CoffeePods
A series exploring Christian healing in a handy coffee-break sized podcast. Plug yourself in, pick up your mug of coffee, and let's go.
CoffeePods
Where Faith Meets History: Tracing Christianity Through Monuments
It's time for another episode of Coffee Pods with Acorn Christian Healing Foundation and your host, lisa Way.
Speaker 2:And the Reverend Chris Kramer.
Speaker 1:Grab a brew and make yourself comfortable as we explore what's happening in the world from the perspective of christian healing yesterday was a big day in rome, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:um? You were talking to me recently about um a very interesting object in saint peter's square, um, and it was. Was it the first papal mass?
Speaker 1:um, and it was. Was it the first papal mass, first papal mass for the new pope? Yeah, they go through layers, I guess, after the election. I'm not roman catholic but, uh, my dad was and uh, so I'm a a bit of a I'm curious, I, I I'm a curious observer and of culture and and church history. And, yeah, they, I think they sort of clothe him.
Speaker 1:He gets his ring, the fancy ring, because when the Pope dies, I think they destroy the ring. Yeah, it gets permanently destroyed, and so there's all sorts of ceremonial stuff that goes on, which is kind of cool. But the thing that got me was there's this massive obelisk which, if you're in America you know, the Washington Monument's a big giant obelisk in the middle of Washington DC. So in the middle of Vatican City there is this giant obelisk, big pointy stone column that sits in the middle. And now, for the life of me I've been like why is this thing sitting in front of the church? Surely it's just sort of this random object. It does have a cross on the top of it, but it's really, really old.
Speaker 1:And so, being the nerd that I am, I couldn't just watch the festivities without doing a little bit of a deep dive and I thought this is. It's actually really cool because the obelisk came from Egypt, I think it was. Yeah, it comes from Heliopolis, I think, and it was the obelisk of Tutmos III and it was brought by the Roman emperor from the pharaoh. So the pharaoh, tutmos Augustus, evidently transported this massive obelisk to.
Speaker 1:Rome and it sat in the middle of the Circus Maximus Brilliant. So the really cool thing about the Circus Maximus. I guess people will remember Charlton Heston in Ben-Hur.
Speaker 2:Oh yes.
Speaker 1:Ben-Hur 1959 classic. I think it won 11 Academy Awards, including Best Picture and Best Actor. Wow, and the chariot racing scene is the craziest thing. But that's the Circus Maximus and that obelisk was in the middle of the Circus Maximus. And I found it really kind of curious, as I was doing the deep dive, that after the fire of 64 AD that Nero you know Nero actually blamed Christians for the fire in Rome. So the emperor Nero basically decided to take St Peter this is the same St Peter that denied Jesus the cock road. He's in Rome telling everybody about the story of Christianity. So the story goes Nero erected a structure at the base of that obelisk in the Circus Maximus and crucified Peter upside down.
Speaker 1:So you'll often see insignia about Peter with an upside down cross. It's not demonic worship. It's to remember that Peter was crucified upside down to try and rid the empire of these Christians. So this happened in the middle of the Circus Maximus, in front of 30,000 people at the base of that obelisk. Well, fast forward, the Roman Empire becomes Christian and I guess it was Constantine who decided to build a church on the site of St Peter's grave, which is called the Necropolis, and so they built a church at the place where Peter was buried and they moved from the Circus Maximus, they moved that obelisk out in front of that church, so it was sort of a symbol of the place where Peter died.
Speaker 1:Now I never really realized this. When I was watching all the festivities and the Popemobile and all these other things, I found myself kind of taken to, you know, to this place. Now it's worth noting that, as I was doing my deep dive, that when they built what is St Peter's now, they actually had to move this obelisk, which is really big and heavy. They moved it 300 meters, I think, south. It took 37 days and like 800 people and a bunch of ropes.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, I really got nerdy on this to find this out. But they moved it so that it sits in the position that it is today and then they decided to put a cross on top of it. Originally it didn't have a cross. They put a cross on top and so the story goes. There is a fragment of the original cross of Jesus in the cross, which is on top of that obelisk today. So it's kind of cool. So I'll never look at the. When I see the big, giant pictures of Vatican City and I look at the architecture and all the history of the artists and the different people that have made it pretty, part of me is taken to the heart of the whole place of vatican city and this crazy egyptian stone that sits there as a testimony to one of the great martyrs of the church, saint peter himself. So it's kind of cool. I, I, um, I'm. I guess I get nerdy about stuff like that because I just find it fascinating.
Speaker 2:But it is fascinating and I mean I went to the Vatican, oh gosh, more than probably 12 years ago, so quite a while ago, and in my head I'm thinking I find it so sad because I didn't even notice, notice it, let alone know anything. Now, like you've been sharing of it, and it makes me think I want to go back and see it in what I now know of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, another little tidbit, since we're doing trivia and uh, because I love this kind of stuff, it it makes my faith come alive, because when I when I see an object, when I've been in the Middle East and been to Capernaum or something, and I see an object, when I've been in the Middle East and been to Capernaum or something, and I see something along the Sea of Galilee, and then someone tells me you know, this is where Jesus fed the 5,000, and you stand there and you're like you pick up shells in your hand and you think, right, here this is. And you look and see Sistine Chapel ceiling. I was seeing a thing on Michelangelo the other day and I've always enjoyed the creation at the middle of the Sistine Chapel you have the God reaching out to Adam. You know you have the two fingers coming together. If you really look closely at that picture, the artist did something quite clever, because the finger of God is fully extended, it's completely straight, but the finger of Adam is slightly bent, which would imply and I guess this is what the artist is trying to do is trying to say well, humanity, oh, there you go, humanity has to reach to God, that God is fully outstretched to us and is awaiting. You see this strong hand of God and this almost limp wrist, this hand of Adam, and it's just like look, dude, all you got to do is reach out and the power is just right there, and that's in the center of the Sistine Chapel ceiling, which would have been right above all these cardinals and all the people that were deciding who's going to lead the Roman Catholic Church.
Speaker 1:Again, the Christian religion has been about God reaching to humans and humans reaching back since the beginning. So, no matter your denominational preference, the story is still the same. It's about call and response, and if you go to St Paul's Cathedral here in London, where I live just south of the city, you can go and see the famous painting of Jesus knocking on the door, which is most interesting because the artist did not put a doorknob on the outside of the door. Lo, I stand at the door and knock. It's a wonderful old image. The original is at Keeble College in Oxford, but the doorknob is on the inside, and so the artist is making another statement about how God is always coming to us and reaching out to us, and the question is kind of, what does our response to God look like? For a CMS missionary. It looked like going and getting typhoid in South India. What is our response to God?
Speaker 1:And every day. We should wake up in the morning and say what am I going to do for God today? How am I going to stretch out my hand and grasp onto the hand of God who's reaching to me? And so when I see the Pope riding around in the Popemobile and so I actually enjoyed watching him hug his brother more than anything else because it sort of made him human to me, and I saw a guy whose big brother is very proud of him.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And they go. Oh, the Pope has broken all protocol and hugged his brother.
Speaker 2:Of course he did. Of course he did.
Speaker 1:Isn't that great, celebrate it. But I think there's some mystique that the Catholic church loves to have, and good on them. But at the end of the day, the new Pope, you know his goal is going to be no different than ours, and that's to point everyone to the source of peace, uh, the source of love. And, and he's lived a, you know, his hip lived a long life already pointing to god yes and I think he'll continue to.
Speaker 2:He'll just be wearing different clothes now that he does it, so yeah, my husband told me yesterday that the pope was at the fa cup final that's great but do you know what? At first I was like oh, is he thinking I wouldn't put it past him, because I know I don't think they've gone that?
Speaker 1:far the americans. Uh, because he's from chicago. Originally. He was born in chicago. So the americans have professional sports teams in chicago and they have the White Sox and the Cubs, and I don't know which one it was, but I saw they released a papal kit uniform and it has the Vatican seal on this shirt, so they have like baseball tops in honor of the Pope, which is hilarious. I'm hoping that the Chicago Bears, which is the big, historic NFL football team it's American football that the Bears will do something too, because you know, I said they called him Da Pope instead of Da Bears, but it's again.
Speaker 1:It's just one of those things where an institution and a denomination that historically has just been outside and above all culture and life, and suddenly it's being grounded and I hope people won't see that as a threat because you don't have to react to the humanity of the institution. It doesn't rob it of its divinity. You know Christ's presence. No one is arguing about the presence of Christ just because the packaging looks different in a Presbyterian church or a Methodist church. My guess is that someone like John Wesley could celebrate the arrival of a new Pope just like anybody. Htb I was watching their live stream in the morning and they sing that song.
Speaker 1:I've Got Joy and I've gotten to. I love that song. I just crank it up. I sent a Snapchat to my family of that song. I've Got Joy and I don't know what it is, but there's something about being able to just fully put on the joy of the Lord and maybe that's what Acorn is about for me is just telling people put on the joy, put know, put it on, wear it, button it up. Don't put one hand in, put both arms in and wrap yourself up in it. Don't be kind of one of these kind of partially committed people, but fully embrace the power of God and the joy that comes with being a disciple, and that's beyond all denominations. Denominationalism is just kind of packaging, but at the end of the day, you want the bread of life and you want to consume the thing that's going to sustain you for life and for life's journey.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to coffee pods today. Don't forget to like, follow and subscribe. This podcast is made possible thanks in part to the generosity of people like you.
