spk_0:   0:33
Welcome to the teacher coach podcast here at Brooke Point Studios in Beautiful Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio. It's our honor today to have with us special guests Kevin Finn, a froth superintendent of the East Canton school district and a great friend of Scott and myself. Over the years, our son, Salomon, Andrew and Josh, played a lot of youth basketball together, and it was always a joy to watch Kevin on the sidelines as he maintained nothing but composure and class and really represents excellence across the board. I love the way he impacts young people and the way he impacts the school district right now at East Canton as their leader. Kevin Finn, if rock up next. All right, ladies and gentlemen, it is such a pleasure today to have with us not only a really good friend, but even a better person. The superintendent of the East Canton schools, Kevin Finn. If rock Kevin, this podcast is called the teacher coach podcast. Because Scott and I really believe in the model of the teacher, coach and education. Um, but both in the the the philosophy of it, I guess in the literal meaning of being a teacher, coach somebody who's in the building all day grinding through the academia of high school teaching and then goes into the gym or the field and then impacts kids on the on the court as well. That we believe is the highest model off coaching. And when I think about this model, when I think about the teacher coach, it always makes me think I wish I could be more like you. Kevin. Uh, we spent some time coaching together in youth basketball, and I've seen you, coach, and you're probably the most poised and diplomatic coach and personality that I've ever really been around. And I so respect that. But in the many various roles that you've had, where do you see this teacher coach mentality? Kind of fitting in even to what you do today is the superintendent of these can't schools and welcome to the program.

spk_2:   2:29
Thank you very much. T. K and Scott. It is so great to be here. I've got to tell you that so much positive energy. I listen to your podcasts this morning on my run, and I found myself thinking of just what a positive contribution that your work. I think it have an education and athletics in general. And one of one of the reasons why is I feel it, though both of you are at a stage in your career and at a level of confidence that you could share in an open on it an authentic way. And so I just I really I really appreciated that, and that's really hard to do. And I think that that's a progression as a person to get to a point where you could share, be vulnerable and delve into some topics that you guys are doing. So so for that, thank you for doing that. Going back to your question. Yeah, I listened to it this morning of some of your, um, your thoughts on the teacher coach model and I would have to agree with you that that definitely is the preferred. An ideal model is toe have coaches that are in the building that are developing the relationships with kids, and in my mind, I think part of that is number one. It gets the coach an opportunity to embrace the mission of the school district, and I think that that's something that's extremely important. And then number two is, as both of you know, you talk about the grind. You go play an away game on a Tuesday and get home at 10 30 11 and you're dealing with the emotions of that game, and you may or may not sleep very well, but you expect your kids to answer the bound beyond time, for I just think that that's I think that shared, Um, I don't know if you call it sacrifice or what the word is, but just walk along the right alongside the steps of the new nationally set your coaching that it is special.

spk_0:   4:32
Yeah, it kind of reminds me of that footprints poem. You know, uh, Kevin and Scott that I often times will reflect on that home, and I know that God carries us through some adversities, but I often times feel like some of my players or my assistant coaches or a kid in class or a mentor down the hall who kind of came to the game and said, Hey, man, you know you guys will be fine. Don't worry about that loss, but you feel like people carry you through that journey. But you can't really carry somebody unless you're there, you know you can't. It's hard to carry them from afar. And when you when you when you have that shared suffering off being up late Catholic men are late Catholic on a Tuesday night and you got your butt kicked and you drove 62 miles home and then another 22 miles home from there. You're finally in bed at midnight, and now it's 7 a.m. and Warren Period one. Learning about Julius Caesar and Romeo, Romeo and Juliet. It's crazy, Kevin, as the superintendent, Are you able to utilize the skills that I have seen you, um, display so well in actually coaching?

spk_2:   5:37
Well, I certainly try to I don't know, Uh, so what level or to what? Success That that I'm able to do that, but certainly try to. And I think that's one of the, you know, in my professional journey, I rely a lot on the experiences and the things that I learned coaching and and I thought the position that I'm in now that there was a lot of great preparation in terms of dealing with, um, really leading, communicating, working through challenge. Um, you know all of those types of things have been invaluable to make.

spk_1:   6:16
Kevin one of my, uh, teaching and coaching manners, was a former principal of mine at Wadsworth High School, and that's Roger Cramer. And Roger was, ah, Hall of Fame basketball coach. Chicago falls in Barberton High School. And when Roger finally became the Principal Wadsworth High School, he said to me one time being the principal of a school is like being the head coach of three sports at one time. What is it like being the superintendent of an entire school district?

spk_2:   6:51
I I absolutely love it. Um, I feel like I feel like we're all, in some ways trying to find that cross section of fashion and purpose in life. And so for me, I think in this particular role of these camp in that I'm about as close to that cross section of passion and purpose, Um, that I've ever been in some Really. I'm grateful for that and and appreciate that, um, the one unique thing about you can't and uh that I don't know that if I truly realize how important this would be coming into the job that work the only school in Stark County that has K 12 under one group, and the central office is located in that building. So what? What I have found. And to be honest with you and, you know, in the spirit of authenticity in which I complimented you both earlier, you walk into that as a as a as an administrator, you wonder. Well, is that a good thing or a bad thing? That central office is located right by door one. And are you gonna be getting hit constantly with, uh, with issues and fires? But that really hasn't been the case. And what I what I enjoy most about this is that you walk out and you've got 1000 hits. Got an elementary ring wing right adjacent to the office. The high school you can go down to cap here. So what I found What I what I'm finding That brings me energy. And so I'm grateful for that aspect of it. And then overall, it just, you know, certainly with position itself. It's been a positive experience.

spk_0:   8:31
They kept Kevin, you've been a coach on both the boys and girls side, and I want to dive into that later. So obviously you have experienced those nights when you have a great win, you know, and it's almost in a in a way, it's almost like a drug, because that win will keep you going. But it is a good truck because it's not a drug, um, and is just something that it keeps you going for a couple of days, and and it makes you feel redeemed. Like, you know, there's some redemption, like what we're doing is good. And this was a good day. What once a win, what's a win for you is a superintendent, you know, when do you feel like that was a When

spk_2:   9:11
I would say, you know, right now and are maybe I'll give you a couple examples that we're dealing with this help pandemic. Um, you know, I would say our winds are feeding our kids. Yeah, a very basic need that we probably all have have taken for granted. That that the huge win? Um, we're at each cancer of distributing about 350 family meals, the families per week while and so and we're a little bit different, you know, in terms of how we organize that, is that no one on we we do that on Mondays and everything. Volunteerism. And so we did not. There's not one person there that's required to be there a while and so personally throughout this pandemic. I feel like I have a greater sense of appreciation of service learning, and and I'm really hoping personally that as we recover from this, that that becomes, you know, maybe more part of my life. And I knew of service learning from my time at Walsh. But I don't know if I really experience that and embrace that, Um, like I am right now.

spk_0:   10:27
Wow, that sounds like a huge win. Um, well, I want Let's go back. Let's go back to the beginning. I don't know what year it was, but let's say it was around 1998 99 during my free period at Archbishop O been, I drove down to Canton Central Catholic. Don't tell anybody. I probably wasn't supposed to do that. I had just enough time to get there and back, and you were kind enough to give me a VHS tape on CVC A. And when I when I came, you were teaching and coaching at Canton Central Catholic. I believe you were the boys coach and I came to pick up a VHS and you were in the teachers Lounge or the main office and you were using a scan trying to make a test or too great a test. Okay, so that that's where you began in my mind. And then you went through many different roles, both in teaching and coaching. So I mean to me, you're the true teacher coach. Just tell us about your journey, and you could start even as a player. But if you just want to get into your professional journey, tell us about your journey and teaching and coaching. Where did it start?

spk_2:   11:29
Well, first, let me say I never understood why basketball coaches, you know, did all the scouting in the football David exchange tape much more efficient exchange escape. So you were headed. You were out of ahead of your time TK by exchanging takes there, And, uh so for may my my dream initially was to be a college coach. Yeah, and I think part of that was number one. I loved basket and that was my passion growing up. And my mom says, you know, five years old I was playing the game and I was the the offense, the defense, the commentator, the sub. I was just out there and it just, you know, brought me great joy. And so, as as I got into high school and taking college and start thinking of a career, I wanted to be a college basketball coach. And part of that was I loved Duke. And at that time, when I was in high school, Duke was winning national championships. I idolized Bobby Hurley, and in my mind, that was my That was my perception of what being a college coach was was watching bite Shefki on ESPN, right? So I went to college. I majored in education and I thought, you know, perhaps maybe going the high school route I know my high school coach, Doug Miller, was a great influence on father like figure in my life. And so I went. I went that route major in education, and then I was in college coaching for a couple of years, and I learned that it wasn't necessarily what I thought. I was watching Mike Chesky when 90% of its games the national championship I learned about this this whole process of recruiting and, you know, and I wasn't sure if I love the idea of jumping in my car and driving six hours toe watch, Ah, kid, that you may or may not make an offer to, and and I I learned I learned about it and certainly had a couple of great opportunity. And then from there I decided that I would really love to be in charge of my own program and to be ahead. And so I had a great opportunity to do that. When Father Taylor of Louis the principle of Central Catholic, they had an opening that was vacated by person. Both of you probably know dance. Harold, Now the high school principal Lake will stand, had accepted he was the girls basketball coach of Central taught sociology. Okay, Dan, wasn't Lewisville created position. I was very close with Doug Miller, and so I knew and I want you to think about that. You got you gave the example of coaching three sports. So Doug Miller, I don't know for how many years had been closed for 20 years, head baseball coach and head basketball coach, and I still think like how in the world. Is anyone do that? Because But you guys. But by the end of basketball I was fried. I just didn't have anything left in the tank and he's going to start another season. So going, going back to that. So I knew that Doug was probably in the within the next 2 to 4 years with what's going to resign basketball and coach baseball. So when I came to Central, I coach the girls for two years and then coached the boys after that.

spk_0:   15:01
Kevin, what was it like? What was it like coaching girls for the first time? I mean, was that a unique experience for you? Was it one you cherish was the one that was difficulty any any uniqueness is between the boys and the girls side for you.

spk_2:   15:15
Absolutely. The one thing that really sticks out to me was that I don't know what my expectation was in terms of of the players you know, having instant credibility or instant respect. That is not without a work it when my parents and girls basketball like you, had to earn that trust and you had toe earn that respect and so that that was as I reflect on it. That was one that was a learning experience for me. It was that that was a process that that wasn't something that that just happened overnight. But I will say once you earned that, then those girls, they would have done anything for the program and for each other. And so my first year, and I think the other dynamic of it, I think, you know, Dan had done a really nice job, the program that girls were close to him, that it was very difficult on the girls that a coach that they liked move on. So I probably underestimated some of those elements just because I was young and just if you hadn't thought of that, right? But that first year we had, um we had a group of five seniors and made a great run 2141 for the regional finals. And, uh, was just probably one of the highlights of my coaching career. Just because it was just one of those special years, right? Where good kid and, uh, and obviously very successful

spk_0:   16:49
man, I didn't realize you went to a regional final. That's that's pretty special in your first year coaching.

spk_2:   16:54
Well, I need to say that followed that up with a five and 16 year in my second year. Yeah, but the bad.

spk_0:   17:03
You know, I had forgotten that Dan Harold was there. He's he's roughed a lot of our eau games over the years in youth basketball. He's a really good guy

spk_2:   17:12
if he is. And I think he I think in the cut from the same cloth that both of you just lifelong educator and, uh, someone that made a lot of contributions to a lot of different school districts.

spk_0:   17:24
Yeah, so then when you win you over to the boys side, Was that kind of like living your dream? I mean, you played it. Can't Central Catholic. You're probably, um, the best player to ever come out of can Central Catholic unless I'm missing somebody. Or you're one of the few who ever went on to play Division one college basketball a minute. They ever hang a jersey in the rafters, your jersey should be hanging. Was that like your dream to be the Canton Central Catholic boys basketball coach?

spk_2:   17:47
It was definitely was. Definitely. My dream is definitely something that was on my mind when I came back to Central and the reality of it. Waas was I was humbled very quickly, as as head Boys back to ball coach and they, uh, Coach Miller. I mean, he had you had a reputation, for they would play number federally. I'm very, very difficult schedule that would say very similar to, you know, schedule that you play it, hoping TK. And the year prior they were a team, was five and 16 and had lost eight seniors. And so we were my first year. Um, I'll never I'll never forget that because I started dating my wife, Nicole when we were 21 Ford were going out after game parents at the restaurant, and I remember 11 time that season we played ST Tom's. I had all the parents over to the house afterwards, and little client fell to the athletic director. I'm ever looked at me that are you out of your mind? I don't know, like everyone was happy were 21 14 cynical and I started dating 21 4 1st year of marriage is three and 18 and God bless her for for staying with me, I'm sure wasn't Ah, very enjoyable year. But going back, going back to that, so are right out of the gate. Yes, that definitely was a dream of mine to definitely a humbling experience in that I remember our 1st 5 games. We played Canton South, who had Ronnie Burke winnin and went to state on a Friday and then on a Saturday. We followed that up with Perry and then the next Friday, we came back with a Randy Montgomery coach North Canton team and then a Saturday against Lake. And you're sitting there two weeks in the season, your own four, right? And it was difficult. I remember emotionally, lad. I'm not sure that I was ready. I was ready for that. I knew that I knew basketball. What? I didn't What? I don't think that I least in that first year I didn't have the ability or the tools in my toolbox to play different styles and maybe slow the game down, shorten the game, being more competitive, right, but so very, very humbling experience.

spk_1:   20:05
Kevin, if you were mentoring a young coach or an older coach, even what are some things that you would say to him or her. How can you make sure that your kids experience a successful season even if you're not winning?

spk_2:   20:22
I would say I mean, there's a few things that come to my mind immediately is Number one is take care of yourself physically. Um, you know, I just I'm so convinced, not just for coaches to Justin, education in general of the topic of wellness. And I know I talked to when I was going through that, um, that your, uh, Todd Qual check. Who's the head coach of Toledo? I remember he used to tell, but one thing he used to tell me you got extending. Get your workouts and make sure you're running. Make sure you're on that bike. And that was that. Just weather the storm get on. So I think I think that number one is that and I don't think like at that time, And you guys remember when you first get into it like you're young, you're full of energy. You you have a competitive spirit you could take on the world. Um, and you don't know? Sometimes, it seems is not to prioritize that. So I think that's one is the importance of wellness. I think two is, I think, the importance of drawing from experiences of other coaches of talking to people in having a mentor, because I think what that will do is that will that will give perspective and that will help you need and help those kids and then three is, you know, in terms of direct with kids, I think I just think the importance of I've just talking to your kids, just taking the time to talk to him one on one, maybe not about basketball, but just keeping that connection going and trying to find small victories throughout the course of the year.

spk_0:   21:57
And Kevin when I was ah, younger coach, my 1st 5 to 10 years for sure, and I still have issues with this, but you kind of build a natural boundary up between you and your team just to protect yourself a little bit emotionally, or to protect yourself from top, probably from the fear of really hearing what they have to say. Um, and you also think that you have to be in control because you are young, you know you're 22 23 24 25 So you feel like, Hey, I better be up here and they better be down here. Is that something like, Especially if you're losing. If you're winning, Everybody thinks you're great. Like when you were the girls Coast at first year, eight winning hides a multitude of sins, but then, when you're losing, it's really hard. How were you, like relation Aly in your first couple years on the voice side, Where were you there yet? Because when I see you with your youth teams, I know you're there. But I know I wasn't there. Were you there yet? Your first couple years on the boys side?

spk_2:   22:51
No, I don't think so. And I think, you know, we're all a byproduct of our experiences. And so at that time, I was extremely young. I was in my early twenties. I was coming off an uber intense and competitive college experience. So at that time, that's kind of cool, that that's who I was as a leader and who I was as a coach. And so as time progresses, then you have different life experiences that I'm sure, at least for me, I'm sure impact leadership style, leadership, personality and for me. You know, the obvious life experience is for Children. And so at that time, that wasn't a part of my life that now that it is definitely, I would say impact speed today,

spk_0:   23:42
Kevin after can't in Central Catholic boys job. When did you decide that? Maybe you need to take another step in your career.

spk_2:   23:50
I was thinking about it that my final year with the boys I was thinking about it and I had own that were just on a bull. Now we're just starting our family, and I think it. And, uh, I think Josh was three. Mitch was two and the court was pregnant with Grace. And so driving the young town on a Friday night, the scout Campbell, who we may play if we both win two games that was becoming that was becoming stressful and difficult. And I enjoyed. I enjoyed your first segment of talking about the topic of spending more time with your family, and I, you know, I think the relevance of that. But I think part of that, too, is that I think it's difficult for people to let themselves be vulnerable and go into issues of, um, you know the emotional stress, the just feeling like you may just need a break and and you know, what I found at that time was Yeah, I did feel like 12 months, you know, because the season's over it just by the time that you get the banquet organized, you know, Then you have your open gyms, and now you're coming home. And I'm mad because, you know, this started and show up for open gym twice. And now you know, and so you know, those those were those were difficult things. But, you know, I think at that point of time, I think I was just I was kind of just ready for break for something different. Um, you know, which would lead into that depression.

spk_1:   25:28
Kevin, before you talk about the next step of your journey is an administrator. How do you hold on the head coaches now? Because I think your point about there is really no off season for a head coach. You know, when we were growing up and we were playing, we were on our own for the off season for the most part, and then we interacted Ah, with our head coach during our season, but we are head coaches may have coached for 2030 35 years today. That's just not the case. So dependent. A principle. What do you do to support your coaches so they want to stay in the game

spk_2:   26:10
number? The first thing that comes to my mind is I tried to communicate to them how much I appreciate the role that they have and what they're doing for the school district. So I think that it begins there in my mind got I think I heard you say that this morning was kind of athletic to me. And I think this cove in 19 Crisis is really open. Open my eyes, Athletics. To me, it's learning. I don't is that extra crackers? And it's morning and we're in the business of teaching and learning. And so I view these experiences that the kids, yeah, as some of the highest level learning, Um, and and mainly because it gives an opportunity for people to find and connect with their passion. And so I have such a great amount of respect and also appreciation. So that number one is just show that appreciation to the coaches.

spk_0:   27:16
So Kevin What was your first position after? Can't in Central Catholic boys? Coach

spk_2:   27:23
after Central Catholic, I took a position as assistant principal at Green High School On that was my first step into administration. I had had my master's in education administration. I got it right out of college. I really didn't know if that was something that I wanted to do, but I I was gonna be a graduate assistant. So it's either counseling masters and counseling or Masters and administration. So right, I choose administration and felt. Am I pull will give this a shot, right? So I spent seven years at in the green local school with just a variety of positions administratively,

spk_0:   27:58
what were some of the challenges and opportunities of that job as an assistant principal of the high school?

spk_2:   28:04
Well, it was a great it was a great community, and, uh, and one that valued education. The schools. I think the challenge, like for an assistant principal in that position, was with school discipline and the management. I think that just, you know, in the beginning, it's my first my first day on the job. Assistant principal. There's a student that's running out of the school teacher yelling at him and everyone's kind of looking at you like All right, you're you need a soldier. You're supposed to know what to do in this situation too. So So you know, if I found myself the first year, so you got in that situation where you know you're doing the best you can, But people are looking at you like you're supposed to cry. You're supposed to be helping us out in this situation. So I think that I think that the school discipline was something in that particular position. That was difficult.

spk_0:   29:02
Yeah. Did you feel like a law enforcement Asian? At some point, I always feel like that guy falls into the trap of investigating crimes.

spk_2:   29:11
At times. Yeah. Times. I definitely did feel like, uh, like an investigator for sure.

spk_0:   29:18
If you're the Dina students, which, in a way, you kind of were, Although you were just may be called the assistant principal, it almost seems impossible to do that role without being the bad guy. Have you seen people pull it off?

spk_2:   29:33
Yeah, I think I felt I feel like it in the times. Like when you're working through the situation like, if you have a sincere effort to be a mentor, to try toe, maybe make a difference in, ah, make the challenging, situational learning experiences of things like that, I think that it's possible to do in that approach.

spk_0:   29:54
And then you became a building principle after that. Is that correct?

spk_2:   29:58
Yeah, but one building principal went Teoh in elementary route for a few years back a couple years in central offices and, uh, then let me approach university,

spk_0:   30:09
OK, as a building principle, how can you use that? That teacher coach kind of philosophy and what some of the challenges and opportunities there to to be a teacher coach as a building principle, when you're kind of the man, so to speak, or the person the man of the woman,

spk_2:   30:24
I think the you know, your model to teach your coach. I mean, think of this, but you're up in front of your team like you're setting the tone. You probably are the most influential figure in that particular group on culture, and so I think that that translates over to being a building principle like you're up there at the opening staff meeting. You're setting the tone What's your message? What type of culture do you wanna have? What are the goals? How are we helping one another achieve those goals? So I think there's so many parallels in so many similarities between being that teacher, coach and running a program and being a principal in running a school building.

spk_1:   31:13
So a Superintendent Kevin, when it comes to hiring? No. What are the things that you're most looking for in a teacher? And if an applicant has experience is ah, high school or college athlete? Is that exciting to you? Not because he or she played sports, but because of all the things like the intrinsic, um, I guess, gains one can, um it can can learn from those experiences.

spk_2:   31:44
I'm somewhat shifted my philosophy when it comes to hiring and interviews and questions, and a lot of that has been influenced by from the literature of that I've read. We have a process in these camps, and there's three rounds of the top candidate of Final two candidates. I'll interview in my position. By the time they get to the third round. I know that their quarrel flies. I know that their credential. And so let's skip the tell me a little bit about yourself, and so we'll see if there's a potential cannon. We have some open positions here. If they're watching the good get, they're gonna get a great advantage. But what I like to start what I what I want to know in an interview that I want to know your Why, Yeah. Why did you choose education? Why TK? Did you choose language arts and going to go down that route? Just start there. And Simon cynic, uh, authored a book entitled Why? On How Powerful That it So that's That's number one is What's your wife? Number two is And this kind of influenced by the work of Jim Collins and good to great. And what they found in terms of analysis of leaders is that they called it the Level five leadership, the qualities and level five leadership that were human will and humility. So I want to know from a candidate tell me about a time that you you're proud of, that you just showed a tremendous amount of determination and you just kept fighting. And so, you know, those are the types of things that I have found that that I'm looking for candidates and I think they're gonna be highly performing educators.

spk_0:   33:36
Hey, Kevin, I want to step back a little bit because we brushed over Doug Miller, you know? And I think any time you're influenced as a youngster by people, I think it's just I'm fascinated by what we what we gain from others. What are some Nuggets or some kernels that I know? He had influenced you greatly. But, I mean, what are some things that you try to take with you from from being influenced by Doug Miller?

spk_2:   33:57
Well, it's ironic that, as part of you know, the stay at home order, I came across some journals that that coach Miller had his team's keep. We used to have a notebook, and he encouraged us to write a little bit about every practice and every game. And in one particular year after my freshman here, I did it pretty religiously, and I really appreciated the opportunity to go back and to kind of see some of those reflections and experiences. And I can tell you that from those experiences was that like like I remember being in seventh grade and Doug Miller showing up with one of my games and like my heart just was like, I'm like, Oh my gosh, like Coach Miller is in the stand. Wanna play? I wanted a place. So while my brother Doug was in the program and so I was around the program a little bit and so, like that became in my life like I wanted to play basketball at Central Catholic for Doug Miller. And so he was someone that, um the best way I could describe it was that Doug Doug was an extension of my father. He was just, you know, you is someone that you just wanted to do well for. You didn't want to let him down. You wanted to compete with, um, you wanted to fight with them. And I even see this today of these Canton, as is dug in the position of athletic director of Baseball Coast. I will say to this day that one of the greatest gift that anyone has ever given me was by Coach Miller and was simply the gift of believing in me. And I I just remember he believed in me so much and at times probably much more so than I believed in myself, but I I just think that that's so powerful. And, you know, looking back and reflecting on is something that I appreciate. And the other thing that I will say is that Doug was a man of great integrity. He does. Doug never never used profanity. You know, He was always abiding by my rules and regulations. He was always doing things the right way. Um, it so I really appreciate, you know, having an influence in my life of someone of that level of character.

spk_0:   36:24
Hey, Kevin, one thing I really admire about you when I watch you, coach and I have changed, and I try to do this, but I don't think I'm always successful. Uh, you never seem demeaning at all. Like I've never seen you really go off on a kit. You seem very You seem tohave dissident. An incredible amount of composure. And you've coached with us for a while. And you know, I'll blow my top of my son occasionally. Or or I don't lose it very often. But occasionally will. Is that something you got from dunk? I mean, I never saw Doug really being all that I don't want to say demeaning, but you know how it is. Coaching sometimes comes across is demeaning. But I never saw that. I really, really like that. I mean, was he kind of tough on you guys and we just didn't see it? How did he get you guys to rise to your level?

spk_2:   37:10
I think that, you know, to me, as I look back on some of the strength number one, he was not He was not a He was not at the meeting coach. Um, he was an intense coach. He was a demanding coach, but I But I don't recall, like, really getting into a player and really dressing them down. And I remember, um, remember, Well, clients powder saying nets and bulls, you know, those you know, you know, coach football for 40 some years of Central Catholic. I think Doug was cut from the same cloth with that. Never allow a kid walking away down their self worth. Said you could be tough on him. You could be demanding on on the job, but never gonna let I think I think Doug, you know, had that same philosophy. Um, you know, Betty coachable.

spk_1:   37:57
Kevin, Can you talk about than your transition to playing Division one basketball at writer. Um, what kind of coach did you play for their? And how did his style differ from your high school coach? Is Coach Miller's?

spk_2:   38:14
Well, part of the reason I went to Rider number one? They had just made the Empty A tournament. I think a year to so like that was a big deal as a high school athlete of having a chance to play in the tournament. And the second part was that the coach at the time with Kevin Bannon and he was out saying, Maybe is early thirties to mid thirties and there had been talk that he had been rumored. Toe maybe could be involved in Sithole job. So part of my thinking was that boy, if I could go to the program, have a chance to play in the tournament, have a plan, stands to play for a coach that may then go on to get a job and get me into the college drink and in fact, like that's how it turned out because he got the Rutgers job. I think my side at the end of my sophomore year so When I graduated, I spent a year with him as a graduate assistant. So in some ways it worked out. You know very well I kind of what I was hoping for To answer your question. It was it was very different on a number of different level. Uh, and I think to I think at that time I fell in the late nineties and I think that I think coaching in general was different in, like, the late eighties and the nineties. And I think it in the East Coast, some of the baby I think Bobby Knight was a major influencer on other college coaches and high school coaches and people, you know, somewhat reflected that persona. And they saw Indiana program the success, I think in the East Coast, I think Hubie Brown was an influencer who kind of had just a very aggressive um, some could say confrontational coaching style. So when when I went out there, number one Yeah, that was that was that was an adjustment because, um, you know, they just the level of intensity was was very different. And then number two is I'm 18 and I'm playing against a senior who's 22 being scouted by the MBA. So the combination I think of those things, um, you know, made it made it a huge transition.

spk_0:   40:26
Kevin, as you reflect on how all of this has impacted the way you coach today, uh, sorry. The way you utilize the teacher coach philosophy in your profession today, would you Do you think, um, if you could go back in the coaching today? Okay, let's say you let's say it's your retirement job and you get out of being the superintendent in five years. And as a retirement job, you just want to go coach somewhere and be a head coach in a small high school somewhere. How would you get the most out of your kids? What in today's coaching world, how would you get the most out of your kids? Not be demeaning? Try to keep it positive, but yet want to have excellence. Like what? What would your style be after all this wisdom that you get?

spk_2:   41:12
Well, you know, I'll make some comparisons of Coach both of Coach Josh. You know, since we got together, I don't know what When. When are one of that Third grader 4th 4th grade. Jackson. You know that's been a number of years. And Coach Mitch, I'll tell you a funny story. When I took the position at each canton, it was about I accepted. It was the anything about 11 p.m. And Josh was an eighth grader. And they Josh, I just took this job at East Canton, and he's got that look of disappointment on his face and he says, Does that mean that you're not gonna be able to coach this year? And that really had a profound impact on me? And he followed that up with What does that mean? That you're not going to be around very much? And so I really took it to heart at that moment. I remember sitting on the couch thinking to myself, Or did I? Did I screw this up that I make the the right decision? Um, I knew how important that was, and I think it means they can answer your question if I going back. And I guess maybe this is kind of how I approach it now is that you know what's the mission? Like what? What? The purpose of your leadership and what are you trying to accomplish as a program and put that at the forefront, right? Not only for the members of the team but also for yourself. That's going to help guide you as you lead a navigate certain situation and communicate that appearance into the kids into that. So what's the mission? What are we trying to accomplish? And then from there, we're gonna sex roles, and we're gonna just relentlessly go after them and compete on a daily basis, and we're gonna have fun doing it. And we're gonna grow together as people, as players and and just look for things that motivate us. I can say I really enjoyed coaching or I enjoy now coaching at that's like eighth grade seventh grade, because in my mind, I feel like you're better able to kind of flush out some of the things that high school coaches have to deal with in terms of cuts, in terms of maybe unmet expectations of playing time. Our criticism, you know, fairly or unfairly. Yeah, I don't feel like like it just seems pure to me, and I think you know that I have really, really enjoyed that fortune. Other Could you bring that type of approach and purity to a more competitive level on a high school level and sustain it and good consistently. I don't know, I know, but that's out. That's what I would. That's what I would try it. That's what I would attempt to do much. Would you be able to sustain that at a more competitive level, like a high school varsity? Um, like ice remorse with bubble?

spk_0:   44:12
Yeah, I actually think you could. I really dio I think there's a model for that out there. I think the feelings that you would have, what would change because there are some pressures. But I think you could do it before I wrap up. Kevin want 11 ingredient that I really like that you do with the kids. And one, I think James both start. Maybe told this to me one time when I was sharing something with him at the end of practice, maybe up home or whatever I said he was only yeah, way had that one in coach fender frocks pre practice thing. Is there something that you do? Get the guys before practice where you share something with him?

spk_2:   44:44
We always try to start his practice with a quote of the day and or just a thought of the day. It's just something that kind of help motivate the players something for them to reflect on. Maybe something for the team of goal or something like that. And, uh, you know, those were probably the times that I enjoy most because at that point you're trying to shape and mold character. And, uh and I think that's great to hear that James remembered some of those things. And I and I also remember one of my favorite memories about going back to the reference the gurus of going just for those listening. That was an AU team started by, uh, TK and, uh, and Scott and so our sons were the same the same age, and we had a great experience. But I also at the end of those days of they say something positive about your teammates. And what a great way that WAAS, the kind of you know, just put closure on a game to in a healthy and positive way, deal with whatever emotion that we're all dealing with and that we could all walk through or we could all walk away with some type of gratitude and appreciation for others.

spk_1:   46:03
Kevin, I just gotta thank you because it's faras the maturation of my own son who got to play for you. Um, one of the things that you did for him issue believed in him and that, you know, that makes me emotional even to say, But I think that that's what your sense of integrity in your your why just believing in kids makes you the special teacher coach that you are. So I appreciate you for that.

spk_2:   46:36
Thank you very much. Got I appreciate that,

spk_0:   46:39
Kevin. I think composer and class really sums you out, and I have to concur about this. You Ohio coaching. I mean, I don't know if I've ever enjoyed coaching any team more than I did my son See Wyo. Third through eighth grade, and I think it's because you really you care if you lose, it does hurt a little bit, but you don't really care that much. It's it's kind of the experience, and it was so much easier to stay positive with that group because there aren't the outside factors and pressures of having to please everybody. We had eight kids on our team, and I knew I could always get all eight in. It doesn't mean that we didn't have any issues. I think out of all of my six years, I got one tiny email, you know, actually, in 16 years of C Y o coaching, I only had one email that was even close to negative. So that's how bad. That's pretty good. But, man, that was so much fun. That was so much fun, and you could be so positive there. And I tried to take that over to my high school experience. But Kevin, I'm gonna wrap up with this and again. Thank you for modeling composure and class to me because I honestly, I want to be more like you when I coach. I just love how you have that demeanor on the sidelines of nothing but composure in class, and I concur with everything that Scott, that's that Scott sad. I know my son always felt empowered when he played with you for you, and you know, kids will either fear us. They'll feel us a sense of fear, or they'll fear, feel empowered by playing for a certain coach and when they feel empowered in that sense of belief that you mentioned. That's really special. So I got to wrap up with this. What is your retirement dream

spk_2:   48:16
job? Well, keep my my youngest daughter, Caroline, my youngest daughter, Caroline, in second grade. Question. The short answer is, I don't know the, you know, having this discussion. You feel a certain energy around everything that you know is good about the teacher coach model. That's good about athletics and education. And so my youngest daughter is in second grade. Caroline and Grace is in fifth grade, so you never know you never. You never know so well. They

spk_0:   48:56
Kevin.

spk_1:   48:56
Kevin, what's when you think you're out? They pull you back in.

spk_0:   49:03
Evan, is there? Has there ever been a superintendent who's been the head girls basketball coach anywhere that you know off?

spk_2:   49:09
Well, yeah, only, ah, Hall of Famer Tom David at each camp in who had, uh, to the court named after him 624 wins and, uh, made great contributions to the Canton community.

spk_0:   49:24
He was a superintendent, huh?

spk_2:   49:25
He was super attended the stories I and I had a chance to meet time at a football game, but the story. He was the girls basketball coach. He was the principal. Super 10 in position came open, and, you know, he wasn't quite sure. And, uh, I think I'm sure that that was a condition that he had for him to accept that job that he continued to coach. Would the condition step that position?

spk_0:   49:47
Absolutely well, Kevin, I know your time is precious. As the superintendent of East Canton schools, I wish we could keep prying into this because I love it. But off the gift of belief and composer and classes what I take away from this so many great nuggets. I'm gonna have to rewind it myself and and dig into this. I'd love to talk to you maybe one other time about youth coaching and a AU coaching, but I think we'll cover that one some other time. Um, for Scott Callahan and TK Griffith This has been the teacher coach podcast with Kevin Finn. If rock