Revenue Enablement Society - Stories From The Trenches
The Revenue Enablement Society's "Stories From The Trenches is where revenue enablement practitioners share their real world experiences. Get the scoop on what's happening inside revenue enablement teams across the global RES member community. Each segment of "Stories From The Trenches" share the good, the bad, and the ugly practices of corporate revenue enablement initiatives. Learn what worked, what didn't work, and how obstacles were eliminated by enablement teams and GTM leadership. Sit back, grab a cold one and join host Paul 'Norf' Norford, for casual conversations about the wide and varied profession of revenue enablement where there is never a one size fits all solution.
The wide and varied profession of Revenue Enablement ensures there is never a one-size-fits-all solution to be successful. Amidst constant change the journey to successful outcomes is never the same. Learn from your peers and gain insights on topics like:
-Building strategies and metrics that correlate back to revenue impact
-Gathering requirements to identify stakeholders
-Gaining buy-in and executive sponsorship
-Aligning with sales leaders
-Facilitating cross-functional collaboration
Revenue Enablement Society - Stories From The Trenches
Ep. 68 - Rodney Umrah - Tiger Seller Profiles
Have you heard of the "Tiger Seller Profile"? It's a concept and framework developed and used by Rodney Umrah during his years in sales, account management and enablement at IBM, Microsoft, NetSuite and in his current role as Head of Global Revenue, Partner and Customer Enablement.
In this episode Rodney explains how to elevate your sales team's performance as we dissect the elements that transform good sellers into great ones, and how tailored enablement programs can act as a catalyst for widespread excellence. For example:
- Identifying the skills, tactics and techniques of a Tiger Seller
- Working with HR and recruiting teams to elevate the hiring process
- Identifying skills gaps and enablement priorities based on Tiger Sellers
- Aligning sales process stages to the strengths of Tiger Sellers
Rodney Umrah has 26 years’ experience working in the global technology industry (software / cloud) at IBM, Microsoft, Oracle NetSuite, Xactly and Forcepoint. He has a wealth of experience in technical, sales, revenue, partner and customer enablement leadership roles.
Rodney’s vision is to deliver enablement services globally that accelerate revenue growth and improve customer retention and satisfaction.
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Welcome to the Revenue Enablement Society Stories from the Trenches, where enablement practitioners share their real-world experiences. Get the scoop on what's happening inside revenue enablement teams across the global RES community. Each segment of stories from the trenches shares the good, the bad and the ugly practices of corporate revenue enablement initiatives. Learn what worked, what didn't work and how obstacles were eliminated by enablement teams and go-to-market leadership. Sit back, grab a cold one and join host Paul Butterfield, founder of Revenue Flywheel Group, for casual conversations about the wide and varied profession of revenue enablement, where there's never a one-size-fits-all solution.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Revenue Enablement Society Podcast, stories in the Trenches the only podcast as far as we know. That's all by practitioners for practitioners, where we have the opportunity to bring together people from all over the world that are doing amazing things in enablement, talk about the innovations they're making, the discoveries they're making. Sometimes we even talk about things that maybe didn't go so well, but there's always something to be learned. So I'm excited to bring you a guest that he and I have been talking about having him on for a while and Rodney. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me, Paul. It's my delight to be here.
Speaker 2:So Rodney for those of you who don't know him is the head of Global Revenue, partner and Customer Enablement. That's a mouthful, but I love that they have a thinking about that whole ecosystem. That's as it should be at Force Point. I don't know a lot about Force Point, so maybe, if you don't mind, tell everybody a little bit about you, a little bit about what you do.
Speaker 3:Paul, I'm going to date myself now, but this is my 27th year in the global technology space. I had the opportunity of being hired right out of school by IBM, then over to Microsoft Oracle exactly then. Currently at Force Point and, for those who are not aware, so Force Point provides an all-in-one native cloud platform. Really that simplifies security. So wherever you are on the planet, whether you're using your phone, whether on your corporate network or cloud applications, internal applications, we essentially do data security everywhere you are. So it is a delight again to be on the call today.
Speaker 2:All right, well, welcome, before we get to your topic, which I'm excited for because I'm going to actually let you introduce it, because it's a very unique concept. But before we do that, nobody gets away without having the Jimmy Kimmel Challenge. All right, so you're ready. All right. So Jimmy Kimmel retires next year and through your connections you are offered his show. You can have anybody you want on for your first guest. Who would you bring on, and why did you pick them?
Speaker 3:I would bring on. I even see the setting, literally it's on the beach. Or I tell the who the person. It's on the beach somewhere, literally just having a casual conversation, and his name is Nelson Mandela. I would love the opportunity to hear his journey all the way from childhood. We know that he was incarcerated for like 26, 27 years. Then he became the president of the country. What a journey. So lots of lessons there that I would just love to soak it in. Nelson Mandela is that person.
Speaker 2:I would watch that because I agree with you the adversity that he overcame, the true sense of who he was and his core values and what mattered that could not have been easy to hold on to when everyone around him was trying to keep him down. So, yeah, that would be an amazing interview. All right, so let's get into it. Tell them about what we're gonna talk about today.
Speaker 3:All right. Well, we had a good chuckle previous to the, to the broadcast, yeah, but it's the title of. What we're talking about today is what I call the Tiger cellar profile, and again, I'm dating myself here in old Paul, because the word tiger it came. It actually came from a song from a group called survivor.
Speaker 2:I have the tiger Right, so I remember it, I play in a band and and yeah, yeah, up until I mean for the last couple of years, that was part of our set list. No, I know it very, very well.
Speaker 3:Well, some people out there, Paul, may be wondering what are we talking about? Fair enough, yes. So the tiger cellar profile I I came across it with experiences from others. Again, I didn't necessarily come up with a thought, but in working with others Over time over the last decade or so, one of the things that we have identified clearly is For us to have an effective enablement program in place. That will, of course, enhance productivity, etc.
Speaker 3:It is always a good idea To seek out those individuals who are doing excellent, like every single year, paul, no matter where you put them. You put them in territory a, territory B, all the way you could put them on the moon. Somehow they figure out how to be successful. You just have people like that, and so, for the last three organizations that have been a part of, one of the things that I've always done is to spend the time with those top 10% of sellers to understand what are the skills, the tactics, the techniques, what are they doing? What is it that they're doing that is enabling them to be successful? Right, so that's what this tiger cellar profile is all about an understanding what that looks like, that that set of attributes or set of skills or Competencies, and really and really using that in a profound way within the organization.
Speaker 3:I don't know we're gonna get deeper in it.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, let's, let's start doing that, because in my experience, every organization I've been in either as a seller, sales leader or enabler you have those tiger, tiger reps. Right, I have tiger reps, yep. The challenge often is how do you put that in a box and Be able to deliver it in a helpful way To those that don't have that? So I'm, I, let's just get right into that. No, are you doing that?
Speaker 3:and again. Paul, this is not one of these scientific things that it takes a year and with all kind of no, it really is boiling it down. It really is a just like. What you're having here is a conversation with those top, and I literally go through every single one and I take the time because I know the output and the outcome, and so it throw the conversation. What you're doing is understanding from those individuals what goes on in the day, in a life of those top sellers, and you surprised some of them, some of them, some of the attributes that I've heard, some of them are teachable. If you will, okay or not, let me give you an example At the top of the list that we'll have found out over time, and this is in three different organizations. No ball I've heard the term grit.
Speaker 2:Go get it done Gets thrown around a lot.
Speaker 3:Like hey, man, that's tough to teach. It comes within right, intrinsic behavior that says whatever it takes to win. That's what I'm going to do, of course, as long as it's ethical right. So that's at the top of the list. There are other attributes like territory management when you get your territory, how to pivot that territory, looking at A accounts, b accounts.
Speaker 3:This goes on, but the point being, we really capture that, paul, as best as we possibly can, and then we put a quote unquote box around it, right, and we use that information, not only in enablement because I know you want to get there with regards to enablement but, as we were talking outside of the broadcast, one of the things that we actually do when we encapsulate that and you'd be surprised how similar it is depending on which company you go but once you encapsulate those attributes or those skills and competences, what we can do then is go to HR, go to the recruiting organization and say here's the profile of the successful individuals here at this company right, forcepoint, or whichever company you've been a part of, right.
Speaker 3:So in your recruitment efforts, you may want to look for individuals that actually look like this and check this out, paul, one of the gaps that I've found over time and again.
Speaker 3:You mentioned the term making mistakes, man, I've made lots and lots of mistakes over time, but you learn, you learn as you go along, right, and so one of the things that the good thing is that you can actually seek out those candidates.
Speaker 3:But the other thing is to help our leaders now to be able to. If there's a candidate sitting right in front of us, how can you ascertain if this particular candidate can actually display or they have been displaying these attributes in their day-to-day roles, wherever they are coming from, that you can say, ah, this is a person that will fit, and again, not necessarily 100%, right, clearly, because we live in the real world. But they are able to at least, at a very minimum, 60, 70% of those skill sets, and you can look at teaching the rest for sure. And we haven't even gotten to enablement as yet, right, that's just literally at the HR level. And then, when you get to enablement, now this is where you literally can reimagine your onboarding program so that you are actually developing the skill sets of the Tiger Cellar profile, the TSP, just for short, tsp.
Speaker 2:Is that trademarked? Tsp, tsp, it is, it is.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, that's how you can really do that and I've seen the impact, of course, many other things considering around it, and I've seen real tremendous results in doing this and, of course, there are other areas that you can go down, which is like continuing, yeah.
Speaker 2:So let's talk a little bit more about that step where you're involving the HR or recruiting team, because recruiting doesn't always report to HR. How are you delivering them information in a way that they can use it? Here's what I mean. As good as they are at their jobs, they've never been well, probably have never been sellers, and so you're talking to them about a work environment, and it's very different. I think you'd agree that there's really no other job that's like sales in a number of ways. So how have you found success in helping them internalize that enough to use it in their recruiting?
Speaker 3:Thanks for the question, and what I'm finding over time, paul, is that what they do is not very far from sales, is it? In other words, they are being a recruiter and I'm not a recruiter, but I'm just thinking through their eyes. They're actually selling the company at the same time, right To the Canada, of course, ascertaining if the candidate is a right fit or not. So it is not very far off. And what I do is I spend quality time with recruiters in explaining these key areas, skill set, areas of the top 10, the TSP, right. So I spend quality time doing that and, of course, you'd be surprised at the kinds of questions that they get and like oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 3:And what is interesting, Paul, is that some organizations, they literally have a test that they could do with the candidates and what they have actually done and I think I did this as one or two of my organizations is they actually this is more from a scientific standpoint, if you will they actually looked at the TSP and then looked at their results from the data of those individuals internally and they are seeing the mapping that says ah, that is right, because this person who is always 120%, 130%, they're exhibiting XYZ from their competency model and it maps with the TSP. I've literally seen that, right. So that's your question. Yes, spending the right time with recruiters will certainly help and again, nothing is perfect, right, so they won't get it 100% of the time or get pretty close.
Speaker 2:All right, so back to onboarding. How are you using TSP in your onboarding?
Speaker 3:All right. So, once you have the profile together, one of the things that I've discovered over time and I pause here, paul, because I'm like, oh, I've failed it as many times and so we have learned over time, right, and what we've learned over time is when you're developing the onboarding program.
Speaker 3:What we tend to do quite often is we try to teach them everything all at once. What happens is maybe 5% or 10% of it stays. Here's the approach that we have taken alongside the TSP is, what we've done is to look at the sale cycle and we've said what is it that we are expecting a seller to actually do? Day one? Not day one, but as they got it, you get the point.
Speaker 3:What we have done is we have said, okay, let's segment the onboarding program into two. One is let's focus on getting them ramped in the job that they have to do today once they get in, which is, say, one, two, three, if you will Then, once they start, because their job really is to prospect and to generate new pipe, that's what their job is as they come in. All right, good, if that is the case, then let's ensure that they have the TSP-related skills to be able to generate pipeline. Great, then, what we do. So that's the first half of the onboarding program, then the second half of the onboarding program, and this is probably say six, seven weeks out.
Speaker 3:We get them together again and then, when we follow up with the sale stages four, five, six, depending on your sale stages the latter part of the sale cycle, again focusing on developing the skills for the TSP. At the latter part, things like contracting and negotiating all of those pieces what we are doing is we are combining the just-in-time enablement with developing the skill sets that they would need at that particular point in time that maps to the TSP.
Speaker 2:I'm curious and I would imagine maybe even some listeners wondering this right now. In my experience, you will come across very successful sellers. They fit the description and the profile that you're referring to, but they have very different personalities, maybe even very different backgrounds and sets of experiences. I'm just really interested in you know, and if you've got all these different folks onboarding they're all coming from different places how do you help make that something they can digest and use and understand? Love?
Speaker 3:the question. One of the things that we concentrate on quite a bit, Paul, is the truth is never try to be someone else, Never Great. So a great seller in general will always take their personality to the job right. So these are skills that we're talking about. Again, there are some things that you can't teach. I mentioned it early like great, no, I totally agree, Especially in sales.
Speaker 2:At some point you have to be willing I mean, it's a tough job. You have to be willing to get punched in the face nine times out of 10 in your interactions with people and still keep coming Right 100% Right.
Speaker 3:So let's use examples of passion. Your passion, how you exhibit your passion, is very different than how I would, but it's the same passion at the end of the day. It's the same thing with the TSB, right? So it's not that we're trying to change people's personality. No, we're saying you take your authentic self to the job. Just know that these are some skills that the top 10% of reps here at this company they exhibit day in, day out, consistently in order to, in order to succeed.
Speaker 2:Okay, so someone's completed the second phase of your your, your ramping. It sounds like it's really ramping as much as onboarding in that second phase. Okay, does TSB have a place in the ongoing professional development, or what some people like to call everboarding?
Speaker 3:Oh, it certainly does. Yes, Let me tell you what I mean by that. So, very often, what you can do and this is not the only way, there's so many different ways, but what you can do to help with crafting what your continuous enablement strategy is is to understand the skill sets of the people that you have existing Competence Competency model we often refer to out there, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think everybody was things to money with that.
Speaker 3:Oh, very much so, and so what you can see is, once you've done your mapping, so to speak, or your your understanding of the skill sets that exist off from your existing people, you can potentially see the gaps that exist out there in the field. Now, one of the cautions, because I feel that this poll that's why I mentioned this very quickly One of the cautions I would have for all those who are listening. Take it from you. You have failed quite a couple of times on this. We try to boil the ocean. We try to focus on 10 areas. We can't do 10. We will never have enough resources to focus on 10, but we can focus on two or three.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've read different research over the years that says three is the max, that not even as individuals, even as an organization, at the corporate level, trying to do more than three things, you won't do them well.
Speaker 3:It doesn't work. It doesn't work. And you, you read that piece, live that piece. I'm sure you have to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, oh, I I have. I have been down that road and had to back it up myself a few times, absolutely.
Speaker 3:I'm just going to continue. So please, out there, don't, don't, don't follow our foolish advice. But, anyway, the point being you can focus on one, two or three that you can see that there's a gap that exists in your existing individuals internally, and especially if they map to One of the skills that's our two horse free on the TSP. So you can literally focus on those areas because you know by results. You know by results. These are the skills that, again, the top 10% they execute on a regular basis.
Speaker 2:I have a question about those Tiger, those TSP's. In my experience there in fact I would say this has been, you know, several different companies that there are TSP's that also tend to be lone wolves, yes, and they're actually not doing things the way that perhaps they're even being asked to do them. Not that they're doing anything unethical, but they're just yeah, they just do it their own way and they really don't care who cares and they're way over quoted so they get left alone. We could debate another time whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, but have you run into that and how do you account for that when trying to teach other people?
Speaker 3:Of course, you will always have lone wolves everywhere right Now. What is interesting is what we have found over. Well, I have found in my experience over time you will have individuals like that for sure, but what I'm finding is that that's not the majority of individuals that are out there. Okay, generally you find lone wolves and this is just a broad statement. I could be totally off base but just generally you find them. They have the natural knack or acumen to figure out how to kind of just get it done right. Yeah, but not everybody is necessarily some people. They literally spend the time to develop those skills. Now let's look. Maybe Tiger Woods is Tiger Woods a good example, maybe. So Tiger Woods is naturally good at golfing, but you realize that he spends, he develops on top of those skills to be the Tiger Woods that he is.
Speaker 2:And he's coachable. He recognizes that there is always more to learn.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Thank you very much, and that's great practices and practices, and practices.
Speaker 3:And so what I'm finding is, again, as I said, you'll always have a small percentage that's a lone wolf, and you put that in context. But the rest of the team, generally they are people who absolutely want to succeed and they are very much aware back to your point that they need the additional development to be able to get there like a Tiger Woods, as you indicated. So they have some humility, absolutely absolutely. And the other thing too is willing to share. What I found is that the lone wolves man you're trying to pry the information out, right, and by the time you get to the 15th mark, they're like I'm going to an ex-con, right, they're not willing that much to spend the required time with you, but the rest they will spend additional time, just because they see the greater good of the organization. They see, but of course this is important to them, right, because they're sharing best practices, but they can also envision the fact that this could help someone else just like them in the organization that they're willing to share.
Speaker 2:That's interesting observation, but I think you're right. I think most people do want to come to the work, to their job, and approach it in a meaningful way, and they generally want to see not only themselves but others around them successful. Yeah, I think I've seen that as well. All right, so what else should we know about TSBs?
Speaker 3:There is another level to TSB, paul. I'm not sure we're going to have time, but just quickly. There's another level. So what I just described is level 100. And I've seen the results of that. Essentially at what one organization reducing the time to first deal by like 50%. I've seen that and witnessed that and the good thing is that I had a CRO who supported the notion, the philosophy and, just like Rodney, go do what you need to do with the team, which is great.
Speaker 3:But the next level that I'm embarking on, paul, and I'm in the process of doing this that's why I'm actually sharing this is now you can actually get down to the sales cycle level and then now you can see within the context of the sales cycle. So the TSB level 100, I'm just calling it like this, paul, but the TSB level 100 is broad skills and competencies, tactic, techniques that you would do. Then, when you bring it to the context of the sales cycle, then you can say let's use the example you have five sales stages in your sales cycle. Let's use that. Ok, if you are one of the top percent of reps and I'm actually going through this right now, paul what do you do effectively in sale stage one. What do you do in sales stage two? Again, paul, we know that sales is not a science. It's a science and an art. We understand that. But just in general, how do you execute? What does your day look like? Sales stage one, sales stage two, all the way down to five? We actually document that. Because guess what we want to say, especially if you're in and it's not only in this environment, but especially if you're in a transactional type business where there needs to be a framework and there needs to be volume and velocity, you need to have a more prescriptive method of really taking opportunities and buyers through the buying cycle. But it works otherwise too. But the point being, that's the level 200, if you will know that we are documenting specifically what they do at each stage to be able to win these opportunities.
Speaker 3:One other thing I'll mention very quickly, because I know we're running out of time. The other thing that I want to mention quickly we're good. We're good for it. Yes, one of the other things that I want to mention there, too, is not only what their sales activities are, but with whom. Here's what I mean, paul.
Speaker 3:There's a cross-functional team that supports a seller through their sales cycle and, of course, to the buyer, the buyer cycle. There's a cross-functional team. Yes, you have partners, you have marketing, you have revenue operation that list goes on legal finance, etc. So the question then is for each one of these top sellers, who do you engage at what stage? So let me use the example Sales stage two. Who are your go-to people to help you with ensuring that your opportunities are passing through a sales stage two to transition to sales stage three? Is it SES? Is it just you? Is it with partners? So you get the not only the seller themselves, but you get a wider cross-view of who are the resources that those individuals actually leverage. So that's kind of the level 200 that I'm going through right now, and maybe I'll return and tell you what the result is.
Speaker 2:I was just thinking the same thing. Right, let's get back together when you got level 200 results to talk about and you'll be on your way to talking about level 300. It'll be great. So, all right, Glad to share. This has been a fun conversation. Before I let you go, I want you to have a chance to drop some knowledge on our audience that may or may not be enablement related.
Speaker 3:I have some knowledge here. Paul, Be careful what you're assuming.
Speaker 2:And again, it may or may have nothing to do with enablement, sure, but if you were given the gift of time, travel back and allowed to coach some younger version of yourself, right, maybe right out of uni? Right, some younger version? But the only limitation is you can only talk about one topic. What would you choose to teach yourself?
Speaker 3:The statement comes to mind, paul, vividly never waste a good crisis. Interesting. I remember the very place that I was when that statement was made to me by my boss. At the time I was at Niagara School, never forget it. I was sitting in my boss's office and we were discussing opportunities, et cetera, and there was a particular deal that was going south and not going well. I think we eventually lost the deal, but my boss made the statement, paul, to me and it landed Never waste a good crisis. In other words, a lot of the experiences that we have in life, what I'm finding as I get older. That's why I have these gray hairs here, paul as I grow older.
Speaker 2:Your hair didn't fall out because of enablement frustration Potential.
Speaker 3:What I'm finding is that we learn a lot more, it seems, from our failures than our successes. We take our successes for granted, but when we fail, if we take the time and we learn those lessons, then we won't be as timid as sometimes we are. To just try new things, I tell my team all the time today, not necessarily, no. That's why your question is valid. Don't box yourself in. Be creative. Just blow your head off. Essentially right, and then we'll figure out how we get things out. Because every time I see as a team we get together to put together a particular initiative. No one person's idea is the best one.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so true.
Speaker 3:It's all about the combination and the derivative of others. It's powerful.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that.
Speaker 3:I knew that, paul. I wish I knew that because I wouldn't have been that timid as I am and I'm trying to do different now, but, man, I wish I knew that from before I really did.
Speaker 2:None of us as smart as all of us and, trust me, I did not understand that earlier in my life, my career as well. I had to kind of figure that out over time. But that is great advice. Thank you so much for that. And thank you, rodney, we appreciate your time, we appreciate your energy, just amazing energy you've brought to this. So thank you for that and thank you to all of you who have invested a half hour of your time with Rodney and I. We appreciate you. You're who we do this for and we'll see you in two weeks with another guest and another topic. Take care.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining this episode of Stories from the Trenches For more revenue-enablement resources. Be sure to join the Revenue Enablement Society at resocietyglobal. That's resocietyglobal.
