The Grind and the Glory: Barbershop Ownership Unfiltered

Bree and Cassandra discuss their experiences building and opening barbershops, the struggles, tips, questions, and resources available, and some of reasoning behind their business decisions. 

Transcript

Bree 0:03

Welcome back to Philosophy of the Barber. This week's topic is building a barber shop. Since um both of us have done that. Officially. How about a quick intro of we have each built our own barbershop that is connected to each other. Yep. And I have built out three different barbershop spaces in the same downtown area. And three different buildings. So I've got a little bit of experience.

Cassy 0:38

This being my first first build-out, first barbershop. It's been an interesting experience, that's for sure. I think that because correct me if I'm wrong, you had a vision going into opening your first shop, correct?

Bree 0:57

Um, I I had a vision of like how many chairs, because I bought a basically one chair shop and knew that it had enough space to immediately put in three stations. And I had two almost three chairs available, like owned at the time. So I was planning on it being three stations. But outside of that, I I decided on an aesthetic. But you know, life happens, things happen, and just kind of fall in place. Not everything was planned. Many, many things did not go as planned.

Speaker 1:38

Cause I just obviously with my situation being a little more spontaneous, that was the hardest part for me was trying to picture what I wanted it to look like. And like how what kind of vibe I wanted to bring to the space instead of just existing in someone else's creation.

Bree 2:01

I think part of it is also um excuse me, uh understanding what your natural like what you're naturally suited to, like as you have seen in at least two places that interior design, like decor, I'm very naturally suited to creating that. Like that comes very naturally to me. Like I have a vision and I can tweak things to eventually grow to what my actual vision is. But I can start off and be like, you can kind of picture what I'm going for. Um so if you're not naturally suited to that, it can sometimes be a little bit harder, and you have to ask yourself the right questions, just like a haircut consultation where it's like, all right, what do I want the customer to feel when they come in here? What do I want them to be impressed by? Like what impression do I want them to leave with? Like those types of questions in order to like get where you're going, just like with yours is a very comfortable uh rustic environment. That's kind of how you got to that point. Yeah.

Speaker 3:12

Yeah, I I really didn't know. And it was so hard because I was also in my head thinking of things that I liked without it being too tacky or cliche because we do live in New Hampshire, and I like a lot of the New Hampshire things mountain ranges, trees, that sort of things, but I didn't want it to be like a lake life barber shop style. Yeah. And so it's been hard to find a good, comfortable my own ground. I don't want to say middle ground, but my own kind of realm of rustic.

Bree 3:51

Yeah. Well, and not for nothing, but I have discovered, living here for over a decade, that you know who loves New Hampshire things? New Hampshireites. Yes. It doesn't matter where they go, they're like, I want to feel like New Hampshire. Yes. They don't care if they're going to Disney World, they want to stay at Fort Wilderness.

Speaker 4:16

Yes. The nature, always the nature.

Bree 4:19

So hey, they love what they love. And if somebody decided to make a shop like that, that was like the quintessential 603 experience, I'm sure they would do fantastic.

Speaker 4:31

Oh, agreed. Very much agreed.

Bree 4:36

What was the uh the biggest struggle when it came like for you personally when it came to building out your space? Like what caused you the most stress? Hmm.

Speaker 4:50

Honestly, probably the color palette. At the begin because I feel like that's such the basis, and I couldn't move forward in I felt like I could not move forward with my space until I figured that out. And it was so hard for me to just figure that out because my favorite color is gray, and I'd rather things just be neutral. Like I I'm completely fine with just neutral shades, basic, nothing popping, nothing accentuating anything. But I was like, this barbershop does not need to look anything like my apartment. This barbershop needs to have some life, some color to it. Um, so that was hard for me. And then deciding on like station stuff, because that's such a the station and chair to me, I feel like are such a permanent fixture. I don't want to have to keep rebuying a station or recreating the my booth setup. Yeah, well, those are big ticket items, yeah. And so trying to decide on that as well, like my my more permanent fixtures. I was like, alright, this is this is it. If like if I'm making this is just this this decision, it's sticking around for a while. And that's really hard for me sometimes to set that concrete firm. Yes. Even my chair, the day that I ordered it, I still like almost flipped a coin style between two of them.

Bree 6:17

Says the lady who has dozens of tattoos. It's totally different though. It's so weird.

Speaker 6:22

So weird.

Bree 6:23

It sounds like you have no commitment problems. I get bored easily. My hair color doesn't even say the same for more than a couple of months. Um so maybe we'll get a little bit on the practical end of things if you're comfortable talking about like numbers. Because I mean I think it's important for listeners who are curious, like what it takes to build out a barbershop. Um, like what budget can like what you can do on what kind of budget. Because it's important. Obviously, that's very dependent on where you are, what you're going, yes, you know, rate is for a lease agreement, square footage, yes, that kind of stuff. Plus, you know, whatever your tradesmen are uh charging and how far out they're booking.

Cassy 7:10

Mm-hmm.

Bree 7:11

Because I mean, for for us in our spaces here, it's that was our biggest hang up was waiting on um our plumber. That was that was really what we were waiting on.

Speaker 7:21

Oh my god, yeah.

Bree 7:23

And you know, our electricians were great. Um but yeah, it was definitely the the the work that we didn't do, that we couldn't do, is what was taking so long. Mm-hmm. Because otherwise we were here late nights basically most every night.

Speaker 7:41

Yeah. This be it became my second job. I just left straight from that shop to this one for the first month.

Bree 7:48

And then it was here all day. All day. All day. And um, painting. I hate painting. So when it comes to color palettes, make sure you pick colors that you don't get tired of looking at.

Speaker 8:06

Yeah, absolutely that. And definitely try them on your wall in your space.

Bree 8:13

I did not do that.

Speaker 8:14

I know. I did I had to with my my purple black color.

Bree 8:17

I really didn't need to though, because I already had this color palette picked. Yeah. And subconsciously it was a Disney movie. So I knew it would work. Subconsciously at least. So if you go onto the Phil of the Barber Instagram account, or if you look on some of the YouTube shorts, uh, you'll see some videos of the interior of my shop. So you'll see that it's it's very reminiscent of Beauty and the Beast. Which apparently is my favorite Disney movie. Apparently. I did not consciously make this decision. Uh-uh. It was revealed to me. It's just a matter of fact. Yep. Yes, I happen to own a Cogsworth and a Lumiere that are operational. And a Mrs. Pottson chip tea set. But it doesn't everybody. Yeah, right. That's just something you buy. Yeah. So, um we gotta post some reels of what your shop looks like. Okay. Twist your arm.

Speaker 9:20

Sure, fine. Done. Whatever you say.

Bree 9:22

Okay, Jiminy. Uh so from a budgetary standpoint, because your end of the budget was a little bit tighter than my end. Um what was well, round numbers. Like what did you budget for? Because you have a roughly seven to eight hundred square foot shop in Lakes Region, New Hampshire. In the downtown area. Uh one chair shop. So you had to get everything. You had to get everything. Like your station, your chair, your towel warmer, like all the big ticket items.

Speaker 9:57

Yeah, I I had to, having come from a booth renter position where I didn't really own anything but my tools, I had to completely start from scratch. I didn't have towels, I didn't have anything, and I was able to secure um a small loan, which gave me a budget of about $9,000 to work with. Um it obviously there were some things that I had to prioritize, absolutely, um, starting with the big ticket items, starting with the paint and the station and the chair and the just little things that help me actually complete the service, decor and aesthetic fell last because that's just what needed to be. Um, I would say that 9,000 in this area again, it's very dependent on where you live and what your situation is, but it wasn't quite enough for me. I wish I would have had the um option to have a little bit more wiggle room with that, especially to be able to have like a backup fund. I unfortunately was not in a position to give myself a safety net, which luckily in my case has turned out okay. I've still been able to float above the surface, but ideally, I would have loved a better, a better safety net to work forward with.

Bree 11:25

Well, and you didn't really have a whole lot of time to plan. Mm-mm. Nope. What like two months? Mm-hmm.

Speaker 11:33

Just about. I'd be amazed what can happen in two months. Yeah, amazed. Literally amazed. Things just change so quickly.

Bree 11:42

Because from um Polish and Proper's first location to the second location, it took two months for the that to happen. Like the entire build-out of that space.

Speaker 11:54

Oh, yep.

Bree 11:55

Like from stud. Because everything had to be redone. All the electrical, because it was a fuse box, literally a fuse box. Yeah. Never had like phone utilities or anything installed in it. It had just been a storage room. Oh my gosh. Decades. Uh-huh. Um. But those were professional contractors doing that. I didn't have to do anything but like pop in there and go, this is what I want. Oh, here, I bought cabinets. This is the one I want. Yeah. Oh, this is the live edge countertop that's gonna be installed. Please, you know, let the guys in.

Speaker 12:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bree 12:26

You know, here's the paint that I want. It needs to be the same as the old place.

Speaker 12:31

Oh, were they the same paint colours?

Bree 12:33

Yes. The only difference is there was a different finish, only because I didn't know anything about paint when I did the first shop. So I put I put semi-gloss on the walls instead of flat. Oops. Oh. And I put flat on the baseboards instead of semigloss. My bad.

Speaker 12:48

Oh, it's Yeah, it was it was reversed. Oh, I didn't realize that there was a uh method. I thought it was just uh what you preferred.

Bree 12:55

Oh no, professional painters, they know.

Speaker 12:57

Oh. Yeah. Oh.

Bree 13:01

I am not a professional painter.

Speaker 13:03

Nope. I just choose whatever I like.

Bree 13:06

Yep.

Speaker 13:07

I usually just have a tendency to like flat.

Bree 13:10

Well, so you know, the more glossy you go, the more reflection you're gonna have, and you don't really want that on a giant surface area like a wall. Oh, makes sense. Yeah. See more buffs and mistakes and divots and such as? Uh, not so much, because I mean you could see scuffs and stuff on the flat, but um, it's more of like light. Oh, okay. Like, d do you r do you want to get a glare off of your wall? Yeah, fair. Okay, that makes sense. I guess bad enough on a picture.

Speaker 13:40

Oh my god, seriously.

Bree 13:44

But um, so yeah, I I've I've built out spaces three totally different ways. The first one, I'm 24. I I don't know how to do anything in life. So I relied heavily on my barber network of people that I went to barber school with and who were already like professionals in other industries and decided to do a second career. So the guy who put the flooring down, you owned a flooring company, he's a barber. Um there's the guy that did the electrical, same thing. Um, the guy who helped paint help helped me with like paint colors, um just anybody who was available and willing to help. Like so many people from barber school came up and just helped uh tear stuff out. Tyler, he was there, didn't even have his workers' permit yet, and was like ripping up flooring with us and carpet, and we were tearing down drop ceilings and getting rid of fly paper. It was gross. But super cool at the same time, because like we found the tin ceiling that was covered up, that was largely intact. So we were able to, you know, make that pop and make it look good. Yeah. All all these downtown buildings down here have tin ceilings, you know, we're spoiled in New England.

Speaker 14:57

Um, for those of you that don't know what a tin ceiling is, they're not silver tin. I thought they were. When I first heard of a tin ceiling, I was like, that would look crazy. Because I was picturing a silver tin. Like shiny, like a tin shed or a storage building or whatever. I'm picturing this silver tin. And so I'm like, who has silver ceilings? Well, technically speaking, if you stripped it. Would it be? It would be. Oh my goodness. Anyways, tin ceilings are beautiful, guys. Yes, they look like these big fancy tile pieces in the ceiling.

Bree 15:36

And they do sell drop ceiling tiles that look like tin ceilings now at Lowe's. Oh. Yeah, so you you could see those things. But when the real thing, like the real McCoy, is is nice, especially with the the trim edges. But um, so that was the first one was like everybody coming together. My husband at the time had like as soon as we got the shop and started the renovation, got fired from his job. So he was like helping me out full time all of a sudden, which was great, because we needed to be open in like three weeks, and we did it for like four grand. Like it was built with uh little Caesars and Bud Light. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like whatever fuels you men, please help, dude keep helping. And then the second one was entirely professionals because you know we'd been open almost six years at that point, so financially it was like, Yes, landlord, I if you will front the money, I will pay you that loan back with interest. If it means that this can be built out in two months. So everything was to spec. Like I got to choose exactly where every outlet went. Ooh, yeah. Every station where the bathroom was built.

Speaker 16:47

Um I didn't realize it was so very bare bones.

Bree 16:54

Oh, yeah. It was total gut job. Um, and I even like decided that I wanted less fancy components, like no crown molding. Like I needed simplicity because I knew I would be the one cleaning the place. And I was like, I'm the one who's gonna have to dust here. I don't want to have to deal with fancy things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's why it was kind of on the the more basic end. It could have been fancier, but I just I didn't have that in me. It was a lot of that was a lot of space to fancy by yourself. That was twelve hundred and thirty-seven square feet. Like that's a lot, plus basement.

Speaker 17:29

Yeah.

Bree 17:31

And and then this place was I'd say 90% done ourselves. Mm-hmm. Like e each of us our own side. Yep. You know, we had to bring in plumber and electricians, but that was it, and they had minimal things to do outside of the piping mess that there was. So, like, I did drywall. I've never done drywall. It's not great, but it works. It worked. You know, I figured out the solution for my less than ideal floor situation. You go, I don't want to have to install a floor. Because I am not good at labor like that. So I found a a solution that I could afford.

Speaker 18:18

Yep.

Bree 18:19

So it's like ingenuity. You gotta you gotta be creative with, you know, working within whatever confines and limitations you're given.

Speaker 18:26

Like the um, I've actually got two chairs in my little waiting area that were actually chairs that were left in my apartment building as just like these two dining chairs that like the leather was just worn on. All the fat, like all the material inside it was still perfect, so I just reapholstered them. It cost me $15 in fabric and decorative pins to re-upholster these two chairs and stick them in my waiting area, versus paying a hundred dollars for two chairs online. Oh yeah, it's so expensive to get some nice chairs to put your butt in.

Bree 19:02

Mm-hmm. Even if you go on Wayfair, like that's still not cheap. Mm-mm. Uh especially for single chairs like that. Yes. Like you can get deals for, you know, expectations like, you know, a twelve hundred dollar couch you can get for half the price. You go, alright, well, that works. Yeah. You know, that's reasonable and a good deal comparatively, but it's like single items like a side table or you know, a lamp. It's like, wa, why is it so expensive? But I will say that, yeah, FedEx and uh UPS are like best friends with us because they had to uh visit us a lot with things. So many things. The bane of my existence to this day is styrofoam. Like the packaging of furniture you have to build yourself is I mean, I appreciate when it comes all, you know, not broken. Yeah, I do appreciate that part of it. When it's intact, it's great. Um, but it's styrofoam still sucks.

Speaker 20:03

Yeah. It's just forever. Especially. I don't mind the thinner styrofoam. Now we're talking about styrofoam. I don't mind the thinner, but they've got like the thicker styrofoam that like the little balls break off of. Oh yeah. And then you just have little styrofoam balls everywhere. And when there's a dog and you can't sweep them because they're static. And then there's just they're just everywhere forever.

Bree 20:31

If you happen to have a dog who likes to taste things, just to check. Just to check. Just in case. You never know. I never know. It's gone now. Now you've eaten a styrofoam box. So I'm wondering what. Oh, well, how how was your experience with uh like sign permits and the more more city zoning uh permit end of things?

Speaker 20:58

Oh, it's I'm grateful that I had your help with a lot of the permitting process because I feel like if you don't have a mentor, it could seem very confusing and very overwhelming, all the different types of permits that you need to get. It's intimidating. It is very intimidating, especially when you look at like this list of signatures that you need to get and like all these different boxes you need to check off. And it's not like you're just doing all the footwork because then it'd be a little bit less intimidating because you're like, okay, I can if I'm doing it, I can handle these things, but you have to wait on other people, you have to contact other people, you have to wait to hear back from other people, and it's just it's a lot, it's a lot. Luckily, signage and stuff because I was doing such a basic sign, helped it be easy. But had I been in a location where I was getting a large standalone information. Front of the building kind of signage. The permit itself is just confusing.

Bree 22:06

Oh yeah, well, and that's municipality to municipality dependent. Yes. Baconias happens to be 20 pages long, but like 17 of those pages is the ordinance itself. And like helping you fill out the form.

Speaker 22:21

But j just the fact of like you needed to know what zone you're in. I'm like, I didn't even know. I don't I didn't know what zone I was in. I didn't know what I was a part of.

Bree 22:30

Well, and I mean anybody who's not dealt with cities before is like, what's a zone? Yeah. What is the Department of Public Works? Mm-hmm. Especially if you're in your 20s, like, who in their 20s knows those things?

Speaker 22:45

No.

Bree 22:47

Um, so yeah, I can definitely see how that is like sometimes be unapproachable. So like if your city or town has uh a section or department that's like for small businesses and can guide you through that, like props to your city. Um that's not always the case. And wading through the whether or not because here in New Hampshire we're a little behind when it comes to implementing certain uh perks having to do with technology. So, like, we have a city website. It's not bad. I can navigate it, but it is by no means up to 2024 standards by any stretch of the imagination, nor would I expect any government website to be. Unless it's federal, and even then, maybe. Maybe it depends on what branch. You know, who's got more money? Because the VA's historically has slacked. But they've improved over the last few years. So, you know, as far as like being able to find forms, information, phone numbers, people to contact to guide you through stuff, especially if it's your first one. Who knows? If you're opening up in a small town that doesn't have a barber, I'm sure they still exist outside of New England. Uh maybe the person at the town hall has no idea because they weren't around. Right. They weren't around the last time they had a barber. Ooh. Yeah. Thankfully, here, um, barber poles in the city of Laconia are exempt from signage permit requirements. So you can throw up a barber pole with no permit. It's great.

Speaker 24:33

Do you Oh, um, so you need a permit in other places?

Bree 24:36

So in Concord, you cannot fly a spinning barber pole. You cannot you cannot do any moving signage. Oh. Because it's a distraction. Like KFC's bucket of chicken that turns. Yeah. They couldn't have that in Concord.

Speaker 24:53

Interesting. Because it's a distraction? Yeah. I mean, they're not wrong. They don't they don't they're they do turn and move to attract attention.

Bree 25:04

That's the thing. They they don't let a barber pole spin outside of uh an establishment, but they let you have chickens. And as long as they're not like who roosters or guinea fowl, but Laconia never mentioned chickens in a planning board meeting. It is a hot button topic, absolutely not, unless you're in the agricultural zone. Not allowed.

Speaker 25:25

Is it a hot button topic?

Bree 25:27

Oh yeah. About 10 years ago, it was it was a whole thing.

Speaker 25:31

Let us have chickens.

Bree 25:35

If you ever you get into the minutiae of municipal z ordinances and things like that, it just it gets eyebrow raising very quickly.

Speaker 25:46

Is there anything like when you were first opening your shop, is there anything that you like missed and or almost missed permit-wise, like when you were getting things set up as far as legalities? Oh, see. Because you were opening your first shop and there aren't those kind of uh benefits with the city hall here to just guide you through those sort of things?

Bree 26:08

Um, well, so you see, what I did with my first barbershop was purchase an existing barber shop from somebody else.

Cassy 26:15

Mmm.

Bree 26:16

So technically, I didn't need those things.

Speaker 26:20

Oh, because it was already an you didn't need to do it. Yep, okay, yep.

Bree 26:23

Yeah, yeah. Yep. So that was great. But also, um the phrase ask forgiveness rather than permission uh may have been a standard used by downtown business owners at that time, especially a 24-year-old wide-eyed, long eyelashed, like girl from Ohio. Going, what? Did I need to do that? How am I to know? Thank you so much for telling me. It can go a long way. It can. I'm saying I didn't know anything. So, I mean, ignorance is is a card to play. Whether or not you know that you're playing it. So, yeah, that that went a little bit of a way. And I mean, my mentor was unfamiliar with Laconia specifically. So, like, he had dealt with other municipalities. Yep. And so, you know, the rules vary. In, you know, one place uh a decal doesn't count as permanent signage because you can remove it.

Speaker 27:41

Oh, okay.

Bree 27:42

And in another place it does. So it's kind of a hit or miss, and it's definitely a case-by-case basis situation. But yeah, that was handy. Purchasing a an existing shop from like an old timer.

Speaker 28:01

Yeah.

Bree 28:02

And especially from a like a starting off standpoint, you go, alright. It's generally known that you can get your haircut here, even though it's a one-chair shop who's doing maybe five to eight haircuts a day. Cool. He and at whatever price point he was, which was not high. I think the standard of the time was like $14 here. Yeah. Um we upped it to 16 immediately. Uh but uh yeah, it's it's handy to get over some of those hurdles that we had to deal with with this place. Um because I had to deal with those things twice.

Speaker 28:43

Well, and I was gonna ask for the second, you obviously had to cover still like the same ones we did here, but like also the professional companies took care of all of their end of permits, of course.

Bree 28:56

Yes. In fact, there was a like cease and desist posted because I guess they hadn't pulled a permit. So I like took a picture of it and sent it to the contract and was like, uh, what's the deal? Because I I don't want that like associated with me when dealing with the people I know at the city. Yeah. Like that because they know I know the rules by now. Like I've been around a while, like five years. So they're like, hmm, you can't do the ignorance card anymore. You've outplayed that. Your eyelashes don't work anymore, lady. I disagree with that. But at least the ignorance card doesn't work. The eyelashes I only pulled out if absolutely necessary. Only with the fire inspector. Yes. At that time. So, yeah, the professionals took care of their permitting and everything. I only had to deal with um going around making sure the inspections all happened.

Speaker 29:49

Okay.

Bree 29:50

And that was before the permit, the new permit that we had to deal with here, for the Winabasaki River Basin Project, which was a whole nother thing. Talk about like a waste of trees and paper of having to print out yet another copy of SDS sheets for their records in addition to the ones we have to keep here, like for inspection purposes. Crazy. Insane. And the amount of time it took to actually get like official written approval for that?

Speaker 30:17

Yeah.

Bree 30:18

Stupid.

Speaker 30:21

Just think about it though, that means they're doing that for every business.

Bree 30:30

At the same time, there are there are plenty of businesses that don't have the requirement to have SDS sheets.

Speaker 30:39

Oh, fair.

Bree 30:42

Like retail. Retail doesn't require SDS sheets. That's right.

Speaker 30:47

Damn us in our chemicals.

Bree 30:51

It is what it is. So, uh looking back, I mean it's only been a few months, but like aside from the budget situation, um do you think there's anything you would have done differently or would have preferred to have prioritized over other things?

Speaker 31:18

Honestly? No, I feel like with the cards that I was dealt, I I handled the situation best I could. I feel um good at what I have in the shop and the couple things I've added since the initial, I feel have been very helpful. There's of course a couple little things that I still want to add, but those would never have had the priority to get put first. Right.

Bree 31:41

Um because I mean bare bones, the things you need for a barber shop, besides the inspectables, are your barber chair, your station. I mean, technically you don't need a towel warmer because that is a uh a level up of the service. Correct. But like a latherizer. And your tools, which you already have. Mm-hmm. And towels. Because you need towels, like whether you're shampooing somebody, or you know, you need a hand towel to wipe off some stuff. Like it's prettier bones, you know, trash can, laundry bag.

Speaker 32:12

It's well, and it's also like you don't even think about all of the little things. Trash can, laundry bag, like the little extra stuff. You don't think about all those things when you're thinking big ticket at first, and that's and then as it started like getting closer and closer to us opening, I was like, oh yeah, I still need a trash can. Like, I don't have a trash can or a laundry basket for my stuff. And it was just like little things that I was like, oh, duh, I need to order a new box of next strips. Of course, I don't have like I don't have those right now. I don't have a container for my combs. Yeah.

Bree 32:48

And it is all those little things, and they do add up. Like if you have all of those things, it's like, mmm, that's quite the Amazon order. Yeah.

Speaker 32:54

Oh, Amazon, yes. I love that it keeps reminding me of how much I could have saved if I had an Amazon Prime credit card. I'm like, thanks. I'm not getting one. You can't make me.

Bree 33:07

Oh careful. There's a lamp there. Now, from a we'll say a not physical uh build-out standpoint, like building your shop, like letting people know that you're here. Like what are your priorities as far as um bringing people to your establishment, like especially from a low to no cost standpoint? Like, what are the the list of things that you're doing to garner business?

Speaker 33:42

Um I'm consistently putting myself out there when I am having conversations and meeting new people. I'm not it and it's more it's kind of been like little things like that, like allowing myself to be more um open and friendly at the gym and like interacting with people that way, and just and and warming myself into the community. Um, but I also well, it wasn't super low cost, but I also did that thing. There was a um trunk or treat event that I did last Halloween just before we opened, that I added some business cards to some goodie bags. Um which honestly that did help a little bit. I pulled a a couple different clients from that. Um but really I think the biggest thing that has attracted people to the business, I don't like that's more of a physical sense though, is my Sasquatch out in the front. Oh yeah. It just draws so many people in.

Bree 34:48

Well, and ha and having a a signature visual like that is is really important, like to be found if somebody's never been to where you're located before. It's the how do I find you? Well, I'm across the street from this place. I've never been down there before, I don't know where that place is. Good point. So like having that landmark is really handy. Um some of the things I did when first first first opened um was obviously establishing like outreach in the downtown area because there's so many businesses and fellow downtown merchants. So, you know, downtime, definitely going to the area businesses, introducing yourself, because most of them are owner operated. You're gonna you're gonna either hit the owner or one of their family members, most likely. Um that way, you know, you kind of get some insider information. Cause I mean, downtown business owners are so so willing to like give you the tea. They are like, oh, you wanna know about this building? Don't don't go into that building. That building owner is terrible. He's gonna like sue you out of your lease as soon as he thinks that you're making money. Uh or oh, that building? Well, here's the 50-year history about that building. And you know, you get to hear all the drama of small towns. And I mean, this is this is technically a city of 17,000 people, which is not a lot of people.

Speaker 36:12

Is there that many people here?

Bree 36:14

Year-round. It used to be 16. For the last 40 years, it was 16, but then you know, COVID happened and everybody moved here. Thousand people. But um, so having that and getting into that web of network connection, because I mean, even though it's a tiny downtown, it's the one end, you don't always get to travel and hear what's going on at the other end. So, like, if you have that free time to go and like pop in at one of the stores and just check in and be like, hey, what's up? And you figure out what's going on, especially as a barber. Like, we have to know the T. Yes. We gotta be able to tell people directions, we gotta know where things are, we gotta know the name of roads, landmarks, sections of town. Like, we gotta know the history. All the current events and the things that are gonna be happening on in the town. Mm-hmm. Like, we are um the announcement board. Mm-hmm. Like almost like the information center. Yeah, yeah, we're the bulletin board for the town. And we do it in a way that's engaging. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's like if you suck at making a poster, okay, well, you suck at making a poster, but tell me about your event and I will tell other people about it.

Speaker 37:33

Oh yeah. I've boasted up this food truck of my client so much, and I still haven't even I haven't even tried the food yet. It's not food truck season yet. Like, he's not even food trucking yet. He did one season last year, told me about it. I have his business card so I keep passing out. I'm like, I'm sure it's great.

Bree 37:53

Well, and that's another thing is you know the basic practice of business cards. Like, it's worth that investment. And I mean, depending on what type of business card you're going with, will depend on that that is a variable in how effective the business card can be. Like, because you gotta think entirely on first impressions. You go, alright, do I wanna spend ten dollars per card? Or ten cents per card? Ten dollars. That better be a metal thick card. I was gonna say that is also like a Swiss Army knife. So like that better be a nice card. Better have tool attachments and be able to use it as like a wrench. But like 10 cents a card or like a dollar a card. And those are very different experiences holding them.

Speaker 38:40

Oh, yes. Real quick tangent about the business card thing. So I when I first got into the industry, um, fresh out of school, I was about to go to a barber expo, and I was like, ooh, I definitely need cards to go to this barber expo. I wasn't even fully like started in that shop yet. I think I was like a week away from graduation, honestly. But I was like, I need to at least have business cards with my Instagram on it to pass out at the Barber Expo. So I went very cheap route, just through Staples, was able to pick them up the next day, very easy. But then when I came a booth renter under you and had those very nice fancy cards, yes, I had a whole new respect and understanding for the quality of a business card. And when I bought the business cards for my new business, Rugged Barber Company, I it was under under the knife, was doing it for the goodie bags, so I didn't want to spend a lot of money because they were just going in goodie bags, and then probably in the trash. So I went the staples route again, and now I'm just ready to get rid of them. I've clearly ordered too many from the Halloween thing, and now I just want them gone so I can buy better ones because I can't justify buying better ones while I still have these, that's just not financially savvy for my business, but I'm tired of these thin business cards, and I want to hand something with a little girth to potential clients.

Bree 40:18

I feel like some of the people who have worked uh at my shops get spoiled. That was a little too fast when it comes to some some things, because I mean I am obsessed with quality in certain aspects, like where it where it counts. And as a first impression, like it counts, like it's not just people that give first impressions, it's also any tactile experience that's associated with you. So, yeah, we had um um cards from Moo.com, not a sponsor. Uh I wish. Um and they were like thick their luxe cards, like they felt like a coaster from a bar. Yes, like a nice coaster from a bar. Um and they had everybody's photo on them. Very nice photo. That way you're marketing yourself first and foremost. Like, yes, you work at my shop, but it's you that you're wanting them to come to. Yes. Like the shop happens to be where you're located, but it's your chair, it's you as a person, and that way your face is there, even if they don't remember your name, they're like that girl. That's the one that her. So, like that all mattered, and it having that perceived value in that tactile in that feel. Like you immediately don't want to throw that away because you're like, oh no, this this costs money. I like this, it will last in my wallet.

Speaker 41:57

Also, I feel like because of its sturdiness, people are less likely to throw it away because it's not going to get completely worn and bent over and over again in the wallet. Because I feel like it'll stay being good like that. It's not gonna get dumped in the clean out versus like I just have so many business cards in my wallet just to get thrown out all the time. But there's certain ones that stay. Yep, they always stay in the rotation, and they're usually the nicer looking business cards, whether it's for the graphic on it, the feel of the card, or whatever, it's the better quality cards that end up sticking around.

Bree 42:32

Yeah, so it's it's the thicker cardstock, it's the the embossing, gold, uh like metallic lettering. Anything that makes it stand out like that. And it's not all. I I actually don't like business cards that are too awkwardly shaped. Like, I don't like square business cards, I don't like tiny rectangular business cards. They don't fit in wallets. Yeah, if they're not close to or a typical business card size, like ours were slightly different, but not so much as like would make the wallet experience difficult. It would make it difficult if you had a business card holder that was conventional, and you go, alright, well, it doesn't fit in there. But like for the most part, for a consumer to fit in their pocket, to fit in their wallet, it would still work just fine. Uh but some of them are awkward shape or like custom cutout. I don't like those because they become very inconvenient. Yeah. So now they don't belong anywhere. I can't put them somewhere. So something to think about when you're picking out business cards. We could we could go on about business cards and all those like little detailed things. It's like my favorite thing.

Speaker 43:51

I'm just ready to be able to get new ones because I already have a vision for them. And I want them to be real.

Bree 43:57

Well, the cool thing is you can always make a draft and like save it on your account. Fair.

Speaker 44:05

When did you decide to make the jump and start selling merch?

Bree 44:14

Uh I think we got our first t-shirts. Maybe year two or three? Uh might have been three. Cause I because I didn't start off with a professionally designed logo. So that was that had to be like year year three when I had that. And and Harvard was working for us uh when we had our first t-shirts. So yeah, I want to say three years. Okay. What but you're already ahead because you already have a professionally designed logo.

Speaker 44:57

What kind of showed you that it was a good time to start doing merch sales or did you nothing.

Bree 45:06

Nothing? Absolutely nothing. Okay. That was just a eh why don't why don't we do this? I know other people that have t-shirts people seem to like them. Mm-hmm. But I always again quality like the first t-shirts and every with one exception every t-shirt that we carried was always like a tri-blend. Really nice fabric that just didn't wear out it wasn't those cheap like let's just go to the mass production screen printer and get these t-shirts for this baseball game and then we'll never have to wear them again. Yeah. And it's I've been there done that got the t-shirt kind of quality I like that quality. Yeah. Like I wanted t-shirts that I wanted to wear that would rise to the top of the rotation every week. Yeah. So that was the only reason was like alright if I'm gonna do a t-shirt I'm gonna do a t-shirt that I want to wear on a daily basis.

Speaker 46:00

I know that's I've been because you know that I've been toying with ideas of merch and stuff and when I feel like that would be a good idea and lately I've been playing with the idea of possibly introducing hats this summer depending on how things just because I know that my clients will buy them. Like I know that people will I know even if my direct clients won't like I know that I can sell them through my family friends network just for wanting to support me. So like well you could you can put Rudy like a silhouette oval of Rudy on a beanie or a flat brim or anything. Like ah yes and so I've been as far as like what kind of hat to get I'm like well I like the trucker hat style because that's what a lot of my clientele wears and that's what I see a lot of around but I personally don't wear those I like a more like wiki sport style hat and so I'm like to cater to more the client or to I don't know because it's not necessarily to myself but because I also cater to the golf guys that's true in that aspect.

Bree 47:17

You do so but it's hard to did you ever was all your merch stuff online or did you ever do like um mom and pop local so if I had screen printing needs on a custom item like barber capes I had a local guy. Okay. And I mean still technically do like he's still open and I know where to find him um because he is also somebody who cares about quality and so like we had that conversation of like I want your screen printing to last longer than the item. Yeah. And he delivered exactly that when it came to when he screen printed our logo on the capes. Really? The capes did not last as long as that logo and it it was exactly what I wanted but as a general rule I tend not to use most local screen printers specifically mostly because I don't want to step on the toes or possibly insult somebody because their business has certain pricing that doesn't work within my budget. Mm-hmm so I prefer to not have that human connection because if there I also am we'll say prideful in some areas as you witnessed earlier today uh that I don't ever want to feel in business that someone is doing me a favor. Mm-hmm so I'm not a haggler like I take you at your word whatever your price is your price because I'm not a haggler. Yes. Like I'm not gonna haggle my haircut price with somebody it's that my price is my price. Like it's not a conversation. That's a fact. Yes. So I treat other people that same way. Yes. So if somebody is then willing to work with me on a price I go well then either you're doing me a favor or that's not your price. Yeah. So either way I feel like it's not being transparent legitimate business. Yeah it's like and that puts me in a confusing space because not everybody's great at communication it's like what am I supposed to think about that? Um because you know it can't just be the face value. No, it cannot there's way more behind it. So that's why I tend to not venture into local merchants that do screen printing. But I've used local merchants to do other retail items like um custom shave mugs used a a local um crafts lady who makes dishes night shift stoneware she's fantastic she makes the dishes for the local coffee shop and area restaurants she sells them herself online and in her shop she's great. So she made shave mugs for us that had our logo stamped into them. Oh yep I remember those phenomenal and like we went over spec uh specs for the the mugs so that it was like user friendly not just like a regular mug where it's like hey if you got big thumbs well sucks to be you uh so you know we had uh an apothecary handle put on it that way it didn't matter how big or small your hands were cool and the the bowl was uh the the lip of the bowl instead of flaring out was like tipped in a little bit that way as you were making the lather in it it would keep it in the bowl. Instead of Yeah and um the top part was glazed it had a nice like darker light grey color but the bottom part had a textured clay finish um that way even when wet you could keep it like firmly gripped in your hand and you wouldn't slip it out and break it and it'd be terrible. So like it was designed with thought.

Speaker 51:15

I was gonna say very thought out I love this.

Bree 51:18

And the the the handles she alternated and put them on both sides of the mug that way whether you're right or left handed the logo can be seen whichever way you want it to be seen because as a lefty I care about these things.

Speaker 51:33

Yes so yeah all of those things were taken into account when making that product for our customers I appreciate your thought process and mindset with local merchant on certain things because I've felt myself at a little like impasse kind of because I do know she's a friend of mine I do know someone that does lots of screen printing and clothing and stuff like that and I've gotten a shirt from her before and so in my head I'm just like should I use her because I'm a small business should I support small businesses because I'm a small business and I go through that little argument in my head but the reality is I can't afford her and I but I respect her craft trade job and everything too much to want to or try to talk her down but like the the small there it is expensive and it is very much some of them are very much out of budget.

Bree 52:37

Well and see that's the funny thing I just was like flipping through reels today and there was somebody who was having a conversation about um clients that pay you more are the ones who actually respect your work the most like people who are like questioning or trying to bring your price down don't respect your work as a professional but or don't trust them because maybe they're a first time client. Like they don't know so they're trying to like haggle with you versus like the people that know your skill know your level of expertise know your quality they will never question that price and in fact like not rarely you will get paid more than what you're asking because they're like you're not charging enough or they want to make sure they stay in your good graces so that when you get too busy they'll stay a customer. Yeah so those are definitely things to keep in mind when you're making decisions like I don't aim to make enemies or to like insult people or anything like as a fellow small business owner like that's never my goal and it's never my intent if I don't use you either it's probably either I don't know you exist, I think you're too busy or you're out of my price range. It's not personal. Yeah it's it nothing I like your work I can't afford you nothing about business for me is personal. Correct it's the I am compartmentalized like my sense of self is not attached like my value as a human being is not attached to my business. Like there's plenty of people who are not fans of mine and that's okay. I'm not for everybody I know that I'm fine with that but that doesn't make me feel like less of a person. Yeah like it's I am a valuable human whether my business succeeds or not correct yes that value does not change and that is the same with everyone I deal with I treat them first and foremost they are a valuable human being if I am critical which I have been known to be uh I am critiquing the the product or the performance of a function that's an action that is not a state of being that is not you personally I get more concerned when people do take it personally and I go is this how you take criticism? Is it directly to your heart? Mm-hmm then you can't take criticism and that's a problem on your end.

Speaker 55:34

Because how are you to improve if every single critique is taken as an insult rather than constructive I feel like criticism can be hard depending on the mouth it's coming from oh for sure I lack tact more often than not because I gotten better about it over the years but I definitely used to place a lot of my self self-worth on how I presented and the things that I had and like what I was able to bring to the table is what valued my worth and so criticism used to be very hard family and friends absolutely can take it turn it use it grow from it but people that I didn't trust or I was already uncomfortable with insult completely took it negative and would almost like hyperfixate a little bit on that and then have that create this new little being for myself and so it's been I'm glad that it's something that I've gotten over as I've gotten older and something that I've been able to grow out of because in any industry just in in life itself but like I wouldn't have been able to go through school having that similar mindset that I used to have because it it was so detrimental to who how I valued myself school would have been a nightmare.

Bree 57:13

Well how could you learn with that mindset?

Speaker 57:16

I couldn't I wouldn't have been able to do anything anything and honestly school's kind of what helped me get I think it's the school mindset because it was school before when I was very young that it was so impressionable on me and I was able to almost like kind of transform that in a new learning environment and not take things so personally and not feel like the go-to is that God I'm an idiot like the first the first train of thought you know what I mean and to be able to take it differently and actually grow from it is just is so much better than taking it personally. Which it's it's not I'm not I'm still not perfect with it. Like there's still sometimes I have to like remind myself don't worry because Andrew's not personal.

Bree 58:01

Oh yeah well and same I had to have my own experiences that like shaped that ability in me. Uh but it's interesting that you like you're cool with criticism from friends and family but not strangers whereas like mine is the opposite. Really? Uh uh I'm far more open to random people because I feel like they are unbiased. Like I feel like they don't they have no preconceived notions about me. So that's just honest feedback from people that don't know me from anybody. Friends and family friends I mean friends have more context so I feel like it's just m more informed whereas family I feel like is definitely uh on the more biased end of things so I don't I don't take that nearly as well. I mean fair I can see that mindset for sure a little dip into my psychology Strangers are great because they don't know me so is there any advice for an uh people that are looking to open a shop that you would uh like little nuggets of knowledge that you might want to bestow upon them that were handy for you or maybe you wish you had thought to ask beforehand.

Speaker 59:33

Um if you have the time save for it definitely definitely save for it because you'll save yourself so much headache and realistically just having the financial security to back the decision you're making just helps you move forward. Um also though when I was really struggling with what I wanted my shop to look like um Brie gave me the idea of doing almost like a vision board and just like looking up images of different whether it's a seating area or a library or just a living room just looking up different images of different aesthetics and creating just a little piece together vision board and just seeing different things really helped me focus it all together because if I didn't have that it was just so grand and vast and there was just so many things floating around in my mind but to center that onto one piece and allow me to like actually look at it was really helpful to like gather a better understanding of what I wanted to see in my space.

Bree 1:00:44

Well and it's so important to create a space that you are going to feel comfortable in every day for hours on end. Like that matters immensely because I mean number one if you're the one who's going to be comfortable in it for eight to ten hours a day five days a week roughly then the chances of your customers being comfortable there are pretty high in my opinion. As long as you're still keeping them in mind during your decisions. Like I'm not saying make yourself a man cave or you know a a she shed sort of a barbershop situation. It's not like it's not for your leisure but it is for you to be comfortable to work in that environment. Like it needs to not be distracting so that you're wanting to do other things other than work but it to be able to surround yourself in an environment that allows you to focus comfortably on the task at hand and that when you get a chance to sit down you're still comfortable like those things matter in my opinion more than things just beyond the necessities of like a chair and a station yes yeah yeah yeah you have to have things in your space that you that make you happy to be in there. Yeah like if it's sterile like uh who wants to work in a hospital honestly like that's not a comforting environment I don't think for anybody no it's not even for the people that want to work there it's practical from a disinfectant perspective and you know they use calming colors but it's not comfortable everything is is hard everything is a tile or a laminator it's a hard surface nothing's comfy and cozy because I mean germs love comfy and cozy too so as far as hospitals go power to you make it hard but like a barber shop it needs to be more approachable because everybody like expects you to be friendly. Yes. Like I had a first time today who was like oh like I don't go get my hair cut often and he doesn't um he's like I've never had a bad experience getting my haircut and I was like I am so glad to hear you say that. I know this is the first time you've seen me but like as an industry professional I am so happy that you have never had a bad haircut experience because oh it hurts me every time I hear people's bad haircut experiences.

Speaker 1:03:25

Really it really does. Like I'm I am grateful when I can hear that like there aren't that you don't have a horror story from a shop where they nicked you or messed up your hair so bad or well and it's not just the haircut it's sometimes it's the experience.

Bree 1:03:39

Like you could have a rockin' fade walking out of there. But if your barber was grumpy or if they decided to dump their emotional baggage on you that day that could be just as bad of a haircut experience as, you know, getting a jacked up cut.

Speaker 1:03:54

Very fair and if not more so because at least given our usual clientele basis they're usually a little bit more careless about the look of the haircut as far as being able to let some stuff slide.

Bree 1:04:09

They're they're low maintenance. Yes yes they understand that their hair grows back they're forgiving as long as the experience is positive they are willing to work with you and like come back and give you constructive criticism and feedback going hey can we not go quite as short the next time or hey uh can we like make sure this is a little less heavy like stuff like that. They're they're willing to work with you if they like you.

Speaker 1:04:36

Yep. In fact I feel like that's kind of how I know that a client likes me and enjoys the experience that I give them and not just I'm a barber giving a haircut. When they do come back and they're like hey could we maybe not do this like that next time I'm like oh yep yep sure like when I messed up someone's hair a few weeks ago that was unfortunate but we got we got a second chance. Oh good yeah that's all that matters.

Bree 1:05:03

I don't remember that particular instance but okay I got my own problems to deal with over here sometimes now I can hide from you all right so last thoughts as far as building a barber shop do you think we've covered at least from our experience because I know we hadn't covered like uh from more of the business aspect we didn't cover like writing a business plan because we did do that but um going to banks looking for business loans like those are definitely things that are outside of my wheelhouse because I have thankfully always been in the position to not have to look for conventional financing options. I have like my first shop I got a loan from a friend um which was paid back within nine months because I don't like owing individuals money which especially if I like you I don't like owing Money. Um, the second one was conventionally unconventional because it was the landlord willing to invest in his own property um as a loan that was built into the lease with interest, so like he was still making money. Yeah. Which is the conventional loan concept, but it was built into the lease to where it'd be paid back within the term of the lease. So that yeah, that was handy doing it that way. And then this was definitely, you know, small small business loans like going through Square, stuff like that, like those don't require you to like prove anything, yeah, other than what Square already knows is yeah, the money that goes through your PUS system. So like they do all that for you. You don't have to like meet with a loan officer and justify your business, and here are my tax returns, this is my gross income, uh, here's my overhead. Like, not having to do those types of things has always been more in my comfort zone of like, cool, because I don't feel like I need to justify anything to anybody.

Speaker 1:07:04

Yeah.

Bree 1:07:04

But I also am super uncomfortable being in debt, like more than fifty thousand dollars. Like that was uncomfortable for me. Like that was the m the most uncomfortable I have ever been financially, and I don't like it. Yeah. Uh I don't know what I'll do when uh my husband and I finally buy a house, but I'll not be alone in it.

Speaker 1:07:26

Fair enough.

Bree 1:07:27

So unfortunately, we can't talk at length on that end of things. And I mean, aside from my my position of being a volunteer with the score program, I can't really talk too much about like the ins and outs of even that program, though if you do have a local score program and are looking to open a shop, I would recommend checking them out because they do have great mentors. If you're lacking one, that might be a place to find one. You know, they can definitely help with the accounting end of things and um anything that is not barbershop specific, they're pretty great at as far as like running a business. But um outside of that, what do you think? We'll cover everything for the for the moment until we can think of something else and we'll write it down. Uh well, until next time, uh, we'll see you guys next week.

Speaker 1:08:23

Have a wonderful day.