Discover the transformative power of ministering with a heart aligned to God's love as we hear from Rev Wes Sutton, who has profound insight into the practice of healing prayer. This episode takes you on a journey to learn how to value each person's inherent worth and become a vessel through which Jesus's love is magnified. Wes shares his wisdom on creating encounters with Jesus that are not only beautiful but deeply respectful of the individual journey. By adopting a stance of humility and sensitivity, we discuss how to become 'invisible' healers, directing the focus towards the Healer and allowing His grace to flow through us.
Join us as we explore the art of praying for others with the genuine love and sincerity we reserve for our closest kin. This heartfelt conversation illuminates the role of our values in treating every person with dignity and grace, guided by the Holy Spirit. Wes's anecdotes and our shared reflections serve as an invitation to foster encounters with Jesus that imprint a lasting sense of gratitude. We leave you with a challenge to embody His likeness in every interaction, reminding you to carry this wisdom beyond the podcast.
Discover the transformative power of ministering with a heart aligned to God's love as we hear from Rev Wes Sutton, who has profound insight into the practice of healing prayer. This episode takes you on a journey to learn how to value each person's inherent worth and become a vessel through which Jesus's love is magnified. Wes shares his wisdom on creating encounters with Jesus that are not only beautiful but deeply respectful of the individual journey. By adopting a stance of humility and sensitivity, we discuss how to become 'invisible' healers, directing the focus towards the Healer and allowing His grace to flow through us.
Join us as we explore the art of praying for others with the genuine love and sincerity we reserve for our closest kin. This heartfelt conversation illuminates the role of our values in treating every person with dignity and grace, guided by the Holy Spirit. Wes's anecdotes and our shared reflections serve as an invitation to foster encounters with Jesus that imprint a lasting sense of gratitude. We leave you with a challenge to embody His likeness in every interaction, reminding you to carry this wisdom beyond the podcast.
And we are recording Wes for coffee pods Yay for coffee pods wow For coffee pods. So we have been looking together at ministering to the whole person at the Christian Healing Academy at Acom, and we're talking about being made in the image of God. You are very clear with our teams, our healing hub teams, about keeping the whole person in view when praying for them. I'd love to know how do you do that?
Speaker 2:Oh great question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's one of those questions, isn't it? You can give the general how does you? Everybody do it? This is like what do I actually? Do yeah, that is just great. I, when I pray for somebody, I first start out just trying to locate God's heart and view of them. You know, because I don't want to sort of pray anything, do anything that is like. This is Wes's download on your life for the week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so actually anything I've got to say is pretty hopeless really. But if I could, so I'm aware of that. God has emotions and thoughts and feelings about these people, whether it's one or many. God thinks something about them and actually my role is to find out what that is and, if nothing else, don't mess it up, try and go in the flow of that. Secondly, I think I think one of the key things is nobody is worthless. So whoever they are, you know. You know whether they happen to be the Archbishop of Canterbury or whether they happen to be the person who cleanses toilets nobody is worthless. And actually so what? For me, I think everybody deserves the same full amount of attention and effort and prayer and focus as anybody else does. You know, and James talks about, don't show partiality to people, and actually you know you might say so, for instance, particularly children, you know, so you get somebody says will you pray for my child? And the temptation is to do a lady book of prayer.
Speaker 2:Book of prayers you know just a little oh bless, you know, move on to be patronizing, and I never did that with children. I don't use big, long language, but I don't treat them as somebody who is insignificant, nor the elderly.
Speaker 2:You know, you know, I don't treat them as as if they're, you know, past their best, and you know an inconvenience, and so, actually, I think nobody's an inconvenience and nobody is without value Everybody has. So those two things come together for me. God, what are you doing, what are you saying, what are you thinking? And these people are precious. I think, then, I've had to learn to ensure that, even in the midst of everything else going on, that I keep my focus on the person. So, that's why I will pray with my eyes open.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I find, though, it can be distracting. Other things could go on and it is a discipline, and I know that some people may be listening to you, to the podcast here. Lisa will say but I get distracted, and I said I understand that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, but actually you drive a car and you keep your eyes open. And you don't get distracted.
Speaker 1:No, you don't, otherwise you have an accident, so you can already do it.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we close our eyes because we want to avoid embarrassment or the cringy nature of what we're doing. And I would just say to people just get over that. You drive a car, you can do something with your eyes open.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I would say I understand that I'm not going to be frustrated, but I guess my, I guess my favorite thing is not taking over somebody's life but accompanying them. I think that's the thing we accompany them on a journey towards Jesus in these moments. So it isn't like that I rush ahead, standing in front of Jesus and say Jesus, I brought Fred here and you're just gonna ask you to fix him. Actually, I am just a little bit behind, a little bit on the side, with Fred and we come to Jesus together, and if Fred doesn't know what to say, I say Jesus, could you help?
Speaker 1:Does it mean Does that make sense? It does, and it's a wonderful image to help understand it actually For many reasons that we are there to accompany and that God will draw us into that moment as well. I don't know whether this will come out correctly, but I think also, god is using us for a reason because God can. Obviously he can get on with it without us, can't he? He can speak to that person who's there, but he's doing something with us as well. So I really do hear what you're saying about accompanying them on their journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that Cause I actually. Yes, in any premise, god is dealing with us as well as the person. But I don't so much like the meetings where you stand up at the front and people come up in a long line and you're the only person who can pray for them. I'm not sure that's the right message to give, because it just says to the rest of the church who are watching only special people can do this. And actually it says to the people in the queue you're just another one.
Speaker 1:You're just a number.
Speaker 2:Whereas actually I was in the church, I'd spoken and the leaders, we could have a prayer line and actually we had so many people come forward there were three prayer lines so I had to say, okay, just the prayer teams just gonna go out so they all start the front. I say, actually, can half the prayer teams go to the back and work the other way in? And then we found prayer was taking place among the people who were there in the middle of the line, among themselves, and actually I think one of the key things for me is I have phrases we are accompanying people into the presence of Jesus and we are not the main thing.
Speaker 1:He is yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my prayer is Lord, can you teach me to be invisible?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that actually people end up seeing Jesus, they don't end up seeing Wes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and on that then, because Jesus, he would come alongside people in a similar way to what you've mentioned spent the time, the focus, the respect for these people. He would do that. It was, he didn't. He was very intimate, wasn't he, in his ministry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very personal yeah.
Speaker 1:Personal. Yeah, I might sound like an absolute heretic saying this Ha ha ha, ha ha ha, welcome, yes, ha ha ha. Is there something in? Okay, so when we pray, we are accompanying, we are ministering, we are expressing the kingdom of God? Yes, aren't we as people? Yeah, do you think there is something in our physical, like our being, expression of the kingdom of God in that moment, like I'm not saying that we are Jesus, but we are being like Jesus.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, physically. Oh yeah, because in a sense you know you, lisa, you carry the presence of Jesus with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Doesn't just happen in meetings, it happens always with you, okay. So actually, when you stand next to somebody, they are standing next to somebody who's carrying the presence of Jesus with them. This is what we teach the teams, which is where our authority comes from when we pray. So, for instance, if you were carrying a radioactive bar of plutonium in your handbag in the queue at Sainsbury's, everybody would be impacted by it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, negatively. But they would yeah, okay, all right. If you were a radio transmitter, everybody who had put an aerial up would receive the signal. So you carry the presence of Jesus with you. So when you stand next to somebody, if their spirit is open, they are going to know that something's close to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think one of the key elements within that is I think we do. We do carry Christ in us around with us.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 2:Smith Wigglesworth. It was said that he got in a train carriage. Just reading a book about Smith Wigglesworth, he got into a train carriage and three men who were in the carriage as soon as Smith Wigglesworth sat down, they turned to him and said you know? So we don't know who you are, but we feel so convicted of our sin, oh wow. And he didn't say anything. He just got in the railway carriage.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know. So there are countless stories of people feeling the presence of Jesus without you know, and actually part of our role is to do that, is to carry the presence of Jesus to people so that when you say I pray for you, they go, yeah, because they've, they're sent to see something.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Peter's shadow Peter's shadow fell on people, yeah, and they sent a handkerchiefs. They sent handkerchiefs out and Acorn's done that as well. And you think okay, maybe there's more to this than we just thought, because the problem is we also get wordy. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:We just deal with words, we do, we do.
Speaker 2:And the presence may be as strong. Yeah, yeah, so actually.
Speaker 1:I'd like more presence. Hmm, wonderful, all right. So there are some stories, though, aren't there, of people having bad experiences. Oh yeah, the hands of others in some ministry settings, and we've talked about some of them. When we're looking at the heroes of faith, and we've looked at different healers rather than disciples, I would say but why do things go wrong, whereas you must have seen some experiences?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've probably done some of them as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Can I just say that one of the things I learned looking at all those people is that nobody starts out planning to go wrong?
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, and and life happens, we can be deceived and tricked and we can believe our own press and stuff, which is why I'm glad you know I'm in the ministry, I am in the family, I am because they sort of keep your feet nailed to the floor and that's really important. I think things go wrong because people try too hard. I think they go to they go wrong because they think that they are indispensable, that actually God can only do it through them. I think things go wrong because people start to believe that their way is the only way that it can work.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so I talked to the Academy today just this last month and just said that one of the things is that we might have a default way that we would do things. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's always the right way, so we need to be open. I also think things go wrong because, unfortunately, people do fall in ministry and there isn't integrity that necessarily honest.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And perhaps because we hide our weaknesses and dress them up with something else. But I do think, yeah, okay, I'll be honest. There are some times when people just want to power through.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I'm sure there are, and as humans we are all you know, we're all capable of fault, and I think it's like we are likely to be tempted. You know, like the enemy is going to try and tempt our weaknesses and our blind spots, wow. So I suppose you need to be aware.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think the thing I love about acorn is that we have a fairly flat Team, fully level team. You know, nobody is, like you know, healer, super level. Yeah we're all just equal. We operate a thing with praying as a number one and number two to pray, and actually I've been number two for somebody else, I've been somebody else's assistant as well as having other people be my assistant, and so we don't have superstars in a cause ministry.
Speaker 2:No there is only one star and he's super, but apart from that, everything else is. You know, we're all same. In fact, I was talking to one of my friends who's talking about, and I said to them the book I want to write is the book that's entitled. We're all plonkers for Jesus because we can. You know, we're all just putting our trousers on one leg at a time. And so I think, when you start to think how could I be wrong and I'm better than anybody else?
Speaker 2:I think that's when you start being insensitive to the needs of those who are before.
Speaker 1:That's really helpful. And so what else do you think is the answer or what is helpful in terms of, you know, keeping people safe and having good experiences?
Speaker 2:I do think the part of the thing is is to know why you're doing this and know what your values are.
Speaker 2:I think lots of things that go wrong, but also because teams lose their sense of value, their values. But within that, I think if you take all of the things he said, if you understand that Jesus is the main thing, that people are made in the image of God, and you can get it wrong. I think that caution just helps you to tread sensitively with people and just to just remember people are precious to God and so you know, I do. I do think that if we can keep those things in mind, we're going to it's more likely that we're going to treat people with dignity and love and grace and we're going to be helpful to them and also the Holy Spirit is going to be able to get through to us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it makes me think of when you said don't pray for anyone when you're like annoyed with them or you've got people. That is going to be a difficult situation, isn't it Never going to be?
Speaker 2:good if you're angry. Don't prophesy or pray for somebody that you're angry with.
Speaker 1:Okay, so then, taking that the other way, then, how do you think that we can create those beautiful encounters with Jesus when we're praying for others, especially, though, when the needs are great, because, man, we have some great needs that we're aware of, don't we?
Speaker 2:I like that. I you know. I love the idea that we could live beautifully for Jesus that we could minister beautifully for Jesus. I think, for our teams and for me to remember that this is not a job lot, this is not another thing. I always remember that, even in a meeting when you might have prayed for 20 people, the 21st person it's their first time. Yes, it's their only time.
Speaker 2:And the other 20 people aren't part of the conversation. So I think we can live beautifully and minister beautifully by keeping in mind that God is really passionate about people and he really wants to do them good, and our role is to let them leave the building with their hearts singing about Jesus and being grateful and rejoicing, to do everything in such a way that we've, at worst, not messed it up and at best, we've added to it. But I think if people have encountered the authentic presence of Jesus, even though we might have said nothing, if we've stood with them, I remember being in Hong Kong with Jackie Pung's team and watching two people pray for somebody else, and they said nothing, but for 15 minutes they just stood with somebody else and just quietly. I mean, they were praying in tongues, but it could have been in Cantonese, you know, as far as I would have known but they just quietly, just prayed just next to them, didn't interrupt, didn't intrude, and the Lord gave that the person absolutely all they needed.
Speaker 2:But you know, you came away thinking that was just beautiful. Yes, it wasn't. Hey, I'm here, look at me, I am the prayer warrior. I'm going to break the power of this over you and whatever, and you're going to be eternally grateful. It was like Jesus, we'd love you to be here right now and we won't get in the way.
Speaker 2:I love that. You know, so my friend said to his church once. He said let's not do evangelism anymore because, let's be honest, we don't like doing it and people don't like having it done to them. But instead, when we're with people, let's try and be a little bit more like Jesus. And I think if we could, just in our prime ministry I mean you brought out something you know, what would Jesus do right now? Yeah, I think that's beautiful.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. Thank you. It gives us a lot to think about and it does make you think about the way that we do, minister, and also that it can us as people. Our moods and our feelings and everything change day by day as ministers, and so holding on to these questions like how can we create beautiful encounters are just so important to be thinking about as disciples. So yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the one thing I leave our teams with. In training, I said you should pray for somebody in such a way that you would want your best friend to be prayed for by somebody else.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I think how I want somebody to pray for my grandchildren or my kids. Well, I want it to look like this. So in that case, I do like this.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. Thank you, as it's been, as always, and for those of you listening, thank you so much. Do check out our website for all the different events and resources that are coming up, and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and then you know when new ones are being released. But we will catch you next month. Bye, bye.