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A series exploring Christian healing in a handy coffee-break sized podcast. Plug yourself in, pick up your mug of coffee, and let's go.
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What Belfast Taught Us About Reconciliation And The Church’s Call To Love
A wall that promises peace but still divides. Laughter that breaks open a room heavy with history. We take you from autumn’s calm to Belfast’s living memory, where murals speak, neighbours disagree, and a healing hub welcomes anyone willing to make the journey.
Across the hour, we unpack the Good Friday Agreement in plain language and trace how power sharing, rights, and decommissioning reframed conflict without erasing pain. We name the people who shaped the path—Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Ian Paisley, John Hume, David Trimble—and spotlight the faith leaders who paid a cost to keep conversation alive. Father Alec Reid, Archbishop Robin Eames, and Father Gerry Reynolds offer a language of peace that demands more than silence: justice, understanding, and the courage to see Christ in the other.
We bring it home with practice. Reconciliation starts in the heart before it reaches the street. Prayer, confession, liturgy, hospitality—these are not extras; they are the disciplines that steady us when rhetoric runs hot. A story of estranged brothers embracing at a funeral shows what can happen when truth and tenderness meet. From there, a simple pattern emerges: a centred self builds a kinder home, a kinder home shapes a generous community, a generous community becomes a credible church, and a credible church can help mend a divided world. Micah 6:8 holds the thread—act justly, love mercy, walk humbly.
If this conversation moves you, share it with a friend, subscribe for more grounded, hope-filled episodes, and leave a review with one way you’ll practice reconciliation this week. Your next step might be as small as a meal, a phone call, or a prayer that opens a door.
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It's so good to be back home in beautiful autumn in England. It is beautiful. It's uh we're we're very blessed. Sometimes I think we we don't realize how lovely the colors are um all around us in the world, and so it was great. I went to Wisley Gardens this week. And uh oh my gosh, it's just so beautiful. I highly recommend it to anybody who needs a a place to get away. And if you think it's gonna be too cold, you just go inside the glass house and sit with the you sit in Southeast Asia inside of Wisley Gardens with the gigantic rainforest.
SPEAKER_00:So it's incredible, isn't it? Oh, it's wonderful.
SPEAKER_01:We're very blessed. But yeah, I just got back from uh from Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland, Peter a fantastic time. It is such a such a beautiful place. The the airport there in Belfast is so lovely and easy and seeing right past the where the Titanic was built in the shipyard, and there's a museum there now, and the big yellow cranes from shipbuilding days are still towering over Belfast. But um I asked somebody when I was there, Lisa, I said, Well, what's the best thing about Belfast? What's the best thing about Northern Ireland? And I was thinking they were going to tell me about a place on the North Shore or something like that. Every person I asked about this, they immediately said without hesitation, Oh, it's the people. It's the people in Northern Ireland. And and you know, I could not agree more. Everywhere I went, the folks were so so joyful and happy, and and I know there's a history which we're gonna touch on today that's not so happy and joyful, but everywhere I went this past week, um, I just was met with good food and good people and some of the best belly laughs. I mean, I've never had such laughter. Um, there were a couple of houses that I went to visit people, and just the I mean, I felt like I was in an old movie or something, just the belly laughs, yeah. Um, from just the joyful encounter that we had. Um, but I I did leave um with several invitations, you know. Please come back and come come see us again and spend more time. And so it's it's very exciting.
SPEAKER_00:Um to it's somewhere you would go back, is it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, without without question, I I think the healing hub in Carmani uh that Acorn kind of uh sponsors is fantastic. And I think the day I was there, we had something like 12 visitors.
SPEAKER_02:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:And the team was ready to go, and and I really the the people that I prayed with, it was very profound. Um, we had a couple of very real situations that needed prayer, and they came for healing. And um, I mean, there were tears, there was joy. Um, it was it was just so real. And I thought, gosh, this is you know, and I told them we had a little meeting with the hub um the leaders uh the day before, and and I said, Really, you guys are the model, you're the model of what a good hub looks like for Acorn and not just for Acorn, for any church or cathedral or organization that says we want to have our own healing hub. Um, honestly, I would say, well, let me take you to Belfast so we can introduce you to these folks and show you how they do it. Um, and they're not on a main, you know, they're not like easily accessible for pedestrians, they're kind of out north of the city. So people have to make an intentional decision to go to the healing hub. And so people might complain and say, we can't have a healing hub because we're not in the right location. That doesn't that doesn't work. I mean, they're doing it, they really are doing it there, and it's making a difference, it's changing lives, and it's really exciting.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, there's so much love um in that hub. It's it's wonderful. And we were gonna talk about some of the history that has taken place. Um, it's something that really hit me hard when I I visited in I think it's February of this year. I didn't realise how um relevant some of it still, or it is still there. The history is still um present, is what I think I'm saying. But it was really surprising. Um, you're a bit of a history buff, so I think it would be good for us to maybe go through some of that for people who just don't know really anything about Northern Ireland.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, who would have thought that this gigantic wall, which is I don't know how many miles it is long in the middle of Belfast, there's a wall called the Peace Wall. But it's this giant wall that kind of reminded me of the Berlin Wall years ago. But it's it's basically a wall that divides the people of the different viewpoints. So typically you have the the Catholic side of the wall and the Protestant side of the wall. Um, but it's called the Peace Wall, and it's massively graffited, it's a giant art installation, really. But unlike the Berlin Wall, it still serves a purpose as of dividing communities. So even though it talks of peace, you you do feel the tension when you walk down there and and you kind of find yourself looking at the history, which isn't is recent history where people have died and where the struggles have have happened. And and of course, it's not called a war over there, it's called the troubles. And so whenever you're around the the city, you know, you you speak of the troubles, and when you have older people who testify to you know where they were in the troubles, or you speak to someone whose perhaps whose husband or or um son was uh a police officer, and you listen to the testimonies of those people who were facing bomb threats on a daily basis and things of that sort, you know. And for those, you know, I I'm I remember in 1991 um leaving Victoria Station and a bomb went off in Victoria Station and I was heading to Gatwick. And so it's it this is fresh history, some of the the atrocities that happened in the name of bringing peace about in in Northern Ireland. So um maybe I should go through um because there are a lot of people you know that really don't know the history of of Northern Ireland or at least the recent history. And so they just kind of look at it as a you know, if you're an American, you look at it and think, well, the British took America and then we kicked the British out, and and so they look at Ireland in kind of the same way, and they see Ireland and Northern Ireland as one place, and they don't see the nuances of of that and how there there is a difference. So maybe um, you know, maybe I should just take a little short history of of the troubles.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Take us through a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:So you had conflict and division and pain, which led to this time of trouble, um, which ended, supposedly ended. There's still questions about the tension that's still there, but there was this thing called the Good Friday Agreement, which was finally signed in 1998. So it's not that long ago. 10th of April 1998, the Good Friday Agreement was signed, and that was supposed to kind of end the troubles. Um this Good Friday Agreement um created a power-sharing government in Northern Ireland, and that means that Unionist and nationalist, typically Protestants and Catholics, they would share political power, something that before was quite uh tricky because who's in charge and who's who has the police and who has the military? Um the the confirmation in the Good Friday Agreement that Northern Ireland is still a part of the UK. There's so many people to this day who don't actually realize that Northern Ireland, not Ireland, the Republic, but Northern Ireland is still very much a part of the United Kingdom. Now that could change, and that was one of the discussion points when I was over there. There is talk of a referendum, of an attempt to reunite with the Republic of Ireland. Again, that would take a lot of votes and it would create a lot of controversy, I believe. Um, there were lots of cross-border institutions set up that improved cooperation between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. But Republic of Ireland still uses Euros, it's still very much a country of its own. Uh, when I flew into Belfast, I didn't go through any kind of foreign border. I was it was a domestic flight.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And that some people think, oh, wait a minute, I just went to Ireland. No, you you landed in Oregon. Yeah. The the big thing the Good Friday Agreement did was call for the decommissioning of weapons and the reform of the behavior of the police, which we we know through some of the um, you know, amazing Daniel Day Lewis movie in the name of the father. I don't know if you remember some amazing movies that have pointed out corruption and things like that. Um, and there were prisoners that were being held um linked to paramilitary groups that were also released as part of the Good Friday Agreement. Um the Good Friday Agreement also had a big thing about human rights, equality, and peaceful political dialogue rather than you know throwing bombs and rocks and violence. So that's kind of how they ended the troubles. The the troubles themselves go way, way back because the population of Northern Ireland is kind of split. You have what people called loyalist or unionist. Um, these are mostly Protestant folks and they wish to remain uh part of the UK. When you walk through that part of Belfast, you often see uh murals on the walls, King Charles or Queen Elizabeth.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So you you actually would have um imagery that connects you to the United Kingdom.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_01:So um, if you're on the other side, you have the nationalists or people called Republicans. Um, these are mostly Protestant, and their color is green typically. The Protestants are orange. Um, and the the Republicans or the Nationalists, they're the ones that are constantly are kind of seeking that unification with the Republic of Ireland. And so there's your tension. You have one group of people who are loyal to the Crown and to the United Kingdom, and the other group who want to break away and join forces with the rest of Ireland. Um the, you know, when I was just getting to know this whole scenario over here, I remember one of the my first tastes of the Northern Ireland stuff was um seeing the image of a guy named Jerry Adams. Do you remember Jerry Adams?
SPEAKER_00:His name does. I think, yeah, I think I do.
SPEAKER_01:So he was the the head of Sinn Fayin, uh, which is a political party associated with the IRA. Okay, they banned his voice on the BBC. And so when I first came to the UK, I kept seeing images of this guy speaking, and then they would overdub an Irish actor's voice.
SPEAKER_02:Really?
SPEAKER_01:Because his voice was actually banned from the BBC. Now, believe it or not, he's still alive. He's 77 years old. He's one of the only real architects of peace, one of the great leaders during the Troubles who's still living. Um, but he is still there and doesn't have a hugely prominent role now in governing, but he's still there and very still involved. The other named people that people, you know, if you were looking up, who were the the key players in this time? Martin McGuinness. A lot of people remember uh Martin McGuinness. He he was um also part of the IRA later involved with Shen Fein. He died in 2017. Um again, these were he was a chief negotiator in the peace talks. He was very in involved, and he and Jerry Adams, you would often see them together uh because they were sort of fighting for their corner, for their ideas. Um, and then you had the the great Ian Paisley. Um many people, when they heard about the Northern Ireland situation, they remember the booming voice of this this Presbyterian pastor, um, Ian Paisley, who you know he was part of the Democratic Unionist Party. Again, these were all political leaders who also had religious roots and connection. Now he was really a hard-line unionist, and he stood directly against Irish nationalism, and he opposed all compromises. He kind of he was a big guy, and he would stand up and speak. And so you remember these battling voices, and and then you had uh, and and he died in 2014. I guess the the other two people on my list were John Hume, who was a social democratic, you know, he was labor party. Yeah, um, he was more of a moderate nationalist leader, and um he he was pushing in the direction of peace. Um he with uh Jerry Adams was uh really crucial to bringing um the Republicans to the negotiation table. And he actually with David Trimble won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1998, believe it or not. Nobel Peace Prize winner. And then David Trimble, I just mentioned, yeah, and he died in tw 2022, so not not that long ago. I guess he's the last one to to die. He was a member of the Ulster Unionist Party, and uh he was also a key negotiator for peace, and he is one of the ones who signed the Good Friday Agreement, right? And then when he did, he became the first minister of Northern Ireland. Um, so so that's kind of your your key players in all of that. There's there's another one that I didn't put on my list, and that's uh Archbishop uh Robin Ames, and uh he's now Lord Ames and and is in the House of Lords and still active today. And uh it's actually somebody I spoke with last week uh before I went to Northern Ireland, he and I spoke, and and uh because I really had a thought in my head that came through prayer that Acorn needs to really get more involved in its reconciliation ministry.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And I thought, who better to help us with visioning that than the guy who called all of these leaders to the table and prayed with them and showed leadership and called them to peace and called them to reconciliation? And um, he called me last week and we talked a little bit. Um, and he's very he, you know, he's very interested because he's passionate about this, and uh, and so we're going to we're gonna sit down. Um, he's he's invited me to dinner at the House of Lords of all places to talk about peace and reconciliation. And uh, and I think he'd like to hear my experience of going to Belfast. Um it was real funny. He goes, Oh, you're going to my home, you know. He was so lovely. And I I met Archbishop Ames back in uh 2010, I guess it was, when he came to Virginia, and it was right after so much of of this uh stuff had kind of happened, and we ended up walking through the woods in the in Virginia at a place called Shrinemont, and I was so fascinated just to talk to this wonderful man of God about his faith and about his hope and about his country. Who, you know, he you could tell that it was all mixed up in a stew for him, and um, and so the idea that he still is eager to share the things that they learned there with the rest of the world, who let's face it, we live in a time where there's division all over the place needing reconciliation.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, and and I think it's really easy to just kind of try and ignore it. Um, I mean, you in your conversation with Callum, you're talking about um, you know, basically not not caring, but is it, you know, is it easier to almost not care? Um, have we become tired of caring? And I think reconciliation conflict is one of those areas that actually we need to re-engage in as a healing ministry and as as Christians.
SPEAKER_01:I think so. It's very easy to build a giant wall and not care about the people on the other side of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:To say, well, there's a big boundary there, and this is the end of my empathy stops at the wall. And you say, Well, what about the children on the other side of the wall? Well, who cares? What if they don't have any food? Well, who cares? Well, Christians can't live like that. Surely we're called to love everybody. Um, but it, you know, that sounds simplistic when when you're living in a time um of conflict, you know, certainly the troubles were a time where things were being resolved violently, and no one felt like they were being listened to. And so the way you deal with things when you're not listened to is you make noise, and then they have to listen to you. And the noise of a of a bomb going off really gets people's attention.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And assassination of people, you know, and suddenly you've got this guerrilla warfare kind of violence happening.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm sure in July this year, they'll, you know, the tensions always seem to rise and fall in Northern Ireland around marching season. And so we'll realize that the the herd is still there. Um, you know, I walked up and down the roads, um, you know, Shankill Road, and all the the you know, there are monuments everywhere to those who've died, and it's stunning to see the ages, you know, 17, 19, the uh, you know, it's a phenomenal list of young people who have died.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And um and and they're putting these monuments up lest we forget on both sides of the wall. And so I guess that means the work of reconciliation doesn't just suddenly end, but it continues to the next generation. And so the question, all the people that I listed, you know, they're gone. They've gone to heaven, they're with God, and so the rest of us we remember their legacy, and we remember the legacy of the people of that era and what happened, the injustices and the horrors. And so, what will we do for the next generation for our children and their children? What will the world look like like for them? So, you know, I I think maybe I put some notes, uh uh, some quotes uh from faith leaders, which I thought some there are there are two or three quotes that I thought I would share.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I was doing some reading. I went to the Clonard, I hope I pronounced that correctly, the Clonard Monastery. Um we went to this big church, and I remember hearing stories about the priest here, and and there were a couple of ministers that whenever someone was killed, they would literally go to the houses of those people and pray with them. The families of those who had lost loved ones. It was quite risky behavior, but that that was born out of this um this place. And Father Alec Reed was one of the um, you know, he was actually one of the priests who who did this. And um, and one of the quotes that that um that that I got from reading some of his work was he wrote, I am a priest, I believe in life, I believe in peace, and I believe in reconciliation. You know, this is this is the guy who was photographed giving last rites to a dying British soldier in 1988. And he was also a behind-the-scenes mediator with so many others, with Sinn Fein and and the SDLP. Um so another quote was from Archbishop Ames.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:He said, peace is not just the absence of violence, it's the presence of justice, of understanding, and of reconciliation.
SPEAKER_02:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that's such a it says so much. And then finally, Jerry Reynolds, who was also at the Clonard Monastery, he said, we must learn to see Christ in the other, even when the other is our enemy.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's that's a biggie that, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so the these are guys that you know they they did amazing things and uh in a in a difficult time, and I often think, you know, people think that they're living right now in such a difficult time. And I think we can learn from those who've lived in difficult times before us, and we know that there will be difficult times after us.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's really helpful.
SPEAKER_01:So, what do we do now to build peace, to promote reconciliation, and to bring healing to a broken world?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because some of the quotes, well, all of the quotes that you just shared, I can imagine each of these people standing up and sharing the quote in the moment, in the time where it is gonna hit the hardest. And that will seem a lot of this will seem controversial, or it will seem yeah, who are they saying stuff like that about this situation?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, how can you tell me I have to love Christ in my enemy? Wait a minute. Yeah, don't tell me that Christ is in my enemy, the enemy's the enemy, the devil's the enemy. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna dare say that I can find Christ on the other side of that wall.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, it's it's really, really big stuff, but as you're saying, we can learn from the people before to help now and help move forward as well. So, what what would you say some of the lessons are that have you know come out just from this from the troubles?
SPEAKER_01:Um I mean, I think that the church is called to live in a demonstrative way for people and families. So the church should should actually demonstrate the love of Jesus and the reconciliation that Jesus calls us all to. So if the church is a place of split and division and schism and all that, then the church isn't actually doing what it's supposed to do. I think the church has to address internal divisions. I think the church has to embrace diversity. That that sounds controversial. Um, diversity of theology, diversity of tradition. Whether you have a rock and roll guitar up front or whether you have someone with a monstrance or a cyborium being elevated with the host, there are different ways that people do church. But at the end of the day, God calls us to love everybody. And um, I think that means that we're called to create safe spaces.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think when you see a place where there has been hostility and people talk about how it's unsafe to go to certain places, that makes me really sad because I think surely when Christians are living out the mandate to love God and their neighbor, um there is no place that should be unsafe. Anywhere we go, we find brothers and sisters. And so anywhere I go in the world that is unsafe, I find that deeply sad. And then I think, what do we need to do to fix that? Yeah. What can we do to fix things like family estrangement? You know, I still remember a funeral I did years and years ago, the early 2000s, I did a funeral and they told me before the funeral, they said, Whatever you do, don't uh don't let these family members, don't let these brothers get together because they're gonna fight each other in the funeral home. And uh and I thought, okay, so I've heard that from this person and I heard it from another person, and then someone whispered in my ear the day of the funeral, whatever you do, keep the boys apart. And the funeral director himself even came over before the service and he said, You know, I've had trouble, you know, be careful that this could blow up, and we don't want to have to call the police. And I'm thinking, what about Jesus? And uh, and I still remember to this day those who were at that funeral. Um, you know, I won't mention names or anything, but those who were at that funeral and saw this know that this really happened. Um, I stood next to the coffin and I put my hand on the coffin and I said, uh, the one thing that I knew for a fact was what their mother wanted me to say to them. And I called the three of them to the front of the church. And everybody, oh you literally could hear.
SPEAKER_00:People were like, no, Chris, no, don't do it, don't go there.
SPEAKER_01:I called them to the front, and we had like a little huddle. It was almost like being a football coach in that moment. And I had these three boys, and they were good men, they were good fathers and good husbands, but boy, they were just fighting with each other. And uh, and I said, Your mother loves you, and I went on a little bit, and then I said, and the one thing she told me before she died was that she her prayer was that you three boys would love each other. I said, That's the greatest gift you could give your mama. Yeah, I kid you not, it was like the damn burst. There were tears, the boys hugged each other, everybody in the congregation began crying. It was glorious. Yeah, the Holy Spirit moved, and it was, you know, and I thought, that's my only, you know, I've got a few other stories like that, but that's my only frame of reference where I can talk about reconciliation that's powerful, where you see the Holy Spirit move in a situation where suddenly enemies become brothers.
SPEAKER_02:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:And and you think they're not gonna fight now, they're gonna fight for each other for the rest of their lives. Yeah, and so in that moment in the liturgy, you know, think a funeral liturgy. There we are, commending her soul to Almighty God, and in that moment, healing can come to a warring family. And uh, you know, the church is the same. There are church people that fight each other and disagree, there are tensions, there are people saying some ugly things right now in the global church. Ugly things about other people because they have theological differences. I don't care if you have theological differences with other people, that doesn't give you a right to be nasty and ugly and start calling people names. Yeah, I mean, I turn my I turn YouTube on and I see some of the the stuff that's out there pretending to be Orthodox Christianity, and it's just ugliness. Yeah, just ugly. Sit down with somebody you disagree with and love them and listen to them, but don't be nasty and snipe at them.
SPEAKER_00:And you're spot on because you can then see how people think that the church is not a safe space for them to find reconciliation or or healing or community, whatever it might be. Um also the there is a real importance of spiritual discipline, isn't there? Um things like prayer, confession, um, you mentioned liturgy as well, hospitality. Those are all things that I think draw us into and invite others into the love of God.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's Second Corinthians 5 says, God has given us the ministry of reconciliation. That means God Himself has told us that we're not just to go and make disciples of all nations, but we're also to go and bring people together who have fallen apart. And you know, so maybe the the question that I came back from from Northern Ireland with in my heart was to kind of look at the world with fresh new eyes and say, well, where where do we need reconciliation today? You know, I I think where I live here, but bigger than that, I look in every aspect of life, the politics in Westminster, the politics in Washington, DC, around the globe, the Ukraine, Russia, where do we need reconciliation today? I look in Jerusalem, the the Holy Land as a center place where we need reconciliation, where peace is not real for these people. They are living under the threat of a bomb. What can we do to promote a real Real and lasting peace in the world. And that's the echo that you get when you walk out of Belfast, you realize life is way too short to live in conflict. We must work for peace and be advocates for peace because Jesus was the Prince of Peace. And if there's anything that matters, it should be bringing peace on earth. And here we are turning in autumn, turning toward Bethlehem. The whole ministry of the church and the world turns toward the birth of Christ.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh, that's that. I mean, yeah, you're right. There could be a whole new revelation of that. That's really exciting, actually. Um, I was gonna ask a question, I'm gonna try and word it correctly. Um when there seems to be so much big conflict going on in the world, and you have your own stuff that you might be dealing with personally. How would you as a minister encourage somebody to um seek God in this? Like, do you start with yourself or do you go big or do you bring it all to God?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I I like to think that the the first battle that you need to win is the battle inside your your own heart. And so if if you are divided in your in your loyalty and living in an internal war, um that that's the first place you need to go. But what often happens is that we we project our inner conflict on the world around us, because instead of seeking healing and peace within our own hearts, it's much easier to lash out at the others around us. Yeah, and so if I'm unresolved in my understanding of something like whether women should be in leadership in the church, something we've talked about, if I'm unresolved in that, it's much easier for me to spend my time bashing women in leadership than it is for me to stop and go into my own heart and pray about what's going on in me. What is, you know, maybe that's where you are in your walk with God and that you just can't reconcile um women in pastoral leadership. Maybe that's just something theologically that will never work for you. But when when that reality turns into a need to destroy people around you who don't share the same ideas, then that becomes problematic, I think. And again, there's there is an arrogance in um in people who suddenly think I'm right and you're wrong, and I know I'm right, and I'm gonna preach what I know to be true. Now I I believe that there's a place for speaking of the truth of Jesus Christ, but how you experience God and transformation and salvation and all of these things, um, I'm not going to say I can prescribe how every human being is going to be impacted by the Holy Spirit. Um so that's where the wiggle room is. And you're asking, well, what do you do? Well, I mean, a broken self turns into a broken home, which turns into a broken community, which often can look like a broken church.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And all of these broken places can cause collateral damage to other people that are nearby. So the best way to fix things is to have a centered self who loves God and is rooted in prayer, which turns into a family of people who make an effort to love each other and live sacrificially, and that turns into a community that looks loving and selfless and generous, which turns into a church that's excited and alive and rooted in Jesus, which turns into a world that's filled with people who are spending extra time making a difference in the lives of other people who live on the other side of the walls that the world has created.
SPEAKER_00:It's amazing, amazing. That gives a that really does give hope because I can see that being possible. And I hope for those of you listening that some of what Chris has shared and we've talked about, as you're listening, you're you can see the hope um that that is there because of the love of God.
SPEAKER_01:Wonderful. And we work for an organization called Acorn. What happens if you plant an acorn? What does it do? It turns into a tree.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:It grows and it expands and it creates other acorns that grow into other trees and they produce a harvest. And so, you know, maybe that's the message that we just have to be faithful and uh and and not follow the we have to be the salmon that's willing to swim up the stream of negativity and say, I'm I refuse to go downstream because it's easy. I'm gonna swim upstream, and that's where I'm gonna spawn. And when I spawn, there's gonna be more salmon than you could ever imagine because we're gonna be faithful, even though it's a difficult journey upstream sometimes, but it's a better place to be to live um a faithful life as a disciple of Jesus Christ in in good, clear water, yeah, than to just go with the flow. Because Belfast, that's one thing it taught me is you know, just you don't have to go with the flow. Um, your Christian walk is not about uh finding new and creative ways to judge your enemies and judge others. Um, it really is about um discovering the richness in one evening meal at somebody's house where you laugh and you break bread and you love each other and you hear stories, yeah. Stories of heartbreak and stories of joy. I know you probably saw Carol when you were in Oh, yeah. I I had a meal at Carol's house, and we laughed and we cried. She made a joke that absolutely broke me. It was wonderful, and we ate the best food and it just kept coming and kept coming. I mean, she is the host. Yeah, she's and um, but the thing that I enjoyed ingesting more than any of the food, and even the Pavlova at the end was the love in the room. Yeah, we were all different people, all of us sitting around that table had such varying backgrounds, and yet we came and we sat around that table and we broke bread, and we truly had a moment where there was peace and love, and I thought, I I want more of this. Yeah, and then in true Carol fashion, she says, Oh, you can come back and bring your wife, and you can just sleep on the couch, which is right. There was a couch on the other side of the room, and she says, It makes into a bed, you can come. And uh, little did she know I was playing with her little, she has a new dog called Harry, and I was playing under the table with Harry while we were having these conversations. She has this precious little dog, and uh, you know, me and dogs. Um, but again, it goes back to um maybe this is how we should end today. Um, uh an old priest friend from Virginia used to come into my office, and almost every time he left my office, he would look at me and he would say, Never forget Micah 6. Never forget Micah 6, 8. Act justly, love mercy and walk humbly with your God. I thought, what you know, it's one of those random places in the Old Testament that most people don't even know where it is. But old Father B. Lloyd used to tell me this all the time act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God. It's like that's the magic formula.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_01:It's a formula that I think brought peace to the troubles in Northern Ireland. I think it's a formula that could bring peace in other places in the world. And I think it's a formula that I'm gonna try and live this week. Yeah, and um, and I didn't tell you, I'm I'm actually talking about this subject a little bit in the academy on November 1st.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, great.
SPEAKER_01:Because we're actually the subject is um healing the wounded church, yeah, yeah. And so this is something I've been really getting into this month with my thoughts and everything about what do you what does that look like in the church? Really? Burnout and disillusionment and things like that. And so if people come to the academy on the first of November, they're gonna get a whole host of of this stuff and then a chance to to talk about it more. So that'll be fun.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. I'm looking forward to it. And if you head over to our website, you can book yourself on. Um, there's no charge, but we do take registrations. And thank you, Chris, for everything you brought. Thank you for you listening.
SPEAKER_01:So good to be back, and a special hello to our wonderful listeners in Northern Ireland. Yes, and I'm excited to go back. Francis gave me a couple of beautiful pictures. Her son is a professional photographer, yeah, and she gave me a couple of Jonathan's wonderful prints. And it's sneaky though, because I know that Francis and George, by giving me Jonathan's pictures, they're guaranteeing that I have to go back and see those places with my own eyes. Because Northern Ireland is a gorgeous place, you know, just on the ground. The green is green and the ocean's beautiful, but the people are beautiful, the land is beautiful, and uh, and I hope if if anybody is looking for a vacation spot, I strongly suggest uh go to Belfast and go up to the north and spend a few days, and you you'll not be disappointed by the joy of the people, and uh and stop by Karmami Parish and say hi to Reverend Andy, who is uh just an absolutely wonderful pastor. I he he hosted me at his house with his wife, and they were just so generous to me, fed me and took such good care of me. And um one of the pastor's pastor is uh wonderful.
SPEAKER_00:Well, the last thing we're gonna say, because we always end on it, is do not forget to like
