Ep #74: Men's NCAA Volleyball Recruiting Masterclass with Coach David Heller from Georgetown and University of Mount Olive

On today's episode, we’re joined by Coach David Heller, a 12 year NCAA Division 1/2 men’s and women’s volleyball coach at Georgetown and University of Mount Olive to give Australian and other international athletes the straight story on what recruiting looks like from the coach’s side. What actually wins you a roster spot, why the “full ride” myth causes so much stress for families & more.

Claire and Coach David dig into the real structure of men’s volleyball in the US: how NCAA divisions work, where JUCO and NAIA can be a smart pathway, and why Title IX and limited scholarship caps shape everything from roster decisions to how much money is available. David shares practical ways to think about costs, stacking academic and athletic aid where it’s allowed, and how to talk about budget without tying your self-worth to a dollar figure.

Then we get highly specific on video footage. David breaks down what each position must show first in a highlight video, what coaches consider fluff, the camera angle that best shows movement and decision-making, and why full-match film is the difference between hype and reality. 

Together, Coach David and Claire cover

• cultural differences internationals face when arriving in the US system
• why technical skill and high-level match experience can look different by country
• how men’s volleyball scholarships work and why funding limits matter
• men's volleyball opportunities in NCAA Division 1/2, Division III, NAIA and JUCO 
• why you don't see as much media about NCAA men's volleyball compared with NCAA women's volleyball
• why there is no relegation or promotion between divisions
• when parents should join recruiting calls and how money questions change the process
• why your worth is not tied to the dollar value of your scholarship
• what men's volleyball coaches want in highlight videos by position plus best filming angles
• why full match footage matters and how transfers can backfire without the right fit
• pro volleyball realities post college and the daily goal setting that supports big dreams
• the personal checklist method for making a confident university decision

If you’re serious about men's US College volleyball recruiting, building a scholarship plan, and creating a standout highlight reel, this chat is the blueprint. 

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Transcript

Welcome And David’s NCAA Background

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Hello and welcome to another episode of In the Huddle. I'm your host, Claire, joined today by our special guest, former U.S. Men and Women's Volleyball Coach and NCAA, David Heller. Welcome to the podcast, David.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Thank you, Claire, so much for having me and uh really excited to get to share some of my knowledge about the NCAA and how players from all over the world can kind of pursue their dream of playing in the United States.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Amazing. So by way of introduction, can you please tell us a bit about your background with coaching in the NCAA?

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Yeah. So I'm David Heller. I currently serve as an international officer for Durham University, located in the UK, but I spent 12 years coaching in the NCAA for both Division I men's and Division I women's volleyball. I worked at the University of Mount Olive in North Carolina for six years as the head men's coach and had a really amazing time and actually got to coach several athletes from uh countries all over the world, including Australia. I've had athletes from Brisbane, Perth, Melbourne, and Sydney. So kind of, you know, all over the country, which was really, really amazing to help them find their pathway to the United States. And then I spent some time coaching with our collegiate national team at World University Games in South Korea and in Taiwan. And so got to have some really amazing experiences with USA volleyball through that. And finally I ended my coaching career at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C., which is a Division I university in the Big East conference. So I've had uh some really, really great experiences within coaching.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Amazing.

Coaching Internationals Versus Americans

SPEAKER_02 1:46

I think the first thing that I want to talk about is the difference that you've noticed between recruiting and coaching local kids in the US versus kids from around the world. So from like a perception of skill level, perception of adjusting to the US system, perception of coachability, all of that kind of stuff. What is your view on like recruiting internationals, coaching internationals, particularly because with a huge amount of our audience being from Australia, they might want to hear some Aussie differences as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yeah. I think one of the big things that that any coach that recruits international students has to recognize is there is going to be a cultural difference in the way that they've been coached before they arrive to the United States. And in my experience, a lot of international players have a much higher technical skill level than American student athletes do when they're arriving on campus. The flip side is that the level of competition is usually higher in the United States because there might be just more people playing the sports. They get to play at a higher level because there are more people playing the sport. So that's one of the bigger differences I kind of noticed right away is that technique wise and game strategy-wise, a lot of my international athletes came in at a really, really high level that our American athletes had to catch up to. But when it came to game experience at a high level, our Americans had more experience in that realm because they go to, you know, USA volleyball nationals and there's 40,000 athletes there. It's not going to be the same as it would be in Australia, where there aren't going to be 40,000 people playing boys' volleyball at the national level. So, I mean, that's one of the small differences. By no means does that make one greater than the other. But I think it's something that you have to recognize coming in. Athletes should not be discouraged if someone from another country has a higher skill level focus on your strength and what's going to get you onto the court. I think that's one of the big things that I tried to help both of our athletes, whether they were from the US or from outside the US, realize is that your strength is what's going to get you playing time on the court. And that's where you really need to focus on all your energy. I think that there are some other uh differences when you play for your national team. It might be a little bit, I won't say, easier to make a national team as an international athlete, but because there's maybe fewer people competing, you might have a higher international level of experience playing. I think that's a huge benefit that you can put on a resume as well. If you've ever represented your state or your region internationally or your country internationally, that's something that coaches definitely look for.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

And can you go into a little bit of detail about the kinds of sports that a lot of the males are playing in America compared to other countries? Because you know, growing up, I didn't see as many guys playing volleyball, whereas like basically every female I grew up with played volleyball at some point. Can you talk a little bit about the differences for people listening who don't really know about all the other sport options that guys tend to go in and maybe why the pool of male volleyballers is a bit lower?

Scholarships Title IX NIL And Funding Reality

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Yeah. A lot of it comes down to scholarships as well in division one, too. So division one and division two get merged into one division, division one in the United States, those scholarships max out at 4.5. You cannot give more than 4.5 scholarships away in men's volleyball in division one. And so, with there being less funding opportunities, a lot of Americans or international athletes will pursue American football, which is a headcount sport, which means you get everything paid for. Basketball is the other men's headcount sport, which gets everything paid for. Um, tennis usually gets pretty good deals because there's fewer people on the team. So maybe their scholarships can stretch a little bit farther. Uh distance runners tend to get a lot of money scholarship-wise in the US when they're running for their universities. But other university sports that I would say are are really, really popular in the United States currently, um, football, soccer has really taken off with, you know, the the World Cup having just been here. There's obviously a lot of buzz around that. Lacrosse is another one that's really growing fast in the United States, as well as ice hockey. So there are a lot of sports that you can compete in here in the US, but because again, of funding issues and because of Title IX, where we have to provide equal opportunities for both men and women, men's volleyball has fewer financial opportunities because American football, as I mentioned, men's volleyball gets four and a half, American football gets 115. So there is a very big difference in the balance of scales of funding. And so because there are so many financial opportunities on American football, there are a lot fewer for men's volleyball.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah, that is definitely a huge difference for sure. And that new five for five rule that's coming in, I think that will change some of those sports very dramatically that you just mentioned as well.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Absolutely. I think a lot of the sports that are benefiting from NIL and these other rules that are really coming into place tend to be American football and basketball. Women's volleyball is up there. Men's volleyball, I love, I love the sport, I love our athletes, but we just aren't as marketable or as watched as other sports are on TV. So we're not really catching the NIL deals. And I'm sure students will stay in their opportunities to do five for five, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see people leave early to play professionally instead of sticking around for another year in the NCAA or pursuing a master's degree or doing, you know, just entering into the workforce.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

I would say men's volleyball is not as marketable yet, but you never know what the future would be hold. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Yes. It's obviously gaining popularity here in the United States with more and more teams popping up. And that's great to see, but it still is not in the realm of, you know, 340 Division I teams sponsoring the sport like American football or basketball would be.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

Yeah, exactly. Well, for those people listening who are not aware of how the different divisions work within men's volleyball, we have David here to help explain a lot of the different divisions. I know that the there's been a lot more JUCO teams added as well. So can you talk a bit about the rise of some of the JUCO teams and the different divisions of competition? You mentioned D1 and D2 merge into D1. Can you talk about JUCO, NAI, California Community College, and then all the different NCAA ones?

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah.

NCAA NAIA And JUCO Explained Simply

SPEAKER_00 8:30

So I think that two-year colleges are a great way for students who maybe don't know exactly what they want to do or pursue at university. And it's usually at a lower cost than a full four-year institution. So there is nothing that I don't think coaches have any type of preconceived notions about students coming from a two-year university. I recruited athletes from two-year universities or colleges when I was in coaching and had great experiences with bringing students in for two to three years after they had had gone into that. I think that again, it's you have to find what's the right fit for you. Uh those junior colleges or two-year colleges tend to be for students, like I said, who maybe want to be a little bit more aware of cost consciousness, as well as not maybe knowing what they want to do fully in their post-volleyball careers. And so it's a great way to kind of build up and take a few different classes from different areas, leave with an associate's degree, which is a great thing to have because most four-year institutions are going to automatically accept you with that associate's degree and the minimum GPA requirement coming from your original institution. I think the four-year institutions are either going to be Division One, II, again, which is just Division I, Division III, and NAIA. All three are very, very different in how they can financially support you. Division one, two can sponsor you with both academic and athletic scholarships. You are able to stack both at most universities. That means you can receive $5,000 for being a volleyball player, but you got a $10,000 academic scholarship because you did really well in high school, and you can combine those to take $15,000. It's a great way if you're again trying to be uh find a great way to combine your academic success with your athletic success. Great way to combine those. Division three institutions can only award academic and financial need scholarships. So those are going to go again to students who have proven that academically they are a strong student. So if you are struggling in some of your high school classes, you're not quite sure if university is for you, an academic scholarship at a division three university is probably not in the cards. So you want to make sure that you're, again, you're applying to universities where you are going to be eligible for the highest amount of funding, as well as meeting some of your other goals when you're looking to play. NAIA is going to be similar to Division II. So you are going to have access again to both academic and athletic scholarships. However, NAIA tend to be smaller universities. So a lot of them are going to be liberal arts colleges that range anywhere between a thousand to three thousand students. They're not going to be these massive state-sponsored universities like, you know, UCLA. It's going to have 25 to 40,000 students. You're not going to see a lot of NAI schools larger than 5,000. So you kind of again have to fit and see, you know, what's the best financial, personal, and athletic fit for me to attend.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

And also knowing that a lot of times a lot of people hear the number one, two, and three, and they hear junior college one, two, and three, and they think that that's the relegation promotion and that you can move based on how you do. And we definitely talk about that basically in every podcast about there's no relegation and promotion.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

No relegation, no promotion. And so the university I coached at was division two for all sports except men's volleyball. So we got moved to division one. So we were division two, but every year we would beat at least one division one team. So it really doesn't matter necessarily what division you are. You tend to have the ability to beat at least one or two teams in the division that is above you. In the US, all the divisions are based off of is how much money your university generates through athletics and how many scholarships you can provide. There is not a metric of you have to be this good to stay in division one or you get relegated to division three. It doesn't typically happen like that. In order to move divisions in the US, you pay a fee. It's like $20 million and you're able to move divisions. So it has nothing to do with how good your team is. You look at right now, there's an athlete on the men's national team who just finished second in VNL. They lost to Poland in five sets, and one of the middles played at Division III Vassar. So it really doesn't mean that because you play at this university skill-wise, you're not good enough to play at a different university. It's really about finding the right fit for you. If playing at the highest level, division one is the most important thing for you, is being on that team. You also have to recognize you can come and be on UCLA's team doesn't mean you're going to play. So if playing is a higher priority for you, it might be a better idea to look at some of those other divisions where you are going to be on court a contributor. Because again, teams that are competing for a national championship every year, the competition level to be on court is going to be very, very high.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

And what we've found, but you probably found as well, is a lot of internationals think, well, if I'm going to move halfway across the world, I'd like to be able to actually play. Whereas I feel like Americans are not always as concerned with being on the court immediately. Cause I think a lot of Americans have also coped being like a freshman on varsity in high school. So they kind of understand how that works already. Yeah. So the riding the bench is not as a big of a deal as for an international maybe. But yeah, that's what we talk about a lot. We talk very much about finding your right fit and taking away all the like quote unquote brand recognition of schools that maybe international siblings or friends or international coaches or classmates have heard of, and they want to be able to say, Oh, yeah, I'm going to this university, because they want to be able to say the name of some uh university that someone knows. But I feel like particularly in the sports like with men's volleyball, just the sheer number of teams offered, there's going to be, of course, a lot of schools that men's volleyball players have never heard of before. So I think just because you haven't heard of the name of the university does not mean it's bad.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Absolutely not. Again, I had never heard of the university that I worked at until I moved back to the United States and I applied for a job and looked at their records and I was like, oh, they're they're good. And, you know, we continue to have winning seasons every year that I was there. And those were the things that I think were really great for I used as a recruiting tool is I would play these really big Division I teams. We would play Long Beach, we would play Grand Canyon, we would play BYU. And that actually helped me recruit athletes that were really good international players to come to a school they'd never heard of because we were playing at Penn State every year. And they had this opportunity to kind of show what their talent level was against these top-tier Division I programs. So I think that those are also things that you can ask a coach as you're going through the recruitment process, especially if it's a school that maybe you don't know the name brand of, but you can talk and say, well, what schools do you play in your non-conference schedule? Or, you know, who's who's in your conference schedule that I may know and want to prove myself against and show how good of a player I am. Because there are a lot of top-tier programs that do look down or take advantage of like this is going to be an easy win. And then they end up losing a couple of sets or an entire match to a school that they shouldn't lose to because they do come in with that air of, oh, it's just a small school that we've never heard of. So I think that there are a lot of advantages that can come with going to those smaller schools if they're the right fit for you.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

For sure. Yeah. I remember when I was a sophomore in high school, I said to my parents, I want to go to a 70,000 plus university. And they said, Why? And I actually didn't know the answer. I had just had one day just decided. And I was like, okay, I need to rewind here. I need to figure out why I all of a sudden decided that that was important. Looking back is laughable. I'm like, what was I thinking? But anyway. So I feel like with the internationals that are looking to play volleyball in the US for men's volleyball. I think a lot of people hear about women's volleyball. They see all the coverage about the stadiums selling out for Nebraska and things like that. Can you talk a bit about men's volleyball coverage and like the different, like the number of teams in Division I, the number of teams in NAIA, the number of G code teams?

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Yeah. So there's definitely a rise in in Division I programs. Like as I mentioned, with because of Title IX, there are not as many as there would be if Title IX did not exist. Title IX is a good thing, do not get me wrong. We want to make sure that everyone has fair access to athletics and scholarship funding. But it does hurt the opportunities for men's volleyball players. In Division I, II, there's maybe 70 programs. So it's not a whole lot when you consider there's over 3,000 universities in the United States. And uh Division III, there are over 100 programs that sponsor men's volleyball. So it is a little bit more common at the Division III level. And then in NAIA, again, it's going to be about 40 to 50. So not a lot in the NAIA. And junior colleges, again, it's growing, but it's still under 50. So it's not one of those sports where you can just throw a dart at the map and say, oh, this is this is a place I can play at. You do have to kind of look at where the hotbeds for volleyball are in the United States. And that's kind of where the universities are also going to be. You know, California probably has the most. Then the East Coast, Pennsylvania has a lot of opportunities between Division III and Penn State, being the Division I school. New York has a ton of Division III opportunities. And I know those are areas where a lot of students that are international want to live close to New York City and California. There's a few in Florida. There's a lot in Chicago, Wisconsin, Indiana that are popping up now in the Midwest, Missouri. So you really have to also do research year-round. California is going to be great year-round. But then you have to think all the American students are also applying to those schools, and all the other international students are also applying to their. So again, just be ready for that competition when you make that checklist of what's important to you and your university.

Fit Matters More Than Brand Names

SPEAKER_02 18:58

I think the living on campus, as some people listening will know, yes, you can live on campus in a lot of these places that offer men's volleyball, but then there's also places that don't have on-campus housing, but the off-campus housing is maybe a block or two blocks away and you can walk or you can carpal with someone from your share house. So not too bad.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

It's very common for athletes, if they do live off campus, they're living with other athletes. And it's very easy to catch rides back and forth to different places. Another thing that's great about living on campus as, you know, whatever your university is going to require, because every university in the US will be different on what they require for international students, but you're able to work as a student athlete. And because the spring season is the in season for men's volleyball, all of my international athletes worked all of fall. And that's another thing, important thing to ask your coach is what opportunities are there for me to work while I'm on campus? Do you allow me to work while I'm on campus? Are you supportive of me working while I'm on campus? Um, because on a student visa in I-20 in the US, the only place that you can work is on campus, whether that be the library, the gym, swiping people in, the cafeteria, whatever it ends up being, that on campus is the only place you're allowed to work. Um, so I definitely think that as you go through the recruitment process, that is an important question to ask your coaching staff that you're working with. And then also ask about what the norms are for living on and off campus. Our students typically lived, when I was coaching on the men's side, typically would live on campus year one through year three, and year four, they would find a place off campus that was again within five or six blocks of main campus.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

And I love the fact that students are actually allowed to work only on campus as internationals because I think it's a really positive thing where you can build more of a community, you get to have the opportunity, but also you're also competing against Americans who want to work on campus as well. So it's not like exclusive to internationals. But yeah, my sister was a tour guide at her uni. It was great. I got to watch her in action one time when I visited.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Oh, yeah. That's another great one. Student ambassadors. All universities want international student ambassadors. It's a great way for you to also work on your public speaking skills and and all these other great things. So that's another, like you mentioned, giving tours, but all great ways to earn money on campus.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

And we also say that there's definitely coaches and divisions where working is not necessarily realistic. So that's really great that you mentioned it's important to ask the coaches that are recruiting you like, hey, is how many people on your team work and are you supportive of working in the offseason and all that kind of stuff? Because yeah, there's definitely programs where it's probably not recommended or supported to be working because you're training and playing so much.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Yeah. And I think that as you go through the recruiting process, the best thing that you can be is open and honest. I think that's what as a coach I really, really appreciated when I worked with students who would give me. Honest answers when I would ask them, you know, do you think you're going to need to work on campus? And I don't make any judgments, but I just want to know because I want to make sure that I'm supporting you, but that you're also able to fulfill all of your obligations as a member of our team. And I think that honest conversations are really difficult for both coaches and players to have. But I think that that level of respect only goes up for that student athlete when I'm having a conversation with them. It can be the first or second time we're on a call, and I could just say, you know, I think you're going to be a really good fit for us. And the player, if they're not feeling it, I respect them more if they say, you know, coach, I really appreciate the opportunity. However, I think there's another school that's a better fit for me. I appreciated that so much more than getting ghosted or just, you know, getting dropped off of like, yeah, I'm really into this, but now a school I think is better emailed me. So I'm going to put all my money in this basket and I'm going to stop talking to this coach. It is fine and it happens. And unfortunately, coaches will also do that same thing to athletes, which I don't love. But I think that's again where you have to have some tough skin in the game if you really want to get recruited. There are going to be coaches who really are going to be champions for you and are going to want to support you from day one of you applying until you walk across that stage with your diploma. Those are the coaches that you really want to play for, not the coaches necessarily who might want to look at you as just, I get to utilize this person for four years and then they're out the door and I've got to replace them with somebody else. That's not a coach I would have done well with. That's not the type of coach I was. But that coach works for some people. Um, but I think that you'd really have to again go through and find figure out if you're not the right fit for a school, I think that it's pleasant for you to say, yes, you're you're not the right school for me. Um, I'm looking in other directions, but I really appreciate this opportunity because it does take time and energy for me as a coach to reach out to you and make time so that we can create these relationships, that you do feel comfortable with us to have those hard conversations. But again, my respect for you when when we play against each other, when you're at that other university, I'm still gonna say hi to you. I'm still gonna cheer for you because you're a great player. Um, I'll just be, you know, bummed you didn't come play for me to be a great player, but I still want to see you be successful. Whereas if you ghost me, I'm not gonna necessarily have that same type of rapport that I would have if you gave me that honest answer in the recruiting process.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Yeah, I think that open and transparent communication from both parties is really good, the coach and the athlete. And notice how I think for people listening, it's important to notice how we're talking about the athlete and the coach. The parents aren't discussed as much in this process because the athlete should be the one driving this conversation. They should be the ones reaching out to coaches, they should be the ones expressing their interest because the athlete is the one who's, you know, going to college, not the parent. And I know that there's a lot of discourse online about athletes being underage and maybe they shouldn't be the ones reaching out to coaches. But, you know, in the grand scheme of things, the athlete is the one that's gonna be playing for you and attending university, not the parents.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

I think that there are appropriate times where parents can ask to join a call. I think that that does have to be driven by the athlete and the coach. I think that if the parents want to be involved on the first call, it's really difficult for a coach to get a sense of who the athlete is. Because a lot of parents will tend to answer questions for their child because they do want to brag about how great their child is, how smart their child is. And a lot of people are really humble. They're not gonna say, yeah, I've got 12 A's in this class and I've, you know, got best spiker at this tournament. Like they're not always gonna lead with that, but parents absolutely are gonna push push those awards, which is great. But we know those things about the student. That's why we're recruiting them. We we already know how amazing this person is. They've already impressed us enough to get on this call. Now it's the deeper conversations of what do you want to study and why? And I think when parents are involved in that conversation, we get a less truthful answer sometimes. We get the answer of, I want to go into accounting because I love accounting. A lot of people don't love accounting. They go into accounting because their parent is an accountant or their parent wants them to be an accountant, and that's what they think that their pathway is going to be. And then they get to university and they realize I really love music and that's what I should have been pursuing this entire time. But it's a degree that's perceived as not as lucrative. So my parents maybe didn't push me in that direction. And so I think that there are times when parents should be involved in the conversations. Obviously, the parents are going to be helping with some part of the financial aspect of covering the rest of costs. So I do think it's prudent for parents to be aware of what honest costs are going to be after a scholarship is applied, after academic scholarships are applied, what visa costs are, all of those different things. But I would say in the first five conversations, it's not really something that the coach and the athlete need to have the parent present for. I think after that, once we've gotten to a comfortable part where I know if a parent hops on and the athlete gets a little more quiet, I'm okay with that because I've already had five conversations with this athlete. I know who they are, they know who I am. And then I get to have that conversation because I also want parents to trust me as a coach with, you know, caring for their child. I think that's the part that parents want to be involved in is that if I'm going to be sending my student 15,000 miles away to play volleyball, I need to know this person is legitimate and has my son's best or my daughter's best interests at heart. And that's why I would suggest parent calls after, you know, five or six calls, because I do want the parents to also trust me that I'm gonna help take care of their child being so far away from home.

Parents Money Talks And Scholarship Mindset

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Because as you mentioned earlier when we were chatting, that coaches wear so many different hats. And we have to be available to students when they have a breakup, if their parents are having issues, if there's a death in the family that they can't return home for, if there has been a substance abuse issue. These are all things that as a coach, I had to deal with. And there is no prep book for how to deal with them. So you have to make sure you have good relationships with these athletes and their families. So when these issues inevitably come up, because they always will, something will always happen that maybe won't be positive for the student athlete. And you want to make sure that they feel comfortable coming to you and saying, hey, coach, I have a problem. What would you do in that scenario? I I can't return home. My grandparent passed away. I'm really struggling. I'm gonna give you a week off of practice. I'm gonna have you, you know, meet with our on-campus counseling services. I'm gonna have you come in and just do a daily check-in with me, and we're not even gonna talk about anything volleyball related. We're just gonna talk and I want to make sure you're okay. Those are all things that have nothing to do with skill training, video, recruiting, but I want to make sure, and I think all coaches should make sure they're ready to do those tasks and make sure that they're ready to do that with every athlete on their team.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

What is a favorite question that you've been asked by a parent on a call?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Wow. There's I would say a lot of them revolve around funding. I don't know why that's it's not my favorite question, but I think that students are so shy to ask about scholarships. Parents never are. Uh, because it's one of the first things we're taught as Americans is, you know, you got to be really smart, you have to have high need, or you better be a good athlete. Like those are the three ways you're getting money to go to university because it's so expensive. So it was always when I would let parents know what our financial package was, and like, is there anything else that we can do? Anything else that we can pile on? And, you know, I think that it really pushed me because then I started actually looking for external scholarship sources that were not tied to the university. And there are a ton of scholarship resources that are out there for students who are willing to put in the time to put in an application. So I don't know if it was my favorite question per se, but I think it actually forced me to be a better coach and a better recruiter because it forced me to look into additional financial resources that are available that aren't just tied to volleyball or academics. And I really liked that I could then say, yeah, I actually have this additional resource for you that you can find more funding from that doesn't rely on your grades coming out of high school. Um so I'd say that was a question that I think made me a better coach for sure.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

I think that there's a big cultural difference between speaking about money in America versus speaking about money overseas. And with me being half Australian, half American, and having lived half my life in both countries, it to me it's very jarring how Americans just you talk about all this kind of stuff. It's a bit more normal. I think also because of how expensive uni is, you know that like all the costs are listed on the websites. You can look at how much it costs to live in a shared room versus a dorm that has like four adjacent rooms with a shared kitchenette. You can see how much it costs to have three meals a day versus unlimited meals versus like you can see all of that. It's all very clearly laid out. And that's just not really how it operates in Australia, like the cost of what it would be to spend a year at university living on campus or living off campus at home. Those costs are not set out like that. So we've had people that we've worked with, as well as people that we haven't worked with, who get very, what's the right word, like surprised when the word budget comes up. Just that word budget. Some people will just, you can see a physical reaction. They don't know why that word is coming up. They don't want to talk about it because they don't fully understand what it means, or they've never thought about what their budget is for their son or daughter to go play volleyball in the US. They've just not even considered a large like number, whatever that might be. Yeah. And I remember we spoke with a trahlon coach on our podcast earlier, and she was saying that a lot of times athletes have no idea what their budget is, and it can be a little bit frustrating for her because she just doesn't really have much to go off of.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

But we spoke a bit more off-camera and I explained a lot of the cultural differences, particularly within Australia. And then we finished that conversation. She was like, oh, that makes so much more sense why these kids don't know, or the parents, both of them don't know what their budget is. Yeah. So that was good.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

That was like a bridging the cultural gap there. And I think there will be so many because I feel like a lot of the um perceptions about being an athlete in the United States in every country I've recruited from is based off of TV and movies. And every TV and movie gets it in completely wrong. If any TV producer, movie producer is watching this and they want to hire me as a consultant to make sure you get it right moving forward, I am available. But I think the perception from most international families in the beginning process is that full rides are the norm and not the exception.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

I think that regardless of someone's financial situation, it's what you said before. It's important to know that the movies definitely make it seem like everyone is on a hundred percent scholarship and that is definitely not. Would be great if that was the case. But then of course, internationals need to worry about visa costs. And as someone who's an American citizen, I've been quite surprised at how those visa costs have gone up. And at one stage, to get Australian passport was one of the most expensive passports in the world as well. So that was interesting. I didn't realize that at the time because mine still had 10 more years on it for Australia. But I was like, wow, this is pretty crazy. This is the most expensive passport right now to renew. So those costs can all add up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

What I want your athletes and their families to also, I would say, take away from the scholarship conversation, because I know I've talked about it a lot. Your worth as a volleyball player is not attached to the dollar amount of your scholarship. And that is not just for volleyball. That is for any athlete that is out here. Your worth as an athlete is not determined by the scholarship amount that you receive. It just isn't. We have finite rules in place. We have things that we have to follow. We have needs that the needs from a team each year, position-wise, are different. I, you might be the best Libro in the world, and you're worth a full ride scholarship, but I've already got two on the team. And I really need an outside hitter that's going to score out of system. And that's where I have to put my money because that's a point scoring position. And not that Libreo's, I was a Libro. It was so, so important. So I need a great Libro to pass and play defense and set out of system and do all these things. But do not attach your worth as an athlete to what your scholarship assignment is. It's not something that is done to ever attack you as a person or your self-confidence. Don't let that happen. You are a great athlete. Coaches would not offer you a spot on the team if you don't have value. Remember that.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

For sure. And that should be put on posters all over the United States and all over the world for sure. Exactly. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Because there are many coaches who, like you said, they will watch someone and will want them to come play for them and will want to offer way more money than they actually have. And it's not a reflection of you as an athlete. It's just a reflection of the current budget or the needs of the roster. Yeah. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

And I would say the nice thing about men's volleyball is that you can get scholarship increases. So that is something that you like if you come in as a walk-on or a low scholarship player, but you end up developing really, really well. Because I never got to see you play live. I only saw your video because you live in Australia and I live in North Carolina. And so, you know, you come to campus, we would increase athletes' scholarships when they they performed well. And so it is possible to have that happen as well.

The Highlight Video Coaches Actually Want

SPEAKER_02 36:56

Well, let's segue then into video footage. So a men's volleyball player who's listening to this, or a men's volleyball parent who's listening to this, what kind of stuff do you want to see in a highlight video that you think is really important? And what are some typical things that you see that you consider fluff that really just don't need to be in there?

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Yeah. So I think I'm gonna go by position so that way I can get really detailed in what I looked for because I think that's that's important. Recent, regardless of which position you play, it needs to be recent. If you're sending me highlights when, you know, you were one meter 80 and everybody else is one meter 40, but that was three years ago, I don't need to see that. I don't need to see the film where you were the giant playing against people that were, you know, much shorter than you were. So we want to see recent film. So that way we know it's up to date. You're at your current skill level when we're watching. If you are a Libero, we want to make sure you can pass. Number one. That should be the first three minutes of your video is you passing. I need to see movement left, right, short, and back. I want to see directional all. I'm gonna see you passing float serves. I'm gonna see you passing top spin. So that way I know top spin can be a little bit easier to pass because it doesn't really float or move, but I want to see you pass everything and keep them, I would say, in categories like that, where you could say moving to my left on a float serve, moving to my left on a topspin, and then same with back, same with front and same to your right. I would also, as a Libero, see digging, cross court, and down line. Those are both really, really important. I want to see that you can dig and read a hard-driven ball, not just on a closed block, but if there's a hole in the block, are you able to step in and make a good read and keep the ball alive? Third thing I would look for in Libreos is out-of-system setting. So when the setter has dug a ball, I want to see that you can set uh the right side, the left side, and the back row options. So you're able to put up a hittable ball when the ball has been dug to you by the setter. If you are an outside hitter, the first things I really want to make sure I see are unfortunately, they have to do everything. Outsides have to do it all. So you've got to be able to score out of system. That's the thing that I think is really, really important for coaches to see in your first couple of seconds of video is can I score when there's a double block up or a triple block up? Then I want to see passing because outsides, you have to pass. You got to be able to pass the ball to play the ball. And so they've got to be able to pass. Blocking is probably a skill that gets utilized the least, but I think it's really, really important in being an outside because so many teams have strong opposites. You're gonna have to help block against those. So strong blocking moves, serving is another thing that has to be on there, a strong serve. And then I would say the least important from an outside is gonna be your defense. Not saying it's not important, but your floor defense is gonna be the last thing that I look at because it's the skill that can't score me points. It doesn't score a point by you keeping a ball off the floor. Whereas all the other four, you're blocking, you're attacking, you're serving, and you're out of system attacking, those are all going to result in a point if you do them correctly. If you are a middle, blocking needs to be your number one skill. You're a middle blocker, not a middle hitter. Unfortunately, the the higher levels you play at, the less you're going to get set. So if you are determining, I'm a good player because I can score when I get set, but you can't block, you're gonna get overlooked by the top teams. You need to be able to block, make good reads on back row players, um, whether it's the bic or the D-ball coming out of the back row. You've got to be able to move pin to pin and be able to work on sticking with your middle as well. Obviously, you want to see that you're able to attack in system for a high efficiency attached stats as a middle blocker to make sure that we can see that you're hitting around or above 400. That is kind of like the if you can hit 400 as a middle blocker in the US, you're going to play if you're also a good blocker. So we want to make sure that we're hitting at that high percentage. And then lastly, uh, or the last two positions opposite, you've got to score out of system. Score out of system, scoring in system. So when this the pass isn't perfect or the set isn't perfect, you have to score. And I want to see that in the first 30 seconds of your video. It should be the first thing I see is your most impressive out of system kill. That's what's going to grab a coach's eye. You don't have to pass, but you can throw in passing uh stats. Blocking is probably the other most important thing. The most percentage of balls go to the left pin and opposites and setters block at the right pin. So you want to make sure your blocking skills are at a high level. Serving, also, you've got to be able to score points with your serve and then your floor defense again being probably the last thing. With setters, I would say that the I would say the most important skill is going to be transferring the ball. So when you have a bad pass, are you able to push the ball out or push the ball back depending on where the ball took you to? Are you able to get your feet to the ball and put up a hittable volleyball for your teammates? You know, working not just with great passes. Show me you setting off of terrible passes. Show me you saving a ball that was going over the net and you, you know, you one hand flick to your middle and your middle sticks with you and drops it on the three-meter line. So I think that there are a lot of skills within that with setting. I want to see you set back row options in system. I want to see you blocking again because so many balls are going to go to the outside hitters where you're blocking. We want to see how you line up with them. Floor defense and serving are also really important as a setter. I would say more important than they are for the other positions, like outsides and opposites. I want to see you be able to keep a ball up so that we can dig the ball to our Libero so they can set while you're you're on the ground. I know that was a lot of information, but those are the things that are going to stick out. If you are a middle, I you don't start off with you serving. Don't start off with you blocking. If you're an outside or an opposite, out of system attacking, scoring a point. That's what we want to see first. Libro passing. Setter, nailing a perfect set on a maybe not great pass. Those are the things we want to see first in the first 10 seconds of your video to keep us watching.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

And when you look at the angles of video that gets sent through to you, do you want aerial shots from the same side that that team is playing from? Or do you prefer seeing videos where you can see the whole court maybe from like the middle?

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Typically, I would say from the back line of the side that the player that we're recruiting is on. Especially if they're a setter or a passer. It's just a lot easier to gauge what their movement. Was tracking the ball. How did their set actually make it all the way out to the antenna? Because when you're watching from the sideline of the whole court, it's a little bit tougher to see some of those movements.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. And we also have had athletes or sorry, coaches from other sports who say we prefer to have a running highlight video where it's not being stopped and circled. As a coach, do you prefer someone to be circled and then sent through? Or would you prefer just a caption down the bottom that's like, this is my number, this is the color, and then you can just track them the whole time?

SPEAKER_00 44:35

I liked both. So obviously, highlight tapes are just going to show us the best of the best. But I want to see full gameplay. Circling yourself is unnecessary. You can just tell me your number. We know what position you are. If you're, if someone's attacking, I'm going to assume that that's you. And your number's going to be on the back of your jersey. And so if you're showing us that highlight clip, don't need to circle or highlight who you are in the actual video. Just say it in the caption. This is my number. This is the position I'm playing. If your jersey number changes for any reason, just let us know that it changes. But I want both. I want the highlight reel is like the appetizer where I can see, oh, they've got all these different skills that I'm looking for. And then the full game footage is the full meal. This is where I can see, you know, obviously everyone looks great in a highlight reel when they get 12 kills in a row, but in this full game footage, he had one kill in 15 attempts. That's not good enough for the standard that our team is looking for. And so I think it's also part of the athlete responsibility to not be deceptive and just providing highlight clips. Because again, everyone is an all-star in their own highlight clip. We want to make sure that you actually can compete well at a high level because we want you to be successful when you come to our gym. We don't want you to get there and struggle because you showed us your 10 best hits and that's all that's in the highlight reel.

Full Match Film Transfers And Respect

SPEAKER_00 46:01

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

And I think something that you mentioned before as well as you were saying that when you come on campus, there's potential for scholarship to be increased because you've only seen highlight video and then you get to see them obviously play and develop. So we see that a lot, especially in other sports. There's a lot of coaches who will say to us, hey, we just can't recruit someone that we haven't seen play live. We're just not comfortable with that. Yeah. So a lot of those coaches will say, if you know, if you can get over to the US and start in a different division, prove yourself, and then maybe transfer. Do you feel like that happens a bit more with volleyball, or do you think a lot of coaches take the highlight videos and the full games more at face value?

SPEAKER_00 46:43

I will say it's probably different case by case. I think that there are athletes that come over with the intention of, I'm gonna start at this school because they gave me a great scholarship and I'll use my stats and this. The negative is that that can also not work out in your favor. And you might come over thinking you're going to be, you know, an all-conference athlete at this smaller school, and then that doesn't happen. And then that bigger school is definitely not going to be chasing after you. I would say that smaller schools, when they're in the recruiting process, they're not thinking about this athlete is going to be leaving. They're thinking about this athlete is invested in us. They want to come to us for this reason because they want to stay. They like the culture that I've built. They like me as a coach. They like the team that they've gotten to meet through Zoom calls or whatever. I think that there are dangers in walking that tightrope of I'm going to go to a smaller school to transfer to a bigger school because it's not, I would say less than 50% are going to work out that way.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

Yeah. I think also international is getting used to the system because I think it's hard to say, oh, I'm going to come to America and then transfer when you haven't even experienced what the system is like yet. Right. I think it's good for people to just be open-minded and to go, yep, I'm going to America and I'm going to be a great teammate. I'm going to be really coachable. I'm going to try my hardest and, you know, see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

And that did happen. We had athletes that had played when I was coaching on the men's side for their junior national teams. And I was like, oh, they're going to be great for us and this. But then we would have an American that would beat them out in their position. And it was really, really hard for them because they're like, but I'm a starter for my junior national team. And they are not for their junior national team. And so it is one of those things that it creates a tough mental challenge for you as an athlete. Am I going to rise to the occasion and become better for this? Or am I going to go the route of I should be in this position, but I'm not? And so it can, like I said, it can work against you. But I think it's also if you decide that you go to a university and it's not the right fit for you, you do put up these amazing numbers and you want to transfer, and schools are interested in you. It is okay to do what's best for you. It is absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

But also making sure that when you're doing what's right for you, you're being a good person throughout that process and you're not just you're not kind of leaving immediately when something gets tough. You're having a conversation with your coach and you're having those tough conversations instead of just being silent and then all of a sudden saying, I'm going to enter the transfer portal.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

It's hard for coaches to tell students that you're not the right fit for our program and we won't be recruiting you any further. It is difficult. But I think that as students realize what's important to them, they end up in the situations that are best for them. We've had athletes that returned home to finish school because coming to the US just was not the right fit for them, but they had to try it out. And I had a lot of respect for them for trying it out. And they had that conversation with me and just said, hey, I really appreciate the opportunity. However, the distance being from home is tough. The training schedule is different. I'm just, I wanted to try it. I tried it, and I want to pursue something different. It is okay to do those. But as you said, I think it is really important to remain kind of humble in that experience. If you are trying to pursue a perceived better opportunity of a stronger university, that it is important to remember that there's a chance it won't work out for you there and to not burn bridges on your way out, because it is a small world. Volleyball in general, but men's volleyball even smaller. So you want to make sure that you do remain respectful through all those processes.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

I think one of my favorite videos in that topic was the Yukon women's basketball coach who was talking about a recruit that he was recruiting. And he said, This person sat down in their chair. We started the video call, and I could tell that this person thought they were too good to speak to me. And this was before he was coaching at UConn, like way, way before. And he said, This person didn't even know which which foot was their pivot foot. And they were just sitting there thinking that we were like not good enough for them. And he said that that behavior and that like attitude just like oozed through the screen. And he could feel that this person just thought that they were too good to speak to him. And so that was a really interesting video for me because I think that so many internationals think that they're going to potentially end up somewhere that they're too good for.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

And so that video is really, in my opinion, is a very important video because it especially as an international going into a team environment in the US college system, you have no idea what you're going into really. So you should never be having a conversation with the coach where you are oozing that you think you're too good for their team.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Right. I think that that it gives false hope to both sides of like, oh, they might actually come to school here, like they're interested in us. And it makes that conversation, if you decide not to go to that school, even more difficult because the coach thought you were really interested in the university.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

Yeah. Yeah. And so some of the athletes that we've helped for men's volleyball are very curious about post-college pathways.

Pro Volleyball Dreams Need Daily Goals

SPEAKER_02 52:25

Yeah. And they have asked me a couple of questions. The question that always seems to come up is do international pathways for those pathways does it matter which division I played at in college? So that's a big question that they ask us. Yeah. And then a lot of parents will also ask us, what are the pathways post-US college for professional volleyball?

SPEAKER_00 52:50

Yeah, the level you played at does not necessarily matter. It's the level of your play that matters, if you're going to be a pro or not. And I would say that's for again for any sport. If you are a baller at Division Three, you can play professionally. If you're second team all conference in division three, not to burst your bubble, but you're probably not going to sign a professional contract. It's just, it's not in the cards for what your talent level is. Again, in a realistic conversation, if you think getting to play in the NCAA is hard, getting to play pro is even harder. And there's an even smaller pool of athletes that can be drawn from. But I think that coming to the NCAA, training at a high level, whether it's Division One, Division III, NAIA, you're going to get good competition. If you are a first team all conference player, division three, an all-American at Division II, you absolutely have opportunities to play professionally. Absolutely. In Division I, if you're first team all conference, if you are an all-American at any level, you are going to play professionally. You have the ability to. You can play professionally if you're not one of those things. But again, the pay is not going to be amazing. You might get a 500 euro stipend for the month plus housing. But if you want to say that you played professionally, there will be a team that potentially can take you or will sign you to a contract. But again, I think it is a something that a lot of athletes have now is after this five for five and my NIL, I'm going to go play pro. I wish it was that easy. I really wish it was that easy to make it into that level because everyone thinks that they work hard and they do. But playing pro is so much more than just working hard. It's recovery. It's physical traits that are genetically given to you. There are certain things that other people have that you just will not have genetically, and you can't change that. And so I think that there are also things that people understand video-wise that makes them a better professional athlete than someone else. There are so many skills that go into being a professional athlete that I think a lot of people just overlook or think it's if I score the most points on my team, I'm going to be a pro. It's not necessarily going to be that easy for you. So it is making sure that you're doing work with dietitians, sports psychologists. If you have access to all of those things, utilize them for every step that they're worth. What's your goal setting process? Do you know how many athletes I work with that do not set goals for themselves? And it's just, it's crazy to me that they have this. I want to play professionally. Well, what goals are you achieving daily to get to that? What do you mean? What written goals do you have? I don't have any. So you just have a dream in mind. You don't even have a goal. The dream is to play pro, but you're not doing any of the steps in between. So the same I would say for NCAA athletes. That should be your dream, not your goal. Your goals are going to be the things that you do every single day that are going to get you that offer to play in the United States. How many serv receive reps are you doing in a week? How many mindfulness activities are you doing that don't even include a physical volleyball per week? Like those are all things that, you know, go to fuel your body mentally, physically, spiritually. All of those things are really, really important if your goal is to be an NCAA athlete. Set your goals and stick with them. Find an accountability partner, a coach, a parent, a teacher that you trust, a therapist, whoever it is, and work with them and show them these are the goals that I'm going to meet so I can achieve my dream. Playing in the NCAA is not your goal. That's your dream. Again, your goals are going to be those daily things that you take care of. I know I sound like a motivational speaker right now, but I'm just trying to give the best advice as I can to all athletes. You don't want to set your sight on something and then not do the little steps that are going to actually get you to that thing that you want.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

Yeah. So important and so overlooked. And I also think that that is a symptom of social media where people are just seeing the end result.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

Instant gratification.

SPEAKER_02 57:08

Instant gratification. They're seeing the end result. They're seeing lots of people achieve things that you wouldn't necessarily see before social media. So they're not seeing the behind the scenes of how people are getting to those goals. Um, but I also think something especially for international athletes, different to Americans, because I grew up with the the dream and the goal. Yeah. All my goals to get to playing college sport, because that's just what everyone around me was doing. That's what I wanted to do. But I know internationals don't always think about that until potentially sometimes it's too late. So I think, especially for internationals in sports where, like men's volleyball, where it's a lot smaller options to give yourself time to achieve your goals. Because if you're in a your gap year or you're just about to graduate grade 12, and you go, Oh, I'd like to play at UCLA or play at University of Hawaii men's volleyball, you're giving yourself a very short period of time and the roster is probably already full. So you want to like give yourself time to get feedback, give yourself time to talk to coaches, give yourself time to be on the coach's radar, making sure that you're getting all kinds of things in like set up for you to have even the possibility of a roster spot. Cause I think the number one thing that we hear from coaches across all sports is we are finding out about these athletes too late. So that's like the biggest thing for all of our sports. And then, of course, with smaller sports like field hockey and men's volleyball, there's not very many teams, even water polo as well, just not very many teams. So making sure that people are giving themselves a long runway to be able to set things up for them to achieve. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

Yeah, I would say a lot of athletes in the US are discovered when they're 13, 14, 15 years old. And because we can see them in person, we can go to these large events. As an international student, you should be making yourself known around the same time. I'm not saying that you can't be discovered later in age, but if you're trying to give yourself the best possible scenario for a positive introduction, 13, 14, 15. I know that's wild for me to say, but it is when athletes start setting themselves apart from other athletes here. And again, it can be as simple as an introduction of I just want to get put on your radar. Here is my skill tape, here are my academic aspirations. Send it off to a coach. They cannot respond until a certain date. It is different for every sport on when they can respond to you. Look at the NCAA rules so you know when that is for yours. Volleyball typically is June 15th going into their year 11. So it is a different time. Obviously, that's during our summer, Australian winter. So it is a little bit different in how things are arranged there. But that is typically when the first offers go out. So you still have two years of high school left. By some of the time, some American athletes have already committed to their university. I'm not trying to scare you and say that there are no up options if you are, you know, you found the sport later in life. There are universities who are always open to accepting an international student. Again, you have to be okay with it not being the number one university in that sport. It might not be the top 10 in that sport, but it is one of those things that if it's your dream to play in the NCAA, make sure you've done your due diligence, you've gotten out in front of these coaches early to let them know you exist and then stay in contact with them. Every time there's a big tournament, anytime you've represented your country, send over video. Let them know like you're still pushing to pursue. Once they're able to communicate with you, they'll set up a time to meet, or they'll let you know, thank you, but we we aren't need of your position. Or, you know, we we've already offered someone in that position. So, but getting out in front of them early is the most important thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:07

And I remember when I was in middle school, I don't think that rule had passed yet, where they were there was like the June 15th. So I remember people around me in middle school in America were getting offers and negotiations were going on, and we were like 11 years old. Like it was crazy. I'm glad there's more rules now. And I know that like generally Americans are committing earlier than any other nationality, naturally. And I think sometimes internationals get concerned when they see commitments from Americans. But I think even regardless of when commitments are posted, international kids should be putting themselves out there earlier, even if they're not 100% sure if America is where they want to go. They need to put the feelers out there, they need to give feedback, do all of that stuff, even if it's maybe just one of a couple different options that they're thinking about for post-high school life.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

If anyone is interested in pursuing sports post-high school, do research on all the countries that offer sport scholarships or sport opportunities for collegiate level, university level, United States, Canada, United Kingdom, whatever country it is, Australia, New Zealand, looking at uh these places, find out what it takes to play there, what what it is like for an international student in these countries. There are a lot of Australians that actually do end up playing in Canada as well, in U Sports, uh their version of the NCAA. And I think that there are a lot of great opportunities. But if you know you want to play a sport, look at all your options. Um, and the sooner that you recognize this is when I have to enter the market in Canada, this is when I have to enter the market in America, this is when I have to enter the market in Australia, you'll just number one, you'll be a better organized person because you're gonna have all these deadlines down. But I think you're gonna put yourself in the best scenario to be recruited by the right university. If you know I want to play a sport, where can I play this sport? And you just do your due diligence in that area.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:10

And I think what's been good is that we're seeing more and more people across Australia that are in grade nine, grade eight reaching out to us. And I'm very pleased about that. I think it's never too early. Um, whereas even like five, six years ago, people were still not really reaching out at that age. And now it's getting much better because I think like the US pathway is just growing and growing and growing, especially in Australia. So it's been really exciting to see so many people like exploring it and thinking about, you know, starting earlier. And yeah, it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

So the best thing I think any human can do is spend some part of their academic life outside of their home country. It was the best decision I ever made. It's led to so many cool opportunities for me and obviously for you as well, being able to pursue a career within doing something similar. But whatever it is, even if you're not playing a sport, I want more people to spend a semester abroad or a full year abroad or doing something where they can learn in another culture. I just think it's really, really important, especially right now in the world, just making sure we all kind of have a greater understanding of how things can be. Yeah. And it helps grow compassion, et cetera, all those fun things.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:25

So we'll finish off in a moment with this podcast. Um, thank you for being so generous with your time. So we've covered a lot of topics. We've talked about recruiting, we've talked about video footage, we've talked about experiences that you can have post-college life in the US. We've talked about all the different kinds of countries that you've recruited, things that you want to see from your athletes, transferring all the different kinds of topics. Is there anything that you'd like to end the podcast with that we haven't covered today?

Checklist Method For Choosing A Uni

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

I think the biggest thing that I always want to impart all of my athletes with is the right fit. I know we've talked about it a lot on the podcast. And this would, again, not just be limited to volleyball players, but if you don't have a checklist, I rec I recommend you start a checklist. In your checklist, don't do it with your family members, don't do it with your friends, don't do it with your partner, do it just by yourself. And write down, I would say, 10 to 15 things that are really important to you in your university experience. That could be, I want to play for the number one team in the country. I want to have little to no debt when I graduate. I want to be close to home. I want to be in a large city. I want to be in a place where there's a community. I want to be playing in front of a lot of fans. No one can tell you what your 10 to 15 things are going to be on your checklist. But then you need to rank order them. What's gonna be my most important thing? What's gonna be my next important? Once you have that checklist down. Then you can share it with your family and let them know these are the things that are most important to me. And these are the five schools that I think might be a really good fit for me to get these 10 to 15 things. Because if you're trying to wait for the school that's free in your backyard, your parents can go to every game, you have a million fans, and you get a million dollar NIL, that school doesn't exist. Like it just doesn't exist for anyone. And so I think that that checklist is really going to show you of these five schools, which ones meet the most of those checklist items. And it's going to help you really narrow down. I know it seems so elementary and so basic, but I'm going to tell you that it's going to give you your best shot at landing at happiness on your first choice when you apply to universities. It's going to make sure that you have, you know, that good rapport with your coach. That should definitely be one of the 15 things that you have because you're going to be spending about four to five years with this person. You want to make sure that you trust them, that you, you know, can share information with them, that you feel safe with them being that far away from home. Those things are going to be really, really important. And when you share that information with your family, your family's going to see what's important to you and how it might differ from what's important to them. And that is okay. It is okay to have a different set of 15 things from what your mom or your dad has, or what your grandparents have, or what your brothers and sisters might have, because it's you and your journey to playing in the NCAA is not going to be like everyone else's. Everyone's journey is different. Doesn't matter what sport, doesn't matter what gender, their journey cannot be compared to yours. So if someone else receives an offer when they're 15 and you haven't received an offer yet, don't stress. That's not a part of your journey. That's not something that you have to have done. If it's not on your checklist, I need an offer June 15th. The minute I turn 16, don't put that on your checklist. It shouldn't be on there, by the way. But I think that those are things that you can't judge your journey based on what's happened with someone else. It doesn't, again, give you value or take value away from you based on what happened to someone else. So if you ever have questions, I am always here and happy to answer them. I I want to make sure great people have great opportunities. And I just want to say thank you, Claire, so much for having me on the podcast. It's been really, really great to chat about my first love volleyball. And any way I can help anyone, I'm I'm always happy to do so.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:33

I do want to end actually with the second part to that question. If someone has made a checklist, yes, and they have gone through the process and they're looking towards the end of the process and they have their offers in front of them, and they actually don't have a lot of things in front of them from their checklist. What advice can you give them about their mindset in that moment? And the example I like to give is maybe someone who has either worked really, really hard in high school to improve athletically and has gotten feedback and has taken on that feedback to work very specifically on something. Or maybe it's someone who started the process a bit later and was convinced that they would be going to a big brand name school. Yeah. And that they get to the end of the process and there's no big brand name schools anywhere on their offer list. What advice can you give someone for that next part of their process?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:38

If you love the sport and playing it for the right reasons, you're going to be willing to sacrifice some of the things on your checklist. You have to. There's not going to, like I said, there's not going to be a school that checks off every single box. Or you might not even get your number one and your number two, but you might get three through 15. And that's still a pretty great school if you're going to get those. I would say don't be discouraged because goals are there for us to reach for. I think that if you are dead set on this big name university, again, it's very finite, the number of them. And heartbreak might be in your cards, like it might be in your future that they're not going to offer to you. It's okay to shoot for them. And I want you to. I want you to try and be the best version of yourself as a volleyball player and as a person as possible. And that means trying to get the offers from the best schools in the country. But with that also comes, they may not offer you. And that is okay. That means that you get to then go to a competitive school that plays against them and then you get to show out against them. Or it might mean that, you know, division one might not be the right fit for you. And you're going to meet amazing friends and have an amazing experience at your division three institution. Don't change the name brand or associate name brand with my experience is going to be amazing, because it might not. Not every university is for every student. And that's another piece of advice I would think is really, really important to know. I wish every great athlete came to play for me, but I knew that my university, my program was not right for every athlete. And you can't take it personally if those things happen. Again, there are 18 roster spots. 18. That's it. There are no other additionals. It doesn't matter if you're a walk-on. It's limited to 18. After that, 18, if you're number 19, that's really unfortunate. However, there are going to be other programs that have interest if you're willing to sacrifice some of those things from your from your checklist.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:42

I think that's something that everyone should really take into consideration when they're doing this recruitment process, whether you're a men's volleyball player or not. It's really, really easy to take this whole thing personally. So easy. And what you said is so important. It's just as much as you can, try not to take it personally because there's so many coaches out there who want to offer 36 people a roster spot and they want to give 100% scholarship to everyone and they just cannot. And that's not a reflection of you as a men's volleyball player to just quit and give up. It's just a reality of the nature of U.S. college recruiting. So I think that's a very, very important thing for people to remember.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:22

Because there's going to be a lot of coaches that are probably heartbroken by players telling them, you're not the right fit for my talents. And so it is one of those things that we we both experience it on both sides where we're not always the right fit. But again, it's not a reflection of who you are as a person or as a talent. It just may not be the right fit at that time. So stick with it. If you want to play volleyball, there will be a school that's willing to work with you. Um, it just may not be a school that meets a lot of your checklist items.

Rapid Fire Picks And Final Advice

SPEAKER_02 1:12:55

And we might with some rapid fire think of the first thing that comes to mind when I ask these questions. Okay, I like this. Favorite place that you've visited in the US.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:10

Chicago, hands down.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:12

Most underrated school in the US in any division.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

Creighton. Love Creighton. It's in my home city of Omaha, Nebraska. And I think that they do a phenomenal job of supporting athletics. Um they were in the same conference as us when I was at Georgetown, so I got to go home and play. They support their teams so, so well. Super underrated, highly, it's a great, great school.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:39

Most overrated thing on someone's checklist when making a decision.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:44

I would definitely say like I have to be at the number one school in the country. I'm gonna make the team in the number one school in the country. They're recruiting three people a year out of millions. It's not it's tough. But I would say that's probably the most overrated thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:02

Most underrated thing for a high school athlete to ask a current player of a team that they're getting recruited by.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:10

I would say social life outside of volleyball, I think is something that's underrated. And I'm not talking about going to parties. I'm talking about like what do students actually do with their free time when they have it? Is it something that is applicable or do we just keep playing volleyball in our free time? Like it is one of those things that I think is really important to ask. Do we do trips together when we have fall break? Like, are we going to the mountains to go hiking as a team? Or like what do we do as a team when there's those those awkward breaks in the year?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:42

And last one, which is one of my favorite ones to ask, when you think of your favorite person you've ever coached for men's volleyball, you're probably imagining someone's face. Yep. What is it about that person that you loved coaching?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:58

That they wanted to be the best version of themselves and they would do anything that we asked of them to do that. If it was washing, helping us wash jerseys, because we didn't have an assistant coach that did those things. So I had to wash those. And they were the first person to ask, like, can I help you with this? They were the first one to ask about extra video. They were the first ones to tell me that their mom was doing great and coming to visit from out of the country. Absolutely. I think they just did everything because they were a great person and a great volleyball player. So that just made it even better and more enjoyable to coach that person.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:35

Awesome. Well, thank you very much, Coach Halert, for your time. Thank you for imparting all of your wisdom. And our community is very lucky to have you. And we appreciate you being on this podcast and taking time away from your busy schedule to chat with us today.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:51

No, this was great. Thank you so much. I'm happy to come back anytime and talk more about any topics. And hopefully I can make a trip down to Australia and I'd be happy to do some in-person, you know, uh mentoring as well. Um, we'll we'll work on that. We'll work on that. But no, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.