Revenue Enablement Society - Stories From The Trenches
The Revenue Enablement Society's "Stories From The Trenches is where revenue enablement practitioners share their real world experiences. Get the scoop on what's happening inside revenue enablement teams across the global RES member community. Each segment of "Stories From The Trenches" share the good, the bad, and the ugly practices of corporate revenue enablement initiatives. Learn what worked, what didn't work, and how obstacles were eliminated by enablement teams and GTM leadership. Sit back, grab a cold one and join host Paul 'Norf' Norford, for casual conversations about the wide and varied profession of revenue enablement where there is never a one size fits all solution.
The wide and varied profession of Revenue Enablement ensures there is never a one-size-fits-all solution to be successful. Amidst constant change the journey to successful outcomes is never the same. Learn from your peers and gain insights on topics like:
-Building strategies and metrics that correlate back to revenue impact
-Gathering requirements to identify stakeholders
-Gaining buy-in and executive sponsorship
-Aligning with sales leaders
-Facilitating cross-functional collaboration
Revenue Enablement Society - Stories From The Trenches
Ep. 61 - Brett Childs - SDR Enablement
Get ready to unlock the secrets of successful SDR enablement with Brett Childs.. This episode sees us peeling back the layers of the often under-appreciated role of the Sales Development Representatives (SDRs), the true warriors at the frontline of the customer journey.
Brett pulls back the curtain on his proven approach to enabling SDR teams, one that prioritizes tracking every step of the sales process and honing individual skill sets. He walks us through his system that includes watching the conversion ratios and behaviors, and using this data to pinpoint the needed skills for each individual. If you've been looking for ways to level up your SDR enablement game, this episode is what you've been waiting for.
Brett has been called a lot of things, farmhand, video game salesperson, insurance agent, manager... but, if he had to pick his favorites, it would be teacher and coach. Nothing brings more joy to him than helping others succeed.
His wife and children are his best friends and his goal in life is to experience as much of this amazing world with them as possible.
His motto for life? "Work hard, play hard!"
Please subscibe on Apple, Spotify or Google.
Welcome to the Sales Enablement Society Stories from the Trenches, where enablement practitioners share their real-world experiences. Get the scoop on what's happening inside Sales Enablement teams across the global SES member community. Each segment of Stories from the Trenches share the good, the bad and the ugly practices of corporate sales. Enablement initiatives learned what worked, what didn't work and how obstacles were eliminated by corporate teams and leadership. Head back, grab a cold one and join host Paul Butterfield for casual conversations about the wide and varied profession of sales enablement, where there is never a fits all solution.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome back to another episode of Stories from the Trenches the only podcast that is 100% biased for us, and we bring together practitioners from all over the world who are doing cool things. Sometimes doing cool things means you don't succeed the first time, and we talk about that frankly and sometimes they just knock it out of the park. Either way, we always have a good time and we always learn something at least I do. I'm excited to introduce you this time to someone that I've actually had the privilege of working with for a few years. His name is Brett Childs. He is currently a Sales Enablement Director at Instructure EdTech Company. When I first met Brett, he was the founding sales enabler at Lucid and built that program out for the first few years. So welcome, brett. Hey, thank you so much, paul. I've been looking forward to this Cool. You want to maybe just introduce yourself a little bit. We'll do an icebreaker question, but let people know a little bit about yourself on a personal level. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:So I have two kids. They are absolutely amazing my little girl, mia, my little boy, kenji. We have a dance star on the rise in Mia and a football star on the rise in Kenji. He just started flag football this year, so he's amazing. And then, of course, my wonderful wife, who is so talented in so many ways a business owner, a mom and just a rock star in every way. Outside of that, I've either been doing sales, sales leadership or sales enablement my entire career. I think we're getting on close to 15 years now, which is crazy, and it's about a 30, 30, 30, or 33% split between each. I sold very actively for about five years, managed teams for close to five years, and now I've been doing enablement for just over five years and it has been an amazing experience and just learning the hard way a lot of times and now being able to teach others from some of those stories.
Speaker 2:Excellent and fun fact about Brett everyone. His wife is a published like Big Ty published cookbook author and yet somehow he manages to walk around swole most of the time. So kudos to you, brett. Maybe a little more, I'm sure you helped sample the recipes that are being developed right.
Speaker 3:So Plenty of sampling. There's a little more swole in the midsection than I am hoping for, but trying, trying my best.
Speaker 2:All right, all right, cool, all right. So nobody leaves without doing the Jimmy Kimmel challenge. So here's yours, that's good. Kimmel retires, I'm team, I am team Fallon, so I really don't care if Kimmel retires, but you know. So let's just say he does and somehow for your network maybe. Lisa, she's got the New York connection right.
Speaker 3:There you go.
Speaker 2:You get offered his show. You can have anybody you want on for the first episode. Who is it and why did you choose them?
Speaker 3:All right, I'm going to pick a lesser known individual. He's probably my YouTube favorite, outside of my wife, of course. His name is Andre Jick and he has such an interesting story.
Speaker 3:Where he came, his parents were immigrants.
Speaker 3:He came from almost nothing, learned a little bit of street magic and was able to do the magician thing out in Las Vegas for a little while, and he eventually became this incredible investor where he saved as much money as he possibly could from all of his magician gigs and then just invested heavily in dividend stocks and just poured all of his time and talent and money into learning how stocks work and how investments work and how money works.
Speaker 3:And now he's an incredibly successful YouTuber just talking about his research and talking about trends in finance and trends and investments. And it's amazing how somebody who came from immigrant parents, knew nothing about money, really took a risk by saving as much as they could and investing in something they had no idea what they were doing and then from those situations learned wow, anybody can really learn how investments work, how stocks work, how dividends work, and so I'd love to have him on the show to really help teach myself and the average American hey, you actually can pull yourself out from the most crazy of situations and become wealthy through investing and trying a little bit of risk here and there.
Speaker 2:That sounds really interesting. What's his name again?
Speaker 3:Andre Jick, and the last name is spelled J-I-K-H, and him and I are the same age. Thank you, yeah, him and I are the same age too, so I was like, whoa, that's really cool.
Speaker 2:It is very cool. Thanks for sharing that. I just picked up something to go watch too. So Brett and I are going to talk about enabling SDRs. There are a lot of organizations I would say the majority of organizations that I'm personally aware of that have a substantial investment in SDRs. Brett, would you agree that SDRs are really the tip of the spear when it comes?
Speaker 3:to the customer journey. Yes, sdrs are the tip of the spear and they are they've got to be the most resilient of your sales team. They're incredible.
Speaker 2:No doubt I'll be honest.
Speaker 2:If you'd asked me before 2020 and lockdown if SDRs could work remotely, I'm sure I would have said no, because only because it is such a difficult job You're getting punched in the face multiple times every hour and if you don't have a bullpen to be able to swivel and just kind of learn from each other or prop each other up on the bad days, that sort of thing, it just I'm happy to say I was wrong. I know a number of SDR organizations that thrived and still do so. It's interesting that we don't hear as much about SDR enablement, because if they are such a critical first point of contact and I don't want to pigeonhole you because you do a lot of enablement besides SDRs your leadership enablement is top notch, your overall enablement acumen is top notch, but you have built over the last few years that I've known you probably the best SDR enablement program that I've seen, and so I appreciate you coming on day to talk about that. So let's start off with, I think, what you called earning the right to play. What does?
Speaker 2:that mean yes.
Speaker 3:So throughout my career I've been in SDR, I've managed SDR teams and I've enabled SDR teams at other organizations. And there are some organizations where the culture, depending on your product, depending on the industry that you're serving, can really hold tight to the best that, hey, you don't know us, you don't know our processes, you don't know who we're selling to, I don't know if I can actually listen to you, and that's 100% fair. I've been in those shoes where I've had people from third party organizations try to come in and teach me a methodology. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah cool, I'll take the parts that work for me, but you don't know who I'm talking to every day, so you don't know the life Exactly. You haven't done it. You don't know the life, and I've since learned that I can learn a lot from everybody. So I've tried to really pull that back a little bit.
Speaker 3:But in some of the teams that I've worked with, I've said, hey, you know what You're right. I don't know who you're talking to. I'm coming from a different industry. I have learned my sales best practices through my experiences. Let me jump into yours, let me find out what you're dealing with and walk a day in your shoes, and so I've done this twice now, where I've talked to the sales leaders that are struggling with me the most and I've said please give me your 10 worst leads so that if I am absolutely awful and I flub it up, it's not a huge loss to you. Give me your 10 worst leads and let me work your process, start to finish, and see what you're experiencing, what your team is going through. And I did that, excuse me.
Speaker 2:Pause. We can fix it. Just start over when you're ready.
Speaker 3:I did that with a team here a couple of years ago and I learned so much. I said, wow, the education industry is different. The teachers and admins and faculty that are working with these students have unique challenges and our SDRs have unique challenges reaching out to these people. And so when I took these 10 leads, I was really going out of the limb saying, wow, if I don't convert a single one of these, maybe I'm going to be even worse, in a worse position where nobody will want to listen to me.
Speaker 2:So hold on a second. Sorry to interrupt, but I want to be really clear. You actually jumped on the phones and did SDR work with the leads they gave you. I did. That is pretty high risk, so I just wanted to be really clear about that. Okay, so continue.
Speaker 3:Yes, it was high risk. But the good news was is, as I was making these calls, as I was getting a hold of people, the leaders noticed. They noticed they listened to my calls. They said, wow, brett is willing to talk to these people, whether he's good or not. They didn't give me feedback on that. You didn't get any job offers. I didn't get any job offers. No, but they knew I was willing to do the work and feel what they were feeling. And it was amazing how it was almost like a light bulb just turned on, a switch happened and you know, I still had to earn a little bit through some trial and error. But the good news was is, all of a sudden they were asking me. They said, oh well, how did you do this in that SDR team? And oh well, now that you know what we're going through, what would be your advice on this? And it was amazing how it went from a Always critical, not willing to listen anything, I have to say, to actually asking questions, and it was a really cool experience.
Speaker 2:And so it sounds like, whether or not you were very good at it and, and to be fair to you, it probably been years since you'd been an SDR.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean you don't know the motion, but I guarantee even experienced SDRs Don't get a lot out of the first 10 leads that they call so. But that didn't matter. That wasn't the point to them. The point was you invested in the upfront. Is that right? Yeah?
Speaker 3:and it was. It was a few months of pain, so I'm glad we got it done sooner rather than later. All right.
Speaker 2:All right. So then, what? What? What happens next? It sounds like they came to you and Asked for advice. I don't know who is coaching per se, but at least advice. I had to leverage that to then take the program to the next stage. Great question.
Speaker 3:So, after, after we earned the right to sit at the table, I, what I noticed is some leaders from that moment on were like, hey, you know we're going through, so please Come tell me, tell me what I'm doing wrong. And and they were very receptive and we were going back and forth Almost on a sit twice a month basis where we would just sit down, look at the team together and go, hey, this person's struggling, let's talk through how we can help them. Others were still, you know, willing to talk with me but didn't want any any coaching on their teams. But I have one leader specifically it was it was so great where she was really interested in growing her career. She was really interested in helping her team overcome some big challenges because she had essentially gotten a brand new team in about a six month period and and so she had all new people. She had like one experienced person that was being promoted out and she said, hey, I've got a fresh team. Can you please come out, sit with me, sit with the team, and I'd love to see you know how you would start this new team.
Speaker 3:And and so we did a lot of great coaching wow team where we did some onboarding. We talked about, you know, the product. We talked about our processes, we talked about our systems, and then every day, for the last hour and a half, two hours, the leader and I would sit down and talk about how do we coach a team, how do we run team meetings, how do we speak confidently in front of a group that's struggling because we're all new? How do we speak confidently in front of other leaders who may be more senior to us? How do we talk up, how do we talk down? How do we talk to peers? And it was amazing how she just was willing to absorb that after she had known. Okay, brett knows what I'm going through. He's done this with other teams, and when he does this with my team, we do a little bit better, and so that's when I got the invite to come out.
Speaker 2:That's the key right there. If you're getting results, you're helping her get results at least. Yeah exactly. And, if I'm not mistaken, the time frame for this was in the 2020 to 20 through 2021 time frame, when, when the SDRs were dealing with all kinds of other change right.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, it was 2021 and it was a tumultuous time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, very tumultuous.
Speaker 3:I remember I had to get all of my vaccines up to date before I went out there, because Australia had just barely opened up in that situation.
Speaker 2:All right, so you started to talk about Numbers and getting the numbers to change. Can you share with us your methodology or what the approach that you were implementing with that leader and maybe other leaders that Let you do that?
Speaker 3:work and track. Yes, actually, this specific I Wouldn't even call it a methodology. It's just what I used when I was an SDR leader. That really helped me focus in on Enabling people each individual on my team with really what they needed. Instead of we still had team meetings and we would have blanket trainings, but in my one-on-ones they were very, very focused on numbers, and so what I did okay was I would essentially Just create a spreadsheet. It was very manual and thank goodness there's a lot of companies out there that can do this automatically for you now but it was very, very manual. But it taught me so much where I would document every single step in the sales process for my SDR team, from from receiving a lead To a successful Handoff call.
Speaker 3:When I say successful meeting, an opportunity was actually generated because my team, when I had an SDR team, got comped on number of handoff calls but also number of successful handoff calls that turned into opportunities. That was just our comp structure and so I documented excellent sense. I, yeah, I document every conversion ratio from lead to that handoff call. So lead to first call, first call to qualification, qualification to handoff call, handoff call to successful handoff call, and I would essentially document how many activities it would take to get from point A to point B, point B to point C, c to D and so on and so forth. And then I also documented what are the behaviors associated with each of those. Because that first call, obviously we're talking about our outbound sequencing and messaging. We're talking about our first script, our first 15 seconds on the phone call just to see if somebody's willing to continue the conversation. We're talking about the types of discovery questions we ask on that very first call versus our second and third call.
Speaker 3:And so what I was able to do with my team is see who is being successful at these different conversion points, who was struggling, and then, really hyper, observe my successful people at those points, shadow them, ask them questions in our one-on-ones and say, hey, would you mind either doing a training or can I take what you're doing and maybe see if I or you would be willing to help this other person and do a little bit of shadowing, do a little bit of coaching? And so I took these numbers and essentially created a very simplified version for all of our SDR leaders here at Instructure and said, hey, this is the best way for you to be. Well, in my opinion, the best way for you to be able to hyper focus on the skills needed for that conversion point for that individual. So no longer is your one-on-one hey, you're not hitting the goal, please do better. Or hey, you're not hitting the goal, please read this book. It's hey, you're not hitting the goal.
Speaker 3:And here's the three behaviors that I've noticed across the team that are successful at this point. To help. Let's have a conversation about that. Let's look at two or three call recordings. At that point it's constructive and actionable 100%.
Speaker 2:Yes, I used to work for somebody that called that other kind of feedback. I used to work for somebody that referred to feedback that wasn't constructive and actionable as drive-by feedback, which I always thought was kind of a funny term, but it's sadly used too often.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's amazing how telling somebody to do better with maybe more words or less words can be one of the most deflating comments, Even if you're just trying to encourage them. You're trying to lift them up by just saying, hey, I know you can do it. If you do better at closing more deals, you're going to make more money. It's like, yeah, I'm trying that already. Yeah, that has always been my goal. Duh, and it's amazing how, if you can focus in on a behavior associated with a metric, that person can get excited. They can go oh, I have not tried that. Or hey, I have tried that. What else do you think might work? And you can do a lot more constructive building of a plan together.
Speaker 3:And that leads me to my favorite saying that I tell each and every one of my leaders is when I sit down with my kids and we're drawing pictures, I could draw the Mona Lisa and they could draw a stick figure dinosaur. The stick figure dinosaur is what's going up on the fridge. They go cool dad, nice picture. But I drew this Through this type of coaching, where you're collaborating together on what behaviors could improve a specific metric, and they are the ones bringing forth ideas, they are the ones challenging you on your ideas. All of a sudden they're willing to put that picture on the fridge far more than you just dictating hey, you need to make 20 more calls where you're asking this discovery question. No, let's extend that conversation five more minutes and help them get to that conclusion. So they're willing to adopt that plan versus a dictation.
Speaker 2:I love that analogy with the pictures. That's a good one.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:With SDRs with anybody really, but we're talking about SDRs today. An enablement challenge is often too much sit and get. Retention is always difficult, even in the best training environment, but there's just too many times, at least in my experience with, like I say, there's just too much sit and get. What has your formula, successful formula, been to maximize the training time you do get in front of these SDRs and make it a better experience for them and hopefully stickier.
Speaker 3:Yeah, great question. So a big part of my experience with SDRs is and really with human beings in general is, the more you can put your hands on something and start touching it, the more likely you're going to figure it out faster. Yes, the instruction manual is required, but I tell you what, when I get a new lawnmower and I got to put the pieces together, I just got to get started and then when I get stuck, go look at the manual. Right, some people are very different, but I know this, especially with our SDRs, when we are together, especially focusing on one of those behaviors associated with the metric, practice time is key. We got to know the why. We got to start with the why. We all hear about that. Start with the why, but get into the hands-on content where we're taking that why and applying it as soon as possible. And so typically my structure when we're focused on a metric where the manager has actually said hey, brett, we're focused on this metric, we're focused on this behavior. Will you help us create a live session where we can train this? And that word training is so funny because a lot of people understand that as sit and get, but we have completely thrown that out the door with our SDRs.
Speaker 3:We typically have a structure of about 10 to 15 minutes where we talk about the why. We have a brief discussion about why are we talking about this, why is this behavior impactful and why, if you try something new, could you see a new result. Then the bulk of the meeting let's say we have a 50-minute structure, 25 minutes is getting in there and working on scenarios. So I do a lot of pre-work to our live sessions. I will, before the meeting, take two or three hours and meet with product marketing to understand their research in the industry and throw scenarios by them and say is this realistic? Is this what you have seen in the field? I'll meet with some of the SDRs and say, hey, I'm writing this scenario. Is this anywhere similar to what you're experiencing and how would you say that's different?
Speaker 3:I'll meet with the managers and say, hey, this is the behavior we're looking for and this is the scenario I've crafted for us to practice around this. What am I missing? And so I'll really have a community of people making sure that whatever we're practicing is truly realistic. But I always go in with the premise of this is the place to make mistakes, this is the place to try new things. This is the place where, after you've learned the why Safe space, yeah, safe place where you've learned the why, let's just start feeling it out.
Speaker 3:And so for 25 to 30 minutes we will do that, and then at the end we recap and this is the key the managers will assign the homework, because in the one-on-one is where that follow-up happens. So I give the whole floor back over to the manager and say managers, all you to close this out. What I've also noticed is that really allows the managers to stay in authority. It gives that power to them to say this is my team, this is my program, brett is here helping me, which I am all for, and it gives them that power to continue on the conversation beyond this training quote-unquote.
Speaker 2:I like that format. I'm just sitting here processing it. So I'm sure, because we believe it or not, our time is coming up, at least. So let me ask you this I'm sure that there are people listening right now that are thinking about SDR enablement in a different way, whether they already have some in SDR enablement, whether they don't have any special SDR enablement. So, either way, what are some first steps that you recommend for people that are thinking that way now?
Speaker 3:Yeah, great question. I honestly think the sooner you can earn the right to play, the sooner you can sit in their shoes, even if it's just for one day where you take a handful of leads and if you're too scared which I get. Some of us are not coming from sales backgrounds, some of us are very academic here in enablement and we need both Overcome it. Get out there, make even two or three phone calls in with the SDR leader shadowing you so you can ask for feedback and go. Is that what your team is experiencing? Is this normal? How is this going for your team? So I'd say, get a leader two under your belt as soon as you can.
Speaker 3:Shadow those SDRs as much as you can those first couple of weeks so you can truly feel what they are feeling and then focus in on what's in it for them. What are the behaviors associated with each one that can help them hit their goals? Because if it's a rah rah, shish kumbah hey, I'm excited to be here in enablement and teach you guys new things they're going to probably quickly shut you down until they know that you can feel what comes to the phone. Exactly, yeah, exactly. So get in there, try it out. Shadow, light, crazy. Before you make any recommendations, appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Well, again, we're time, almost time to wrap up, but I don't want to let you go without having to just drop some life wisdom on us. So doesn't have to do anything. With enablement, it's up to you. But you're given the gift of time travel and you're allowed to go back and coach young Brett on anything, but you're only allowed to do one topic. What do you wish you'd understood earlier in life?
Speaker 3:Oh man, such a great question. I'd probably tell myself. What I oftentimes tell my kids now because I hope that they're better than me is every single person you meet knows something more than you do, whether it's a work skill, whether it's a interpersonal skill, whether it's a financial skill, whatever it is, they have something more than you do in some area, and so never hold yourself above anyone. I thought I was a little cooler than I was when I was younger and now, looking back, I go wow, I have so much to learn from every person I meet. How dare I ever think I am ever above anyone If I ever have any ego? That is completely out the door now, because I've been shown many times, sometimes in the most rough ways. No, you really don't know what you're talking about on this topic. Let me show you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, you don't have to comment on this, but I think you'd agree that we both married up and that is one of the benefits of that relationship.
Speaker 3:No doubt. Yes, both very kind words and some saying honey, you just don't know what you're talking about and I go. Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's right. What were you thinking? Yeah, so all right. Well, brett, we really appreciate your time. Like I said, I've been doing this over three years and I'm not sure why we haven't hit this, but I'm excited that, now that we have, you were able to share some very specific and thoughtful experiences and some great ideas for people moving forward. If anyone wants to follow up or ask you a bit about what you've heard, or maybe even something else, is LinkedIn the best place to find you.
Speaker 3:I love LinkedIn. It's the only social that I actually look at every day. All the others are oh my gosh. That's another topic we can talk about. So LinkedIn, come find me. Yeah, I love chatting about this topic and helping in any way I can.
Speaker 2:Thank you, brett, and thank you to everybody that's invested another half hour of your time with us. We appreciate it. We wouldn't be here and able to do what we do without you. So stay safe the next two weeks, and then we'll be back with another new episode.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining this episode of Stories from the Trenches. For more sales enablement resources, be sure to join the Sales Enablement Society at sesocietyorg. That's s-e-s-o-c-i-e-t-y dot o-r-g.
