's around the right temperature. I've since purchased regular seed starting mats also, but that works too, if you happen to have one hanging around.

Farmer Fred:

How many of you get out in the garden every day? Well, of course you do. We're at a garden club!  I mean, of course you would. That is probably, according to Debbie, one of the best things you can do.

Debbie Flower:

You got to see what's going on. Everything starts in one place. Insect infestation, the fungal infestation, the damage to the branch, it all starts in one place. If you catch it at that one place, it doesn't become a big problem. If you have a hedge of all the same species and one plant starts to look poorly and you catch that, and maybe it's just that plant, maybe it's got the root system is circling, girdling, it's killing it, but maybe it's not. Maybe it's got a disease or an insect. And if you catch it there, you're not going to lose your whole hedge. So walk around. And while you're walking, especially this time of year, with your favorite beverage, you use your other hand to pull the weeds because you want to get them before they set seed. BISS, “Before It Sets Seed”, because that's how you prevent the weeds from spreading from place to place. If you wait months and then go out, oh, they're all in seed, and then the seeds are blowing around, and then you've got a bigger weed problem.

Farmer Fred:

 Unless you have hairy bittercress, then you might as well just move. It's also known as pop seed. And once hairy bittercress sets its little flower, it's a dainty little flower, and you go to pull it out, it's a little explosion that takes place. You can find hairy bittercress on YouTube and watch the seeds explode and they travel for tens of feet.

Debbie Flower:

 Well, you weren't there soon enough because you should have gotten it before it sets seed.

Farmer Fred:

 But it's very insignificant before it sets a flower.

Debbie Flower:

 It's a very small plant, and I learned it as little bittercress, common names, you know. And it likes moist, shady places. So look there for it.

Farmer Fred:

 BISS, B-I-S-S, before it sets seeds. Yes. If you ever want to make Debbie mad, here's what you do. You plant,  and then the small container you have for the original plant, just, you know, put it over on a table. And then when you're done with your tools, go put them away.

Debbie Flower:

I thought that's what you were going to say.

Farmer Fred:

 And, oh, look out, Debbie will remind you that you didn't clean that.

Debbie Flower:

 Right. It's easiest to clean a container after you, right when you take the plant out of it, things are moist. The soil is loose. clean it. And the reason for that, for cleaning it, is to reuse it. If you're going to reuse it, you want to get rid of all the media that's in the container because soil-borne diseases are carried in media. So you don't want to, especially with seeds, damping off is a seedling disease. It's only a seedling disease. But if it's in the media and you haven't washed it out of the container, you're going to lose the entire container of seedlings.

Farmer Fred:

And clean your tools. Don't forget to clean your tools.

Debbie Flower:

Yeah, and my husband gets in the doghouse a lot for not cleaning the tools. I'll go in the garage and say, who did that?

Farmer Fred:

 Another thing you brought up, and it was one of these “I did not know that” moments, was when you were talking about storing tools in the garage. If the garage has a concrete floor...

Debbie Flower:

 Put them in upside down.

Farmer Fred:

Put them handle down first. Don't let the metal part rest on that floor.

Debbie Flower:

Yeah, concrete floors. Water can seep up through concrete and make contact with your metal tools and cause them to rust.

Farmer Fred:

 Now, is that an East Coast thing?

Debbie Flower:

Well, I'm sure it's more of a problem in the East Coast. Talk about getting around. I've lived in New York, New Jersey, Puerto Rico, Arizona, Portland, Oregon, Reno, Nevada, and here, and gardened in all those places. And the rules change everywhere. So, it's definitely a bigger problem in a more moist climate like the East Coast.

Farmer Fred:

 Okay. But it's still, it's not a bad practice to get into is putting the handle on the ground.

 Not the metal part. Yeah. That way you don't run into it either.

Debbie Flower:

 Right. Value your toes.

Farmer Fred:

Of course, it might fall on your head.

Debbie Flower:

 Right. Your head could bash into it.

Farmer Fred:

Oh, well, that's life. How many of you have ever put gravel or styrofoam or other inert ingredients in the bottom of a pot, a container pot that has drainage, has drain holes, but you figure, I want to save some money on potting soil. I only need to fill it three quarters of potting soil and I'll just put some gravel at the bottom. I can save some money and the gravel will anchor the container and I'll live happily ever after. Actually, you just created a freeway jam up.

Debbie Flower:

 It is a legitimate thing to do in really big containers. I'm thinking of the interiorscapers I know who do those giant containers that are almost as big as you are, and they're growing annuals or even just shrubs in the top. Two feet would be plenty of media, and they have another four feet below, and they do try to fill that with something inert. But our containers at home, okay, and it's on the Internet all over the place, that it improves drainage. It does not improve drainage. The way water moves in soil is it travels on the surface of the media.

Debbie Flower:

 Water is attracted to water. It's H2O. So there's an oxygen, an oxygen, and a hydrogen. Hydrogen is positive. Oxygen is negative. Along comes another water, and they hook up by the positive and negative charges. And so you end up with a chain of water. So water follows water. You know, you drop it on a clean table, it just makes a bubble, right? because it's attached to water which is attached to water. And then it attaches to the media particles, which also have a charge. And so it doesn't just drop through the air in the container soil. It travels along the edge of the particles. So you have your container soil, which is a tighter mix than the ping pong balls or rocks you put in the bottom of the container. And the water travels all along the edges of the media. And it comes to this place where there isn't as much surface area. It comes to a place where the surface area is less. The ping pong balls or the stones have less surface area per square foot. And so the water can't all keep going. So it has to stop. And it builds up in the media above, and you create a saturation. Saturation means there's no oxygen in that soil. And you can rot the plant.

So get the right size container. You don't need to put anything in the bottom of it. You don't need to put a coffee filter. You don't need to put a screen. If you're using wet media for the container, yes, a tiny bit will drop through. But that's all. And then you just plant right into that container. So get the right depth and use it all.

Farmer Fred:

 The other thing to do when planting in a container is maybe raise that container off the ground a little bit. When I prune my fruit trees, I like to stick some half-inch diameter or one-inch diameter, eight, ten-inch long fruit tree prunings underneath my pots to help keep the air flowing and keep the roots from falling in love with the ground below the pot.

Debbie Flower:

 Growing out the hole and into the ground. Right. Yeah, that is a natural place. The holes, the drain holes, do the same thing as the rocks or the ping pong balls in the bottom of your container. It does slow down the loss of the water because there's nothing there for it to attach to until it,  finds the edge of the hole and goes down. It's all a chemical thing, all about ions and pluses and minuses and stuff like that, charges. I have a whole collection of outdoor plants and containers, which are all going to end up in the ground someday, right? Sure. Yeah. So I put them, preferably on rollers, so that I can move them around and sweep under them and that sort of thing. But it gets them up off the ground. It prevents them from rooting into the ground if that's where they are.

Farmer Fred:

There was a time 20, 30 years ago when HGTV actually did a lot of G and not as much H as they do now. And I was on one of those garden shows and I was demonstrating how to plant a citrus tree in a barrel. And I told the production crew... Get me a dolly, get me some rollers that I can put under the barrel so I can demonstrate how easily it is to move the plant to protect the citrus tree in case of a frost, you can move it closer to the house. Well, they bought some small rollers and I  put the barrel on it. Everything's fine, so far. Then I put the soil in the barrel and then the citrus tree and then went to move the whole thing and it just collapsed. The rollers just collapsed. So if you're going to use a half barrel and you want to be able to roll it around, get yourself some furniture dollies to move it around with. 

You know, it's fun when you go to start a garden and you're outside, you go, yeah, I'm going to put tomatoes over here and the flowers over here. Wouldn't it make more sense if you maybe step back into the house to do that?

Debbie Flower:

 I like to landscape from, I'm not a designer. That's something I don't, I think that's a gene and I don't have that gene, but I know what I want to look at when I look out the window. And so I design my garden from the inside to look out the window. I want to see my vegetable garden from at least one window in the house. When I had the landscaper come to do, you know, do the hardscape and stuff, and he said, oh, you don't want it there. I said, yes, I do. I want to know what's going on. Yes, I do try to walk my yard every day, but you don't always get to everything. I want to know what's going on there. I want a pretty view out my kitchen window, a big window over my sink. There's a birdbath with a dripper and a tree for them to land in and then plants for the hummingbirds. And, you know, it creates a whole environment and I can sit there and do dishes and be really happy. So designing from the inside out, I should have not put as much patio outside my bedroom window because it faces southwest. Guess what I need? Shade. So I have a couple of livestock watering troughs as a result with plants in them, but designed from the inside out.

Farmer Fred:

By the way, if you use cattle watering troughs, as a lot of people are doing now for shrubs and blueberries and things like that, there's usually a side plug there. Go the extra step and drill some holes through the bottom of those things to get better drainage and then set it on some bricks to raise it off the ground and your blueberries will thank you. I know the robins are thanking me for the blueberries right now because I'm here and they're there.

Debbie Flower:

 I have bamboo in my troughs and I did not drill extra holes and I did not put them up on bricks. I just pulled that drain on the side. Now, this may be unique to bamboo. I had one trough of bamboo die, flower and die, which is what bamboo does. And so I had to empty it to start again. And all of the rhizomes were down, the stems were down in the bottom, at the bottom of the pot. That's where that water collects and that's where they like to go. So I have had success with bamboo in those pots just by pulling the side plug and using that for drainage. The negative thing that's happened is the solder has rusted. So now when the water leaks out, I get rust stains on my patio.

Farmer Fred:

 There's that, yeah.

Debbie Flower:

 It takes years, five years, eight years, something like that. And I just had to have a big drainage problem dealt with in my backyard and concrete was taken out and put back in. And then those guys actually picked up, I didn't think we could move them, picked up the troughs and moved them. It wasn't ugly underneath. It wasn't all green and slimy or anything. It was dry.

 But I do have these rust stains in another part of the yard.

Farmer Fred:

We've gone through 10 tips. I think that's pretty good. 

Debbie Flower:

All right. 

Farmer Fred:

Thank you so much for inviting us here. Thank you. 

Debbie Flower:

Thank you.