Chloe & Maud Arnold: The Humans Behind the Headlines (Recorded October 2022)

What’s behind the headlines—and what happens when purpose, presence, and generosity quietly shape the biggest opportunities?

In this episode, I’m joined by tap-dance powerhouse sisters Chloe and Maud Arnold—creators, choreographers, educators, entrepreneurs, and the visionary force behind Syncopated Ladies, the all-female tap ensemble that has amassed over 100 million views online. Their work has traveled to more than 30 countries, with appearances on The Ellen Show, Good Morning America, The Kelly Clarkson Show, and So You Think You Can Dance—and recognition from cultural icons including Beyoncé, Whoopi Goldberg, Shonda Rhimes, and Janet Jackson.

But this conversation isn’t about the highlight reel.

It’s about the humans behind the headlines—and the small, deeply human choices that often create the biggest turning points. Chloe and Maud share how major breakthroughs have come through everyday acts of care: giving a friend a ride, making space for someone who needs to be included, and leading with mission rather than image.

We talk about:

• Why “being present” is a performance skill—and a life skill
• The “make it until you make it… and keep making it” mindset (and the early projects nobody saw)
• Rejection, resilience, and staying open without getting bitter
• Identity, excellence, and the power of being raised with the message: you already belong
• What it means to choose your standards—and protect your energy—while staying generous and grounded

This one is an invitation to slow down, remember what matters, and honor the unseen moments that shape a life.

As STOPTIME: Live in the Moment approaches five years of conversations (almost six!), I’m revisiting and re-sharing a few favorite episodes—conversations that continue to resonate and meet us exactly where we are. This one felt especially worth returning to.Thank you for listening—and for being part of this journey.— Lisa 💜

If you are enjoying the show please subscribe, share and review! Word of mouth is incredibly impactful and your support is much appreciated!

Transcript

Welcome And Listener Support

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Hey there. If you're enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to leave a review and to follow or subscribe. Don't forget to share with anybody that you think might be interested. Your support is greatly appreciated. Word of mouth is incredibly powerful, and it's the best way for us to reach more people and grow this wonderful community. Thanks again for listening. This is the Stop Time Podcast. I'm your host, Lisa Hopkins, and I'm here to engage you in thought-provoking motivational conversations around practicing the art of living in the moment. I'm a certified life coach, and I'm excited to dig deep and offer insights into embracing who we are and where we are at. My next guests are a dynamic duo of sisters who have worked together as a team and separately on countless projects in film, television, fashion, and live stage. Their work has taken them worldwide to over 30 countries and inspired so very many. Widely known for their all-female tap dance band, Syncapated Ladies, they have amassed over 100 million views online with appearances on the Ellen Show, Good Morning America, The Kelly Clarkson Show, So You Think You Can Dance, and have received praise not only from their fans and followers, but from Beyoncé, Whoopi Goldberg, Shonda Rhimes, Janet Jackson, as well as many other celebrities and news outlets around the world. During the pandemic, they gave free classes to over 25,000 students worldwide online and continued their afterschool programs in South Central LA and favelas in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. They are on a mission to elevate and celebrate the art of tap dancing through film, television, and live events. They are tap dancers, choreographers, educators, entrepreneurs, philanthropists. And I am thrilled to say that they are here with me today on Stop Time. So please welcome Chloe and Maud Arnold. Welcome, Gal.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Thank you. Thank you. We're so glad to be here. Yes, and thank you for that awesome intro.

Humans Behind The Headlines

SPEAKER_00 2:30

I know. I'm like, wow, we've done it. Well, it's really, really interesting because literally, you know, um, as I was thinking about you, and I do a lot of time thinking about my guests prior, you guys have such a strong energetic presence, not not just because you're everywhere, everywhere, literally. Um but you just you just do like you held a lot of I felt a lot of energy. Um and you know, it it made me think, you know, you both have this this this super impressive track record of accomplishments, right? And your work has obviously truly captured the hearts of so many. And and I just wanted to ask you if it's okay, if it's okay with you guys. Like, I'd just like to take a moment and like just slow down the tempo a bit, right? And hold space and acknowledge the two of you individually and together for the humans behind the headlines.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

I love that. I love that. Yeah, that's a beautiful thing. And I think that the human behind the headline is the only reason there's a headline because when I was talking to uh Cherish, one of our managers yesterday, and uh there's a like something really awesome in the works for us, uh, a television project. And but the way that we got the tele that this whole thing transpired, it's been a dream of ours, something we've been planting for you know like a decade. But the way that we ended up with this relationship that's pushing this forward is because Maude gave a ride to our friend instead of having them take an Uber. And we know, especially if you live in LA, that giving a ride to a friend during rush hour is a generous, kind act when they could afford an Uber. It's not like this was because they couldn't afford an Uber is a little tough. No, just to be kind and to spend a little more time with a friend, and that transformed into a whole night that then created a relationship that has put us where we are.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Or even me meeting her when I spoke to her, I didn't really know what she did, but she told me that her daughter wanted to dance but had lupus. And I said, Oh, I said, we've worked with very sick dancers before. My sister just said, I said, take my number because my sister is very kind. She's a very kind choreographer. And if nothing else, your daughter could come learn and just be in the room. And that is how me and this woman connected. I didn't even know that she was an Emmy Award-winning producer.

SPEAKER_04 5:18

So, what I'm saying is every blessing, like the big ones, have come because of literally some form of giving or being present. It's really even our tour was our agent for our tour, was a former tenant of ours in an apartment in New York when 20 years ago. Yeah, when she was like on the come up and didn't have a spot and blah, blah, blah, you know. And so I'm just really thankful, honestly, for the human experience, which has then given us these incredible moments and places to be and just being in the right place, right time, with a very clear mission. So I I when I look at like all of the again, the headlines and these big things that are happening for us, they're really just the magnification of this initial purpose that we had for our day-to-day lives.

Failures, Early YouTube, Finding Voice

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Totally. No, that makes perfect sense. You know what? I'm really, I'm really super curious about, you know, successful people. Um, you know, we we hear their headlines, right? Because, you know, they're would you share with us like what what maybe, you know, something that it didn't become a headline that maybe should have, like a low light or something? Because I think it's important for people to hear that, you know, there's probably an equal number of failures. They don't know how many things didn't fail that you try, right?

SPEAKER_04 6:47

Well, I want to share one because way at the onset of YouTube when I was traveling around the world and I was going, I was going everywhere. I was in Prague and you know, London, Taiwan, and France and like everywhere. And so I was I started Chloe's World, which was a um video blog in, I want to say like 2007. So this is so far before Instagram and like Facebook videos. This was on YouTube. And what were you shooting it on? Oh my God. I think I was on mini DV or like something, just something really antiquated. And I was self-editing, and I had we had a friend who was really great in graphics, and he did this super awesome intro for me. And I was like, this is gonna be the moment. My show's gonna blow up. And then, you know, the thing has like, you know, 500 views, which I'm like, yay. And I look back though, and that's kind of the the thing about anything you're imagining, is that you have to start somewhere. I love this saying that our friend has. Uh, his name is Maverick Carter, and it's his company's saying, so you know, I don't know who made it up, but it's LeBron James's team. What their saying is make it until you make it and keep making it. It's like, yeah, if you enjoy something, make it. Maybe no one will see it. That's okay. You make something else, and you make something else, and and you you truly never know what the thing is that someone's gonna see. But I was always making videos, just nobody, you know, in college I made short films.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Um, I made short films. Ooh, I kind of want to like, you know, people do those reaction videos. I kind of want to like put them out there and be like, oh my God, what were we doing here? Because it's funny, but the reality is it's like it's good to look back on something and be like, oh, I've gotten so much better, as opposed to looking at something 10 years ago and be like, dang, that was so much better than what it is now, you know.

Battles, Respect, Redefining Success

SPEAKER_04 9:01

And also looking back and saying, I wish I had. Because now I can look at all those countries I went to, and even if no one else is looking at the video, I get to look at it and go, oh my God, that was me in that year, in that time. How was I feeling about myself? How was I feeling about my art? You know, and it was definitely a time where I was still in the, you know, trying to find exactly how to amplify my voice in the most authentic way, you know, because I think because I'm the older sister and because I'm also the older, like Michelle and I, Michelle Dorrance and I are a generation, a specific generation of women in tap. And, you know, like our mission kind of uh emerged both out of New York at the same time. And we were both clear, she was so clear. I want to do, you know, doing the concert dance space and really putting tap dance into that space in like such a powerful way. And for me, I was like, I want to put tap on TV and film, and I want to make like a rock concert basically of tap women. And so, but it, you know, at that when we were starting, our voices were so small in the land of tap because it was just such a male, powerful male voice with massive, you know, Broadway shows that were all men, massive tours that were all guys, and you know, amazing women that were uh honestly the um tradition bearers and keeping it all going, but not having necessarily the same uh platform as these fellas. And so I think I started tap dancing very much when I was in New York. I was definitely uh like in my college days and early 20s, and Michelle as well, I would say we were in the battle zone. We were like, I'm gonna jump in the circle and I'm gonna show you how good I am, you know? And it was like very much a prove yourself state of mind, and like, I've got to have the best chops, my technique has to be incredible, my musicality, and it's like you're you're just fighting for respect. And I definitely the difference of that life and the life I live now is drastic. And it's and it and again, I feel like I needed to go through that, but just for folks to know, I would get in those battles and I wasn't winning and I wasn't shining, and I was off beat, and I was remembering like 16 years old and like falling off the rhythm in a big map in a big jam session that was like pivotal to me to me. To me, that was like, if you can kill it today, you'll make it in life. And it was like I didn't kill it. Um, but it became a formative experience to understand, oh, this is a journey. Like, I'm not gonna kill it for a while. I'm gonna have to keep getting in this circle and keep not being good for a minute, and then I'm gonna start to make sense, and then I'm gonna start to soar, and then I'm gonna realize none of it matters. And I now I have a skill which matters, and that's amazing, but it doesn't matter who's the best in the circle. That's not the defining component of being an artist. So I think if I were to look at like failure, it would be kind of part of it, is also setting a goal that you don't even ever need to meet. That you, you know, like this false sense of success that you're like, I have to do this to be successful. And then you realize a little older, oh no, that's not the answer. It's just a part of the like learning journey.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

100%. And it's so interesting because what stands out to me is it had nothing to do with tap dancing. Your goal was to be seen in that realm. Your goal was to to speak your voice. But the the irony is you didn't know what your voice was because you hadn't been seen, but like you needed both. And that was that was just the conduit, right? So you're right. It's until you have the journey, until you had the bandwidth, you can't look back and and learn and develop your voice. Yeah, it's brilliant. Thank you.

Rejection To Partnership: Rockettes

SPEAKER_02 13:23

I mean, I would say on a quick note, um, I mean, I got denied for a grant this morning, and I was actually screen captured it and was gonna post it on my story because I apply for all of our grants, and and the reality is that people do need to see that you don't get everything, but you just keep it pushing and it's fine. Like, and I'm not angry about it. I mean, I auditioned for a commercial that Chloe is choreographing right now, and I didn't get it, and I am totally fine with it because what's meant for you is for you, and I'm just like, I want to post my audition video because it's so funny, and I'm just waiting to be able to do that. Um, but I'm not angry or bitter, and I think it's important too for young people to see that. But I think people, you know, do show their highlight real publicly, and then people forget that like everybody fails. I think you should share the story about the rockettes. Oh, so when I was in college, I auditioned to be a roquette and I made it through to the end, which also now when I look back, I'm like, how did I make it through that far? Because I'm not very good at precision dancing. And um, they pulled me to the side, and the woman she was like, You're really great, but fitness is an issue. And she was like, probably like 15 pounds or so, you know. And I said, Oh, okay. And I looked at her and I said, in my head, I smiled, I said, Thank you. And I hit my head, I was like, She's crazy. And I left and I went back to my dorm room and probably ordered some more shrimp-fried rice. And uh, but I never got angry, I never got bitter, and I never even bad mouthed them because I had Facebook at the time. I was like one of the first people with Facebook. I never said anything bad, I just remember being like, Well, that's not for me. But we did what was for us, you know, and Chloe created syncopated ladies and you know, all that. So, 16 years later, I this summer I just finished teaching at their intensive for the Rockettes, and you know, it's just a testament to you don't get bitter, you get better, and you focus on yourself. And like Chloe's been talking a lot about purpose. It's like, would I have made a great roquette? Probably not at the end of the day, you know. But did I go home and become anorexic? No. Did I go home and become angry? No. We take almost 150 kids and families from underserved communities to see the raquettes every year. We have an amazing partnership with them. Um, the woman who told me I was too fat essentially is no longer there, and they have a whole new philosophy and approach. They have so many women of color on the line now, and it's it's really quite refreshing to see.

SPEAKER_04 16:05

Yeah. And also, we did during the pandemic, we did a collaboration, a video collaboration with Roquettes. It was Maud and I and the Roquettes, and we did it virtually, and we all we choreographed it offline and then videoed everything and then put it together. And again, the Roquettes posting us dancing with the Roquettes, specifically us dancing differently than them. I mean, you want to talk about changing of just the guards and the mentality. And I and I think, you know, for for there to be progress, for there to be change, you have to stay open and you can't get so heavy and kind of um, you know, just write off the system because the reality is it's going to keep being there. So you know, the options are uh be like Maud said, be bitter or push forward and try to be better and try to try to create change. And so it's exciting to be able to see an institution that's so old, uh, hire new people and have and and stretch their imagination and open their minds. And that's it's really special.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Yeah, 100%. Hey, Chloe, I understand that you applied for all of the all of the Ivy League schools, is that right? And you got accepted to all of them? Yes. So yay, first of all. But I but I'm I'm really curious to know why that was important to you to apply to all of them. I love that you asked that question.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Um Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

There's a video on Instagram right now, it is so funny. Um, it's me playing tug of war with three guys. It's hysterical.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

It's like you have to watch it. I cried.

SPEAKER_04 17:54

Okay, I will post the link on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Okay, I cried.

Ivy Leagues, Manifesting, Full Circle

SPEAKER_04 17:58

This video depicts who I am. If you say who's Chloe, it's easy.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

So it's true.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

So from a child, I have always been competitive. And it's interesting because I've also, it's this weird combination because I've always been competitive from very young. But there was definitely the time of like 12 to 15 where my dancing was still very like shy and not like not bold, but still in an I was still very competitive. It's very interesting in my mind. I don't mean like hurting anyone else or like trying to beat people, but I mean I played sports and I was going to run, run as fast as I could down the soccer field. Um, in the neighborhood, I played basketball every day. I wanted to make the three pointers. Like I loved competing at a at in anything. It'd be like, who wants to play the game? I'm participating. Who wants to run the relay race? I'd like to. In a in a class in like fifth grade, it's like, who wants to play trivia? I do. I I realized from Tug of War this this party that I went to. It was an adult birthday party with all these games. Who played all the games? I was the only person who played all the games. I realized that that is who I am. I'm a participator. I like to participate. And then I like to achieve within said participation. Now, when I was in high school, I was in a public high school. Um, my mom is so amazing because I had gotten into a gifted and talented program in middle school. And I went to that school, she was like, you need to try it out. And I it wasn't in my like track of the schools I was in. Yeah, with all my friends. And and um I went to the school for like two weeks, and it's like the school that's gonna get you into every great college because it's more everything. And I went for two weeks and I was like, mom, I don't like it. I don't like this environment, I don't like the culture, I don't like the people. Can I please go back to my regular school? Now, what parent lets their kid leave the magnet gets an intal to school to go back to the quote unquote regular school? Well, my mom does. So she lets me go back. Our mom is the educator, by the way. Yes. School teacher. She lets me go back. I'm the happiest that can be in my back to my school, playing all my sports and seeing all my friends and being in, you know, what I considered just regular school with all my folks. So then get to high school through this, you know, like same track. And mind you, of course, the schools that I were that I were in had just more minorities than the magnet school, unfortunately, the nature of how the US education system works. So I get to high school and I had an English teacher. And this was now an uh like maybe 10th or 11th grade, and an English teacher, and she was like, Yeah, you'll never get into Harvard. Because I was saying, like, what schools I'd like to apply to, you know, and again, since I'm an achiever, I like say, I'm gonna apply to Harvard, right? I like this name that and she's like, Yeah, you'll never get in.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

And I remember she said, You need to just apply to University of Maryland, and maybe you could go there.

SPEAKER_04 21:28

So I said, Oh, really? Competitive Chloe was like, I'm gonna apply to every Ivy League. And you watch me work.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

And um my mom what mommy did.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

My mom, when she did that, found um found, perhaps took a uh poster that was on a wall in a it was in a bus stop. In a bus stop, and it said, What if Harvard were your safety school? She took it, she put it on our front door, on the inside of our front door. So every time on the way to school, that's what we saw on the door heading out to school. And it she really manifested the idea that whatever we imagined is beyond possible. Like it's beyond possible. And so when it was when it came time to apply, uh again, our mom is an educator, and um, you know, she was like, Yeah, go for it, apply for everything, whatever you want. So I applied to all of the Ivy Leagues, I applied to USC, UCLA, and I had visited Columbia. Um, again, back to like how dance and everything ties together. I wanted to go to New York, couldn't afford to go, but I wanted to go to see shows and take master classes. So I reached out to Bukari Wilder, who was a DC hometown homie, and I was like, and I mind you, we hadn't been in touch at all. I cold called him. He's in New York on Broadway. Hi, Bukari. I don't know if you remember me. I'm the one who always had the braid down her back. And he's like, of course I know who you are. And I'm like, really? And I was like, so I really would love to visit New York and come see your show, but I don't have anywhere to stay. And he was like, Come on, you can stay with me. So at 15, I took$20, took the the um Greyhound, then the Greyhound. Oh, it's the Greyhound.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Ooh, there was no China.

Sisters, Identity, Brazil And Independence

SPEAKER_04 23:42

Yeah, took the$20 Greyhound by myself to New York. Bukhari picks me up at Port Authority. I'm like, oh my God, what is this? And we go to Brooklyn, and he introduced me to the world of New York as a professional dancer. Thanks to him, I understood the land. And so one day I was with um uh some of the cast members, and they like the one not the ones that were in the show, the ones training for the show. And I was like, Do you guys know where Columbia is? And yeah. And I was like, can you tell me how to get there? They were like, We'll take you. So a group of the tap dancers took the subway uptown with me. They hung out at the park, Morningside Park, while I went on my. I said, they're like, we'll wait for you here. Have fun. I go up to Columbia. I'm like, do you know where admissions is? And I do my own college visit.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 24:42

Not planned, not scheduled. I just walked in. I'm like, hi. And I remember a really nice guy named Peter Johnson. Rest in peace. Yeah, rest in peace. He passed away. I got his card. And he ended up being the, let's just say the kindest admissions person for me, my sister, all of our friends. Like he and I, but I'll never forget getting his business card and going, admissions, great. And I got all the brochures, and then I went back and met the guys in the park, and they're like, How was it? I was like, I think I want to go here. And they're like, Great. And then we took the subway back and went back to dancing. But it was, it's one of those things where I look at that and I go, I so when I applied to all the schools, my thought is I'm gonna get into all of them, but I'm going to Columbia. Like I already had that in my head. But then when it really happened that I got into all of them, it was like, whoa, I got into Harvard and they've given me a full ride. Uh-oh. Like, uh, now I gotta like, what do I do now? And again, my mom being so, our mom being so amazing, when I said to her, but I really want to go to Columbia, she said, okay, that's your choice. You gotta go where you want to go. And she said, You need to leverage the Harvard money to get Columbia to do more. And so I took the financial aid package from um Harvard, went to Columbia. And then in the long run, Bill Gates came and gave me a scholarship that covered the whole thing. So it wouldn't have mattered where I went, but and we're actually performing for his foundation next week in New York. Oh cool. I know 20 years later, I'm a scholarship student, and I am performing for his next program, which is uh another, you know, for his foundation for giving as well.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

That's cool. It seems like there's a full circle theme going on here, right? With Roquette and then Bill Gates. Always. Hey, Maud, as the younger sibling, what did what did you admire and emulate from Chloe's path? And then what distinctions did you create to set yourself apart from following in her footsteps? I'm so curious.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Well, we grew up together so closely. We shared a room, we've had a business together since she was 10, and I was like four or five. We made scrunchies. I think Chloe made them as a salesperson. Okay, I love that. They were one dollar. They were one dollar, and we would go to like buy the scraps of the scrunchies. You know, you buy like scraps of fabric for like five dollars for a thing. We'd buy that. Um, and then we shared a room together, we went to dance together. When our parents got divorced, um, Chloe became like my full-time babysitter, so because my mom at this point was a single mom, so she had two jobs. So my mom was like, you basically can do whatever you want, Chloe. Like go out, go with your friends, but Maud has to come with you.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

So I was everywhere, um, which was amazing. And I think Was it amazing, Chloe?

SPEAKER_04 27:58

It actually became well, my friends really liked her, so it became it, it was amazing from the standpoint of she just like she was more social. I don't even want to say social because I'm very social, but she was more wild and like confident, super confident, and like, yeah, of course I'm here.

Empowerment, Heritage, Community Roots

SPEAKER_02 28:24

These are my friends too. Like, I I would say that, and especially as an adult looking back, that's probably what was the coolest about Chloe is that she didn't mind taking me. Whereas, you know, people now they're like, oh my god, I don't want my little sister to come with me. And I'll I'll tell my students, I'm like, are you kidding me? That's like the coolest. Like, take her with you. You guys can share friends, and it's actually really cool. It's actually really fun. I think people these days compartmentalize too much because everybody has their own phone and their own headphones. There's such lack of community within the household now because of technology. So I'll say that was cool. And then Chloe always stood up for herself and was not like fast with boys. So those are the things that like big things, I would say I remembered and like really smart. And again, full circle and not being fast with boys. It has carried over into our professional lives where we're still the same. And Chloe just had a meeting with probably one of the most powerful people in Hollywood, and he was like, I have heard nothing about you guys. He was like, There is no dirt, because there is no dirt to be heard. And he was like, and I asked around, and he's like, You guys are saints and angels, and it's impressive.

SPEAKER_04 29:33

And I'd like to just say, it's it's not uh just to be clear, because everybody's on their own journey, it's not to be judgy if you've had things in your life that you're not proud of, it's more so just that from very young, and it's in my diaries, I really wrote in capital letters my rules. And then I had this whole set of things, uh not that my mom told me to do, not that any adult told me to do. Strictly from my observations of how people are treated and how I wanted to be treated, the first thing was like respect myself. This is so right, righteous. Respect myself. Um, love myself. Don't let these boys get over on you.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

You should you should post that online because I because it is definitely written and it says rules. It's pretty hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Where do you think that comes from? I mean, that it's it's such a powerful personal manifesto for a young person, right?

SPEAKER_04 30:31

I think I think it's because we were like Maud said, maybe because we were around everything, and we were in survival mode, meaning okay, we have these dreams, we don't have any money. Our mom is busy because she's trying to make money for us to eat and to live. Because she was a teacher, but she wasn't the official teacher, she was teacher's assistant. So her pay wasn't of a teacher, and we already know teachers don't get paid a lot.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

So she was getting less pay than she was making like$23,000.

SPEAKER_04 31:04

It was it was$26,000 a year for three children. I remember this.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

Well, when I was in college, it was 28, I remember, and I was like, wow, Columbia's double what my mom makes a year.

SPEAKER_04 31:14

Yeah. And so I look at it and I say, and we would say, okay, so we've got these big dreams. We want to dance, we want to go to Harvard, and all this. And then I'm looking at the circumstances around me, which were absolute chaos in regards to, you know, just violence, a lot of disrespect to women, lots of drug activity, all of these things, all of the pitfalls of uh an inner city. And I I've really had to look at it and go, well, what is our lane gonna be? I take the subway, the bus, I walk to school. So I gotta be smart, I gotta be safe, I gotta be looking around and paying attention. And so I think I also think another thing is having the responsibility of a little sister makes you cognizant of I'm a role model. So what do I want her to do?

SPEAKER_02 32:14

We also have a brother who taught us a lot and was very candid and honest. I mean, he would take me everywhere too, and his guy friends would like talk about girls in crass ways, and then they'd be like, Oh, oh, sorry, little mods here. And my brother would be like, No, speak the way you're gonna speak because she needs to know how men talk, like how men speak about women. And so also hearing all that from a very young age, I would be like, Oh my god, I never want to be one of these girls spoken about like this.

SPEAKER_04 32:47

And it's not to excuse their behavior because they have a lot of work to do.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

And I'll say, our brother is such a he was never the one talking badly. Uh our brother is the everybody who knows our brother loves our brother.

SPEAKER_04 33:03

I think he always made us feel loved, like we weren't seeking a guy to make us feel good about ourselves. He'd be like, you can do it. He was such a has always been, you can do it. It's yours if you want it, go for it. And I think that's like the general theme of our household, I would say, is you can do it, and not fearless doing it to us. But if you step foot in our house, our moms, our grandmas, our houses now, somebody's gonna remind you that you can do it from literally every person in our family, even though our parents didn't stick together, there were all kinds of issues. At the end of the day, the one thing for sure that also our dad taught us is you can do it. You're smart enough. You have the, you have the um, you have it in your spirit to do whatever you imagine.

Recreating Joy: Syncopated Ladies

SPEAKER_02 34:04

And you deserve to do it. You know, as black people, you know, we're taught and conditioned that we don't deserve greatness and we don't deserve success. And, you know, don't belong in the room. Don't belong. And so much of our history is like slavery, slavery, and it's about the slaves. And I'm like, why don't we talk about the evils of the slave masters? Like, we never talk about that. We're always talked about how the slaves couldn't read and couldn't do these things. And so you're like, you know, you're you're taught that you come from a lineage of very strong, resilient people, but not of thriving people. And I think that our parents, our dad and our mom, who is white, empowered us as women and as black women very specifically and very pointedly, which is also um a huge um reason for our success and our confidence, is that we never questioned who we were, where we came from, and our power as individuals.

SPEAKER_04 34:58

Yeah, and and like Maud said, both both of our parents are very smart and and well-readed.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

Highly intelligent.

Living In The Moment And Choice

SPEAKER_04 35:06

And so they always gave us tools, particularly books, to learn about our history in a way that was empowering and that could make us feel proud and make us feel like we're actually standing on the shoulders of greatness, not you know, on folks that were just suffering, but rather of like not just resilient people, but but again, if you know, going back to queens and kings and of their of their own lands. And I think all of that really matters. Um our white mom had us celebrating Kwanzaa with all of our black friends, yeah, like because the principles are so powerful of Kwanzaa. If people don't know, Kwanzaa is an African-American tradition that is practiced near Christmas time, it's right after, it's between Christmas and New Year's. Yeah, and it's every day there's a principle, and each day reminds you of something within in a way it's Kuchin Chagalia, it's self-determination, uh, community, just principles that really are about uplifting and coming together.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

And it's not really about gift giving. You can give gifts, but they have to be something that you make for somebody, and you know, and you go around and you talk. Um, it's a really cool thing that I think it's like affirmations of like again, your purpose.

SPEAKER_04 36:32

And I think that I think that's kind of the general theme, honestly, of this conversation is like your purpose and like learning, trying to find it, understand it. But I think from very young. But Chloe, I never finished answering the question.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Oh, go ahead. Yeah, so this is something too that you'll see often, Lisa is that Chloe will go on and on, and I have to bring her back. Um she said, what differentiates me from you? Uh huh. Well, you never got there. Well, because you cut me off, sisters. Um is that well, like Chloe said, our personalities are actually very different. We just have the same value system, but anybody who knows us are like, y'all could not be more different as personality-wise. Like, I'm louder, I am I thrive being around people and social, and like I don't get drained by social interactions. I could go interact with 2,000 people today and be like fully energized afterwards. But I will say it was one particular instance that really was the defining moment of my uh independence, is in 11th grade, I got offered a scholarship to go study in Brazil for my uh for that summer between junior and senior year. And I had a scholarship to go to Debbie Allen Dance Academy. And I called Miss Allen and I was like, Miss Allen, I got the scholarship to go to Brazil. It's at the same time as Dada, Summer Intensive. You give me a scholarship, I don't want to disrespect you. Like, what should I do? And she said, Honey, you better go and learn how to samba. She said, That's amazing. She said, I'll see you when I get back, I'll always be here for you. Best mentor ever, also, because she wasn't trying to just hold me and going to Brazil because Chloe hadn't been to Brazil yet. I was the first in my family to go to Brazil. This is when you didn't have like iPhones, it was internet cafes, so I could email them like once a week, and I was there for six or seven weeks. And that trip really was like a turning point for myself to develop my own friends and just be around my own, like be mod and not Chloe's little sister. But I also don't mind it. Like when I go places, um, even here, Crystal here at Point Park the other day, she called me Chloe by accident. And then she's like, I'm so sorry. And I was like, I don't care. I was like, it's fine. I was like, you like Chloe, right? She said, yeah. I said, then it doesn't matter. I said, you associate it's associated with something good, it doesn't matter. Um, so it's not like a problem for me because also we're really confident in who each other are. So if Chloe goes somewhere and they're like, Oh, you're Maude's sister, she's not gonna be like, Ugh, I'm Chloe. It's like, oh, great, you like my sister? Awesome. We're already friends, cool. Like it's easy. It's a passport. It is.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Yeah, no, for sure. It's amazing. What something that really, really stands out to me, um, which we could probably go off on for two hours, so we won't, but I just want to share with you because to respond to something that Chloe said about, well, what you're both saying, but what Chloe said specifically about what was imparted to you growing up about your culture, because I really, as a white woman, or as a you know, I really I hear that because even even without the history that your culture has as a as a you know African American, we we tend to get the messaging in general. I see it with parents of of you know, you can do it, you can do better than you can, you can take it to the next level, you can be better, be better than us. We worked hard, but you can work harder. But it sounds like you didn't get that. You got the no, no, no, it's amazing, you know. You you're starting at a very high bar, so keep going. This is good. You don't have to prove it. Like Know what I mean? Like it's a different it's and that's so empowering.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

I actually have never thought about that. Uh that's really an amazing observation because and takeaway because it's true, which is also why I think we don't compete with anybody, because it was never like be better than those other people, be better than uh no, it was or fight, fight to get out of what we're in.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

This is awful. It's your job while you're here on this earth to to speak for us. It wasn't that. It was like, no, honor what went before you and keep going.

Boundaries, Alignment, The Right Team

SPEAKER_04 40:55

Yes. And I think about like the titles on our bookshelf. You know, there was a book by Lorraine Hansbury. It was called To Be Young, Gifted, and Black. That means that somebody way before us already thought that and and was asserting that that was a beautiful thing. And I remember I would always like it's one of those things imprinted in my beige book because they had that thick writing. Yeah. Yes. And it's like the mess, the writing on the wall really matters, like parents. It really matters what you're seeing every day because it truly sticks in your head. Um, and I think, you know, uh it's it's a really good point because then I remember in fifth grade, I was doing a trivia, because like I said, so in regards to just to clarify, I said I'm really competitive and I I truly am. And the mod said we don't compete, and that can sound like a contradiction, but I'll give if if you look at the tug of war, that's a great example. If you also look at a video on my Instagram of us running up a hill, like to which I won. For me, running up the hill is so important. I do it all uh as much as I can. It's a sand hill we were racing. Sandhill. It is the hardest thing, physical. Yes. And every time I reach the top of that hill, I say to myself, I could do it. Like it is a reminder of self, this the ability within to conquer the obstacles within. Because that is a physical, and you know, as you're a woman and you're getting older, you know, everybody tells you, Oh, it's gonna get so hard and your body's not gonna do it. And it's so for me, it's that internal, like I can do this for me. Nobody else, I'm not getting any money from getting to the top of that hill. Uh, nobody gives me a prize. It's that personal knowing that I I can still push past obstacles and reach goals within that that make that are special to me. And I think um it's just for everyone, we all have those things. But when I was in fifth grade, there was a trivia on black history, and I remember I knew it all. And I was so proud that I knew it all because a lot of the kids were learning it. And I'm like, oh yeah, I know Madame CJ Walker. She was one of the first black millionaires in America. You know, like I was I was so proud to know all of these incredible accomplishments of my ancestors. And so I think I never, like Maud said, I never thought of this really the way you're putting it.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

But like, yeah, it was like we're surrounded by black excellence in DC, which is why DC is such a unique place to grow up because you had a spectrum of black people. Of course, you had crackheads because it was the crack epidemic, but then we also, our friends' parents were general counsel for Verizon. And you know, and we met those people through dance, again, dance, because dance brings all types together.

SPEAKER_04 43:59

So that is the most beautiful part. The dance studio. We were on scholarship, and our best friend's mom was a lawyer at Verizon.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Not a lawyer, Chloe, general counsel, right? Very clear because I didn't even realize how big of a deal that was until maybe like five years ago, when one of my friends is general counsel of the 49ers. And I was like, what does that mean exactly? And she told me that I was like, hold on, I think that's what Miss Sherry did back in the day when you didn't see any black people, particularly not black women in the C-suite. In the C-suite, it didn't happen. And so we were surrounded by people showing us and telling us you can do it. I mean my mom.

Lighthearted Rapid Fire

SPEAKER_04 44:39

And the women, the moms of our dance, of our dance company called Taps and Company, and Tony Lombre, they were they believed in the village. They were like, We're village moms. Like that was across the board. Everybody's like, Yeah, we're village moms. We're your mom. We take care of you. They did. They really did. Like our mom was working. Oh, don't worry, I'll take you home. You know, like, oh, you guys didn't eat. Hold on, let me grab some food for everyone. It was, we were, we knew we were backed up, we knew we were were supported by a community that of, oh yes, we all love tap, but it was just so much more.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

And I think going back to the And it was never tit for tat.

SPEAKER_04 45:29

No, never quantified of like who does more, whose parent does more. It was like everybody brings their own unique thing. And when I look at that, and you know, we were talking, Lisa, about like that journey of me in New York and like fighting to be respected and all of that. The irony is that when I created Sync Ladies, and not in the early stages because I didn't realize it, but now retrospect, all I was doing was recreating the best part of my childhood, which was an all-female tap crew that Miss Tony Lombre had started that I got to be a part of, that gave me the most joy as a child. I just recreated that.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

Those women who we danced with as children all volunteered at the DC Jet Fest last week.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Oh another circle. What a surprise! Yeah, this is amazing. This is so amazing. I I have to ask you, I have to ask you what your definition of living in the moment is, given that the podcast is called Stop Time Living the Moment. So who would like to answer? Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Oh, I would say living in the moment. Oh, this is Maud. I have the raspy voice. Um living in the moment is being free to do whatever you feel. So if it's like I feel like going to buy a smoothie now, or I feel like going to take a nap, or I feel like reading a book, or I feel like getting on a flight to Paris, that to me is living in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

I mean, you could translate that to say living in the moment is being a choice, is what I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_04 47:05

Yeah, I would say particularly because our lives are so, you know, vast. We have so many things that we do. Um, I was saying this yesterday. I was choreographing a commercial and I was on set, and the the um producer was like, How do you do it all? And I was like, Because I stay present. I know I have 700 things to do. And and but I in this moment where I am currently with you, I'm giving you and this project me for today. And as soon as this wraps, on to the next moment of what it is that I'm prioritizing in that time. But I think being present, you know, like I get such a massive thrill from like when we get off the call, I'm gonna tell you what I'm gonna do before I have a rehearsal at 10:30 and people will be trickling in. But between that, that like 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

I'm gonna walk around her property and look at what they're doing.

Closing Reflections And Farewell

SPEAKER_04 48:25

Because the fence they're building gives me an absolute thrill. And so I got excited. I woke up this morning, like, they're building the fence, and so I try to just stay, allow myself to be present because I know that I'm gonna be pulled in every direction by nature of all the things I like to do. This is not someone forcing me to do this, this is total choice to overload the plates. But I tried, I I I honestly, and this is definitely um the moment, this this is a moment in my life because this wasn't before. Like Maud said, we do have way more choice, we have way more um um, you know, ownership over our day-to-day, which has been earned because you know, before we we were financially so unstable that we had to take every job, had to do everything. And now I get to have discernment and say, this is fully in alignment, this will bring me joy, I will be able to give my all to this project. I actually just turned down a um a play because I knew I couldn't, not couldn't, I knew I didn't want to multitask it because I wouldn't have been able to be present the way that would honor them and honor my standard of work.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

But I will also say, in addition to that, I still do a lot of things that are not uh on my cup of tea. I do a lot of just to make it clear for everybody listening, I do all of our finances, all of our bookkeeping for our foundation and our all of our businesses and the DC Tat Fest. I run every aspect from the merch to the credit card processing. And I say that it's important for people to know that like we don't just show up like la di-da-da-da. Like I am still doing a lot of the work, but it is for things that we want to do. And so I think that's important to discern. I'm not working for somebody else or working on something that's not, you know, bringing us joy, but it is still a lot of work.

Host’s Stop Time Sign-Off And Book

SPEAKER_04 50:44

Yeah. And I think that uh, you know, in regards to choice, right? I think that with choice comes responsibility. So it's not just like, oh, I'm gonna be just like the star. That was my choice. No, it's like with that platform become comes all the responsibility, all the people that are following your footsteps, all of the people who you must pay, all of the all of the various things that come with it. And I'll just say living from I give to summarize it, living in the moment is being able to just be present and to enjoy the space and time that I have, because, like I said, there are so many diverse experiences I have in a day, in a week, in a month, and being able to so that it doesn't become just a mishmash and like where I lose appreciation. I try to just lock into gratitude for that moment and that time and that hour and like this hour. I'm very thankful for this hour because if we didn't have this hour, we would have been doing something else, right? And not maybe reflecting on the process and journey. And even by you asking that question, it's gonna make me appreciate the moment even more because now I'm even more aware of it.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

Side note, Chloe told Chloe for the record said I talk a lot. Hmm, I think it runs in the family.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

No, no, it's it's it's wonderful. You guys are you guys are brilliant. It's it's so funny. So just just really quickly to um just to rip off what you were saying, Chloe, and maybe this is a separate conversation. What's so so interesting and makes so much sense, and you'll get this because you'll let you understand energy, both of you, and and dance, right? Because when you think about meter and time, and it's called stop time, right? It's that time that where the rhythm of let's say life is going on and where where it's holding the pulse for you, but you can do whatever you want in that space, yes, right? And so I mean that's my whole concept behind the idea of using that as a thing. I mean, it's fun because yeah, I have a tap dance background, if you know, but right, but but as tap dancers, we know that, right? We we know that when when it comes time to solo, everyone's supporting you, you know, the the rhythm of life is underneath you, and it's up to you what you want to say in that space. And and what really dawns on me when I talk to you, and again, we'll probably need to talk about this separately, is that you're to you're speaking to being able to be really focused because it's a value to you, and then to having to create the space and the perspective in a very, very packed schedule that you've chosen, back to Maud's choice, right? And I'd love to dive in deeper with you. And this is where my work as a coach, like I really get excited, working with high performers like you. Like, how do you create that? How do you what about the places where there are spaces? How can you elongate that? And you do that by walking around and looking at the fence because you don't go, I can't do that. I'm too busy. You will allow for that. And that is really fascinating to me.

SPEAKER_04 53:45

I think we both, Maud and I, I think help each other implement the downtime. And again, it's not a lot of downtime, but if I say to her, I can't, I can't talk about that right now, I can't work on that right now, she gets it. Or if she tells me, I don't want to hear about that again right now, I get it. I did this morning. This morning, exactly. So we're able to tell each other when we need space to just be to do nothing.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

Yeah, why or even and also shout out to our amazing manager, Kalina, who also knows like there's a certain job that I have where I volunteer, and Chloe and I, our foundation actually also helps sponsor this program. It's called um Art Saves Lives, and it's in St. Martin. And it's you know, I pay to go basically and teach these amazing children from Underserved Communities Dance for a week. And I will miss paid work, and our manager is like fine with it. She's not like Ma, this is a paid job. She's like, because she knows it is important for my spirit to go and be with these children. We have the best team. Best team.

SPEAKER_04 54:59

I mean, hands down, best team. Most managers, because I have so many friends in the business, are literally just chasing the dollar.

SPEAKER_05 55:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:08

Get the biggest, get the biggest payoff, get the biggest job. And again, going back to purpose, Kalina is so locked in to her personal purpose that aligns with ours. And then that's why it works. She has always led with her gut and always says, Oh, this is wonderful for you ladies. Or it's a lot of money, but I don't think it aligns with your values. Amazing. Say no, thank you and walk away. Easy. That's that's from a paramount movie. She was like, hmm. She said, I nope. She's I said I'm uncomfortable. She said, I'm uncomfortable. She said, Nope, leave it. Amazing. That's amazing, right? Yeah, we're blessed.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

Yeah, it's very rare because so many people are just like, money, money, money, opportunity, opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

No, it's brilliant. All right, I'm gonna uh can you finish this phrase? These are two things to gotta get this in for you. Um, and Maud, why don't you go first?

SPEAKER_02 56:06

Okay, most people think that Maud Arnold is, but the truth is most people think Maud Arnold is um is the uh nicer sister, but the truth is Maud is actually the one who will tell you about yourself and cut you off.

SPEAKER_03 56:34

Yes, love it. Love it.

SPEAKER_04 56:40

Perfect. Chloe, what about you? I was gonna say most people will think that I'm serious, very serious, but I really love to have a good time. Love it.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

Love it. I would say that that's correct.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

Yeah, that's so cool. So, really quick, um, rapid fire. Okay, I'm gonna say what makes you, and then you're gonna say the first thing that comes to your mind. And we can go. Do you want to go like Maud Chloe, Maud Chloe? Or do you want to go? Yep, that's good. Okay. So what makes you hungry?

SPEAKER_02 57:11

Um, smell of croissants.

SPEAKER_04 57:13

Uh uh. Hungry literally. Yes, uh, the desire to achieve. What makes you sad? When people die. When people don't believe in themselves. What inspires you?

SPEAKER_02 57:33

Life and children. I was gonna say people.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

What frustrates you?

SPEAKER_02 57:41

Um liars and people who are not of their word.

SPEAKER_04 57:46

Hatred and and unkindness. What makes you laugh? Everything.

SPEAKER_03 57:56

Um circumstances, circumstances, people and circumstances. Perfect. What makes you angry?

SPEAKER_04 58:05

Um racism. Yeah. When people are disrespectful, all the isms, the isms.

SPEAKER_00 58:14

Yeah, fair enough. And finally, what makes you grateful?

SPEAKER_04 58:18

Waking up every day. Life, life, every component. I always say I'm thankful for everything, everyone, every moment, every opportunity that I get to live. And I always say for my prayers, I just pray for health and life for myself, my family, my community, my friends. Everything else will work for it, we'll earn it, we'll get there. I just need to be for us to be alive and well. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

Maud, what are the top three things that have happened so far today?

SPEAKER_02 58:54

I woke up, I walked to the bathroom on two working legs and feet, and I got the most kind message from a dear friend of mine that it actually made me tear up. It was just a message of gratitude for being a good friend, and it was random.

SPEAKER_00 59:15

Love it. What about you, Chloe? Top three things.

SPEAKER_04 59:19

I got a good night's sleep. Uh, I had my eye mask on, and I woke up and I was like, yes, I'm still on. Because a lot of times. So that was like amazing. I woke up and was like, Yeah, sleep. Because uh Chloe, rapid fire. Sorry, sleep. No, it's not right. This is not rapid fire anymore. Okay. Sleep. I got a good night's sleep. I had a beautiful, um warm shower. And I got to talk to my contractors about where the fence goes. Yeah. I figured the fence was gonna come into that.

SPEAKER_02 59:57

I know the fence is gonna come in.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

Oh my god, ladies, I so appreciate you taking the time to be with me today on the podcast. I really do. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:07

And again, thank you for just being consistent in who you've always been. Yes. Well, just to stay all so connected, like the years don't mean a thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:17

No, they really don't. And and I love that we're sort of in our new our new stage and getting. Let me know how. I can support you in any way. We'll be in touch. All right.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

Thank you so much. Enjoy Quebec and the Lake.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Oh, I will.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

All right, guys. Much love. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. I've been speaking today with Chloe and Maud Arnold. Thanks so much for listening. Stay safe and healthy, everyone. And remember to live in the moment. In music, stop time is that beautiful moment where the band is suspended in rhythmic unison, supporting the soloists to express their individuality. In the moment, I encourage you to take that time and create your own rhythm. Until next time, I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, I invite you to dive deeper into cultivating a life of creative possibilities with my new book, The Places Where There Are Spaces. It's filled with personal stories and insights to help you embrace living in the moment. You can grab your copy by following the link in the show notes or wherever books are sold. Let's keep the conversation going and growing.