Shades & Layers
Shades and Layers is a podcast focused on black women entrepreneurs from across the globe. It is a platform for exploring issues and challenges around business ownership, representation and holistic discussions about the meaning of sustainability in an increasingly complex global context. Conversations are wide- ranging and serve not only as a Masterclass in Entrepreneurship but also provide wisdom and tools for Successful Living. It is a space for meaningful conversation, a place for black and other women of color to be fully human and openly share their quirks and vulnerabilities.
Guests include prominent figurers in the beauty, fashion and wellness industries both in the Northern Hemisphere and the Global South.
Dr. Theo Mothoa-Frendo of USO Skincare discusses her journey from being product junkie to creating an African science-based skincare range. Taryn Gill of The Perfect Hair is a brand development whizz who discusses supply chain and distribution of her haircare brands. Katonya Breux discusses melanin and sunscreen and how she addresses the needs of a range of skin tones with her Unsun Cosmetics products.
We discuss inclusion in the wellness industry with Helen Rose Skincare and Yoga and Nectarines Founder , Day Bibb. Abiola Akani emphasizes non-performance in yoga with her IYA Wellness brand and Anesu Mbizho shares her journey to yoga and the ecosystem she's created through her business The Nest Space.
Fashion is all about handmade, custom made and circular production with featured guests like fashion designer Maria McCloy of Maria McCloy Accessories; Founder and textile/homeware designer Nkuli Mlangeni Berg of The Ninevites as well as Candice Lawrence, founder of the lighting design company Modern Gesture. These are just a few the conversations on the podcast over the past three years.
Shades & Layers
Embracing Fear and Following Your Dreams with Bisila Bokoko
Bisila Bokoko is an international business woman who got her start in the corporate world in Spain and then eventually in the USA. Today she shares her journey from corporate executive to international entrepreneur, wine brand founder, and creator of the Bisila Bokoko African Literacy Project.
Born to African parents from Equatorial Guinea in Spain, she jokingly calls herself a Decaf African and had a tough time navigating her African identity within a European culture. She now sees herself as a a bridge between the two cultures. Over the years she has also learned to understand and embrace her own fears, and learned how to transform obstacles into opportunities.
Today, we get into the scope of her work as an entrepreneur, author and philanthropist. We discuss her latest book: The Fear and I: An Unexpected Story, how she founder her wine brand Bisila's Wines and her philanthropy work with the Bisila Bokoko African Literacy Project.
For the candid moments of our chat, she talks about mindset and how she rejects the phrases "I don't have time" and "I don't have money" to advance her aims. She also recommends surrounding yourself with cheerleaders, mentors, and accountability partners.
Find Bisila Bokoko on Instagram, LinkedIn, or through her website.
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I don't follow orders, I follow my dreams. I didn't hear from someone, but that I just applied to my life and it became like really the way I do my life.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Shades and Layers, the podcast that celebrates Black and women of color entrepreneurs across beauty, fashion and beyond. I'm your host, udwanos Kosanarichi. Join me for stories of creativity, resilience and the layers of building something that lasts. Hello and welcome to today's episode of Shades and Layers. My guest today is Bicela Bococo, an international businesswoman with roots in Spain and Equatorial Guinea. She's also an author and philanthropist who got her start in the corporate world both in Spain and the United States. Today we discuss her latest book, the Fear and I a story of unexpected transformation. We also discuss her very first entrepreneurial venture into the wine business. She has a brand called Bisila Wines. We also get into her philanthropic work through her Bisila Bokoko African Literacy Project. Her story is a masterclass in self-awareness, ambition, fearlessness and personal branding. Please enjoy the conversation. Who is Bisila and what is it about Spain that shaped your outlook on the world and business?
Speaker 1:Well, I have to start by the beginning, and it's the roots. Right, and just a puntualization my roots go back to Equatorial Guinea, in Africa, my great-grandmother, I think. She shaped my future because she ran away from a marriage of domestic violence and she made a decision to study, and at that time Equatorial Guinea was a colony from Spain, so she was able to just go to school there.
Speaker 2:Right, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:And when she came back, she decided to create a school for girls that she called Huayso y Pola. Huayso y Pola in the language of my ancestors, bubi means women raise up. Okay, and this great-grandmother I mean. When she came back and created this school, she also decided to buy a little apartment in Spain. That's the reason why my roots go back to Spain.
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 1:Because when my father, who is a grandson, went to college, stayed in that house and then he met my mother and I was born there. That's how I end up in Spain and that's the reason why this kind of multiculturality started over there. And I think being raised between two walls that did not always understand each other also helped me to save my future, because it was really this thing that in my house I was African and then I was European outside of the house, of course, or I tried to be so I had a lot of identity crisis, because you want to belong, and when you are young, you want to belong Absolutely. I think that I decided that I don't have to be one thing or another. I could become a bridge and, at the end of the day, this is what it is. And my entrepreneurial journey started not with a business plan. You know what I'm here to do? Yeah, what is? What is? Why should do this? And then I decided to launch Visillas as wines, because I thought why we are not in this kind of business? Why?
Speaker 2:africans, we are not in this kind of business, absolutely yeah, I want that.
Speaker 1:we have the best wines and we enjoy also life and we are exposed to a specific lifestyle, and that was the reason why I decided to start my journey there. And then I found BBLP to create libraries in Africa, and this is who I am. I mean, I think that all the businesses that I did speak about who I am and also where I'm from.
Speaker 2:Okay, so this deeper meaning you attach to your work, which is basically being a bridge and creating belonging, do you think it was a push or it was something that happened naturally for you Both?
Speaker 1:I think the push came because I've been raised to be the best of my standards, being the only Black kid in the school and coming home sometimes crying because some kids, you know, insult me, or they just pointed out that the fact that I was black and I didn't understand all this make my parents say you know what, you need to understand who you are, your story. So they were very intentional in the way I am and stop crying. You're just going to do the best you can and go and get it. I had no choice, you know, because my father told me I'd rather you hate me than you come out, not right? Oh, so this was clear and success was not negotiable. You must be successful.
Speaker 1:If we came all the way from Africa to be here in Europe, you, as a first generation, you have no choice to make it better. So, yeah, I was pushed, but at the same time, along the way, you find the opportunities because the way you think it shapes your reality. At the beginning, many doors were closed for me. Yeah, because I'm talking about 25 years ago, where diversity didn't even exist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Nobody knew what was that. So back then, anytime I wanted to apply for a position, it was like there is no place for you, so I also have to build that doors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and open them yourself.
Speaker 1:Open them myself. Sometimes I have to sit myself on those tables because I was never being invited. So I think it's both. I mean, you also could be pushed, and it depends on many factors. But also you need to create the opportunities if they don't come. And this starts in the mind, because if you are thinking from the victim mentality oh no, because I'm a woman, oh no because I'm black, oh no because the background, economic background that I come from, I have no choices, I didn't go to these schools Then you're telling a narrative that is not going to help you. So everything depends on the narrative that is inside of you. Your inner narrative is more important than the narrative that is out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tell me about some of the people, apart from your parents, who encouraged you along this path, because we all have these angels, you know, who help us along on our way.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think I had several, and the first one that came to my mind it was one of my first boss. I remember that it was the first time that this organization is going to have a woman being the general manager of the organization. And I read this in the newspaper and I mean, for me, we're talking about really long time ago to have a woman just being in charge. And the national organization was like what is this? So I read it that she's coming to lead us, and I met her in the elevator the first day that she came and I just asked her how was your day? And she asked me it was good, who are you? So I encouraged a conversation and in this conversation I said you know I'm an intern and I know that there is a blunt distance between your office and my office, but since I have you here, I want you to tell me what have you done to be a director, because one day I would like to be one In this conversation that we have.
Speaker 1:I was 23 years old and she took the time to tell me how she did. I also told her I have a dream. My dream is to go to the office that we have in New York. At that moment I was in the office in Spain, in Valencia. Right, she said okay, tell your boss to come to talk to me and we'll see. So I think that the mentorship is important, because she was the passport for the city of my life and also for the job that I wanted to do. Sure, another person that comes to my mind is what I call the ladder woman, the woman who put the ladder for you what I call the lather woman, the woman who put the lather for you to go up.
Speaker 1:And this was a peers of me. I mean, we both came to New York at the same time like interns, but we used to have a very good relationship. We admire each other, sure, and we had a conversation and when she was leaving the Spain-US Chamber of Commerce in a lunch you know kind of bye-bye lunch she said you know what you could be the person who replaced me, and I said no, impossible, because I know how you work and I don't think, but when someone believe in you more than you believe in yourself, that person also became essential because thanks to her, I became the executive director of the Spain US Chamber of Commerce, just for a conversation. So I think that it is important, the networking, it is important to really go and say hello to the people who could really inspire you or could have the keys for the door that you want to open.
Speaker 1:I think that so many times we just don't speak, we don't voice out what we want. So how we expect that people have like a ball where they see the future and they know that you want that position?
Speaker 2:Sure, yes, you have to put yourself forward. In other words, yeah. Right and you had the successful corporate career and then you decided to go into entrepreneurship. How did that leap happen?
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting, I did not decide it because, as a daughter of immigrants, what an immigrant is looking for it's looking for safety, for financial security. So for me it was not natural to become an entrepreneur, to become a businesswoman, it was not natural. The first entrepreneurial adventure I had it was with Zilla Wines. But I did it while I have my position secure, because I was not ready to jump into the space of being an entrepreneur just yet. Yeah, because I needed that mattress, you know where. Oh, if something happens, I still have my salary, I have my bonuses and everything. What happened was that I was fired. I was fired from my position.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, it was very interesting because, you see, the enemy of success is arrogance. And I was arrogant because I had an amazing career in corporate. I did great things and that came to my head. And I did not understand one thing in the corporate world and it's not your company, You're just an instrument for the goals of our organization and because I had this liberty to do whatever I want, because I had a chairman at that moment, a president, that allowed me to grow and do my projects the way I wanted. But when the organization changed, I did not understand that it was not my organization. So when the new management came I was not really following the rules. I thought you know what. I know what I'm doing. Who are they to tell me what to?
Speaker 1:do so I realized that I was thinking because I know so much and because I did all this project, I brought all this money nobody would touch me. And they did. They put me in the street. And that, for me, was a very important moment because it raised a question Know why me? You know for what? And realize that if you like to do whatever you want, maybe you are an entrepreneur, maybe you're a creator. And I think this is why it's important to have self-knowledge, Because if you don't really react very well to management and you don't like to be in an organization and follow rules in different directions, it might be that the culture of the company it changed completely, but you will have to comply. In this case, I did not want it to because I was comfortable the way things were and I was not ready for that change. And this is when I took the decision and I realized you know what, this is, who I am, and even though that I'm having so much fear, I was terrified. I was really terrified because, at that moment.
Speaker 1:It was a very difficult moment in my life, personally, professionally and then I decided you know I must go and whatever happens, happens right and just that's when I decided to create my own company, my own consultancy firm, and I reinvent myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Tell me about that process of reinvention. You know what were the first three things that you did to set yourself up for success as an independent?
Speaker 1:The first thing I did is to really invest in personal development. I think that it's not what you do, it's who you are. Personal development I think that it's not what you do, it's who you are. So, before I became the person that you see today, I had to do some inner work, and I did this with the help of mentors.
Speaker 1:I think, that is instrumental coaches, mentors not try to do it alone. I think it's good to work with someone who has already the experience and help you. Then you have to decide really, what are you good at? You know to understand your talent, your gift. All of us we do have talents and gifts right.
Speaker 1:Once you embrace that, you're going to discover all the talents and gifts that you might think that you're that you didn't have it. I mean, for example, I was terrified of speaking in public. I never Really You're so good at it. I might sound eloquent. That's funny. I might sound that I was, that I'm really comfortable speaking, but the truth is that when I was in college, I never, ever, was able to have an oral exam, even with a teacher like here, I was always having panic attacks.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, I mean, I developed this panic since I was a kid because kids laugh about me. One day that I have to do a poem in the middle of an event, I completely forgot. Everybody laughed in the middle of an event I completely forgot. Everybody laughed. I saw my family being so disappointed that I developed this fear to speak in public. And when you start working, then you realize all the blockages, all the obstacles, all the things that you have and you are that you didn't discover. So in this journey of self-discovery I decided you know, maybe I should try because I like it. And sometimes what you fear, behind the fear is an opportunity, and now it's something that I do for a living also. So I think that it's important to just do this self-discovery journey to know what are you good at, Because maybe you're not good at something and if you try and try it's not going to work. So I think also it's important to know when also to stop something right, right, it's not your path and it's not your path.
Speaker 1:And then I think you need to be surrounded of people who are really your cheerleaders. You need to have this kind of people who really, no matter what, are going to be there for you. And I always say there is eight types of friends. It's not a conversation because it's too long, but I just want to just say that you need cheerle leaders, you need mentors, you need the friend of all your life, you need that friend that holds you accountable. That is the pusher, you need the adventurer, you need the crazy friend, people who challenge you to be the best version of yourself, and I think you will never, ever do what you do without the right people, the right team the right people who would inspire you.
Speaker 1:I would say that this is the first three things that I did to make that leap.
Speaker 2:That's great, and were there some challenges along the way? I mean starting a wine business.
Speaker 1:I did all the mistakes that it could be in a business book, All the things that you say, avoid this, I went through. But I think this is how you learn you learn more from your mistakes. And my life has been shaped for all the mistakes I've made. And then the first mistake I did is because I did not know the industry. I didn't know really the business. I thought it's a beautiful business because when I was promoting Spain Spain is very big in wines I had the opportunity to create campaigns for the Rioja wines for different denominations of origins, I traveled with different winemakers and I understood the wine, but one thing is to see it from the outside.
Speaker 1:But we were not really informed and I didn't really have the training that you need sometimes in the information about the industry and a lot of people grow up in these industries because it comes from generations of family. In my case, it wasn't that case.
Speaker 1:And I think I was not really well documented. So I think, first of all, you need to know about business. I didn't know about business. I was always in the corporate but I never had a business on myself. In this case, I did a lot of mistakes, I didn't do a good budget and I thought also a lot of misperception. I thought, because I already had a personal brand, somehow that people will buy from me because I was busy. Right, not happen. It was a catastrophe. I mean, we didn't have sales and I was giving away so much wine.
Speaker 1:I remember I sent wines to Ghana and to Cameroon and different places and China and we wanted to be international, but we didn't know the regulations and the taxes that you need to pay all this bureaucracy. So it's very important to really understand the industry that you are, make a very good budget and really get to people and around people that they do better than you. So what saved us and that the reason why still be sealant wines is alive is only because of strategic partnerships. Then we realized, when we were sinking and I had like a debt of 100 000 euros and we were really about to close down, we found the right partner. So we really know how to do the best wines, because the first wines that were not so good, they did not represent that, because I could not really judge, because I was not really a person super documented and educated in wine to understand what is the best wine, documented and educated in wine to understand what is the best wine.
Speaker 1:And we had this person who had already a winery His great-grandfather had a winery. They know wines and we create this kind of authorship wines, special. The one I wanted to be Silla Wines, it's day four, like wine that it's's fun to drink, that is feminine, and we diversify also. We have white wine, red wines and also we have like the champagne wine right and we start to win in awards.
Speaker 1:We won an award in a in in germany and and then everything changed. But it happened when we had the right partner amazing. Another thing that I learned is that you don't have to walk alone. Yeah, you need to find the right person and be very, very humble. I don't know this, you know this. Just do it. And this is how we end up to right now, we're still surviving okay, so you have a business partner in this venture yes, we have a business partner in this venture.
Speaker 1:We have also a general manager. That is very good and I realized that I could not be in the day-to-day and the business I do, what I can do that is promoted, being the face of the wine and, at the same time, having experts doing what they do well.
Speaker 2:Wonderful. Yeah, we'll be back after the break. And now back to the episode. So that brings me to the BBALP, the literacy project that you founded. Tell me about the origins of that.
Speaker 1:The origins is incredible for me because it's a beautiful story. It happened because I was a decaf African.
Speaker 2:I like that. Decaav African, I like that.
Speaker 1:I was born in Spain from African parents but I was never in Africa Because when I was growing up my parents didn't have the opportunity to really take me to the country. So my exposure to Africa was all through books, because ever since I was nine years old I was exposed to read about Pan-Africanism, understanding the scars that colonization, slavery, had in Black people. It has an impact, but it's different To understand the reality of being a Black European, being a Black American, being a Black in the Caribbean, of being a Black European, being a Black American, being a Black in the Caribbean, being a Black African. My parents really gave me all these books to understand this. I understood also the geopolitical framework of what's going on in Africa.
Speaker 1:I grew up watching, reading about Nelson Mandela, about the apartheid. My father makers make summaries to understand everything. I like him, if not we would be punished. Like we understand what was going on in the continent, understanding also how all the countries and tribes are starting to be together and why the tribalism problems started. The ethnic problems happened. So all of this I learned since a very early age, but I was not able to see it, to experience it. So my gift when I turned 35 was to go to the continent and I also did international relations and my teachers were from Ghana and I had a project that it was the United States of Africa. That was my thesis in the school.
Speaker 1:And when I was there, the first thing it was, oh my God, all of these children. The only difference between them and I is that they did not have the opportunities that I have to go to school. I saw so many children that they were not able to go to school and for me that was a reality that I never thought I would encounter. And then I realized that somebody said I never had a book in my hands. Can I hold this? And I always travel with a book, right, and it was like it's not possible that it's happening.
Speaker 1:And I met a chief, the chief of Kokofu, and the chief of Kokofu. We developed a great relationship and he made me the queen development mother of Kokofu, which is a very small place near to Kumasi in Ghana. And of course, I just heard the word queen and I said, oh my God, I love this title. And then, when my vanity vanished and I said, okay, but what this means? Honestly, I love to be a queen, but what can I do for you? He said that is your decision. I'm going to give you a piece of land and just do what you feel that is the right thing to do. And then I created a library because I realized that if?
Speaker 1:I knew Africa through books. They could know about the world through books and they could shape their lives through books. This became my life mission to make sure that every kid has some access to books, because with a book you're never alone.
Speaker 2:And are you only in Ghana, operating in Ghana, or do you have other locations?
Speaker 1:We have other locations. Actually, I have a project that is going to go in South Africa very soon.
Speaker 2:I've been there Yay.
Speaker 1:My home country. I want to partner with different storytellers because the organization is shaping in different ways, because when we speak about literacy in the era of artificial intelligence, literacy is more than that. So I want to do also digital literacy so the project has developed and also financial literacy, because I realize that literacy is much more than know how to read or get an education. It's different areas. So we are in Uganda, we are in Zimbabwe, we are in Kenya and we are in Ghana. We have collaborations with different countries in Equatorial Guinea, in Cameroon, in Nigeria, with different. Now we're going to go to South Africa is one of the places that we also want to go, but we want to develop and step further. We don't want to be away from the artificial intelligence.
Speaker 1:That's why I was partnering with different organizations like Dreams Hub. We had a meeting with all the technological hubs in Africa, also with the people of Mountain Valley in Cameroon, and we're trying to work to create digital literacy and making programs from people. Children be exposed since very early age to the digital revolution, because we've never been involved in the industrial revolution but we can be involved in the digital revolution and I think Africa needs a voice and we want to develop that voice and, of course, we don't want anyone behind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this requires boys and girls to be able to be part of this transformation, but I also believe that without financial education, you can have a lot of knowledge, but you need really to understand how to create better levels of prosperity for you and your communities. So that's the reason why, also, we have decided to work in these areas. Sure, yeah, I see itself like. Yes, we want education. I believe that in this digital area, in this artificial intelligence time, what is really important is to encourage the kids to have creativity it is important Empathy and curiosity, I think, and adaptability. I think this is going to be a skill that we're going to need in this 21st century, and for that reason, you need to read, definitely, but you also need to understand financial information and you need to understand also the language of technology.
Speaker 2:Right, and you know how does this play out. Do you have courses? Do you have places where children get taught? You know, is it physical locations? How does it work?
Speaker 1:Through physical locations. For example, in Zimbabwe we have a spelling context and we give a scholarship to the children who are in this context. So we encourage them also to read, to be connected, since they are very small kids, and then they have the opportunity to really get the school paid for the whole year. We have a program, for example, in Kenya that is also a program for technology. They have classes every Friday and we gave them some computers and laptops and also tablets so they could be exposed, and they have this in the middle of the savannah with the Maasai children, right, I mean, they don't have the same access as other people, so we try to also work where there's no access.
Speaker 1:We go where most people they never even put a feet. So we go in very rural areas and the kids that really have no opportunity. So we also have solar panels so they could have also the electricity that they need so they could be connected, because in some areas energy. So we work with that. And in uganda also we also have different programs and now we're going to do online several programs for financial literacy, working with some of my friends who are women bankers who really know a lot about financial health basically, and understanding also prosperity and abundance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's amazing. Such great work. So when do you envisage the South African project starting, and which locations have you chosen for that?
Speaker 1:I started in the year 2017. And the first time I was in the World Economic Forum in the year 2012, I think, or 11, the first time that I was exposed to South Africa and the realities of South Africa. Of course, you are much more developed than some other countries, but then I learned that there is some communities that also were in challenging situations and the partnerships at that time did not develop. But the last time I found someone who could really be a good partner because we need a partner there.
Speaker 1:We need the right person to do these kind of projects, because we want these projects to be sustainable and we don't want a stop and go, we want something that will stay in the time.
Speaker 1:So I think sometimes you have to kiss, kiss many frogs until you find it absolutely but right now I think I kissed the right one and hopefully I will be at the end of this year going back and and just um continue with the project. Sure, but it will be basically next to Pretoria and some of the rural areas around that area. That's the way that we do it, okay.
Speaker 2:And how are you financed? How do you raise the money to sustain all of these projects?
Speaker 1:Well, I've been very slow through the years. We started in the year 2010. Now it's 15 years. So, through the years, we started in the year 2010,. Now it's 15 years and always has been part of the way that I do business is we give part of the benefits of my business to these projects. So this is how we've been funding. My organization is not about to raise funding through galas and make big things and having a board of super top people For me, I was.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is not my way of living but from the benefits that I do from the wines, the wines profits go to libraries. And also I released a book in the year 2003, and now I'm releasing one this year. In September I'm going to release my next book and all of the benefits go also for libraries. I decided that this model allows me to be free to do what I can do and not rely on a board or, you know, to having so many problems. So when there is no biases because when my team and I we decided to go somewhere, we're trying to do the best we can we find the partners and we just do it. So I go slow, but the thing is that we make more impact because we don't have all the politics. That implies to have big organizations yeah, and everything and the people who come with me.
Speaker 1:I also do organized travels with me. I also do organized travels. I mean there's trips where I bring 10 people, for example, up to 18 people. Now I'm going to go with a group of Mexican businesswomen and we're all going to go to Kenya so they see the project themselves. I'm not asking them for money. They see it and they want to contribute because, living with the communities, knowing these children, they want to be part of the narrative of these children. So my way of working is different. I don't ask for money. You want to give the money because you are there and you realize that you can create the impact. So you do it yourself. So my friends and my contacts, they do it with me because they come with me and they see it, so they get engaged from a different perspective, interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really amazing approach. So tell me about this book that's coming out in September. What is it called and what is it about?
Speaker 1:Well the name. We're still with the publisher, but for now and I think it's going to stay this way is the Fear and I an unexpected story. The first book is called. We All have a Story to Tell and I speak more about my journey. And in this book I speak about my relationship with fear, how fear has been part of my life since my ancestors. I started speaking from the fear that my great-grandmothers experienced Some of them they were killed, situations of domestic violence and how this fear traveled through my veins and also blocked me in many ways. The fear also of the unknown when you are an immigrant, like my parents have experienced. The fear of me being the daughter of immigrants immigrate myself to United States. The fear of being who I am. The fear of my own color of the skin, the fear of really embrace entrepreneurship or I mean, be who I am just that fear.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your roots. So I speak about different kinds of fears. It's 12 chapters Speaking about also the fear to be successful.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:On the Jonas complex. A lot of women. We have that fear about the, the syndrome of the wonder woman. I can do everything.
Speaker 2:All at the same time and still look great, and I'm not sweating.
Speaker 1:I can do everything All at the same time and still look great, and I'm not sweating. I'm always great, no matter what, and I'm never tired. That is also a sign of fear, the imposter syndrome that we all know very well. All these fears have names, have shapes and they are the water. They take all the forms, the perfectionism. So I speak about this openly and, of course, I studied this for many, many years and I speak from my experience, also being a mentor for CEOs, to understand that all of us fear is universal the fear of death, the fear of getting old. Right now we are all talking about longevity. You just go on Instagram, everybody talking about how we could stay here forever. And I just speak about Africans. We see this fear differently Because what I experienced with my grandmothers that they were so happy to be old, they were really wisdom and they embrace their age yeah, and right now we're rejecting this. So in the book I also speak about cultural intelligence. I mean how, from one culture or another, we see the fears differently, sure, yeah?
Speaker 2:so yeah, I.
Speaker 1:I had fun writing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. What did you discover about yourself through writing this book?
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, that I have so much fears, all the fears listed, except the fear of sickness. I'd never been really a fear of sickness because I always saw myself healthy.
Speaker 1:but you know, everybody knows hypochondriacs, people who you know, they hear something and they go to Google and have these symptoms and some people in my family have this fear, I think, except that one, a lot of the fears I just experienced through myself, and I speak about how I overcome that fear, how I make friends with the fear of not having money, I mean it was one of the fears that took my sleep so many times how am I going to do this?
Speaker 1:How am I going to take care of my children? I mean, all of these fears exist and I talk openly about how do I experience them and what I did and I gave my tips. I mean, this is how it helped me to go from A to Z, what I did and I just exposed and I gave people exercises to see how you could definitely become a friend of fear, because fear is going to be part of your life always. So better for you if you became friends. You're having a conversation, conversation that, instead of blocking you, really it is a trampoline for you. It's something that gives you the impulse that you need.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:And that fear sometimes is trying to tell you and it's trying to be a guide. It's trying to be a compass, but we are used to run away from the fear deny it deny it.
Speaker 2:So that's one thing I discovered yeah, that's nice, and uh is, who is it aimed at?
Speaker 1:everyone. I mean, I think it's made for everyone because I speak about different fears. Ever since you're in the school, you know to choose a career that you might think, oh no, no, I have to make money, I should not do that. You know that fear yeah choose what you want to do, how many decisions we make looking for money, not looking for a passion, right so I think, from early age.
Speaker 1:It will benefit you to read. I also think that for entrepreneurs and people who want to be in business, who want to incorporate and would like to do the jump, people also want to incorporate that they are stuck and they never move forward. So there is some fears that don't allow you because you have the fear to be visible and the fear of being visible. I mean, at the end of the day it's like no one sees you, so definitely you're never gonna get that promotion that you want. So I speak also about and also, I think, for mothers or stay-at-home mothers, you know, who really believe that they could not do more, or people who have certain age. I mean mean ageism exists. I mean everybody is like everything is about age. Well, I did so many things after 40. My real journey is that after 40. And I'm in my 50s and I just started.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, it's just the beginning, right.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. I think that it's men to men, women, and I was also surprised of the first book. I make a statistic my youngest reader was a girl of seven years old from Moroccan origin, and the other person was a man from Valencia who was 78.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:And he was a businessman. Let's say he has a big corporation. So I realized, wow, if my story was. I mean, he gave me such a beautiful feedback. So we make any statistics and we realize that I don't really have an audience. That is really a niche, Right.
Speaker 2:It's universal.
Speaker 1:It's a niche for anyone and actually fear who doesn't have fear. In this case, I think this book will be even more appealing to a bigger, larger audience wonderful, we'll be back after the break.
Speaker 2:And now back to the episode. And the other way that you tell your story is through a podcast called bb knows best. Tell me what you discuss on there and, uh, who should listen?
Speaker 1:this podcast started because one of my great, great sisters and person who has been longer working with me she is a Congolese, french girl Amazing she baptized me with BB and she said oh, you know these best practices right, so you have to do this and give them advice about different areas. So we started in 2020, when it was the time that we all went home and I had a lot of time. So we create this podcast. I started in YouTube.
Speaker 1:I did it in English and Spanish, because I have audience that they speak both languages, and it started to pick up and it was good. And then, when we have to go back to work and I didn't have so much time before, it was releasing an episode every week and it was video, but then I didn't have so much time. So we releasing an episode every week and it was video, but then I didn't have so much time, so we decided to just keep it like an audio podcast and sometimes we do have videos and interviews with people who are very interesting, like now we have one releasing in the middle of august.
Speaker 1:That is going to be with someone who works in the space agency, the european space, yeah, and, but he's a very spiritual, deep spiritual person.
Speaker 1:Even though that he's an electrical in the space agency the European Space Agency oh nice, yeah. But he's a very spiritual, deep spiritual person. Even though that he's an electrical engineer and he's a PhD in physics, he still talks about astrology, about Kabbalah and about different spiritual things. But we have these kind of conversations in the podcast and it's always to bring people who know a lot about something Nice, so it's not me knowing everything, but I invite people who know in different areas. And the podcast we have two a month and we release it in English. And also I have another podcast. It's mostly in Spanish. It's called Tu Mejor Yo, which means the Best you, and that's for the Spanish speaking audience.
Speaker 2:Yes, you are very busy. I like that.
Speaker 1:You see, I am, and a lot of people say that they have 24. Yesterday, actually, someone asked me that they have for you 24 hours. I have children, I'm married, I have mother, father, brothers, sisters, friends.
Speaker 2:Exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think that we need to be extremely careful, and I speak about that the fear of time, I don't have time. I never say that. There's two things that you need to remove from your vocabulary immediately I don't have money and I don't have time, because that becomes your mantras. Every time you say I don't have time, I don't have time, you shorten your time. So I always have time and never say I don't have money. We always have money for whatever we want to have it.
Speaker 2:That is true.
Speaker 1:This is so powerful when you remove that two sentences out of your vocabulary you just reset your mindset in a way and you start attracting a different reality. So I do have time, I do exercise, I go to the gym. I totally yesterday I was in the gym with my kids. We always working out, I mean then we had dinner and I also have several companies that I manage. I have a team of 12 people.
Speaker 1:I mean I could do it, but I think it's a way and my advice for everyone who is listening is just have that time, give yourself the opportunity to have time, Say you have the time and you will make it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so a quick rapid fire. Uh, first thing that comes to mind, just answer as you best see fit which business woman do you admire and why?
Speaker 1:I admire Oprah. She was my first source of inspiration because when I was growing up I never really have a reference point. Yeah, I mean the first biography of a woman when I was growing up. I never really have a reference point yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean the first biography of a woman that I read, that it was someone. It was Benazir Buto who was the first, and my parents gave me that book and at that time in the 80s, when I was growing up, at that time it wasn't so the first time that I heard about a black woman being a millionaire, billionaire. In the 90s it was Oprah. So she is still in the game. So in this case, I would say this is the first one that comes to my mind.
Speaker 2:Great, and apart from Oprah, if you had to host another famous black woman at dinner, who would it be, and why?
Speaker 1:I would like to have Michelle Obama, you see, because I also think that, being so smart and being holding the space the way she did in a very difficult time, I think I would love to have a wonderful conversation with her, and I also, if I could bring a woman that is not in this dimension, it would be Cleopatra, too. I would love to have a conversation. I heard that you speak a lot of languages, that she was an extremely great diplomat, and I always had a lot of admirations for people who are very worldly, that they are culturally intelligent and they are able to be people who shape different narratives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, great. And what is the one thing you can't do without on any given day?
Speaker 1:One thing I cannot do is reading. I need to have a book with me. I mean, I'm addicted to books. If you tell me what is a big addiction, it's books.
Speaker 2:That's great. And what's the best life advice you've received and still apply to this day?
Speaker 1:I think, the best advice that I ever and actually I don't know from where, but I think I read this sentence and it's I don't follow orders, I follow my dreams. I didn't hear from someone, but that I just applied to my life and it became like really the way I do my life, nice.
Speaker 1:If people want to work with you, want to get in touch, and just discover a lot more about BeZilla, where can they find you? Number one don't be shy, write me. A lot of people is like she's so busy. You're not the person who make that decision. I make that decision. Yes, just write me, and you can write me through Instagram, linkedin, and you can write me through Instagram, linkedin. I am, my name is here, bicela Bococo. All the channels, my website, everywhere you can find me and I will be there for you.
Speaker 2:Wonderful Thanks for listening to Shades and Layers. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a friend and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next time, keep celebrating the shades and layers of your story.
