In The Huddle
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In The Huddle
EP#41: The Danger of Letting Other's Opinions Get in the Way of Your Dreams with WA Softballer Mackayla Denney
WA Softballer Mackayla Denney sits down with Talent Coordinator Claire to discuss her regrets and mindset shifts she had to make in her softball recruiting journey. Filled with "say it louder for the people in the back" moments, Mackayla is a positive & high energy treasure trove of wisdom. This no questions barred podcast dives into the Division 1 or bust mentality, the danger of allowing others opinions to dictate your dreams and much more.
In the Huddle was created to give student athletes, parents, and coaches an inside look at the journey through U.S. college sport and all that comes with it. The demands, the experiences, the excitement, and the opportunities available to our student athletes from around the world. Study and Play USA facilitates a comprehensive, customized approach for student athletes and families for their whole journey from their high school preparation years right through to U.S. college graduation.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome, Michaela Dunny. We are here with Michaela Dunny, a softball player, and we'd love to hear a bit of your background, Michaela. I have the pleasure of interviewing Michaela all the way from Illinois. She's currently in America right now, but I would love for our audience if Michaela could give a bit of background about who she is and where she's come from.
SPEAKER_02:Hi, my name is obviously Michaela. I'm from uh Port Headland, uh Western Australia, but I moved to Perth back in 2018. Um I am over in the US playing softball at Lakeland College in Mattoon, Illinois, so central Illinois, about three hours away from Chicago. Very cold. Um a little bit about me. I started playing softball back when I was about 12 with my mom. Um played state for Western Australia, and then I made the Australian team, the under 18th national team, to travel. Unfortunately, due to COVID, we could not travel, which was very disappointing. Um decided that in grade 11 I wanted to go to college, uh, which was pretty late considering like how early some people decide that they want to go to college. Um it's probably one thing I wish I changed. I wish I had like decided a little bit earlier. It would have made the process a little bit easier, not so rushed, I think. Um, but yeah, I spoke to quite a few schools around the US and then settled on Lakeland, which is a junior college. So yeah, that's me.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. Thanks for sharing. I wanted to unpack quickly the bit where you said that you wish you had started earlier because other people start earlier. So, as you know from being there, college is at the forefront of everyone's mind in America as early as grade eight and grade seven.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Uh everyone's thinking about it. You're thinking about a bunch of different stuff. So, can you talk a little bit about people that you now are friends with in the US and kind of helping Aussies understand the recruiting timeline?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, absolutely. So I think like a prime example is my roommate Bella. She um college has been in her parents' mind, I would say, like, probably since the day she was born. Like they were like my daughter's life college, whether that be for softball or not for softball, like college, I think is the American dream. Like you have to attend college to be successful. Mostly for sport, I would I would say like sport over here is definitely way more serious than I think it is in Australia. So kids and parents and families are deciding really early that their children are going to college, like you said, around grade eight. Like as soon as they're reaching middle school to high school, they're trying to figure out where they want to go to college or what they want to go to college for. Um, I always knew I wanted to go to university, like I I wanted to um get a degree, I wanted to be in healthcare, I I wanted to be a nurse or a paramedic or a midwife. Like, so I always knew that I had to take that route, like the extra schooling, not not just go to high school and then be done. Um, it was probably once I made the Australian team and I went on a tour with a uh program called Inspire through the US, just looking at colleges and um playing softball over here in the US. We played in LA and Hawaii, that I really decided that I I thought college might be the route for me. So it was like the end of grade 10, start of grade 11, that I said to my parents, like, hey, like I think this is definitely something I wanna do. Like I I would love to go to the US and play softball. I think it would really help me achieve my dreams for softball, like a lot more than staying in Australia and playing softball with. Um so my parents were fully supportive. They were like, okay, but like you gotta understand this is gonna be a long, hard road. Um, and we had no idea where to start, like what to do. And then it was by complete fluke that we got like this email from uh Softball, Western Australia saying that study and play were coming to Softball WA to do like a talk about how to go to college, and I was like, oh my gosh, this is perfect. So I went to their little seminar and then yeah, decided like that's definitely the route for me. I wish I picked earlier though, like I wish I decided earlier and probably done the process with you guys through grade nine, 10, 11, 12, because everything was so rushed. You have to know what classes to take, what classes that don't really matter. Like I was behind in a social science in year 11, so I had to do schooling through a school in America, and and it wasn't hard, but it was just extra work that I had to do that I didn't think I would have to do. So um I yeah, I think if I could go back and do the whole thing again, even my parents would agree we would have started earlier. It definitely would have helped, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, okay. Because I I do talk to parents and families here, and especially when we have booths at places, we have like we go to 14 and under tournaments or 12 and under tournaments, and we have families across various different sports that go, oh hi, we're just here to get some information. Our son, our daughter is only 12. I'm like, oh, perfect. And they're kind of their eyes kind of wide, and they're like, oh, you know, like, yeah, the recruiting process is very different in the US than it is here. And a big thing that happens here in Australia is people start too late. And I don't go into the whole spiel about why it's too late, but do you want to tell people listening why the words like too late might come up in grade 12 or even for some people grade 11?
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah. So I mean, like I said before, they're they're starting so early. So these kids, I mean, I think it was only two years ago now that the rule came out where NCAA schools couldn't talk to anyone under the age of 16. Before that, like NCAA schools have been tracking these kids since they were like 12, 13 years old. So they already have a lot of interest. And then when we decide, like at grade 11 or 12 that we want to go over there, teens are full. They've got everyone that they need for that year, they've given out all their scholarships. They can't, they can't give you what you need because they have decided already that their their team is set and ready to go. So I think that's where I struggled a lot, is like schools would be interested. They're like, oh Michaela, like we love your work ethic, we love your ability, but like I don't have anything for you. Like, you could come out as a walk-on, and that for me was a big no because like obviously flying all that way, you you need help with scholarship money, like so that I think that's a big thing. Like, schools are they're already set with who they have on their team, and then another thing is like the amount of work you have to do, like obviously studying and playing, you guys help a lot with it, but but getting your visa, making sure your passport's ready, like signing up with the school, getting your F1, your I-20, like all that stuff takes a lot more time than I think people think it does. Like, it took me like three months to get a visa appointment, and and you're not even guaranteed to get a visa in that visa appointment. So stuff like that too is very stressful. Um but yeah, I think that's what I found the hardest was schools where they were like set with who they had, they didn't need anybody else, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01:And I think also I got a bit of a culture shock because I used to be a teacher. So me teaching, I was a primary school teacher, but had a lot of exposure to high school as well. And I actually am still to this day baffled at how intense high school is here in Australia for you guys, regardless of what high school you go to. It's just really intense. And I did not feel that intensity with my peers in the US. I went to a high school and took advanced classes, not all advanced, but I took a few advanced classes. So I had like a semi-rigorous course load, I would say, and I still did not feel probably nearly as much pressure as you guys do. So I think about that a lot.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and and like I totally agree with that because coming over to the US, like people, I would get a lot of mixed like uh talk from people. Like some people be like, oh, the schooling over there's so easy, like don't even worry about it, kind of thing. And then some people would be like, oh no, it's pretty tough. And I guess it all kind of depends on like what division you go, what um what program you're in, like what uh degree you're taking. Like I'm I'm in a health degree, I want I want to be a paramedic. So that's a little bit tougher than my roommate who's taking business kind of thing. So I think that all evens out as well. And then I um I definitely think I think high school is a different very a very different mindset in the US. Like high school is sport, I feel. Like it's sport, sport, sport, sport, sport. Like whereas Australia is school, school, school, school, school. Like you we don't I mean, we don't have high school sports, we don't have college sports like they do over here. Like, I mean we we do PE for one hour every day, but we don't play softball at school or like and that kind of stuff. So I think it's it's yeah, it's very different country to country, and I think that it makes it it's a big adjustment, I guess. I mean, I found I found school a lot easier over here, um, which has been really nice because then I have I being that I'm not from America, I haven't spent my whole life trying to balance softball in school. So coming over here and schooling being a little bit easier for me, I'm like, okay, that's a little bit thank goodness, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And that's interesting that you said high school is like sport, sport, sport, because just to put things into perspective, in the American high school system, your club sport is different to high school, it's at different times. And so high school sport takes priority. So I I was explaining this to some people, and I could talk about this for hours, but my high school schedule was Monday to Friday of sorry, Monday to Saturday, usually two, two and a half hours of training. So that's six days a week training, about two, two and a half hours. We had we had physios that would tape us before sessions. We had nutritionists, we had all that kind of stuff. And then we had games during the week as well. So we'd leave school sometimes at depending on where the game was, twice. I think it was about twice a week, we would leave school at one or 1230 to go play our games twice a week. So we were balancing schoolwork and sport very just naturally, I guess. And so again, when I moved here, I was like, oh, there's not as much training. It's very focused on academics. So I do know that you guys are very well equipped to go over to the US and study and do really well at school. But um, yeah, I could talk about that for ages, but I do want to move on to something, something different. So when you started the process with us, you acknowledge that you wished you had started sooner. Um, but when you did start, did you have any idea of what US college sport would be like? And with your experience with Australian softball and American softball, can you talk a bit about that and also talk a bit about potentially even people listening that are not softball players? If you were to compare general Australian sport to general US sport for college, could you talk a bit about that?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, absolutely. So this is probably one of my favorite topics. Um, talking about the differences. Um I like I can't speak for every single sport, obviously, um, but I can definitely speak for softball and like it in general. It's way more serious over here. Like I thought before I came to America that I took softball seriously. Like, I was like, oh yeah, like I'm in the state program, I'm in the national program, I want to go to the Olympics. Like, that's my goal. Like, I'm practicing five days a week. Um, and then I got here and I was like, Whoa, I don't take this sport seriously at all. Like, these girls have these girls have been playing since they were eight. Like, they have been playing every single weekend, traveling across the country, playing travel ball softball every weekend since they were eight. They practice every single day, twice a day. Like it is just it's so much more serious here. And and that was a big adjustment for me because I thought like being in all honesty, I thought being in the national team, I was like, oh, I'll come over here and I'll I'll fit right in. Like, I'm not, it's not gonna be much different. It can't be much different. And then my first practice, I was like, oh my gosh, what did I get myself into? Why did I choose this? Because these girls, and it's not that they were athletically better than me, like I was just as fit as they were. I could throw the ball just as hard as they could, but it was more that they just had so much more knowledge of the game. Like they were 10 steps ahead of me. And I was just like, I just got very like frustrated and flustered about it, I guess, because I was like, I've been doing this since I was like 12. Why am I not so serious about this? But to put it in perspective, like I would play one game a weekend throughout the summer or throughout the winter, that's probably like 20 to 25 games a year. And then if you add state, that's probably 30 games a year. These girls are playing 120 games a year, like, and that's that's a lot more games. Um, so I think overall, just because of high school and and knowing that kids want to go to college, they've always just taken sport a lot more seriously than what we do in Australia, and that's nothing against Australia at all. Like Australia is very academically driven, I believe. Like, I think Australia sees that sport's only get gonna get you so far, and then your degree will get you the rest of the way. That your degree is what's gonna earn you your money, unless you're very good and gonna make it to the majors or stuff like that. Like, and and especially at the JUCO route, like a lot of these girls aren't gonna play on after college, so it it it baffles me a little bit when they take software so seriously in school, not because I'm like, whoa, you're gonna you're gonna be finished with this soon, and then your degree takes over, and and if you don't end with a degree, what are you gonna do? Kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah, I like the comparisons that you made between Australia and America, and I think it's important that you acknowledge and that I try to acknowledge often that it's not a knock on Australia at all. Oh no, definitely not. Yeah, just different. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um I'm very I think after being here, I'm very grateful um that I was born in Australia and I did like we did dedicate so much to education because like I'll be realistic too. Like as a woman in sport, like I'm never gonna be able to live off of softball. Like, so the fact that Australia forced me to be really good at school and focus so much on school is definitely gonna help me later in life.
SPEAKER_01:So, yes. Maybe one day softball players will be able to live on their wage, hopefully.
SPEAKER_02:Like, I I am hoping, definitely hoping.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's cool to see the tide changing a bit with women's sport in the US, and that's a whole nother podcast that I can talk forever about. Yeah. Um, but what I do want to kind of dive into a bit as well is with people listening that are in the coach contact phase, whether they're working with a company like us or not, I think some people will receive interest from coaches and by human nature go, I am too good for this program. So I find this whole thing really interesting because in the US, you have the options of going to watch games at college. So I lived next to Cal and Stanford, which are obviously like amazing universities. Yes. So I got to watch a very various different sports with those two universities. So I grew up with all the merch, like cheering on, eating hot dogs, like loving going to all those games. And then we got recruited, like our club team. I say we, because my twin and I, we got recruited for um various different schools in the area. And instead of us going like, oh, we are too good, you can just quickly hop over, watch a game, and you can decide for yourself, do you think that you're able to compete at this level? And if you're not quite sure with that game, you can watch another game. Obviously, in Australia, you can't quite do that besides watching footage online. And this is for team sports. So it's a little bit different, as you would know, with swimming and track and things like that, because you have a time and that's your time, and you either qualify for a certain time or you're not quite where the coach needs you to be with a time. But then with sports like with your sport and with my sport of soccer as well, it's really hard to sometimes decide are you too good for this program, or is this too much of a like settling, I guess, school? So, what I wanted to kind of chat with you about is what would you say to kids that are in the coach contact phase receiving interest, going either consciously or subconsciously, oh, I'm too good for that school.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So I don't, um personally, I don't think I ever felt like that. And whether you do or not, like that's completely fine, obviously. Like, there's definitely schools out there now that I've faced schools, and I'm like, okay, like I I would probably stand out in that team, or this team I would not stand out in, like stuff like that. I think like my biggest piece of advice in the coach contact phase is never disregard a school. Like, just because you think they might not be good enough for you, doesn't mean you can't use those coaches and those students to to make yourself better at asking questions or getting used to that coach contact phase. Like there was a school I spoke to that I knew I was definitely not gonna go to, but it was helpful to talk to that coach and kind of see his reaction to my questions and use him to understand like where I kind of sit for that level of softball or schooling-wise. I I definitely think you never should disregard a coach or a school, especially because like you won't understand until you come over here, but a lot of coaches know a lot of people, so like and a lot of coaches talk too. Like, my coach will get a a call from like a girl in Indiana, say, and he'll call like all those schools around where she's from and be like, hey, like, do you know this girl? And they'll be like, Yeah, like kind of thing. And so I think that's really important too. Like, even if you are 10,000 miles away or 15,000 kilometers away, like coaches still talk too. So you know you never want to disrespect the program or anything. And I think if you do feel like that, don't don't ever be rude about it, just be like, hey, like, thank you so much for the offer. However, I'm not like quite interested in what you have to offer. And and coaches, at that if you're respectful about it, they're never gonna take it to heart. Like, they're just gonna go find somebody else. Um and and it's I think it works the same way with if you don't think you're good enough to like don't don't disrespect the coach in that way too. I think take everything as a learning opportunity. Um because like I think that helped me too. Like the very first school I spoke to, I was like, ooh, I didn't really click with the coach. And I was just like, this school's not for me. But I would never go to him and be like, you're not for me. Like I was very I kept the contact going and like I just used it to kind of use it to my advantage to help myself out. And like I've spoken to my coach about that a lot, and he's like, no, of course, do that. Like use everything you can to make your experience better and to help you find the perfect fit because you you want that, you want the perfect fit. And if you don't think it's the perfect fit for you, then definitely don't take it. Like, I don't think it's a bad thing to think you're too good for a school or too bad for a school. Like, you have to find a school that's perfect for you.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, totally agree. And I think some people listening might go, oh, the word use could have like a negative connotation. But Chris and I have talked about this a fair bit, and we're you it's like it's not using a coach with no benefit or anything like that, it's part of the recruiting process. And I think a lot of people in Australia might feel guilty about talking to a coach knowing that they're never gonna go there. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:But I also think it was Chris, it was Chris that spoke to me about that. He's like, it's okay if you don't like that. It was Chris and Alexia. If it's okay if you don't like that school, like just use them to your advantage. And and they know that too. I mean, these coaches have been doing it for so long, they're not silly. And at the same point, they're probably using you a little bit too. Yes, yes, there's a leverage thing for coaches. They could be like, they're talking to one girl, but they're talking to another girl, and they could be like, Well, this girl, she she is really interesting, just to get you to sign kind of thing. So it works both ways. Like it definitely works both ways, it's not just a one-way thing.
SPEAKER_01:And the other thing I think I would like to hear your thoughts on now that you've been there, with programs with subjective sports, like I was saying, like softball and soccer and things like that, and baseball, with those sports, if someone is sitting here going, I'm too good for this, which again, I'm I'm bringing that up again because I know that people believe this, whether like they say it out loud or not. I was curious to know, people that think that, where do they get that idea from? And the stuff that I I'm not saying it as like a judgmental thing, it's I'm very curious. So you're looking at a program, hypothetically, there's a student looking at a softball program. They've never been to the United States, they've never seen that school play unless they've looked up YouTube footage, maybe. Yes. Um, they've never met with a coach, they've never met with any of the current players, they've never been to that city. Um, they may have received accolades in Australia, but I'm curious to know with sometimes people will tell me and sometimes they won't, why they think they're too good for that program. And some people will say stuff like, oh, I've compared bios of current players on the team. And in Australia, I'm playing above that league if there's an Australian on that team, or if there's a New Zealander on that team, oh, they didn't make that team. So, but I did, like the Oceana team or whatever national team or something. So they're comparing directly to current people on the roster. And I actually had a conversation last week about this, someone comparing people on the roster. But then me saying you're actually comparing to an American who has probably already, by this point, the coach has seen them play live 10, 11, 12 times by grade 11. So you're comparing the bio of someone that a coach has been watching for two, three, four years already.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So just kind of keeping it real, I guess. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:No, definitely. So I think like for me on the decision making kind of thing, I I took it back to if my club team or my state team could beat that team, I'm not interested. Only because I wanted a team that was gonna push me to be better. Like my goals for softball are very high. Like, I want to make the national team, I want to be in the Aussie Spirit team, I want to go to the Olympics with Australia. So to if I could see that my club team, which is it's a good team, but it's not a nationally ranked team, could beat this college team. I knew I wasn't gonna get pushed enough. I knew there was not gonna be enough competition for me to work hard enough to be on that field. But like I said before, it doesn't mean I disregarded that coach or his program because they worked so hard to do what they do. But I definitely understand that there is people, and like you said, it's not a bad thing if you think you're better. Like, but I definitely understand that people are out there that think I'm better than this person, but you can never compare yourself to an American kid, like at all, I think. Like, because they like like we've said before, they've been playing every day, every weekend since they were eight years old. So they already are gonna have an advantage on you. They're gonna be they're gonna be more knowledgeable, and this is every school, I think. Like they're gonna be more knowledgeable of the game, they're gonna understand how the college system works because they've watched college coaches, they're gonna understand how college coaches coach because call this is their job. If they don't win, they get fired. So they're very serious. And in Australia, we've we've never experienced that. Like I know definitely in softball, like a c if a coach is hard, it's just because he's hard. And it's nowhere near as hard as they are over here. Like, this is their their life, I guess. So I don't think I don't think it's good to compare yourself to anybody that's on the team, like, especially even if it is other Australian kids, because like they've already been there now, too. You haven't been there yet. So you may have been better than them before, but that doesn't mean that you're better than them now. And they also have to remember, too, that if they didn't make that team, it's probably because they are in the United States. They haven't had the opportunity to be seen by these Australian coaches or not, especially if they're not reaching out to them. So I guess like you never know how good somebody is unless you really go there. And like stats and records and bias can be very deceiving too. Yeah, very deceiving. Like, especially it all it all comes down, I think, like conference and stuff. Like every conference is very different. So just because a school in Texas isn't doing very well doesn't mean they can't kick our butt because we're in a different conference, and that conference might not be as good. Or vice versa. Like, just because a school in my conference isn't doing so good doesn't mean they can't kick that number one school's butt in Tennessee or Texas or Florida, because everything's different too. Like it's so different state to state, it's so different country to country. So I think judging people or programs just based on stats and records and bios is very deceiving. Like you you never know. And it's hard being Australian because you don't get to just drive to a game and watch how that team goes. But I think definitely trying any chance you can to watch their games online, like a lot of schools live stream stuff. So to really understand where you think you might fit, and in the end, it's your decision, and don't let anybody take that away from you. If you think you're too good, then you're too good. And then if you go to a school that you think I'll fit in here and you're not good enough, then you just work hard, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That whole thing, I felt the whole time you're talking, I was like, say it louder for the people in the back.
SPEAKER_03:Like just yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because I think as well, which this is a great segue to the next part of what I wanted to talk to you about, which is people that may potentially only have a few offers, just generally. So it might be less than five, less than 10 offers. And they might think that they are too good for all of those offers. So you and I were talking off-camera before about the fact that you and I have both seen Australians not go to college because they believe that they are better than their offers. And this is kind of a very direct statement and very direct question. And I think that it's important to acknowledge because I think when people decide that they don't want to go because they're better, there might be some part somewhere of them that's like a bit embarrassed because they thought they would be ending up quote unquote higher than where they were. So I like to kind of talk about it as like. A opportunity to just go over and dominate. So if you think you are too good for that program, go over, dominate, crush it, get all American, get all the different awards that you want to get from your hard work, and then you can pivot and go somewhere else after once you've proved yourself in the United States. So I think, yeah, some people are like, oh, I'm just no, I'm not gonna go.
SPEAKER_02:I think as somebody who decided to take the college route, that's so heartbreaking. Like it's so disappointing to me to hear that somebody chose to not follow their dream just because they're worried about what other people will think of them. And and like I'm not gonna lie, at first, like, and I'm sure we'll talk about it later on in the podcast. I wanted to go division one. And I thought, you know what? If I don't go division one, that's so embarrassing. People are gonna think less of me. And then I sat back and I was like, I cannot let somebody else dictate the dream that I have. Like, whether it be my parents, because my parents were very set on Division I, whether it be myself, whether it be my brothers, my family, my friends, like it is it is my dream, it is my life, and whether you believe in whatever you believe in, you get one chance at it. And I think letting somebody else tell you or make you feel embarrassed for not like for not going the route that they think you should go is very heartbreaking because whether these like these last two years have been tough at times and I've wanted to go home, but like every college kid does. If I hadn't have chosen to come to college, I would have missed out on so much. I would have missed out on so many learning opportunities, opportunities to grow, so many amazing experiences, amazing friends, like the ability to play the sport I love. So I think like if I I I definitely agree with you, if you think you're too good for a school, go to the school, dominate at the school, and then transfer to a great school because as as hard as study and play work or any agency work, the chances of you getting recruited to a really good school is so much easier if you live in America than if you live in Australia. And that's no that's no like judgment to any agency that's trying to help you. It's just facts. Like they get to watch you every day here, they get to know you, they get to talk to your other coaches, like you you don't get that ability because you're so far away when you're in Australia. So go to this school and do really well, or or love it and stay. Like you never know, I guess. Yeah. Like my goal was to come to Lakeland, play one year really well, and transfer on. And I played well, but I loved it here. And I was like, no, why would I leave if I if I love it here? I mean, some days it's hard, yeah, and it's excruciating, but I mean, the good times outweigh the bad 100%. And I think like, don't ever give up your dream because you're embarrassed to tell somebody that you went JUCO or NAIA or Division Low Division I. Like, any achievement as an Australian coming over here and working your butt off and being away from your parents is so much harder than a kid that drives 40 minutes away from home and goes to a division one school, I think.
SPEAKER_01:I love that whole thing. And I have I have nothing to add, but what I will say to the listeners is I have not trained Michaela to say any of this. This is genuinely how Michaela feels, and I'm I'm sure you guys listening and watching will be able to tell that you this is how you truly feel. And I think if we spoke to hundreds of kids that we've helped, they would say the same thing. And I think the thing for listeners to remember is if you're letting one person or group of people dictate how you feel about your decision, then they're kind of paralyzing you into potentially following your dreams. And maybe, yeah, maybe your dream is not one of the divisions that you were offered, but it's a step to the next place. Or like Michaela said, you're just over the moon when you get there and you are super happy. So yeah, love everything that you just said about that, um, which is another great segue into what you originally thought in high school doing the recruiting process. This was before I started with the company, so I I wasn't helping you then, but you said that you were very focused on Division One and your parents were as well. So can you talk a bit about that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, you turn on ESPN and who do you see? Like you see Florida Gates, Texas, Stanford, Cal State, Fullerton, like all the big teams, all the big Division I teams. So when you think of college, you think of Division I, you think big team division one schools, you don't hear about or see the Division II teams or the Division III teams or the NAIA teams or the JUCO teams, like you don't get to see that stuff. So I think there's a big stigma of if I'm going to college, I am going to Division I because anything else is embarrassing because nobody will know where I am. And I had that. I was like, oh, if I want to go play softball, I am going to a Division I school. And I was at the point, and my parents were at that point where we were like, we will risk money, we will risk anything so that my daughter can go Division I and it was it was heartbreaking when I was like, I'm not getting any Division I interest. Like I got a little bit here and there, but it was nothing like I thought. Like I thought, oh, these schools are gonna see that I'm in the Australian team, I'll be fine. The Australian team means nothing to people over here. They're like, we don't care. Like if you're in the Australian team, like, oh, that's another achievement for you, but we're American. Like we don't, we don't care about your Australian kind of thing. Yeah, like like it it it it's exciting um for you and for them because they know, like, oh, okay, well, she's the best in the country of at that time, but it doesn't mean much to them. So I think like when I thought of college, I was like, I'm division one, I'm division one, I'm division one, I'm division one. And then Lexia and Ellen, who was here at the time, and um Chris all sat me down and they're like, look, Mac, like I don't think you're really getting the interest that you're looking for. Um how about we look into other divisions, NAIA and JUCO? And at first I was like, no, like if I'm not doing this division one, then I'm not doing this at all. And it was that same thing. I was worried that what people would think about me or letting down my parents or and stuff like that. And and then I really sat down and I was like, well, I looked into it a lot. I did my a lot of my own research with my family and stuff, and a lot of athletes get picked up from JUKOs to go division one and go division one at good schools on good money, and I was not getting those offers, so I thought to myself, well, what's better than what's better? I can go division one on not a lot of money, sit my first two years, not see the field, or I could go JUCO on money and play my first two years, and then potentially get a really good scholarship to a really good school and a division one school, and that's my dream. Like in the end, when somebody asks me where'd you go to college, I can be like, I went division one, or or I went division two and I went high-end division two, or I went NAIA. Like, in the end, who cares what people think? Because it's it's your dream and it's your life, it's not theirs. If if they want to judge you, then you just tell them, well, why didn't you go division one? kind of thing. Like, why didn't you choose to go to college? So I think like people really need to understand that going JUCO or going NAIA or going Division II and III is not a bad thing. If the school fits you, then it doesn't matter what other people think at all.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And I am so grateful for study and play telling me to go JUCO, or not telling me to go JUCO, but suggesting the idea of going to JUCO because I have met the two most amazing girls, like my two best friends are incredible, and I've had the most amazing experiences. I played my fresh junior my freshman sophomore year, um, which like a lot of other girls don't when they come from Australia and they go to big and CAA schools. Um and and yeah, potentially I'm hoping to go on Division I. Whether I do or not, I won't know for another couple months. But I mean, I have more of a chance now than I did when I played in Australia, so I think that's really, really full of wisdom.
SPEAKER_01:That whole entire thing, full of wisdom. Any sport for any person listening, that is super, super important to hear. Parents, kids, 12-year-olds, 18-year-olds, it doesn't matter. Really, really important for everyone to kind of let that sink in. And I think there is similar to in the United States, you have people in the United States going through the recruiting process that have similar thoughts of like, oh, I just really, really want to go division one because otherwise I'm a bit embarrassed.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, it doesn't really matter what people think and so so right. So, what advice would you have for softballers listening of things that you wish that you had done a bit differently in the recruiting process? Maybe some tips for videos, maybe some things that if this was a year nine softballer listening or a year 10 or 11, if they still have a while to film and still have a while to get better, what kind of stuff would you tell them to work on before heading over?
SPEAKER_02:Take it more seriously. I think like we think we take it seriously, and then we come over here or I come over here, and I'm like, oh, maybe I didn't take it seriously. Like, I and I think like even, and this is for all at all athletes too, like get in the gym, do your cardio, like do your lifting, because like I said, these kids have been doing it for so long, so we're already behind because we don't take it anywhere near as serious as they do. Some sports might, like some sports in Australia they take very seriously, like tennis, say like a lot of tennis players come over from Australia and they excel in the United States because it's a sport that we are pretty good at swimming, like that kind of stuff. But your sports that are predominantly US based, like softball and baseball and like all those kind of things, like we have to take it more seriously. I think you you have to be a lot harder on yourself than you think you are. And then with like video footage, like I look back at my video footage now and I'm like, how did I ever get recruited? Like, what did Coach Nelson see in me to think, yeah, I want that girl? Because I look at it and I'm like, whoa, that's embarrassing. Um, I think we have to we have to be a lot more aggressive too, especially in videos, like especially for softball. Like, I look back at my swing and it was kind of pathetic, and I'm like, oh, I wish I could have swung a little bit harder or went for that ball a little bit harder, kind of stuff like that. I think is the biggest thing. Um, and then just like taking every opportunity to get better. There's not a lot in Australia, we don't get to play a lot of games. So any chance you do get to play a game, take it way more seriously and and be better and video everything. Like, I wish I'd videoed my games because I think intensity in games is a little bit higher than in practice, too. Um, because like we want to win in practice, you're not competing against anybody. So I think like a lot of foot practice uh game footage is like really important too. I didn't really have a lot, mine was more practice footage, and I think it would have helped if I had had a lot more game footage.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, okay. I like the comments you made about intensity in general. I think there's a wide range of videos that we receive from kids who have various levels of intensity. And I also did want to ask your thoughts on if someone has been asked by a coach to provide more footage but doesn't, what are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_02:Uh they will soon not be interested in you. I mean, they're they're expecting you to give what they're giving. If they are taking the time out of their day to look at your footage and talk to you, then they're expecting you to take the time out of your day to get them the footage that they want. Otherwise, they're not gonna be interested in you anymore. If you take too long, if you are disrespectful, they're not they're not gonna waste their time because they have a hundred other options to choose from. Like, I think if you are from Australia and you were talking to a coach, you are very fortunate because there is a lot of other kids that they can spend a lot less money on. They don't have to waste an international not waste an international scholarship, but they don't have to use an international scholarship and worry about everything that comes with an international athlete because there's a lot more than you may think. Um so they're just gonna take their next option. Like, if if you are gonna waste their time, they're not gonna waste their time. They're not gonna keep talking to you. So if a coach asks you to do something, do it straight away, or as soon as you have time. Like, obviously, I know like school, work, practice, and stuff, but if you but you need to communicate that too. Like, hi coach, I'm really busy right now. I have an if a final or an exam coming up, and I have practice. Can I get it to you within the next week? They're usually gonna be like, Yeah, absolutely, no worries. Thank you for communicating with me. But if you're waiting two weeks and then you respond, they're gonna be like, no, sorry, we already feel that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Like, don't waste the time.
SPEAKER_01:I think what happens is because you guys, when I say you guys, Australian high school students, are so busy with school, sometimes this pathway is like second or third or fourth or fifth priority, which is understandable. Like I get that for sure. And I think that's a culture shock for me, but I've learned about that as now moving to Australia. But with other kids in America, they're going out of their way to provide that footage or provide those stats or provide footage of them doing things that a coach has maybe not even asked for, but they're like, oh, this shows this. So I'm gonna go do this. And the coach hasn't asked for this, but I'm gonna go and film this to show that I've decided to take one less step before going over the hurdle. And I'm gonna tell the coach that, hey, coach, here's 10 seconds of me running um a 60-meter race or 80-meter race, 100-meter race, and I'm showing you here, here, and here. If you'll notice at three seconds I've done this, 10 seconds I've done this.
SPEAKER_02:And yeah, yeah, I just I think that they're never gonna find that they're not complacent. No, yeah, like the coaches are never gonna be like, oh my gosh, McHaylor is emailing me again. Like a coach is gonna take a coach is gonna take a student athlete that is dedicated because they want to win. Their goal is national championship. Whether I don't I don't care if you're um a nationally ranked program or not, like your goal is to win. A coach would not be doing it if he didn't want to win or she didn't want to win. Yep. So, like, if you're gonna prove to them that you're gonna work your butt off to achieve a national championship, or achieve a title, or or break a record, they're gonna be a hundred percent interested in you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I like I really like the way that you said that for sure. And I think a lot of people we work with, families and other people that we speak to at fairs and booths and things like that, are like, oh, I feel like I'm communicating too much and bothering the coach too much. And I smile because I'm like, no, that's definitely not the case because coaches get lots of emails and WhatsApps and stuff all the time. And I was even having a conversation with one of the Cal coaches, and he was saying that at Cal Berkeley they have a mail room and they get mail from kids that are in grade seven sending Christmas cards because they can't speak to them yet. Like neither neither party can speak to each other, but you best believe there is a grade seven girl who is like, I want to come play for you. Here's here's my family Christmas card. It's one-sided, like it's her sending it to the coach, and that's fine. It's not other way around. But they are invested, they're keen, they're probably coming to every game at Cal if they live in the area. Like, and I think that difference some people don't understand here. Um, but I also think the difference is that when that girl goes from grade seven to grade 11, she's on that coach's radar that whole time. And that coach might be going and watching them, talking to her club coach, talking to her high school coach, keeping track of everything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And like I think, like being over here now, and I don't know if this was just me, but Twitter was not a big thing, I didn't think. Like in Australia, I was like, I never used Twitter. I was like, what is Twitter? Like, I I really don't even understand what it was back in high school. Like, I had no interest in having it, none of my friends had it. I I didn't know anybody that had it. And then I got over here, and there's these 10-year-olds with Twitter posting these videos of them playing their sport, and college coaches are like like call the college coaches can't like it and stuff like that, but like you know that they're looking at it, like you can see who views it, and and Twitter is such a big thing over here. Like, and I got my own Twitter account because I'm like, if it's gonna help me get recruited, I'm gonna get one. Um, so like I think that's another thing too. Like, take any opportunity, any opportunity, whether that be calling the school or emailing the coach or sending your Christmas card or getting Twitter, like they're never gonna get annoyed. They deal with it their whole lives, and if you spark interest, then they're gonna follow you.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, agreed. Are there things that you would recommend kids to post that are looking at doing this process? Maybe they have Instagram or Twitter, or you've just inspired them to get Twitter.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Obviously, they can chat with us as well at study and play about things that we recommend, but from your perspective, are there things that you would recommend for kids with any sport to post on social media?
SPEAKER_02:So there's like there's things I wish I did. Like I wish I had like a softball dedicated Instagram page. Or I and I know it sounds cringy, like it it really does. Like, I I used to look at kids like baseballers that are trying to get recruitment, like, oh my gosh, what are these kids doing? Like, a coach is never gonna look at that. They look at it. You don't realize, like, when a coach is recruiting you, they go through everything. Like, they they want to know everything about you, good and bad. Like, and so I think like having those pages, like Twitter, especially, because college coaches use Twitter. Like, I any coach that I'm interested in, any school that I'm interested in, I will Google them and I'll find their school, and then I'll find their coach's Twitter page. And I think when posting things, don't just make it about you too. Like, if your team achieves something, post that too, because coaches want to know that you're a team player, coaches want to know that you're you're willing to sacrifice anything for your team because and even if you're an individual sport, I mean obviously that's different. Like, but if you're if you're a team sport, like they want to see you as an all-rounder. As an individual, post your stats, post your game highlights, but also post your team stuff. And then like you can post, you can I love to repost schools that I'm interested in. So if like if like a school that I'm interested in, um, I don't know, they win a three-game series, I'm like, oh my gosh, congratulations, this team on doing this. Because then the coach is like, oh, okay, she like she likes us, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Any any little thing, it will help you. And whether that be Instagram or Twitter or whatever, I definitely recommend Twitter. I really wish I had started that earlier. Like my roommate Bella, she is her mom has been running her Twitter since she was like, I don't even know how young. And the amount of college coaches that follow her, like big schools too, and whether they're interested in her or not, like that's pretty cool. So yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's I think that's very insightful for people here. I'm imagining some of the audience listening to this going, Wow, that sounds like a lot of work. So it is.
SPEAKER_02:But it's worth it.
SPEAKER_01:It's worth it, and things that are really great in life require hard work and effort and extra, yeah, just extra stuff that you gotta do on a weekly basis in general. So I think that something that I've noticed is that we work with a wide range of families and kids, and some kids are like willing to do whatever it takes to get recruited. Others are quite chill, which is totally fine. And then what can sometimes happen is they're chill throughout the recruiting process, they're not really too proactive with anything, or not really adding extra footage, or potentially blaming other coaches in Australia saying, Oh, they were not available to get my footage, or they won't they were not free to do this for me. So then sometimes the kids that are a bit relaxed get to the end and go, oh, I don't have very many offers. But then my thought process is yes, because you didn't put in the effort. Frankly, you didn't put in the effort here. Maybe you'll get over there and absolutely crush it and then transfer like you were hoping to do. Or you realize, oh, this is actually so much more work than I thought, and then you just give up.
SPEAKER_02:So and it definitely is a lot of work. Like I probably wasn't the most proactive in my initial phases of recruiting. Like, I was kind of just like, it'll happen. Like if it happens, it happens, kind of thing. And that's probably another thing. Like, I'm I was disappointed now looking back, like I'm disappointed in myself because if I had worked a lot harder, then things may or may not have been different. I'll never know, I guess. But it it makes me realize now like how much more I want to do to get myself recruited. And and that doesn't just mean like putting yourself out there, that also means working out more and practicing harder and practicing on your own, like stuff like that. So, like I definitely think that's a big thing. If you're not gonna work hard, then the coach isn't gonna work hard for you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, agreed.
SPEAKER_02:Like, like like we spoke about before, like this is their job, this is their life. They want people that are gonna win because if they're not a winning program, then the chances are that coach is not gonna be there for very long. And the higher the division, the more likely that is. Like, if if a coach is losing, like that school is not gonna want them there anymore. So they're not gonna recruit somebody that they know is not gonna work hard.
SPEAKER_01:And what I also want to add with that is that anyone that works with a recruiting agency, we are working really hard for you as a student as well. But again, there's only so much we can do because I can't go out and pretend to be you in film stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And I can't go work out and gain three kilos of leg muscle. Like I can't do that for someone. If I could, I would. I love I love this whole thing and I love how the recruiting process works, but I know it can also be quite confronting for people or quite brutal sometimes with the feedback that is given to study and play to then pass along to a student, athlete, or opposite, where a coach straight up is just like, no. Um, so I think to kind of finish off the podcast, what would you say to someone who's currently right now in the recruiting process and is maybe getting ghosted or is not having a lot of interest from coaches or studying plays, following up a lot, and they're still like the coaches are just either have said no or um have said check back in with me and then they've said no again. What are your pieces of advice for anyone listening who's in the coach contact phase and is feeling a little bit discouraged?
SPEAKER_02:I think like don't give up. Uh and there was a point in time where I was getting no interest, and I and I was like, I was so disheartened by it. I was like, oh my gosh, nobody wants me. What if like, what if this is my dream and I don't get to achieve it because nobody's interested? There will be somebody. Like eventually, and I know that sounds it sounds hard, but you're you have to wait it out and you have to see, and and if you have to take an offer that maybe wasn't really your hopes and dreams, then take that offer, go there, work hard, and get the offer that you want. Like, there's there's so many, you don't have to stay at a school. Like, there's the transform portal now, like it's so easy to get to where you want to be or or achieve your dreams. You just have to be patient, I think. And and patience is very hard when it comes to something so important as college and so like exciting as college, but it it's life, unfortunately. And and if a school's not giving you interest that you thought you were gonna get interest from, like don't don't get upset about it. It like it happens, I guess. And yeah, I'm like, like I said, I went through it and it was it was very hard. Like my parents were so hard on me, they were like, Why are you getting interest? You're not working hard enough. And I'm like, but I don't know what else to do. Like it's not on me anymore. Yeah, there's only so much I can do before it's up to the coach to be interested in me. And and I think no matter what, somebody's always gonna be interested. I think like whether it is what you want or it isn't, see how it goes and then work hard. And if you want it bad enough, you're gonna work hard enough to get to where you want to be.
SPEAKER_01:Great, great wisdom. It's been an absolute pleasure to chat with you as always. And I can't wait for people to hear about what you have to say, and I really hope it's insightful for everyone. And it's yeah, been an absolute joy. And so many times throughout this, I've been like, yes, yes, love it. Uh so yeah, very, very excited for everyone to listen. And thank you so much, Michaela.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you so much for having me. I loved it.
SPEAKER_01:Hello everyone. We are back in the fuddle, is excited to welcome back another one of our guests, Michaela Denny, who you first heard from just over two years ago as she was getting ready to embark on her next chapter at her NCAA school that she was going to be transferring to. At the time of recording, Michaela was a junior college athlete who was getting ready to transfer, but she didn't know where she was going to be going. The audience has been waiting on the edge of their seats to see where she went, how she enjoyed it, and what she's up to now. So by popular demand, here we are sitting with Michaela Jenny. Welcome to the show again.
SPEAKER_02:Hi everyone. Thank you so much for having me, Claire. I am so glad to be back.
SPEAKER_01:You're the pro. This is gonna be really fun for everyone to listen to. So instead of hearing my monotone, can you please tell everyone what you've been up to, where you ended up going, and how long it's been since you've been on the podcast?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so um after a two-year wait, I uh I did go to an NCAA Division I school in Louisville, Kentucky called Bellerman University. It's a uh private Catholic institution. Um in the heart of Louisville, uh, not Louisville. I got constantly told how many times to say it correctly. Um yeah, it was an incredible experience, totally different to JUCO, but very grateful, my grateful for my time there and my the experience I have.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. And when you were making a decision about where you wanted to go, what you wanted to do, what your next right fit would be, what kind of stuff were you considering in that process?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so um before making my final decision, I was talking to a couple schools. And um at the end, the kind of thing that really just sealed the decision for me was just the coach, like the way the coach would interact with me, communicate with me, um how comfortable I felt with talking to them. There was another coach I was speaking to. Um I wasn't feeling super confident and comfortable with them, whereas um coach D Or Coach Dela Harbour at Bellament, I felt extremely comfortable with her and really like I could really see myself at the school. And I felt just like super excited every time she would call or like I would get new news about like the school. So that was definitely like a big thing for me. Location was also pretty good. Like I was still pretty close to my old school. So I could still like see all my old friends because they were like still within the Midwest. Um, the idea of going to Louisville, Kentucky uh sounded really cool. It was really cool um being in a city, not so much in a small town anymore, which which was another big ticking point. And um Bellerman had they were were fresh to Division I, so they only came, became a Division I school in 2020. So we're still in like the four-year grace period, and there was just a lot of development, which I thought was really exciting. Like there was a lot, there was a big like path for us. We had a lot of a lot we could do with the new team. So that was really exciting as well.
SPEAKER_01:Amazing. What did you study when you were there?
SPEAKER_02:So I got my um bachelor of arts in psychology and then a minor in sports administration.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. What do you think that you're gonna be doing now that school is done? And what kind of professional pathway do you think you'll be undertaking?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I have some pretty big goals and dreams still. So um as of right now, I'm just studying in an admin role um in a company in Perth. And then I hope to go back to school next year and get my master's degree in clinical psychology. And then I want to pursue my PhD because I would love to uh teach one day just at a university, either here or back in the United States. And then um I would love to own my own practice one day to help um athletes, just like with the mental side of the game. I really want to focus on like loss of identity after um like having like stopping your sport or like because you can't play anymore or you have an injury, just like stuff like that. That's what I really want to focus on because I got injured my junior year and I just felt like physically I had so much support, but mentally I didn't have as much support as I felt I should have had or like could have had. So that's kind of what I want to focus on.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. I think that that is something that is definitely growing in the space for college athletes and athletes around the world, professional and semi-pro. And I know that there's lots of organizations out there that talk about sports psychology and they talk about mental performance and stuff like that. But I actually don't see as many talking about loss of identity. I think that's more of a thing that is needs to grow, and that's really exciting that you're gonna be looking into that space. And I've experienced loss of identity as well, getting injured where I can't play my sport ever again, even as an adult. So um that's yeah, I really like that you're you're going into that field. And even people who are not injured and go to college, have a great time, come back, or stay in America and they're no longer an athlete. I think even that loss of identity, they're no longer a collegiate athlete, they're not sure what's gonna happen next, they don't know how their body's gonna hold up, or even if their body is completely fine, they're just no longer a collegiate athlete and they're not sure what life looks like for them in the future. So I think that's that's really cool that you're getting into that space. And I like that you said you still have big dreams. I feel like once a big dreamer, always a big dreamer in every aspect of your life. And I feel like the listeners from the last episode can definitely tell that you give everything 100%. And I I'm not surprised at all that you want to do all these amazing things. So really excited to thank you. That'd be so good. And I I also wanted to talk with you more as well about anyone listening who is thinking, okay, I'm a softball player, or maybe they're not a softball player, and they're listening to this episode as well. And you want to provide some wisdom as to how to pick your next program or advice for when you're at your next school, what you should really be focusing on, or how to take the most what's the right word? Like how to really grab the experience by both hands and really go for it. Like, what tips do you have for people?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I transitioning from one school to another is definitely hard. I don't think it's easy by any means. Um, you build connections and you create experiences and memories at your first school that you don't want to leave. Leaving my first school was extremely difficult. I met incredible people, I had incredible experiences. So I knew that leaving Lakeland was gonna be very hard for me. So that's why when I was going through the recruiting process again, because it's exactly like the process of the first time, I really wanted to keep an open mind and realize that I was probably never gonna get another Lakeland. Like my experience that I had at Lakeland, I wasn't gonna have at this other school because you're not supposed to. You're supposed to create new memories and meet new people and have new experiences. So I really tried to focus on like being very open-minded about that. So, like, but then again, I still knew there was parts of it that I wanted to be the same. I still wanted to feel confident and comfortable with who I was like trusting to have me, kind of thing. I mean, moving from the other side of the world is intense. So you still want to feel that sense of security and safety. So that was a big factor for me. Um I personally like I didn't want to go any more north because I knew it was gonna be really cold. Illinois was really cold. So um being a little bit more southern in Kentucky was a big tick for me because I knew it was gonna be a little bit more warm, which was nice. Um, and then it was down to like the softball program. So I went to a program that was pretty, it was fairly new to Division One, like I had said before. And that just for me, instead of me looking at that and thinking, oh my gosh, they're probably not gonna be that good or they're gonna struggle, I looked at it as an opportunity to come into the team and like help develop the team. So, like, um just focusing on like what I could bring, what knowledge and experience I could bring from a two-year school to like help this team get better. And then just like focusing on positive, like having a positive attitude. Like, I know my first year was really hard for me. I was very negative because I was missing my friends, I was missing my last school, I'd gotten injured. Um, so I didn't play all year. So it was like really heartbreaking for me. But then the next year I kind of like took a step back and I worked on myself mentally a lot. And I said, like, one, that's no way to be a teammate. And two, I'm not gonna benefit myself and get better as a person and a player if I choose to be negative. So then, like my senior year, I just focused on like being positive all the time, no matter like what was to happen. And then, because that just made my experience so much better. My senior year was so much better than my junior year because I chose to change my mentality. So I think just focusing on like your mentality and and you will only get out of something what you put into it. So if you put in all this work, then you're gonna get out what you put in. So yeah, that those are my tips.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's good karma. You you only are gonna get what you put in, and I think everyone listening can definitely resonate with that. And I think the most important thing that I want people listening to this to take away from this conversation is the first episode when we recorded. Okay, like we got so much positive feedback from that episode, and people were really impressed with your grace, your maturity, your resilience, your positive mindset, like very reflective. And I think people listening to this follow-up episode can also tell that same thing. And I think you're gonna be a great psychologist and great professor Lando. I'm so excited for you.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:And I feel like our podcast episodes, we always get kind of deep and we always talk about the reflective, overarching themes of just like recruiting and college life and sport. So, on that note, if you were to think about Michaela being 18, leaving Perth to fly over to America for the first time to the Michaela that has landed back in Perth all these years later, how do you think that you've grown as a person from your college experience?
SPEAKER_02:I have definitely matured. I mean, I was pretty mature before I left. Like um, I knew what I wanted in life, and I knew that hard work and determination was gonna get me those things. But since then, since being in college, like I've just, I mean, I lived on my own for four years. That matures you so fast. You I got home to a house full of people, and I was like, oh my gosh, I have to live with people again. This is crazy. But it's like taught me how to, I mean, simple things like keeping my own space clean, doing my own launch, like obviously those are basic things, but you learn how to cook for yourself, just be an adult. Um, but also mentally, like you just learn how to like kind of let things go quicker and like get past negativity or like people that aren't so nice. I kind of learnt really fast how to get past that. Because if I let it kind of eat me alive, then I I wasn't gonna succeed. I didn't have anyone to lean on because I was over there by myself. Um, and then just like you learn how to make friends fast. Like I remember when I first was going over there, I was like, oh my gosh, mom, what if I don't make friends? And she was like, Michaela, you are a nice person, like you're gonna make friends, it's okay. And so you learn like how to like leave people and how to like keep the right ones, if that makes sense, kind of thing. Like you just learn who you are yourself, you discover what type of person you are and who you want to be. And yeah, it's really fun, it's a great experience. It's scary, but it was really fun.
SPEAKER_01:I feel like the best things in life can be very scary at the beginning.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I was petrified. It I was leaving my mom and my two brothers, and and that was really scary to me. So, but now I'm back and I look back on these four years and I think, oh my gosh, where did that time go? And I remember getting on the plane and like being so upset because I thought the four years went so fast, and I looked at my mom with a big grin on her face, and she was like, That was the longest four years of my life. I was like, not of mine. I look, I can't, I cannot believe that it is over.
SPEAKER_01:Do you think it's over and I'm really sad, or do you think it's over? I'm really grateful. Like, what's your thought process right now, knowing that it's all done?
SPEAKER_02:Um, definitely both. Like, it's over, and I'm so grateful for my experience. I'm so glad that I will get to grow up and tell people like, heck yeah, I did that. Like, I went to a whole nother country for four years and I lived out my dream and I didn't let anyone stop me. But then there's some days where I'm like, I know when August hits, and that's usually when I'll be flying back over there, that I'm gonna be like, dang, this is sad. This is sad that I'm not gonna be back over there playing the sport I love with the people I love. Like, I still get to do that here, which I'm incredibly incredibly grateful for as well. But I know when August comes and goes, I'm gonna be like, oof, I know I should be back over there by now, but I'm not. So yeah, but I'm definitely grateful for my experience. Like it fulfills my heart every day. So I was like, that was so cool. I met the most incredible people and had the most incredible experiences.
SPEAKER_01:And that I think it's a winning the poo quote about how lucky am I to have something that is so hard to say goodbye to.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I said that before I left. Uh I was talking with Cameron, my fiance from America. So lucky me, I get to go back. But um, and I said that to him. I said, Yeah, how lucky are we that we have something so hard to say goodbye to? So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I love that. For anyone listening who wants to chat to Michaela about her experience, we have our Western Australia Family Catchup that's coming up at the time of recording. So I'm looking forward to athletes being able to chat to Michaela live in person. Sounds like we're at a concert, but yeah, live at the venue for the family catch-ups. So you can definitely ask her any questions when you're there in WA and Perth. Um, any last pieces of advice for parents listening, for athletes listening, softball players listening, anyone listening who has listened to your story before and is hearing what you've been up to and what you're about to get up to in the rest of your life as well. Like any tips or parting wisdom for the audience?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I think I said this in my last one too. So it's only it's only fair that I say it again. But for parents, I think let them experience it. It's gonna be hard. You're gonna get phone calls that are like, book me the next flight out, but they will become completely different people. Like I talk to my mom about it all the time. And she she doesn't say this to my face because she would never want me to hear this, but she tells people all the time how proud she is of me and how incredible I did. So I think just let them live, let them experience it, let them have fun. You will get them back in four years. Um, and then for athletes, don't let anyone tell you you can't do it because only you can tell you you can't do it. And I think you will be extremely disappointed in yourself if you let others decide your future for you. So just work hard, put your head down, and it'll be over before you know it. And then you'll be wishing that it's not done.
SPEAKER_01:So, yeah. What a great way to end our episode. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing your wisdom not once but twice with us on the podcast. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. Everyone at study and play is so proud of you, and thank you again so much, Michaela, for being here. Thank you.