The Hidden Costs Workshop Is Heading Your Way

Every site absorbs costs that never show up in a budget. Coordinator overtime, screen failures, startup inefficiencies, technology burden — these aren't edge cases, they're everyday realities. And over time, they're what push good investigators out of research for good. Lauren Stockwell sits down with Mike Pierre, Project Manager at SCRS, to talk about the Hidden Costs Workshop, why it was created, and what sites, sponsors, and CROs actually walk away with after four hours in that room together. If you have ever struggled to justify a budget line or wondered why your numbers never seem to add up, this one is for you. 

Transcript

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Lauren Stockwell 0:00

Welcome to SCRS talks provided by the Society for Clinical Research Sites. Thank you for joining us as we explore the latest insights, trends, and innovations shaping clinical research today. I'm Lauren Stockwell, the Education and Engagement Manager with SCRS, and I'm joined today by my incredible colleague, Mike Pierre. Project manager at SCRS. I'm so excited to talk about the hidden cost workshop and all the value that it brings to our industry, which we will next be hosting at the upcoming West Innovation Summit in Scottsdale, Arizona, this June. Welcome, Mike. I'd love to know and dive right into why did you feel that there was a need to create an entire course around this topic?

Michael Pierre 0:41

Hi, Lauren. Well, this began so long ago that I don't even want to think about it. it's always been a topic of discussion. But way back, it kind of felt like investigators would not share their budgeting information because they were competing with each other. And so many years ago at an A CRP conference, Christine Pierre and Ken Getz gave a 60 minute presentation called the Hidden Cost of Conducting Clinical Research at the site. And this is back when people would give you their business card, and they got a big stack after that presentation. So they gave it a few more. conferences. And then Christine got busy, had limitations in her schedule, and so she sent me out to do it by myself. And the first time I did it was in St. Louis, Missouri. And interest didn't taper off. And Christine saw an opportunity to host a workshop. So she and I traveled around and there are still people today that attend our site solutions summit that I met during those early years. And once we started up the summits, we discontinued the in-person course. I did some yearly online, and I think it was like six modules of one hour a piece. And then a few years ago, I pitched the idea to SCRS to go back kind of on the road in person, and people still like it. And now we're giving the workshop prior to our summits.

Lauren Stockwell 1:56

Yeah, it's such a cool opportunity to again, live in that legacy that was really built upon what Ken and Christine really stood on that stage and provided. And, you know, we're so fortunate to have their vision and have their, their understanding of what is needed in this industry as we continue to go forward and develop content that is meaningful to our sites and is helpful for our sites. So let's. Take three steps back, if that's okay. And start really simple. What, what do you mean by hidden costs in clinical research? What does that actually mean?

Michael Pierre 2:27

After we gave the presentation a few times, we kind of started saying, these aren't really hidden. They're just, they're just right there, but you don't know how to express and capture and find them. So it's the operational, financial, and the human costs that sites absorb, but they rarely show up clearly, or at all in budgets and contracts. You know, things like coordinator overtime Startup inefficiencies, screen failures that aren't properly reimbursed, delayed payments, protocol amendments, technology burden. And these aren't just fringe things. They're everyday realities for sites. And over time, they're what make trials unsustainable. And sites, if they're fortunate, figure this out before they just decide to kind of just leave the game altogether. And one of my main goals is to keep good investigators in research and. Anecdotally, you may hear higher or lower, but it appears that the number of investigators that are one and done is about 50%, and that's, that's just not good for drug development. you also have to consider that a typical site is one or two investigators and a few coordinators. They're not lawyers, they're not finance people or business people. They're healthcare people, and they just need this new dimension of training.

Lauren Stockwell 3:39

A hundred percent. And you know, a big, massive push within this industry is how can we bring new investigators in and really genuinely support them from the ground up? We so often see, and SCRS talks about this a lot is that these physicians are not the business-minded people all the time. Right. They're very science driven. They're very science focused. And so it, that one and done statistic continues to fluctuate, but it remaining around that 50% that's. That's dangerous for our industry in the future of the industry. So we need to lessen that. So you talked a little bit about a few roles and how not every site has a budget person or a contracts person or a legal person who is this course designed for? Like if I'm listening on the line and I'm from x, y, Z position, right? How do I relate to that? who should be in that room?

Michael Pierre 4:22

it's four research sites, and when we first started many years ago, that's who came. owners, directors, coordinators, if they have a dedicated contract or a budget person, those kind of people would attend. But as we've expanded over the years, it's just as valuable for sponsors and CROs who wanna understand why sites push back on budgets or. Call and say, this budget isn't high enough, and they're, they're making mistakes before they even get started. so we consistently see the most powerful conversations happen when we have all the parties in the room, and also vendors attend as well because they want to hear, they all want to hear the same realities and what it's like to work towards better solutions.

Lauren Stockwell 5:02

Absolutely. And I think that's such a beautiful representation of SCRS as a whole, right? We are not just for one singular part of this puzzle. We need to fit every piece of this puzzle together in order to make actual change. And so I appreciate that you've created a course to do so.

Michael Pierre 5:19

Yeah. And it doesn't do any good for just having all sites in the room 'cause they're just gonna complain and not get anything done. So that's why we encourage everyone to attend.

Lauren Stockwell 5:28

All right. Mike, I gotta ask you a little bit about the secret sauce for those listening on the line. What is one hitting cost that people underestimate the most?

Michael Pierre 5:37

Yeah, all of them, screen failures, startups, the technology that's intended to make things easier, take your pick. We try to cover as many areas as we can during a workshop, and we will tailor the presentation based on who I can get to be on the panel. So, if there's a C-T-M-S provider. I'll include the hidden costs of running a C-T-M-S. If there's a recruiter I can get, we'll talk about recruitment. we didn't used to have sponsors and CROs on the panel, as we said earlier, but now we do because they provide such good conversation. it also forces the site's attending to listen to the constraints on the other side, because everyone wants to do well and no one on either side wants to have the study fail for any of the hidden costs.

Lauren Stockwell 6:20

Absolutely. And I think that's the best part of it is that we're coming into that room to understand each other and really be able to proceed forward in a meaningful way. You've delivered this course. In different regions, right? we just ran one recently at our European Site Solutions Summit out in Amsterdam. What feedback stands out most and maybe is consistent across the board?

Michael Pierre 6:41

it's kind of therapeutic. where sites hear from each other. That they're all going through the same things. So it's a little bit kind of like relief, like, oh, I thought this was just my site, or, I hear that all the time. I thought it was just me. I didn't realize others were dealing with the same thing. So. sites leave feeling validated. they're better equipped, they're more confident, and sites learn as much from each other as they do from the panel in many cases. I've included things that I've picked up in prior workshops and now they're just part of the curriculum now. And sponsors and CROs often tell us that they understand now why sites are pushing back and what they're going through. so that shared understanding changes the dynamics immediately.

Lauren Stockwell 7:22

Absolutely. And what would somebody walk away with after this course? if I attended the workshop and I dove deep and I gave it my all, and I was incredibly involved in the conversation, what would I walk away with?

Michael Pierre 7:36

Well, aside from the, the networking. And the connections to other people in the industry. You just get a framework. You get a clearer understanding of where the costs really sit, how to recognize risk early, how to justify your budget requests, how to spot warning signs and protocol design and contracting. But just as importantly, they leave with language, language that helps them communicate more effectively with sponsors, vendors, and other internal stakeholders.

Lauren Stockwell 8:04

That's huge because so often I have sites coming up to me and saying, we're struggling to justify X, Y, Z in our budget, right? Patient recruitment costs, community engagement costs, whatever that looks like, And so if we can equip our sites with language, with understanding, with mutual understanding, that is accepted by our sponsors and CRO partners, let's do it. Let's continue to have that discussion. If someone is on the fence about attending, right? If I am going to SCRS West, or if I'm going to any of the upcoming summits, and I'm like, what does this hidden cost?

Michael Pierre 8:36

Yeah.

Lauren Stockwell 8:37

what would you say to them?

Michael Pierre 8:38

if you're feeling stretched and frustrated or constantly explaining why things don't add up. Or you're a sponsor or CRO wondering why enrollment is slowing down or why sites are hesitating on things. the workshop gives you a perspective that you can't get from some dashboard or something. the hidden costs don't just affect the sites. They affect the entire research ecosystem. Now the good stuff is these workshops. Occurred before our smaller summits like Europe, west and Australia, New Zealand, they're four hours. They go from one to five. You don't have to set an alarm. You can arrive that morning, you're done by five. and they're reasonably priced so you can attend also, just the workshop only, let's say you're local to the area and you wanna send your coordinator off to sit with us for four hours and talk budgets and contracts. You also have that opportunity as well, so you don't have to attend, the full summit to attend the workshop. Now it's a different little bit different pricing structure. And then for the global summit in Orlando, we're going to do a six hour workshop prior to that one. That one will start at 10:00 AM

Lauren Stockwell 9:44

Awesome. Thank you so much, Mike. All right. Final thing. Where can I learn to get more involved? where do I go to learn about getting involved?

Michael Pierre 9:52

myscrs.org. Go down there, scroll down to summits, or you can just contact me, Michael.pierre@myscrs.org.

Lauren Stockwell 10:01

I love it. Beautiful. All right. Any final thoughts for us, Mike, before we close it out?

Michael Pierre 10:05

Yeah. if you don't account for your hidden costs in the budget. They don't go away. They'll just show up later. Delays, burnout, missed opportunities, and so the whole workshop is about making the invisible visible and fixing it together.

Lauren Stockwell 10:22

Thank you so much, Mike, and thank you for joining us once again. For everyone listening, please be sure to join us at the West Innovation Summit this upcoming June. And once again, visit site solutions summit.com to save your seat there or my scrs.org to learn more about hidden costs. Thank you, Mike.

Michael Pierre 10:41

Thanks, Lauren. Bye-bye.