#141 - MNML Golf: Sam Goulden

MNML Golf, founded in 2020 by Sam Goulden, emerged as a revolutionary brand in the golf industry with a focus on innovation, sustainability, and minimalism. The company’s mission is to create high-quality, functional golf products while prioritizing environmental responsibility. Goulden, a former college golfer and golf instructor with over 20 years of experience, conceptualized MNML Golf after being inspired by a sticker in an Indonesian bathroom. This moment sparked the idea for a modern golf bag brand that would blend utility and simplicity with cutting-edge technology.

MNML Golf bags are known for their lightweight design, durable construction using recycled materials, and eco-friendly features. For instance, the MR1 model incorporates recycled ripstop fabric made from 40 plastic bottles and includes innovative elements such as magnetic closures, solar-powered phone chargers, Bluetooth speakers, and thermal-lined cooler pockets. These features cater to the needs of modern golfers while reducing environmental impact. The bags are designed to be minimalist yet functional, offering a sleek aesthetic and practical storage solutions.

The company also emphasizes sustainability through initiatives like its trade-it-forward program. Customers can trade in old golf bags for discounts on MNML products, which are then refurbished and donated to underserved junior golfers. MNML Golf has already contributed hundreds of bags to youth programs.

Operating from its headquarters in Redondo Beach, California, MNML Golf fosters community engagement through open spaces where customers can interact with staff. With a commitment to continuous improvement and customer satisfaction, MNML Golf represents a forward-thinking approach in the sporting goods industry.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Sam Golden
• 5:55 Why Listen to This Podcast
• 16:03 Finding Motivation and Book Club
• 28:31 Paul's Heart Attack and Career Change
• 38:09 Sam's Entrepreneurial Journey
• 49:35 The True Cost of Running a Business
• 1:01:54 Building an Authentic Brand
• 1:11:56 Puerto Rico and Finding Purpose
• 1:18:12 Future Products and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Paul: 0:35

What's up guys? Welcome to the Behind the Golf Brand Podcast. This week I have probably one of my closest friends in the golf industry. He's much better looking than I, am in much better shape and much tanner, but we bonded. I would say february 2020. It was like a brother from another mother, like no joke. There's probably like three people in the industry. I'm just close to um, so I'm really excited to have my good friend, sam golden, on the show. He's like one of my favorite people and we are good friends. So welcome to the show, wow that's.

Sam: 1:10

That's a lot, paul. I feel the same way, uh, thank you. Thank you for having me on the show.

Paul: 1:16

Let me tell you something. This guy is such a good dude. Okay, this, this kind of duty is for real. Straight up, like three years ago, was like, let's go make a video at minimal. So I went out to minimal when I flew out there, right, and you pick me up at the airport and we're just going to shoot a bunch of stuff together. This dude doesn't tell me this. Okay, so he gives me his apartment, which I didn't know he was doing, and he's staying at his own club, which I didn't know he was doing, and he's staying at his own club, which I didn't know he was doing that either, until the next day. And I was like, oh, you stay at your girlfriend's. He's like, no, I stayed at the club and I was like wait, what? So essentially, he gave me his house, his one bedroom apartment on the beach, so I could stay there and make content with him. Who does that? That's, who does this guy right here?

Paul: 1:58

that's why he's wow wow, I love you too and then I got the water and I couldn't even surf, so I just have to film him and campbell surfing. And then we got the breakfast. It was the best. That was the best. That was a fun time.

Sam: 2:13

Remember that yeah, we have to just do it again. Let's do another like uh, fast forward to 2025 and we'll do that. Well, we were just talking about this. Why should somebody listen to this podcast today? Do you want me to answer that question?

Paul: 2:30

You can answer that it's my show.

Sam: 2:32

What are you? An interviewer you answer. Wait, who's supposed to answer it? I don't know. I'm going to ask you, then why should someone listen to this podcast today? What's the point? Why should they stay on for this three-hour podcast that we're about to do?

Paul: 2:46

Three hours. I don't know I think you're going to hear it why are you having me on this podcast?

Sam: 2:55

Why am I here?

Paul: 2:57

PR Fair.

Sam: 3:01

It's good for the brand, for sure.

Paul: 3:02

All right. So Sam hasn't been on the podcast in like four years probably and we talk probably twice a month, I would say at least um, and they have stuff going on that I want to talk about because I'm really excited. They've grown a lot since the first time he was on a lot, a lot um, and sam has moved too, so we can talk about that um and also just talk about kind of what it's really like to do this like what do you think so do you want?

Paul: 3:35

to talk about your stuff, or how will you?

Sam: 3:37

I'll go with you right now well, I think for me, like you know, we were talking about this earlier but I I listen to podcasts. I mean, I have like a couple different podcasts. I listen to a surf podcast that I really like, and then I listen to like business podcasts. It's like all I listen to, and the surf podcast is once a week, so it's like 90% business podcast and I want to my podcast. I want to learn something that's going to add value to my life and for the most part it's like business stuff, but sometimes it's like health stuff too. You know, it's like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Paul: 4:11

So like.

Sam: 4:12

I don't know how much I can help in the health stuff, but I can definitely share some experiences that I've had in minimals, like you know, growing into a toddler phase, and also maybe like my learning of like how YouTube, to start a YouTube channel and turn that into a golf instruction platform and the clubs, like there's a bunch of stuff that I've like found myself doing in the last uh, in my adult life. Uh, and if I could be helpful there, like I, I, um, you know, maybe somebody is like thinking about starting a business, or they're like have already started one and they've got questions, or maybe they're thinking of like quitting their job and being like we did I'm over it.

Sam: 4:55

Yeah, like I mean I don't know, I guess it's like really hard because I don't know.

Paul: 5:00

I quit law, bro, the fricking school, like I mean mean to me.

Sam: 5:05

That's what I can give like some insight on why I quit real jobs and started jobs that relied solely on me While you did. You can share that too, and then how I'm making it work sometimes and how.

Paul: 5:22

I oh, you always had to adapt.

Sam: 5:25

I mean yeah, I mean I think adapting for me like probably the most influential thing that happened to me when it comes to my god there's. There's like so many over the years, but one that really sticks out when I was really young, like 24, my gm at my golf course. I was a teaching pro and the GM there was in St Louis at Wolf Hollow Golf Club in Washington, missouri, and the general manager of the golf course and I were going to this PGA section, which is like these, where teachers and club pros go, everybody in khaki pants hangs out 100%.

Sam: 6:00

I had my best dockers on and my navy blue sweater. You gave your papers percent, like I had my best dockers on and my navy blue sweater, and uh, and now you go yeah, I've got all my stuff.

Paul: 6:10

and I really took those seriously, though, because I like I was so, yeah, you wanted to be a professional like that was your thing and so the.

Sam: 6:16

But we left and we're driving home from this thing and the gm, if I'm remembering correctly him probably not like what I remember is he said you know, sam, you could be that someday. And I was like what? And he was like teacher of the year, pga teacher of the year. And I was like what?

Sam: 6:35

Like this guy who I the biggest golf guy I know directly, he's like my GM, he owns a golf course was saying to me, me 24 year old Sam, you could be the PGA teacher of the year someday. And I was like he listed maybe a couple of reasons like you know, you've got the, you're good at it, you like it, you love it, you can tell you're passionate about it. You could be that someday. So that was my immediate goal. Then it was almost like oh, I could well, then I have to. Now I, I have to become pga teacher of the year. So that became my like direct goal for four or five years, not until I started like wanting to compete. That was like the most pivotal thing that happened to me was somebody else was like you could do this yeah, somebody believed in you, but you were like wait, wait a minute.

Sam: 7:22

Yeah, that's it. That's it Exactly. Somebody who I really trusted, believed in me enough to say that to me and I I believe them. You know I don't think anybody can say that to you, but if somebody you trust says that to you and they've got a good reason to know that you can do it, then, like I couldn't say this to the audience, right, paul, I couldn't be like, hey, everybody out there if you're listening right now, you too can do it. Like I don't know you well enough to say that millions of listeners I only know, like you know me and I and maybe somebody in your life could do that for you and it's potentially even worth a question. Like some people don't just like walk around handing out gifts of compliments, maybe you have to ask somebody like hey, do you think I could ever be this?

Paul: 8:07

and you might find that somebody who you trust, who has the authority to tell you that answer, might say yeah, I think you could yeah, I think I think it's like it's hard because I think like people don't know what you see is not how, like it's not as easy as it looks Right. And when you see what you see and I think when it comes to like athletes or you know YouTubers or whatever it is like you see the reward right, you see where they're at, but like it was a long ass road to get to there and yeah I mean, and you, I have a very close friend of mine who's a big youtuber and it's not all that great either once you're that big.

Paul: 8:57

You know what I mean. Like you think, oh, I'm making millions of dollars, but it's like, yeah, but you're also. Is it as cool as you thought? Is it as fun as you thought? You know, like I don't know.

Sam: 9:08

Yeah, I think that's why I think the podcasts are so valuable and, like reading books is really valuable. It's why everybody at minimal I know you know, paul, this, but most people probably don't know that everybody on our team reads a book every month together. Yeah, they have a book club.

Paul: 9:24

Like legit, regardless of where they're at, and they have a meeting to talk about the book. Yeah, every week.

Sam: 9:31

we spend half of our weekly meeting talking about the book we're reading. This is the book we just read Dude. This is so cool, Paul, so not this book.

Paul: 9:39

I had my law firm. I had that book when clients would see that they'd be like what? The fuck I'm like yeah, I swear to God, I got that book.

Sam: 9:47

Yeah, bitch no but what I was going to say is the book club is so sick. Okay, multiple reasons. I could go on about the book club forever. Number one the reason we're talking about it right now is because I think it's really valuable to see the stories of other founders and entrepreneurs and stuff, so you can know, as a founder and entrepreneur, that what everybody else went through. Nike didn't make money for X amount of years and was hyper leveraged on millions of dollars. At one point definitely refinanced and mortgaged the house multiple times. Like Nike, phil Knight, that book Shoe Dog was like massively instrumental in helping not only me but our entire team understand what it looks like to be a company. I don't even think people who work at companies know what the company's going through.

Paul: 10:39

They're just like doing their job or like seriously, like I don't know, like, unless you're an owner, or you're, or it's a small enough company where the owner shares what's happening. I don't know. They're just going there for eight hours, dude, they're out and they should Like.

Sam: 10:54

I really think everybody should understand, like, what makes the company successful. So like it all comes back to why anybody does what they do. And I do minimal for my own personal reasons. And I remember pretty early on the reason we started the book club was because I was like I'm so passionate about this, like I cannot make a bag that sucks. I cannot like when a customer complains about the product. They have some issue with it. It gives me like pain. I'm like, oh god oh, it's personal.

Paul: 11:27

Yeah, it's personal because it's personal no, really exactly right you don't realize that either, right like as well as a customer.

Sam: 11:34

Probably most customers don't real I mean, maybe not all companies do have someone who it hurts personally to hear that your product sucks or it didn't work. But but I think for our company it was like me and five other people. Right, it's always been like us, this kind of small little group. And there was someone in our company who was like Sam, why are you so motivated, like I'm trying to find motivation for me, why are you so motivated? And I was like, dude, great question. And then I was like, well, you know, I've read all these books and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, maybe if you've read all the same books I've read, you'll also be motivated.

Sam: 12:09

So the first like six months of our book club was me rereading my favorite books with the rest of the team. So we read. We read Shoe Dog, which actually I think maybe came a little bit later, but we read Let my People Go Surfing, which go surfing, which is, like I think, probably most, it's definitely the most influential business book that I've read and that our team has read. Let my people go surfing for those who don't know is the founder of patagonia. It's kind of like his story, his, his methodology and brand building and, um, really, really cool book. If, if, uh, if you want to see, well, I think I just would love for everybody to know the stuff that's in that book, because it talks a lot about how bad for our planet producing products actually is. So when I read that book I was like, okay, I need to find a way to produce products that are good for the planet. That's why minimal is for the player for the planet. So our whole team reading that book now our whole team is like, oh, I get it. Now I get why Sam is making the bags out of recycled material. I get why we have the trade it forward program. I understand why this is important and that's like one, exactly One tiny little segment of like our business and why we do it in that book.

Sam: 13:39

Then we read Shoe Dog and then it was like, holy shit, companies like Nike have once almost failed, so it and like I would remember hearing people like, dude, is this company like going to fail or whatever. They weren't saying it out loud, but I kind of sensed that it felt maybe like that. So when we read Shoe Dog and everybody learned that like every company goes through these cycles of ups and downs and positive months and making a month, and blah, blah, blah. Then it was like, okay, now these guys understand this. And then we read the Lululemon founders story, which is really, really good, and yeah, so we read all these books to help everybody on the team understand what it's like to be a small business and maybe a huge business. That was once a small business.

Sam: 14:22

But then this book, this book uh, I actually wasn't that interested in reading it. But one of the kids on our team this, this kid, jackson, who was like our shipping. We hired him to like ship bags. He would come in at like three o'clock bag, put labels on all the boxes that were going out that day, set him up for the ups guy and ship him out. That was jackson's job. Then, like golf season came around, he got too busy, and so we're like all right, jackson, you got to go play golf, we're gonna have axel do this now, and so we didn't like fire him or anything, but like his golf season was gonna get in the way of the shipping schedule. So nothing, no, no big deal, and he stops working for minimal and a couple years later I later I get a text from him. It's a picture of this book and he says hey, sam, if you haven't read this book, I'm halfway through it and I'm loving it.

Sam: 15:13

I never would have read a book like this if it wasn't for minimal golf's book club and I was like, oh dude, that's so sick. This 17 year old kid is reading books that like you know, and so. So that's another thing that I think is really sick. It's like, well, whatever, that's just a side side note to like the program, the, the book club thing that we do. But yeah, I think, um, the books that we read help us to understand that. It's not easy sometimes and it's not like. Could I remember meeting people and then being like oh, sam, you're the owner, and I was like don't act, like that's freaking cool, like that's the nar, that's sucks right now. Yeah, I'm the owner, I'm the guy the factory calls when the you know the payments do. I'm the guy that like has to make sure that the delay in shipping, or they fuck up the order, or yeah, I'm not right.

Paul: 16:14

It's like the buck stops with you. Like, yeah, I'm the one that has to solve that problem at the middle of the night because it's yeah, yeah.

Sam: 16:24

So I think like, yeah, I really do think like that. What like what you said? Paul is like super dead on. It's not what it looks like. I remember thinking like the founder of johnny o must be rich, and this was in 2009. I was like competing full-time and teaching some lessons on the side and I was like, oh, maybe these guys will give me free clothes to wear in my tournament. So I email the guy and I'm like, hey, johnny, oh, my friend from st louis also knows you could I get some free stuff? And he was like, I'll get, I'll get you some stuff. But like he kind of like alluded to the fact that it wasn't like easy or like it's not like yeah yeah, yeah yeah, but I just like I thought, I don't know, I thought the same thing.

Sam: 17:09

I thought all these companies who are putting stuff online and selling stuff online must be millionaires. They all must be millionaires. They like just I don't know, like basic assumption, they must be millionaires, even like minimal, like nearly did a million in revenue in 2022. And it was the first year that I paid myself and the whole year I paid myself, I think either paid myself, starting in June $5,000 a month. So I think June, july, august, september, october, november, december, so seven months, $35,000. We did a million in revenue 991 000 in revenue. You're allowed to get paid, dude. That's how it works always.

Sam: 17:51

But I'm not complaining about like for sure I'm not. I hear you, dude, but it's like, this is true, stuff like, dude, I would love. I mean, that's why we read the books, because it's amazing to hear that phil knight and his wife, who had they had kids they had to like put their house against a loan to keep Nike alive. And now Nike, you know, and this was not like year one, this was like year eight or nine or something. It was like I just don't think.

Paul: 18:21

I think I don't think people realize and I don't say the public or anything like that but even like media or influencers or fill in the blank right, like what they do say has can hurt a brand that might, may or may not even be that successful. You know what I'm saying Like you can't, you can't like throw a someone under the bus to give good publicity yourself. You know what I mean and I've seen it now and I've heard it from other people, other founders and CEOs of people doing that, and it's like I never did that Right, I was like you know what, if something was fucked up, I would just. I was like you know what, if something was fucked up, I just wouldn't review it. I'd be like you know what, I can't. This is hard. I told brands that, but I don't know. It's like.

Paul: 19:11

I think another brand I'm not going to name who's very big, I'm friends with their CEO also and I remember the first time he said to me he goes. He was really busy talking to somebody at the PGA show, so I was like, oh, never mind, I thought. And then, um, so I started walking away and this guy like taps me on the shoulder and I turn around. It's him. You know all these people surrounding him, right, and he's like paul, paul. And I was like, oh my god, you know my name. I'm like what's up, dude? I mean I knew, we knew who I was, but he's like you know what he said and I'll never forget this he goes. He's like what did he say? He goes, of course I know your name. He goes. I trust you with my babies. That's what he said. I trust you with my babies Because, like everything, he creates it right, just like you, it's your baby. For years, right, he's been sending me stuff.

Paul: 19:58

So it's like yeah, dude, I read every one of those Like that's my thing, I made that, you know what I mean Like even though I made a thousand of them or 10,000 of them, like, and it's like you don't forget that, and I think especially when you're a brand.

Sam: 20:11

I think that's why this podcast like when we were talking and trying to figure out, like why people should listen to this thing I, I don't know. It's definitely something that a customer, and myself included doesn't always see that there's a real person. Usually there's a real person, many, many real people right, sometimes like hundreds of real people.

Sam: 20:37

Yeah, people trying to make this right um, and like stitch is a great example. Like, dude, that golf bag is a great golf bag for so many reasons. And it got the worst review ever from uh, from the uh, the owner of my golf spot. Right, he was like, he was like I can't recommend this bag to anyone. And I was like that's so harsh dude. Like, okay, Number one, did their zippers break on a bunch of bags? Yes, but like, were they trying for that to happen? Did Stitch say like oh, we're going to screw customers over by making bags? No, they didn't know. They definitely didn't know that they were breaking until the bags were out there in real life getting used by a bunch of customers. And at that point for Stitch who I guess that year, probably last year, probably sold like 30, 30 000 golf bags, their bags cost landed probably like 70 bucks. So do 30 000 times 70, think about how much money they had invested in those golf bags and dumping bags though, because what they selling them like?

Paul: 21:41

I've never seen a costco and I was like oh wait a minute I mean.

Sam: 21:44

But this is also just a sad. Sad like when I see that I feel bad for the people who are running the company. Oh, yeah, because, yeah, because, dude, like if they're selling bags at Costco I don't think they're selling to Costco.

Paul: 21:57

I think they sold to a wholesaler and the wholesaler was like all right, I'm going to sell to Costco. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Sam: 22:01

Maybe so yeah, but I mean, there's just so many things that have to occur for, like, a company to be in that position where their stuff is at Costco, and I don't think.

Paul: 22:11

I'm just saying if it's planned, right.

Sam: 22:17

If you're making $300 golf bags and they're $129 at Costco, you're crying.

Paul: 22:22

Yeah, because you probably sold it for $30 or $20 to a whole. There's no way.

Sam: 22:26

There's no way.

Paul: 22:27

Yeah, you're just like you're getting like pennies back on what you spent which is terrible, unless you had overstocked so much that you were it's like last season and you had so many bad. I don't really. I have no idea.

Sam: 22:38

But you still paid for them. You know you still. You still paid for it being. Warehouse them, warehouse them, do that deal, pay somebody, whoever did that deal with costco. So anyway, at the end of the day, I think, like what you said, for people like you or for people of influence to make blanket statements about companies or about products I I know that many know that they have that power, but like it's, it's super gnarly, like I think you could end. End a company. I know that. That uh reviewer. I used to watch a lot of uh, marcus um he reviews a bunch of yeah yeah yeah, dude, he, he can.

Sam: 23:20

He can bury a company and like I'm like he's gonna review our bag someday because he's a tech guy and he's a huge golfer like one of these days.

Paul: 23:27

I heard too, he's like a huge.

Sam: 23:28

He's huge in the golf now somebody told me, somebody told me that we might have. Yeah, but uh, dude, he's gonna review our bag at some point because it's a tech product in the golf space. Like he'll review it or he's already seen it and he's like I'm not gonna review it because I passed.

Paul: 23:46

Yeah, but like or maybe he's like, I'll wait till it's like, better I'll give him another year to use it and then not review it because, like he would not like, why would?

Sam: 23:56

he doesn't. Maybe he doesn't feel like his audience wants to see it.

Paul: 23:58

You know what I mean about a golf bag. Like probably 80 90 of those guys are not gonna want to watch that video fair.

Sam: 24:04

But like if he came out and was like, oh you know, like the solar power bank could be better, or like whatever, if he gave it any any flaws, he could give anything a bad review and it could just like could end a company man, I feel like, yeah, so anyway, those people have so much power and I think they get catered to a lot by big brands because of that power. But at the end of the day, we know that minimal knows that our relationships are going to be the thing that will save us from being treated like come on, we're not humans. Yeah, exactly so. Like Paul, you would never say something bad about minimal in public because we have a relationship. You might come to me personally and say like hey, dude, I thought you should have done this with your last bag or whatever. You know, like you would share things with me. You wouldn't badmouth us in public.

Sam: 24:58

And I think our customers feel that way too, for the most part because we speak to so many of them. Like we real people talk to them. I talk to them my phone number's on the checkout page, like I talk to a lot of people and they don't even know they're talking to me. They're just like, oh hey, I got a question for you guys. And then I'm like, do, do, do, do texting back, you know. And they're like, how does the customer work?

Paul: 25:17

And I'm like, oh, here's the link to the page Like do you have any questions? My name's.

Sam: 25:23

Well, I'm on just my phone, my phone number is just straight there. But I'll be like my name is Sam If you have any questions, and they'll be like okay, thanks, sam, my name is Chris. They don't know. They're talking to the founder, which is totally fine, but they are talking to a human, at minimal, and if they do have a problem, they can talk to us now about that problem, whatever that problem might be Shipping gets delayed or whatever oh, I like that.

Paul: 25:47

That's the opposite. Amazon. They've lost so much, so much my stuff that I've sent in they've lost it. And then they're like oh, you have to prove, I know I have to build, like I know they received it right. They go past that and they go. You have to prove that you bought it from the manufacturer and then send back to us. I'm like but you received it so from me, so why do I have to show you how I bought it? Like it's almost that it's so illegal what they do. And it's like do I have that time to chase down those, those units right to like try to get my money back or I just write off as a loss. You know what I mean.

Sam: 26:22

Because, like, yeah, probably what they hope is that you just write it off.

Paul: 26:26

Yeah just write it off. It off Like whatever. I don't have time, yeah, but you just want to choke them out Like oh, let me pass it on to my supervisor, oh great.

Sam: 26:36

Dude, that's a really good point too. Like the stuff you have time for as a CEO or as a founder or as a company owner, like how to manage what you spend your time on is so ridiculous. Like I like I said I text customers. Like if I get a text from a customer right now during this podcast, I'm gonna answer it and just be like hey, I'm on a podcast right now, I'll text you in like half an hour I never started doing it.

Paul: 27:03

To the fuck around. Stop, I'm gonna text you.

Sam: 27:08

I want a custom bag, please but like I, so I've placed that as that, as one of the most important things for me at this stage in minimal's life is to communicate with the customer.

Paul: 27:20

Communicate with I always felt like for me, how all this came about was so random. You know what I mean. Like this is, this is a hobby, right, so like I had a full career, I had a really good career and like to do something fun is cool. But like everyone's, like, well, I focus on a lot of different things, but for me, my I feel like my biggest, what I enjoy the most is the relationships with the people I've become friends with Like I. That's what I enjoy. Like it has nothing to do with golf. Golf is just the excuse, you know, but I met some really, really cool people that I become really good friends with, right.

Sam: 27:58

Yeah, but like I think about that, like you're, you are you comfortable talking about why you had to like leave your day job or like why you chose your day job so like I'll like lead you into it, like you were pretty unhealthy, like you were gonna die probably yeah, I mean I, yeah, I had a heart attack when I in 20 2020 while running so then you're a lawyer and I was lawyer and I was doing the.

Paul: 28:23

I wasn't. I had just started the podcast, and I had just started the podcast and I had just started YouTube and I had the website. I was doing all that. See, I was a dumbass. I always tell people this, too. I was back to work two weeks later as if nothing happened.

Sam: 28:39

You had a heart attack and you were like, hey boss, I'll be back as quick as I can.

Paul: 28:44

No, I didn't even care, they didn't even make me come back. I just felt so guilty for not being there. I had quick as I can, I didn't even care, they didn't make me come back. I just felt so guilty for not being there and I had like 50 cases. I was running and like my clients needed me and like I just went back to work. It was like as if literally nothing happened, like and I was, I feel like complete shit, but I still went back to work, dumb, like if your body's telling you like yo, you need to chill out, like that's when you need to chill out. How?

Sam: 29:04

long did you stay as as uh? How long did you stay a lawyer after your heart attack?

Paul: 29:10

two more years? How? When was that? Because I remember having this conversation I practiced two more years. I practiced full-time for two more years and then I I mean, I still have my license, I can still practice. Right now I'm not practicing.

Sam: 29:22

So I went like I'm still a member of the bar but but you I remember having this conversation You're like dude, like uh, I'm not healthy and like I think I want to like go full time, like doing this other stuff. But you were still. You were still like lawyering full time and all this other stuff on the side. How long did you do that before you were like okay, I got to quit.

Paul: 29:51

Two years, two years. So you had a hard time. We're telling you. I told brandon over a true and a couple, like a couple people, ronnie, and they're like about fucking time, what are you doing, dude? Like like I don't even know why you're doing both. You know what I mean. I'm like I don't know because, like, one's a job and one's for fun, you know, and then it's like but then, but that's the thing. It's like I don't really. I forget how many people I've met over the years. I've met a lot of people and it only reminds me when I go to pga show and I know a lot of people and they're like everyone's like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna introduce you to paul, or I know paul, and it's like, oh, I heard your voice, or I heard you. I'm like like it's so random dude.

Sam: 30:21

I'm like, oh, let me introduce to so-and't know that guy like well for you, so it was about health, like you were gonna die, but you stayed for two more years, like what was the thing that made you finally quit? Or like were you had you saved a bunch of money? Were you like sitting on a million bucks and you're like I can quit now? Or like why did you?

Paul: 30:42

I realized that life should work right, like I mean personally.

Paul: 30:47

I feel like with people I mean most lawyers like to be a lawyer because of the money, right, like that's why they do it. And so it's like you know, the money was good. I enjoyed helping people. I really enjoyed that a lot. That was the best part for me. It was like solving problems and helping people. I really enjoyed that a lot. That was the best part for me. It was like solving problems and helping people. But then it's like they say you don't take it home, which you don't, but your brain never shuts off, right, so you're trying to solve 50 different people's problems at once, right, like all the time, and make sure all the balls are in the air still and we're not missing deadlines and whatever, because at the end of the day it falls on you, right? So I left because I needed time off to think and I was like, well, I'm making a little bit of money from this. At least it gives me some time to rest, right, which I haven't really rested?

Sam: 31:35

Yeah, but what about Emily and the kids and stuff? How did you figure that all out?

Paul: 31:40

I mean, my wife has a job.

Sam: 31:43

But like, obviously you went from like a pretty good income from your side, I mean I think like you have to take chances right.

Paul: 31:51

Life's short Well you know, because you almost died, right, I should have died. It wasn't like I almost died, I should have died, I don't know why I lived. So it's like my wife did this heart walk, like like a week ago with her work, and like she made so that I, like she walked for me. She said, and her mom who passed away a couple years ago, and she said they're like going with, like literature. She said team, right, because she's in management. And she said that like I had like the widow maker and they said that like if you have the widow maker, and they said that like if you have a widow maker, you have a 12 chance of surviving surviving not even like being fucked up like death, surviving, right. So like I didn't even know that. So if I was like and then listen to this shit, so then, like she was telling me this weekend, this is the saddest thing, dude.

Paul: 32:43

So her, her employee, um, her husband's a lawyer too, at a big firm and he went to bandon last week to play golf with his friends. He had a fucking heart attack at bandon and died and he was like 42 and he has two little, two little girls. Dude, I was like I just met this dude, like four months ago at a football game. I was like you could be kidding me, he's young. I was like see, just met this dude like four months ago at a football game. I was like you could be kidding me, he's young. I was like see that shit. If it doesn't happen then you're just like a, you're at a golf course, abandon, you're fucked. I was lucky the hospital's on the street. I was in an airplane. If I was middle of nowhere camping, there's no way. There's no way. And what happened? Like I don't. They say I don't know why it happened. They just say like oh, it's because it's hereditary. When they can't figure out why, they say it's hereditary bullshit.

Sam: 33:31

So but yeah, but you were also working like you just said, like you're managing like 60 things at once and trying to keep all the balls in the air like how much healthier is your heart? Or like how much longer are you going to live now? Are you still all stressed out all the time? Are you like better because you switched, or?

Paul: 33:51

Yeah, because I think, like I think when you run a business, you know well, when you're a lawyer, you're too busy trying to solve everyone else's problems, right, and you don't know if it's going to work or not. If it doesn't work it's your fault. And like, if it does work, they're still pissed off because it costs them a lot of money, right? So, like, essentially you, there's no winning as a lawyer, right? I mean, like, if you think about it, so, yeah, winning is just like they.

Sam: 34:15

They paid you, you should do your job, and then that's what yeah.

Paul: 34:20

So if you lose, they're pissed, if you win, they're. And then you got to watch out for the other side, right? Because like they're going to be pissed the whole time. So for me, I always try to like, so it's just like there's no winning, like we should win. So I feel like now I can control what I can control, which is mine and not someone else's times 50 or whatever. Yeah, how much longer do you think you're gonna be a founder, though? Because now you have to like you have to worry about everything, right? I mean, I know you don't. You've like the most best day in the whole wide world, like you get up, you surf, which is like your zen moment, and then you go and work, you do your day, but you're like you're clear, you're ready to go. You know what I mean. Like that's at least what you were when I was with you, but that's the hardest thing, like you, have balance.

Paul: 35:14

That's the hardest thing is having the balance right.

Sam: 35:16

Well, I think like I started minimal because, um, so in 2015 I stopped. 2014, I stopped playing full-time, stopped competing full-time, and I took a job to help launch 18 birdies app, which at that time wasn't even in the app store, and I worked super closely with the CEO and founder for like six months and was like this is so cool. I was like determining. We were together, like determining what was going to be in the app and I was yeah, it was a lot of fun. And then in early when the app launched, there was like a ton of like very much kind of tedious work to do. Once the design or like the conceptual understanding what the app was going to be was done, there was a bunch of work to do and I spent the next like six to maybe nine months doing that and it.

Sam: 36:11

There were still some of those moments which I really enjoyed, but most of the time I was just like very exhausted and tired and filling out spreadsheets and blah, blah, blah and I wasn't happy, I wasn't competing and I was tired and I was like all right, a bunch of different things.

Sam: 36:29

And Eddie and I the founder of 18 birdies had a really good conversation and he was like Sam, take some time away, figure out how to stay involved with 18 birdies. But like take, take a month off and let's talk about it in like a month or something. I was like okay, but I I knew that day that like I wasn't going to go back to 18 birdies in the capacity that I was before and since then I've been really close with them and I've been a part of every coaching program that they've done and all their lessons and all their stuff. But it I left 18 birdies knowing like okay, I don't want to have this kind of job ever again, where I'm like stressed dude, I had like gray hairs in 2015 that I don't have anymore. It's, it's. It's pretty crazy.

Paul: 37:15

Like you don't get here you look at Sandy, it looks like he's like he colors his hair, but he doesn't just saying that.

Sam: 37:21

But I in in 2000, I was like more overweight than I wanted to be and I had gray hair and I wasn't playing golf and I wasn't happy and I left 18 Birdies.

Paul: 37:35

Again, it's not 18 Birdies' fault, but it's sort of like that was the time.

Sam: 37:36

Oh, it's the stress and doing all that stuff, yeah. And then I moved to Puerto Rico actually the next year and, uh, was just doing my online coaching, like making content, creating courses, where I would work like once a month create a course, put it online, sell it, um, and then the rest of the month it was just like emails back and forth with people who had questions about the videos online.

Paul: 37:56

yeah, but see, like you, you dismissed that shit. Like like, oh yeah, yeah, bro, that one video we did together, like sam's last golf lesson, has like a bajillion views and like, if you read all those comments, they're all asking when is sam coming back. Sam is the best, that's so nice look at that video.

Paul: 38:12

It's there, I swear to god. I get to do shit for like a year and now it's like 10 or 15 000 views. But everyone's like, oh, I love sam's content, I miss sam sam, sam sam, you suck paul. Sam, sam, sam sam, I swear to god.

Sam: 38:26

Well, that was I mean that I should read these comments.

Paul: 38:30

This would be like like you know, like the bad tweets. This should be like um, I'm sure there's plenty of hate in there too like that's just in embedded in the online.

Sam: 38:43

Put yourself out there.

Sam: 38:45

Situation talking about everyone's a everybody's super nice online oh yeah, that's so true uh, but no, I mean yeah, that that was my career, you know for like from 2009 to 2004 till I started 18 birdies, all I did was create content online and I did you know at that time that that is what afforded me to be able to move to puerto rico and not work, and be able to leave 18 birdies and be okay and comfortable, and I knew that I could keep, continue to create content that was valuable, that golfers wanted to see, and that's what I looks like michael's watching us right now ah why that's so nice, michael.

Sam: 39:30

Uh, but yeah, that was part of what I uh, that was part of my life, that was a big part of my life was creating all that content.

Paul: 39:37

But when I moved to puerto rico and and I sort of like all the time and played golf with a really nice golf course.

Sam: 39:43

Seems awesome, right, but after about six months of that I was really down dude. I was like pretty depressed and miserable and it doesn't make any sense. But I found myself just like had no passion, no drive, literally like I watched all of Netflix, I just like did nothing.

Paul: 40:03

Even the bad ones, like the D level movies that nobody wants to watch.

Sam: 40:07

Yes, I watched the end to the end of Netflix and I was just like really, really bored. I tried to learn the ukulele. I was just like anything to do with my life.

Paul: 40:17

You know, I like couldn't find anything to be passionate about You're still in Puerto Rico or you in El Porto.

Sam: 40:23

I was in Puerto Rico, then Rico, then and, and during that time in living in Puerto Rico, there was a big hurricane and so I left because the power went out. Um, at the resort ukulele, I had a ukulele. I didn't bring it with me but, I, like basically, like this huge hurricane happened and I was like, all right, I'll go teach around, go teach around the country for however long it takes for the power to come back on.

Sam: 40:48

So I went and did lessons in New York and New Jersey and all over and California, st Louis, chicago, and after like a month I went back to Puerto Rico and it was still bad. The power was still out everywhere. I remember that it was really bad, like the power was still out everywhere. I remember that it was really bad, like it was six months of of that.

Sam: 41:09

And uh, and the other thing that happened is I went back to Puerto Rico and I was like damn, like this, this isn't like I had moved there after playing golf full time and working for 18 birdies and I didn't really have a strong friend group after playing golf full time and working for 18 birdies and I didn't really have a strong friend group. But when I moved to Puerto Rico, I made friends and I like kind of, like you were saying earlier, like I generated some relationships that I never really hadn't experienced in a really long time and I made friends, you know, and so I had these people I hung out with every single day and I saw every single day, and then, after the hurricane, everybody left every single day and then after.

Sam: 41:46

The hurricane, everybody left, like everybody who was of working age left the island to go get jobs, because nobody, you know, could afford not to have a job. So everybody leaves Puerto Rico. And then I come back after a month and like everybody's gone and I'm alone and I'm like holy shit, like this I can't. I just like can't do this anymore, like I can't, I don't want to be alone here on this island by myself. I want, I want my friends. So some stuff shifted there and I decided I met a guy in New York when I was coaching a clinic and I had some friends in LA still.

Sam: 42:19

So I was like all right, I'm going to move to LA, I'm going to help this guy. I'm at New York, I'm going to coach him and move to his neighborhood, manhattan beach. I'm going to coach him for six months and then I'll figure it out. And there's a big bunch of stuff in the middle there. But ultimately I had the idea for the golf bag.

Sam: 42:36

While I was coaching, that student of mine told him about the golf bag idea and he was like dude, this is a great idea, I think you should do it. And uh, one of those moments where somebody who knows their shit says you could do this, it could be successful. Um, that guy was, uh, had started and now it's like a crazy successful distressed debt um part of his firm. So they buy, they help companies that are like going out of, out of business, like can't make it, help them restructure, get them back alive, and then they make a bunch of money doing it. So that was his job. He would look at companies who were dying and try to bring, decide if they should invest in them to bring them back to life or not.

Sam: 43:19

So when he told me, like this is a good idea, I was like, oh okay, it's kind of like my GM telling me you could be PGA teacher of the year. This is a smart guy who knows about this stuff. So I was like, all right, I, I could start this company. That was kind of like probably the biggest thing. But the second thing was I'd been I'd been like jobless and had enough money before you know like I'd been living in Puerto Rico on an island, surfing every day, golfing, golfing every day, had everything I needed, but wasn't happy, and so I started minimal, knowing that this was going to be a challenge and it wasn't the easiest way to make money, but I wanted to do it.

Sam: 43:57

Like I wanted the challenge and like you know, paul, if anybody wants to make the most money possible, don't make physical products that ship all over the world. Make digital content that adds value to people's lives and sell it in a membership course. Like it's the easiest way to make money.

Sam: 44:15

And if you don't care about what you're making, then just do a Google search what do people need? And you can make a business that that is a lot easier to run than a physical product business and you'll you can make a business that that is a lot easier to run than a physical product business. But I started minimal because for two reasons. One, I had this insight from this guy who said this could work, should work, will work, and then I also just wanted to do it like I wanted a job and when I was at your apartment.

Paul: 44:40

I remember seeing the original sketches. Like you had the original sketches in your apartment, like, didn't you? You were in the refrigerator, didn't you?

Sam: 44:48

Yeah, yeah, I don't know where they are. Now I think shit, I don't know where they are.

Paul: 44:54

But they're. I thought it was so cool to see that it was like a little kid drawing. No offense, but like it was like the idea. I remember it was in the bathroom or somewhere.

Sam: 45:03

It was like some of you wouldn't even know it was on that cork board.

Paul: 45:06

It was on that mirror.

Sam: 45:08

Yeah, next to the mirror, yeah, yeah, and all my stupid affirmation notes next to it.

Paul: 45:14

Sam, you're good enough, you're smart enough.

Sam: 45:17

People like you.

Paul: 45:18

People like your hair A lot of that dude.

Sam: 45:20

There was a lot of that dude, there was a lot of that. Because I think, like in any of those moments, I've learned that from golf like it's a lot of losing in golf.

Paul: 45:28

All you do is lose in golf like it's only one winner, right so business, though like I just get pissed off when, like people competitors will be like, oh, we're beating you, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I'm not competing with you, dude, I don't give a fucking shit what you're doing. And like, if I was doing one thing, I'd probably be really, really good at it. Right, like, but I'm doing multiple things and like I don't tell you. Like, yeah, you're beating me now, but the storms are coming. Yeah, that's weird, that's a really I don't know why that's in us as humans.

Sam: 45:58

But I do think it's in us to compare and then if we compare we naturally want to compete. But I mean for me, I had one goal that was like outside of everybody else when I was playing golf, and that was to win the US Open. So I didn't really like compete with other people, I just competed with myself. Can I be good enough to win a?

: 46:20

US.

Sam: 46:20

Open was like the one question that drove me to do everything I did for nine years straight. And when it comes to the bags, it's pretty similar. It's like I mean I love the competitors in our industry. I think I took a ton of inspiration from Stitch, though I think like, yeah, we made a different bag from Stitch, but I like what Stitch did for who they did it for. I think it's a valuable thing in the marketplace. I love vessel for their premium quality and their like luxury shit, like dude luxury golf bags.

Paul: 46:53

They're so sick premium golf bags no one no one can compete with vessel when it comes to premium what's so cool about vessel, though, is like they're not just doing golf bags.

Sam: 47:05

No, this is another thing almost nobody knows they have so much cool shit the coolest bag that I ever got from Bessel. One of the reasons that the material on the very first minimal bag. I used this duffel bag that I got when I played in a golf tournament. It was a tea gift, it was a vessel duffel bag that was also like uh, um, what are those things called suits?

Sam: 47:28

oh, like it's overnight bag or oh whatever, yeah, like those suits that you like, you can hang your suit and it's like a thing, and that rolled up nice freaking shit.

Paul: 47:37

I was on the website the other day and I was like you guys make like I like I was talking to justin over there and I was like I think you guys made freaking travel bags like I never got was talking to justin over there and I was like I didn't think you guys made freaking travel bags like I never got one. I never seen that. I would have reviewed one, but like it's two of them, I was like and they make pickleball bags. Now they make pickleball stuff, they make tenants, they're so good collab is really really sick, like anyway.

Sam: 47:59

So I mean it's so easy to just like look at your competitors and see why they're successful and love them for that, and then I think if you can do that, then it allows you to like eliminate that as an issue in your brain. Now you can just focus on what's going to make you the best. So for me in golf it was like I want to win the US Open. I don't have to hit it the farthest to win the US Open, but I do have to be able to find fairways, I do have to have pinpoint accuracy with my irons and I have to be a master strategist. So those are the critical things I have to do to be the best to win the US Open. I don't have to think about anybody else and when it comes to the bag, it's like I don't have to worry about Vessel, Vessel, love Vessel. They're great, They're're not a competitor, they're in their own world trying to do their thing the best. And because I'm not being worried about competing with them, it allows me to just focus on what we want to do and and I think I mean I think that's a the healthiest I've ever felt about the industry.

Sam: 49:01

I remember like pretty early on, I'd be like looking at Instagram and I would see people like using another bag and I'd be like, dude, why are they using that bag? Like they know minimal exists, why would they it like hurt to see somebody using somebody else's bag? And then it was like, oh, that that our bag just isn't for them. Like that's okay. Like doesn't mean our bag's bad, it just means they don't want to use our bag, which is like, completely fine, Our bag is for a certain kind of golfer. That resonates with, like the mentality that I have kind of, and that's it. Like we're going to be.

Paul: 49:39

If you've thought so much outside the box, like you're still doing things that no one else is doing after five years, right, yeah, I mean I think is anybody copying you right now in terms of like a tech pack? I mean I know there was battery bags out there before that, but that yours wasn't yours making a tech bag that you could film yourself with you know, like the whole. Well, like I gave you that, list the other day.

Sam: 50:03

There's like seven things that a minimal golf, that minimal golf does. That no other golf bag company does and most of it you could find in other industries. Like we don't make anything out of not recycled material, so like other companies make that what bag that start with, though, because that's that's not with mr2, mr1, mr1.

Paul: 50:22

What about the other? Mv2, mv2 mv2.

Sam: 50:24

We couldn't hit the minimum order quantity in order to get okay. I remember that because it's just gnarly you have to order so many because nobody yeah a lot of the thing, especially when you're buying golf bags.

Paul: 50:34

Imagine that, right like you're gonna go to, you're going to a hard goods and they're not cheap and they take a lot of space. Right like they're not ball markers.

Sam: 50:44

Well, in our bag too, like our bag, the way it is landed is 171 or 174 dollars.

Paul: 50:50

Well, now it's going to be more because of these tariffs, but as they go through, that's, if they go like I was doing some of the day, like now, like europe is backing down, they're like oh, we'll, we're sorry, yeah, so maybe I mean maybe, but like indonesia, like the most greatest, nicest people on the planet, like if you've ever been to indonesia, like indonesian people are so kind literally, when they say thank you, they don't say thank you they say please accept my love, that the, the language.

Sam: 51:23

Uh, it's like I, it's like I'm not going to say it Cause I'll get it wrong, cause it's been a long time since I've been to Indonesia, but when when they're like when they give you your coffee they don't say like here and like like thank you. Like they say please accept my love. It's like they're the nicest people ever. Anyway, the tariff now with Indonesia, we just went went from 17 to percent. I think it was 17 to 37 percent.

Paul: 51:50

So our bags are going to cost that much more money when they get to the us, but whatever this is could be a stupid conversation a year from now and it's so interesting though too, though, because, like I know, a lot of people are shitting their pants like a lot of brands have very tight margins, right especially we do yeah. I mean like yeah, I'm saying like you have a tight margin 20 less. Now that's a lot of money. You know that adds up quick.

Sam: 52:11

Well, we don't even have 20 to get with where our margin's 15, and that's like in a perfect world. So, with no advertising, no paid marketing, no paid influencers. We don't even give you free bags, paul, like literally, but like you don't need a bag anyway, hey, I'm gonna send this bag.

Paul: 52:31

It's a one-on-one and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it shows up. It really is. It's like the one bag. It still has the tag on it saying sample, like he's like. He's like, when you're done taking pictures of it, look at it, review it, mail it out for me, yeah for real. I was like okay, I did I got out like the next day or a couple days later like think about that, though.

Sam: 52:52

like we, we talked to other reviewers who are like dude, I have 25 bags in my garage and I'm like, why do you have 25 bags in your garage? And they're like oh, every, every time a company makes a new bag, they send me, me another one, and I'm like that's so wasteful.

Paul: 53:07

Like why are they just sitting in your bag? I just give everything away. Like I will do a giveaway or I'll give it away to people, or like you know what I mean, like I don't need all that shit.

Sam: 53:15

It's tough, that's good.

Paul: 53:28

I mean, I think if you can make that deal with the company, hey look, I'll do a giveaway with this bag after I review it. I think that's good, yeah, or you guys pay for the shipping and we'll do a giveaway. Just give me the label, you know, and I'll take care of it. Like I would rather see someone else use the bag personally, like that would enjoy it as much as I've enjoyed the bags I've gotten over the years. You know what I mean. Like I don't know. Yeah, that's how it should be, I think.

Sam: 53:40

But anyway, we, yeah, we shipped you one and you shipped it to another person to review it and they shipped it to another person to review it. Literally, this one bag is going to go to eight reviewers, rather than eight bags to eight different reviewers.

Paul: 53:54

Yeah, times 200 a bag plus another $100 in shipping, right? So whatever that's $3,000 that you would have to spend.

Sam: 54:03

So if we spent that money, this is what I don't think customers understand If we spent that money we would increase the price of the bag to the customer to cover that cost.

Paul: 54:13

Go to the customer. It's not like there's.

Sam: 54:18

I don't think people understand. I never understood where the price of a product came from. I would hear things like oh, it cost two dollars to make a t-shirt, but they're forty dollars on the website and I'm like why are they forty dollars? They only cost two dollars to make. And I couldn't. I didn't understand where all of that money went, from two to forty, and now I do.

Paul: 54:41

Can I ask you a question? Yeah, ask you your question. All right in your head. I've heard some two ceos in the last year. The first time I heard I was like, oh, that's fucking bullshit. Then I heard again, like two weeks ago, and I was like, oh, maybe something to this, like do you have a multiplier? So, like you go, okay, it's blank times x is what I need to make on that. You know what I mean, and not in terms of profit, that's just so you can work off that number. Let's say it costs $1. You're like, okay, I got to sell it for $5. And then it's like, oh, but it only costs you $1. Yeah, but you still got to pay. The people pay the shipping, pay this, do the advertising? I'm not just using easy math. Is there? Do you do that as a, as a founder? Like, do you have to do a multiplier? So you know exactly, like, where the margin falls. You know what I mean.

Sam: 55:33

Cause then the tariff after everything up, because you got to add another 20% and you're like, okay, great, well that means that now thing it's a seven dollar thing, right, so we've always made about forty dollars on a golf bag. Sometimes we lose money because we have them longer than we expect to have them and we pay to warehouse them, right? So the easiest way for me to explain it is like these things are a hundred dollars. Um, if I bought them?

Paul: 56:00

for now. Those are a piece of shit. They lasted like 20 minutes. I'm gonna get rid of them.

Sam: 56:03

I know it's so sad we're not going to open the case because it could cause problems, but these things are 100 right. They probably cost under 10 to make right.

Sam: 56:11

I'm pretty sure they're under like four dollars to me, yeah, or something. So let's say I bought these for four dollars. Let's say I paid the factory four dollars for these but I have to pay rent $1,000 a month to sit these on the shelf at my club and they take up one 10th of that space, so it's $100. So I'm already negative four bucks. If I sell them for a hundred bucks I have to have, like, these things cost me money to hold. So I think what one of the things I didn't understand in the past is that, like, if we buy the bag, $175, landed cost $175 what a bad cost. The second I take it off the truck, it cost me more money because I paid five people, five of our staff, to take it off the truck so now it went up to $171.50, and then, when I put it in the store now or when I put it in the back of the club, you know where we store the bags.

Paul: 57:05

I know, yeah, I know.

Sam: 57:06

Now that space, them staying there, me paying rent on that space makes these bags cost more overtime. Every day, every day, they're there. So when you over order on accident, you under. It's not really an accident.

Paul: 57:20

I mean really, it's not because you do based on. I mean. But it's that's the shitty part that no one tells you like, hey, you think you're gonna get too many sales, and then something f's it all up and then you don't get the sales because the website's crap or like we were supposed to be on the um.

Sam: 57:41

We were supposed to be in a Super Bowl ad. Minimal was going to be in a Super Bowl ad. For what? In my head it was for another company who was going to run a Super Bowl ad and we were like a featured story for that company.

Paul: 57:55

Oh yeah, I remember this yeah.

Sam: 57:58

So in my head We'll call it Brand X. Brand X is like, hey, minimal, we want to feature you in this commercial because you use our product. We'll fuck up everything in the process. So in the meantime I'm like, oh my God, what's happening? We're going to sell a thousand bags in a day if we're in a Super Bowl commercial. We've never had that exposure.

Sam: 58:21

So I'm taking like 10,000 people coming to our website every week. I'm like, ok, take that times, it's a million, take that times 100, you know. And it's like, okay, 100. We're selling 10 bags a day with 10,000 people coming to our website times 100. Oh my God, we're going to sell 1,000 bags a day. I don't even order 1,000 bags at a time. I need to call the factory and order 3000 bags. So that's what I did and I got 3000 bags, and that company X didn't run a Superbowl commercial. So not only did I get all 3000 of those bags within like three weeks of each other, which I know why the factory did it but that wasn't the plan. The plan was to get 750, 750, 750, 750 chinese new year, all kinds of stuff.

Sam: 59:09

Plus, when a factory puts bags on the line, they want to make them all and ship them all they're gonna run it. Yeah, they don't want to do like, they don't want to get them all done exactly so anyway, but do 171 times 3000, and that's how much money we owed the factory that day. So it was like holy shit, okay, that's fine, the super bowl commercial is going to come out. Oh, it's not coming out. Oh shit, and so?

Paul: 59:35

we had to decide not to do this commercial. They would tell you they're just like sorry, yeah, dude it was you remember it, company? X, I remember, I'm not gonna say like I think 10 000 employees they lost.

Sam: 59:43

They were say who it was. They lost, I think, 10,000 employees. They were losing money. It was just a weird time in their industry and they lost a bunch of money and so they decided to cut their Super Bowl so we fucking nearly died. Thank God, our factory is amazing, but this is the kind of stuff that's like I don't do that in school no way. And I don't do that in school no way. And you have to make this bet and I would say probably 80% of the bets I make I'm getting smart about not making bets that could kill us but 80% of the bets I make they don't pan out, but the ones that do are the ones that you keep moving on. If you don't make any bets, you're not at the table.

Paul: 1:00:25

You're not in business if you don't make any bets. You're not at the table.

Sam: 1:00:27

You know you're not in business if you don't place any bets. Yeah, you're, whatever. So. So anyway, it's constantly placing bets that you have to be accepting that they're not. It's like golf, dude. It's like you. You, you tee off and like you, you're hoping that you make a birdie, but like you have to be able to accept if you make a par or worse, because there's another hole right behind it and you have to try to make a birdie on that one. Also, you can't get caught up in the loss of the bogey from the previous hole.

Paul: 1:00:51

So I like talking to an athlete lately who just retired and he was telling me he goes. He's like when they don't get insurance, he's like I've messed up something, like I'm done, I'm out, I'm out, you know. So you're hoping to make that money in that time when you're not hurt, right, or you make it to the big, maybe made to the show, because the big leagues doesn't mean jack shit.

Sam: 1:01:20

I mean making good money, right, we're not making like crazy money but you gotta know like, or you've got to be able to pivot. If, when your body no longer can perform, you've got to be able to like, use, whatever you are, 20 years of life to become elite, you got to be able to use that somewhere else or have saved a lot of money you know, I told him because he's like I was telling this guy.

Paul: 1:01:43

He's like, so I'm like, yeah, but if anything, dude, I feel like athletes have a huge advantage because you've trained and you've been so focused on whatever that thing was for so long. You, you know, like you're at the one percent of people right, like so whenever you figure out what that one thing is, you are going to exceed at it because you have you've done that your whole life on something else. So, like most people even know what the hell that even is and I'm like just finding that thing or things right because you have the work ethic, you're gonna be able to put it in there I think that's.

Sam: 1:02:14

It's so crazy man. I don't know, like my philosophy on like, why we exist here on this planet. It's probably the matrix another podcast but like yeah, it's the matrix, but like the, the, you know the people who want to. It's so weird like I remember asking this friend of mine like 15 years ago. I was like why, what? What's the one thing you would do every day if you didn't have a job?

Sam: 1:02:43

and she's she was a really good friend at the time and I was giving her golf lessons and she was really burnt out at her job and I was like just quit your job and you can do whatever you want, like I did, and it's fine for me, and she was like I don't know, like I don't know what that is, that every human has the one thing that they would do every day if they could quit their job.

: 1:03:12

I don't know Some people don't like.

Sam: 1:03:15

It's just like. My brain is like oh, I see this thing, I want it to be amazing and nothing's going to stop me until it's amazing, and then that's it, like everything else, just like get out of my way.

Sam: 1:03:27

Like the other day, like Paul, I rebuilt my website samwoolengolfcom. I rebuilt it literally everything. It's not live yet, but from start to finish, like from nothing to every course, I've ever made every video on every course, every product description, every product linking to a course, to a thing, to a membership that you can buy and you can download. I redid the whole thing on Saturday and I was surfing Saturday. Did you sell it on WordPress? I'm going to shift it from WordPress to Shopify Because Shopify finally happened. Did you get rid of?

Paul: 1:04:03

your guy. You had a guy that was managing it for you. Remember that one? Yeah, Nitesh.

Sam: 1:04:08

Yeah, no. Nitesh was really really helpful for a while, but I can do it all myself on Shopify.

Paul: 1:04:14

Dude, shopify sucks because they nickel and dime the shit out of you, but, dude, it just works. Man, it just works. And, trust me, I had a WordPress site WordPress breaks down all the time. There's always updates. It breaks down all the time. It breaks up all the time, like then they try to say, oh, wordpress, e-com is just as good as Shopify Bullshit. Let me tell you that that's what the fuck they're talking about. They're just trying to sell you on WordPress, because all they know Straight up, straight up.

Sam: 1:04:40

Well, and it is true, like shopify does own you once you get into their network.

Paul: 1:04:44

They want you to use wordpress. All this it's free of from, and you gotta buy how many plugins, right?

Sam: 1:04:50

all of them and then shit breaks, and then the plugins get updated and your server can no longer fuck. But what I was gonna say is on saturday, saturday morning I started working on a friday night, saturday morning we were surfing and all of our friends were like we're going to go to brunch at this place and I was like, oh sick, I was going to build my website today and so I just why are you doing that right now?

Paul: 1:05:18

What did you say? Why are you doing that right now? Are you rehashing Sam Golden Golf? Because you've done shit on that in like five years? Because quote you made your last YouTube video with me three years ago.

Sam: 1:05:33

Okay, it's true, I haven't posted a YouTube video in five years. About once a week someone writes me and says hey, sam, I miss your content, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like well, I don't know what to tell you. I made every video I'm ever going to make Like I. There's 600 videos, dude Like, plus the all the 18 birdies videos Plus. I made what videos I've made like over 1200 probably videos in that time and I don't have anything else to say, so I literally said that to this guy the other day.

Sam: 1:06:03

He was like hey, sam, really miss your content on YouTube. And I wrote him and I was like dude, thank you, like I. He's like Are you ever gonna post again? And I was like I kind of feel like I've said everything I need to say on YouTube, you know. And he's like he's like yeah, you know, I hear that, but I'm a baseball coach and I know that over time, even though I might not have learned new things, I've gotten better at explaining those things. And he's like I bet you're better now at explaining.

Paul: 1:06:34

You're like son of a bitch.

Sam: 1:06:38

Yeah.

Paul: 1:06:38

It's true.

Sam: 1:06:39

It's true, he's right.

Paul: 1:06:41

I'm five years older and ten years older than 2015, when I published that I remember you gave me that one lesson and we were effing around for a half hour at the club and then we recorded that was your quote unquote, last lesson, and like it was terribly shot because I know I was doing it back then. But like I know I can't believe how many views it's got. Number two my dad's even like that. My dad, even a couple years ago, was like that's a really good video. I'm going to do what Sam says. It really does work.

Sam: 1:07:09

And I was like god damn it, it's good. The reality is like so that happened and I'm like, yeah, but I did that Kind of like I know how to make a YouTube channel. Like that's not my focus right now, I want to focus on minimal. But yeah, but why don't you do a youtube channel for minimal then? So then we're getting there.

Sam: 1:07:32

so then I somebody texted me they're like hey, sam, like I had a question about the back and I was like, oh cool, yeah, here's your answer. I was like, by the way, how'd you hear about us? And he's like, oh, I saw sam on a on a youtube video and I was like, oh really. And he's like, yeah, eric cagorno.

Paul: 1:07:42

And I was like oh yeah, I had Eric on the show. Eric, cool shit yeah, eric's great, we talked about you.

Sam: 1:07:50

I'm sure, uh, I'm sure. No, it was all good we don't know you, we're like talking so Eric made a video with me.

Sam: 1:08:02

I on youtube now and he's has products with uh performance call and he did a video and he at the end of the video he was like tell me about this bag. And I was like, oh, the bag, this is like b1. And this guy three days ago was like or four days ago, friday, when I decided to do this, was like I saw your bag on a youtube video and I was like, all right, everybody wants me to make youtube videos again. I am better now than I was then. I do understand more now than I did then. It could be helpful to minimal the company. It would be helpful to the club that we have minimal golf club and um, and it would yeah, that's it like people want me to do it. I I can do a better job than I had done in the past.

Paul: 1:08:52

It would be helpful now so you have better sims and if you want to do in the same I have, my own club.

Sam: 1:08:57

I can film in the morning before we open or whatever like fortnight, yeah, so for a lot of reasons it's time to uh, to relaunch sam golden golfcom yeah, but you're like the og of freaking youtube dude.

Paul: 1:09:11

I mean I bet you a million bucks if you had not quit youtube. I should have like one or two million subs easily, maybe three.

Sam: 1:09:17

You probably make a book I mean, I had 10 000 subscribers in 2015, like I had no idea what I was sitting on, but I didn't know. I knew I wasn't passionate about it. No, it was fun.

Paul: 1:09:32

You didn't enjoy it, so why do it?

Sam: 1:09:36

But now it's not necessarily about that. It's about giving an audience what they're craving. And also I can do better. Again, it's like the golf bag. And also like I can do better. Again, it's like the golf bag. It's like V1 was V1, v2 destroyed V1. Mr1 destroys MV2. And MR2 is like a modified MR1, but it still destroys MR1.

Sam: 1:09:58

And features, like I was beginning to say earlier, like there's seven things that we do that our bag does, that no other golf bag or no other golf company does. So all of those things need to exist, I think. And because they need to exist, I feel like I have to do it. It's like when my pro, the GM, said you could be PGA teacher of the year, and then I was like, oh, if I could be. Well, now I have to be like, I have to try it and it doesn't mean I'll get to the end. I stopped coaching. I like I not stopped coaching. I'll always coach. But I stopped wanting to be PGA teacher of the year and in 2006 or seven, when I started wanting to compete and I stopped wanting to win the US Open in 2014, when I started working for 18 birdies and um, yeah, all those things you know can change and our lives change, but when it comes to like this youtube channel, um yeah.

Sam: 1:10:52

I just feel like I have to do it like because I can and because it needs to be done. It's not as good as it could be, so it needs to be better.

Paul: 1:11:00

I do like your new site looks. It looks way no no, no. You're looking at. No, I'm at minimal site oh minimal man who helped tell you guys what that theme should have been. That was a smart person.

Sam: 1:11:16

That site looks so much better than I mean. That's another thing. Your website has to change all the time. You have to update, upgrade, modify, improve. Not only that every time you come out with a new product, you have to update everything Redo, everything New, everything. New, everything. It's crazy.

Paul: 1:11:37

So when's MR2 coming out?

Sam: 1:11:39

We've been on this. Mr2 is coming out in any day now 15 minutes. It's coming out in. It comes out April 21st. It will be live for everybody else to get. Your audience is going to get preview. Your audience is going to get like a pre-order. You'll get it. You'll be able to publish that to your audience first, but we'll have bags in hand on the 21st of April, so that's when it will officially be live.

Paul: 1:12:11

Are you going to like? I mean, I know when's the official like, so wait, the 21st is when the you can buy them, I guess, yeah.

Sam: 1:12:22

But what's happening right now is anybody who buys mr1 is getting upgraded to mr2 if they buy black, because we're out of black mr1s. So a hundred people are going to get mr2s that just bought mr1s. So somehow somebody hears this before april 21st and you buy mr1 at mr1 pricing, you can get the price difference in mr1 mr2 well, funny, you should ask because they're landing after april, for 13th, our, our import duties are going to be higher, like that's.

Sam: 1:12:54

That's really going to be a bill for us, like literally, if the bags would have landed before april 15 it would have been 17, but because they're landing after April 14th, they're going to be 37%. So I have to figure out what that is. But you asked me earlier about a multiplier. We don't work that direction, we work the other way.

Sam: 1:13:13

So we take the entire cost of the bag, what it costs to warehouse it, what it costs to pay Campbell and me and Nicole and everybody else. Not that I get paid all the time Very rarely actually, but we put all of that into consideration and then we add 45 bucks. Basically, it works sometimes and it sometimes doesn't, because, like I said, sometimes we have bags for longer than we expect and then that $45 doesn't cover us and we're in a deficit If we sell a thousand bags and one can't go up.

Paul: 1:13:45

And all of a sudden I because that was not part of the equation when you did to the original map yeah, but yeah, our, our number is so different most e-commerce brands are spending 30 50 percent in just marketing.

Sam: 1:13:57

So, um, but our cost is like 3x, like I I told you earlier I probably shouldn't have said what it costs, but a bag typical golf bag is under $50 to make Most golf bags. Nylon golf bags are in the $30 range. So 38 bucks maybe. If you're making out of PU like a fake leather, it's going to be in the 40s. If you're making like a premium bag, it's going to be more than that, considerably more than that. If you're making like a premium bag, it's going to be more than that, considerably more than that. And if you're making a bag with recycled materials and all magnets instead of zippers, it's going to be 150 bucks. It's going to be 3x 4x most bags, but 3x most premium bags or close to premium bags. So our bags cost so much more at the beginning can't put 30 marketing dollars on top of that and be like, okay, now then pay a sales rep, then pay press pr, then pay ambassadors, like we couldn't pay all that. If we did, our bag would be 500 bucks.

Sam: 1:14:54

So, um, we don't want to sell a 500 bag because we want it to be accessible to the most people possible. So we just what? Whatever. If the tariffs cost us an extra $6 per bag, the bag price will go up $6. We won't multiply that. Go up 30. Most companies will go up 30, right, it's a 5X multiplier, right? So they'll say, oh, tariffs cost us this, so we need to increase the retail price of the bag, to you know, by 30 bucks. So yeah, but again.

Sam: 1:15:26

I chose to do this for fun, sort of Like. I chose to start this company as a challenge. I want it to be profitable, I want all of our staff to get paid and I want them to all have insurance. I want myself to be able to afford my house and all that stuff. But after that I'm good Like I don't have a board, being like oh, we only made 2% returns last month. Make them higher. Like nobody's doing that to me. So as long as we, as long as I, make a product that I'm proud of that our customers enjoy using, and we break even or do a little bit better, I'm fine. That's all that matters.

Paul: 1:16:04

Matters to me right now well, I really appreciate you coming on the show. We could talk, do you see?

Sam: 1:16:11

I'm not gonna talk 12 hours on this stuff, dude like, but we've already been talking for almost an hour and a half and yeah, there's so much more to say, but I mean, I think one thing I want to I want to touch and like touch on is that you probably haven't told anybody, or your podcast hasn't mentioned, that you too are an entrepreneur, like like, most people have podcasts don't really talk about the fact that they are also an entrepreneur and I think like having known you since 2020 2020 before covid dude remember the pga show

Paul: 1:16:44

that's right jason and brandon and maybe introduce me to you well.

Sam: 1:16:49

I think your story, like what you've done, is as valuable of a piece of that puzzle to help other people understand what it takes as anybody's, maybe even more so because you had to leave behind a career that was paying you really well and killing you at the same time. So I'm glad you talked about it today.

Paul: 1:17:06

I'm glad I hope some people heard it and um, I think life is about chances, like I think we just get stagnant, I don't know. As soon as you get older, too, I feel like, oh, I don't know. I saw as a lawyer like you see, all these people who, like, saved for that retirement. I saw a lot of people like that, you know. But they had passed away and I was helping their families and like it was just like, well, what did they even live life? Or they just live to make money, because now they're gone and they didn't even get to enjoy it.

Sam: 1:17:35

So it's like I don't know, there's no guarantees in life no I mean this I don't think this podcast is about life, but but I mean, that's why I'm in puerto rico right now. Paul, like I, it's I. I don't know how much longer. I don't know if I'm always going to be able to surf every day, like physically I don't know if I'm going to be healthy for how much longer?

Sam: 1:17:57

and I don't want to be in 10 years like have a million bucks in the bank and be like, okay, now I can go surf, but like my knees are bad and like my back hurts and it's like dude, I'm healthy now. If I can find a way to have like a little part of my day be fulfilling in that way for me, I'm gonna do it and, uh, not at the detriment to the company, but at the same time like the more healthy I am mentally we have a balance, right?

Paul: 1:18:21

I don't think you buy people balance. Well, I think they just you just work all the time you know what I mean in one capacity or another. If you're a parent, if you're not a parent, if you have a company, if you're an employee, if you're a management, like you just work for what? Like to pay bills, like dude, I don't know.

Sam: 1:18:40

It's, it's all, yeah, but it's. Everybody know like everybody has their own reason why they do everything they do. But if anybody out, there is thinking about quitting their job and doing the thing they love, and they know exactly what they love and know exactly what they would do. If you have any questions for me, I'm always-.

Paul: 1:18:58

Sam will definitely tell you what he thinks about that. I love it If you know it.

Sam: 1:19:03

I'm just like thinks about that. I love it, if you know it. I'm just like dude, just go do it.

Paul: 1:19:08

I just get bored really easily, dude. If I get bored with something, I don't want to do it anymore, or if I figured it out, I'm done. I've already figured it out. I figured it out Next.

Sam: 1:19:18

I think that's. What's cool about owning a business is that you can always you never figure it out. Yeah, or you figure stuff out, You're like oh okay, this is how tariffs work. I learned that this year. Like you know, like you, you just there's so much more.

Sam: 1:19:34

And then now, like we're going to make shoes and all this other stuff, it's like dang, where are shoes made? How much do they cost to make? What are the soles made out of? What are the uppers made out of? How much do the shoelaces cost? What are the insoles made out of? Can you make a shoe out of responsible material?

Paul: 1:19:47

Why don't you start something easy like slides, surf shoes, surf slides you just take to the beach? I think what we're going to sell is a package deal.

Sam: 1:19:56

It's a pair of shoes that are made specifically for golfing. I won't get into what that means, but they're just for golfing and then you also get a pair of slides so that you know you can take these off. The second you step off the grass and you can put on. Put on your slides, um, but yeah that would be cool it would be easier to start with sleds.

Paul: 1:20:18

Maybe we should do that well then you could do a slide. You could like go from the beach. The course, I don't know I need I need slides.

Sam: 1:20:27

I think there's a company, kelly k-l-l-y, it's, it's a it's kelly slater's company. They make really good slides and, um, I feel like if they didn't already, then it would be like, okay, we should make these.

: 1:20:41

But since somebody already is doing it great.

Sam: 1:20:43

It's like well it already exists. It's already out there. I can just tell people to buy Kelly slides.

Paul: 1:20:49

Yeah, but like, have you made a golf? I mean, I know there's a lot of people making golf slides right now. I know True's coming out with one.

Sam: 1:20:57

Yeah, they should. That's a good call.

Paul: 1:21:00

I mean they're already. They have a couple, I think I don't know. What do I know about golf? I don't jack shit.

Sam: 1:21:07

You know more than most. Yeah, you know more than most.

Paul: 1:21:12

Okay, Paul.

Sam: 1:21:16

Let's get back to work. I have a meeting with Jambo.

Paul: 1:21:19

Thank you for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me. You guys, if you are interested in getting a sick-ass bag, you'll get minimal on the podcast. If you are interested in getting a sick ass bag, you'll get minimal. They hand paint the bags too, by the way. He didn't even talk about that, but they hand paint their bags. If you want a fully custom bag, they can make you a fully custom bag Hand painted, and they're freaking sick. Sam's a good dude. Sam knows a lot about entrepreneurial stuff, even though he acts like he doesn't.

: 1:21:43

Thanks for being on the show it really is.

Paul: 1:21:45

He's one of my good friends, campbell. He's okay. I used to know that kid. He's not a kid anymore, but I'll see you guys in the next episode. Okay.

: 1:21:55

Thank you, paul. Thank you Thanks for listening to another episode of Behind the Golf Brand Podcast. You're going to beat me. Stay A behind the golf brand podcast. You're going to beat me A golf. Stay connected on and off the show by visiting golfersauthoritycom. Don't forget to like, subscribe and leave a comment. Golf is always more fun when you win. Stay out of the beach and see you on the green.