#Clockedin with Jordan Edwards

#224 - Transformative Approaches to Mental Health and Recovery

• Jordan Edwards • Season 5 • Episode 224

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After navigating the stormy seas of his own recovery journey, Jason joins us to share insights that might just change how you view addiction treatment. Drawing from years of experience as a professional in the field, Jason sheds light on the evolution and ethical challenges of addiction treatment models, contrasting the past's punitive approaches with today's more nuanced understanding. His personal anecdotes illuminate the stark realities faced by those in recovery, revealing the critical impact of external factors like social environments on the healing process.

Our conversation takes a deeper dive into the murky waters of ethical dilemmas present within the industry. We confront the uncomfortable truths of private pay models versus insurance-driven programs, often highlighting a disconcerting reality where financial incentives eclipse genuine patient care. Jason's firsthand experiences underscore the urgent need for reform, as we discuss how some centers prioritize profits over patient welfare, exploiting insurance for gain. Amidst these challenges, we explore revolutionary approaches that integrate physical activities with therapeutic methods, offering a fresh perspective on mental health treatment.

Beyond the systemic issues, our dialogue explores personal growth and accountability, emphasizing the transformative power of mindset and language. Discover how small, intentional actions can lead to significant change, and how the power of words can reshape personal narratives for the better. From the importance of affirmations to the resources available through Emotion Wellness, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge and practical advice for anyone seeking empowerment and transformation in their recovery journey. Join us as we navigate the intricate landscape of addiction treatment, armed with stories of resilience and hope.

How to reach Jason:

https://edwards.consulting/blog

To Reach Jordan:

Email: Jordan@Edwards.Consulting

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9ejFXH1_BjdnxG4J8u93Zw

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jordan.edwards.7503

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Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordanedwards5/



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Speaker 2:

Thank you, happy to have you here on the Hashtag Clocked In podcast, jason. What's wrong with the addiction treatment model? Why is this an issue in the first place?

Speaker 1:

Well, thanks for having me. I'm not sure how much time we have, but I will do my best. In the last 21 years it's definitely improving the outpatient mental health model that I am involved in seriously misses out on the client experience, I think for a long time. If you look at addiction for all of the reasons I like social media, there's a hundred others why I don't like it. Right, there's a lot of things that go with it. But access to information is good and I feel like it's helping with the mental health stigma. There's more and more talk about it. We're just improving. It's still behind but we're improving.

Speaker 1:

But when I got started 20 years ago behavior modification a lot of shame, a lot of addiction clients were addiction patients were oppressed and mistreated. I mean I've seen everything from people being thrown out of treatment and the cold with the bag and being told to like think about their behavior for three. It's like a punishment, right. And then when you come back, you come back and just all kinds of levers of pain and suffering to get people who are in suffering to do something different. And you know when I was going to school and I mean I got sober when I was 27. Oh, wow.

Speaker 1:

And I got sober in 12-step recovery and for about 10 years it worked really well. I was all in, I did tons and tons of meetings and helped. I feel like I supported my own recovery by giving it away and talking. And I went to school and I learned about trauma and I learned about the brain and I had this itch at about somewhere in my early thirties where I just needed to know more like what there's gotta be something else going on. Like I understand that there's. I'm spiritually sick.

Speaker 1:

I understand that I have what 12 step recovery so accurately depicted was a mental blank spot. So like I'll tell myself I'm not going to drink or use. And then my mind goes blank Like the reason for not doing it right. Like I'm pretty, I'm not insane when it comes to drinking, I'm absolutely lunatic, but I won't go play in traffic. You know what I mean. Like I'm smart enough, but playing in traffic is actually safer for me than picking up a drink. Because the reason that it's insane for me to even think about alcohol is every single time I used it, it burned me and the result was the same. So I have a lot of evidence right. It's like if every time you went into some room in your house and you got shocked. You wouldn't go in there anymore, most likely shocked, you wouldn't go in there anymore.

Speaker 2:

Most likely, this tends to happen with a lot of people uh, in regard to realizing who are the people around them and how the people around them affect them. So you might go somewhere, like it was very interesting. Back in 2020, I ended up traveling.

Speaker 2:

Like I left tampa and I was going and traveling around with my then girlfriend, madison, who's now my wife, but we ended up traveling and I remember we would go out every single weekend, like literally, when we were home, we would go out in Tampa, we would go out every weekend. And then we end up going on this trip and it's just the two of us and it's like we literally bought beers and no one drank them and we're like, oh, like we just don't care, like it just became this thing of like I don't, I'm not in love with drink, like you know what I mean, and you start to realize these things and it starts to get you in this place of what is okay and what isn't okay, and you start to realize who you really are without that association around it, cause when you're around it, it can be so traumatizing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think for people in my situation which was disorder drinking, in that there really wasn't enough power anywhere, like there wasn't enough fear. I mean I had a prison sentence over my head, I lost my military career. I mean I, I it got into everything in my life and took it, and there wasn't any piece along the way where I went oh, that's enough, I'm just going to stop. And even when I committed to stopping, I couldn't stay, stopped, you know, and I would do this thing where I'd be like, okay, I can do it. This time it'll be different. I'm not as angry or I'm going into it with a different attitude. Or you know, I remember, god, I've had some amazing, amazing people in my life and I had some amazing girlfriends along the way that just had to suffer at the hands of my, my illness and my addiction. And I remember going to treatment for 90 days, being in a pool with a girl that I was dating and she put up with my shit for two years, and I remember it would have been about 90 days and it was coming up on the weekend and we were in her pool in Tucson and I remember looking at it and I'm like, I think I'm ready and like. The look on her face was like it just went, like she saw a ghost and I was like what? What do you? What's that look for? And she's like ready for what. I'm like I'm ready to go out, I'm ready to drink. This has been 90 days. I'm like I'm not angry anymore, I'm good and like. Went out that night and the exact same shit happened, right, that always happens. You know, it's like, and I so.

Speaker 1:

For me, when I got sober, I was real fortunate. I was with a bunch of good people and then I started work. I got a call to work with people and I saw I got introduced to a program that was taking kids like on adventures and doing a bunch of cool stuff, and when it was really enticing and it was alluring and I was drawn to it. And then I quickly saw that the woman who was running that program she had a bunch of other stuff that she was doing that didn't feel good and I didn't know enough about the industry or like you know, you know what's right and what's wrong, but just in in your gut, but like I didn't really know how bad it was, and so along the way I just saw all these different things and I ended up the question that you asked was about what I think is wrong with the industry and like I ended up, uh, leaving the private pay cash pay model.

Speaker 1:

Where I was like was really the. The program was amazing. When you have more money, you can do more stuff, right? So, of course, um, we were traveling to, like, nepal, india, peru, africa you know, building school with these people were with kids yeah, with with like younger yeah, taking them to the grand canyon, like doing service trips, doing exploration.

Speaker 1:

And then I left there and moved to a small town in northern arizona and got into what you would call managed care. So it was like treatment that was being handled by paid for by insurance companies, and what happened to a lot of patients is that they went to a program that either was started by somebody who had like a few months sober on their own. It was mid, it was like 2016, 2015 to about 2018. There's this is an episode for a whole nother show but you have out-of-network and in-network and if you're an out-of-network program and you get particular policies, you can make quite a bit of money. Like, at one point they were paying. This is the weird part about how smart insurance companies are. I mean, they were getting $2,500 for a UA right, and so, if you do the numbers on, you have 50 people in your program and you drug test them each of them three times a week and you're getting 2500 bucks just for the urine. What's 50 times 75 100?

Speaker 1:

yeah that's a ton of money. That's a week yeah, and so you have a 25 year old kid who was doing heroin and dealing six months ago and now he's got access to unethical but legal money. And so patients were like you know we were. I remember conversations being had about patients and they were referred to by their policy. So that's a, that's a nice ship, or that's a, the insurance was making the money or the.

Speaker 1:

The providers are making the money, but like of course if you're the one going out to find out who you want in your program, you want the premium, what they call premium policies, so so you can look at an insurance policy basically right at the right out the get. There's certain tells it'll tell you if that's going to pay well or not, and so because it wasn't even them.

Speaker 2:

It was based on these different people so that you can kind of see who would be the best person for it. So like coming out of different areas like.

Speaker 1:

so New York had some really good policies Florida, california that's why all these treatment centers are in those States, because they pay really well on the, on a network, and so basically, what I saw was a lot of mistreatment. I saw a lot of, I saw a lot of abuse, I saw a lot of. Really just, I mean, my heart was I went through, I went through, I went through hell because I was like in this position of feeling like I was part of the problem, because you can't be neutral on a moving train, right. So like I'm in this thing and I'm trying to figure out how to make a difference, but everywhere I go I'm like this is shit, like the, the so the goal was at this point to make a difference in the treatment world my goal was to just like, help people.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I didn't realize how bad it was when I got to this little town in Northern Arizona. I didn't know what I'm walking into.

Speaker 2:

No, but my point being here is that you saw the extremely wealthy where they would send their children on these crazy trips and all these things. And then you saw these other people who went the insurance side and they still. It still wasn't the most ethical thing for them as well, and it wasn't the best solution they were making 10 times more money than the the cash pay was paying out.

Speaker 1:

But what was happening was it was fast money. It was like run by a bunch of really unhealthy, sick people who, like, the minute they got the money, were buying bentley's, and you know what I mean.

Speaker 1:

Like yeah like new money, you the whole story about new money. Right, like you get a bunch of money, you go out and don't know what you're doing with it. So it was just awful. I mean, the stories were. There's a movie out I forget the name of it, um, but it's. It depicts like what went down, and it's one of the few times in hollywood where they they couldn't have done it, they couldn't have made it worse than it was.

Speaker 2:

Like it's literally as bad as you can imagine but it wasn't for the authentic, it wasn't actually to help the people, it was just these profiting oh absolutely.

Speaker 1:

There were some programs that were trying to do good stuff for sure. I'm not saying all of them, but in this area I would say the majority were how do we make the most money the fastest and how do we pack people in? And you know, programming and considerations for what the state requirements were and all that kind of stuff weren't really considered. Um, and then you, you know the easiest way to answer your question about what needs to change. So traditional group therapy. A lot of people have experience with this right. So just visualize what does group therapy look like. I walk into a room. I'm at a center. Looks like somebody's grandmother decorated it. No offense to anyone's grandmother. I go into the room. What's the shape of the seating arrangement? It's a circle.

Speaker 2:

Circle yeah.

Speaker 1:

And all the chairs are close together. Yeah, the walls are white, the dry erase board is white, the markers are probably faded because nobody keeps up with how soon you have to change them out. So most people are going to say something to this effect at work in the field, oh, we meet the client where they're at. Well, where's the client at, if you understand brain science all day long, I'm being stimulated by this.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Okay, is this black and white? You can put it in gray scale, but most people don't know how to do that. So all day long I'm getting vivid colors. I'm on a screen with blue light and vivid colors, right.

Speaker 2:

Oh, so you're saying that the room is just not entertaining and it doesn't hold? Yeah, I'm.

Speaker 1:

I'm telling you from.

Speaker 1:

Let's just take the group process and I'll break it down for you Just simplify it all the way, yeah, so it's like I walk into a group room Now I have a nervous system that's been using drugs and alcohol for a long time to do what most. For a long time, to do what most people. Nobody's going to treatment because they're partying too hard. Let's get real to go into treatment because they the the relief that they seek is not working. It's causing too much trouble and and they need a different answer. So the only thing that provides me relief from being close to people talking about feelings being bored yes.

Speaker 1:

Right, I'm doing the thing that I'm going to see you. I'm going to treatment to work on this thing that addresses boredom, isolation and talking about feelings. Yeah, on day one you put me close to people, you asked me to talk about my feelings and you give me three hours of boredom yeah and you wonder why I don't come back because the experience isn't there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, from a from a like a clinical standpoint. The engagement's not there. So, yes, the the traditional model doesn't really give patients a reason to want to come back Most people. It's hard to tell if a patient gets well because they were going to get well regardless or if it's because I walked in the building. You get what I'm saying Like who knows.

Speaker 2:

It's a big issue. I mean, a lot of people are struggling with not and we were talking about this before, jason that it's not just addiction, it's also depression, anxiety, like people are dealing with all these emotional challenges, and it's like how do you overcome this and win this in a positive way and have that positive environment? Because I mean even like let's go to your story like what was really the moment where you're like, dude, I'm done? Like what was that change moment? Because there must have been times throughout that experience where you're like I need a pause, like I need to stop, and you express some of those. But like what was the moment where you're like I need to pause, like I need to stop and you express some of those. But like what was the moment where you're like, dude, I'm really making a change here? Well, a lot of that to happen.

Speaker 1:

I think for me when I look back at my personal. So my personal development mirrors like my business development.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I've been sober 21 years. I was, you know. I had a really unhealthy relationship in Texas for about three or four years and lots of stuff that have to do with like inner child nervous system. A lot of people don't understand that, like our primary caregivers whether that's mom and dad or aunt and uncle or grandparents, or the foster care, whatever we grew up in it creates a template for us and we learn to be either like anxious, attached, or disorganized, or secure, and most people who end up being driven towards drugs and alcohol wouldn't fall under the secure category. Most of them are anxious, disorganized, attachment style, and then when two people have those type of styles together, it can be disastrous right. So a lot of people's nervous systems you would think common sense, like prefrontal cortex, logical goes oh, I had shit, this shit in childhood, I don't want it in my adulthood, but the nervous system doesn't understand that. And the nervous system goes no, no, we need that stuff from childhood in order to fix it. Yes, so I was trapped in this cycle with a woman that was similar. We just had probably the two worst nervous systems to line up and I ended up.

Speaker 1:

You know, I was disenfranchised at work and really it was a personal journey of needing to get to overcome my victim mentality, address imposter syndrome and bet on myself. I just couldn't. I wasn't able to do that. I was constantly fixing programs, working for people who would make promises, so it's not to blame anybody Like it's.

Speaker 1:

I ended up at 18 years, sober, in a water worker parking lot with a pistol in my car, looking, figuring out where I could go to end it, because I had made poor choices and because I didn't understand my and because I didn't understand my own. I couldn't see my own stuff and I wasn't taking care. I was. I didn't have a therapist of my own at the time. I you know there's things I wasn't doing. So I'm not here to say, oh, the world just happened and I got, I put myself in that position. Uh, I ran for a long time hiding from what was my true calling, which was like I needed to step into this realm of like building something that actually makes a difference, whether whether the world sees it or not. I needed to do that for myself, but I was terrified, you know. So Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

And if you guys, if the audience isn't catching what he's saying. Three years ago that was Jason.

Speaker 1:

Now.

Speaker 2:

Jason's running this yeah, now Jason's running this successful business and like we're going to dive into more of that a little bit later in the podcast. But it's just those decisions and those changes really make a big difference, and what would so, once you really bet on yourself. Is that what you're kind of getting at or alluding to that?

Speaker 1:

well, yeah, so that something happened to me. So I had a longtime friend of mine 20 years, we're both sober and I, um, I just walked out of my apartment dude, like I just basically was like I'm, I can't do the same more with her. And so just walked out of my apartment, dude, like I just basically was like I'm, I can't do the same more with her. And so I walked out and I called my friend and I was on basically in a spare room at his house and you know, 18 years sober, 46 years old, broke, not happy, like this isn't how it's supposed to be. You know, I saw in my mind at the time I'm seeing, like I see all these people and it feels like they, they get sober and they do some stuff, and they and I was being, you know, my mind was lying to me in the sense that like I wasn't really paying attention to either the choices they made, the effort they put in or whatever. It was like I was just oh, you thought that.

Speaker 2:

You thought that the sober was the underlying truth to the success.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it was like in the story I was telling myself at the time which you know I did some work on, quite a bit of work on was like I'm 18 years, sober, so I'm supposed to be like this. I got sober, I should be in a different spot. And then, yes, one night I was just just sitting with myself and I'm not gonna say I didn't hear a voice, but it was like the thought. It was a very loud, just intense feeling of, and what kept coming to me was like dude, nobody's fucking coming, like there is, there is no bag of money coming out of a armored truck, there's no red carpet, there's no magic lantern, there's nothing. Like you are going to have to do this or you're going to have to end it.

Speaker 1:

And I was on a spiritual side. I my whole life I had what you would call suicide ideation. I've always thought about oh, I could just pull the trigger, like whenever it got really bad in my brain. It was like a relief. It was like a simp, like a, a pressure relief, like if it all, if this thing goes to shit, I can always just end it that's crazy after I moved into his house, timing wise-wise the work I had started.

Speaker 1:

I don't know what, but I was calling out and wanted something different. It feels to me like God just took that it just I no longer have. I haven't had it since and that moment I felt the voice, or the whatever saying nobody's coming. It was like. The thing that followed right after was like it has to be you, it just has to be. So it was this reckoning, this reckoning with myself, around truth and and I couldn't have it with a friend, I couldn't have.

Speaker 1:

Uh, it wasn't like anyone was going to get in my face and be like dude, shake me until I saw it. I had to see it and the foundation got cracked by the amount of pain and suffering and I had been carrying that pain for my entire life and I had been running from it for my entire life. And it caught up to me, thankfully, and I accepted the challenge and from there it was like I put myself in the most intense self-help treatment program. I took every bit of science I'd ever read, I took every podcast I ever listened to. I just went all in and it was like I'm going to do everything I know and I've ever done with clients. I'm going to wake up early sunlight. I'm going to do the cold punch. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

Like but it's, but I'm laughing because it's like it's so hard as a coach, where you recommend all these things and you're like, wait, I got to hold myself to the fire, I got to get this thing going. And I think Jason brings up a major point for all of us listening to realize that, like you're the only one who cares about your life, like, yes, you have family, yes, you have friends, yes, you have all this no one cares.

Speaker 1:

Like even if they do care. Jordan, I think real quick, because this is something that's happened to me and I see this a lot well-intended. Uh, advice has thrown a lot of people off course yes, what do you mean by that like?

Speaker 1:

I got a group of friends and, like the, you know, if I got a mom that loves me to death and is scared for my, wants me to protect me, right her? Her end goal is keep me safe, but I want to go. My dream is to go jump out of airplanes and fight fires, and I listen to her voice. She's really not telling me what's best for me. She might think so and she might.

Speaker 2:

She doesn't even want, but she's doing what's best for her yeah, and you got to realize that perspective of as a parent. They want to be the protector most of the times, even yeah, no no, because you have to realize the frame of where you're getting the advice from. Yeah, you would never get that advice from someone who really likes jumping out of airplanes like you, just won't or or an unbiased, unattached professional who's just holding up a mirror, which is what really good therapy is like.

Speaker 1:

The best therapy in the world, or coaching is. You have the answers inside you. My job is to help draw them out, and I don't draw them out with statements. I draw them out with questions.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and you start to realize that it's not always. It's not always that we're wrong or that we're right or that this is bad or good, but it's just. The whole game is to figure out who you want to be and what makes you happy.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

And the more authentically we're allowed to be ourselves, the better. We're going to show up Like I could imagine three and a half years ago. You're not like, oh dude, I'm gonna be on podcasts, I'm gonna be doing this, I'm gonna be doing that. You're just like. I just don't want this feeling anymore and I want to be more authentically myself, which is all. It's what we all truly want. It's really is what we all truly want, and everyone has different frames of how they get through there and how they go through that. So, for you, what part of that journey? What? Like what, what? What was the first step? Obviously, you stepped into personal growth yourself, but like what was the first step to get there?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I got. I got accountable with my, my daily practice and I started honestly, I started saying no. I've been saying yes to everybody since I got sober. And I said I started saying no. In fact it's it. It tears me up a little bit. So I'm a I was a canine handler in the military.

Speaker 1:

I love dogs, right. Like had a cane Corso before. They were cool, like he was 11 years old. I put him down five years ago and, like my best friend that I was living with had a dog and he we had two guys that live in the house. He said you know how I know that it's not, you know how I know it's the other guy coming in the door or how you know how I know it's you when you come in the house. And I was like how is it Cause you don't say hi to the dog? And I remember telling him I'm like, bro, I got nothing, dude. Like I got nothing, like I got enough to get from my coaching of CrossFit class and the one group that I'm doing for special forces guys in therapy, and then between those two groups, all I'm doing is crying and trying to figure out how not to kill myself, like I don't have anything other than my own energy. I got to keep it right. So it started there where it was like hunkering down only doing for me, and the doorway that opened up was a book called how to do the work, and it was about really managing the inner child. And I was doing inner child work with what's called an internal family systems therapist, a beautiful, amazing woman out of Mississippi. I was doing that on zoom and I was doing therapy and I I was.

Speaker 1:

I don't know how I paid my. We talked about this before. I don't know how I paid my. We talked about this before. I don't know how I paid my bills. I don't know how I survived, but I just only thing that mattered was getting myself good, that was it. Or well, maybe that's not the right word, but like, and so all my decisions were like I don't care about the money, I don't care about prestige, I don't care about anything except getting myself healthy and pursuing what I know I need to pursue. That was the first step.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and when you make that definitive decision and then actually put action behind it, I think it makes a world of difference, because it's one thing to talk about an idea, it's another thing to actually execute. Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

The more we put into action and put those things towards it. So like, for example, like the New Year's happened and I know this is kind of deviating a little bit, but my goal was to read a book every single day, not read an entire book, just read one page. Because I know I'm not perfect and I'm like if I could read two, three, four, five pages then I'd be better than if I didn't read before. So that's kind of my thing and I take the action and even if it's nighttime, I'm like, okay, we read our one page and we go to bed. But it's these little things, that where you set yourself up, you hold yourself accountable and then you do it, then you have more trust in yourself. So I'm sharing, like I'm sharing. Jason had a huge example. I'm having a very minor example, but if I'm having a very minor example, but if you're listening, you could do anything you want and it could be super minor, but you start to trust yourself and start to believe that you're actually in control.

Speaker 1:

So what's wild is so in the book? Um, how to do the work. It's make a promise to yourself that you can keep every single day and keep it. So my very first promise was so picture like not necessarily linear, but kind of a straight line. The house I was living in is in the middle and on one side is the CrossFit gym that I work at and on the other side is the hospital I work at Right. So I go from the hospital to the gym. That was my schedule. I worked in the afternoons and then coached at night, so I'd stop by the house to change and do my thing.

Speaker 1:

Well, I was like looking around my room when I started to look at what promise to make and it was like dude, you're, you're a fucking 40, you're a 46 year old man. Like put all of no clothes on the floor. Literally, that was the promise, that was it, and I did that every day, no matter what my gym clothes went in the hamper. I like there was never a clothes on my floor and that's what started it, man. It was that promise to myself and I built, I started to build off that and then the promises started getting bigger, like I'm gonna find the million dollars I need to get my shit started. I'm gonna find this, I'm gonna. And it just went. It just snowballed into like nothing. But I was like I went from feeling stuck in redlining constantly to having nothing but traction.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and truly one of the crazy things is is that it's all momentum Like. Like, when you start building a momentum, it really gets things going. And I saw someone talk about this the idea of vacations versus traveling, or traveling like you're still committing to doing the work and committing to doing better, while vacation you're just taking the time off yeah you literally said they were talking about that and they literally. I mean it makes so much sense that if you have momentum, keep the momentum.

Speaker 2:

Don't not respond to someone because because you're like dude, it's my vacation time, I have private time like it's like, dude, just keep going, and because if you do that, you're giving yourself the breaks each and every day while that's all happening. So I think it's like, dude, just keep going, and because if you do that, you're giving yourself the breaks each and every day while that's all happening. So I think it's so important for us to do that where it's just it's okay to work like it's not a bad thing.

Speaker 1:

It's a good thing to have goals and work towards those goals well, people talk about work-life balance a lot and I don't think there is such a thing. Not as a business owner, I don't. There is no way to have balance, and maybe when you sell it you know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

But like building a business, no, there's no balance yeah, no, absolutely, because you got to be all in. So tell us what is emotion, wellness, and how did you come up with this concept?

Speaker 1:

well, uh, thanks for asking that question. I think for me, um, not, I think I know it was born out of the struggle that I had, right, I wanted. So I'm not really a guy who I happiness is cool and I'm not knocking it. I'm not somebody who ever really thought, woke up one morning and said I really want to be happy. That's just not. And that sounds bizarre. And I'm not trying to say that for effect with the question or the, the. The statement that I say a lot is I want purpose. Yeah, I have to have a purpose.

Speaker 1:

And so when I looked around at what I, when I was making my decision to go all in on myself, the big question you have to ask is like, well, I'm not going to go with something I don't know. That's kind of not that it can't be done, but I'm not going to leverage skills I don't have. I'm going to leverage what I do have. Yeah, the one thing I know and I know it better than anything else and I know it better than most people walk on the planet is how to get people moving. I I just have a thing. I'm not not trying to be bravado about it, there's no fucking arrogance in that whatsoever. It's just a fact. Like I level people up wherever go, I was doing it to my own detriment. Prior to now, I figured out the sauce to level you up. Well, you know what I mean. Like I don't, I don't have that issue anymore.

Speaker 1:

So I knew I had to do my own program if I was really going to make a difference. And while I want to help the individual that's the main goal, the more individuals that I will. I can help more people if I can change the industry. That I will. I can help more people if I can change the industry, yes, and so I knew I had to go all in on my concept, which I've been forging for like 12 or 15 years.

Speaker 1:

I developed an experiential therapy process that uses the neuroscience of physical activity, getting the heart rate to certain beats per minute, also, while infusing therapeutic psychological concepts. So we are basically a mental health facility that fuses together physiology and psychology, where most people are only dealing with psychology from a treatment standpoint. Meaning you walk into a therapist's office, they don't have you most places, don't have you exercising, don't have you getting hormetic stress or changing the climate of the room or doing any of that. They're going to sit in a chair and you're going to have a conversation right, and they're going to give you suggestions that involve physiology. They're going to say, hey, it might be good to just like it might be good to journal. You might want to take a walk. They're going to make suggestions and then you're going to leave that office.

Speaker 2:

Most people don't ever do anything that they talk about in the session. I, I'm, I'm smiling because I literally sit there and think about, like when do things change? Things change at an emotionally high states.

Speaker 2:

So an emotionally high state is the complete opposite of sitting on a couch like it is the complete opposite yeah but if you're jumping from sauna to cold plunge, to running around, to getting to this point of like I want to quit so badly, I'm in so much pain, blah, blah, blah, and then then you have a breakthrough and it's yeah well, there's like order of operations, right.

Speaker 1:

So in math, like you gotta do certain things before you do other right parts of that. That's not my forte, but I remember that from school because I didn't know how to do it. But, um, when I think about so, a lot of people will say things like well, yeah, the suffering addict has been doing nothing but activating, so they need to calm down. But I disagree completely. In the beginning, there's no person who's coming down off crystal meth that wants to fucking meditate. There's not a single one. They're not going to benefit from that. What they're going to benefit from is learning how to use their breath to both activate and then settle in. Right, so the deactivation. They're also going to instantly feel better because of the dopaminergic response produced by physical activity, as well as adrenaline, norepinephrine.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

They're going to instantly start to rewire pathways. It's one of the most powerful so the neuroplasticity is physical activity yeah so I've got all this brain, I've got a brain disorder. This is the part of the business that I didn't understand, coming as I was coming up. We are literally treating brain disorders, but we don't take images of the brain, we don't? Most people that work at a mental health addiction treatment center do not know anything about the brain.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

They could not tell you the components of the brain involved with the reward system. They could tell you dopamine, but they don't know the rest of it. So, and there just hasn't been this information out there. It hasn't been. It's been the standard. We're going to do talk therapy. We're going to push you towards the 12 steps. We're going to have you in a room that's very, uh, not very stimulating, with lack of colors. So at our center we have led lights everywhere we have. We sit on the floor. Um, we actually so the dopaminergic response from physical activity. So the gym floor is a rolled rubber, it's got blue specks in it and it has a particular feel and smell. So, for someone who doesn't really understand, right? So if you were to take like an addiction, we talk about triggers, right, people? You've heard that word trigger.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1:

A trigger is the same thing as in trauma. We would call that an association. So it's a, generally speaking. It's going to be a cue for the brain to do something right. It's going to be a cue for the brain to do something Right.

Speaker 1:

So if I'm a person who let's just take something benign cause I don't want to trigger anybody who's listening, but like if I'm a marijuana smoker and I and the pipe has a it's a glass pipe and it has a particular color that glass pipe is going to when my brain sees it, my brain is going to start the chemical process. So if you ask if you ask any heroin addict that has ever been dope sick, when they start to feel better, the answer is not going to be when they get high, it's going to be when the dealer says they got it. That's when they feel better because the brain is producing the opioids. It's starting the process because it knows this drill. So if I go into a gym and we have a very specific system that we use to get people involved and have a powerful experience, and it's all done in groups, they have this powerful physical experience that actually addresses low self-esteem and insecurity oh, that's awesome so they start to feel better psychologically.

Speaker 1:

They start to feel better physiologically because they're just the chemistry's already up. Yeah, we fuse the psychology with that higher state of dopamine. Then they go up front to the group room. Well, the group room has the same rubber flooring okay so here's the thing I don't have to.

Speaker 1:

Every single time somebody comes in my center, they don't have to start in the gym in order to get that same effect. Now I can have them start in the group. But guess what happens when the brain smells the rubber it started when they were on their way to the same thing as a trigger where they're getting. We call them, like the book, how to do the work. She has a great term, it's called glimmers.

Speaker 1:

So like a glimmer is like the same thing as a trigger, but it's moving you in a positive direction. So now I'm getting, I'm getting activated to move right. Yeah, so what I think separates us from any program out there is just cause I'm I'm actually a bit of a lunatic with this and I've had to tone it down. The intentionality so I had. The best compliment I've been given in the two years that we've been open is that therapist knew exactly what I was up to, walked in my building and before she left she said you literally thought of everything. She's like this place. Is it just from the time you walk in? It re? It just knocks people in the job because they what's an addict who's been to a bunch of programs is having to go to another treatment center. What do you think their attitude is? Walking in the door.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

They walk in the door, everything's modern. It's's black, concrete polished, it's wood and metal. I mean it's a lot of features that are like. They stand out. It looks like a place you would spend 800 bucks a month to go to to be a member so how?

Speaker 2:

so? How do people become like, how do people join?

Speaker 1:

so we do. Obviously we'll take. We're one of the few places they'll still take cash. More and more places are saying they don't want cash but private pay. Um, you would. You could also uh from a, an assessment, a mental health assessment, like a. It's called a bps or biopsychosocial um, and basically you qualify from a therapist interviewing you and looking at your symptoms, putting together a diagnosis, and then that gets submitted to your insurance and if your insurance is carved out in a way that it has mental health benefits, we're a network with all the major carriers so I wanted ease of access, right, like we have different tiers of treatment, so I have, like, significantly high levels of engagement. Those are generally going to require private pay because insurance just doesn't cover them.

Speaker 2:

As high as it gets, I understand.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but for the IOP services, the client's getting I mean, you have to think on their insurance, right? Not every insurance is different, but the insurance is paying. They're getting access to cold plunges, saas, basically personal training. They're getting case management, they're getting physical activity. We give everybody uh, do you know what the aura ring is?

Speaker 1:

uh, yes, I, I have a bit, but I know the aura ring yeah so we don't have aura rings, but we have a company that built their own and it monitors patient data and that's actually connected to a 24-hour hotline for patients. So if they, it'll send them to an app on their phone. It'll send them messages based on their biometric data. So if they have, like a spike in their heart rate, it'll ask them if they're okay. If they have wow, if it, if an anomaly shows up, it'll signal. It'll signal a report. So we're doing a lot of stuff that we don't get reimbursed for, but it all adds to the efficacy of the program. Yeah, and making people actually get, helping people get better that's it's incredible.

Speaker 2:

And where is this place?

Speaker 1:

In San Antonio Texas.

Speaker 2:

San Antonio, texas, very soon coming to a city near you.

Speaker 1:

That's for, that's for sure oh yeah, we're, we're, we're on, we're en route, we're, we're a year and a half in, we're doing number two. Oh, really, yeah, so that's awesome.

Speaker 2:

yeah, we've basically been able to fund ourselves like the whole time.

Speaker 1:

So we love that, yeah, because, uh, then you have control yep yeah, what I like is I mean we were, we were in the, we were positive cash flow six months in so incredible, incredible, incredible.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome. So let's do a quick thing, because I know we got a few minutes left. But between who you were three and a half years ago to where you are today, like, what advice do you think would be applicable to people for them if they want to make a change, because obviously it's incredible what you've done, so it's how can someone else make a change? Because obviously it's incredible what you've done, so it's how can someone else make that change? And like, what you rent, you recommended the book is. Is there anything else you think would be paramount to? Or maybe some tips or tricks?

Speaker 1:

um, yeah, I think, man, there's a lot. I would say to that. The person that's sitting across from you right now and the one that was in a parking lot, like I, was very close to pulling the trigger. I mean, it's not for dramatic effect. There's so many parts of me that are the same in a good way. Like I have a big heart, I'll get the shirt off my back. Um, I'll do the right thing. I help people. I'm I mean, I'm a business guy, but I'm also like I don't. I'm not that really focused on the money. You gotta be honest with you. Like I'm more focused on, like I have people all day long in our center and be like hey, like, hey, I'm struggling this month. I don't know if I can come up with the coinsurance. Like can you cut me a break? And it's like, just get your ass to the. If you will do every single group this month and you don't miss, I won't charge you. You know what I'm saying. Like like, if you commit I'll, I will be on board with like that's.

Speaker 1:

I've always been that guy. I've always it a kid. I still am to this day. My mindset is what is different? So I no longer get hit with challenges and internalize it in a way that deteriorates me. But here's the thing I did over your headphones I did fucking yoga, I did retreats, I did every fucking master Like I did it all right, there is a guy you should get him on your podcast. He's amazing. His name is Mark England and he created a coaching model called the unlifted method and it's about the power of words. But here's the difference I never went to a therapist and wrote ever. Start asking that question. You know people who go to therapy.

Speaker 2:

Dumb.

Speaker 1:

So do you know people who are gone, like, do you know people who are?

Speaker 2:

gone. Yeah, I know a few of my friends.

Speaker 1:

So ask them hey, does your therapist have you right?

Speaker 2:

Okay, I will.

Speaker 1:

I'll be shocked.

Speaker 2:

I doubt it.

Speaker 1:

If they say, oh yeah, they had me right, like it's usually going to be a journal, say, have they ever had you write your story? Oh, wow, because here's the thing, my personal narrative, the inner critic was so loud. I mean, honestly, jordan, I knew I was fucked Cause I can put it together Like I can walk into a business that's a failing treatment center. I know how to fix it. I was in the military. I know how to like. I have all these skills, but I had a mindset that was scarcity and it was negative and it was riddled with shame. So the advice I give to anyone is, if you really want to change your mindset, buckle up for a very intense battle. I don't know how long it's going to take. It took me nine months of all out war, but if you're not going to write, it's to take forever. It's going to suck like you have to put it on paper yes there's this magic.

Speaker 1:

I don't and maybe it's not just, I don't mean just writing. I'm talking on a computer or whatever. I do sessions with people on google drive. We do writing. We'll take words and narratives like how much time do we have? We have two minutes or what can we yeah, of course so let me give you this.

Speaker 1:

This is one. This is a game we play, and it's not anywhere near the depths that this thing can go, because I've done this, I've done this work, writing stuff out for people. I've done it with like really traumatic stories of like suicides and deaths and finding siblings, and so it has to do with slowing the story down on paper and breathing, but it's. It's an example of the power of words, right? So if I were to say to you, jordan, you could do this with your clients or your people, you coach, it's a really powerful game. You can say. I would say to you hey, fill in the blank, I should blank. So what would you say?

Speaker 2:

part of me is I should be working, like I know I'm working right now, but the fill in the blank it's this like am I doing enough? Like that's kind of where I'm getting towards.

Speaker 1:

That's a story, right, that's a story and it has meaning, right? Okay, great. So when you say I should be working, tell me what you noticed, feeling wise.

Speaker 2:

I mean part of it, a question like if it's a. So I mean I just have so many conversations and I have to sit in this place like part of me sits in the gratitude of like oh, I'm grateful I can have all these conversations, and part of it's like that conversation did not move the needle forward for me, so it's like you run both of these things. Where am I like? Am I wasting time when I could have like a very nice breakfast with my wife, or when I'm trying to call random people to see if they'll join my coaching thing?

Speaker 1:

you know what I mean. It should be working like what emotion comes up I more of a I.

Speaker 2:

I feel like it's more not a fear, but it's more of a timing situation where it's like you want things to happen faster, like sometimes I feel the embrace which is like I know I'm good and I and I'm doing the right activity, or sometimes it's like I feel like uh, like a seesaw, like kind of teetering like a little bit of pressure oh, yeah, yeah, okay, I didn't want to yeah so cross out.

Speaker 1:

Visualize your. You've written this out on paper. Visualize yourself crossing out should and right could, and then say that statement.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I could be working. It feels like you feel a relief, oh damn.

Speaker 1:

We're just talking one word. Look at what just happened. I know, I know.

Speaker 2:

No, but I love this stuff because it's it's so important for people like the way you speak about yourself and like that's why, like I'm I'm constantly on this where it's like hey, an opportunity comes up and you're like, well, I can't do this, and it's like no, just say thank you, and like we'll see how it plays out, because if you do that, you're at least leaving the area open to this positivity. And when you're so hard on yourselves, like I'm always no, it's always not, like it's funny, yeah, no. I mean people like I was on the phone with someone and I was like oh, maybe we should do like a Sonic hold lunge, and their default thing is a no, like their default to no. Because they're like I want to save money and I'm like yeah, but like you should definitely come, like it'd be a lot of fun, and they're like okay, okay, like, because there is someone who can definitely afford it. But they're like money is prime, like you know what.

Speaker 1:

I mean.

Speaker 2:

Like, like I, and that's the challenging for a lot of people is like their default responses that they don't realize and I, you just showed me, belief is always stronger than fact, and the stories that we tell create the mindset right.

Speaker 1:

So yes, there's two more steps to this process. I want you to say take out could and say and put in can oh, I can work I can work more yeah now do this.

Speaker 2:

I can work more because I can work more because I have the energy. I'm positive, I can support myself now I can't so awesome.

Speaker 1:

So that's an affirmation. You take that into like a mirror and you start doing that seven times a day. That's gonna have some real validity, versus like the guy who gets told by the therapist who hates himself. I want you to go home and sit in front of the mirror and tell yourself you love yourself 10 times. All that that fucking guy's going to get is more shame and fucking misery.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 1:

Think about so when they say what's the, what is the mother of all skill?

Speaker 2:

repetition Okay.

Speaker 1:

So if I am a guy who does not like myself and I'm in the mirror and I'm saying I love myself and I elicit a shame response, what am I practicing? What am I repeating? I'm firing the shame receptor, I'm firing the shame pathway. Oh, so I'm actually hurting myself.

Speaker 1:

Oh but if I can get to the meaning of something, I we can. So the the should game is amazing because we call it a should detox. You're no one ever says, oh, I should try almond milk instead of like. It's always going to be a place that they're stuck on right and so you get to the end result where it's like I can do this because.

Speaker 1:

And then you come up with this positive attribute about who you are. And then I would say your thing is, you're pressured because you have choices. So what if we took? And then the work I would do with you as a coach? I would say, hey, I would have it on the screen. So I would say I can work more, right because. And then you said, because I have the energy and I would take out, because I have the energy and I would cross out energy and I would put options.

Speaker 2:

So try that statement I can work more because I have options.

Speaker 1:

Yeah 100%. Look at your face. Do you see how it affects the emotion?

Speaker 1:

The charge that most people. So that's the work that got me unstuck. This is the process that I, when I say writing and looking at language, and then every day where my inner critic and my subconscious would come back and want to whip my ass, I would. And then every day where my inner critic and my subconscious would come back and want to whip my ass, I would. I was pulling out affirmations from the languages that I was, I had done exercises the day before, and then I would take the affirmation that I pulled from a statement of meaning that had emotion for me and I would say fuck you this is what we're doing.

Speaker 2:

I can work because I have options.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Dude, I love it, I love it, it. That's awesome. I I wish it wasn't. Oh, we'll have to do a second one.

Speaker 1:

We'll have to do a second one.

Speaker 2:

But, jason, where can people learn more about you? Where can they learn about emotion?

Speaker 1:

so we have our websites, just emotionwellnesscom. Um that we have an insta. Our insta is emotionwellnesstherapy and then facebook is emotion wellness therapy. We have a youtube channel. Uh, if you just search, if you go on youtube and search emotion wellness, but you got to put the hyphen in, it'll bring up our youtube channel. And then we have a podcast that I do, just like you're. You know you got yours. Um, that we do. Our three pillars are resources, education and personal stories of triumph. So that's a great place to our YouTube channel's probably got the most in our website. It has a bunch of videos of like we host events and we raise money for non-profits and stuff like that.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I'll put all of that in the show notes and I just want to say thank you so much this was awesome.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for having me dude. Yeah, I'm glad we got to finally do.

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Jordan Edwards

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