Cutting and Connecting: The Social Side of Barbering

Bree and Cassy discuss how they converse with so many people on a daily basis, what opportunities that provides, and how connecting with their clients is one of the highlights of the profession.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Welcome back to Philosophy of the Barber. Hi Cassie. Hello, hello. So this week we are discussing how to have conversations with clients. So well we can just jump right into it. We'll have this be a nice concise episode maybe after I get done editing it. Uh over the the years that you've been in the industry, how have you grown to figure out how to talk to various clients?

SPEAKER_01 0:32

I try to be as authentic as possible because I don't want to have to feel like I have to come to work and just put on a persona. And I feel like if I'm authentic, it'll attract people that mesh or at least are good with my authentic self. Um, but I definitely gauge how forthcoming I am with information or how I speak, depending on the client, for sure. I definitely gauge kind of who they are, what what kind of lifestyle they're into.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Yeah, part of it's a read the room, know your audience sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Very much so. And that's that's one of the things that I had to like learn. Because as much as I thought it was gonna be them talking, it's sometimes not. And not because I'm super chatty, which that is a thing, but not very many men are very chatty. Unless you're like asking them questions to keep the conversation going, it's not or get them on a topic. Yeah, or get them on a topic, exactly. Find something that you can then continue to tangent off of. But guys aren't initially usually very forthcoming with sharing about themselves, so like sometimes it is me talking about some stuff, different things around town, and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

My brain immediately goes to think of what you just said and then apply that to dating. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Oh my god, yeah. So much so. It's so bad. But yeah, so very very much read the room and kind of just gauge what they're comfortable with because, like, I don't share my background with just anybody, just because I don't know how people are gonna take it sometimes for the podcast audience. Um, I'm I am technically a convicted felon. I've got some marks on my record, just so to speak, but it's from a past life of mine, basically. And so I Well, and you've grown a ton since then.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

Yeah, lots of time has passed.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yeah, and it's not something that you would ever assume looking at me or conversating with me. Those of my clients that do know are usually very surprised by that fact. Um but it's just little things like that that I I keep I keep some of those things very close with lots of people because I don't want to give them the wrong impression or wonder if they've got their own bias about things in their own.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

Might be subject to a stigma that you're like is unnecessary.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Yep. But at the same time, those that do, I've found so many people in my chair not only are understanding, but are almost like kind of proud of me in a way. And then because of that background, I'm able to then relate to some of the people in my chair that end up with that similar background, which is really cool when I get to be that real authentic with somebody.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

I also think it's a it's a great opportunity for people that once you've built a basic foundation of a rapport with them, if you do finally divulge that information about yourself, and if they did previously have a bias against those people, that them getting to know you prior to that knowledge really helps to open up their understanding so it kind of breaks down that bias.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yes, very much so, and that's a great opportunity, very much so, and I think that's what is fulfilling to me most when when some of those unexpected people are proud of me or or shocked and surprised, and that's kind of the thought that goes through my head is like, see, you would never know, and like people can change and grow and do, and so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Like mistakes made in the past do not mean that you have to be punished for them throughout your entire life.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Honestly, my favorite some of my favorite conversations, regulars aside, because of course we've got our regulars that we have great chats with, but like some of my favorites are that first-time client because I get to just open up a world of them. I'm just asking you questions. I want to get to know about you, your family, your job, all of those things. Second haircut with that person is a little bit different because I'm like, what did I ask you last time already? What did we already like because some of it's a memory game, it's like I have to remember things.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

Yes, and like I want to make them feel special in a sense because like I want to remember these things, but like there are so many people in our chair, and most people do realize that whether it's like I have one barber's name to remember versus we have hundreds of clients.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yes, yes. That was the hardest thing for me was remembering names and putting like being able to look at a name on my schedule and be like, I know exactly who that is and what's happening today. But I used I don't remember who gave me the advice about saying their name.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Saying their name three times at least.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Yeah. And so, like, even when they're like first-time client going out the door, have a good day, so and so, and just helping get that in there.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Yep. And the visual does help uh reinforce it.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

That's the like the majority of the time I don't know how to pronounce people's last names because I never hear them. It's like I I can spell it, I know what it looks like on paper, but don't ask me to say it.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

I find it funny. I sometimes don't know what to call people when they have a name that's usually they go by the shortened version. Like Michaels that go by Mike.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah, yeah. And so like I never know whose is what's is whose, like who to shorten. So I just don't. You get you whatever you sign up with in my book is what you get called until you tell me otherwise. Yep. That's just what you get.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

Early on in uh some of my clients, uh, I had a Chuck and I had a Charlie. And I accidentally called Charlie Chuck once, and he was not happy with that. I was like, uh, I am so sorry. Because I feel like that's a either you like it or you don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, fair. And he was a he don't. I do have one time when I got a referral, and you already know this, but like for the audience's sake, um referral and my longtime regular client because I have established a firm understanding with the majority of my clientele that I am very uh discerning when it comes to taking on new clients. And so referrals I have impressed upon my regulars that they have a responsibility to refer good quality people to me. Yes. Not just anyone. Yeah. So this particular person took it so very seriously so literally that he set up this referral with all of the information. He gave this person my entire barber life story. And like told him about, you know, the dog he will meet, and you know to bring a snake. He brought treats for him and like he knew everything about me basically when he first sat in my chair. So f usually first haircut is a a mutual getting acquainted with one another. So it's a give and take of information that it's reciprocated. Yes. And I had nothing to offer this man, and I was at such a disadvantage because I'm like, I have nothing to give you because you already have been given it. I feel like someone has stolen from me because they gave you so much information. So I'm stuck having to ask all the questions, and I also feel like I'm interrogating somebody when I'm just asking questions and I'm not offering anything in return.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

It makes it hard because in the back of my head, one of the things that is taught to us in school is make sure you don't make it all about yourself. Make sure it is it is a lot of them speaking, and so like that's where I get in my head sometimes because if I feel like I'm hearing my voice too much, I question where the conversation is going, and that's why it was hard for some of the non-chatty guys with me, because I'm in my head about it. I'm like, I shouldn't be talking this much. I really shouldn't be talking this much. But they just don't, they're just not conversationalists, they're very like one-word answers, just kind of monosyllabic. Yeah, they just wanna get their haircut.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

Well, and and I kind of gauge whether or not their eyes are open. It's like whether or not I'm gonna talk to them. If their eyes are closed, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

I'm not. I'm letting you take your your solace.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Uh but because typically my clients have much more eventful lives than I do, I have plenty of like curiosity questions going, oh, like have you finished the bathroom project yet? Uh, you know, oh, how's you know kids' sports stuff going? Whatever things that I know are going on in their life, like I I am curious about updates on. Yeah. But on the occasion that I have actually gone and done things, because it's so novel, I can actually take up a majority of the conversation telling them about them once in a while. I don't feel bad about that because it's like, for once I have something to talk about. So it's not like me monopolizing the conversation, it's more of the they get a welcome break that they don't have to talk about themselves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

I definitely get what you mean with like the interrogation factor though, especially when because I was taught to not talk too much about myself, I tr I'm usually not very just like forthcoming with the like rebuttal of my own question. Like if they don't then ask like the follow-up back to me, I just continue to ask questions for them, you know what I mean? I don't want to just word vomit my life story sometimes, and so I just it it becomes almost like interrogation style because I'm just like question after question.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

Also, I I tend to ask those questions as leads, so it's the if they don't reciprocate the question in return, that's fine, but I still take it as a an opportunity for me to offer that information to go, yes, you know, if I've asked their opinion about a particular topic, and I'll go from my personal experience, yes, this is kind of what I found, or I'll also like offer an alternative perspective to what I think personally, or I won't go into what I think personally, and I'll only offer simply an alternative perspective that is at least worth discussing. Because I I'm I'm very much a big fan of extending the ability to grasp alternate perspectives on whatever issues exist, like whether I personally agree with one perspective or not, I like to represent other viewpoints when at all possible.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

So yeah, even if it's not your own.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Right, and that allows for continuation of a conversation. But that also does take practice and like exercising that. So I'm curious, what do you find are the most difficult type of client to talk to?

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Honestly, sometimes the quiet ones.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Like the Like you find any particular demographic or like um background uh pattern?

SPEAKER_01 12:03

No, only because my my clientele list honestly isn't that diverse. Like it it pretty much is a very similar background palette.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Yes and no, because I mean you have like really young kids, which can sometimes be difficult.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah, fair. Mmm, teenagers.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

Teenagers, yes, some of the teenagers. Middle school to early high school are like pulling teeth.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yes. The rarity that I get a chatty one that wants to talk to me about stuff, one in a million.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

I let them uh take the driver's seat. You drive the conversation. Whatever you want to talk about, dude, I'm happy to talk about it with you.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

I will even ask you questions for you to tell me more, even if I still don't understand what video game you're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Yeah, you want to talk about Fortnite?

SPEAKER_01 12:46

You want to talk about uh Roblox? I will ask you all the silly questions and give you minor frames of reference from what I know of those things.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

Yeah, t take my ear off with Minecraft. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Yeah, but it's it really is like pulling teeth. And what makes me the most uncomfortable that can is depending on the parent that's with them. If they have a parent with them, sometimes that helps because then I can conversate with the parent and we can just like have a shop talk, and then the kid'll perk up a little bit, but like if parents just over there on their phone and has no interest, I almost get in my head and I'm like, I feel like I should be talking more to this kid. Like I feel like more needs to be being said in this barber shop right now. It's too quiet. I shouldn't be hearing just clippers, but every time I ask him a question, I don't know what else to do with it.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Yes, it's the when you give me a one-word answer, I have nowhere else to take it. Yes. I have one of my teenagers, um, I cut his dad's hair too, and the last time he was in my chair, I was really just getting tired of not talking. I mean, I'd love giving an efficient haircut, but like at some point I'm really tired of like doing a 15-minute haircut on you because we're not talking. So I'm like, alright, look, next time, can you do me a favor and like read a book, watch a movie or something before you come in to see me? We need like to be able to talk about something, alright? I can't do all this lifting. Yeah, watch a YouTube video on something that you can tell me about when you get here. Yes, something. Yeah. I don't care if you want to just talk my ear off about football. You can do that. Go ahead. I will mm-hmm. Interesting. Like, I can't contribute much to that conversation. But if you want to talk to me about it, cool. But I'm kind of done with the silence thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Yeah. I will say I I also have to like I had to, I shouldn't say have to, because it's it's gotten easier the further I get in this career. But like, there's no such thing as stupid questions is something I remind myself because, like, my curiosity, no matter how silly the question may seem, I'm genuinely curious about what you're talking about. It may seem like a silly question, but please explain to me what you're talking about because I want to get where you're at. And so I appreciate when they are able to do so and are willing to do so. Like, anybody that's talking about something related to finance or their job involving science or 3D printing. Like, I'm just curious about what that looks like in your career. Like, just because you tell me that you do something, you're a engineer. Okay, of what?

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Yeah, what kind of engineering?

SPEAKER_01 15:28

What exactly are you doing? Like, are you Mechanical, electrical? Yeah. Are you actually touching and doing things? Are you just like on a computer all day? Yeah. Like, what does this look like for you? And like it seems like a silly question, like, oh, what kind of engineer? But it's not. Like it's like I I just want to know.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

That's like going, oh, I'm a doctor.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Of yeah, right? Or of medicine? Literature? What? Yeah. Because I was such a people pleaser when I was a kid, way worse than I am now. I also had to be honest when people are asking me if I know about things. You know what I mean? Because when I was younger, I would lie and say yes, that I knew about these things because I wanted to be a part of fit in. Yes, I know all about skateboarding. Didn't know nothing about skateboarding. But now, uh it's okay to not know stuff. It's you don't have to fit in with everything, you don't have to be all-knowing. I hope nobody ever wants to talk actors with me because I'm oblivious. I try, but it's just not.

SPEAKER_03 16:33

You also have to have seen movies to if somebody's gonna like try and give you a reference to the actor if you don't know the name.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

So many things.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

So you have some background work to do if you ever want to talk about the show.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

I need to watch a movie.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

What clientele base do you feel like is most difficult for you to talk with?

SPEAKER_03 16:52

Oh, 100% teenagers. Teenagers?

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

It's just like dragging stuff out of them. Uh kids sometimes, but I have enough interests that young children have to be a Disney freak. Yeah. That I'm it's not terrible, like, but now like I am I am too old for the TikTok. I am I'm I'm too old to to get those things. And I'm too old to have new apps, like, as far as social media goes. Absolutely not. Um I'm not going to try and be that person. You know, I'm I'm almost 36, like I'm not gonna be something I'm not. Yeah. Yeah. But at the same time, it does work in my favor being of that age because stuff is coming back around that was popular when I was a teenager. So I imagine it will hopefully start to be a little bit easier. Yeah. But also I'm gonna feel old at the same time. So that's an internal thing that needs to be addressed as far as con uh conversations go. So there's that. Also, there are people who it's really just figuring out like those first conversations, because I hate I hate small talk. So I refuse to engage in small talk outside of something that I genuinely want to talk about, like the stupidity of the weather, I will bring that up with anybody.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Like a regular, just because like these are things that we're all experiencing today. Yes. And so, like, today's weather we will talk about, or like some major storm or whatever. And that, you know, that is a small talk, you know, superficial sort of a conversation, but it does affect our daily life. Yes. And especially here in New England, it's a factor. So, like, that's as small talky as I get. Otherwise, what I do with new people after I get the the basic questions of their background and such is I will ask random questions that are in my brain. And I am full of random questions.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Give us an example.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

My Google search history is just random questions that pop into my head. Same.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

Like, why do you get a pickle with a deli sandwich?

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Oh, I know exactly why you get a pickle with a deli sandwich.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

That's a fun fact I do know.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

Yeah. Well, so I've I had that question in my brain eight, nine years ago. Mm-hmm when I knew a deli owner. So I went, go to the source, right? Like, let's not operate the internet right away. Let's let's ask somebody that owns a deli. I asked, he has no clue.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Most people don't even know that it has a purpose.

SPEAKER_03 19:32

Well, that's the thing. It's like something that's been done for that long, there is a purpose to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just whether or not it's survived people's knowledge. Yes. And so I had to Google, and it took some serious Google searching. And this was, of course, pre-COVID, and Google has adjusted their search algorithms, and you can't you can't find things now the way you could before. But this took digging to like pages into Google to find the answer. And I finally found it and was like, this makes sense. And this was even before I went to butler school. So before I was taught like the understanding of the function of wine with meals, of being a palate cleanser, especially when you're dealing with like heavier things that coat your palate. So the function of the pickle being a palate cleanser for heavy meats, deli meats that are coating your palate, you can't really taste it part way through. So that being the function was like, ah, that makes so much sense. But I really do like the old school uh conversational topics of barbershops. Like, that's one of those things that made barbershops a community hub. That's where information was exchanged, and those types of things happen. Like that's that's where a lot of people are educated on just random things. The town knowledge. Yeah, it's the you ask people because they didn't have the internet to just ask the internet. And now more and more we can't trust things on the internet upon first searching and such. So trusting people's experience is far better. So I'm way more likely to first ask somebody in my chair a random question because even if they don't know the answer, it gets them thinking. Yeah, yeah. Which in and of itself is a great thing to do. Yeah. Go, yeah. Now you're gonna ask your friends. I wanna know this, so next time you got a month. Yeah. Figure it out. Circle back. Yes. So that that's extra fun. Like it gives people something to do, something to think about. Like it's very engaging. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

I I do occasionally go the random question route. Um, I also like to read my random Google News articles, and my algorithm gives me a wide array of useful and useless information. And so I just like to pop up with in fact, sometimes I'll start my day reading over Google News things just so I have some fresh articles in my head, so that way I can bring them up if like the conversation starts to.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Be like, did you hear about the cocaine shark?

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Yes, dude. So wild.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

So wild. What I kind of want to know, because we have and we're within earshot of each other. How often do you get like eye-rollingly annoyed at hearing the same conversations over and over again from my side?

SPEAKER_01 22:21

That's just a you problem, Brie. I don't hear you. That's not that's not what happens. You don't want to implement the same torture that I instill on you.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

So the question is, how many times do you hear?

SPEAKER_03 22:41

I find your conversations to be uh entertaining. So like even in repetition, they're still entertaining to me. So like it's never a problem.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Yeah, I usually try to change my delivery just a little bit between clients, so it's just not uh a verbatim like I'm reading off a script, even if I'm telling the same story.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

I'm a little bit of the opposite where I kind of use clients as an audio a test audience to perfect how I get a story. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So once I've hashed it out and perfected the story, yes, it will come out verbatim, basically.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

And then also depending on the client as the day goes on, like depending on who you land with, at least for me, because like I'm so animated in my facial expressions, my body language, my hand gestures, the whole thing volume. Yeah, so like me telling a story changes on the audience, like, especially depending on like my comfort level with them, like how much of my goofiness do you have you already seen? Yes. So, like, how much can I flail my hands and wave my head around while I tell this story?

SPEAKER_03 23:55

Well, and that's really part of the perfecting the story process for me is the further I get into it, like once I've gotten the right words to I feel like are expressing my sentiments and thoughts accurately enough, I will then incorporate more facial expression and body gestures the more comfortable I am with the person. Yeah, you know, and so that means that they actually get to see more of my personality because I am not an expressive person, so that when I do express, it's all the more punctuating. Yeah. We're like comedians, like working crowds. Yeah, exactly. It always is always nice to be able to talk about what book I'm currently reading if somebody is interested in hearing about it.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

I will say you do have a fair amount of readers, it seems like.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

That's when those things are discovered.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 24:57

And then incorporating it into the shop as like a thing.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yeah. Look. Look at what I have, look at what I love.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Any books look familiar? Have you read any of these books? Are you interested in reading any of these books? Maybe I've read it and maybe I can tell you whether or not it's worth reading.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Ooh, another client that's hard for me sometimes is when I have the older gentlemen that have to take out their hearing aids for the haircut. And so I so often catch myself wanting to ask them something, but then they don't hear me. Like there's no I've had I've got a couple guys that are like deaf deaf. So like once they're out, game over. I'm I'm talking in hand gestures to you to see if you want your hair shorter.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

Like that's well, and that's not like common for anybody with hearing aids to be stone deaf.

unknown 25:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Um but like yeah, I can see how that'd be a little frustrating for you. However, my typical client who has hearing aids can still hear, you just have to speak up. And that's difficult for me because I am not a loud talker and I don't like raising my voice. I I can see how that wouldn't be a problem for you at all.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

No, I just have to compete with the clipper because it's right next to their ear.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Yes, I just I just pull it back a little bit. I do have to remember to do that with my trimmer when I'm talking to somebody. I'm like, oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

And I'll tell you what, some of those hearing aids drive me nuts. Yeah, they'll sometimes set them down and I have to like separate them, I have to put them in their respective corners because they just yell at each other and I hear it.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Well, I will say that any client of mine that has hearing aids, they're all phenomenal at turning them off.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Really? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Whether they're batteries or rechargeables, they always make sure to turn them off.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

I've only had one person turn his off. Oh everybody else hands them to me on.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

Um, what are ways that you first gauge how deep or shallow your conversation is gonna be?

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Um, how forthcoming they are with their own information. Because if they're if they're seeming a little more like they want to maintain surface level, then I also do that. Keep it with very like current life stuff. I just won't go past history until I get to learn a little bit more about them. Um honestly, sometimes the amount of cuss words that are spoken from my chair helps me gauge if people will be receptive to certain information. And sometimes just their I guess sometimes their lifestyle, their line of work. Um, I have a tendency to be a little more faster forthcoming with more of like blue-collar people. And that realm of contractor work, those sort of people.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

You're less likely to feel like you might be judged.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. And and in theory, those are like lines of work where felons can even work to begin with. So it's it's a little bit more common for them to have also experienced someone with a little more jagged past, whereas like white-collar people, not so much.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

And even if they did, they may not know it. Yes, it's not something where it's like openly talked about. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Yeah. So yeah, it usually it usually takes a couple appointments with somebody. I will say on the rarity that I do like spit off stuff first, first appointment, it's because they've given me keynotes in their conversation that show me that they either have a similar background or they know someone, relate, whether it's a relative or close person that has a similar, and it helps me be able to gauge it that way. But like if you're just and no offense, this seems very stereotypey, but if you're just like a white-collar dude that goes boating and like playing golf, I'm not gonna tell you about it right away. I'm gonna keep digging to see what kind of person you're like.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Well, and and the you know, when you've made a mistake in life.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Because like there needs to be that that humility so that you can give grace to somebody. Yes, exactly. Because otherwise it's like, oh, if you like, if you think that, you know, your stuff doesn't stink. Yeah. Then it's it's like or then we can't we can't connect. Yeah, yeah. Because that's it's not a a starting place. And I I do tend to hold information back, even I don't have your type of jagged background. But there are certain pieces of my life that I I hold very close to my best. Like I am not an open book, I am a search engine. If you ask a direct question, I will give you direct answers. Because I am a very direct person. I don't suffer people who try and beat around the bush to get to where they want to get. Yeah. Because I see exactly what you're doing, and I'm not gonna give you that satisfaction. Yeah. So, like, that's the kind of person I am. So, even something that most people would be like, why would you like why would you not be upfront about that? Yeah. Because it it's me. Like, I don't necessarily want everybody to know about that, because maybe I don't define myself by that. And maybe I don't want people to associate me with that first and foremost. Yeah. That's one of the reasons why I don't live where I grew up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's because I don't want people to associate or judge me or create their expectation of me based on my family, my background, who I was when I was a child, and the choices I made then. Yep. I don't want that. So I want people to gauge their expectations of me on my merits. Yeah. On what I've done. That's it. So things like me being a military veteran. Mm-hmm. I have customers that have been my customer for years that don't know that. Really? Yeah. Well, because it's not something that I like, it's not what I consider to be like a selling point of me. Yeah. It's just something that I did.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Yeah, and if it doesn't come up in conversation, it's not like you're just gonna boast about it. Correct.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

Yeah. And it's not something I define myself by. It's not something that I, you know, sport uh a veteran plate on my vehicle or or, you know, a veteran hat or anything like that. Like, I don't flex that. Yeah. I don't even go out and on Veterans Day to get a free meal. Like, I just it's not something that I it's not that I'm not proud of it, it's just It was that time of your life. Yeah, it was like it was three years of my life, and I've been out way so many times longer than I was ever in. So many other things since then. Yeah, I I have grown as a person and like I'm a totally different person now than I was then in a lot of aspects. Yeah. So it's really like, yeah, I did that, and I g gathered a lot of knowledge and experience in that, so if it naturally comes up in conversation, like if I'm talking to somebody with a law enforcement background, and I can, you know, converse with my experience with DUIs or surging people or you know, qualifying on firearms, stuff like that. Like it's the alright, I'll bring that up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

But like this is where it it can.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

If it's a connection point, it's the okay, this is a useful connection point, I'll use it. But just like an average I feel like same with your your uh butler school info.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

I feel like that's also one that I guess I've I've heard you mention that to a couple people that I know have sat with you for a while, and the sh like the shock in their reaction, they're just like, wait, what if it comes up, it comes up. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Right. And it's really like, alright, and I if I need to add context to why I happen to have this knowledge on the subject, then I'll do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Like when you're discussing wine.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

Yes. Or like how to clean oriental rugs, or like those types of random things.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

A conversation about how to clean rugs. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

Had that today. Yes. Like you never know what random bit of knowledge that you've acquired over your life that might be helpful to somebody. That's one of the great things about being a barber. And when you have those genuine, interesting questioning conversations with people and finding out what they know, then you can acquire that too. And they don't lose it. So it's like, oh, and then I can, you know, tuck that back in my filing cabinet. And when somebody else, years down the road, is like, oh, uh I have this issue and trying to figure out how to solve it. And I'm like, for whatever reason, this is what's in my head on that subject. Just whip that sucker out. Here's my nugget of knowledge. Yep. I can't tell you necessarily where I got it from. But it's there. It's there. Here you go. It wouldn't come out for this purpose for nothing. Yeah. It's kind of like selective amnesia. Same thing with like when I hear things like, you know, when it comes to the small town drama, I don't know things. I hear things. Yes. Yes. And sometimes people want to know where I heard them from, and I don't remember. Mm-hmm. Because it doesn't matter who I heard them from. Nope.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

I always like to make sure to add in allegedly. When I share information sometimes, because I don't fact check sometimes. Oh no, I sometimes I do, depending.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

I preface with I hear. Yeah, yeah. Word on the street. Like that today. It's like, I hear you guys are in the market for some new employees in your department. They're like, oh, do you cut so-and-so's hair? No, not anymore. I haven't cut his hair for years. I know him. But no, that's not who I heard it from. Oh, who'd you hear it from? Not telling you. I hear a lot of things from a lot of people. Yep. Your secrets are safe with me. Mm-hmm. So are other people's. What is talked about in the barbershop stays in the barbershop.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

And I will remain unsided.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Like I've got two people that were business partners. I cut both of their hair. They were no longer business partners. One of them parted ways. And I've heard, I've actually heard kind of different sides and perspectives of the situation from both. So like that's where it stays though. I don't cross-conversate, I don't say, he said so and so, he said this. And it's just We are listeners. Even though I already heard the information that you're telling me today from him two weeks ago, it's brand new knowledge today. Yep. Brand new knowledge. I will ask more questions to figure things out to act like I never even knew what happened. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

Well, because the different perspective, it could totally a totally different answer.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Oh yeah, absolutely. And regardless, like you're they're telling me a story about something in their life. So, like, who am I to then take this information, say that whether it's right or wrong, and then spew my own version of it back to somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 36:28

Right. Well, and it's very like everyone's perspectives on an issue are valid perspectives to have. Yes. They don't have to agree to be valid. Yes. So oh, and I always try to be mindful and meet people where they are. You're going, I'm dealing with you. This is your time. I care about you. Yep. Just like I have um people who were couples. I've cut both their hair. I've had people who've gotten divorces, and I still cut both their hair. But I I do also make sure to let them know that like you guys don't have to divide your barber. Yeah. Like that's not something that needs to be divvied up in the divorce. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm here for you when you are in my chair. I will not take sides. No. I will be here and I will listen to whatever you need to share. And I will support you in whatever my capacity as your barber that I can do. Yeah. Just like I did before. Nothing with our relationship changes. And so that's how it works. Then fine. Yeah. And anybody with any sort of maturity is good with that. Yeah. It's people who can't be mature and like work past awkwardness or feelings or are overly concerned with their perception of the possibility of other people's judgment. Which I can relate to. Like that's that's a lot of the cause of anxiety, is you know, the fear of being judged.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Yeah, and and the unknown of whether the judgment is even happening or not. Yes. It's just all in your own head.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

So I don't fault anybody who like finds themselves in that headspace. Yeah. But you also can't say that I don't try and put forth the effort to reassure people that you don't have to worry about that from me. Yeah. I can't control the rest of your life and the rest of the people in it. But as far as you are here in my space, this is about you. Judgment free zone. Yeah. I can't say judgment free zone.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

I literally, as I said the words, I like started playing back a couple of my regulars, and I was like, I'm a bit a little critical.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

No, this will be honest zone.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

You will get honesty from me. Yes. And that is a reputation I have built over the decade plus, is that do not ask me a question you do not want an honest answer to. Yeah. Because I will be honest with you. And it may not be tactful. I will reassure you of my uh affection for you, my like that we're cool, but I will still, if it stings, I'm gonna have it sting. Yeah. Because sometimes the truth does that. Yeah. But I'm not going to pull that punch. And I think I get more people appreciate that because in today's day and age, it's so much about saving face or like smoothing things over on the surface and doing the backbiting behind closed doors and with other people. And I don't have the energy for that. No. I am too tired for that kind of stuff. I would rather just get this out of the way. But it is interesting to me sometimes some of the questions I get asked as a barber, like people wanting my opinion about them. Where like genuinely typically we're talking uh appearance or most especially appearance because that's our job. But it's the them wanting to know if I think something looks good or if I think that they look, you know, well enough to achieve something. And it's like I will be honest and tell you that whatever haircut I give you, or beer trim, or whatever service I give you, I will not let you walk out of here without my seal of approval. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But outside of that, I don't have an opinion with the vast majority of my clients of whether or not you look attractive. Like that's not my job. Yeah. And that is a sub highly subjective personal preference. Yeah. So I won't give that information. I will word a vague response to try and like satisfy that question. Yeah. But I'm not going to tell you, yes, I think you could date. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I compare it to the first time somebody asks me about my opinion of a flower arrangement. I don't know anything about flower arrangements. How can I have an opinion? Because I believe an opinion should be an informed opinion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not an opinion out of ignorance on that subject. You go, I don't know anything about flower arrangements, so how can I possibly say whether that is a good or bad flower arrangement? Whether or not I think it looks good or bad. I can't make that determination. Yeah. Because I know nothing about it. I feel the same way about people that like I'm you're a client. I'm not looking at you whether or not you're attractive or not. Like that's not my job. It's like a glitching computer. I cannot answer that question. Yeah. Because that's not the perspective I have. Yeah. Interesting. And that hasn't been asked much. Yeah, yeah. But on the rare occasion it does get asked. It's like. Oh, I get my opinion asked often. That doesn't surprise me though. But this is very different. You're a single woman, I'm a married woman. Fair.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

And I was also, as we were talking, I was like. But I because I not that I am looking to find attraction in my clients, but I definitely sometimes see what works best for them. For sure. In but it is still in an in an attractive kind of way. Like I still have an opinion of how it looks on them personally.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

Yeah, and I do too. But and that is how how I gauge whether or not somebody can, you know, rock a mustache. Yeah. Or like the the framing of their beard and like things like that. But those are visual components. Mm-mm. And that's more of a does it bring balance to your face? Okay, yeah, yeah. So those are objective assessments versus the the personal opinion that is a subjective. Yeah. Like we're looking at it from a professional, we know about balance, density, like working within those things. And because we are professionals, we incorporate that into our opinion of whether or not somebody's attractive.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:02

But when they're just asking the personal opinion part, it's like I I don't have that. Even with somebody I find attractive personally, yeah. I still don't answer that question because I'm not like that's not my place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I am I am married. If that person is married, like those social boundaries cause me to like that's nope, that's not a question I'm going to answer.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

I don't enter that zone.

SPEAKER_03 43:35

That is a professional line. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

So the rare, it is something to keep in mind that you may come across.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

The weird, the the vast array of conversations that occur in the barbershop. Like the amount of times we discuss poop.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Oh my god. It literally does not matter. Not even necessarily. Like Bree and I together. No. Like she could be in her side of the space doing her own thing where I can't even hear her. And then she'll overhear me talking about poop. And then pipe in that they were also just talking about poop. And like it just always happens at least once a week. The conversations go back to poop in some way, shape, or form. Human, animal, on the news. Literally doesn't matter. Always gets back there.

SPEAKER_03 44:28

Like I still remember the conversation about uh what is it? Wombat uh wombat poop. Yeah. Being cubes. And why? And like what their muscles do to make it a cube.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Or even just like discussing how the poop emoji does not look like any pile of poop I've ever seen in my whole life. Well, unless your dog is having a problem. Yes. Then they need to go to a doctor.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

That's the conversations that we have. They end up going so wild. And I I think that's one of the things that I love about this profession is just the variety of people that we get to deal with on a daily basis, just come all different ends of all different kinds of spectrums. Like I've got one client that almost every time I see him, and it's every probably like two months or so, he's gone on a new vacation. Whether it's a backpacking trip in Egypt, or he went to um Italy with his daughter, or we have an ostrich farmer that we get to chat with.

SPEAKER_03 45:40

We know more about Rolls-Royce than we ever thought we would.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

I ever thought I would ever know about a Rolls-Royce. That's for darn sure. I know way more about the anime show One Piece, thanks to a six-year-old who's obsessed with it. You know what I mean? Like, I just get to learn so much different stuff that I wouldn't learn in in my a normal day-to-day life of my life.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

That's one of my favorite things about this job. It's like the endless supply of knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Yeah, and just cool experiences. Like the people that I met that came here from England for a vintage perfume bottle conference convention. Like just the oddest of things sometimes. But it just it's really what keeps this interesting.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

Well, and I also think it keeps uh life in general interesting. It's the if you find yourself being bored, there is no end to the possibilities of rabbit holes you can go down.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Yep. Like, if you're bored, you're not trying. And that's kind of often where my because I am naturally a curious person. And being a natural-born listener, that's really helpful and very helpful in the barbering profession. Yeah. Like to be an active listener is beyond any other skill set you can bring to this. It's super helpful. Yeah. And not just from a conversational standpoint, but like in order to learn. When it comes to information, I suck people dry of their knowledge. Yeah. And leave their carcass and on to the next. Well, when it comes to like the 30, 40 minutes at a time I get people, they like I never exhaust their knowledge. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I can I move on quickly to other people. So like it's more of a.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

I was literally just picturing you as a vampire. I was just like, it's like you're a word vampire.

SPEAKER_03 47:47

Yes, I'm a knowledge vampire. So it's the I'm I'm more like feeding off of you, but you're not ever being killed.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

You're like if a vampire worked in a blood lab.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

I'm a vampire phlebotomist.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

Just all at access to you, just all the knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

Just a vial at a time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't need a ton of bags. Just a little bit. Just a pint, you'll refill for next time. Yep. We'll see you next time you donate.

SPEAKER_03 48:17

But that also means it's like between visits, people experience more life and therefore they have more things to tell you. So I don't need to be uh a risk-taking, adventurous person because I can kind of live life vicariously through people by them sitting in my chair and telling me their experiences. It's kind of great, especially as an introvert. Yeah. You're an extrovert who enjoys introvert tendencies. Yes, exactly. I I enjoy it. I'm an introvert that has extroverted tendencies in the right situation. Any other uh topics of conversation we want to talk about? No, this is a great chat about chats. I love it. Alright, we will see y'all next week. Have a good night.