How Baseball is Like a Divorce: You Need to Keep Your Eyes on the Ball

Just like baseball, divorce has curveballs, foul balls, and unexpected plays. We sit down with Founding Attorney, Lewis Landerholm, to discuss the parallels between baseball and divorce, centering on the importance of keeping your eyes on the ball throughout the divorce process. They explore how setting clear priorities and goals from the outset helps clients navigate the often lengthy and emotionally taxing divorce journey. The conversation covers common pitfalls such as emotional fatigue, the temptation to fight over assets like the family home, and the risks of losing focus during discovery and negotiation. Louis emphasizes the attorney's coaching role in helping clients stay grounded and make decisions aligned with their long-term best interests, rather than reacting emotionally in the moment.

If you would like to speak with one of our attorneys, please call our office at (503) 227-0200, or visit our website at https://www.pacificcascadelegal.com.

Disclaimer: Nothing in this communication is intended to provide legal advice nor does it constitute a client-attorney relationship, therefore you should not interpret the contents as such.

Transcript

Steve Altishin: Hi everyone. I am Steve Titian, director of Client Partnerships here, Pacific Cascade Legal, and I'm here with our founding attorney, Louis Lander home to talk about how baseball is like divorce. You need to keep your eyes on the ball. Louis, how you doing today?

Lewis Landerholm: Doing great. How are you Steve?

Steve Altishin: I'm doing great. We did a analogy before and I think it really works 'cause I think baseball, it sounds weird, and divorce have a lot in common and one of them is keeping your eyes on the ball. I say that and I think of Bill Buckner and the air, and it all went wrong. Just for one second. You take your eyes off the ball. So with that, let's talk a little bit about what does it even mean keeping your eyes on the ball in a divorce? Is that kind of like keeping focus?

Lewis Landerholm: I mean, I think it can mean a number of things, but I think especially from the divorce process, it's a much longer process than people anticipate. And so one of the things that I think is really important for parties in a divorce to really think through what are your goals at the beginning of divorce, what are you trying to accomplish, what are your most important things where, what are your must haves? Things that you can give up, things that you would like to have, but you're okay. You know, it's, we could also analogize it to buying a house, right? You've got your, your, you your have to haves, your would like to have, and then it would be nice, but I'm okay if I don't have them. Right? Same type of thing. So getting those priorities and getting those goals from the beginning beginning helps you as you're going through the divorce process, remember and remind yourself why you're doing certain things. If the kids are your number one focus, then as we're going along through the divorce, if, you know, if something comes up and it starts to stray from what your number one goal is, let's move back towards, you know, what, what the goal and the focus is. So that way, remember, this is why you're, you're doing this. Or if it's, I really want to be able to maintain the house afterwards. Sometimes in order to get what you want, you have to give up something else in order to get that, you know, we trade things all the time and so it's just a matter of what are the priorities, how do we go accomplish those priorities and, and start to work through that process so that, um, people really feel like they went into it knowing what they were, what they were shooting for, and were able to come out with as many of those things as possible.

Steve Altishin: Yeah. You, you mentioned the house and I think that's really, really an important thing to think about because I mean, I think I was reading that 75% of divorces in the United States when they get stuck is where someone wants the house. And it can be, even when there's other things out there, everyone thinks the house is the most important thing, it's the most valuable thing, but that's not necessarily true. And especially in the long run, I mean, pension plans, there are, there are, you know, retirement, you know, benefits that that can outweigh really the value of the house.

Lewis Landerholm: Yeah. And it, and it really depends on, you know, the party's financial situation because some people will, you know, value the home over anything else. And while homes can be valuable, they can also be, they also carry huge liabilities with them at times as well. And so if it's not financially viable to keep the home, sometimes it is best for parties to sell, turn it, turn the equity into cash and be able to move on so you don't leverage your future for ultimately just the house. Um, you know, the housing market, while it's more stable than other investments, you know, it has his, its cyclical nature and you have a, a mortgage tied to it depending on what your interest rates and all of these things. So there's more analysis than just, I want to keep the house at all costs because at some point the cost could be too high. Yeah. Um, so trying to keep an open mind also and be able to just understand this is really what's in my best interest. And getting some financial experts involved helps to, to do that. But ultimately if that's where, you know, you really decided like, I really want to keep the house or I really wanna keep something, then as we're going through the negotiating process, just reminding yourself, okay, this is why I'm doing it. Maybe I am willing to trade some retirement. Maybe I am willing to trade more spousal support to get the house. There's all these different decisions that come up to be able to get exact, uh, what you're looking for.

Steve Altishin: And, and I love you bring that up. The, there's sort of the net here and now, and then the future, like you said, because I remember talking to you once and you said, you know, we talked about people's goals with our clients, not just their goals for, you know, the end of the divorce, but their goals 25 years from now. It's, it's tough to balance what's gonna be your goal then, and what's your goal now, but you really have to kind of try to do it.

Lewis Landerholm: Yeah. And especially for the parties who, especially like stay at home moms or somebody who's been out of the workforce for a while, you know, there's a lot of risk in exiting a marriage where you have two incomes in most cases, um, or one that you relied on and really thinking through and making decisions is really important. So being able to, like you said, keep your eye on the ball, keep your eye on that goal and what your, what your ultimate uh, priorities are become really important as we move through the process.

Steve Altishin: Yeah. And like you said, making goals are really important, but as you, you were alluding to, you really do need to prioritize them because things are gonna come up. Yeah.

Lewis Landerholm: All the time.

Steve Altishin: All the time. One of the things I know can take your eye off the ball is the emotional side of the divorce, where you can go from being very, you know, I'm right here, I'm good, I'm on track, this is what I'm not gonna let myself, you know, lose. And then something happens and it's like, okay, we're gonna do this. So that's hard. Yeah.

Lewis Landerholm: And we see it a lot for the, you know, the, the last three things, right? Like we've, we've made an agreement on, you know, on a hundred things on 97% of all of the different issues, the last 3% or the last three issues become the most hit issues out of anything. Whether it's the flower pot or whether it's the, the personal property or whether it's the, you know, that that last particular hurdle to get over are the most emotional ones. 'cause like all the emotions get pointed directly to that last issue. And so to, to finally reach the finish line, it does take some work. And, but again, trying to re to remember why this is happening, the things that people did get, because everybody comes out of divorce feeling like that they gave more than they wanted to. That's the nature of negotiations most of the time or the nature of life is that nothing's ever gonna be a hundred percent. Um, and so trying to re remember like, okay, I got 97% of the things I wanted, um, or I really hoped for. Um, do I, do we really want to keep fighting for the last 3% because having the, having a more balanced and, you know, uh, respectful relationship after the divorce, there's value there too. Especially if you have kids. 'cause you're still gonna, you know, be around this person that you're divorcing.

Steve Altishin: That's one that, uh, that's incredibly good advice. <laugh>, it, it, it sometimes feels like I talk with people 'cause I, well also we will talk with 'em sometimes in the middle of the, of the trial and they're entering, you know, what I call divorce fatigue. And it's almost like, I just wanna get this over. I'll just do whatever. And that's something you've really gotta fight against, isn't it?

Lewis Landerholm: Yeah. And, and we talked to our clients about, you know, part of our job is to help them keep their eye on the ball so that they don't give something up. That really was one of their top goals because of the fatigue. And totally understandable because it is a long process does feel like you're getting beat up at times because just the way the process is, is, uh, is meant to be a long arduous process to help to force, um, you know, agreement and just from the timing of everything. Um, but it's, it's too, it's also such an important thing at the, when you come out of it that we wanna protect our client's interests and help them not just give up something that, that they really wanted just to get to the finish line. One thing if, if you give it up because you know the, it makes sense and, and you do want to get to the finish line. Okay, that makes sense. But if it's one of those top must have priorities, you know, our job is to help our clients really think through and is this really what they wanna do so that they don't come out of it because we don't get to go back. You know, an Oregon property division is non-modifiable, so once a decision's made and that judgment is signed, that's the answer. And we don't get to go back and get a, a second bite of the apple.

Steve Altishin: Yeah. It seems like another thing that a lot of people get divorced or getting, preparing for divorce don't understand is that it can be complex. There are things that need to get done and there's no way around a lot of them, for instance, you have to reveal all your assets. You have to reveal your income, you have to do all of these things that can sort of take a person away from that ulti thinking about that ultimate goal going, why do I have to do this? Which is why, again, I really love when you first talk to clients, you kind of go through that this is why it's important. It's not just do it because I say so.

Lewis Landerholm: Yes, the discovery process is, what he's referring to is in most cases the longest part of a case. It's the gathering of documents because we have to, you know, it's not enough to say to a judge, I want this to happen. We have to be able to prove to the judge that that's what exists so that the judge can say, this can happen. And so both parties have to, um, give us a lot of documentation for bank accounts, for credit cards, for all of these things. And it's not fun. It's not a fun process at all. It's a long part of the case, but it's a, it's the most necessary part of the case because if, if we don't, if we can't present it to the court, the court can't give it to us. And so we have to be able to have the, the backup and the level of proof to then go to a judge and get that order.

Steve Altishin: Yeah. The ease taking dry out the ball, losing kind of where you are in the case, it, it is pretty easy and it can happen. But there are some certain things I know that you talk about to people about, like, don't, don't do these kind of things if your, if your spouse, you know, starts ranting against you on social media or to your family and friends. I mean, getting caught up in that. There, there are ways aren't there that you can try to keep yourself firm and things just don't do these things.

Lewis Landerholm: Yes, there's some, there's definitely some of those rules. Like don't take the social media, um, don't withhold children. Those are some, those are some really good ones that judges get really mad about <laugh>. Those are, those are some, some key sort of don't do, don't try to transfer property out of your name into your family's name because guess what, we can find it. And judges don't like that. And so we want to get in front of a judge and be able to be the reasonable party to say, this is what I'm looking for and this is what happened in the divorce. If, if you're doing these things and, and making it more difficult for the other side, number one, a judge can rule against you on certain things, but also then order that you pay some of the attorney fees of the, of your, you know, soon to be X. So there's really specific reason why we don't want to do certain things and why we advise not to do them because either comes in form of, you know, a a judge, you know, they've gotta make tough calls and if one party's gonna be unreasonable and not work with the other party, that's an easy way to slant away from custody from that person. And then vice versa, if you're doing things with trying to hide money and trying to keep it from the other person and play games, then a judge will, uh, more easily award attorney fees, um, for the other party.

Steve Altishin: Yeah. And, and you know, like, like Bill Bucker, that one heir that you say, well I'm, I'm just not going to show my attorney this, that one heir can lose the game. I mean, so it, it really does make sense. And, and my kind of last analogy on, on baseball and and divorce is that baseball players work with their coach and are trained to keep their eye on the ball and they have a coach who helps 'em do that. And it sounds like in an attor in a divorce, the attorney kind of takes on that role and that's what you guys do. You, you use your experience and, and all of your knowledge to train them, to teach them how to not take their eye off the ball. And it really feels like that is a, you know, a big part of coming to attorneys who are willing to do that and do it well. Like you guys.

Lewis Landerholm: Yeah, I mean that's a, that's a big part of our role. It's, you know, it's the, you know, people think of attorneys as, you know, our job is to go into court and, and argue, but especially in a divorce, you know, we're likely only going go to court one time. That can be one or two days out of a year's worth of representation. And so, I mean, that's a less than 1%, you know, it's point what 0.3% of the time that we're actually in court the rest of the time we're coaching, we're working through the day-to-day issues with clients trying to help them work through divorce because it saves them money and, and gets them the, the best possible outcome. So yeah, I mean, uh, a lot of times coaching people through that is, is the name of the game and that's, uh, that's what we do.

Steve Altishin: Yep. And I know that you encourage your clients to reach out if they are confused, if they do have a question, if they do say, hold up, why am I doing this? Because they're not doing this every day. And so they don't know the best practices.

Lewis Landerholm: Right.

Steve Altishin: Well again, great information. I really do like the analogy of divorce and baseball being the, like, especially on keeping your eyes on the ball because that's what makes for a successful game and a successful divorce if there's such a thing.

Lewis Landerholm: Right, <laugh>.

Steve Altishin: Yeah. That, that's another one we can do is, you know, what is success? What is winning one day. Right. And so, but thank you for joining us today. It was again, it was really great.

Lewis Landerholm: Yeah, you're welcome.

Steve Altishin: Oh, thank you. And anyone else, again, thank you for coming. Thank you for watching our show. Anyone with further questions, please feel free to contact our firm. We can get you connected with an attorney who can help you. So until next time, stay safe, stay happy, and be well.