#Clockedin with Jordan Edwards

#230 - The Psychology of Investing and Success

• Jordan Edwards • Season 5 • Episode 230

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What happens when your income hits a ceiling? Rob Levin, founder of CIS Ventures LLC, reveals the missing link between working hard and achieving true financial freedom on this eye-opening episode of #Clocked In. 

Money isn't just numbers on a balance sheet—it's the fuel that powers your options in life. Rob pulls back the curtain on how investing serves as the critical bridge between trading time for dollars and creating sustainable wealth that works while you sleep. But his insights go far deeper than portfolio management.

Drawing from his experience during the 2008 financial crisis, Rob delivers a masterclass on human motivation that applies to every business, relationship, and life project. "Everybody was doing exactly what they were incentivized to do. The problem was those interests weren't aligned." This profound observation explains why smart people make catastrophic decisions collectively and offers a framework for creating systems where individual interests serve shared goals.

The conversation takes an unexpectedly holistic turn as Rob shares his personal well-being assessment framework spanning mental health, physical fitness, community service, relationships, and spirituality. His candid ratings on each dimension reveal how a successful investor maintains balance while navigating high-stakes ventures. His no-nonsense approach to physical health—"eat clean food, prioritize sleep, and just move"—cuts through the noise of complex wellness trends.

Perhaps most valuable is Rob's practical advice for navigating today's investment landscape. He distinguishes between fleeting fads and sustainable trends, offering a "gold rush" strategy that's particularly relevant in the AI boom: "Don't bet on which prospector will strike gold—sell the shovels." This infrastructure-focused approach provides a steadier path to returns in rapidly evolving markets.

Whether you're just starting to think beyond your 401k or looking to refine your investment philosophy, Rob's measured wisdom provides a refreshing alternative to the get-rich-quick schemes flooding social media. Connect with Rob at cisventures.net and start building wealth that gives you what matters most—options.

How to reach Rob:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rlevin?trk=public_post_feed-actor-name

To Reach Jordan:

Email: Jordan@Edwards.Consulting

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9ejFXH1_BjdnxG4J8u93Zw

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jordan.edwards.7503

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jordanfedwards/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordanedwards5/



Hope you find value in this. If so please provide a 5-star and drop a review.

Complimentary Edwards Consulting Session: https://calendly.com/jordan-555/intro-call

Speaker 1:

Hey, what's going on, guys? We've got a special guest here. We have Rob Levin. He's the founder of CIS Ventures LLC. Rob, we're excited to have you on the Hashtag Clocked In podcast. Why is investing important?

Speaker 2:

Wow, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me. Why is investing important? Well, I mean, take that in a couple of different perspectives. I mean, if you're a business, it's important so that you continue to grow and innovate and have resources and can achieve whatever mission it is that you've set out to do with the company, and I think that the same holds true in your personal's. Like you know, how do you take the resources that you've accumulated and turn them into more resources, so that you know you have the. You know. I think my view is you know the money is, you know it's a scorecard, but it's the thing that gives you optionality, it's the thing that allows you to do the things that you want to do in life, and so I think investing is just a key component of that. You only have so much time that you can trade for money, so you're going to hit that ceiling at a certain point and investing, kind of you know, closes the gap between that and you know all of the other goals that you have.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I find a lot of people focus so much on like how much am I making this year? What's my income? What's the? This? The back end of it is completely forgotten about. It is completely forgotten about and people are not paying attention to that. And that's really your side hustle or your other way of making money. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean. Yeah, absolutely. I mean. You know the best businesses are the ones that you know continue to make money while you're asleep, right? So it's the ones that continue to. You know to throw off, you know additional returns when you're not doing anything, and you know that's a great place to be.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, Because it helps so many people and it really does bring it all together and for you. So what do you think is for you? You've had a lot of success in your career. You've done a lot of incredible things. What do you think is the best way to get everybody aligned on the real vision and the values? Because I feel like a misalignment can be devastating to a business, career, family unit. It can be really challenging for everyone.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean that's a big question to unpack. I think you really have to sort of boil it down to. You know first principles and really understand human behavior a little bit. You know, if you really look into you know what motivates people and why people do the things they do, and you know I've had the. You know what motivates people and why people do the things they do and you know I've had the. You know the luck, the pleasure, the good fortune to have, you know, lived in the US but also lived in Hong Kong and London and traveled, and you know how many countries.

Speaker 2:

At this point, and one of the things you realize after you know having that kind of experience is it doesn't matter if you're in Dubai, paris, london, new York, miami, singapore, hong Kong. At the core of it people are wired the same right. I mean it really is interesting If you sit in a bar in Dubai at eight o'clock next to some other business person from France, they're worried about the same things you are. They have the same aspirations that you do at their core. They may have a different language, they may have different experiences, but at the core of it we are all wired to do what's in our own best interest, first and foremost. And I think that that's something that not enough people understand and it doesn't make people bad, it doesn't make mean that they're wrong. But but you know we are wired to survive and procreate, and you know, and that's really at the core of everything that we do, and you know everybody talks about, you know Maslow's hierarchy of needs and you know getting to that self-actualization, and but you know you really have to look, you know, down that pyramid at the foundation and it really is it's survival and you have to do. You know those things that are going to keep you alive, first and foremost. And you know, given that we're all wired that way, you really have to make sure that you understand that core principle. Whenever you're, it doesn't matter if it's a family unit, a business, a nonprofit, you know, whatever, an individual project, you know people will always do what's in their best interest. And once you understand that, then you can sort of take a step back and say, okay, here's where we're going or here's what we want to achieve. How do I incentivize the people that I need to get on board, to align around that? And you know, I know that.

Speaker 2:

You know we had talked before about you know the 2008 financial crisis and what happened there and how can so many people have been wrong and all these people did all these bad things? But I had a finance business in 2008, when the world crashed, that didn't survive that time period. We didn't come out on the other side of you know that time period. You know we didn't come out on the other side and after that I spent a lot of time looking at you know behavioral economics and psychology and all this other stuff to say, like what happened here, like how could so many quote unquote smart, educated people get this wrong or miss it? And it was eye-opening to see that everybody in the system was doing exactly what they were incentivized to do. There was not anybody in there that was operating against their best interest. The problem was those interests weren't aligned right.

Speaker 2:

So if you think about what happened in 08 and then followed into 09, this was the. If we just take the mortgage business as an example investors wanted yield, so investment banks and the financial geniuses created structures that had yield, but they wanted yield with low risk. So they went to the rating agencies and they said, hey, we want this yield, but we need to find a way to make it investment grade or low risk. And they did what they were supposed to do. And then you just go down the line the mortgage bankers, the brokers and even the people taking out the mortgages all along the line everybody was acting in their own best interest. But when you pull back and look across it, those interests were not aligned.

Speaker 2:

So that's when you I, in everything that you do, whether it's in your company or in your family or, you know, even in a project with your friends you know that that, I think is is something that people just don't appreciate and don't spend enough time on and don't think about enough.

Speaker 2:

So, if anything you know you really have to think about how do you align everybody around the same thing? And you know, I think the second part of it is and then you've got to communicate that to everyone, right? People can't read your mind, people don't know what you're thinking, people don't. You know. You just because you know and you think you're being clear. My old business partner used to say communication is message delivered, message received. And just because you delivered a message doesn't mean it was received, and you need to make sure you've got both of those covered and I think if people would just, you know, they seem simple, but they're not easy, right, they're not. It's pretty basic stuff, but everybody just goes past that or ignores it. And then they wonder like I don't understand, why people aren't doing you know what I want them to do.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, absolutely. I 100% agree, and that's why, with Edwards Consulting, we have five pillars. We have mental health, physical health, community service, philanthropy, spirituality and relationships, and we always go through with all clients is figuring out where people are at today and where do they want to be. So, rob, for you, mental health wise, just today, like it's March 7th at 10 am, what do you think your mental health on a one to 10 is Like? Where would you be?

Speaker 2:

With 10 being, you know everything's perfect, the world's at peace, everybody's happy, and one being you know total, you know total disaster and you know, ready to go jump in bed and suck my thumb for the day, um, I would think, uh, you know, I think today, uh, you know probably a six or a seven. You know it's not perfect, but, um, you know things feel pretty good and you know, um, I'm pretty good place, good relationship, you know, pretty, pretty secure, pretty happy. So I would say, you know, let's say it's a seven.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and then what would a look like for you?

Speaker 2:

Wow, that's a great question. Um, I, you know, I I'm, I'm sitting here thinking like, is there a 10? Like is there a time where everything you know, because across your, across your pillars right, you have five, you know we're talking about I sort of look at three. They would mean all of those are, quote, in the green right, all of them are going well at the same time, everybody, everything's happy, and you know, you know, the three for me are, um, uh, financial, you know, family and relationships. So, like you know, it's really interesting.

Speaker 2:

You know, and I would guess I'd put this back to you it's like when in your life are all three of those just perfectly aligned your family's happy, your financial situation's good, your relationships are, you know, going great, all at the same time, all at the same level. You know that's a pretty rare instance, I would think for most people. You know you're always having, you know, relationship might be great, but, you know, maybe you're struggling on your business side a little bit, you know, right now, you know you got to bring that back up, Of course I mean.

Speaker 1:

The reason I asked the question of what a 10 looks like is because all of us have different definitions of what a 10 could be Right. So sometimes, mental health wise, a 10, some people who are very happy and content it would be. Hey, I woke up today Like everyone's got a different perspective on what this might be and that's what opens up a lot of the optionality for us. You know what I mean. So we all sit here and we think about there's so many challenges in the world, but it's like, what is our definition? And the reason I ask people to define a 10 is just because once we have it defined, then we know what it is, so that once we achieve it, it's not that, oh, that was a 10 on this day, but now it's not a 10 anymore because it's important. It's really important. So, physical wise, what do you think you're out on? A one to 10?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think that's one where I would say I'm closer to an eight or nine. I think it's really important for me. You know I pay attention to it a lot. I didn't used to and you know. You know I learned the hard way that. You know, if you don't feel good physically, it just impacts everything that you do. So you know I spend a lot of time, you know, just thinking about, you know my, you know my physical well-being moving, eating, sleeping.

Speaker 1:

You know those kind of things. And what's the regimen? Because there might be people listening right now who are like I'm at a one, like, yeah, rob, it's great that you're out of the eight, what are you doing?

Speaker 2:

How do you get to that? Yeah, so you know, a business that we had founded, me and two partners, was called the Center for Health and Human Performance and you know it sounds like a very aspirational thing. You know we're trying to maximize human performance. Operational thing. You know, we're trying to maximize human performance and it was really interesting, our chief medical officer, who really put the you know, the clinical side of the program together for us. You know we were expecting him to come up with all these crazy you know supplements and you know therapies and stuff. And he, you know, we would go in there and talk to him and he's just like, look, how do you sleep, how do you eat, how do you move? If you don't fix those three things, anything that I do is just going to be putting a bandaid on it or just exacerbating whatever is underlying.

Speaker 2:

So to me, it's really am I eating the right things? I stick to a pretty clean diet. I don't know that I would categorize it, as you know, keto or paleo or anything like that. It's just, you know, eat clean food. You know I want my food to be an ingredient, not have ingredients. So, you know, just keep it simple. You know, prioritize sleep. You know, try and get, you know, seven, eight hours a night. There's very, very, very few of us who can really perform on less Um and then just do some physical activity.

Speaker 1:

you know you know, does that be?

Speaker 2:

every day, but, you know, five days a week, six days a week, whether that's just taking the dog for a walk, Um, I happen to, you know, be a little bit more of a maniac. So I do a lot of, uh, mixed martial arts and weightlifting. I mean that's my outlet, uh, for that, Uh, so I've done MMA, uh, boxing, kickboxing and jujitsu, Um, so you know, I've just, you know, to me that it's just a great outlet and I love it. And you know, you'll find people in that world they either absolutely love it or they don't do it.

Speaker 2:

There's, there's very little middle ground in, you know, in that, in that sport and that kind of training, Um, and then I just do some weight training, uh, you know, a couple of days a week, uh, outside of that. But to me, like, those are the fundamental things, Um, and again, it's not right for everyone, you know, but just do something right Clean up your diet, eat, eat good food, good, healthy food, get you know the right amount of sleep and you know, just move. You know, like I said, you could just take a walk every day, that's, that's fine. Just get out and move around, Um, and it doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely yeah, it's creating systems that really help. Like for me, I started joining there was a Muay Thai gym that's at 6amm on Tuesday and Thursday because I was trying to do morning workouts too. Monday, wednesday, friday was lifting, tuesday, thursday is Muay Thai and I started getting into it. And I think the reason people like it so much is one it's a self-defense, so you start to get to learn about your body, and then you learn about your body in space. So you're learning something while training the body to do this new activity, which becomes a very fun environment, and I think I'd encourage everyone to go try something out or try to get into a system that could help that. And then for you, uh, the next pillar is community service philanthropy, so it's basically helping people on a one to ten like where do you think you're at in that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, right now that you know I've probably fallen off a bit just because of you know some other priorities, but it's always an important thing. You know, I'd probably say now it's a four or five. In the past it's been higher. I've been on nonprofit boards and I've done a lot of service work.

Speaker 1:

What made you go on those nonprofit boards? What made you think about that? Because I know our days can be so inundated with a business. I have my family, I have this, so to give time to other people is such a. What are you talking about, Rob?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so one is. You know, and I think this you know it sounds a little bit cliche, but you know it was. You know, do I believe in the mission of this organization? Do I think this? You know it sounds a little bit cliche, but you know it was. You know, do I believe in the mission of this organization? Do I think I can help it, you know and achieve that.

Speaker 2:

So, first and foremost, it was I've been on two nonprofit boards in the last six years and in both cases, you know we love the mission and the people and what they were trying to do. In both cases they were fairly unique, you know, in terms of how they were helping the community. You know, one was an organization that's growing. You know, when I, when I, when I first, the reason I got connected to them was prior to that my, you know, the extent of my helping organizations was writing checks and that that's fine. And they you know all organizations, you know need money. But it seemed to me like a cop out right. It's like ah, here here's some money, go away. You know, sure, I'm helping and you know I I feel good, but what's more valuable than money is time. And so this whole organization is built around that, where they take lawyers, consultants, people from Deloitte, from Boston Consulting, from the investment world, from all kinds of technology, and they put them together in teams and they say, okay, you're a small nonprofit, you're never going to be able to afford to hire BCG to come in and do a project for you, but you know we will make those people available to you for X amount of time to help you with Y problem.

Speaker 2:

And the nonprofits got more out. I mean they would tell us you know they got more out of that than you know. They couldn't put a dollar value on what it was right Because you're really helping them to grow the organization, build for the future, be sustainable. And you know, to me that was just. It was like what a great thing to offer to. You know these small nonprofits and when I say small, you know we're talking about. You know nonprofits that were still hundreds of millions of dollars big, but you know these small nonprofits and when I say small, you know we're talking about nonprofits that were still hundreds of millions of dollars big, but you know their budgets are pretty allocated.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, a lot of the time, the nonprofit does not have the business centricness and they don't, they don't, they're not going to be able to bring in these high level people. So I think that's a beautiful activity and you find that like when you're're in the system, when you're helping out and when you're contributing, you get a lot from it, they get a lot from it. It's a win-win for everyone, which I think is incredible.

Speaker 2:

yeah, yeah, it was incredibly gratifying to do that. I mean, you know it was. You know, okay, I'm doing more work after work for no money, but you know they're, they were just just so grateful for what we were able to do for them, and so identifying with the mission has got to be, you know, number one. And to me it was like, okay, how can I contribute? You know more than just you know writing a check and you know going about my way.

Speaker 1:

And I think the dividend is realizing. It helps your perspective when you're able to help people that are in need like any of us can do this we all have. Homelessness is massive across the United States. All you have to do is go to the food store, spend 20 bucks, go bring the person a meal and they'd be incredibly indebted to you, and people don't realize that everybody can be helping right now. So I think that's awesome that you shared that through that way.

Speaker 2:

Now the next one.

Speaker 1:

I know you're probably pretty high on is relationships, because I know it's one of your pillars, so it overlaps. So what do you think about relationships on a one to ten?

Speaker 2:

I think you know I do focus on that as kind of you know, and this is one of those things that you just kind of learn over time and it's one of those where you have to realize that it's not good to fix it. But I would say you know right now that that's pretty high on my list is probably a seven or eight in terms of so really know the value of relationships and you know, I don't know what the demographic of your audience is, but if they're in the younger side or even sort of in, you know, the early part of their career, it's the single most important thing in, you know, in your life, right, businesses are people coming together for a common goal. Right, I mean, that is what it is, and so the key there is the people. Right, you know, businesses are not these amorphous things that just kind of you know, wander around the planet. It's, you know, it's people.

Speaker 2:

And I'll never forget just a quick aside that when I first started in the private equity investing, you know, m&a world, I was working for a firm and we had a lawyer who was a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant deal lawyer, but he was miserable all the time. It was just a running joke in the office. He was just miserable. And one day, you know, he was sitting at his desk and you know paper everywhere and he was, you know, muttering something to himself and I was like his name was Len, I'm like Len, what is going on? Like what's wrong? And he said this business would be great if it weren't for all the fucking people. And I was like that is the business. I'm like that is it. Like the business is not a spreadsheet and a bunch of legal documents, it's the people. That is like.

Speaker 2:

That's not the first and won't be the last time I've heard that kind of sentiment and so it's just goes to the core of like you just need to have good, open, honest, you know relationships with people. You're not going to get along with everyone, everyone's not going to be your best friend, but you know you, you, as long as you're, you know you're true to yourself, you're honest, you, you know you communicate with people, you'll find you know that most everybody will be, if not receptive to it, at least respect the fact that you do it. And I think that that's really what it boils down to. And you know, as you progress through your career, you will realize how important. The people you meet and the connections that you make are beyond anything else. So I think you know that that's something I've spent a lot of energy to try and work on, and so right now you know that's pretty high for me.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and I think it comes down to also maintaining those relationships, because we don't realize how many of our relationships everyone from high school to college, to early jobs, to late jobs, to wherever we meet them. So one of the easy ways I do this and I just share this because it's an easy way around Christmas time, like between Christmas and New Year's, most people aren't doing anything. So I literally go through my phone and I send voice notes to everyone, like it'd be like hey, hey, rob, like hope you're doing well, hope CIS is doing amazing and I hope you're having an incredible year. And I literally do that for everyone that I think there might be a connection, for Cause I sit there and I go it's seven seconds, like person worth seven seconds and you sit there whoa, it's a lot of people, there's 2000 people but it's like why would you not do the little thing to maintain the relationship? Because a lot of the time it's just reach out to someone and they'll reach back out to you like you have to lead with how you want to go about it.

Speaker 1:

Because I think that's such an important thing and especially you, you know it too that the bigger you get and the more people in your life, the better. Your experience is like yes, you're you're going to have more deaths. Yes, you're going to have more cancers. Yes, there's going to be more negative things that occur, but you can be there for your friends and family and business like everyone. You work with clients, et cetera. I think it's so important and it's missed a lot of the time. The last one is spirituality. I don't know if people omit this Some people connect with it.

Speaker 2:

Is there anything for you that's, you know, a really interesting part of my life right now? Because I've, you know, I grew up in a, you know, middle class Jewish household in New Jersey. You know we weren't particularly religious, but you know it was around and you know we got bar mitzvahed and did all that stuff and you know I just personally kind of grew out of that, got a little bit disillusioned with it and kind of, you know, you just I wouldn't say I became a hardcore atheist, but you know, I kind of just didn't. Religion didn't click with me and for about you know, 10 or 15 years there I would say I could even tell you what spirituality meant or what any of that that was. And it wasn't until about six or seven years ago that, you know, I kind of felt like there was something missing. There was like there's, there's this hole somewhere and I couldn't figure out what it was. And and I think I landed on, you know, and I like your, your, your word here, spirituality is cause it's, you know, it doesn't mean that you, you know, believe in some, you know particular God or not, or whatever.

Speaker 2:

I think it's just being like realizing, like that that we are all connected in the universe. Like there there is this, you know fabric to it, and um, you start realizing that and and you just try it not not just you but the people listening just just try it like if you leave the house and you're miserable and you have negative energy and you're just down on everything, guess what the world's going to look like that and you're putting that out and you know, and people will respond to it. And if you walk out and happy and you say hi to people, even if you're just, you know, calm and, uh, you know, and just sort of satisfied, people react differently to that and you don't even have to say anything, right? I mean, you know, if you walk down the street, you walk into a coffee shop and somebody's miserable, they don't have to say anything to you, you just pick it up and feel it.

Speaker 2:

And to me, like that's spirituality, it's like how do you, you know, connect with the rest of the you know of the world and, and you know, the universe, however you want to, you know, say it is, you know, is that? So for me, you know, like it's not. It's certainly not, you know, as high as some of the other areas, but it's higher now than it's ever been. You know, if I said, you know, if I say it's a four or five, like that is not, you may say, well, that's really low, but that's, you know, that's my base of zero.

Speaker 1:

Rob for. The thing for you, though, is everyone has their own rating right.

Speaker 1:

So, we don't have to do this rate. So if your rating is hey, my spirituality is a 10, if every time I go on and talk to someone, I'm excited and happy to be not saying you're happy but like you're at least eluding an aura of hey, everything's going to be all right, we're going to live, we're going to be all right and we're going to get there, because we can control whatever our tens are, and I think that's the most important thing that everyone defines success is like how the world views it. Oh, you have to go to church eight times a week, or you have to go to synagogue 10 times a week, or whatever it is.

Speaker 1:

You don't have to do any of that dog 10 times a week or whatever it is. You don't have to do any of that. You have to do whatever is right for you and I think that's so often so awesome and I appreciate your authentic ability around there, because you have traveled a lot, you've had a lot of experiences, you met a lot of people. So do you think travels had a big impact in that for you? Because I know traveling broadens the horizons, it brings the perspective together, like how have you, how has that helped you with? Like just everything we've been discussing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like I can't agree with you more. Like getting out of your, you know, out of your comfort zone or your hometown or that you know, that small world that you grow up in for for most people is eyeopening. I mean, it makes you really appreciate. I mean, first of all, it gives you first-hand real experience about other people in other places. And it's not some boogeyman, it's not some strange world, it's not something you make up in your head. You go there and you see the people, you see how they live, you see what they eat and how they work and what their values are and um, and you, you know, and you connect with them and you're like, oh, just cause, this person speaks Mandarin and you know, lives in Beijing. Like they're, they're still good people, they're still happy, they're still doing like a lot of the same things. They're not this. You know this crazy. You know two horn thing with a tail running around. Like you know. Crazy, you know two horn thing with a tail running around. Like you know, you build up all these, you know these ideas in your head.

Speaker 2:

So getting out, you know, it gives you that direct exposure and allows you to sort of see that you know and it also allows you to sort of appreciate that, you know, I don't know how much travel you've done in different parts of the world, but you know, we, we here in America, you know, we think something that's from the 1600s is old, right. And I have a friend who lives in Northern England, just on the border of Wales, and he lives in his family estate which was built in the 1200s. I mean, that's his house, right, and that's not even the oldest thing around there. And then, you know, you go to other parts of the world and you realize, like you know, this is the world didn't start the day I was born, right? And you really get that.

Speaker 2:

You see these amazing things that people were doing in 16 BC and building, and you realize, wow, we're pretty much just like them. Sure, maybe we've got 50-inch flat screen TVs now, but what was the equivalent of a 50-inch TV back in the you know, 600s, right? I mean, they were still, you know, able to do a whole lot of really amazing things. They didn't have the internet, they didn't have AI, they didn't have TV and podcasts and all this other stuff. But you know, that's the foundation we all build off of today, like, without that, there's no this, so I think it just gives you that perspective.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've traveled a good amount and what I realized is like I ended up. It all started when I studied abroad, in Rome, italy, during college, and then afterwards we've been going international once a year and then last year we actually did seven weeks in Europe, me and my wife, and we just bounced around and we were working remote. And the thing that no one realizes is that back in the day, like, a lot of these people never moved. And then you're looking like the 1900s, everyone like 17 1800s, everyone's farmers, you got the militia, you got the military.

Speaker 1:

Then you start moving to the 1900s everyone's in the industrial revolution, we're all just kind of working in our area. Then the airplane becomes invented and you're like oh, like we can fly. And it wasn't affordable back then. Now it's becoming more and more affordable. So the times are just completely changing to where this like the world's kind of small, like for a thousand bucks you can literally fly anywhere in the world and that's pretty cool, like I know that might be a lot for some people and it might be. It is what it is. But if you prioritize it, you can experience incredible things and start to see the world in a completely different way.

Speaker 1:

So for you also one more thing I would say. On that, I think you're 100 percent right.

Speaker 2:

But the other thing that it does is it also shows you like there's another way, right, we all think like the American way or the is the way and it's the right way and the only way way and it's the right way and the only way. And then you know you go to. I just remember you know spending, I spent, you know I went, I had taken a job and, well, taking a job, we started our company and I was in London, and so, on the weekends, like, talk about it, you could, for $19, you can get an Orion Air flight and go to Portugal or Spain or Italy. It's amazing and that's what you would do on the weekend. Right, it's an hour and 20 minute flight to Barcelona, so you would fly down there and you would realize like they take a nap in the afternoon and their pace is the squares and they're having a glass of wine and they're talking and they're you know, they're not like it's amazing to see, uh, even today, you know, and this is not, you know, like we're talking about, you know, a hundred years ago, you go there. They're not on their phones, they're not looking down and they're talking to each other and there's no um, if you. But? But go back to the friend of mine who lives in Northern England.

Speaker 2:

Every single Friday and this is a very, very small place, right? I mean, this is a town it's called Shropshire, it's I don't know a few hundred people and there's one local pub and every Friday pretty much the whole town goes to that pub somewhere between five and 7 PM. And I remember going there the first time and a couple of things that were just like to me as an American. You know you're in a pub, so there's a bar, there's no ESPN on TV, there's no TV there. You're not there to watch TV and be distracted. The other thing was interesting is you don't tip, like they're not. Like. You know I remember the full pause.

Speaker 2:

You know I got a round of beers and I left five pounds on the bar and the guy was just like what's this? Like you forgot your money. I'm like well, no, that's for you. And he was looking at me like almost insulted about it. And you know they're like look, you know he makes his money selling you the beer. Don't worry, like that's. You know we don't do that over here. So you do get a different perspective and then you can figure out like, oh, maybe I can incorporate some of that, maybe I don't have to work 24 seven and be on my phone all the time and I can take a break and I look around and like, yeah, maybe you know, the people are making millions of dollars a year at even aspire, and a lot of them don't even aspire to that. They're like we're fine.

Speaker 1:

Like this is good, this is what life is all about. Yeah, and it's completely different viewpoint and it makes you think really differently, like the biggest one for me was we did a trip uh 2021, me and three buddies we went to the inca trail and we hiked four days and then we were in peru and then we went to this place called equidos.

Speaker 1:

I remember going out there and I was paying for all five of us and we went different bars, we went all food, full meal, everything. It was like 200 for five of us, which is just bizarre. Like you can go out now and have spent 200 by yourself, and it was crazy concept because you start to realize like, hey, maybe I'm focusing, maybe I'm on the wrong train, and that train I'm thinking is like with america, where it's also like you're, you're constantly a hamster on the wheel, no matter who you are, because you're like that guy's got this car, does his car go the same place? Yes, you drive faster. I mean, yeah, but there's still a speed limit, but it's still like. It's like I want the car, but the car is literally the same. Like you start to realize that it's all the same stuff and and it's like how do you really get to enjoy your life to the fullest, because we have so much more optionality now?

Speaker 1:

Now, one of the big things with you, rob, is that you are big into investing. How can people even get started with this? Because I have a lot of friends, a lot of family, a lot of people I know that say I'm making my money, I don't need to do the investing thing. Like, my 401k will take care of me. Like, should, is that enough Like? Or people should be doing more? Or how should they think about this? Because, as you know, there's a ton of like. Oh, I want to be a trader, I want to be a drop shipper, I want to be a this, I want to be a that. Like, how should?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so to be clear, so I started my career as an equity analyst, right? So analyzing companies, for you know, we were a buy side equity analyst, so should you buy this company? At what price value? Like you know, and it's very academic and pretty, you know, model driven.

Speaker 2:

You know that I felt I was missing, was just like, okay, this is great. But you know you didn't have any connection to like the business itself, like what are they actually doing? You know, at the end of the day, on the customer side of things, or internally, or where they're going. So I slowly transitioned out of that, you know, in my business career to, you know, to running businesses, and then you know the investing that I do is in companies, you know, to running businesses, and then you know the investing that I do is in companies, right. So to me, that's a great way to do two things. One is, yes, you can make money, you know, betting on the right. You know I say betting, investing in the right teams and the right companies in the right space. But it also gives you a sense of like you're helping somebody else to achieve what it is that they're you passionate about, and and so there's there's sort of a.

Speaker 1:

Can you explain that, because I know to you it might be super easy, like give someone money and it helps them with their path. What does that even mean?

Speaker 2:

like, yeah. So I mean, like you know business, you know you have an idea, you know you have a problem that you want to solve. You think you've got this unique way of doing it. Or or you know some you know new thing that you know, that you know generally starts with a problem that you're having or something that you're seeing, and then you want to, you know, be able to turn that into a business. Well, you need certain things to do that. You need resources, and one of those is financial resources. You need money. At some point you need to be able to generate it and you know you can do that by, you know, bootstrapping it, by just going out and trying to hustle and sell stuff and you know try and you know, get in enough revenue to cover the bills and then eventually make some money. That's certainly nothing wrong with that. It's what I did with my first business. But you know, but getting outside capital, getting outside investment, you know, can help accelerate that. It can help you to go faster, build more, hire more and better people, to get you there in a shorter amount of time or with a better ultimate product or solution.

Speaker 2:

And the money that we put into companies, that's what it's for, right, it's, it's, you know, it's it's it's really about. You know, is this a you know, is this a good team, is this a good idea? And do I think that there's, you know, a high probability of success, and what we're there to do is enable that success. Right, that's the way we have to think about it. And and so, you know, the payoff at the end is twofold. It's, you know. One, it's financial, and if they do well, then great, you're going to get a nice return on your, on your investment.

Speaker 2:

And two, it's you know seeing, you know, jordan, to you know, actually build a business and hire people and put something out into the world and, you know, make a difference. And then maybe Jordan goes on and takes some of that money and invests in the next group of Jordans that are out there and takes a little bit of it and, you know, does some philanthropy or sets up a foundation, and you know so. But it all starts with that sort of, you know that initial amount of capital to you know, to sort of help get the flywheel started or help, to you know, to ignite that, that business. And so that's you know.

Speaker 2:

Obviously, you know, like, I'm not going to share anything that you probably haven't heard a million times about fundamentals and looking at the business, like that's pretty, you can learn that anywhere, right. But it's sort of like how do you take that and translate it into something that's bigger than that? And that's why I say it's. You know, the two payoffs are both financial as well as you know, experiential, or you know giving back in some way.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. And when you really think about that, like Rob was giving an example of like a small I mean I was hearing it was like a startup, like someone starting up a business doing that. That same principle applies to the stock market as well. So when you think about it, like if you want to get, if you have an Apple phone and you want to go to Apple and you want to be able to support Apple so that they have all their employees, you could buy a share of Apple and that can make a difference there, because all you're doing here is really putting it all back together, like you are reinvesting and you're supporting these other businesses that you think are operating well, and I think that's a brilliant thing. And now the other part of it was we talked about how there's so many get rich quick things online. Should people be signing up for courses or should? How should they think about this?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like I'm not. I'm not saying that that nobody should ever take a course in anything. I mean, you've got to study the markets that you're in, you've got to know the basics, and I'm a huge fan of lifelong learning and constantly opening up to new things. But I think where people get a little bit off track there is, you know, I have a very big philosophy around fads and trends. Right, and you know fads are exactly that they're here today, they're gone tomorrow, they're the hot thing at the moment and you know you never really want to be investing in or jumping on fads because they always, you know they go away and the next fad comes around. But trends, those are long term, sustainable things that have, you know, a real staying power, and so you really yeah, what might be a?

Speaker 2:

trend, you know so. So a trend would be, you know, aging, right. Demographics, right. So you know, you just look at a population and you know you've got more people retiring than coming into the workforce. That's a trend, Right, so that's not stopping anytime soon, you know. And so how do you kind of think about that? What are the impacts of that long term?

Speaker 2:

You know, unfortunately, you know, whether we like it or not, especially here in the West, inequality is a trend, right, it has been growing, you know, significantly, and that's a that's a tough one to slow down. So, when you've got a world of you know where that inequality is continuing to get bigger and bigger and bigger, what does that mean to the greater economy, the greater society? What does that mean to the greater economy, the greater society? Like, these are trends versus a fad. And these, you know they come and go. You know I don't want to get, you know, I don't know how to tell. You know, acronymic, you want to get a podcast.

Speaker 2:

But a few years back, you know, right around the time, about 2018, 19, 20, there was this. You know, the world was, you know, enamored with these things called SPACs, right, these special purpose acquisition vehicles, right. So and I remember, you know, as an investor, seeing all these you know folks coming to us and saying invest in our SPAC, put money in our SPAC. And SPACs have been around since the 70s this is not a new thing, right, and they serve a very specific purpose for a very specific need, and in a good year and I've talked to a lot of the banks that specialize in this you would have a dozen, maybe 15 SPAC transactions that would be out there, and in 2020, the beginning of 2020, there were over 900 of these in a single year. So we knew that that wasn't going to end well, but everybody was hearing about them on this podcast or on our, our Instagram feed or whatever, and they were just like I got to get in on this and I think, the biggest.

Speaker 2:

So I think the two things are one, stay away from FOMO. If the only reason you're doing it is because everyone else is doing it and you're afraid you're going to miss it not a good reason to do it. In anything you really got to think about, like what is going on here and is this sustainable? It doesn't make sense for me and whatever and that's the same thing in business strategy or whatever it's like, you don't get ahead of others by copying what they're doing, right, you're just going to be the same as them.

Speaker 2:

So, you know, don't just just because you hear about, like you said, you know I could too good to be true, or it's unbelievable, um. And then the same thing is is like you know the old saying, like, if you don't know who the sucker is at the table, it's you. Um, if somebody's selling you a course that says you can make 10 million dollars a year by taking my 300 course, really like, if you can make 10 million dollars a year, why are you selling it to me for 300? Like, and people just don't ask that question. They get caught up in the marketing hype and the pitch. And you know the guy's standing in front of his Lamborghini and his boat and his girlfriend in a bikini, and you know, and you're just you know, enamored by that and like, yeah, I'm going to get that and it, it, it just doesn't. You know, it never materialized.

Speaker 2:

It's great for them because they just sold you a course, but you really have to sort of think about whatever kind of investment you're doing and I don't care if it's Apple or an early stage startup or anything. It's like you really have to think like why am I making this investment? And your time is an investment, a course is an investment. Why am I spending? What do I hope to get out of this? Where is this going to go? Does it align with my values and what I want to do and all of these other things.

Speaker 2:

And if you're just a little bit, I don't want to, you know, people to be out there being miserable. But I think if you're just a little bit more skeptical and you think about it, you know it's that pause before making a decision. You know, and I've gotten very good at like I see it, even if I see something that's super interesting to me, I'll always put it down and come back to it 24 hours later. Is it still interesting 24 hours later, or was I just caught up in the moment? And sometimes you have to go back to it a few times before that. And for me at this point so I'm 54 now I've sort of, you know, had some good successes and I've had major failures as well and you sort of get to a point where it's like it's either hell yes or no, right it's either I got to love this thing or I'm just not going to do it.

Speaker 2:

And you realize that for every like in the investing world, like especially in the VC, you know, even in the PE space, everybody thinks like I got to get this deal done because you know it's the last deal I'm ever going to see. And you very quickly learn there's a, there's always going to be another deal. So even if I miss this one and, like you know, I look back at some of the deals that we passed on that went on to be, you know, incredible successes or rocket ships, and say, you know, boy, if I only. But you know you can't go back and change that and you know it's. You know. But guess what? There was another deal, and another deal and another deal. And you know so, even if you think like, oh man, I missed investing in Apple at eight bucks a share, yeah, I mean sure, but there's other stuff that that that is going to come the pike. And you know, maybe you'll think next time and you use that experience to, you know, to help guide what you do in the future.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think that made a really good point and there were two points I really liked. One was that the values you have, you agree with the, the founder, or you agree with the company and you agree with the, the values they're carrying. The other thing I appreciate was you sharing about some failures, because I mean we all have failures and it's like how do we overcome that? And you kind of gave some of those tips. So I know we're finishing up soon. How can people how do you see investments, like how do you see the future? And where should people maybe look at like maybe a trend that you're seeing or maybe something they can focus on to help them for the future?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think right now, you know you've got to kind of look at things in there. You know, with all of the present day information around, you know it's not to follow I sound like a broken record here but it's not to follow the latest fad and pour in after you know and follow everybody into a space just because you know it's being talked about a lot or hyped up a lot. And you know people talk about AI today and you know I was around during the dot com boom and bust and you know, I know a lot of people say it, but it I've seen this movie before. It feels exactly like that. You know it's very early, everybody's talking about it, people are investing in it, but it's so so we're so young in the game that nobody really knows. You know where this thing is going and it's.

Speaker 2:

And the rate of change I think that's a big thing that people miss today is the rate of change is. I think that's a big thing that people miss today is the rate of change is accelerating so quickly and that's very, very hard to kind of put into your you know, into your calculation of you know what should I invest in. You know, before it took a long time for markets to shift and technology to get adopted and things to change you and things to fundamentally move. And today that's happening at such a fast pace that you've really got to slow down a little bit and understand, like, where are we in this cycle of this industry, this market, whatever it is? Are we at the beginning or the middle or at the end? And every one of those has different characteristics, right, and so once you figure that out, then I think you're in a much better position to say okay, you know, I understand where we are early on in the cycle or in a bit more mature place in the cycle, here's what I can expect, here's what you know, here's where the risks are and I'm willing to take those risks you know in, you know, knowing full well that they're there, versus you know, if I put money into Coca-Cola today, you know I'm not going to get the same return as I put it into. You know, open AI two years ago, but pretty good chance, coca-cola isn't going to zero tomorrow. I mean, it's not going away. But early AI companies they're you know, they're here today, gone tomorrow, all the time. So that's just one example of it.

Speaker 2:

But I think, if you're asking more practically, I think, things like infrastructure and industries. When I first started investing, there was a in the public market side. We had a group for the firm I was working at that did a lot of investing in like biotech and and you know, sort of the next generation of medications and therapies and therapeutics that were coming out and it was a, it was a bet, it was a gamble, it was a straight up gamble. Uh, as to whether or not you know this. You know drug was going to ever make it to market and very few of them are blockbuster drugs in return. But what you realize is but everybody who's developing these things, needs microscopes and centrifuges and lab equipment.

Speaker 2:

The basics of the industry, so you can do the same thing with just about any industry. It's like look, I don't know which AI tool. You know application rag is going to win, but they all need compute power, they all need data centers, they all need. You know application rag is going to win, but they all need compute power, they all need data centers, they all need. You know certain things to build on, and especially early on in a cycle, just find those things, find the microscopes that that you know that they're buying and yeah, and, and you know, start there. And that'll also give you a good idea, if you're smart about it, to say oh, wait a minute, pfizer is buying a lot of microscopes. Man, what's going on over at Pfizer? And so it gives you an insight into what else might be happy in the market, in a way that you're still in the market, you're still investing, you're still making money, but it gives you that window into okay, now it's time to invest in Visor because they've got this thing that's happening In the gold rush.

Speaker 1:

You wanted to sell shovels, exactly, exactly. I love that. I love that because it gives you a way to get exposure to something without being totally on placing a bet on this specific thing operating and working to the best of its ability. I think that's completely awesome. Rob, where can people learn more about you? Where can they learn more about your business?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I. You know they can go to cisventuresnet. The website is. You know it's a work in progress. Right now we're cleaning it out. The new one should be launched in probably you know a couple of weeks here, but cisventuresnet. You can find me on LinkedIn. I'm not too big on the socials but if you have any questions or want to reach out, those are the two best places to do it and happy to have a conversation with anybody around investing and strategy and business and VC. Or if you just want to chat about something, give me a call. Absolutely Appreciate it.

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Jordan Edwards

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