EP:446 | Talking Turkeys, Deer and Food plots with Kevin VanDam

On this episode we catch up with Kevin VanDam, one of our favorite Gamekeepers, to learn about his turkey season and what work he is doing for the upcoming deer season. Kevin is a fervent outdoorsman and loves improving his farm for wildlife. Apparently, what he is doing is working and we all can learn from his success as well as his trial and errors. It’s all about deer and turkeys.

Listen, Learn and Enjoy.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I'm just worthy and welcome to Gamekeeper Podcast. If you want to learn more about farming for wildlife and habitat management, invite you if you are in the right place. Join the Gamekeeper crew direct from Of C O Planet Haskins Studios as they discuss the latest wildlife and habitat management practices. News and of course money. There's no telling what you'll learn, but I'm gonna tell you, I bet it's interesting. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_05 0:25

We're live in three, two, one. All right, guys. Just one of my favorite guests. We we have him occasionally, we get to spend a little time with him. But I don't know whether to go fishing or talk turkeys or talk deer or talk food plots. He can talk at all. Doesn't matter, yeah. Yeah. He's such and he probably is the best known, one of the best known bass fishermen out there. The goat. And we really don't talk to him about that. Nope.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Well you could just call it gamekeeping.

SPEAKER_05 0:56

You know what? It really is. I mean, there's not many people as well.

SPEAKER_06 1:01

I'm not so sure he'll he'll tell us, but I mean he loves it all. But I would I'm gonna go out on him and say he's evolved to where he'd rather be gamekeeping, taking care of his place and growing his critters than he would even fishing. I'm gonna betcha. Or even you know, hunting as much as he loves to hunt. Well, Mr. Kevin Van Dam.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

There we go. Yeah, man. Glad to have you. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Yeah, it's uh it's great to be be back with you guys again. Uh man, it's a great time of year up here in Michigan where I live, a lot going on. Turkey season's still open, believe it or not.

SPEAKER_05 1:37

Oh wow. I stay open till right at the end of May. The the wall behind you, is that photographs of you and fishing tournaments or you uh with critters or what it's very uh artistically done. Did you do that?

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Uh that's my wife, yeah. It's it's magazine covers that um it's mostly like Bassmaster magazine covers and things like that from over the years. So I'm kind of down in my basement um area. I my tackle room's kind of a it's not an easy setup for podcasting and audio and things like that, where I got all my hunting stuff and and that.

SPEAKER_06 2:12

So it's so much cool stuff and just amazing. Look at all these covers. The history of hey, my coolest one. I took a picture of the coolest one I saw, and I didn't look through necessarily everything up there, but it was on a cover of a box of Wheaties. No, you got to be on your A game to get that.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

Oh, wow. You know, when we get everything out of Toxie's closet, Kevin may be the next one.

SPEAKER_06 2:35

Yeah, sure could. He has a limitless closet. Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, you know what? We need to fly Bobby in there once in his life just to see your shop because he would faint and fall out, and or he would think he'd already died and gone to heaven. Probably would. Every I mean, I don't, you're not gonna go to a tackle store with more.

SPEAKER_05 2:56

So if he needs a red spinnerbait with a chartreuse tail, he can go in there somewhere. He's got it.

SPEAKER_06 3:03

Which of a hundred of those you want to pick from? He's got it. I'm telling you. It's incredible. Plus, he's he's about three-quarters OCD organized, so everything is to the nines organized, too. I can tell that about him. So that's my wife. Yes, she is for sure.

SPEAKER_05 3:18

So, Kevin, well, tell us a little bit about but but we're gonna we got a lot to talk about, but you've you mentioned your wife twice, and she must be pretty important to you. Well, how did you get you got any marriage advice for some of us listening? Have you tell us how you met her and a little story about her, if you would. This is completely off script, so I know I'm catching you by surprise.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yeah, no, it's um so we started dating. Um, I was actually just out of high school and in college, and she was still in high school as a uh senior year. And um my best friend and her best friend put us together on a double date. We went to a uh K Wings Kalamazoo Wings hockey game. And two weeks later they broke up, and you know, whatever, 38 or about 40 years later, we're we're still together. So um, but no, Sherry's um you know a huge part of me and and the success that I've had as a professional angler and just all the all the things that we that we do. And she really is like tries to be in the shadows. She doesn't like to be on camera, doesn't like the limelight, doesn't want to be interviewed, doesn't want to be talked about, doesn't want to take any credit for anything, but she's very uh adamant about our brand, our business, our family, um, our image, uh, all of those things. You know, she's very protective, and you know, it's it's just something that uh she's actually really good at it. And she's really progressed with the times. Um, she's very much engaged and involved in uh social media and because it's so so important part, you know. Like myself, I don't I've been a professional tournament angler for you know most of my life, my adult life. And, you know, so that means you're an influencer, I'm a brand ambassador, you know, I'm a spokesperson for a lot of different companies, um, and have been for a lot of years. And in this day and age, there's lots of influencers out there. And I just, I just really, to me, it's almost a dirty word to be called an influencer because I consider myself a professional and in the way that we do things. Um, you know, I've never been short-sighted, I've never looked to be associated with a company or a brand that I don't truly believe in or don't think that um is gonna be a lifetime partner, you know, and and that's unrealistic because things change and you know, but I'm really proud of the relationships that we've built and the brands that we've been associated with because the majority of them that are have been my whole career. Yeah, it's one time. I mean, even even Mossy Oak for me, um, you know, it's been a part of kind of I've obviously been very aware of it and been wearing Mossy Oak Camero for a lot of years, but um, you know, it's just uh it's different, you know, it's a different group. Um, and you know, we just align so much, and that's what makes, you know, uh makes it real easy for me. I mean, I love like Toxie was saying when we were just chatting beforehand, I'm known as a fisherman, but man, I love to hunt. I love um, I love the tractor time, I like the food plot, and I like the timber management, I like you know, everything about um trying to make my uh piece of dirt that that we have our farms better for deer and turkey and and mallards and wood ducks and you know, squirrels and whatever it is, you know. I mean, we we just really it's a 365-day a year project process. There's always something um to be done. And I love to fish, right? I mean, and it's a great time of the year. It's a it's tough this time of year, uh just like it is in deer season in the fall, because the fishing's so good then as well. You know, I mean, we got turkey season now, and uh bass are spawning. Smallmouth fishing's unbelievable around here. And yet you got fields that need to be sprayed and you know, dirt that needs to be tilled and and seed that needs to get in the ground for for fall. So and I I love it. It keeps me um keeps me well grounded and you know, as busy as I am on the stuff that I do, you know, working now that I've made that transition from tournament angler to you know just a kind of a television host and you know, brand ambassador and doing social media and YouTube videos and things like that. Uh I it's a great way for me to kind of clear my mind is is to hop in the tractor, the skid steer, grab my pick up my chainsaw, or um, you know, put the sprayer on the back of the rig and and go, you know, get things prepped. It's just there's a lot. Even just cleaning trails, it's which is something constant uh that that I have to do up here uh with all the storms and stuff we've had lately. It's it's really therapeutic.

unknown 8:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:32

So Kevin, I wanted to circle back around when we started talking about having you back on as a guest, and there's so much to talk about. I want to get caught up on how your turkey season went. I want to learn at some point what you're doing for your deer herd that that right now or you're planning to do. And and then at some point, uh I got a few fishing questions I'd like to ask you as well. But so, but let's just talk about turkey season. How'd it go this year?

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Well, um, you know, Michigan, and I live in southwest Michigan, and um gosh, we when I was a kid, we didn't even have turkeys. They they transplanted the first ones when I was about 16 or 17 years ago or years old. And um they actually transplanted them onto a property that I had permission to bow hunt at. And um, you know, I when I first saw them, I was like, wow, this is weird. And literally they just took off when they got reintroduced to our area. We're really blessed with great uh habitat around here with a lot of broken woodlots and smaller um ag fields, you know, with mostly corn and soybeans and that, and a lot of houses, and just it's just really diverse habitat with little grass fields and things like that. So it turns out it's really good turkey habitat. I mean, it didn't take four or five years from when they transplanted them until we had the first season around here. And I didn't know anything about turkey hunting early on, but because I love to hunt, I mean, we just hunt whatever was in season. So I started turkey hunting and I didn't have anybody to really teach me or anything like that. So it it took a while, but now um, you know, we definitely I have learned a lot uh about turkeys from uh honestly from a lot of y'all and and just watching things and talking to people and that. So we definitely have them in our game plan uh with all the management practices that we do, which is primarily, I mean, it's always been whitetail deer for us. Like that's that's been that's my jam. You know, I love it's interesting to go out west and elk hunt or mule deer hunt or go other places, but I just love Midwest whitetail hunting and trying to try to grow mature deer around here. Um, you know, I've been fortunate to be able to get a few pieces of property that we um that we work on. And the turkeys are just really uh on a on a great cycle and have been. I was just thinking and looking back at some older pictures because I started um I started my boys hunting turkeys when they were 10, which was you know in Michigan, you have to go through hunter safety and you know be able to buy, you know, every state's different, but it that's when they were legally able to. And um, gosh, man, they they have not really had a year, maybe one or two that one of them hasn't uh gotten a turkey since then. But and we're just a one-bird state, and I think that's what one of the things that helps us be really special too, is that you know, you you just you get one tag, and it uh it we're we're really loaded with them. I I two miles from my house uh adjacent to my property in mid in March 15th this year, I saw one one field there was 52 long beards in at one time, um, you know, just all together. And I'm not Jake's, I mean they were all dang dang tom's and and it's crazy. And it's literally, and at that same time, there was um a dozen at one of my other fields that I looked at 10 minutes later and and 14 in another field. So I mean, we have a lot of turkeys around, and it's it's really made it interesting um for me, you know, when when they when you have somebody like Toxie who's got so much experience hunting different places, you know, from all over the country, Florida, Texas, and that, just to show it to them and then get opinions. So, you know, Chris Paradise, Chris has been coming for quite a few years now, um, now a handful of years, Fred Zink, which Freddie, you know, he travels all over. He's on, he texted me yesterday, he's shot one in Pennsylvania, you know, and uh, you know, he's been Ontario and Michigan and Wisconsin. And I mean, they they uh they they travel around. So it's interesting to get everybody's take on it. Um, because we do everything that we can as far as the you know good edge habitat around the food plots and you know, managing the raccoons and and pot you know the nest predators where we can and and coyotes uh as well. But you know, we've got it all for deer too, you know, that we're that we're working on. So I mean, I I literally, I was just thinking about it. Um I started planting, me and my best friend, we started bow hunting when we were 10. And you know, I'm 58 years old now, and we started our we planted our first food plot with a rake. We we did it with a by hand with rakes when we were 12 years old, trying to get some food for some deer to draw some deer, and there wasn't that many deer around then. So, man, through trial and error over a lot of years, I've you know done a lot of things, and I thought food plots were like one of the main things that you can do. And what I've learned since then is yeah, food plots are very important, but it's the it's the other habitat for us, especially around here, that's more important, especially for for deer. You gotta have thick cover first because we have plenty of food um from all the ag fields. You know, there's there's enough ag fields around that they're not going to have a problem through the winter up here in this area. Um, obviously, food plots help you to um, you know, hold deer in a certain area, or you definitely helping during, you know, with right now. I mean, I I'm just watching fawns pop every day and lots of twins and that. So having good lots of clover is key right now, you know, for for those does and all those fawns through the summer months, and obviously the bucks as well. But um, so having a lot of diversity is is important, but the the timber and your overall habitat and your edge habitat is I I think is more important for you know uh hunting success and obviously for fawning and and turkey nesting than than the food plots themselves. So we put a lot of thought and effort into what we do every year to make it really diverse. And you know, try to I always say I try to make it the outback steakhouse for for animals, you know, where you get a really good salad and you got a really good steak and you get a good sides, and there's great appetizers, and you know, you can also get a get a great dessert all in one spot, you know.

SPEAKER_06 15:31

Go back 24-7.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Yeah, don't forget the super salad bar too. Oh yeah, no doubt. But it's it's a challenge because we've you know, like we're two years out like from EHD here, like where I got decimated on our place. Like we lost for sure 90 plus percent of all the whitetail, um, the total herd. And uh it's it was bad last year, really bad still, and I'm seeing signs of you know, you know, it's they're starting to infiltrate from the edges back into our areas and and that. I I uh Sunday morning I I saw six bachelor group little young bucks all together, so it's gives me gives me hope. But I just know I've lived it before a little bit. We're kind of on the northernmost fringe of of EHD where it hit where it has, and I've I've heard uh horror stories, but until you've lived it like we've lived it, it it it's just man, it's so disheartening.

SPEAKER_05 16:34

Well, circling back to your turkeys, uh would you say your population is expanding? Is it on the rise? It is yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

It is it is at least equal, um, if not on the rise, then what I've seen. What's really cool to me is to watch the ones close on, you know, because I I've got a a pretty good uh piece of property right where I live, um, you know, and and right next door to it, about you know, 350 acres total. And it's really good. I mean, my front yard is I got 10 acres that I that I mow, and I kind of do it as much as anything because turkeys love it. And once summer comes and they're you got a ton of grasshoppers, they're out there and we'll we'll and it's funny how long they keep the polts hit, but once those polts get a little bit bigger, they start showing up, and it's really neat to see um the large groups that you get. I mean, um I had a nest last year that you know I seen, you know, I had 13 eggs hatched out of it.

SPEAKER_06 17:42

Is that the one right by the barn? Is that the one you sent the video? Yep. It looked like an old-fashioned multi-covey flush. He kicked them up and they just kept coming and kept coming and kept coming.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Yeah, it's um it I get concerned when I see a hen that only has three or four pults. And you do see some of that um uh around in our in our area, but I mean I would say, you know, the average is is probably closer to eight than it is to four. And you see some with big groups, you know, these like 12. There was a couple years ago, there were three hens that had, you know, 36 polts in a group. God bless them.

SPEAKER_05 18:25

You'd have to think that every one of their eggs hatched. I mean, that yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. And and like we were talking, I mean, the thing that's crazy is we are inundated with coons and possums and skunks. Like it's unbelievable how many you see, especially the beginning of May and turkey season in the in the open in the pick cornfields and that. It's just like they really come out, they're out there in the daytime. And um, if you we cowdy hunt it at night through the winter with thermals and that in the spring just to see how many are around. And you know, we trap them, I trap them on my places, but the neighboring farms they're not at all. And it seems like there's as many turkeys there as not. I feel like, you know, I know I've got to be making a difference, um, at least on these groups. But yeah, I mean, if I if I have, you know, four or five hands that have successful mess around me, I mean, it might be, you know, 40 or 50 polts. That's a lot of that's adding a lot of turkeys into the into the population every year.

SPEAKER_04 19:29

So it's uh it's unique.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

I I've learned to not take it for granted because I've lived through EHD and whitetails, and I've and I've seen uh you know our the the lease we have and deer lease we have in Kansas used to be just loaded with turkeys and now there's none, like zero at all on on our place there. And that it's just happened in a matter of ten years. So we don't take it for granted, and and I'm definitely um, you know, I keep my eyes and ears to the ground and I love to talk to to people. And it, you know, there's nobody more passionate about turkey hunting than the Mossy Oak family. Uh ever all of you there. I mean, there's nobody, I mean, I I know you guys love everything the outdoors, and and hey, look, man, whitetail are a big part of why we've got to conceal ourselves and why we have Mossy Oak Camo to begin with, but the core of Mossy Oak is the wild turkey. And I mean, waterfowl is important, it all matters, but um you I mean, you guys do more, um, think more about it, work more with conservation groups. So we're I'm very much always listening to these other podcasts and and you know, hearing other people's success stories or failures or problems, you know, where um, you know, because it a lot of my friends throughout the you know the southern tier are not, you know, they're on a decline or they're you know, they're turkey popular in Tennessee, Kentucky, definitely Oklahoma, um, you know, Kansas, even in areas in Missouri where you know they're seeing a real downswing. And it's it's alarming because it's gosh, it's such a a special bird. You know, I mean, it is. We were we were just kind of um uh the other the other day when when I had the boys up hunting with me, it all happened pretty quick. I mean, the the first the first bird that we got, um, we called in and and Freddie was on the gun and and Fred Zink, he shot a really nice Tom. And Chris was with us, and I and he's they tagged that bird and they said, Hey, we're he had his camera guy with him, and he said, Hey, we're gonna go and just do a few pictures. You guys go up here and go around and make the loop and and hunt your way because Chris was about to have to get on the road. He had about an hour left. And uh man, we went and uh got you know, got on a bird and and just it all worked came together and he killed one. And then shortly after that, I killed one. And it just and we were taking pictures and just looking at those birds and just I mean just the how beautiful their uh the feathers are on them and the you know how unique each one you know just the coloration of each each different Tom that that we had there together how unique they were individu individually. I mean it's but pretty dang special birds for sure. It's a good feeling for sure.

SPEAKER_04 22:31

Yeah Dudley had a comment a minute ago um well I was I was just gonna say that uh you know it's obvious if you have all those nest predators running around and you have these healthy populations uh there's something on the landscape that's making a big difference I was gonna I was gonna say I you know it's all a supposition but I think that there is so many other I mean that I don't think their nest predators make it as an important food source to them as ours do here.

SPEAKER_06 23:04

You know you get to this spring and there's really not much left in the kind of food they normally eat. Maybe some of them you know catch fish and crawfish or whatever but I just I feel like you know he talked about there's up there even in the springtime a cut cornfield has good corn laying everywhere because it's so cold in most of the ground not all of it most of it's kind of sandy and dry and so I noticed you know where they had cut cornfields they were just look like freshly cut corn and you know partially harvested cobs and you know it was so I and saying that I just feel like the that there's just more food sources there nest type predators don't target it as much as ours do. And another thing is they haven't had turkeys as long as we have and I think that makes a difference too. So they're thinking but I don't know it may be part of the phenomenon where they don't hammer the nest quite like ours do you know in the South.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Kevin what's a mature long beard weighing up there so that's um that's really interesting because we I I don't weigh them all but um again uh Tyler Peck who's uh you know he's doing he's doing so he's running the social media for Moultrie he he came from Oklahoma and hunted this past weekend and he's like I've been all always I and he killed this turkey he's like this is the biggest turkey I've ever seen he said it's got to be 27 pounds and I'm like ah I doubt it because most of the ones that we weigh uh a two the two year old birds are 22 23 pounds for sure 25 pounders are fairly common and around us I mean there's 30 pound turkeys killed every year um and usually that's early in the season so our season opens in April here in Michigan in the in this southern zone where I'm at um it's really the third week of April there's a youth season right before it uh youth you know weekend and then the turkey season opens and usually the biggest ones are killed early because you know if we get a fairly decent you know mild winter or whatever I mean there's plenty of corn for them to to to fatten up even through the winter. I mean they they come into spring at their best shape before they doing a bunch of breeding and fighting with other toms and that and then as you get into this later time of the year the end of mid-May late May you know they they're definitely just like the Rut for the whitetails you know they're worn down but he killed that bird and it was 25 and a half it was 25.6 you know just over uh 25 and a half pounds that one that he's a big bird killed the other day and I've it surprised me and I I didn't weigh um Chris's or Fred's or or mine we were you know all in a kind of in a hurry to get everybody going and and things like that and to do do some pictures and we were taking you know shooting video and all that so I didn't weigh those but um they seem to be about the same you know I mean so I would say you know you you just don't sh don't see them um under you know for sure under 22 pounds here at all like just what you got man you know Bergman's rule for that's right for all mammals is you know everything is its physically largest size and its northernmost range and I'm not so sure it's not the same with turkeys as well. You know that they we do have some cold you know temperatures and they they've got a uh and gosh you know when when we when then we clean them they're they're still pretty fat and stuff like that but it uh yeah I'd like to think we're doing a good job on our uh out with our biologic for them all year long.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

Yeah go Mac so speaking of the size of of the animals I know deer in your area are just substantially larger body sizes are the turkeys do they have more like fat on the breast when you're cleaning the turkey or is the actual bird itself just a bigger I guess type of eastern turkey it it's they're bigger they're bigger physical size and they are fairly you know they're fairly uh they're fairly fat too you know it seems like but yeah no they're they're just physically bigger and it's interesting when you have um uh you know some of the guys like Walt and Fafov were coming on and hunting with me and filming for years and they just like you know they're they're both you know spent a lot of time in Kentucky and Tennessee hunting those turkeys there kind of in the middle part of the country and you know our turkeys are you know three to five pounds bigger average than that you know same easters and other other areas like that.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

So I I think they are and it's probably just part of um maybe it's you know I don't know w uh where they got these turkeys that they brought from here. I know the ones that they introduced around us came from other areas in Michigan but I don't know where they you know they look I mean the plumage looked just like ours do they have a hard gobble like a Mississippi?

SPEAKER_06 28:18

I mean I've been to Tennessee Arkansas Missouri Kentucky and I mean they sound all sound alike. I wouldn't say they were a duplicate of the southern Alabama you know even the dummy line down there but they're I would say just like you were hunting around here at home.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

The one thing that is interesting to me um and and talking to people that hunt turkeys a lot of other places now it's they're like man I can't believe how much goblin your turkeys do. And they think it's the cowdy populations especially like Missouri, Kansas, stuff like that, where there's it's the cowties are constantly hunting them and they are here too. I mean I can't we have killed a handful of cowdies over the last you know few years coming into the decoys while you're calling and you know or coming in to sit up under you know like they stalk under one that's gobbling on the roost so they're they know to hunt them but I mean it it doesn't seem to have shut them up. And the other really cool thing is like I get a lot of Spartan I run my Spartans all turkey sea really all year long for whitetail and that I get a lot of interactions in my food plots with coyotes and turkeys and they are not that uh they are I mean they're obviously concerned by them a little bit but they are not that worried about the coyotes.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

You know I don't know I don't think that the coyotes are that big of a yeah that's what I was thinking but their coyotes are probably bigger than ours too man I know bobcats love to chase a turkey coyotes.

SPEAKER_06 30:02

Coyotes are big you know what he just said they don't have bobcats that that may be an in indicator too.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Sure could yeah that's that's one uh we were we talk I mean it's funny how we talk about the same things and and um and Freddie and Chris were saying the same thing that they felt like um part of why this region is so good um is that there is not bobcats like there is in Arkansas and Missouri and and and we do have them in northern Michigan but they haven't made it down to us. But like when I was growing up we had no coyotes we only had we had lots of red foxes and gray foxes and no coyotes. And just about really 25 years ago coyotes started showing up around here and now we're we're loaded with coyotes.

SPEAKER_04 30:49

Got a lot of them wily coyote. Change of subject I want to hear about how your soybean fields turned out last year. Like you know we talked to you what maybe late summer and you're you know we you shared a few photos of how good everything was going but uh catch me up on how they how they made it through the fall and winter.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

I I have I have tried a lot of different uh food plots seed different things planting you know from ag stuff to that but the game changer soybeans were probably the most valuable player I've ever uh planted on my destination food plots before and we had a tough year uh basically Mother Nature wise rain wise we had a real dry year after I planted them um you know the year before we got decimated with uh EHD and I had a really I had a great corn crop and just no deer to eat it. So I had some volunteer corn and I you know I had to spray that and obviously you know the the game changer soybeans are they're you know Roundup ready. So I uh you know I once we planted them and they came up I I sprayed them for weeds and they took off and my gosh I had you know deer in them like uh is the deer that we had left we had deer in them all year long and then they I was worried because it was so dry for so long all of August and they stayed green uh you know had a lot of a lot of leaves on them they're definitely not like an ag bean in that sense they're they're bushier they're taller um they they have a lot more foliage to them a lot more leaves but at the end of the year they they pot they potted out really good and had a lot of soybean pods and it lasted all through the winter and we ended up having a super cold snap and a lot of really deep snow and we'd get you know when I say snow we had 125 inches here this year. Oh my gosh total so that's a lot of snow but not all at once okay so we'd get we'd get a big dump uh maybe two feet 18 inches or whatever and then you get a little melt off and then it would crust and that it makes it so hard for the deer and turkeys because they just can't paw through that frozen snow uh very very well and uh man those soybeans fed a lot of deer and turkeys through the winter and even I mean our snow was here till mid-March this year and the last time the last melt off we had I mean they ate every bit of it um that was above that snow line and there was probably 10 inches 12 inches of hard frozen snow that they couldn't get to and when that melted off I mean it it exposed another layer of of soybeans to them and it just it kept them through so in February I I went there and just sat in one of my blinds and counted and I had over 20 rack bucks still in those soybeans and I mean there wasn't 20 in the county in in the fall because of the EHD so we drew a bunch of deer that that found that um that found it and I mean it it really did an amazing job. The only thing that even comes close to providing that kind of tonnage or forage I would say is clover but you know from a for a grain type you know corn or soybeans gosh I'm a huge fan so I I'm you know on the advice of my farmer buddies that farm my stuff I'm rotating it into corn again this year but I'm I'm definitely putting those soybeans again in next year in that uh that that that food plot so I had 15 acres of them toxie and it was in the my big you know we call it the South Field where you know that that you know that little woods clover plots in the center of it the whole thing was soybeans and it just uh they were amazing. You send me pictures of it was incredible.

SPEAKER_05 35:07

Well what I remember about that Kevin is it was like way into September and they were still green.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Yeah they they stayed greener longer than any um you know and I planted them early too so that's a that's another big thing that I've learned um especially if you're planting any kind of cereal grain stuff or things like that that you know you really it's you're almost better to do it later. You know my uh my farmer buddies that are farm professionally I mean they're good about getting stuff in early but I mean if you plant early I mean the it's the first thing that comes up and the deer a lot of times especially if you got a high deer density like we've always had I mean they just decimate your corn or your soybeans right from the get-go and it's hard for them to power through it and it's just it'd be really hard for me to electric fence that um and I've tried you know some of the other kinds of fencing with the you know the stuff you dip and and it just it don't it don't keep the animals out because it's not just the deer but it's the raccoons and the squirrels and everything else but they powered through all of it um last year and even in the conditions that we had I just I was dumbfounded that um they stayed as green as long as they did and then they weren't it took a long time for them to start uh you know forming bean pots and I and I thought you know maybe it's just because it's a southern variety it's a longer season it's designed to be a longer season and and and it may not even work here in Michigan but anybody that lives in the Midwest anywhere or Michigan or even upstate New York or anything like that if you you gotta plant the game changer soybeans if it's so much better. I've planted ag beans for for 25 years now 30 years we've been doing it intermittently and I just can never get them to to make it through um the browse pressure and these absolutely they're just they're designed to be more of a a forage you know be a more of a leafy you know grow more leaves and things like that. And they pot it out later which is you know once the you know it's it's early that you really struggle with that forage pressure on them. And uh you know so they really actually they probably work better in this northern region than than they they would in a southern region in that sense because it they they stay greener so much longer when there's nothing else uh available so they were there was definitely um the the deer that we did have around they were all in it um you know right up till October I mean they they basically stayed green until October.

SPEAKER_06 37:58

What a bow hunting spot that was I mean yeah there's there you can you really can't beat for the opening of bow season. I know you a lot of people try to time to have their plots that are going to grow all winter up and you know and that's okay but there's the other thing is you've been training them all summer to go there too. And you know as you know they're group seven they're a late maturity variety they basically won't they'll stay green till it has a hard frost. And you know they're not they're not timed out like a lot of the farmers around here their beans will mature in September.

SPEAKER_05 38:31

Yeah they want them to so they drop right and harvest.

SPEAKER_06 38:34

So I mean they're not I I'm gonna bet for ag purposes that uh those beans are more prevalent in the north anyway than they are in the south. But we've always known those late numbered beans that that you know they'll stay green until a a frost that you know but still make head they'll still head out.

SPEAKER_05 38:53

Yeah oh yeah they'll make soybean pods too. Well and the the other thing about them is it'll make a guy who doesn't have a lot of agricultural skills look really good because you can plant them and you can clean them up with since they're Roundup ready and glyphosate.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Oh it's they they were really good and I and honestly they don't take you don't need a bunch of fertilizer for them or or anything. They they really uh it it surprised me you know because I plant we plant everything you know I mean I love to plant radishes for that early bow season you know and gosh I just if if you don't have a huge batch of them I mean they just they decimate them the second they come out of the ground I I have that trouble with all of our brassicas too like the winter bulbs and sugar beets that's my favorite brassica mix and I usually mix in radishes with that too to try to help the browse pressure because in a lot of places in in the south or in the Midwest they supposedly the deer don't eat them when they come up but I second they're coming out of the ground my deer are eating them. And once they learn they've learned over the years to do that. So you know I've I'm still planting those in some of my you know perimeter smaller plots and things like that because that's that's where you can but uh so Kevin changed soybeans are if you got a you know a couple acres an acre or or more it's I'd highly recommend them.

SPEAKER_05 40:18

Yeah that's that's good advice Mac it's one of our best kept secrets.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

Yeah and what's what's neat one thing no one's mentioned is there and it's an interdeterminate bean so it'll flower at differing times. So like you'll have pods on certain plants where you won't have pods on the other plants which makes it you know more browse tolerant and more of a forged bean too so that that's really neat. Then and you don't have to with the nitrogen spike the cost of nitrogen is heavily increased this year. Oh god so if you are going to plant something soybeans don't need the nitrogen that's right so it will I mean 30 60% increase in nitrogen cost.

SPEAKER_04 40:56

Potentially leave you some nitrogen for your fall plot that's coming up same with clover vetches great great peas.

SPEAKER_05 41:03

So Kevin while we're here would you give a little advice to guys in the north when are you timing your fall plots? When ideally when are you trying to get them in the ground? And let's let's let everybody know you're southern Michigan right through there.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Yeah we're we're um I'm an hour from the southern border of Michigan and if you draw a straight line between Detroit and Chicago I mean that's we're we're right in the middle of that and um I try to have my dirt ready the beginning of August and we'll we try to follow the weather and try to plant before rain just you know if we can so anywhere between the 1st and the 15th is prime time for your for your fall plots. I mean that's when I try to do my brassicas um you know if we're gonna plant if I'm gonna do a clover plot especially um you know clover I've just learned I can't I can't get a good stand of clover without too much weed competition doing it in the spring. So I I plant them in the you know August time frame and plant it with some cereal grain and make some brassicas in there just knowing that you know you got to have something to for those deer to be browsing on early and then knowing that you know in the springtime it's going to be a a great you know clover plot. So you get I'll get a stand of clover you know it it's okay that first fall but it's the second year where I mean it's just it just comes in really really really good that way by doing it that way. But all of that stuff there you know we want to we want to do it by then if you're gonna plant just a cereal grain you know we definitely want to do it later and um you know I like to I like to mix some oats in with mine because it's it's easy to get rid of them compared to cereal rye even cereal rye's a lot a lot tougher but um yeah you know it's going to it'll seed out the oats will even seed out by planting it that early up here you know later in the fall but it just provides some cover seems like some shade and um you know the winter kills it off and by in the spring and it's even under the snow it's it's doing really good. And we'll I frost seed it just to be sure but man that's that's the time for us to to do it. And I've pretty much gotten it down now where you know I mean I I really I either we're gonna I'm putting clover plots in that I want for the next year or I'm really focused on uh you know brassicas and and the you know the the the sugar beet winter bulbs and sugar beets that's the that's kind of my go to up here. That that's what the deer really like my deer.

SPEAKER_05 43:50

So we're sitting here now in May as turkey season is winding up for you you you're about to turn the page and start thinking about deer hard and heavy have you got any other projects That you intend to do this summer that to work on the habitat or any what what what kind of things is Kevin doing?

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Yeah, so um I basically some of I'm starting to think about those fall plots already and um kind of getting them into shape. Um I just really like to if if I've got a bunch of weed competition in there, I don't want to have it to where it's a gnarly mess. So we're going to uh get those sprayed. And then I like to plant a few other things too for them. So I plant I like to plant sunflowers. Um they're they're they're cool to look at, but they're also great habitat for um the deer and the turkeys both. So I'll I'll plant some sunflower patches um, you know, you know, right now too. And I actually I like to plant oats right now too, if I'm going to put that into a fall plot. So we'll we'll do that right now and let those completely seed out. And I'll basically almost use them like they're gonna be fertilizer for my fall plots that way, and just um you know, spray them and till them back in into the ground, and it just really helps with seems to help with weed competition as well. So I'm doing that. And then I've always got like timber projects that we're thinking about and and working on. And what I do a lot of is small little uh clear cuts, like one to three acre sections where you try to, you know, look take where there's some low-value trees and just drop it all into a gnarly mess. And so we'll do that. Uh I like to do it different times of the year. If you do it um in the late, late winter, early spring, yeah, you'll get regrowth the first year, you know, out of those tree stumps and things like that. Um, it seems like I don't like to uh I I like to just when I'm doing this, instead of hinge cutting, um just depends on the trees. I I like to just drop it all in a mess. And it just it's so much you get so much more uh woody uh forest floor cover, and and it it's great to do it in an area where there's almost no light penetration at all. And because those it's exposing seeds and plants that haven't seen anything ever, and it just explodes, you know, when you when you do that. So if we we just do them in different phases and stages on a piece of property, so it's like you know, one of them I got some of them that are seven years old now. I got some, you know, every every two years, you know, so you you got different maturity levels um you know that there in the timber. Just add some diversity to it in some of these bigger pieces. And Toxino is like the the newest farm that I have. Um, it's all it's it's been logged, but it's been more than 10 years ago, and it's a made it'd be a major project, but I've I really need to get in there and uh get a logger in there to work that that particular one over. Some of my other smaller woodlots and that, it's easier for us to do where we can do some of these little areas and uh and you know, not worried. And I'm not doing it for I know a lot of people are worried about the timber value and things like that, but we're we're doing it with soft maple and uh ash and and stuff that just really you you just it just doesn't have any real value or or really any nutritional value you know that the deer are using for either, or very little comparatively to like your white oaks and things like that. So and I try to even open up areas where I've got a lot of oaks, cut everything around them, and it just it seems to make those just explode with acorns when you do that, when you partition around them away.

SPEAKER_06 47:57

Interesting you said that about he doesn't he doesn't believe in like the hinge cutting. I've seen several negative articles and or a lot of pseudo pieces of research on the hinge cutting actually can make things worse than you wanted along those lines if you just lay it over. And I know sunlight sunlight, which is great, but it kind of it kind of leans to more towards what he's doing in the the old Dudley Hack and Squirts is a better way to go than you know the select cut to me is the ultimate way to go, you know, where you can preserve a few of the preverged species and then open up a bunch of stuff. The savannah effect is what it calls it.

SPEAKER_04 48:37

And you don't really hear of anybody um using what's it called, where you lay the tree down and don't cut it all the way. Hinge hinge hinge cut. Yeah. Uh I mean it's it's more common in the north, but it it seems like fewer and fewer people are doing it now. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

So Kevin it doesn't um it depends on the tree species. It's hard to do with a lot of them. You just can't you you can't cut enough of them to get them to lay over. Certain areas I I think it it definitely works better um than others. And you know, everybody's got a different um, you know, game plan. I I know like certain areas, like cedars are a big thing in some of my friends in the Midwest and Missouri and and that and uh southern Illinois. Um but thermal cover is important too, you know. We we plant uh a lot of Norwegian spruce around you know, around the edges and stuff of our property, and it it it's a great wind barrier. And man, it's the turkeys love to nest around it. I mean, I've got them in my yard. I got I got a mallard nesting underneath one of them right now. It's it's crazy. He's under a pine tree, not not under in a grass clump or anything like that. So it's it's interesting. So we try we try to um you know add a lot of diversity, you know, to it. So that's a we do have a big project coming. Like I'm on that point again where I want to do plant a, you know, we'll cut a bunch of trees out and we'll plant a bunch of Norwegian spruce because it just it's great thermal and bedding cover, you know, for our deer here. And what what I've learned more in England, because we get a lot of pressure, is that I've got to give them a safe, secure place where they don't have to travel and where I can keep those does around because if they walk around here and they get any age on them at all, they're they're gonna get killed. So we've got to keep them during that, you know, two, three week period during during the rut. Because our rifle season falls on the rut here in Michigan. I've got to I've got to keep those boys close to home during that. I gotta keep I gotta keep them safe for two weeks. Otherwise, um we're not gonna it's hard to get a deer to five years old here. Really hard. Yeah, we can relate to them. You know, I've read we've been fairly successful at it by uh our our timber management practices.

SPEAKER_06 51:13

We're interested on the same subject, but I think it in fact I I think I read an article in the paper, but it was published research, and I think Bronson and company did it, and it was based on sightings of deer with many, many, many multiple cameras. But it was like the least likely place to see a mature buck in hunting season is big timber, big open timber. That's the least likely spot to catch one, not just hunting or even being there. And it's interesting. So many people try to hunt that when I mean maybe the edges are the place, obviously, but uh by far thickets, you know, where they more you would have much greater chance to see on the deers. Do you have a question? And we all know that, but it's funny how you will your mind will go to you know, the big timber, acorns on the ground everywhere, and so forth, and where that is the least likely spot to catch it.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Yeah, it's I I've seen it. So my place, Toxine, you've been there um down just down the street there before we logged it, was you could see in the fall, you know, 100 to 200 yards through the woods anywhere in there. And we would rarely have on that 325 acres more than one older deer that that called it home. Once I logged it and we started doing a lot of these small clear cuts and make it thick, where I mean, a whole bunch of it, you can't see 20 yards now. And you dang sure, even in the fall when the leaves fall, you can't see 40 yards in there. Um, and the theory, like with Bill Winky and some of these other guys and the droweries, is like if if two mature deer eyeball each other, they're gonna fight and they're they're gonna run, one's gonna run the other off. So the thicker you make it, the harder they have it to come in contact, and the better the bedding areas you have, and then you have food around there and you have a lot of dough, you're gonna want to have more, you know, older deer uh around for those reasons as well. And what we've seen is I've been able to have four or five um, maybe not you know, be their core territory, but spend a lot of time on my place by just having it. The most valuable thing I've done is make it super thick, you know, for whitetail.

SPEAKER_06 53:35

But you know, your place is it's you've done that, but you've done it with that postage stamp mentality, that diversity. There's the D-word again, and it's still a beautiful place. I know that thick is not necessarily beautiful, but you've got you've still left a lot of that beautiful timber around, but it's just not huge sections of it. So it's so much better actual habitat that way, but it's still a beautiful place.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

The old patchwork. Exactly. Yeah, and you gotta have the trail system and the access to be able to get in and out undetected. That's probably just as important or more valuable. And I learned that from Mark Drury. He's like, you've got to be able to get in and out without them knowing you're there. And we don't, we don't go, we have a lot of sanctuary areas that we just don't from, you know, when it comes to the season. Yeah, you know, we'll I'll shed hunt it and that, but not even a lot. We try to, you know, minimum uh minimum footprint as possible in any of that, any of those thicker sanctuary areas, especially never during the season. The only thing we would do is to to you know track a track an animal, and we don't like to do that even, you know, so um we try to keep that keep that uh where they don't know you're there.

SPEAKER_05 54:53

Mac, you look like you had a question.

SPEAKER_03 54:55

Yeah, I'm just I'm just thinking about the recovering process of uh EHD. I mean, you spend all this time, you put all this effort into you know farms, and then something like EHD comes and and takes out 90% of your you know your deer. So that's gotta be an absolute heartbreak. And so is there anything that's changed your mentality of how you manage your farms for white whitetail specifically after going through something like that?

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Well, you know, it's it is painful, um, but it's a it's a mother nature, it's a good reset because right away our buck to doug ratio is back to 50-50, which is what it's meant to be. Um and it's just it's gonna take a little bit of time. Uh, I definitely noticed we pulled a bunch of deer in at the end of the year last year with those with the game changer soybeans at the end of the season uh that were not, you know, those were not resident deer. And you know, I mean, I mean I've I looked at 20 different rack bucks at one time. That's before dark. So I I'm guessing there was more that showed up even even later. So I'm hoping that if you you know, if you create that little paradise that a lot of those will, you know, uh find it to be their home range, and that the the time uh length till we we get more older deer back is shorter. Um I've lived it one time before we had, you know, not near as bad, but we got hit in 2014. And five years after that, I had we we had the best year we've ever had. Um and you know, the we we really were in a great place and had a great age structure and had a lot of deer we were really looking forward to. And the year we got hit, um, which was two years ago now, like I had six mature bucks on camera summer time that were like, I'm like, oh my god, we're gonna have the best sea, you know. I mean, there's just we were we were just already making plans, you know, and boy, it didn't take long, and and they started we started losing them and even in July. I lost the first, I had one, I had a doe come into my pond in my backyard toxie uh on July 14th and die in the water there. And I'm like, oh it's I mean, for for EHG to hit that early in the year, we knew, and it just the whole area smelled like rotten animals for for two months. August and September was brutal. But um, you know, we we have a lot of diversity around us, and it's it's very pocket pocketed the way that it works. So the the bottom land section that the majority of what my place is on, we we just got smoked. And then the perimeter, and and I actually border it, um, where there's some higher ground, some timber rolling hills, and that was much less. And we're you know, we just got to attract some of those deer in. And the best way to do that, honestly, is with really good food plots, you know. So I'm we're we're doing our best to try to make all of our little bitty plots that we've got just to be as diverse and as lush as possible to to try to, you know, find, you know, make it a happy place where these where these animals want to come and stay.

SPEAKER_05 58:33

So the whole EHT thing.

SPEAKER_06 58:35

You're gonna buy I feel like you're gonna get a big surprise when they put they they express their horns in a couple months. I think yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

I'm seeing some really nice, I mean, I mean, diameter-wise, mushrooms on my cameras right now. So and I've and I've seen some good signs. And like, man, the fawns are our fawn crop looks like it's gonna be great. You know, I've I've got a good bunch of them just in the around my house in the yard in the last week. So they're really um this is uh peak fawning season for us right now. I mean mid-May, mid-May to mid-June is when uh they all hit the ground.

SPEAKER_06 59:12

We're like July.

SPEAKER_05 59:14

So Kevin, what uh what through the years, what's the best uh everybody's got a well, we grew this one one year and he scored 165 or whatever.

SPEAKER_06 59:23

Bobby, Bobby and score.

SPEAKER_05 59:24

What are you what are you what what are you you're what's some of the top end animals you've grown?

SPEAKER_01 59:29

Uh so the the highest score in deer that I have uh or that me or my boys have killed on our place is was a uh a six and a half year old uh 165-inch 10-point. And that was just a few years back.

SPEAKER_06 59:44

And then that year, um Yeah, your your neighbor killed one of yours that was bigger than that, didn't he?

SPEAKER_01 59:50

Yeah, yeah, we've had we've had some we've had some good ones or you know, some really good ones around. But but the the main the thing that was really good about that year is that we all the three me and my boys each killed a mature deer on our place the same year. We had a six and a five and a half year old, a six and a half year old, and a nine and a half year old that that we killed. And the nine and a half year old didn't score like 127 inches, but still just nine and a half or ten and a half. I'm not sure. It might have even been ten, but it's it was old, old deer. But to have three deer over five and a half like that, um, that's what we're trying to do. Um, I I killed one this past year off my place that is a bully buck that's a six-year-old eight point that's like he was like 129 inches. And you know, we're on an EHD year, didn't really want to, but this deer hasn't changed in two years. And so we and he was nocturnal and just uh really challenging one, but we got him out of there. So um I'm hoping. Big big thing for us is that we I deal with that more than anything. I I'm gonna say for us to get a really top-end mature animal in there is you you gotta make sure that you don't have those deer that you know for sure are four or five years old and are genetically not what you're what you're looking for. Um you you you gotta get those out of your your place. And I I used to always try to let them go and let for the kids to get them or whatever, and and but I've learned you better get them the first time you see them when you know for sure. It's it's different now because um you can do you know, we can keep much better tabs on them, you know, with with uh those Spartan cameras have really helped me a lot because pictures are one thing, but those 15-second video clips, they just they tell you so much more about any animal, you know, whether it's a deer or turkey or anything like that. When you watch the video, you they turn their, you know, they see everything. You can really look at their body, their face, their neck, their jaw, you know. I mean, you can really do a much better job. And then, you know, we're shed hunting every year and all that. So we being able to keep close tabs on them. And that's the one cool thing, too, um, about those game changer soybeans is it made it such a uh destination hotspot for these bucks to come to. And I've we ended up finding quite a few sheds. What's what's really amazing too is how late a lot of our deer held their antlers this year, even though we had a cold, cold, cold winter and a lot of snow. I I started shed hunting in February and found a few, but I'm watching them with these cameras. I've got deer up till the third week of March with both antlers on. I watched about 130-inch 10-point chase a doe like it was mid-November, the last week of March in my backyard this year. And that's if if I wouldn't have seen with my own eyes, I would have never in a million years believed it. I'll guarantee you that this buck was within an hour of breeding that doe is the way she was. I mean, he just was never more than three feet behind her tail, ran her back and forth for 15 minutes, you know. Just, I mean, it's it was it was like it was mid-November and it was the end of March. And that's what happens when you have EHD and your age structure and your your your whole herd structure gets so screwed up as you're gonna have crazy things like that happen. And uh, but it was really good to see so many deer hold their antlers as long as they did, so you know they came through the winter healthy. And you know, I hope I we have a little bit to do with that, with the job we're doing on our management.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:49

Well, guys, what else should we be asking him?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:51

I think we've run out of time. We've kept him along. I just have always heard, you know, you can't be a fisherman and a turkey hunter. And he's not true, he proves that completely wrong. That is definitely not true. You know, there's hope.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:06

Yeah. I did, you know, um the two things that popped in my mind listening to him first part of this was like he was talking about the the era we're in today, communication-wise, you know, where it was just you know, everything was centered around, you know, magazines and TVs for so long. And today it's it's so much, so much of and it's in a good way. We've you know, we've got that our destiny's kind of in our own hands more now, you know, with digital media stuff. But um, but there, you know, and people he talked about uh influencers, and almost like it feels like a dirty word. I don't even recall one of those. But you know, this people should just watch for it's a buzzword with like brands even in business strategy and like it's supposedly be so smart to be quote unquote, let's have this authentic, let's market. I mean, you can't conjure up authentic. You either are or you're not. That's the point I was trying to make. I mean, the only way you can be authentic is to be yourself. That's it. So, right, wrong, we're different. And so I'm just saying that's the difference in a Kevin and maybe someone that's just out there uh fly by night, great at doing something crazy, an influencer type person is like you can, you can, you know, you can either talk authentic or you can just be authentic by being yourself. So anyway, that's a I just that I thought about that. There's probably less and less people that are truly to their core authentic, and they don't even use the word. They're just being it, you know, and he's definitely one of them. And another thing is we kind of we kind of get excited, probably sound a little exuberant when we get them on, because we're just it's not just that he's the greatest ever in this bass fishing. And such a great influence, not influencer, but influence, is that you know, it's just more that the man he is and the family guy he is and his values. You know, and for me, I get excited because I know how much influence he is, especially in the fishing world. And so he can have that influence on people, you know, that families first. Because it's so important. I mean, Kevin, the world cannot get too much of that today. So anyway, partners, we kind of get excited about showing you off to people.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:21

Yeah, Kevin, we're pro we're proud of you.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:24

Big time. Uh it's it's great to be part of the Mosyoke family for sure. And and you're right. The the one thing that I do like about um the current state that we're in with influencers and digital media and social media and and YouTube is that people uh that don't know um, they can figure it out pretty quick. Yes, that they can learn. And you can, you know what? My opinions are you know are what works for me. But I mean if you listen to people that you know uh I enough of them, you can you can figure it out pretty quick that who's who's living it and who's telling you from experience and and you know uh get a pretty good get a pretty good read on it. And it because it's no different than than cooking, you know. I mean, I love to grill and cook out. You do I've watched a lot of different and I've got a lot of friends in that world. And man, it's it's really easy to to take somebody's video and go, man, I'd never I never thought about trying that, about spraying, you know, a mix of apple cider and vinegar and make some honey with it and spraying it on my chicken wings before I do it. So all you got to do is you know learn from other people, experiment a little bit, try what and blend with what works for you, and then you can call it your own, too, you know. I mean, it's not just copying somebody else's recipe, but no, I mean I've been doing it a long time, and all I try to do with um the things that I do, you know, gamekeeping videos and stuff, is just to help other people learn from my failures and my mistakes, you know, to keep to try to help other people be successful. I didn't have a better experience. It's no different than giving a fishing tip uh or telling somebody about a new technique or a new bait is just hoping to have somebody be able to get out there, get on the woods or the water with their family and just catch one more bass or have you know one more here, one more turkey gobble, you know, just to just to make it a little bit better for all of us, because we you know we all have that same passion. Um, and you know, you just you wanna you you want to make sure that we've got something obviously for the next generation, it's conservation to do it correctly and and all that, but but also to to help the resource out, you know. I mean it's when I first started, that's all I wanted to do is get my limit, uh, make make sure I filled my tag, all that. And you know, that that is not near as important anymore than uh I try to look at the big picture and and and I I love the process way more the end result, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:05

You hear coaches say that, but it's it actually does. I saw even rivals over there saying that, you know, evolution of an outdoorsman. That's a perfect example of it. It it is the process does become more fun, and it makes for a better life, honestly. You're not just living for that one little period of time, you know, where the season is or whatever. It's a 12-month, you know, 52-week joy time. It really is, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:31

Yeah, yeah, it's it's kind of a blessing to be excited about driving to your place on a Wednesday afternoon after work, as opposed to just in the wintertime when you're going to your stand. I mean, we're excited about getting out in the woods year-round.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:47

I almost want more spare time out of the season because there's so much I want to get done and I never have enough time to get it all in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:54

Hey, Kevin, thank you for joining us. Look, before we let you go, we're we I got a trivia question, but it's so easy. It's uh I'm embarrassed it's so easy. Even Matt could probably get this one.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:05

Oh. So why don't we before he asks? Bobby needs some like bait casting tips, you know. He gets a lot of back ashes.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:14

So why don't we Rob? Let's do the trivia question real quick. All right. Well, what what if somebody misses it? They're gonna feel like an idiot. Well, you know, it's a Dudley, you shouldn't.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:26

Yeah, we can always cut it out. No, we're yeah, we can always edit it out, sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:33

All right, so uh Taylor B. 214 left us a review about the frog hunting podcast. Awesome podcast. Remember my dad cooking up frog legs for me as a kid, and it freaked me out. Me and my boys will need to get together for a trip with Tigerback. All right, so Kevin, here's your question. What do soybeans, deer vetch, iron and clay peas, and clover all have in common?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:59

They're all good deer food. Well, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:02

That was my answer.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:04

Yeah, but I'm trying to be a little bit more specific.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:07

What else maybe uh biologically do they all have in common?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:11

Biologically clover all. They all produce their own nitrogen. There we go.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:20

That is there's a term for that Dudley help us out with this. Legumase.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:26

Uh legumes.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:28

Yeah, that's right. I don't know that everybody knew that. Mac did. He's I can see his eyes. Of course.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:35

I'm just surprised you didn't say anything about peanuts.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:38

There's so many, there's so many other legumes that you could add in there. Dudley and I were talking about Kudzu. Yeah, there's a lot of legumes. Bobby's favorite plant.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:47

They're not all, they're not all beneficial, but yeah, that was an easy one, though.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:51

Then they are great, they're all great deer forgers, including peanuts.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:54

I will say they mentioned it that the year we're in, being able to fix your own nitrogen is a big deal this year. It's just off the charts, expensive.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:02

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:03

Hey, who re who left that review? Uh Taylor B. 214.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:07

All right. They so we're gonna send him a golden eagle jar of syrup. He'll get that. I'm really jealous of that stuff, yeah. Poor Dudley. Yeah. Kevin, you're one of our favorite, if not our favorite gamekeeper. You would probably work your way up to the top there if you maybe invited me to go fishing with you.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:27

I don't care what you do as long as he stays out of our turkey woods up there.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:31

Take him, take him carp fishing or something.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:33

Yeah. Well, anyway, I'm not asking.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:36

I'm just well, we're he's actually begging. He's actually begging.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:40

Such fans of the way you carry yourself. Tox has alluded to it. I don't want to beat that to death, but we you really are a great example of how a man should behave.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:50

Well, you're you're making me blush, but uh I just, you know, I was fortunate to be raised in a in a family that we got introduced to the outdoors early, and we all all love it. It's pretty neat. I've got a bunch of uh great nieces and nephews. I was we were actually with them yesterday uh on the on the water, taking them out fishing, and they're you know, they're from three to eight years old now, and I mean just just seeing how much they love fishing, and they all love to hunt and stuff too. I mean, I can't imagine uh the fun times they've got coming in their future with with knowing what our family does, uh, you know, with our uh passion hunting fish. You know, we got a got a great store where we you know we round all the equipment all the time that that we all love to have and you know all the toys we want to have. So uh watching this next generation come up is is gonna be a lot of fun for me.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:49

He's gonna be running when he gets grandkids. You're gonna really see what it's like then. Yeah that's all we do. I mean, literally, that's about all we do anymore. I've left here to come up and do that. I've been keeping grandkids two different sets of them today, and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:02

How about that? Kevin, you got any questions for us?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:04

We've asked you a bunch. No, I think um, you know, I'd uh it might be a good good thing to do something like this again, you know, maybe more focused. I think there's a lot of people, um, especially in my region of the country that are really have a lot of misunderstandings about the different food plot things, you know, timing and stuff like that. I know I've tried to create a lot of different videos and stuff like that, but it'd be good to maybe do something a little more focused for the northern region, you know, gamekeeper, you know, and because I've been doing it a lot of time. Yeah, made a lot of mistakes. Yeah, we'll do that. Well, I've got a I've got a lot of uh, you know, what I'm gonna what I'm gonna call you those dang sure thing recipes, you know, that that I've been uh, you know, there's a few there's a few shining stars in the biologic lineup that that just are so great for this northern region, you know. Non-typical clover is one of them. It is oh my goodness, that's the best thing to sell in my opinion. It is the foundation of everything. It's the most critical uh food plot plant that I that I have. It's so important for me to have. And I've tried them all. And that that one right there, that is that's good stuff. Yeah, that's the money badger.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:24

Big fun.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:25

So, Kevin, does the uh I think correct me if I'm wrong, does the does our magazine make its way to Kalamazoo every quarter?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:33

Absolutely. Oh, I'm a I look forward to it to it uh every one.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:39

Yeah, we need to do a Kevin article in there, like interview him about fishing or something. I could go I could go with him on a fishing trip.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:46

You could do an on-site interview.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:48

That's a good idea. Well, you might need somebody to take pictures for you too. So that's that's a that's a that's a buccalier in the buckle.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:57

Um I've actually uh I've learned a lot. I've been working with a few of the biologists from from Texas and Alabama, Tennessee over the last handful of years on some of these private places. And it it's it's very interesting. It's no different than the the difference there is when you're managing a small lake, is when you got a 120-acre piece of property or something like that, and there's no fence, you can't control what comes and goes or anything. When you got a lake, you you got a lot better, you can have a lot better control over a five-acre pond than just about anything else uh compared to wildlife habitat. So it uh it it helps, but it has it creates each one creates its own unique um challenges too. Just like every piece of woods is different, every pond is different, every different area of the country is a little bit different. But I've learned a lot about that as well. And um, you know, from from the big waters, from fishing, you know, whatever you want to say, Kentucky Lake or Lake Gunnersville to places like that, all the way down to my pond in my backyard or Luke Bryan's place or Steve Harvey's or any of these others, the the guys that are that are working on it or Toxie, I'm sure you're doing the same thing on your places. Uh those couple of lakes on the golf course, boy. They got a lot of yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:19

We do, we have good many ponds. It's just the key, and that's a whole nother podcast, but the discipline. I mean, you can control more, but you have to have more discipline about what you do because you're stuck with what you have or your own, you know, like whatever your actions are. You know, you're stuck with it. You you don't get to uh you know, you don't get to plant food plots and draw them in from your neighbor or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:41

That's a good point. So, you know, you that's my biggest problem is having the discipline to all right, KVD Gamekeeper, extraordinary for sure, bass fisherman, turkey hunter, deer hunter, Dudley, habitat manager, husband, deer grower grower.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:00

He's just yeah, y'all left out one more thing. He is first team All-American with a Bayou Classic Fryer. Because he he in the same night you had turkey breast and uh walleye filets and mushrooms. Seems like there's one other thing. He was just like a machine putting them out, and we ate till our eyes bugged out.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:22

The uh the greatest thing that I learned from you, Toxie, is your wild turkey recipe. That is that we have uh we have.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:33

So at least that one I stumbled into that one. I've been so good. Yeah, I noticed y'all don't pass up tagging all your birds now.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:44

We uh yeah, we've we've had we've done it twice already this spring, and uh, I've got uh two more turkey in the freezer to to go. So we should be that's a that's a good one for sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:55

Go golden nuggets.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:56

All right, guys. Well, Kevin, thank you for joining us. Uh Mike, thank you for sitting in here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's always good to have you. Rob slid in here. What did Jason have to go to a pickleball tournament? What was his excuse?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:08

I think it was just coming in as the closer today.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:10

Yeah. Well, Rob, thank you for bringing it in here for us. And uh, guys, just as I we always enjoy having Kevin. Kevin, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:22

Tell the family hello for me. I miss them.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:25

We'll do, man. Look forward to the next time. Why don't you say goodbye, Dudley? Goodbye, Dudley.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:31

Get us out of here, Rob. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the Gamekeeper Podcast. And be sure to tune in again. Subscribe to Game Keeper Farming for Wildlife magazine, and don't miss the Mafio Properties Fistful of Dirt podcast with my good buddy, Ronnie Cut Strickland.