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A series exploring Christian healing in a handy coffee-break sized podcast. Plug yourself in, pick up your mug of coffee, and let's go.
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The Healing Power of Peace in a Divided World
Peace resonates at the heart of our most significant global moments. As church bells rang across Britain commemorating VE Day, the smoke rose from the Vatican chimney announcing a new Pope whose first words echoed Christ: "Peace, I bring you".
The convergence of these events creates a powerful backdrop for our conversation with Reverend Khris Kramer, ACORN's new Director of Ministry. Khris brings historical perspective to VE Day, reminding us that these celebrations aren't about glorifying military might, but rejoicing in the moment when fighting stopped. The pageantry, vintage aircraft, and ceremonial events serve to honour those who sacrificed while reinforcing our collective commitment to preventing future conflicts.
Meanwhile, the election of Pope Leo—Chicago-born but a Peruvian citizen—represents both continuity and hope. Coming from the tradition of liberation theology in South America, his ministry has focused on serving the poor and marginalized. Though maintaining Roman Catholicism's traditional theological positions, his compassionate approach suggests a pontiff who may speak boldly against tyranny and oppression.
The ACORN ministry embodies this approach, focusing on bringing Christ's healing love to all people regardless of background. We're "watering the fields" rather than building kingdoms, rising above denominational differences to make each corner of the world more peaceful through prayer and compassionate action.
Join us for this thought-provoking conversation, and connect with Khris as he begins his ministry with ACORN. He's available to visit churches, offer training, or simply share tea and biscuits with your community! Contact us through our website to learn more.
fantastic, hi everyone, and a big welcome to our new director of ministry, uh, reverend chris kramer.
Speaker 1:We should have the party yeah, exactly um, we're so thrilled to have you with us, chris. Um, and in case, somewhere along the line, those of you you who have been part of ACORN have missed that, we have recently appointed Chris. Chris is our director of ministry. You'll see him at some of our events, offering some training and some ministry, plus much more. So do keep following our podcast so that you can find out what Chris and what Acorn are up to.
Speaker 2:And I've never actually turned down an invitation to have tea and biscuits, it's true. No, I think that eating chocolate is sort of part of the call to ministry. Really, I'm quite the connoisseur.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. Yes, and so if you want to invite Chris for tea and biscuits and chocolate, um, even to come and speak at your church, you're so welcome to reach out to us. Um, it's been a big weekend historically, hasn't it, chris? With the.
Speaker 2:V.
Speaker 1:It's amazing yeah, um, you are a bit of a history buff.
Speaker 2:I'm just fascinated with the world and I know it started when I was in secondary school. Everybody had like one elective class at the end of their. When you're about 16, 17 in America you have high school over here would be sort of A levels, and imagine if they give you a free elective where you can choose to study anything you want. And I actually decided to go to Ms Frances Ramsey's world history class as my elective, which for a lot of people was like a real high level difficult class and usually you take an easy class like woodworking or physical education or something.
Speaker 2:But I was fascinated with the interplay between history and religion, because you can't study world history without world religions and to learn about how the world is the way it is and how religion has influenced the way the world is. So Miss Ramsey was probably one of my favorite teachers because she really helped me to understand things like the Holy Roman Empire and Charlemagne and Alexander the Great. So this weekend has been really amazing because you have not only do you have the remembrances around VE Day, but you also have the selection of a brand new pope in Rome. So it's there's all sorts of things going on in the world.
Speaker 1:They really are, and I think what's been so wonderful is it has been world events. It hasn't been just. I mean, I love localized things, but the fact that the world has been gathering around these moments has felt really special and something maybe we've also needed. And I wonder for you and maybe for your family, what this weekend brought for you. Did you do anything any set?
Speaker 2:of yeah, we, we did. I mean, I, I really love the um, the pageantry and watching the services, the parades, the walking and marching by the cenotaph and the real need to remember the importance of peace. I think too often we forget that VE Day is not kind of nationalism where we celebrate the military and we celebrate marching and going to war. We actually remember how glorious it was when the fighting stopped. And, you know, I think it's wonderful to see all the people gathered and to remember the speeches that were given by Churchill and to hear the king's speech again and to imagine the princesses running around in the crowds of people, you know, incognito, I mean I think I just imagine queen elizabeth dancing in the crowds on ve day. It's just such a glorious thing to think about.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, you know, I'm a big plane lover who can't just be excited about all the vintage aircraft that flew over the Mall and over Buckingham Palace, and I just think the whole atmosphere was reverent but also a celebration. And it was a celebration of peace, lasting peace. And it comes at a time when there is war. I mean, india and Pakistan are in conflict, israel and Palestine are in conflict, ukraine and Russia. There's just so much pain and conflict, country for VE Day and proclaimed peace, and that peace is important enough for all of us to be committed to making peace a focus of what we do on a daily basis. So I just thought it was great. And, of course, the bands and the flowers and the colors and the pageantry. It only helps.
Speaker 2:It does yeah and seeing the Ukrainian soldiers marching was quite poignant, I thought, sort of touching in a way to see, knowing that their country is at war. Painful in a way to think that here they are to try and bring attention to the fact that, although we pray for peace over tyranny, they're still living in a situation where their country has occupation.
Speaker 1:So certainly a need to continue to pray for more peace yeah, absolutely, and I think I mean the village we live in. There were the flat, you know, british flags everywhere, but it was really lovely because the ukrain Ukrainian flag was still up in people's houses and front yards as well, which is really special, yeah.
Speaker 2:I asked my mother about VE Day and it's sad in a way that for some parts of the world I think VE Day has been lost. This idea of celebrating victory in Europe in places outside of Europe is almost like overshadowed by Mother's Day. But you have other secular holidays and other events the NBA playoffs in America and baseball games and things and you think what is more fitting to stop and be mindful of than VE Day, you know, this weekend, and so it's kind of funny that at the same time we were remembering victory in Europe, you also have the conclave after the funeral of Pope Francis, who I really thought was an amazing pope. You have the conclave where they're getting ready to elect a new pope and of course he is elected, and the smoke is going up out of the chimney at the same time that the bells in England were ringing. On Monday I thought that I was on my back porch and we live right next to the church and my wife's church, st Matthew's they joined in with all the churches up and down the English countryside all around Britain ringing bells to announce peace, and they all did at the same time.
Speaker 2:Well, it's kind of funny that that happened shortly after a new pope was elected. So it was almost like we were, yes, we're celebrating peace, but we also were, in a strange sort of way, cheering for the arrival of a new pope whose first words to the people were peace, peace, I bring you peace. And and where did that come from? From the prince of peace himself. You know, jesus um is the one who brings peace. Peace in our hearts, peace to the world. Um, he is the the great peacemaker, and I think the more we get rooted in the gospel of jesus christ, the farther away we go from conflict.
Speaker 1:I agree it changes our perspective and our hearts. Do you think that there will be a oh? What's the right word? I'm just thinking with an American Pope. Was he born in Chicago or grew up in Chicago?
Speaker 2:Born in Chicago, which funnily in America a lot of people joke about what sports team. It's kind of like here if you're an Arsenal or a Chelsea fan you know, growing up in Chicago. The question is, is he a White Sox fan or a Chicago Cubs baseball fan? Chicago Bears were the great football team of the 80s and there was a joke that everybody called them da Bears.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, I've heard that, and so he's da Pope and his poor brother, who is still in Chicago. I think he just got flown to the Vatican yesterday. The media has just been inundating this poor man because he's the brother of the.
Speaker 1:Pope.
Speaker 2:He's Bob's brother and they even had him on camera in the American media world, on camera listening to his brother give the first speech from the balcony. And it was this strange thing of trying to humanize the Pope, because usually he doesn't speak English as a true, you know, born American. But the interesting thing about Pope Leo is that he spent most of the last big chunk of his life in South America, so he's a Peruvian citizen.
Speaker 2:He actually became a citizen of Peru as well as a citizen of the US, and so the people in Peru kind of own him as well, and they I don't know if you've seen any pictures from South America, but they take great pride that that they have a Peruvian bishop as the pope so just as the Americans are going wild about having an American pope, they say as a Peruvian pope, and I think he comes from the school of, if you're into, in the 90s there was something called liberation theology that became really popular and it had to do with the writings of a fellow named Gustavo Gutierrez and Gerd Thiessen, and they basically were talking about how the gospel is centered in the lives and realities of the poor.
Speaker 2:And so the experiences of the poor in Central America and South America were very much the locus point of where you experience Jesus. And so Oscar Romero was a famous bishop, archbishop, who was murdered, and he was murdered because he was kind of organizing the people against and the government didn't like that because they felt like he was being subversive and he was threatened and then he finally was assassinatedinated. And many, many bishops in the church in South America come out of that school of organizing people and then they get labeled as socialists or you know that they're anti capitalist kind of people, but really they're just really helping poor people who want to eat.
Speaker 2:And they're doing things that seem like they undermine businesses, but what they're doing is caring for children and they're caring for mothers and they're living like Jesus would live. And that looks radical. And you think about in today's world, a person who walks down the street in a pair of sandals, who is giving things away, seems out of their mind. And yet I wonder how you know if we really are following Jesus. Isn't that a call to radical discipleship? And so he's going to bring some continuation of Pope Francis's ideology into the Vatican. I think he continues some of Francis's theological ideas about welcoming to everybody. And he's Roman Catholic. He's not going to be a liberal, which I found it quite funny that everybody's so desperate to be able to call him a liberal but he's not a true liberal because Roman Catholicism has a conservative heart, and so they have certain dogmatic kind of principle teachings which they adhere to, and those, by definition, are quite conservative but, is he socially liberal?
Speaker 2:Absolutely? I think he's in my book. I would say he's kind of right on, he's connected and he's got a real compassionate heart. And that's the part that you really want to be intact when you talk about churches and hierarchies and things, because when it comes to politics he's the kind of Pope that's going to speak out to, to governmental leaders who behave like tyrants.
Speaker 2:So if he sees a person who's in charge of a nation who's just suddenly acting like a dictator and autocrat or taking advantage of people, I think he's the kind of. He's the kind of person who will be courageous and say stop, that that's not Christian. And he may not be able to change it, but he can certainly speak to a billion people on the planet and say this is not Christian what this person is doing. It takes you back to the 30s and you imagine if the Catholic Church had spoken plainly and clearly against the homicide of World War and the rounding up of Jewish people, if the church and all of its leaders came together and made pronouncements officially, what kind of pressure would that put on political institutions? And so many people have argued that the church often doesn't have the courage to speak into those difficult places.
Speaker 2:But I'm thinking maybe nowadays there are more people willing to raise cane. I mean, now we've got these little phones, you know, I don't know if you can see my phone, but it's like we now have the camera which is capturing things. So suddenly people are much more courageous because they say you can't lie because I have a video of what's happening. Lie because I have a video of what's happening. And so wrongful deportations and people being arrested and charged without evidence and people dealing with corruption. But here's our world. You know, this is where we are, and the fight still goes on for justice and for peace and love and harmony. And I did like the king's speech I don't know if you listened to king charles's speech actually I didn't listen to it.
Speaker 2:No, what it was really good and it was. I mean, it's a, it's a. It's a straight ball to the middle of the wicket. Really, really. He's not being controversial on purpose, he's basically preaching to the choir, but I think that's the message that the country and the world needs to hear that love is at the heart of all that we do and all that we are, that our culture must be a culture that embraces diversity and that we don't stand on other people's heads to achieve greater heights and things of that sort. But I mean it was simple and yet it was quite lovely. It's kind of like a I can imagine maybe a dessert dish that your brother might make at one of his events. It's probably very simple but very delicate and just right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think when I heard the king's speech I was just like it's simple, it's delicate, it's just what the nation needed to hear. And I was really quite pleased because I thought I used to love hearing his mother. She had such a heart for God and listening to her. And then I go back to the year I guess it was 2000 when they celebrated VE Day in Hyde Park and I don't know if you remember all those years ago the Queen Mother was on the stage and I was in Hyde Park in this massive crowd of several hundred thousand people with leaders from around the world, and the Queen Mother actually came up to the microphone and you could tell everybody was scared to death because they didn't know what she was going to say. And she got up and gave an impromptu speech about how my house was hit by bombs and I was sitting there going, oh, that's Buckingham Palace, and it all sort of came together that for her living through the Blitz. And she said we had the opportunity to leave the city, but we would never abandon London and I'm sitting there listening to this the city, but we would never abandon London. And I'm sitting there listening to this. And then she looks over to her old friend, vera Lynn, who was on the stage, and they began singing and the whole crowd sang We'll Meet Again. And it was tears everywhere and the joy. I was looking at their Queen Elizabeth is almost looking teary eyed that her sweet mother wearing like sherbet, ice cream colored dress and a big hat. You know, this tiny little person comes up and addresses this massive crowd and just absolutely blew us away. It was just perfect and I thought, gosh, how could that be 25 years ago that she did that?
Speaker 2:And that generation. We've lost so many of them. It's sort of heartbreaking to think that there's. You know, when I started ministry at the end of the 90s, so many people would. You'd have a cup of coffee and they'd give you their firsthand account of living and fighting in the war. And you really have to look far and wide to find anybody that has a firsthand account of war, because most of that generation are gone. Yes, so only their stories live on and I think God help us if we forget the truth of what they fought against, because then you'll be destined to meet it again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, when we live, we live in a village called Aldbourne. Where we live, we live in a village called Aldbourne and that's where the Band of Brothers were stationed, over from the States, over here and in the little village next to our, Shilton Foliat, and so if you watch Band of Brothers you'll see all the names and things like that. It's really interesting. But obviously there's a lot of pride in that here in the village.
Speaker 1:And so this weekend I think it was from Thursday all the way through to Tuesday there was reenactments, there was storytelling, they had all the vehicles, everything but what you were just saying that to find a first-hand story is particularly difficult. And I remember my husband and Dan and I were driving through the village and we saw all of this going on and it was amazing and I asked Dan but do you think any of these people were actually in in the war? It is stories passed down and I just found that really, really interesting. But I love the hope that you've shared of it's not just about victory and war and winning, it's about peace. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a better world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a really brilliant message and hope to hold on to.
Speaker 2:And how exciting that within our nation, the Church of England is in the process of of looking for a new Archbishop of Canterbury.
Speaker 2:We don't have conclaves in the Church of England, but we do have a process that they're following, and I find it really exciting right now to have a new pope, a new Archbishop of Canterbury coming, a new chance for there to be renewed peace on the planet.
Speaker 2:Even saying that, though, I realize that there are some really dicey places in the world right now where people are hurting and getting bombed, and so I pray that the new Archbishop of Canterbury and the new Pope can form some kind of an alliance with the Eastern churches, with the leaders of the Protestant churches around the world, and really advocate for a transformation.
Speaker 2:You know, a third great awakening, if you want to call it that, where people say let's get back to living for Jesus. Want to call it that where people say let's get back to living for Jesus, the one who heals the brokenness of the world and get away from all the things that divide us. Yeah, we can talk about things that we disagree on, and whether you like gay weddings and whether you like sacramental purity and the real presence in the bread, and put all that to the side and get back to living for Jesus, the one who heals the emancipator. Because surely, if the global church, everybody who calls themselves Christians got back to living for this transformational Christian Christ presence. Wouldn't that change everything? I mean surely how could you continue to bomb your neighbor and hate your neighbor and actively work to kill other people if you're living for Jesus?
Speaker 1:It doesn't add up, does it? No, no, you're living for Jesus. It doesn't add up, does?
Speaker 2:it. No, no, and I'm not so naive as to think that there aren't huge, huge foreign policy issues related to taking over territory and invading and that it's not so simple. But I certainly think that the place of the church in relation to political conflict is to be the light, the light on the hill. We have the ability to speak peace and love and hope into all the darkness of the world, whatever causes it. And the problem I find is that it seems like church leadership loves to get in bed with one side or the other. Yeah, whose side can we be on?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Where is it most advantageous for us to ally ourselves. And you know, jesus lived in a totally different way, where he was like I'm not going to be on anybody's side, I'm on the side of justice, of right, and that's where we should be. And what is it? We know God not by the light he casts, but by the reflection of his light that we see in others. You know, when I see a child in Gaza who's hungry, you know I see Christ in that child and that child needs food, and I don't need to think about politics before I think about feeding the child.
Speaker 2:And so many people are making these crazy decisions which justify in their minds some behavior that hurts other people, and I just think, come on, that's just totally not Christianity, it's not. It's some weird bastardization of the Christian religion to suit your needs. And I just you know. I think the thing about ACORN that I really am excited about is that the whole purpose of the organization is to get people praying for other people and to live into the reality of Christ healing love. We're not in the business of proselytizing. We're not in the business of trying to grow some kingdom. We are in the business of bringing people to the kingdom of God, how they find their own faith rooted in local churches and all that. That's a secondary thing. Our focus is on watering the fields, you know, so we can celebrate all the things that happen that are good, without getting tied up into the dogma and the churchmanship and the little things that divide us, flying above.
Speaker 1:Flying above. Yeah, I like that a lot actually. Yeah, I like, I like that a lot actually, um, and I just wondered because it's we've got a lot of listeners who are part of healing ministries, whether it's um acorn, whether it's in their church. They do it themselves out in their local community, um, and it's really nice to offer a prayer for them.
Speaker 2:So I wondered if we, if you would be happy, chris, on your first us and to just close in a prayer for those who are joining us sure thank you lord, we thank you for um, for the reality of your presence, and we live in hopefulness and confidence, knowing that you love us and you meet us and that you reach out to us. And we pray, lord, that we might have the courage and the faith to reach back and that we might find a way to make our little corner of the world better, find a way to make our little corner of the world better, more loving, and that, lord, you might give us an opportunity to celebrate with our neighbors when something good happens to them and to help us share in all the little victories, lord, that we might find a way to share in the victory that is following you. And so bless us this day and bless us always as we seek to be peacemakers and to preach peace into the world in which you've planted us. We pray this in Jesus' mighty name Amen.
Speaker 1:Amen, great Thank you. So we're going to have more of these conversations, aren't we, chris? Weeks and months. If you've got a topic you'd like us to chat through and bring some insight, uh, into as well, send it over to us. There's a contact form on our website.
Speaker 2:we'd love to talk through some of the things that you might be experiencing in your own discipleship and healing ministries, and I'd like to come see you, so if you want to write to us, if you'd like me to come and talk in an evening, or if you'd like me to come and preach or even celebrate communion in your Anglican church, or just to play my guitar in the corner of your worship band. I would love to come and see you wherever you are in the United Kingdom. If you're not in the United Kingdom, I might have to figure out how to get to you. But saying that I am actually going to be in North America the 2nd of June through the 14th of June, and so we'll do something a couple of creative things when I'm in the US and we'll let you know about that.
Speaker 2:But exciting opportunities ahead for ACORN and I am so blessed I can't stop this without saying how blessed I am to have Lisa showing me the ropes, because what would this organization do without Lisa at the helm? It's so good. And we didn't mention your dog, oh yes, the helm, it's so good. And and we didn't mention your dog, oh yes, uh, yeah, we've gone through this whole thing today without mentioning your amazing.
Speaker 1:I know he was going to come on a meeting earlier and then he's been somewhere else in the house and then, yeah, so we, dan and I, got a rescue dog called boise um, and he's absolutely is amazing. He's so sweet. He's a four-year-old jack russell cross um, and he has just been a real god. He has slotted into the family, so voice the wonder dog yes right, he's the official dog of acorn.
Speaker 2:Yeah he'll be making some visits to hubs, so yeah, that's great that's great come to one of our sip and pray gatherings and maybe you'll get to see boys you might get to meet. But you might meet one of my dogs too. But they're old and I think they're both sleeping over here on the couch next to me.
Speaker 1:I'm surprised they didn't yap and bark today they're two senior citizens who moved from america back over here. So good on them. I'm surprised they didn't yap and bark today.
Speaker 2:They've been on bad behavior. They're two senior citizens who moved from America back over here.
Speaker 1:Oh, good on them.
Speaker 2:It's been great chatting and I'm excited to see some more of the countryside in the days ahead.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. We'll say goodbye for now on the old recording and we'll catch up with you guys on a new event or podcast. Whatever comes next, do check our website and thank you for supporting us. Bye-bye.
