The Puurlee Podcast with Nika Lawrie

Breaking Free from Perfectionism: A Journey to Self-Worth with Tonya Kay Herb

• Tonya Kay Herb • Season 2024 • Episode 99

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What if you could finally free yourself from the chains of perfectionism and step into a life of authentic self-worth? Join Nika and Tonya Kay Herb as she shares her transformative journey to self-worth, sparked by a heartfelt family conversation. Gain profound insights into overcoming the pervasive issues of perfectionism and limiting beliefs.

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Nika Lawrie:

Welcome to the Inspired with Nika Lawrie podcast. Welcome to the show. I'm so grateful to have you here today.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I can't wait to dive in.

Nika Lawrie:

I'm really excited to have you here. Yeah, and just to dive in, I think the things we're going to talk about today are so, so important, especially for women. I know I've done a lot of work on myself in these areas and doing that work has profoundly changed my life, to the point where I was probably really stagnant and stuck in different aspects of my life to feeling like kind of like an unstoppable powerhouse now. And so we're going to talk about perfectionism and limiting beliefs and overthinking all kinds of stuff. So I'm really excited to dive into that. But before we get into that, will you tell me a little bit about your backstory? Who are you, where'd you come from and how'd you get into this work?

Tonya Kay Herb:

Oh my gosh, I love this part of the story, right, so I really this work has been part of my own journey. That's really it. And as far as location, I'm located in Boise, Idaho, and I've been here. I'm a native. So I'm a native of the area and have been here all my life, and so we grew up in the country. If you will, out in the middle of the sticks.

Nika Lawrie:

I grew up in the mountains outside of Albuquerque, new Mexico, but it's very in the sticks, very mountainous. My closest neighbor was like five miles away, so yeah.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Yes, that's kind of ours too. When I was about 11, my parents bought a piece of property and it was a little further out than we'd already lived and so it was about, I'd say, 20 minutes from getting to town. We would call it going to town. And when we first built that property it was covered in sagebrush. And when we first built that property it was covered in sagebrush. Oh wow. And so we really, I guess you'd call it pioneered that space. And so I grew up kind of out there, you know, just a little small town, country girl, and that's really it.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Part of me getting into this work is really how I grew up. I had a great growing up Brother, dog parents, I mean the perfect little Beaver Cleaver family and hardworking. My parents were both in the school districts and things like that. So you could see that that was a very simple life and it was just amazing. And what I really started to understand as I got into my 50s oh my gosh, I can't believe. I just said that out loud, but I'm here and I'm owning it. Yeah, own it.

Tonya Kay Herb:

It's great, it's a privilege.

Nika Lawrie:

Yes, I earned it. It's great, it's a privilege.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Yes, I earned it. And so what I really started to understand is that hardworking, you know, keep your head down, put your big girl panties on and let's just keep going, kind of thing that gave me a lot of resilience and work ethic and that was amazing. I thank my parents for that, and even just the surrounding family. And I got into this, before I really dove into this work, I got into a space where I was really questioning who I was. You know that, oh, who am I? And you start overthinking right. Yep, oh who am I? And you start overthinking right.

Tonya Kay Herb:

And what I realized is as a young girl. It's so different because sometimes I hate even saying this out loud, because some people really grew up with some adversity and my growing up was I was a daddy's girl, and so he was so proud and mama's best helper, yeah. And so how that manifested into my life is that as long as I was a good girl, as long as I was doing the right things, as long as I was thinking ahead of everyone else so that I could anticipate their needs, then I was doing the right things.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, and then you were valued, you were loved, right.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Yeah, that's how I operated and that's how I learned to value myself, and what was interesting is that I had that growing up and then, when I stepped out into the real world as an adult, I kept looking around for those people that were going to say, wow, you're doing a great job or good for you, or my cheerleader, and so I kept striving for that, to hear those things, and what I realized is that I was devaluing myself, waiting for validation from others, myself waiting for validation from others, and that was so big. And I remember sitting with my parents not long ago and I was just really kind of feeling blue. I'd had a couple of relationships in the family that weren't quite what I wanted and what I wanted let's really hone in on that and I've got some tears kind of flowing and my dad said wow, sissy, you're just going to have to suck it up.

Tonya Kay Herb:

And that hit me. And my mom said it's just the way it is, You're just going to have to move through it. And the reason that hit me so hard is because that felt like I was screaming from the inside out, going wait, wait, wait. You mean I have to just accept it and I can't do anything about it. Yeah, and that really was a moment for me where I went oh no, I don't think so, and I had to start diving deeper. And that's really where this work started. It was an aha moment. Thank you, my parents. You know, in my later years I don't know if you call these later years, but in this part of my life, yeah, I know it's a huge when you have those profound moments.

Nika Lawrie:

They can just be little, tiny things, but you're like, oh, I get it now. Just the door opens up and you can see something different and it's a whole new experience of life by having those little moments, those little shifts.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Yeah, it's almost like, just like you said, a door opens and the sun comes out, and you're like, oh, and then? And then the things that start happening after that, because once you're aware of something, you can't be unaware again, unless you can choose that. But you're at that point you're just hiding, yeah, so, yeah, that's, that's really where the work started.

Nika Lawrie:

So that um what led you to become like a life coach and get into this career and start helping people um really identify and work through some of their issues.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Um, you know, I think I learned more from my clients than this really identify and work through some of their issues. You know, I think I learn more from my clients than this.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Right, that's always how it works Every single day, right? So you know, I was inside corporate and what I found is that every place I've ever been whether it's been for a job or a nonprofit or what have you I find myself in a position of leadership. And maybe it's just leading a project or a team or just an idea. I really started to understand the responsibility that goes with that oh, huge. I started to understand the responsibility that goes with that yeah, because so huge. I have, in fact, I did a workshop yesterday on kind of this and I believe that leadership is about leading yourself first, mm-hmm. And it's not about the position, the title or any of those things. Yeah, it's really how you're showing up every single day. And when you start to take that into account and you say, wow, okay, huh, I'm here to make a difference. Not just a difference, but a movement. Right, to empower people.

Tonya Kay Herb:

And when I started understanding what empowerment was and started sharing those outside of myself, right, instead of just empowering myself, but learning how to ask the right questions or not the right questions I'm putting that in quotes. But just ask more questions. Be genuinely curious about people. It changes things for them, because a lot of times people don't feel seen, heard or valued and they just need that. And so I started doing that inside of the spaces I was already in and I recognized that it really lit me up. I gained so much energy from sitting with someone and seeing their aha moments or them go. Oh, kind of like when my dad said, hey, sissy, you're just going to have to suck it up. But I'm like, wait, what? Yeah, what Right, those moments you can literally see that happen for people and to be on that journey with them amazing.

Tonya Kay Herb:

But the thing is is that when I wanted to do more of that, I thought I didn't really see myself leaving corporate. I just thought, oh, I'm going to just do this on the side for friends and family and anybody that needs it right. And push came to shove at one point where I said, you know, I want to step out of the leadership role and I really want to just be with people. I want to do more of that. And then it became evident that I needed to really just dive in. I don't even remember all of the steps or the aha moments that happened, but I knew that I was on the right path. It was a knowing. Have you ever had anything like that, where you just know?

Nika Lawrie:

Oh, absolutely. There's a coaching group that I'm part of. It's a network that we all get together and meet and support each other and stuff, and one of the sayings in there is live in the knowing, and the idea is that you follow what that intuition, that gut feeling is, that you just you work towards something that just feels right. You can't explain it, it's just. I don't know if it's like you know, the universe giving you information or whatever you know, god feeding it to you or whatever it is you believe, but it's like you just have this feeling and it's like this is the right thing, this is the path, and so, yeah, I definitely know what you're talking about and I think it's huge. I think a lot of people are really disconnected from that in their body, and working towards learning how to listen to yourself and how to feel that feeling of knowing is really, really key to personal development as a whole.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Well, I think you just touched on something that's really big and you're right that all knowing you can't explain it. And where we get into overthinking or perfectionism if we're going to tie this in right here is that overthinking and perfectionism is really accepting external validation. Is it the right thing? Am I doing the right thing? And you either put a post out now you're counting the likes, the comments or the what have you or you're sitting with people, a coffee or dinner or what have you, and asking what do you think about this, what do you think about that? Even though you have that knowing inside, when you're asking for that validation or what your thoughts are, there's a difference between really getting someone's opinion on a brainstorming session to how to move your idea forward versus having validation for it and the group that you're with. I want to hear more about that. Yes, I want to hear more about that. Tell me more about that. Yeah, we could have an off-episode whole conversation about it.

Nika Lawrie:

It's phenomenal. We could have an off episode whole conversation about it. It's phenomenal, yeah, great.

Nika Lawrie:

One of my favorite quotes or saying is I'm paraphrasing here because I'm going to totally mess it up, but Brene Brown always talks about before we go big, we go small. And the idea is that if we have a big idea or we want to, you know, make a move in our business or follow a dream or whatever it is right, the big picture thing we need to go small first and the idea is that we go into ourselves and we listen to what our intuition is telling us, what our gut is telling us. You know, people will call it get the download from the universe or something right, and it's like that meditation moment where you just close out the world and you just get quiet and then you'll get those answers. You'll get the guidance that you really want of what's going to feel right and it'll lead you to that knowing point and I've always loved that. I've used that as a big tool in my life as I've moved forward building my business and doing other things.

Tonya Kay Herb:

I think that that's such an important thing to bring forward at this point is just is really just kind of quieting the noise, yeah Right, and sitting with ourselves and just scanning your body for like from your toe. You know how does it feel. What am I? Your body for like from your toe? You know how does it feel. What am I, what's going on, what are those things in my head? Yeah, so big that's, that's a great tie in.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah. So I want to ask you, let's get into the perfectionism and overthinking. And then I really want to talk about limiting beliefs too, because I know I've struggled a little bit with perfectionism over my life. Overthinking is a huge thing and limiting beliefs is like the biggest factor that I've struggled a little bit with perfectionism over my life, overthinking is a huge thing and limiting beliefs is like the biggest factor that I've personally had. I have a ton of female friends, female entrepreneurs, that I see fall into one of these three categories as well, and so I want to kind of dive into kind of getting your view on each of those topics and then some of the suggestions you might have for helping people kind of identify, maybe, what the limiting belief is, or you know strategies to kind of overcome them. Is there a specific one that you like the best, whether perfectionism, limiting beliefs or overthinking that you'd want to start with, or do you want to just lump them together?

Tonya Kay Herb:

Let's just dive in, okay, because I think they all, they all kind of intertwine. Yeah, they're all dating. It's like this dating circle.

Nika Lawrie:

I think it's funny, though, because you think about each one and ultimately they come down to one factor, maybe two factors, and it's being accepted and feeling loved. I think, are the two big proponents that go into both of them. Yes, let's start with perfectionism, because I see a lot of people struggling with this. They want to look perfect, they want to get it all right. So how do we really start to identify if we are perfectionists and maybe don't know? And then what are a couple ideas that you have to help kind of overcome this issue?

Tonya Kay Herb:

Oh, my gosh perfectionism. So right, and I could talk about it because I find myself in. Even though I help people get out of it, right, the reason I'm really good at helping people get out of it is because I struggle with it myself. Right, that's how it all goes.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, I think every coach becomes a coach, whether it's a health coach or life coach or business coach, because they've struggled with it themselves and they want to help other people, not struggle. Yeah, exactly, yeah.

Tonya Kay Herb:

So you know, I think that, okay, there are a couple of different components, and I think that one of the first ones is is that you find yourself not taking action or procrastinating because you're waiting for the right moment. It'll be, I'll be ready when right, or once I do X, y, z, I'll be ready. Yeah, or I'm going to do this, this and this, and then I'll be ready. Or after I get through this, this, this and this, and then I'll be ready. Or after I get through this, the current survival mode that I'm in right, then I'll be ready. That's one way. The other thing is and this is the one that I get stuck in is, especially as a solopreneur, I will put together a new package of offerings or even a landing page for someone to go to, and I tweak it 498 times right.

Tonya Kay Herb:

And even though the first version looks great, I'm like, okay, well, is the verbiage just right. Instead of putting it out there looks great, I'm like, okay, well, is the verbiage just right. And instead of putting it out there and getting feedback or no feedback, hey, guess what? No feedback is feedback. Yeah, right, that's another way Thinking about oh, did I turn the coffee pot off? Did I, whoa? Did I shut that door? Is the iron still on Some of those things, right?

Tonya Kay Herb:

And I don't know that those tie in necessarily to perfectionism, but perfectionism and overthinking, kind of you know, are one foot on one side of the line and one foot on the other side of the line. You're still over the line. Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, know what I'm saying. And then here's the one and this is what I find with people that are top producers or running small teams, before they move into the space where they have to let things go, they're overwhelmed with every team member that they add, because now they think they have to stay ahead of them, and the idea is that that team member is adding value because they're there to take things off your plate. So here's news for everybody you have to learn to delegate and let go. And if they do it differently than you do, you can learn from that. Just because you've done it this way all this time doesn't mean it's the only way to get to the finish line, yeah. So those are places that you can recognize and here's how you move past it.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Awareness we talked about this a few minutes ago. Right, like once, you're aware, you can't be unaware again and so really just going okay, I am aware that I do these things, and so the awareness is one. And then number two is make a decision to take one step, tiny step, just one. One step, tiny step, just one. It doesn't matter if you think it's the right direction, but you have to move into a direction, because it shifts energy, it shifts all that stuff from the universe and it just starts to bring all of those things forward. And so, every step, just aware, make a decision, take the step. Yeah, that's really for me, that's how I do it. Yeah, that's how I coach my clients to do it. We're going to take one step.

Nika Lawrie:

Doesn't have to be the perfect step, I think, for me. When I started, I went through a very traumatic couple of years in my life. I had a lot of big T traumas happen and coming through that. On the other side, I felt very lost in what my identity was. I had an idea of what I wanted to do and who I wanted to be. I had this idea of this company that I wanted to build, but I was really struggling with how do I do it, how do I package it all together? How do I make it look like what I want it to look like? And what I found was I was looping in these circles of overthinking and trying to get it. I don't even know if it was like trying to get it perfect, but it was trying to get it good enough that I felt like I wasn't going to be embarrassed by sharing it. And what I found that you know, going through that cycle of looping and looping and looping was I was literally going nowhere. It was literally, you know, and it took a couple years of me looping, of doing basically the same issues over and over and not making any progress, and it wasn't until I really started to deep dive into what my limiting beliefs were and reframing what those beliefs were. That's reframing is what allowed me to break out of that overthinking perfectionism cycle, mm-hmm. And the biggest factor that came from changing those limiting beliefs was my ability to disconnect from the outcome of whatever it was I was creating.

Nika Lawrie:

So an example would be would be. So I can give an example. So I recently applied for a VC, like a venture capitalist program where you learn different techniques and you get investment in those kinds of things and thousands and thousands and thousands of people apply for it and you can apply every couple of months. And I did my first application. It was like a random one they did, and so it was rushed and so I only had like two days to apply and I did the very best I could filling out the application and getting it all in.

Nika Lawrie:

Well, I wasn't accepted and for me, like if you'd asked me a couple years ago, that would have devastated me, that would have told me that I wasn't good enough, I wasn't worthy enough, my idea wasn't good enough. I you know this must be a bad idea. I'm going to fail, right, that's where I would have. But, coming through, working through all these issues, I received the decline email and my response was like no, I'll reply, I'll reapply in a few months and I've got a bunch of other funding ideas like to work on. So it literally was like okay, whatever, and I just moved on with my day and and I guess the reason I'm telling the story is because I want the listeners to understand that working on these specific issues will completely change how you respond emotionally to basically everything in your life 100%.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Yeah, that is so beautiful.

Nika Lawrie:

Oh, thank you.

Tonya Kay Herb:

You know, when you first started talking about it, I was thinking, oh, the limiting. The coach and me put my hat on and I was like, oh, the limiting beliefs are coming up here, right, and for you to walk through that and for the listeners to be able to hear your story so beautifully and eloquently stated that it's easy for people to understand and tie to that. Yeah, oh, she's been there too, right? Yeah, yeah, I was speaking. I'm on a text thread and I went to an event last night and it's put on by one of the local businesses here and it's Woman of the Year and it's been going on for 19 years and there were 160 applicants to this, yeah, and I had the honor of being nominated.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Oh, congratulations, thank you. And so I was nominated for this and I was in shock, first of all because I didn't have any idea who had nominated me, and I went through a process similar to yours where I was like, oh, wow, okay, and I'm going to put my application in and and I'm gonna send it through all the stuff and and wow, I mean, I was just shocked and I didn't get it either. I was like, oh, I didn't make the top 50 and and. But I was invited last night to the gala, uh, because one of my friends made it through, and I was like, wow, and an older version of me an earlier version was very much would have been I don't belong in this room.

Tonya Kay Herb:

These women are amazing, they're accomplishments, they're I don't even have all the words.

Tonya Kay Herb:

I was just so overwhelmed with wow, just wow, do I really belong here? I recognized that that would have been an earlier version of me and as I walked in, I was like, heck, yes, I'm in the right room because I'm in the presence of this greatness and I get to talk to these women and find out what drives them, what things they've overcome and what work have they done, similar to yours and mine, right? What have they done to overcome and get through some of those limiting beliefs, to push that perfectionism aside and move through and recognize those overthinking loops that keep you stuck? And so I walked away and I was sharing on this text thread this morning that very story of how incredibly grateful I am to be in walking this journey at this time in my life with everyone that comes into it, because everyone is a gift. Whether we connect deeply or not, there's so much that we can learn and share, right, instead of just trying to take from everyone, how can we share our gifts?

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, I mean I couldn't agree with you more on the sharing. I think for me the most profound moments of my life have been when I've done collaborations or when somebody's helped me with one thing and so I help them with something else, and that back and forth rapport is what's lifted both of us up and moved both of us forward. When it's just that one you know, give and take kind of thing, it's kind of holding both people down really, because the person giving isn't receiving what they need to lift up and the person taking isn't necessarily growing or learning or expanding either, they're just receiving, and so it holds both parties back.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Well said. Yes, thank you. I 100, 100%, I agree, I agree.

Nika Lawrie:

So okay, so we've talked about like how you know life-changing this work can be. We've talked about like how you know life-changing this work can be. Can you give us some really clear strategies on how do we start to identify, maybe, when we have some limiting beliefs, how do we even know that they're limiting beliefs and how can we start to reframe them or shift the story that we're telling in our minds?

Tonya Kay Herb:

Okay, so limiting beliefs, if I can kind of just sum it up a little bit, it really is questioning when you're saying, oh, I can't. Well, let's just start with this one thing, and this may help us get to that limiting belief, if we can just go down this rabbit hole for a second. So I promise to go in and then out.

Nika Lawrie:

You're good Go down the hole, go in.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Okay. So our brains are like this magical supercomputer and what happens is that our brain believes everything we tell it, good or bad, yeah, right. So that's a neural plasticity, right. And so all those neurons that fire together, wire together. So if you have something that's going on and you believe it to be one way, then it absolutely is going to be that way.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Limiting beliefs gets stuck there. But when we go, wait, why do I believe that? Why, well, because that's the way it's always been done. Or well, that was how I was taught, that was how I was raised. I hear that a lot. That was how I was raised, yeah, yeah.

Tonya Kay Herb:

And or you've been in a group setting and someone starts yapping and I say yap, because they're gossiping or talking about someone else, and you don't agree, but you don't say anything. So now you all of a sudden understand judgment, right. So we limit ourselves to believing what's going on around us or what we've been told or taught, instead of questioning and saying why do I believe that? Where did that come from? Why do I believe that, where did that come from? You could sometimes go back to those places in your life and recognize where it came from If you start with being good enough, right, or wanting validation, or I'll be ready when you can actually trace that almost all the time back to a childhood space, almost always, yeah, almost always.

Tonya Kay Herb:

And when you go back and you say, huh, let's see, because of this, there was this. I'll give you an example. So, um, in my own life, uh, my, uh, my brother was a very sick little one and so that mama's best helper that was me, right, and so that limiting belief that we talked about in the very beginning of if I can anticipate needs, so that, and my mom was such an amazing and giving mom still is right, but I just wanted to be her best helper. That's how I received love, right? Yeah, so when I bring that forward, I hold on. I just went down the rabbit hole. Everybody follow me, right?

Tonya Kay Herb:

So if I go back to those spaces when my brother was young, really young, I can see where I was helping with his meds, or I was helping take care of him, or I was making sure that mama didn't have to do extra picking up after me, right, those things. So if you bring it forward to today, I've already worked through that, but there was a period of time where I hadn't, I couldn't figure out why everybody didn't just know what they needed to do next. Why didn't other people just anticipate that there was going to be this need or that need? Why didn't they just act on it?

Tonya Kay Herb:

And I was really very judgmental for a long period of time where I'm like why can't you people just figure it out, why can't you see it? Yeah, and I know I sound like a jerk right now, but I really was in that space and I had no tolerance for it and I was kind of judgy. But when I stepped back and I went but why do I believe that? Outthink or anticipate everyone else? And when I started realizing that it came from my childhood, I went oh, but because I'm overthinking, anticipating and carrying this limiting belief, I'm actually disempowering others to step into their greatness.

Nika Lawrie:

I hope everybody followed me through that journey learn and really succeed in maybe a difficult moment or a moment where there's a lot of collaboration and work that needs to be done. It's allowing space for those people to shine as well, opposed to you just anticipating everything and trying to fill all of those gaps, not allowing other people to fill those gaps and shine themselves. Does that make sense?

Tonya Kay Herb:

100%, and a lot of times we stay in that space and we go well, if I don't do it, no one else will, because you've trained everyone that you're always going to show up, no matter what. They don't have to show up in a space with you because you're always going to outshine everybody and and they don't even have a space to share with you. And so yeah, go ahead, go ahead. I think that that when we really understand that we've trained people how to behave or treat us, and that it's up to us to shift the way we operate so that others have space to collaborate and be together with us, it changes everything.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, yeah, I think that's so huge for especially mothers to learn. Mothers fill that role all the time where we have to anticipate everybody's needs.

Nika Lawrie:

We have to ensure that the house is running functionally. We have to ensure that the house is running functionally. We have to ensure that there's groceries and lunches are packed and whatever right, Like all the doctor's appointments are scheduled and people are getting there on time. And there's so much pressure and expectation for the mother to manage all of that and so she rises to that level but with that comes burnout and exhaustion and anger and resentment and the issue, like you said, is that we've trained our family to believe that we will fill all those spaces because we have in the past and it's really key to have those conversations with family members that shift the responsibility more evenly across different members of the family.

Tonya Kay Herb:

The other thing I want to bring forward is that it's not just with your family. You do it at work too. Yeah, so true, you do it inside your businesses. You do it inside right, so no one has to participate. So when we talked about, when I talked earlier about not being able to delegate, this is part of understanding that right. It's learning to let go of those things and let is safe for them to fail forward faster, because if they don't feel like they can fail or they're going to be judged or ridiculed or corrected, sometimes those defense mechanisms come up. What happens is that it takes courage to fail, and so, in order to do that, you have to provide let me see if I can say it provide a safe space, right? Yeah, yeah.

Nika Lawrie:

This is an important conversation.

Nika Lawrie:

I think it's huge. I know I've talked to some women friends of mine about, you know, different struggles we've had. You know, managing households or with our husbands and things like that. And one of the pieces that we've struggled with is having to quote unquote train our husbands to do different things. Right. And you know we come to it like, well, they're grown adults, they shouldn't have to be trained. And you know we come to it like, well, they're grown adults, they shouldn't have to be trained. But the reality is is if you have expectations of different things that you want to have happen.

Nika Lawrie:

I'll give you an example in my household. So I'm very particular about the groceries we buy. I'm very particular about the types of foods, the brands we buy, about organic versus non-organic and what products come in the house. And my husband didn't come from that same world and so he helps, he's amazing around the house and does a lot of things.

Nika Lawrie:

But I've had to have many conversations with him about, you know, these are the organic products that we buy and these are the brands that we buy for xyz or whatever. And so when he does the grocery shopping, um, he now knows to get those products. But had I not been willing to have those conversation with him, my expectations wouldn't have been met. And then, um, you know, there would have been that struggle of him not doing what I wanted to have done or the types of groceries. I'm kind of going down a rabbit hole too, but the idea is being willing to provide the information and support the people and train the people to do whatever it is that you want to have done so that you can let go of, you can delegate those items and let go of them.

Tonya Kay Herb:

I guess, if that makes sense, let go. Oh my gosh, let go. I actually have let go tattooed on my arm, do you? Yeah, yes, because I need that reminder. You have to let go, that's so big, and I think you bring something forward too. Is you know, we're not mind readers.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, and neither is anybody else.

Tonya Kay Herb:

We have to be comfortable sharing why something matters to us and why, and not from a space where we say, well, I want you to hear my opinion, but from a space where it's a conversation where you're saying this is what matters to me and why, and I want to understand how you understand this scenario or situation for our family and what's important to you about the things that we bring into our home. And can we have this conversation? Because it's not about just dictating or delegating and just throwing it out and just go Letting people understand the why behind it, and because we all have a different element that we tie into each story or each thing that we're talking about, absolutely.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talking about Absolutely yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's get back to a couple of the resources or tools that you have. Can you give me like two tools that you regularly use with your clients to help them work through some of these issues? How do we start to overcome these struggles?

Tonya Kay Herb:

How do we start to overcome these struggles. So I use a concept that helps center and align you us, that help us mitigate the overthinking, the perfectionism, those limiting beliefs, and it really is work right, it is doing some of the work. But I use an acronym that helps us redefine how we can show up in the world, and it is called the bike concept. And, for those of you just listening, there's a bike on the wall behind me, so it's there for a purpose.

Nika Lawrie:

But it's a reminder.

Tonya Kay Herb:

I have a big story behind that, but I want to get into the concept itself and how it helps us, because we talk a lot about authenticity, right, we hear just be you, and people don't understand how to do that. Well, I don't even know who I am. How do I do that, right? Yeah, that's a big chunk of I don't even know who I am.

Nika Lawrie:

How do I do that Right? Yeah, that's a big chunk of what I was going to ask you about too, so keep going, yes.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Okay, so the acronym is BIKE, b-i-k-e, right, so the B stands for B-U. And how we do that is we stop apologizing for who we are, mm-hmm. And how we do that is we stop apologizing for who we are, we stop filtering who we are. Because you and I have talked about this a little bit we think that we should show up in certain scenarios based on what we assume people's expectations are. Yeah, and that leaves us feeling less than right Because we don't know how we should show up. So that's where the anxiety comes in. How should I show up? How should I? You know, what do they expect from me?

Tonya Kay Herb:

But when we let go of those expectations and we've been invited to a space because of who we are, because we have something to offer and it's a gift who we are and how we show up is a gift. So there's a difference between fitting in and belonging. And when we're trying to fit in somewhere, we filter how we show up. I'm kind of like a chameleon oh, I like that too. Or if I wear X, y, z, then they're going to like me. Or if I've accomplished A, b, c, then they're going to like me. That fitting in always leaves us feeling less than, but when we truly belong somewhere. We're accepted for who we are, as we are, but we have to stop filtering how we show up and start showing and sharing some of those unique, quirky, funny, silly passions that we have.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Right, I mean some of those things. And you'd be surprised, when you start sharing some of your quirks, how it just relaxes the whole writing out what your three to five core values are that matter to you. Is it family, is it spirituality, is it health, is it whatever it is? And you identify those and everything that you live for filters through those core values. Filters through those core values. And when you start to hone yourself that way and show up with that on your sleeve versus all of the expectations, that changes everything. Yeah, because the relationships that you have will be more dynamic, more diverse, right, and it'll also start to filter out those fake relationships. Yeah, right, you'll start to see that.

Tonya Kay Herb:

So the I and this one I created because I'm an introvert. I'm an introvert and so what that means is that I spend energy when I'm with a group of people. Extroverts gain energy when they're with a group of people. So I can be in a room filled with people and feel all the energy for a month for that time while I'm with them, but when I leave, feel all the energy for a month for that time while I'm with them, but when I leave, I need to regroup, so that introvert side of me, okay, so the I stands for insight. So what happens for me and I don't know if this happens for you, but when I go into a new situation or I'm networking or I meet someone new for the first time, sometimes my head starts spinning. What if they don't like me? What if we don't connect? What if I see something stupid or that they judge me for All of that?

Tonya Kay Herb:

What if stuff right, what you do is you shift gears. There you go, shift the gears on your bike and you look for insight. And so now you're bringing genuine curiosity to the table and you're saying, okay, I'm going to let go of all that, and what I really want to know is I want to look for insight. What insight can I gain here? What insight can I take away or learn about you? What will I learn about myself in our conversation? What will I learn about myself in our conversation? What will I learn that I didn't know before? So now you're being more of who you are meant to be. You're looking for insight, that genuine curiosity, and it'll be surprising how many more questions, inquisitive questions. You ask someone because now you're looking for insight and, oh, tell me more about that. And oh, that's interesting I've never even thought about that right. It changes the line of questioning, so the k stands for kindness, sounds simple, right.

Nika Lawrie:

I love it because that's my probably top value.

Tonya Kay Herb:

Okay. So we're not talking about niceties or politeness or manners. We're talking about genuinely being kind, because the neuroscience behind kindness Emory University did a study and they found that when you share kindness with another, your brain's pleasure reward center lights up, as if you're the receiver and not the giver. Well, that's a dopamine hit, and remember when I said before that that neuroplasticity of your brain believes everything you tell it. Well, it's because of the feelings in your body that are coming up right. So your brain doesn't know any different, because kindness feels good no matter what, whether you're giving or receiving. So now you're being more of yourself, right, you've lined up with those core values. You're looking for insight. You're genuinely curious about other people and what makes them tick. You're sharing kindness from your core, which feels good, and the E stands for engage. I don't know about you, but I've sat across many coffee meetings, been in group meetings or at dinner and someone across the table is scrolling. Yeah, it's just rude, it is, it's just rude. It's just rude. It's just rude, it's just rude.

Nika Lawrie:

It's just rude. It's just rude, it's just rude.

Tonya Kay Herb:

It's just rude, it is. It leaves you feeling so unengaged, so disconnected, right? Yeah, so the thing is is that when you engage with someone and you put those devices down because we're starving for connection, and then it changes everything like so bernie brown, you talked about bernie brown earlier. She also has a quote that says connection is the energy that's exchanged between people when they feel seen, heard and valued. That's big so, and you have a deeper connection. Engagement with someone when you're being more of yourself, when you're genuinely curious, sharing kindness and just being present in that moment. That is the tool that I use and that helps us stop and think about how we're going to show up, because when we think about, when we put that forward, overthinking and perfectionism seem to come down a few notches. It doesn't mean they're completely gone. What it means is that now we have room to grow and we can identify and acknowledge where overthinking and perfectionism show up, because they're patterns for us. So the only way to eliminate a pattern is to recognize it and work on it. Yeah, Absolutely.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, one of my, one of the quotes that's always stuck in my head. I don't know if I wouldn't call it one of my favorites, but I remember hearing so. Jay Shetty was on Lewis Howe's podcast and this was, I don't know, probably seven or eight years ago now. It's been a long time and I don't know who actually says the quote. But Jay talks about how I am, who I think you think I am. That's the identity piece, right. And so we're showing up as if we're trying to be the person that we think you think we are opposed, can remove all of that inauthentic, materialistic kind of pieces of ourselves and just be ourselves. That's when that confidence starts to come out. That's when we start to push down the worries and fears that cause the overthinking and perfectionism loop loops, right, and then we can start to really move forward with our lives and things that we want to do, confidently and, um, with some resilience as well.

Tonya Kay Herb:

I love that yes, yeah, um, that you know there are two. There are a couple of people in my life that I love, that I want to be when I grow up. And here's why and you touched on it a little bit about we show up as who we think we're expected to be Blah, blah, blah up as who we think we're expected to be, and if we can go down that rabbit hole for just a moment and you can tell when people are really just kind of faking it till you make it right. Yeah, and not really genuinely there in the moment. And these two people show up in my life because I watch them. They're great networkers and what makes them great networkers? And not everybody wants to network.

Tonya Kay Herb:

But here's what is great about them. It doesn't matter who walks into their space or their purview, it's never about them. They're always so genuinely curious. It's about their greeting. Have you ever met somebody where, every time you see them, their greeting isn't just hey, how are you? It's hey, I was, just how are you, and that energy that they bring to that greeting. I've really started to hone in on that and I've watched them in rooms of people and the conversation is so engaging and enlightening and it just carries. And I think that there's a lot to be said for how we greet others, yeah, and how we just put out that little bit of effort. That feels good, because it feels good not only for them, for the other person you're meeting, but also for you, because you're actually putting forward that energy.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, yeah, definitely you, because you're actually putting forward that energy. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, tanya, I have one more question for you, but before I get to the final question, I want to. Well, I guess I have two questions, but first I just want to thank you for the work you're doing. I think it's really, really important. I can't preface enough of how much doing this work for myself has changed my life, and so I really hope listeners find you, connect with you, do the work themselves, because it's so life-changing, and I just want to see as many people you know grow and expand and have these, you know, joy-filled, confident lives in front of them. So thank you for the work you're doing. I really appreciate it, and thank you for the time that you're here and sharing all your expertise with us too. It's really special and I'm grateful for it.

Tonya Kay Herb:

So thank you it has been an absolute treat and I love the work that you do. It's so important to get all of this information out to people and just have a space to share it Absolutely.

Nika Lawrie:

Yeah, it's so needed and I just want to support as many people as possible in the world to heal and feel good and live happy, joyful lives. So my, I guess, my, last two questions where can the audience actually connect with you? Where can they find you? And I'll be sure to link to everything in the show notes too, but how can they find you?

Tonya Kay Herb:

Yes, and so I'm on Instagram as Tanya K Herb and you can find me there, or on Facebook. I'm on LinkedIn as well and I have a website, tanyakco C-O, and you can reach me there, and in the show notes there will be linked to my link tree that there are some free downloads in there, that kind of help you get through some of those core values or even scoring where you're at in your life, different segments of your life or there's also a link inside that link tree that offers your listeners a few minutes with me If they really want to chat for a few moments or have a story to share. I love to hear from people. I absolutely do.

Nika Lawrie:

Love that. Yeah, I'll be sure to link all that in the show notes, definitely make it easy as possible, thank you. So, tanya, my last question for you today is something I ask all my guests but what is something that you've either learned or experienced that inspired you, that you'd like to share with others?

Tonya Kay Herb:

something that I've learned. Wow, you know, I want to go back to the space of really just learning to slow down and spend just a few minutes with myself every morning. And the reason I do that it's even before I get out of bed. And the reason I do that it's even before I get out of bed. I recognize that I'm not going to feel the same way every single day, and so I do a scan when I wake up in the morning, from my toes to my head actually, and how am I really feeling this morning? And some mornings I'm filled with gratitude, and some mornings I may be heavy with a thought, and I recognize what those are and I accept it and work through it.

Tonya Kay Herb:

And the reason I do that is because now, when I go out to the day and I'm meeting with other people, I sometimes feel other people's energy and sometimes it weighs heavy on me. And I can recognize that because I tapped into my energy that morning that if someone else's energy is heavy or even sad, I can feel that and I can really just recognize that that's not my energy. But what I do is I say to myself oh, that's not mine, but I'm going to bless it with love and I'm going to send it back to them, and that's exactly what I do. It's been the biggest game changer for me in my life to recognize what my energy is and what's not my energy, and be able to love it and send it back.

Nika Lawrie:

It's so huge. Yeah, I'm such a big proponent for feeling and recognizing positive versus negative or dark versus light energy and really trying to focus as much as possible or guide yourself towards that good, positive energy and to share that with others who are maybe not in the same kind of space, so I love it. Thank you for sharing that. Absolutely, I hope it's helpful for someone, definitely. Well, tanya, thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm so grateful, thank you, thanks for having me.

Tonya Kay Herb:

I hope you have a fabulous afternoon.

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