Have you ever felt like unseen barriers are holding you back from receiving the healing you need? Today, Wes and Lisa tackle the concept of 'dumping the junk' to break through the spiritual blocks that often prevent us from embracing wholeness. Join us as we dissect the emotional clutter, negative influences, and personal attachments that create obstacles to healing, contrasting them with the pure intentions and faith of those who sought Jesus in the Bible.
In this heart-to-heart, we delve into the biblical narrative of Jairus, drawing parallels between His faith-driven quest for healing and our own modern-day challenges. We explore the power of the right questions and actions in the pursuit of wellness, sharing stories that resonate with the same determination and boldness Biblical figures displayed. It's about shifting focus from the causes of sickness to the limitless possibilities of what God can do through us, and we're here to guide you through that transformative journey.
Wrapping up with Wes's profound insights, we emphasize that divine healing is a dynamic partnership, not a spectator sport. This episode is a rallying cry for all listeners to step into their authority as disciples of Jesus, to pray with conviction, and to prioritize those in need over societal expectations. We leave you with five key points to carry into your own ministry and discipleship, hopeful that our reflections will empower you to live out your faith with purpose and passion.
Have you ever felt like unseen barriers are holding you back from receiving the healing you need? Today, Wes and Lisa tackle the concept of 'dumping the junk' to break through the spiritual blocks that often prevent us from embracing wholeness. Join us as we dissect the emotional clutter, negative influences, and personal attachments that create obstacles to healing, contrasting them with the pure intentions and faith of those who sought Jesus in the Bible.
In this heart-to-heart, we delve into the biblical narrative of Jairus, drawing parallels between His faith-driven quest for healing and our own modern-day challenges. We explore the power of the right questions and actions in the pursuit of wellness, sharing stories that resonate with the same determination and boldness Biblical figures displayed. It's about shifting focus from the causes of sickness to the limitless possibilities of what God can do through us, and we're here to guide you through that transformative journey.
Wrapping up with Wes's profound insights, we emphasize that divine healing is a dynamic partnership, not a spectator sport. This episode is a rallying cry for all listeners to step into their authority as disciples of Jesus, to pray with conviction, and to prioritize those in need over societal expectations. We leave you with five key points to carry into your own ministry and discipleship, hopeful that our reflections will empower you to live out your faith with purpose and passion.
Hi everyone, welcome back to Coffee Pods. Really pleased to be with you for some more exciting topics and, of course, we're joined by Wes. How are you doing, wes?
Speaker 2:I'm doing fine. I can't believe it's nearly February already. Well, it is February. It's just getting ridiculous.
Speaker 1:I know Time flies and you've been a few places, haven't you? Yeah?
Speaker 2:I've been with the Healing Hub in East Stalingashire with great time with them, and then we're just starting a hub in South Lincolnshire at least as well. Some folks have come together to start a hub in the Bourne area. It's just great. So it's travelling all over the place really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's exciting and we've got to mention, yeah, some of that.
Speaker 2:Northern Ireland. It's great Nice Northern Ireland, we're coming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, super exciting. So, yeah, do stay tuned because you've got lots of visits, lots of hubs under development. But for now, let's focus on some of these big questions that we get into around Christian healing. Let's start with this one. Wes, we're going to think about what we're looking at at the Acorn Christian Healing Academy in particular. You talked about obstacles to healing, how Jesus deals with them, and you use the phrase dump the junk. So what sort of junk do we pick up?
Speaker 2:It's true we were talking about in the Academy about the times when we want to pray to people and there's something sort of in the way you know whether it's something from them or the situation, or from us. And it was just one of those things, lisa, that interested me about the way that Jesus goes about dealing with stuff, which is, it's, really interesting because some of the stuff is shaped by others. So, you know, you can have, as in many of the biblical stories, jesus will take people away or literally rope people out of the situation because something's not helpful. You know whether it's an excessive emotion, whether it's an excess of unbelief and cynicism, whether it's a sense of people who are opposed to something going on, it's just all of those things but in a sense start to put a brick wall up when there should be a doorway to go through, and so it was those sort of things that started to sort of just provoke me to think a little bit about the times that Jesus took people out of the situation or threw others out.
Speaker 2:People pick up illness as almost as a badge. You know, I mean, in fact, way, way back in the medieval times you didn't seek God for healing, because sickness was regarded as suffering and it showed how sincere and pious and devout you were if you endured it cheerfully, without complaint, and therefore, obviously, to go back and ask God to heal you was a sign of your lack of devotion and faith in God, which sounds a bit funny. Just not actually was true. Some people can have illness. I mean somebody. We're talking with, someone. They said somebody said to them but if you pray for me, I get healed. I'll lose my benefits, and you know so in a sense, though it can sound odd sometimes, you know we can wear our illnesses as a badge and it's something that we want to hang on to.
Speaker 2:Tabit culture, which is the way I've always been. You know even church cultures. You know this is the way that we, you know we do things here, and if you're sick and you don't get healed in our way, then that's your problem, and so elements like that. And of course, then there's the big one, lisa, of doctrine. You know the teaching that we grow up with. You know I've said before that I grew up in the church where I believed in God, the Father God, the Son God, the Holy Bible, but not the Holy Spirit, wasn't ever allowed to be at work. It's, in a sense, there's a sort of an obstacle there that we sort of pick up, among other things. So those sort of things.
Speaker 1:And I suppose some of them intertwine. And you know I'm thinking about habit and illness in particular. There's been many occasions I've been in different places, whether it's a doctor surgery. I mean I was recently in a doctor surgery where people just sharing and comparing their ailments and ailments like badges, like you say, and almost knowing the system, the NHS system, with such pride and I think you're right I can really see that being a part of today's culture is the illness.
Speaker 2:Yes, because my friend, somebody who had a lot of influence in our lives and helped me into the ministry, he used to say this you can either have sympathy on healing, but you can't have both, and some people want you to sort of go oh, there, there, there, there, but actually almost at times there, there, there, there doesn't really help people move towards a place of expectation. But God actually might do something to change the circumstances.
Speaker 1:Yes, very true. Yeah, and so you know. You said dump for the junk and you've highlighted being shaped by others illness, habits and culture, our doctrine and our church practice. Are you saying as well that you have to be a certain type of person to receive healing or minister healing? If we're dumping junk?
Speaker 2:I think you have to be in a perhaps a different mindset. I've sort of started this year with the thought of how can I live intentionally, how can I live authentically and how can I live anointed all the time? I know that sounds quite strange for somebody who's supposed to be an Anglican priest and supposed to have this all sussed out. But you know, it's very easy at times, nick, to just say, well, maybe I won't be as committed or I won't be as passionate about this, and everybody else seems to be okay with it, so maybe I should. And, of course, as you look through some of the biblical characters, they were just totally unreasonable in their refusal to accept that the normal was the norm. Yeah, so they lived authentically, they lived intentionally, they wanted to live in that place of the anointing, and I guess I mean here's a bit of junk.
Speaker 2:Okay, I came across a thing. I was a friend and they found that in their house they had a family heirloom. It was one of those things that had been handed down. It was like this great thing. The trouble was it was a pagan idol.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But of course nobody ever worked that out until somebody pointed it out from another culture, said do you know what that is? And of course you know. We get used to not identifying the fact that there's been repeat family sickness. You know, even through other generations, and sometimes you know it's not being spooky. But you look around and you think why? Why is this key? Why is this always like this? And then somebody points out that actually, see that thing over there, actually that's a pagan idol and actually once they removed it and destroyed it, the situation changed. Wow. So sometimes dumping your junk, dumping your junk is quite a big thing. It's not just a change of lifestyle or improve yourself. And can I put another one in?
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course you can.
Speaker 2:I know this has terrible. We're going to get people right in and say you shouldn't ever say that. But you know, I think sometimes some church cultures are helpful to us.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know the church cultures who say you should just accept this is the way it is. You should never believe that God might make a change. Yeah, and something in me reacts about that. I just think that doesn't sound like the Jesus. I come to it now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. And when you said that, that made me think also of stuff like comfort and familiarity.
Speaker 2:I mean, you mentioned habits, didn't you At the start as well, and of course people then you know we talked about wearing their sicknesses about it becomes their identity.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I understand that, particularly if it's the long term and if it's chronic. Absolutely, please hear me. I understand that. You know there's a guy called Aeneas in the Bible and you know the apostles arrive. I mean, and the incredible thing is that it doesn't. There's no element of doubt in their mind that Jesus is going to heal.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I love the fact that Aeneas is open to it. You know, and you say, well, yeah, but this is me. And actually I don't ever sit with somebody and say, oh, this is you. I don't ever sit with somebody and say, actually, this might be your circumstance now. Yeah, actually this is not you, yeah, so the journey.
Speaker 1:Brilliant Gosh. It's quite meaty, isn't it? It makes you start thinking about your own life, Also, just what we are also presented with when we're ministering to other people. Yeah, so this is super helpful. It'd be great to look at a story, if we may.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we looked at Jairus, didn't we? We?
Speaker 2:did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there were five things you presented that I just thought were super helpful. Can we unpack them a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because the thing I mean the Jairus story is interrupted by the one with the hemorrhage, and that's another thing altogether. The thing that interested me about this one is what Jesus does and then what Jairus does. He's come to Jesus. He says look, can you please come? My daughter's dying. Please come and hear that. I love the fact that it's not. If you can, or if it's possible or whatever, please come and do this. Ok, now, bear in mind he's numero uno in the Jewish synagogue, right? So he's got reputation, he's got position, he's got you know, he's got to live the thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And inviting Jesus to come to his house is a big no-no, that's a trouble, and so I love the fact that one he dumps that junk, he says I'm not, you know, and it's been true. Most of us well, all of us, as parents, we will do anything to relieve the sickness and suffering of a child.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Our own children. You'll do anything. You will climb any mountain. My daughter got married. She was getting married and she wanted to arrive. I know this sounds crazy. She wanted to arrive at the wedding in the new shape. Renan McGann.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:So you know, she's obviously a young woman. She wanted to come to Renan McGann. And could we find one? Yeah, not anywhere. So on Saturday morning early of the wedding I am driving to a car hire place because I found one to do it and the guy's going to drive. I said you've got to come with me. We left ridiculous early. We found this Renan McGann new shape I had to do it.
Speaker 2:In the way on the car as he was driving back, he said to me how much would you have paid to get that today? And I said don't ask, I would have done anything and make that. Now put that into terms of sickness you know, whatever, and parents will do anything.
Speaker 2:So you can understand why Jairus has done that. What he's done is, I think, the five things. With this one ask the right questions. Very often with healing, and you know, when other people are around they're going to give you the sort of, the right sort of answers.
Speaker 2:You know, maybe God's doing something else, maybe this is your positive and blah, blah, blah blah, which is me in the ancient Greek saying I don't agree with it. But actually I think one of the things is to ask God's questions. God doesn't mind honest questions. So to be able to say, god, is there anything that I can do, is there anything that I need to do in order to help healing flow, rather than say what have I done, to say what can I do to help healing come.
Speaker 1:Can I just turn you up? Yeah, go on. Sorry, does this link to what we were talking about before of God being an interventionist? Because what, like? How is it different me saying God? What is there anything I can do to just being like God? Please do this.
Speaker 2:Well, you see, healing isn't something that God does to you, it's something that he does with you, hmm, so one of the things that's interesting, of course, is the number of times in the Gospels when Jesus is healing people.
Speaker 2:He's doing it with them in the sense that they are part of what's going on. Yes, there are the occasional moment, the widow of name's son. He's clearly not involved in what is going on because he's dead, yeah, but actually in most of the time, you know, jesus is engaging with people because it's something that it we're part of with God. So, in a sense, the If you pray to somebody and they just a believe that God is absolutely not an interventionist and he's not ever going to do anything and probably not ever going to do anything for them, and that's way, way more difficult than somebody saying I know that God lost me and I know that the God wants good for me, so I'm reaching out for it, and so, yes, it is. If you think God's an interventionist and that he's going to intervene today, you're going to be much more open, so you're going to ask better questions.
Speaker 1:Thank you, it's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, talk about holding a treasure lightly, and and I was a bit naughty really, because I it's not actually a treasure, it's the things that we Treasure, you know. So people hold their sickness Maybe too tightly. They hold that like Jairus. He would have held on to his reputation too tightly. He could have said, jesus, could you stand outside the house and do this and not come in?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah because this might not look very good. He didn't hold any of that as a more value than Jesus Reaching his daughter. And I would say to people you know and we talked about it before, but I say things like you know don't let your church culture, Don't let your friends, don't let other people yeah, you know dictate how this goes for you that's I've.
Speaker 1:I've noticed or observed that for healing hubs that's been like a bit of a an area where life has been sort of breathed, because we are so used to doing things the way either culture or our church culture tells us to do things, and it's not to say at the hubs we're all reckless and do whatever we want, but I think there's something in in the, the praying and the ministering, in the authority that we're given, that actually goes slightly against Our culture and our church culture as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in fact you're absolutely right and we do all this fair amount in the academy for February is that? Um, we are used to the sort of the passive prayers of our Lord Jesus. You know, could you could maybe think about doing this, and this person deserves it, but actually we don't get to the place because it sounds really cocky If you say, in the name of Jesus Christ, and that's right, I give you the gift of your healing, yes, and people look at you and go who the heck do you think you are? And my answer is I'm a servant of the most high god. So I absolutely, and I I love the hubs that they are not Not going to be shaped by any one particular denominational way of doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, also just sorry, um, this isn't the main focus of of this uh podcast, but I also just love I reflected recently on um In scripture, like particularly, jesus will hear him say may it be something, something, something you know, rather than Uh, if it's your, you know, yes, we do see. If it's your will, we do see that, we do hear that, but I, I love that actually, like you're saying, we can also pray In that same place of may it be or to you know where's receive your gift of healing. I think that's just yeah. Isn't that incredible that we are part of that?
Speaker 2:Yes, and, and you and you've hit on the thing, which is we are authorized, as disciples of Jesus, to make divine pronouncements in line with the will of God on earth and for it to take place. But you know, we, if we wrap up our prayer in cross my fingers and hope to die. And you know, please let something nice happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah we.
Speaker 2:We don't stand in the authority that we'd be given.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which actually leads nicely into point number three you made, which was um to not be defined by other people's normality, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there is. There are times when you can think about, if I do it this way, some people are going to be upset. But actually in the end what's more important, the feelings of people watching, or that Jesus meets the need of the person present. So I pray for a lady who had lost her balance, and I pray just very simply and I said do you want to try it out Now? I know that other people in the context would have said no, no, no, no, no. Let us sit down.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. But I said, do you want it? Because I wanted her to know that Jesus had done something for her. Yeah, and so I just she took my arm and then we just walked up and down the aisle twice without a frame and I thought, if I'd thought about what's this going to look like, I might not have done it and she might not have received what God wanted to give her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, gosh lovely. All right. What was your next point, wes?
Speaker 2:Well, I was just thinking on that moment. When the servants arrive from Jairus's house and say don't bother, she's dead, I mean not cheerful news, but Jesus encourages him to hang on to the truth that God was at work even though it didn't look like him and the thing that has gripped me, I think God is really smart.
Speaker 2:I know this is a little bit obvious, because he's at work all the time. He doesn't just start work when we start praying. He's already at work. This is his world, and so my thing is that, even when it didn't look like it, god was already at work for Jairus and his daughter and mum at home. He was already getting this ready. It was just that everybody else couldn't see it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And Jesus says Jairus, hold on to this, just hold on to this, just believe, Come on.
Speaker 1:Is that something we could be doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so, and actually I hold on to it, not on the basis of least of wishful thinking. I don't really like this to happen. I hold it onto the basis of what is true about God and what is true about what he said.
Speaker 1:So hold on to that.
Speaker 2:And my last one was I love this, it's not over till Jesus is done, amazing. And of course they come and say, jairus, it's over, but it wasn't over until Jesus had finished. And I just love that. You know you might say, well, you know I've been prayed for by, you know. You could list all the names and I say, okay, I understand that. The thing I love about our healing Hubs, lisa, is that, in the right sense of the word, they just don't know when to quit, because they know it's not over until Jesus is done.
Speaker 1:Brilliant and I love that we can end on that positive note. So, as you go out and you, minister, and you just journey in your discipleship, remember these five points. Is it five, one, two, three? Yes, five points that Wes has shared and actually maybe even write in. Let us know how it's going for you and whether these five truths have helped you in your ministry. But we look forward to catching you at our next episode of Coffee Pods. Do head over to our website and our YouTube channel, where you can find all the latest videos and resources, and perhaps we'll see you at the Acorn Christian Healing Academy. Wes, thanks for your time and we'll see you soon.
Speaker 2:Bye-bye, thank you.