Chicago Endurance Sports
Targeted at athletes training with the Chicago Endurance Sports (CES) running program, this podcast is a way for the coaching staff to deliver timely and useful information, education and motivation to CES participants on their training journey.
Chicago Endurance Sports
Your 1st Marathon - Embracing The Training
Attempting anything for the first time can elicit many emotions ranging from apprehension to giddy excitement to cold-sweat terror. On this episode we are talking about the journey to your first marathon. No matter your background or experience, taking on the challenge of running a marathon is a daunting undertaking, especially for first-timers. We thought it would be beneficial to have a conversation at the start of the training season to help you avoid common mistakes, dispel pre-conceptions, and hopefully alleviate some of those first-time jitters.
We hope this conversation aids in setting you up for success as you begin your journey to the start-line of your first marathon.
References:
New Member Orientation
Goal Setting
Welcome to the Chicago Endurance Sports podcast. I am coach Michael and as this episode has been recorded. We're preparing to begin the training cycle for the 2022 fall marathon season. Running a marathon is hard, but training for a marathon is even harder. We thought it would be interesting to have a discussion aimed at those folks training for their first marathon. To hopefully try to dispel some preconceived notions, explore some strategies for navigating the long demanding training season, and set up some realistic expectations. Let's start off by introducing the panel for today's podcast. How about we have everyone introduce themselves, provide a brief running resume, and maybe talk a bit about their first marathon. Sonja, you want to start us out?
Coach Sonja:Hi, I'm Coach Sonja I coach primarily out of Lincoln Square and sometimes out of South Loop. I started with CES in 2007 training for the Chicago marathon as my first marathon. So I have, experienced training with CES as a participant for my first marathon. I went on to become a pacer for CES and trained for a couple more Chicago marathons with CES as a pacer, and then joined the coaching staff in 2013. I've trained a lot of beginning runners, and then moved on to the marathon program as well. I really love working with anyone who's doing their first marathon specifically, anyone who's really looking at that time cutoff and trying to make that, last back of the pack time cutoff. I think it's really fun to have that challenge for yourself and know that anyone who really puts their mind to it can do a marathon. So I was someone who was watching the marathon in 2002, 2003, thinking this is something I can never do. And joining CES has really got me to do a lot of marathons and I really love it and love seeing other people get to cross that finish line too. So I'm looking forward to talking about first marathon experience.
Coach Michael:That's great. Alexia. Do you want to introduce yourself?
Coach Alexia:Hi, my name is Alexia Koelling I coach out of South Loop. I have had sort of two phases to my running career. I started as an adult in college, ran for awhile, stopped after having my first child. And then CES brought me back to running. So started pacing and then coaching with CES. I think my favorite things are really noticing what is like at the very beginning of training and then talking to people at that taper run at the end and having the, remember what a six miles felt like just 12, 15 weeks ago. I really love watching that change and seeing the pride and confidence that people have towards the end of training if training went well. So, I'm excited to talk today about what's going to get you to that fantastic taper and hopefully great first race,
Coach Michael:Pat you're up next.
Pat:Hi everyone. I'm Patrick Grunfeld also known as Pat. I am a pacer at our Lincoln Square location and, I started as a participant with CES well, almost a year ago this month. Actually, and my first marathon was last year, Chicago marathon. I did have a previous life in high school as a middle distance runner. I've run more 5 Ks than I can count, but I was much faster back then, but I'm now much more, mature and really I would say a better runner these days, even though a little slower, but excited to be here, to talk about running your first marathon.
Coach Michael:Pat, I think it's great to have you here to bring your perspective and your experience training with CES for your first marathon. I guess I should introduce myself. As I said before, I'm coach Michael and I am the lead coach at the South Loop location. I consider myself a late in life runner. I really was not athletic all my life. I sort of avoided anything physical. I successfully got out of PE in school quite often. It just wasn't my thing. So happenstance led me to run a half marathon, my very first race ever actually on my 40th birthday. And I eeked by, I was not really trained. I ended up in a medical tent, a little dehydrated at the end. But I did finish and when I got home, I just had this feeling of accomplishment and excitement, and I thought to myself, I wonder what would happen if I actually trained for this event. And so the next year, that's what I did. And in the process, I also signed up for the marathon. So I did my first marathon. I trained for, by myself in 2004. I really didn't know too much about training plans, I sort of made it up as I went along. It was a slow run, but I did finish it. And, obviously I got hooked. So about after a year or so, I hooked up with CES as a participant. Because I used to take the winters off because it was cold and who would want to run in the winter? But I joined winter warriors and I've met some folks there and kind of became connected with the other runners and eventually it became a pacer for CES for several years. And eventually I became a coach. I've been coaching with CES for about 11 years and I have served time, but every Chicago location. Lincoln Square, Old Town. And like I said, now I'm lead of South Loop. So that's a little bit about me. So from a coaching perspective, we have assembled, several coaches with a variety of backgrounds and we have brought in a CES participant to add to the conversation. So I'm expecting, we'll have a really good conversation about training for your first marathon. So people sign up for a marathon for a variety of different reasons. And it's obviously personal to each person. A lot of people would never set up for a marathon. They think the idea of moving on your feet for 26 miles is absurd, which I guess an argument can be made for that. But a lot of people approach the marathon for s myriad of reasons. Some look to challenge themselves, physically some, having a bucket list, a lot of people run for charity or a cause. Often though you sign up for a marathon way in advanced, like for Chicago, you probably had to register and commit back in January, and now it's six months later. And you're like, what did I get myself into? So why you signed for the marathon? We usually refer to as your Why the purpose, what drove you to take on this major challenge? And now that we're actually beginning training it's good to revisit your Why and think about why you've put yourself in this situation and why you've decided to challenge yourself with a 26.2 mile run. To start this part of the discussion maybe we could go around and have the coaches discuss why they decided to run their first marathon
Coach Alexia:So, there's the glib answer and then there's the more complex answer. I was working at a company that would reimburse any race you ran. So it was free. Why not? Which is absolutely a motivation when you are in your early twenties. But the other piece was I had the previous year started running and, was running with a friend. We did our first 5k. It was exhilarating. It was the Ridge run in Beverley. And, you know, we crossed that finish line and I thought I had conquered the world. They handed me my Pepsi, Crystal Clear, totally dating myself. And I was like, I'll give you free stuff and it's so cool. The next year we ran, the Ridge run 10 K. Then we did the half marathon in Hyde Park and said, okay, well, we're just, we're just going longer. Let's just do the marathon. So, I had a friend who was in it to win it, to try it with me and I had, employer who had paid for it for free. And I thought, why not?
Coach Michael:What about you Sonia?
Coach Sonja:Mine was, I was 25 and I decided to start running because, I had been really active, in high school. I wasn't an athlete per se, but I had been a figure skater sort of recreationally. And in college, I got really into rollerblading and hiking, but I didn't really have a lifestyle that was one that I felt was what I wanted to sustain for the rest of my life. So I made a pact with myself to be more fit at 30 than I was at 25, and I started going to the gym, I started running, and then I signed up my new year's resolution for, um, the I turned 25 was actually the one that stuck and I signed up for the Shamrock Shuffle, and I said, I'm going to train for it. And I actually trained for the 8 K and that was my big deal in my new year's resolution that stuck. And that turned me into a runner. I loved it so much I went and signed up for a half marathon later that year. And then the next year, after doing a half marathon, I'm like, you know what, I'm going to try a marathon. And that was 2007. A friend of mine had run the marathon years before and during her taper, her period, she had asked friends who were non-running friends to, to just run one mile with her so that she would take the taper easily, and I ran a mile with her and I was exhausted and she looked at me and she goes, you know what? She goes, you're just running too fast. She goes, if you just slow down, you could run longer. And it was the first time anyone had ever said to me that you could run at different paces. And it had never occurred to me that you could slow down, it's still be running. So that stuck with me and when I started running, I slowed down a little bit and I could run longer and I decided to run the marathon, because I had seen all these other people do it and I wanted to try it too. So 2007
Coach Michael:And Pat, what about you?
Pat:So for me, my running journey, like I said before, started in high school and right at the end of my senior year was when I found out that I had osteoporosis, as a side effect of being a long-term, cancer survivor for, from when I was a child. And my doctors at the time said, which was the science at the time, you need to stop running. I mean, you can run like every now and then, but we think that it could really contribute to your bone density loss like you could break your back or you could break your hip. And, you know, it was a blow to me cause I was really into the middle distance, running 5 Ks and everything like that. But, I was like, you know, for my health so that I can make sure I'm going into my adulthood, I'm going to stop running. But I had also previously sort of made this pact with my training team, who we ran with in high school to run a marathon one day we'd only ever gotten up to half marathon distance. And so that kind of sat in the back of my mind, but I, you know, I decided to give it up. And then a year later my first year of college, the guy who was the, the cross-country captain before I was, passed away from brain cancer. And it was really hard for myself and for the rest of the team. And that kind of stuck with me in the back of my head for a long time. And in the middle of the pandemic I was my 29th birthday March of 2020. And, I decided as I was sitting on the couch, eating chips, I was going to go run a marathon, and I was going to do it, in memory of my friend, Adam. And, I Googled, how do you run a marathon? And I downloaded a PDF of how to get off the couch to make it to a marathon. I only got through the first page of the PDF to get to a 5k before I realized this is a lot of miles and, I'm not going to be able to do some of my own. And at that time I had signed up to run the Chicago marathon through a charity and they let me know, Hey, you can sign up for one of these groups. And one of those groups happened to be CES and I was like, that's cool. They give you an option to do it in person or virtual. I'll do that one cause I don't know how I feel about this whole situation in 2020 and, long story short I loved it, well, I love the, most of it you'll have bad runs, spoiler alert, but, but no, it was, it was a great experience and I stuck with CES through, this past winter, became a pacer and, here I am going into my second marathon season.
Coach Michael:So this was just a sampling, but as you could tell, everyone has their own reason for tackling a marathon. And, everyone has their own Why. But Why is something that intrinsically important to you, a good way to keep you on course. Training is a long season and it's not always a bed of roses. There's going to be challenges. And if you have a why that means something to you. when you're struggling to get out the door or push through an entire workout. To revisit that Why and remember why you started the journey in the first place. I remember reading that on airplane is off course about 90% of the time. And the pilot is basically spending his time fighting the air currents to keep the plane on course. So think of your, Why as your rudder to steer you and keep you on course during the training season.
Coach Alexia:Yeah, I think it's really important to have it, if you do in the beginning and to pause and think about it and reflect that. But it's also okay. If on day one and day two, you don't know it. I think what we're encouraging or would encourage is that you start to think about it. What are you liking? What is motivating you? and you know, your, why might become those people that you're running with every week and that you like them and like that they were talking about the show, they were watching the book they were reading and that's okay, too. So if you have something that is, you know, deep in your soul that you can tap into, that's great. And if you don't, I think what we're encouraging is that you start to cultivate it over the course of the time that you're going through training.
Pat:I think just from my perspective going into my first marathon is the farthest I'd ever run, cause you know, within training you only get up to 20 miles. So, you think to yourself, wow, that's an extra 6.2 miles we're going to see how this goes, but definitely, you know, you've got all of your training and your preparation and that gets you through the first half, the first 15 or 16 miles. And then around that time is when the, why becomes really important because you may be having a good race. You may be having a bad race like I was, but either way you really. I have to dig deep at that point to be able to motivate yourself to get to the finish line, to hit that time that you want to hit, et cetera. So that's, that's what I would add.
Coach Michael:Some really great points there. I think it's important to note that your Why is related a lot to goals. And about a year ago, we did a podcast episode completely about goals. What they are, how to set them, how to succeed in following them. So that's something I would really encourage everyone to listen to. I spoke to one of our coaches at the time, who's also a psychologist, so she also able to speak to it from a sports psychology standpoint as well. And if you don't have a solid Why or purpose you're running maybe working on some goals. Some goals for your training and for your race can help you in the same way by keeping you on track and helping you out during the rough times during the long training session. Speaking of the long training session, which I've mentioned several times, and I don't mean to scare anyone. I'm just kind of pointed out to reality that our training schedule is going to take up most of your summer. But I'd like to talk about how we fit training into our daily lives. None of us are professional athletes, we're not getting paid to train. So we need to figure out how to take this time consuming hobby and make it fit into our lives so we can get in the work we need to be prepared, but still co-exist with our day to day. So someone want to get us started with that.
Coach Sonja:One of my strategies is the first thing I do is look at my calendar. And I look at the training plan against my calendar, because there's just so many things that can come up during the course of training. And I want to know if I have any big commitments that might conflict with it. Family commitments, friend commitments, weddings, baby showers, family vacations. And that's something that I think, especially during the first training period, people can have a hard time saying no to things. And there are some things that you may have to say no to, or say to people, you know, I may be a little late to this, or Hey, maybe I can't help you set up for this because I'm going to be running 12 miles that day. So I think knowing what your calendar looks like, and what commitments you already have on the calendar really helps you train your, or set up your training program rather than being surprised when you're getting toward the end of your training program and higher mileage. And you're going, oh my gosh, how am I going fit this in this weekend and trying to scramble at the end. You don't have to figure every single day out. I think that's overwhelming, but just having an idea of the big things, and then that's what coaches are here for is to help you strategize around those big ideas and big things.
Coach Alexia:I think that's really great you know, some of the other things that I think are helpful is, not having your marathon training, being a secret. I do have certain running friends that they don't want to tell anyone in case something doesn't go, right and so they keep it all to themselves. But if you tell the people you care about and they care about you, this is a thing I'm doing, and this is important to me. People are usually more than happy to say, okay, well, great we'll have dinner at five, so you can be home and in bed in time. You know, people are willing to have that senior special with you, so you can have the rest that you need and to support you in that way. So even if they're not runners, A lot of good friends and family are going to help you do that. So just telling them that this is happening, and this is important to you, is definitely something that we can start to get that support from your non-running network. The other thing is, really the more you start to socialize with other runners, the more that that becomes part of your socialization. This is a little tangential to marathon training, but I will tell you that it was running and runners that got me through the pandemic, you know, knowing that I could meet people and run and chat and check in with them outdoors in a safe space, and then go on with our days and nights in isolation. You know, that socialization was really valuable to me. And that also starts to happen over the course of the training, right? These people and the interactions that you have with fellow runners really starts to fulfill some of those human connection needs that some of us have. And then the last thing that I'm, I would say is, Sonja, I think did a really smart thing and certain think about how to outline it, but things happen, that work trip that you weren't expecting comes up. And thinking about how you continue to build into your training, talking with a coach can definitely help. You know, maybe you need to break runs into shorter morning and evening run so that you can still get some things going in, or maybe you just have to do, some of the mileage, but not all of the mileage that, we as coaches can help you think through a strategy for that. This is not an all or nothing game. It is best if we can stick to the plan, but things happen and knowing how to adjust or working with people to adjust, keeps you going and gets you ready for that next big run.
Pat:Yeah, for me, I'm kind of a recluse. So the socialization and telling people, no was not difficult. I'm a professional at that. I can get out of many things. Nearly got out of attending my own wedding. I was like, he could just put a little cardboard guy there and I can record it and you can. But, it was really, for me, I'm a very regimented person because I have mental health problems so I have to be, based on how my brain works. And so really just getting my run-in wherever I was and sticking to the set days. Maybe not the same time or anything like that, because I also work in logistics. So during the pandemic, I was working 60 or 70 hours a week. So if you saw me at 9:00 PM running down the road, that was definitely me. But it, it was just trying to get those runs in on the scheduled days. And, you know, no matter where I was, if I was on vacation, the second long run that we did, that was just seven miles. I was in Evergreen, Colorado at 7,000 feet. I had no experience running at elevation, pouring down rain and 30 degrees it was amazing, and I definitely didn't almost give up running right then. But it really did help to just stick to that schedule for me mentally and I think it helped with me feeling prepared, for the mileage to come as well.
Coach Michael:So I'm a single guy with no family obligations or commitments. But Alexia I know you're a mom, and also, I know you've had to travel for work. And I'm wondering if you have any specific hints in regards to those areas.
Coach Alexia:So I think there's a couple of things we're going to sound like repeating of things that I've said, but my family knows when I am training for something that this is a thing I'm doing, they're not runners. They don't fully understand it, but they know that that it's important to me. I am not a morning person by nature, although most of my friends and family think that's funny. But you know, I get up at four 30 on Tuesdays and Thursdays to meet some other crazy, willing to get up that early people to do my runs so that I can be home in time to get my kids up and take them to the bus stop. You know, that's what ended up working for our family to get things in. So there are things where there are going to be, especially if you are dealing with other people like family members, you're going to have to make some compromises. Would I prefer to run at 6: 30, yes. Do I prefer to get the run in? Yes. So, that's a piece that I had to think about.Travel is a challenging one and again, I think talking to coaches, talking to others and starting to make strategies, it was a really hard thing for me to realize the schedule says six. There's no time for me to get six and you know what? I can do three. So I'm going to get those three in and it keeps me on track. Some of those compromises are really important. So I think that's one thing. And the other thing too, is I am not a treadmill runner. I hate it. I hate it, I hate it, hate it. I can't tell you how many times I hate it, but I have made so many games, especially if I've only got time for a three mile run where you start that treadmill going on a piece that feels painfully slow and then every. 10th of a mile, you click it up a 10th of a mile and speed in the end, you're flying across the treadmill and you're just faster than you've ever been before. ways to play games. Right? So there's lots of things you can do, even if it's not your ideal situation, but that keeps you on track so that when you come back together with people and you are there for the long run that you're not behind and you're able to just catch up with everyone else.
Coach Michael:Once again, let's say talk to your coaches. We've got so many different coaches with such various backgrounds and experiences I'm sure there'll be someone who could share a similar situation and make some suggestions that could really help you out. So to move on, I'd like to talk a little bit about the training plan which is a schedule of all your workouts mapped out for the season in calendar form. At the start of the season, you'll be assigned a training schedule from a coach based on your current level of fitness. We use an online tool called Training Peaks. So you could easily follow your training plan day to day. We discuss in detail how plans are designed and how they're assigned in a podcast episode called New Member Orientation which is worth checking out. So when you look at your schedule, you'll notice pretty much every day is accounted for. Some will be rest days, but you'll see different types of workouts, different types of runs listed. And at first glance, it might seem overwhelming. Pat, I'm sort of curious what your reaction was when you first received your training plan.
Pat:I was pretty surprised at how few miles there were because even when I was running middle distance, and in high school, we would do 40 to 50 miles a week, probably because we were young and insane and we liked to run fast spry. But it was interesting to see the way that it was planned out the way that there was certain mileage on certain days, how we were really ramping into that long run on the weekends and, the cadence to it all really because you, look at it on paper and you're like, oh yeah, 45 minutes. That's not so hard. It's harder after you've done seven or eight miles two days before and then you start to understand, okay. So in a way, some of the runs, you're recovering still while you're running. And so you start to really understand why, you know, the pace is listed as slow, comfortable pace, and you start to figure out what that means and you figure out what happens if you don't do that on that run. And then you try to go do a speed workout and then you try to go do a long run. You start to figure out, okay. Now I understand. And, the other thing I would say is, cross training is something that I knew of from when I was in high school, we did cross training, as part of our training, but it was, let's go into the pool and swim around for a bit and that was cross-training. Whereas this is really focusing on building your base, right. You're which is a weird term, if you don't know what it means, but essentially just your core so that you can really get through a lot of those longer mileage runs and also prevent injury. And I think that was something that I, that it probably took me about two or three months to learn, but once I figured it out, I was like, okay, now I know the different things I should do cross training wise and what I maybe shouldn't do on those days, and was able to kind of move forward from there.
Coach Sonja:I was thinking about my own experiences as a participant when I first looked at my training plan as well, and especially as I moved into my second or third marathon, and now as a coach, and I think I get a lot of questions about like, well, why do you have a running on this day? Why are we running the day before a long run? why are we resting on this day? And I think that the best thing that runners can do is when you have those questions, bring them to training. I'm asked to poach about them because there is a logic behind these training plans and we can help you understand why you're doing what you're doing. We didn't just decide that you needed this many runs a week and throw them in and like mix them up across training and like, okay, here you go. There's a reason that these plans are designed the way they are. There's a reason that you're running the day before a long run. There's a reason you're resting the day after a long run and I think if you start to have these questions, he tried to do them all at the beginning. It's a lot, and it can be overwhelming, but as the season progresses and you start to go, you know, I, I really just don't want to run the day before I'm doing my long run because it's tiring. Why do I have to do this? You know, there's a reason that it's great to run on tired legs for your long run. So we'll happily tell you why this is great to help you train for the marathon. So bring that to training on that long run day. And, that gives us something to talk about while we're doing 10 miles. So that's fantastic so just really, again, just trust the training plan and ask the coaches when you have questions about it.
Coach Michael:Wow, you guys did an excellent job of covering a lot of ground right there and picking up from where Sonja said trust your training, trust the process. I kind of want to pick up on because we are a group training program, people come to us from different perspective, some. I have been running regularly, some are newer runners, some are just kind of casual runners. I've gotten to a habit with participants when they approach you with concerns and always approach your coach if you do have concerns. But what I like to tell them is give it three weeks. Try your best to follow your assigned schedule faithfully for three weeks. And after that period of time, if It's either too challenging or not challenging enough, come speak to myself or another coach. And we could see about either making changes to your schedule or some tweaks. So you are getting out of the program, what you need to get out of the program. But think of it long-term not just day by day and week by week.
Pat:Think for me, one thing that clicked for me. Yeah. It was probably just because I was, I had no sort of preconceptions coming in. Cause it'd been so long since I was a serious runner, you should figure out what your pace is and you know, if you, if you used to run and you're picking it back up after a long time, not running, don't feel bad. If your pace now is slower than the pace that you used to do. Like I would routinely when I was young, go out and run 70 sevens. Right. Just easily, no sweat. Now that I'm older, I run 11 minute miles and I'm okay with that. Cause it's, it's a lot of miles and it's also a lot of runs, cause you know, it may only be four runs a week and you look at it on paper and you're like, oh, that's not too many, but you just add that up week after week and they get longer. It certainly a challenge and so that's, one thing that I would say Not only trust the process, if you're feeling apprehensive, but also trust the process, if you're getting back into the swing of things, if you're scaling up your distance, if you're going from a half marathon to a full marathon, it's, it's a whole different kettle of fish. Really just believing in what the coaches are instructing and the way that the plan is.
Coach Michael:Not all miles are created equal. Pat had a really good example about when he ran it altitude and things were a lot harder for him. There's a difference between running and 9 30 pace on a flat course on a 45 degree day with the wind behind you or in running a nine 30 pace uphill in 95 degree heat and heavy humidity. It's the same pace, but the effort level and the stress in your body is completely different. Our body doesn't have a speedometer, so it really has no numeric reference to how fast we're going. It doesn't have an odometer it doesn't really know how far we're going. What your body knows is effort. And the stress on your body is going to vary day to day, depending on conditions, also based on things like if you had a tough day at work, If the kids kept you up all night. If you're a little under the weather. So take that into consideration, go ahead and use the metrics, but don't let them define you as an athlete, or as the only way to define your fitness.
Pat:Yeah. And just, to quickly touch on that, I had a, vacation planned and kind of like the middle of the summer. So it was like when our 11 mile, or it was, I was in new Orleans in August. It was about 95 degrees and 85% humidity. I like Alexia also hate treadmills. I frequently get injured on them, but, you have to be smart about your training too, because if you're not climatized to where you are on vacation, it's probably better for you to do longer mileage on a treadmill, no matter how boring it is, because you know, it's better for you to be healthy coming out of that workout. Cause that's what it is. It's a workout, even though it's long run, it's kind of like your goal for the week. It's still a workout and it didn't, you still have more training to go. So you want to make sure that you're being smart about the way that you're training.
Coach Alexia:I was going to say, I think Pat's making, he's made two points that I think are worth reinforcing, which is about how you think about these plans. These are not races every weekend. This is not, burn yourself out in week three and then you just can't go past it. Working with yourself and the coaches to find that pace that's right for you so you can do that next workout. Figuring out early in the season, what that pace for you is, and separating it from any preconceived notions you have and any ego that you have so that you can find that, pace that's going to allow you to go the distance with the plan. So part of that trusting the plan is not only doing all the pieces that are in it, but doing it to the effort level that's recommended. So, if they say this is an easy run, easy runs are the hardest thing for people because it's like, oh, it felt too easy. Right? It should It said the word easy on it. I love what pat said that you're recovering while you're running. Right so there are intentional pieces to it. So the plan is not just doing the type of workout every day, but also thinking about why we're asking you to do that and then choosing the right pace and the right effort level that lets you live into that day that you are doing it.
Coach Sonja:I think going off of that, I remember reading a book a while ago about endurance exercises. And the author had said that she always stops her workout right before she thinks that she would be tired. So like she, she makes sure that she wants to do it again the next day. And you should always go through your workouts wanting to do it again the next day. Now there might be days where you don't want to, because your brain is just fried or your legs are tired, or, you know, we all have bad runs, Pat pointed that out earlier, but for the most part, these workouts are really designed that you should always be able to give a little bit more. You should always be able to do a little bit more. And so if you leave these workouts, they can, like, I don't know if I worked out quite hard enough for the most part that's okay this is how that fence designed we're doing this literally for the long run, marathons are long, and we're making sure that we can get through the whole marathon. Along with that, I think there's a lot of urge that if you miss a run, you want to catch up. And so I've heard of athletes say, well, I missed a run on Wednesday. So I ran twice the distance on the next run and you don't ever need to make up a run. Just let it go follow Frozen. Just let it go. if you've missed a run, you can just go onto the next thing on your training plan. Don't try to make anything up, don't try to get ahead of the game. It's not going to do you any good to say, well, I feel great today. I just added two miles stick to the plan. Trust the plan. Don't make things up. Don't add more on.
Coach Michael:All great stuff, touching on a few points. Addressing what Alexia said about doing the workouts as they're intended. I talked about Training Peaks earlier is the tool which will hold your training schedule. Within Training Peaks for every workout, there'll be a clear, concise description of how to do the workout, at what level to perform it at, how long it should be, your warm up your cool-down. So everything's going to be spelled out for you nice and clear. And Sonia had some good points about not overdoing things and kind of keeping in your lane. The way the program is designed is a progression. So we're gonna start kind of slow and gradually build up. So you're not going to be asked to do more than you're prepared to do. You'll also notice that we'll be building mileage over a period of about three weeks or so. And then what we do is have what's called a cutback week. Where we reduce our mileage and our effort for the week to allow our bodies to recover for our next build and that'll sequence through the entire season.
Pat:I think the other thing is it's important, you know, if it's your first marathon to know that it's okay to ask for help. For me that was going to one of our coaches, Coach Kerl and saying. I am not getting all the way through the long runs on Sunday. It had happened one time. Then I made it through a couple that had happened again, and I talked to them about it and I said, you know, I think I'm doing the correct pace. I'm following the schedule during the week. I'm not sure what's going on. And he said, it's been a really hot summer, how do you feel after your Saturday runs? And I was saying, you know, felt a little tired. I felt like I was able to turn around by Sunday. And he gave me the advice of adjusting some of those Saturday runs to about 80% of the time. I was out there instead of the full 100% and said see how that helps you with those Sunday runs. And that was kind of what I needed to be able to recalibrate and to have a successful season. And so it's okay to say, I you're going to be tired certainly throughout the process many times, but it's okay to say I feel like I'm too tired or I feel like there's something going on. That's preventing me from doing these long runs correctly.
Coach Michael:That's a great message. And don't wait till the last minute to ask for help. If, you know, for example, that you're going to go on vacation for a week with the family in July or you have some other obligation and you're not going to get your workouts in. The sooner you could talk to a coach the sooner they can map things out to the big picture to make sure that you have the preparation you need. So I think we've made it pretty clear that marathon preparation is more than a single workout, it's the sum of its parts, it's following the program, it's being consistent. But still, when people think about preparing for the marathon, I think they focus heavily on the longer runs. And I'm pretty sure most people when they receive their training schedule for the season, the first thing they're going to do is open it up and look at the weekends to see the progression of long runs over the weeks and maybe circle a 20 miler as this big mystical monolith. And sure doing long distance training as part of the preparation for marathon day is important. But I also tend to think there's an overemphasis or over importance put on the long run. And I'd like to talk a little bit about that.
Coach Alexia:I have a story about that one that was not with CES, so it's not CES people, but I was pacing. This is now nearly 20 years ago. I was pacing and I had people with exactly that mentality. They were big, strong strapping young men who just felt like they could come out for the weekend and be great. And it was really interesting to watch over the course of the season. People just dropping off. We had kind of a core team that was understanding the bigger picture and doing those midweeks and, you know, with humility to those long runs. And then we had the people who are like, I did last 12 milers. I'm going to be great for the 14 miler. And, there will come a point in time for most people where you might be fine for 10, you might be fine for 12. You might be fine for 14, but there will be that point where you just need everything else that can support you. so I think, you know, if you talk to, you know, it doesn't even have to be the coaches, just talk to anybody who's been kind of around the block and around runners, they will tell you stories of people who just at some point in the training had to peel off because they got injured or they just didn't have the mental stamina or, or, or, or, or, and really it is thinking about the culmination of strength, you know, easy run, tempo runs all of those things together with your long runs that are going to get people to that finish line. And I think one of the pieces that I appreciate Michael says to our folks all the time, so I think everyone is going to hear it. And I'll just say it again if you have a bad 20 miler it's okay. It's okay. I will tell you, I don't think I've, I'm trying to remember how many marathons I've run. I think it's like 18 or 19. I don't think I've ever had a good 18 miler. It is my nemesis. I don't like the 18 mile run. It always goes poorly. If I believe that, you know, if I don't have a good 18 miler, I wasn't going to do it. I would never run a marathon again. A portion of people are going to have a not great 20 miler. It does not mean you're not going to have a great marathon. You know, it is one of many runs. If you do everything along the way, Then it's just one of many rounds. There's one of 18 weeks worth of runs. And you can learn from what went wrong on that 20 miler. Is it what you ate? Is it what you wore? Is it how you slept? Is it that you ran too much the week before, too hard? Did you try and make up miles and you didn't have the gas in the tank, you know, learn from whatever it was that made that 20 mile ago badly have the consistency for the rest of it. And then you're going to have a great run.
Coach Sonja:I'm just going to piggyback on that and say that I think it's good luck to have a bad, long run during the training program. I think everyone should have at least one bad long run because exactly what Alexia said you learned from it. You don't want your marathon to be your bad long run. Now, if you don't have a bad, long run, that's fine. You're still get through the marathon. It's great. But I think that there's always that chance to learn from things you learn, you know, oh my shoe rubbed I won't wear those socks during the marathon. I didn't take enough nutrition, all these things that you get a chance to practice during the long runs. Each long run is a dress rehearsal for the marathon and treating it like that. Treating it as a chance to see what works for you. What doesn't work for you, experimenting with different ways of eating or getting nutrition. You don't need to know it all now. We'll talk about this all through the training. If you have that all or nothing attitude that every run has to be good, that's going to put you in a state where you get too nervous about the marathon to even do it. So it's great just to have that attitude of, you know, what it was bad. I learned from it. The other thing I will say is I think almost every runner cries at some point during a long run or race either happy tears, sad tears, frustrated tears. I have coached so many runners who say, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I'm about to cry. I'm trying not to cry. I have cried at so many races. Everyone, every runner I know has cried at a race or in a training run. Running is a really emotional thing. It brings out so much in us, especially if, to go back to the very beginning, you have your why and you think about your Why, that can cause a lot of emotions and you're going through a lot. So it is totally okay to cry during the long run, embrace it. Do it you'll feel better.
Coach Alexia:That's probably why everyone hates me at mile 21 where I'm like joke mile, we were in there wise. And I'm like, did you hear the one about.
Pat:No, it's so true, and I mean I'll say this. And you know, for those first time marathoners who are listening to this podcast out there, this isn't you, but not every single person who starts the training with you is going to be there at the end of the training, whether that is out of their control and they get an injury, or whether that is that they decide that this is not for them. Don't let that scare you. Like I, I remember. The first couple of runs I was running with another participant, we had a really good rapport, but they were very anxious about the whole process. And, you know, really just like not sure that they could do this. And they ultimately did drop out of the program, but it's important to still know that this is a sport where it's it's you against you. Right. And that's it like everyone and the Lincoln Square team has made me look bad at one time or another. And I have made people look bad, mostly it's speed workouts. Cause I used to be a middle distance runner, but it's true. It's not a popularity contest. We all have a lot of love for each other. It's really just, everybody's trying to get in their own workout. Everyone is, within their own space, like some people trained over the winter, some did not, and that's okay. You really just need to run your race, run your workout. To stick with quotes I learned about these things called running mantras in runner's world magazine. And one of them that I saw that I thought was really good is forward is a good pace, which is true because there's going to be some days where you're falling apart and you ate Popeye's chicken the night before. Cause you don't know anything about nutrition and you're like, I am on mile six of 12 and I may die. You won't die. I promise, but it's something where it's really about getting in the mindset of, I can do this and, and ultimately just putting one foot in front of the other.
Coach Michael:I'll say it once again training me for a marathon is hard. I'm not saying that to scare anyone away. This is why we're dedicating 18 or 19 weeks of training for it. Let me amend that training for a marathon is hard, if you don't put in the work. I think training for a marathon is a perfect metaphor for you, get out what you put in. And if you get in and do the work, follow the process, chances are you'll have a great experience. You can definitely do this. I guarantee you, you can do this
Coach Alexia:So I want to jump in because something that both, both of you were saying really is important to me, which is understanding and learning. What motivates yourself. This is I think fascinating. It's a little poll that I give to every group I run with midway through the season. But what I'm suggesting here at the beginning is start to listen to what, what makes you go, oh yeah, I can do this and what makes you say, oh, no, forget it. I'm done. And the example I throw out is, you know, distance, if you're a run walker cycles, how many more run walk cycles do we have or time? Right. I learned this very much, the hard way when I was running, with my first running partner, she was motivated by time. She could say only 30 minutes. You can do anything for 30 minutes,and I would think oh my God you want me to do this for 30 more minutes? That is impossible. And for me, if you said a 5k, you've done a 5k before just a 5 K left. That made sense to me, but for her, that was overwhelming. So one of the tips and tricks that I think is so important is know what motivates you and what de-motivates you and translate it because someone is going to be standing there or someone's going to be in your group and say, don't worry, only five miles left. And you're going to say, are you kidding? But if you can translate that to something that works for you, you can, you can kind of pull yourself out of that. De-motivation get it into your own motivation and go. I personally love run-walk cycles because you can count those down faster, right? Only six more cycles, five more cycles, four more cycles. It's quick or I'll translate into landmarks. Someone says certain amount of miles. I look up, I say, okay, I'm going to have to go back. You know, it's past this landmark, past that landmark under this bridge, over that bridge up the hill and we're done, I can translate it, it becomes something that I can work with and manage because this, I think, you know, we're going to say it probably 20 times, by the time we're done. There's so much about this game. That's mental. You want to be keenly aware of what's going on in your physical body, that you're not hurting yourself, but there is so much where it's mental and you've got to figure out what you can tap into. It could be your why it could be what, what you want to hear. That's going to get you to say to yourself, I can do this. Cause it's really easy to get completely knocked off your own course. If somebody says something that's de-motivating to you. Just throwing in the mental game piece. That's probably not where you're going.
Coach Michael:Actually, it gives me the opportunity to discuss something else which certainly requires motivation and that is doing the workouts that we don't necessarily enjoy doing. Some people don't like to do Hills, some people hate intervals. Some people don't like to do upper body work. Everyone has their nemesis. It's sort of human nature to be drawn to the things we're good at and try to avoid things that we don't like, or we're not good at. So runners love to run that's why they're runners. And the schedule is going to have some other components, like maybe some cross training, some stretching, some strength work. And if you're really not good at it, or it exposes a weakness, you tend to shy away from it. But as Alexia pointed out, if you could find a little games or motivation or ways to make some of the more uncomfortable situations, more palatable it'll help you get to those workouts. And the other thing about those workouts are if they are challenging or they are hard that's likely because they're exposing a weakness you have either a muscle weakness or imbalance, or something that you need to be focusing on any ways. So, if you could find the motivation that will get you through those workouts and maybe alleviate or prevent you from shying away from doing some of those workouts that would be great.
Coach Alexia:So I'll have one more motivational thing and then I'll let it go because I've literally heard it in my head. My worst marathon ever. It was 39 degrees and raining, which is a really horrid combination. Wind off the lake got hit by waves. Cause we were on the lake front for part of it. I was miserable. I hated it. I questioned everything about running and there was this guy who, and it was a very small race with a very small crowd. And there was a guy who literally looked at each of us as we went by and said, you can do it. He wasn't shouting at us. He just looked at us and was like, you can do it. And it meant so much to me. And so literally when I think, oh no, this isn't possible. I hear him. And I think you can do it. So anytime, if I'm trying to motivate someone for me, it's you can do it because it matters to me. Right. That phrase you can do. It matters to me. And you know, some people want to have it be personal. I can do it. For me, that's not it. I say you can do it. And I think of that guy looking me in the eye and saying, oh yeah, even though you have 10 more miles in the rain and the wind, you can do it. And, it matters. So again, finding those things you can dig into, whether it's your personal, Why, whether it's a mantra, whether it's a random guy who looked me in the eye and told me I could do it, you know, remembering those things gonna be useful to you over the course of the training.
Coach Sonja:I was going to say, I think the follow that storing those things up when you hear them now, when you think of them, you know, write them down, put it on your refrigerator, put it on a bulletin board somewhere. Remember it. Like Alexia. I was, I did a race this weekend and. There was a small scout who was at mile five of a 10 K. And she looked at us and she that's going, you have energy inside you let it out. And I kept thinking, you know, yeah, I do have more energy inside and I just need to let it out because I was starting to kind of be like, oh, I don't know if I I'm, I'm not really in the mood right now. And that's something now I stored up to use in future races. So keeping those things in mind, putting it somewhere where you'll see it for me really helps motivate me throughout the marathon season.
Coach Michael:Yeah, I love collecting little victories that I can call upon. During my runs where I may be having a little difficulty or I'm struggling, I could think back to. Like Alexia was saying, maybe you're running through terrible weather or you're pushing through a really miserable time. And knowing that you survive that and your current situation is no worse, likely better than that. So part of putting into hard workouts is having them as part of your mental toolbox So one major thing about training with CES that we haven't addressed yet is just the idea of training as a group or with a group. You know what you get from the group, the strength you get, the motivation you get, all the benefits that come along with being involved with a group of other runners with the same goal.
Coach Alexia:I'll throw in a couple different things because for me, I don't want to use my own personal experience. I think, there's a few things. I will start with the most woo, which is, I trained once with a guy who was not a talker. And I learned to love hearing the footfall. There was something really meditative to know that I wasn't alone, that I, this guy was next to me. And just to listen to our footfalls and you kind of get in sync with people as you're running. so that was just it became incredibly beautiful and it was still way easier than going by. I am a talker. I love hearing stories. The other thing I love about running and is that, 16 miles is sorta like two glasses of wine. You start to learn a lot about people and people don't hold back. And so, it's sort of a really wonderful thing and you start to bond with people in a different way at those really large mileages. So I think there is that piece that personally, I've loved, I think when you get into great conversation, mileage passes. I didn't know a thing about soccer and there was a guy who was a devoted soccer guy in one of my groups. And we, over the course of a couple runs learned basically all the rules of soccer. And it was fascinating. I run with a guy who was a professor of Eastern philosophy. I learned things I never would have learned and miles flew by. So I think there is the solidarity piece. Um, there's the knowing like with my silent runner, knowing that he was going to be there, right? So the accountability of showing up for him and he showed up for me. There's what you can learn from people, the bonding that you can have. I think there's so many pieces and unlike Pat, I really enjoy, some of those pieces. So I think even if you are, and maybe Pat, you can talk about, you know, if you are more on the introverted side, what you can get from the group, I think there's a full range of benefits for people.
Pat:Yeah, for me it was, it was a strange thing to find out about myself throughout the process of running with the group, because I am very introverted. I am very averse to small talk, but like you said, when you're in a group of endurance athletes and people who are without their own knowledge becoming endurance athletes, it's something where you can really be very real, and very authentic. And that's the type of conversations that I like to have. And I found a lot of that within those long runs, and, I found a lot of motivation in other people throughout the process. One in particular was coach Kelly, who was one of our coaches that at, Lincoln Square, she was, pregnant with the child, during the last marathon training season and was still doing the runs with us. And I was like, this is the most inspirational thing ever coach Kelly's out here, like wonder woman. And I'm like, thinking about stopping. All right, well, I'm just going to keep going because she is amazing. And so if she can do it, I can do it. We're going to get through this together. And it's really about those times when you're starting to doubt yourself, that is when the group comes together and it's also in, in a lot of ways, like, an anonymous club, if you will, because I don't know most people's last name. I know more now that I'm a pacer, but it's still something where it's like, you know, if I know you're Michael, like I know you as Michael, I don't know what your last name is, but I know we're friends and I know we come on these long runs together and we do these workouts and, That was really a kind of inspiration for me. And kind of the thing that I thought to bring to the group since I'm not much of a conversationalist, I wanted to kind of take inspiration from one of my passions of wrestling. And I sort of pitched myself as the hardcore legend, Mick Foley, who who's one of my heroes. So I was like, I don't care what the conditions are. It can be pouring down rain. Like we're watching to see if there's lightning, I'm going to be there and everyone will know that I'm going to be there. And so maybe that will motivate someone else to be there as well, and so that was kind of, my almost non conversational way of trying to contribute something to the group. And you just are able to meet people where they are in that sense.
Coach Michael:And I think that bonding leads to accountability. You know, the weather may not be great. It's going to be rainy out that day or incredibly hot and humid. And I'm going to show up, so you better show up or there's half mile repeats tomorrow and I really don't want to do them, but if I'm going to suffer through them, you're going to suffer through them with me. I think that accountability really helps you get through some of those tough times because there's going to be tough times.
Pat:And that's an important point because you think to yourself when you sign up for the marathon in January or in March, like I did, you're like, oh, October, whew, that's going to be really cold. And, this is going to be great marathon running weather. It's not always going to be that way. It certainly wasn't last year. So it's good to get those long runs in, in the heat when you're like, why am I doing this? I should move to Alaska. It's really good to get those training runs in because you never know what type of conditions you're going to get for that marathon. And it's something you can't control, which is important to remember. And I had to kind of tell myself that going into the race as well, but it's just trust the training and prepare yourself for, no matter what that conditions are going to be, you've trained through it. You're going to be fine.
Coach Sonja:I think that we all have an idea in our head of what our pace is and it's not always accurate because we don't know what other people's paces are. There's really a home for everyone in the groups. Talk to the coaches. If you're unsure of where you should be. We'll help you find a group where you're comfortable. You really want to be in a group where you can talk, so you can have all these conversations. We're not going to leave anyone behind. So that's, I think really important to know. And I think one of the other things I wanted to mention was that I am someone who I'm pretty outgoing once I get comfortable in a group, but I am very shy going into a new group and it's okay to just sort of sit back, observe. Figure out, even go between groups for the first couple of weeks, figure out where you're most comfortable, try out a different pace group, you know, run beside someone new. Maybe you have one person who you're really comfortable running beside maybe someone else who you'd want to try, you know, a different running partner, mix it up. That's all fine. Just, you know, if you run with a group and it feels too fast, you don't have to run with that group again. Next week you can drop back a pace group. If you're not sure if there's going to be a pace group that is at your pace and slow enough, just talk to one of us, we can help you find that pace group. So don't worry about where you're going to fit in. We'll help you find the place.
Coach Alexia:Yeah, I think that's really beautifully said. I think the piece that I would add is that anxiety has mental stress you don't have to carry. Those expectations are much more in your own head than anywhere else. Finding that right pace group is going to help, but guess what? Everybody is going to fall behind one week because they're having a bad week and that's okay. And, you know, rather than having it be not only the physical challenge, but the mental challenge of it, you just tell your pacer, Hey, I'm not feeling great. I'm going to drop to the next group. And the pacer says, great, good to know if a coach is there, they'll relay make sure that the next piece of group was there to catch you and we move on and it's okay. So, as much as possible let the bad days just be the bad days and you know, why were they bad? What were the triggers for them being bad? So you can adjust from it, but not carrying any of that stress because even though the conversation in the group that you're in was the best ever, that next group, falling right behind you is probably having a pretty good conversation too. Or if nothing else is just going to embrace you to, to run back with them as well. So just don't let these things become more emotional than they need to be. Let the bad day be a bad day.
Coach Sonja:And I think the other thing with that is that one of the advantages of group training is we aren't always our best own cheerleader. But most people are really good at being cheerleaders for other people. So one of the things I've seen happen in the group is someone can be having a bad day or someone can be having a great day and they might just be sort of so-so about, about it. Or they might be really down on themselves or having a bad day, but the group will rally around that person. So many days we cheer for the person who's done their longest run, so many times we have someone who says, you know, I know you're not feeling it today. I'm not really feeling it either. Let's both drop back together. So you find these connections in the group. And I think that that having that group training and having someone else who can say to you, you're doing fine. You're doing okay, you're going to get through this sometimes when you can't say it to yourself is really important just to get through the training.
Pat:Yeah. And just to touch on that, and even for those out there who are maybe thinking about doing the program, virtually, you'll still have the opportunity to come run with the group for, the 20 miler in that case. And, I actually ended up running with one of our virtual runners during my first 20 miler. And, he and I kind of struck up a rapport over the run because it's a long time, out there. And, know, I saw that he was dropping back towards the end of the run and I knew that I was going to be dropping back as well. And so it became the two of us motivating each other. We're going to make it this last mile. You know what, we're just going to make that tree and then we're going to make the next tree and we'd got there. We crossed the finish line together. And so it's, it's really just about, being open to helping other people get through that experience. Right. And everyone in the group is friendly and has been as welcoming. Whether they are someone who's more reserved and quiet or whether they are someone who's very open and social. So it's really just about allowing yourself to accept that help and accept that encouragement. And then also turning around and giving that back to others when you can see that they need that too.
Coach Sonja:I wanted to say one more thing about the group training with the weekday runs. We talk a lot about the long runs and the importance of the group and the long runs. But I think if you can make one of the weekday group trainings, it's really easy sometimes to say, well, I can just get that done on my own schedule. It's a shorter training. I don't really need to go out to the group run, but I know that I was at Lincoln Square last summer with Pat and those group runs during the week can be some of the best team building experiences and so much fun. It's an opportunity often to run with people who you wouldn't otherwise run with across pace groups, depending how the different stores structure them slightly differently, even though we're doing the same workouts. They're a great way to meet new people, really cheer people on and get that different background, I might not normally be running with someone who's had a track background, but on those weekday nights, I'm running with a whole different group of people who have different backgrounds because we're all running in the same space. So that pace doesn't become as much of an issue because we're not out there on the long path. So I really enjoy those weeknight runs. If you're someone like me who years ago, I came with no running background. So the weekday ones were really intimidating and I just didn't go when I first started training with CES. And now as a coach, I really wish I had, because I just see how much fun they are and what a benefit they are to the runners.
Coach Michael:I'm so glad Pat brought up the virtual runners because over the summer, there's a lot of you out there. And I want to make sure that, you know, even though you're not able to join us in person for our group runs, there's a way for you to get the support from the group. And a lot of people do that through our Facebook page. Don't shy away from that, if you're looking for some motivation. If you've got questions. If you're just feeling a little bit lost. I guarantee you, everyone who posts on our Facebook page you could get a lot of love and a lot of support all season long. So utilize that. Along with that I know I've seen in the past where people who are training virtually might reach out to other people who may be in their general area I have a running partner for some of the longer runs throughout the season. So just no virtual folks you are part of the group. You're not on your own. And on a side note. A lot of times you're called virtual runners, but your actual runners. You're just virtual participants. So there's a few more things we wanted to touch on before we wrap up. And one of those is the importance of eating and fueling your body. Obviously, there's going to be a lot of demands as you're asking your body to get through 18, 19 weeks of training. Is there anyone who wants to start us off?
Pat:Sure. Yeah. I could start cause I absolutely, had to learn these lessons the hard way, as a first-time marathon runner, I, at the beginning of the program, I will admit I had a terrible. just as far as eating, whatever I wanted, not really thinking about what I was eating. Wasn't eating a lot of vegetables. You can get by with that for a short amount of time in the training program, but it will catch up with you. So it's important to be cognizant of what you're eating, make sure that, you know, you're also hydrating, you know, drink water, not just, sports strengths or things like that. You definitely want to be drinking water. It's all part of the recovery process because if you're not putting. Hydration back into your body. If you're not putting nutrients back into your body, it's going to make everything else harder. And you're going to lose a little bit of what you just fought so hard to gain through that workout through the long run, to the speed workout. And so, you'll also learn that different things sit with you differently on different types of runs. Just as an example that I gave earlier. One time I ate Popeye's chicken the night before a long run, and this is a terrible idea in hindsight, but I definitely learned that that is not something that you want to eat before a long run. And it's, so that's obviously a very outlandish example that is true to tap into me, but you definitely want to make sure that you are following, a lot of the advice of the coaches, of your own doctors and such as far as what you're eating and to make sure that you are making good choices, particularly before hard workouts.
Coach Alexia:Yeah, I think that's so important. And I think the piece I would add is. Listening to your body because, people will give you advice and you will try it and it will work for you, or it won't my very favorite. If I know I've got a hard run the next day, I like to eat Indian food, I will. 99% of the time I have a great run on Indian food. think the majority of people I've said that to are like, are you kidding? So it's personal. You know, other people might have their piece, but I learned that over time. And so now, like I seek out if I'm traveling and I have a long run, I find a local Indian restaurant before my run because I know it works for me. So there is a piece of advice, but then there's checking in with yourself. How did that advice play out in your body, in your situation? And I think the other piece is thinking about not only preparing for it, the run, but there's also recovering for the run. So the day that you had something, you know, you had some protein and you had fluids right after, did you feel better or worse than the time when you skipped it or how to donut and coffee, you know, how did that affect your body? And then, how are you fueling your body as you running? Yeah. There's lots of different pieces of advice that people can give. And we will give over the course of the season for you to try out and see what works for you. But you know, most of those really long runs, you probably want to think about how you are fueling during the run and what works for your body.
Coach Sonja:I think along with that, starting early making notes. So during these first few weeks of training, keeping track of what you're eating the night before the long run, and if you don't eat normally eat breakfast before long runs, trying to get something in your stomach before a long run becomes really key when you get toward the longer runs. I know a lot of people are like, oh, I just really don't feel great if I eat first thing in the morning. But when you start to hit 12, 14, 16, 18 miles, it's really, really hard almost impossible to make it through that without getting some sort of nutrition into your body, talk to a coach of you're in one of those people, who's just like, I really just can't eat anything in the morning. There's some liquid things you can try, as well, but eating early before a long run and trying those when you were in the first few weeks so that you can figure it out before you're getting to this high mileage really, really helps. I know everyone has their own favorite things. I really like an English muffin with peanut butter and jelly and a banana before a long run. But for other people that would be a whole lot of food. So it really depends on who that is.
Coach Alexia:And peanut butter gives some people, some people, nobody named names heatburn, right? So I love it as recovery food, but pre-run oh, no. It may sound sort of mystical, like, oh, listen to your body. And all these things where, you know, some of it is not going to be settled. Right? So some of these pieces, you try it and your body will tell you in the grossest way that did not work for you. So, you know, some of this is listening to your body for nuance. And some of it is really going to be right out there for like, you're going to know. Everyone's going to know it and that's okay because everybody is going to be going through it. I'll do a plug for you, Michael, if you listen to the race day prep episode, you will listen to the race day prep. You'll hear people say nothing new on race day, figure out what works, figure out what doesn't work before you get going,
Coach Michael:Definitely so don't be afraid to make mistakes, make the mistakes during training. So you don't make them on race day. So just to finish up on this topic. I know some people come to marathon training, looking to it as a weight loss program. And that's really not going to work very well because as we said before, if there's no fuel in the tank, the car ain't moving. If you're concerned about controlling your weight or calories we really recommend you consult with a professional like a sports dietician or nutritionist, someone with the proper knowledge and training, that could provide you with the right guidance. A quote that struck me that I think break things down pretty well is eat enough always, eat too much sometimes, but never not eat enough. Not being adequately fueled can lead to a lot of issues, including the risk of injury, which is something that I'd like to address next.
Coach Alexia:Before we go to injury, depending on I think the age of the person listening to this, it's going to be more resonant than others. But what we are embarking on in marathon training is hard work and we both need to fuel our bodies for recovery, but we also need to sleep. If we are not getting the sleep that we need, our body is not getting the chance to fully recover the way it needs to. And you're more prone to injury, which I can use as a direct pass off Michael, to your next topic. But, it's something that you really want to think about. So as we're thinking about the time commitment, slightly more sleep is part of that time commitment that if you really want to do it well, you need to give yourself the chance to do.
Coach Michael:Yeah, thank you so much for not letting us overlook sleep and how significant sleep is to the recovery process. We have recovery built into our plan. Your schedule as I mentioned before we'll have weeks where we take down the mileage and we allow our body to recover a little bit. So it's important to honor your recovery. Be nice to your body because you're demanding a lot from it. All season long, we're going to be talking about practices like recovery and nutrition and muscle maintenance your running form and other practices to help keep you a healthy runner and to avoid injury. So as we said before, marathon training is demanding. We're asking you to commit 18, 19 weeks to training and I'm going to say a lot of you have you haven't done a marathon before, have not really experienced this sort of demand on a regular basis. And running is not necessarily that kind. Running as an impact sport with your feet repeatedly striking the ground. If you do too much before your body's ready for it.That impact is going to lead to problems and possible injury. That's why we emphasize sticking to the program, not adding extra work. It's not unusual for you to get some soreness and some aches because of these demands in your body. But the secret is to not ignore it. Pain is your brain telling you that something is up. If you don't address things early, it can make a small, simple issue a major issue. So, for example, you're having a sore knee so start compensating to avoid that pain. All the sudden you're putting a demand on your hip. And now you're having trouble with your hip. It's sort of this chain reaction. And so you're making a small problem that could have been resolved with some rest or some exercise into a major problem that might take you off the path for a while. If you start experiencing something, some unusual ache or pain. Something that just doesn't feel right. speak to a coach. The coaches are not medical professionals, but they have a lot of experience with running and they might be able to help you determine if it's something that maybe you can correct with some rests or if it's something more serious that you should possibly seek the advice of a professional. From my experience, most medical people, most physical therapists want to keep you running. So if you're able to catch a problem early, address it and correct it.
Coach Alexia:I think you hit on most of it. You are going to have aches, right? And we are suggesting that you are trying things that are asking you to tap into elements of your physical being that probably are not in the state that we want them to be at the marathon. Right. So there will be soreness from some of the strength workout there, you know, all of that is okay. I think what is really important is the difference between an ache and a pain, right? If something hurts, it hurts when I step here. Okay. Well then go talk to somebody to figure out if there's a structural issue, if there's, whatever it is. I think just again, back to listening to your body, right? If it's more than a little bit of a post-workout soreness, as Michael said, get checked out. One thing to just quickly assess, and it will be one of the first things that anybody coach, pacer is going to say is, how old are your shoes? And are those shoes right for you? It is amazing how much the gear that we are using can impact this. If you are running in stability shoes, but you don't need them, are they pushing your body internal alignment, that's unnatural for you? Just making sure that you're running in the right gear for you, and if that is the case, talking to somebody who can help you quickly start to remedy the problem before it becomes, a massive season ending issue.
Coach Michael:So that's another reason to be consistent in your training. If you've been pretty consistent with your training and doing most of the work that if you need to take some time off to recover, you'll be fine. I know we've talked about it today and you'll hear it all season try and do all the workouts you can, but remember your training is the sum of its parts. It's not one or two particular workouts, it's all those pieces that you put together over the season. So an analogy could be that say for every workout you're shoveling a scoop of dirt into a pile. Every workout that pile gets bigger and bigger and bigger. If you're gone for a couple of days, you return chances are the piles gonna, still be there. The wind, it might've blown a little bit of way, but the bulk of it is going to be there. And that's the same with your training, all those pieces that you're doing now will be invested in the big picture. So missing some workouts to recover it's not going to harm you. Also at the same time. Allow yourself to fully recover. Otherwise, you're going to go through the cycle of reinjuring yourself over and over and risking either your performance or your ability to get to the starting line.
Pat:And I think just one more thing on that, you know, I've, I've had a lot of. Injuries over the years had several when I was in high school and, recovered much quicker from them. And you think, oh, I've been running for a long time or I've had a lot of injuries. So I know what's wrong. I had some left ankle pain going on in the weeks leading up to the marathon. I was like, oh, something's going on with my ankle? Interesting. Went into Align Modern Health. It turns out I had two ribs in my upper back that were out of alignment and that was what was causing my ankle pain. So you may think, you know, what's wrong, but go and talk to a professional. They will definitely help you out and be able to tell you whether something is an injury that you can continue to run on. As I was able to complete the marathon and just kind of stay within physical therapy for a little while there. Or if it's something where you really do need to take that break from training, because it's something more serious. It's always good to get that professional opinion.
Coach Michael:We could go on forever. I've got papers in front of me with lists and lists of things we could cover, but we have a long training season and we will be talking to you either through announcements or on the path, but, hopefully this is a good starting point for those conversations. So to wind things up, I'm going to put you three on the spot. I apologize I didn't give you any advanced warning about this, but before we end, I wondered if we could just go on a, go around. And everyone lists one thing they wish they would have known going into their first marathon training cycle.
Pat:I got one right now. So everyone talked to me about the concept of chafing and was focused on like one specific area to watch out for. But let me tell you that chafing can happen to you anywhere. I have got the chafing on my ear before, because I too was talking to someone on the phone while I was doing a weekday run. it can happen. It's all about friction. You can get it on the top of your foot. Just know that there's ways to manage through that. I particularly use, Aqua phur, to put on pre-run to be able to manage with the different areas that, can potentially be chafed during the run, but just know that it is not just something for one area of your body and that you know, there are ways to make yourself more comfortable and to recover from that just like you would with your recovery, nutrition and everything else so that you don't have to be in intense pain through your long runs.
Coach Sonja:So mine is a little, it's very personal, but very applicable to everyone. Mine is you can't control the weather, so learn to accept it. I trained for chicago 2007, which was black flagged back before they had the black flag system. And that means that it was canceled mid race. So I got to mile 16 of my first marathon and was told to go back to the start. The marathon was over. At that point I was really lucky because I was training with CES. I went back to the CES at the time of tent. Got hugs from all the coaches who said you, how did you feel out there? I'd been really smart about it, I took it really slow. They told me to take it as a training run and I was able to sign up for another marathon a couple of weeks later, where I did my first marathon, in my home state of Ohio with my whole family there. And it was a fantastic experience better than I could've expected. It was also very hot, but I was prepared. And I've done a lot of hot training sessions. I've gotten a lot of cold training sessions. Sometimes training will be canceled because of lightning. That's something that you just can't control. So don't stress out about it. Learn to be smart about it, learn to dress properly for it. Be okay with it because the weather is going to be what the weather is. And whatever your marathon day is, you will make it through and you will run your marathon.
Coach Alexia:So I'm gonna say one thing about my first marathon and then I'll throw in something that I figured out much, much later in my marathoning life. It's less that I wish someone had told me and more something that I valued learning when I crossed the finish line. I'm a middle of the pack runner, very much a middle of the pack runner. And I crossed the finish line thinking I had done this amazing feat and having done an amazing heat and I love my finisher's photograph because crossing the finish line at the same time as me as a man and a seventies years and a woman who is very heavyset and it really reminds me that this is a sport for anyone who decides this is what they're going to do. My mother for her 70th birthday, we ran, walked her first marathon you know, it really is about deciding that this is what you want to do, putting in the work to do it and doing it. And I look at that picture, which I was too cheap to buy cause I was too young. So it's not, you know, the two by one sample that they used to send you back in the day. But I look at that and I reminds me like, this is really for anybody that decides they want to do it. And that's one of the things I love about endurance running. The other thing which I wanted to kind of throw in here, which I probably learned many, many, many marathons later is, your why of running the marathon does not have to be a time goal or an accomplishment goal. You could really be out there to enjoy the journey. And that's okay too. I was taught marathoning for tourism by a dear friend. We would run before you had cell phones with photographs. We ran with cameras, we took pictures. You can go to see a city you can really have many reasons for doing this. And whatever reason you pick is totally valid. If you're out there to meet new friends and to try something new, fantastic. If you have a time goal, fantastic, we can help you achieve whatever that is. But whatever your goal is is okay, cause this is really a sport for everyone.
Coach Michael:What a perfect message to wrap things up on. I want to thank coach Alexia and coach Sonia and a special thank you to Pat. I think being able to share the experience of a participant was really beneficial to the discussion. And for those listening, remember, this is just the start of the conversation. The coaches will be sharing lots of information all season long. Allow yourself to absorb it all. Do not hesitate to ask questions. Embrace the journey because it's a wild ride. For those training with us for the first time, I recommend you checking out our podcast titled New Member Orientation, which will lay out a lot of the nuts and bolts of how CES does things and what you could expect from the training process. Thank you again for listening to the Chicago Endurance Sports podcast. Be sure to subscribe so you do not miss a single episode.
Coach Alexia:you can do it