EP: 464 | DO IT for the Ducks

On this very timely episode guests Dr. Scott Stephens and Dr. Mike Brasher of Ducks Unlimited explain some changes that are being considered to the Prairie Pothole region’s wetlands. These wetlands were voluntarily placed into waterfowl friendly easements through our duck stamp purchases, and the USFWS is asking for comments concerning possible changes that can affect these wetland ecosystems and their ability to house nesting ducks and other waterfowl. The two scientists explain what’s going on and ask listeners to comment. If you love ducks, duck hunting and wetlands, give this one a listen asap. 

Listen, Learn and Be Active. 

Ducks Unlimited Website with Talking Points

https://www.ducks.org/savetheduckfactory

Sign the Petition: Don't Drain the Duck Factory

https://ducks.quorum.us/campaign/duckfactory/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I'm Jeff Foxworthy and welcome to Gamekeeper Podcast. If you want to learn more about farming for wildlife and habitat management, then buddy, you are in the right place. Join the Gamekeeper crew direct from Austrian Land Enhancement Studio as they discuss the latest wildlife and habitat management practices. News, and of course, honey. There's no telling what you'll learn, but I'm going to tell you. I bet it's interesting. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_05 0:25

We're live in three, two, one. All right, everybody, we gathered around the table today to talk about something really important.

SPEAKER_06 0:32

We love ducks. We love ducks.

SPEAKER_05 0:35

We love all wildlife. And there's always headwinds, there's always issues, but rarely uh does it seem like it's uh you know it's uh we're doing something uh uh we're shooting ourselves in the foot sometimes. And I've uh it it's more weather driven uh or or there are other types of issues, habitat or whatnot, but uh gosh, this one seems like some people maybe I want to learn about this.

SPEAKER_06 0:59

I don't I'm not really sure I understand the whole thing. Yeah, I'm kind of in the blind too. You know, you talked about this earlier this week and I'm like, whoa, whoa, what's going on? So if we can uh you know help spread the word about what's kind of going on in the duck world, it is our obligation, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:12

It is. Dudley, we've got two great guests there with Ducks Unlimited. Uh let me just get everybody introduced. We've got Dr. Mike Brazier. There he is. He's the senior waterfowl scientist. Come on. I love that title. Yeah, that's a good one. Welcome, Mike. And then uh we've got Dr. Scott Stevens. And uh, Dr. Scott Stevens is the senior director of conservation strategy. Come on. That we're seeing conservation in a lot of titles of our our guests. That's really man. That's the most important part of what we're doing around here for wildlife for sure. Yeah. So, Scott, Mike, thank y'all for being here. It's great to be here, it's our pleasure to join you guys. It seems like we've got a pretty heavy subject here. And I think we right now we've decided usually we have these. I don't know how much you guys listen to us, we have these little fun segments. Sometimes they're kind of goofy and all that. We're gonna dispense with all that. We're gonna get right to the heart of the matter and turn the floor over to you guys. And uh but why don't y'all one of y'all start and just kind of tell us what's going on?

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Yeah, I I can start us off here. And and guys, again, we appreciate the opportunity to join you. I like the way you introduced this and that uh you want to learn, you want to learn what this is about. And that's what Scott and I are wanting to help do is provide people with some of the details behind this. Because just on the surface, when you look at it, it is a little bit of a head scratcher in a number of ways. Like, what are we asking for? What is this about? Uh, and then like why, why is this, why is this happening? You know, and what are the implications? And so here's the way I would kind of sum it up at a high level, um, and sort of the the narrative of of what we're going to get into and why people need to be concerned, is that for about 92 years, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has made a promise to duck hunters. And that promise was basically that if you purchase a duck stamp, which they require you to do if you hunt waterfowl, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service will take 98 cents out of every dollar associated with the purchase of that duck stamp, and they will dedicate it to the permanent protection of important migratory bird habitat across the U.S., much of which goes to waterfowl specifically. There's a part of that, a big chunk of that, that goes starting in the around the 1960s, it started going direct to the U.S. uh prairies. Most important breeding area for ducks uh in in North America. And that promise said that if you if you if you buy that stamp, that money goes to permanently protect that waterfowl habitat. We have uh reason to believe, and the Fish and Wildlife Service has told us that they are going to be looking at a certain provision, a certain procedure that provides protections for some of those wetlands that have been protected through the purchase of duck stamps. And and that concerns us. And we're going to tell you about what that is, what they're looking at, and it relates to some things that are happening on the prairies. And uh and that concerns us at if those changes are made, we will see a weakening of the protections on those prairie wetlands that we have helped protect through through duck stamp dollars. That could have some consequences for ducks that are produced and ducks that fly south in the fall and a whole bunch of other benefits that those wetlands provide. So that's kind of the high level why people need to pay attention and why people need to learn about this is that we're we're kind of worried that the U.S. Fish and Wallive Service might break that trust, might break that break that promise that we um that they gave to us.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

That's pretty serious. Yeah, it is. Um, and you know, these easements, uh, there there's words like permanent and perpetuity um that are in the language of of those easements.

SPEAKER_06 5:02

So uh help me right quick. I I might have misunderstood you, but the they're making a move to it sounded to me like further protect, but that's not really what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Well, so what happened? Let's just kind of get into what's being asked and what what we're kind of concerned about. Last Friday, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service published published something in the Federal Register that said, we welcome input from the public on the process by which we, the Fish and Wildlife Service, determines the setbacks for drain tile installation on properties that have wetland easements on them. So these are wetland easements that have been purchased with duct stamp dollars. They are governed by agreements that say these things can't be drained, and Scott's gonna talk us through some of the specifics of that. But the installation of drain tile has some implications for those wetlands' ability to uh to hold water. So that's and the Fish and Wildlife Service has a curr has a current process in place that we believe is solid, based on science, provides landowners with some certainty whenever they come into the Fish and Wildlife Service office and say, help me figure out where I can place these drain tiles so as to not to impact those wetlands. Uh it provides them safe harbor if they do that. And the Fish and Wildlife Service is saying two things, they want to review it, but they've also indicated in another document that they want to repeal that rule. And in our view, and we'll explain how this works, in our view, the current rule is a good rule for a lot of reasons. And it makes us real nervous whenever they start talking about repealing that rule and possibly weakening uh the protections associated with this with drain tile and installation setbacks. And so we can step through easements, drain tiles, setbacks, all that type stuff as we go through this. But that that's kind of the big issue. Fish and Wildlife Services made this promise to duck hunters for 92 years. Now we're getting some hints that there could be some changes to that promise. And we're not very comfortable with that.

SPEAKER_06 7:14

And and that change is modification of these current easements.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Modification of the process by which drain tile setbacks would be established.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

So that's that's weedy stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

I'd be willing to bet that a few of our listeners may not understand what a drain tile is. When I think of tile, I think of the floor in a house or a a shower. Can you explain that to some of our listeners?

SPEAKER_04 7:41

There's a bunch of stuff that we need to unpack here, you know, just just so you even have the right context and kind of can piece all these things together and understand how it relates to ducks, right? So um, yeah, so tile, we'll we'll start with that. Tile, um, you know, historically, tile drainage, that technology for agriculture has been around for a long time. Um, you know, originally they were sort of clay pipes that were about a foot long that were pieced together, you know, laid in the ground and helped remove excess moisture in kind of the subsurface soil. Nowadays, what modern tile looks like is uh, you know, it comes in big rolls that you see on semi-trucks, and it's you know, four or six or eight inch PVC, and it has little perforations in it that allow moisture to sort of weep into that tile and then it runs off of the field. So, you know, it's something used to remove excess moisture. Um, if you're dealing with crops like corn and soybeans, they aren't very tolerant of having that excess moisture. So it's something that agriculture has had around for a while. But a key point here is it is rather new on the landscape in the core of the prairie pottle region where those ducks breed. So that's kind of some context.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Gotcha. We could we we should probably also unpack a little bit about easements, what they are, because that's that's sort of the intersection here. Drain tile, drain tile setbacks, and setbacks basically means where you can install these in proximity to something of interest. In this case, the thing of interest is the wetland, and not just any wetland either. These are wetlands that are currently covered by conservation easements, easements that have been paid for, voluntary easements, voluntary agreements, mutually agreed upon sort of stipulations between the federal government and uh and landowners. And these easements are the ones that duck hunters have paid for, and so that's sort of the intersection here of the drain tile, the setbacks, and then this really special class of wetlands, conservation easements. Um and that's probably something that we need to need to talk about as well.

SPEAKER_04 12:55

Yeah, I I can do a little bit of the history of these conservation easements, especially in the prairies. Um, Mike Hinted at this, but you know, since 1934, everybody's been purchasing duck stamps, those dollars go into a fund to be invested in habitat protections. Um, you know, early on, most of those protections were the fee title acquisition of things like refuges, waterfowl production areas in some of the breeding states. And then in the early 60s, the Fish and Wildlife Service received authorization to begin purchasing these easements, which you guys probably know, but easements can run the gamut. You know, easements can say you can't do anything, you know, no development, no anything out there, to having very limited restrictions. And these Fish and Wildlife Service easements are more on that side of limited restrictions. So the the rights that the Fish and Wildlife Service is buying from the landowner in this case are the right to drain, fill, burn, or level the wetlands. So those four things. There's also also some very specific language in the agreement that every landowner signs and the Fish and Wildlife Service signs that says drain by ditching or any other means, direct or indirect. So we we will we will continue to reference that. But you know, the the standard that we talk about here is no drainage on these wetlands. So as Mike said, these are these are voluntary. You know, the service and other folks talk about hey, here are options we have. If you're willing to sign this perpetual agreement that says you will not drain fill burner level these wetlands, we will pay you a one-time payment. Um, and you know, then these easements will have this deed restriction attached to the title of the property and the deed, and then all subsequent landowners must live with that. So, you know, this is a forever agreement. Um, but one thing we would point out is that uh, you know, even today, when we have funding to purchase these, um there are more landowners who are interested in doing that than we have funding to cover. So this is still a popular program that producers are showing up to and saying, yep, the you know, the payment that you're giving me is worth it for the restrictions that I have on the property. And and just to give you guys sort of a scale of impact, it's about a million and a half acres over that prairie potal region. So states of Minnesota, Iowa, North and South Dakota, and Montana, we have about a million and a half acres spread across that geography that are these protected wetland easements. That sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_06 15:46

That's a lot of land. Yeah, it is. Is this being driven by, I mean, economics, commodity prices, demand for commodities?

SPEAKER_04 15:55

Yeah, exactly. You you are on exactly the right track. So so now I'll try and piece together. We've talked about tile, we've talked about easements. Now we got to go, okay, what's the intersection of these? And you know, I I I gave you a little bit of a sneak preview. Um you know, tile, I would argue, is is really driven by the type of crops that you're growing. And uh I live in South Dakota now, but in 2003, I had moved to Bismarck, North Dakota. And driving around the countryside in duck country, that that was the agriculture when I got there was mostly small grains like wheat and barley and flax and sunflowers, right? There was not much corn and soybeans in the Dakotas at that point in time. And I distinctly remember while I was there, this was this was probably a little later, 2000, 2007 or eight or something like that. I was driving through through a rural area, and you know, you come to sort of uh an intersection where, you know, a road going north, south, and you're on one going east and west. And for the first time ever, while I had been in North Dakota, there was corn planted on all four corners of that intersection. And I had to slow down because I couldn't see if anyone was coming. So that just stuck in my mind as, ooh, that's the first time I've seen that much corn planted here. And and that's continued. And you know, we know there were there was a lot of work on corn varieties to be more drought tolerant and herbicide resistant and all those things. So, you know, it was kind of late 2000s, early 2010s that we saw corn and soybeans pushing into the Dakotas. And with that, um, you know, was an increase in the interest in installing this drain tile. Those are high value crops. They don't do well if if the soil is saturated. So there was this sort of confluence of, you know, drain tile now being of interest, the crops being the right crops, and the fish and wildlife service having about a million and a half acres of these wetland easements there. So, you know, the challenge quickly became for the Fish and Wildlife Service it's like, hey, you know, remember that language cannot drain by ditching or any other means, direct or indirect. So, you know, this is covered by that category. It's like they had to ensure that whatever happened with drain tile wasn't going to drain that wetland. Um, you know, the the service, like us, were fans of science and and they took the same approach. They said, hey, you know, to figure this out, we need to bring some expertise and hydrologists and engineers and those kind of people to the table to help us figure this out. And they began to develop, you know, with with hydrologic models, um, you know, to figure out, okay, what what are the big drivers in influencing, you know, how drainage tile might affect these wetlands? What they learned through some of that work was that the key factors are the depth of the tile relative to the elevation of the wetland. So if you install the tile deeper than you know where the wetland sits, that can have a big influence and could, you know, sort of starve, would be my word, starve the wetland of runoff and subsurface runoff and water. And the other factor is what they call lateral distance. How far from the edge of the wetland is the tile placed? You know, so logically, the further away, the less influence it has on how much water reaches that wetland. So, you know, the they they have been working on this for a long time. Um, I also learned that so they they had a memo that came out that's like, hey, we're figuring out how we're gonna manage this. That came out in 2020. And um really that is what sort of continued on and in 2024 became this rule that now we're talking about. Um so that's that's sort of the history, how these intersect. Now, the other thing I would tell you that 1.5 million acres of of wetland easements, you know, when we think about protecting duck habitat, that actually that acreage in the Dakotas supports about a third of the breeding pairs would be, would show up to breed and would be on those protected wetlands. So when we think about, you know, trying to protect the habitat up there, we we would have said, hey, those that are covered by conservation easement, those are in the completed category. You know, it's like done, you know, those are protected. Now we're looking at how do we add to those, you know, how do we add to that estate? How do we protect more of the available habitat so that when birds come to breed, they have the resources that they need. So, you know, really these questions now make us go, oh, we had those in the done completed bucket, and now there's questions about that.

SPEAKER_05 20:53

Earlier, uh uh Scott, you mentioned that uh this big number, 1.5, and you're trying to add to it, and we're cheering for you to do that. Um, but but you said that there are more landowners that are wanting to participate than there are funds right now. Are there any examples where in in the last few years maybe somebody has put some of these tiles in in a place that wasn't in an easement, and you guys can see the damage that it potentially caused. So you've got you've got a good you've got a good idea what would happen.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

Maybe here's where we'll jump into a uh another thing that's that's important to consider here. So, you know, the Fish and Wildlife Service has this standard that says, hey, can't drain the wetlands, we can have no impact if you put tile in. So for producers out there on the landscape, there are some other requirements that they have to meet that are that are part of the farm bill. And, you know, if they want to participate in the USDA programs and be eligible for things like crop insurance and other supports. There is a provision, it's called conservation compliance, and the specific one around wetlands is called Swamp Buster. And so, you know, that basically says you can't drain wetlands if you want to participate in those programs. So USDA has developed some rules around setbacks, but their standard is a little different. They say, well, you can only have minimal effects is the is the term that they use. As a result of the installation of the drain tile. That's right. Drain tile can only have minimal effects on wetlands. So, you know, one of the questions that has come up in these discussions, you know, that that we get sometimes is well, we have this USDA standard. Can't we just have the same standard and you can use that for, you know, fish and wildlife service easements? Well, our answer has always been these are apples and oranges. You know, the standard in the easement is no drainage by ditching or any means direct or indirect. Whereas with USDA, it's minimal effects. So those are different. What we do have is some information. This is this is the one piece of science that we have around this question, is some researchers in North Dakota at a at a USGS uh research center called Northern Prairie Wildlife Research Center in Jamestown. They went out and did exactly what you were suggesting. They said, hey, we're going to take a couple wetlands on this track, keep those natural, and monitor the details of runoff and how much water is there and those things. And then they took two other wetlands, they installed drain tile according to the USDA setback distances, different from the service, but they installed it according to the USDA setbacks, and then they monitored the results. And what they found was that using those USDA setbacks, on average, over all of the wetlands there that had those setbacks, there was a 7% reduction in the surface area. But on one wetland, they they studied this for three years. On one wetland, the reduction was 28% in the first year, 10% in the second year, and 17% in the third year. So when we look at that data, we say that may meet the standards of minimal effects, but is inconsistent with the language in Fish and Wildlife Service easements that says no drainage, you know, no impact by ditching or any means direct or indirect.

SPEAKER_06 28:10

It it seems to, I mean, we're we're scared to fill in a mud puddle around here because of the no net loss of wetlands with the core engineers. I mean, anything we've ever had to do from a wetland, we had to mitigate, you know, even building uh a lake in a pasture because it had a stream, you know, coming in. We're having to mitigate that. Does that not have any play in the And no net loss of wetlands from the core engineers?

SPEAKER_04 28:34

Yeah, really good question. The wetlands in the Prairie Pottle region, based on a number of Supreme Court cases and some other things that have come to pass in the past decade, I would say, have been sort of excluded because they're they're isolated wetlands. And that's a technical term, you know, but but the ironic part here is they're isolated until you put a ditch in them and connect them to the nearest creek or river. And then they're no longer isolated. But you know, these decisions have said because they're isolated to start with, they, you know, those those waters of the US standards do not apply. So basically the the only sort of uh you know, the the primary thing that governs that would be the USDA compliance, um, you know, around things like Swamp Buster. And then, you know, when you purchase a, you know, a more restrictive agreement like those Fish and Wildlife Service Agreements, um, you know, and that's part of the reason why those Fish and Wildlife Service easements are so important, is because there aren't a bunch of those other protections there. So those are investments in those are really important.

SPEAKER_06 29:48

That makes sense. Yeah, it's exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

When you're saying, you know, you can't drain, is that up to the line of the easement, or is there some parameter where you can't drain like a certain distance from the outside of the easement?

SPEAKER_04 30:01

What these easements look like is, you know, on each one now, you know, at least in that part of the world, sort of a standard, a standard sized track of land would be what we call a quarter section or 160 acres. And, you know, on let's say a quarter section, let's say there are 10 wetlands, they draw a circle around the perimeter of those wetlands. Those are identified, you know, there's a map in that easement document. And then basically, when it comes to figuring out these tile setback distances, um because it's you know different on every tract, they they do this calculation, you know, specifically for each tract. And they plug in the soil types and the topography and all of all of the gory details for that individual tract, and then basically say, okay, here are the areas, you know, you need to be back from this wetland this far. So, you know, some some distance around this wetland, you you can't put tile there and do that for all of the wetlands and provide the producer with a map that says, you know, here are the places that you can install it, here are the places that you have to stay out of to be in compliance with, you know, the agreement that's on your property. Um, one of the important things that we like to point out in this 2024 rule is, you know, it was an attempt to provide certainty for the landowner. There's also a clause in there that says, hey, if you go through this process with the Fish and Wildlife Service and their calculations are wrong, or you know, there is some impact later, the landowner is held harmless. Their term is there's safe harbor provided. So, you know, it has a bunch of the features that we think are attractive for, you know, for landowners. It protects the interests that were purchased by duck stamp folks and duck hunters. So, you know, that that's part of the reason why we say the rule is pretty good. It does all of these things, and we think you should keep it in place.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

That gets us to sort of the the crux of the matter from what we're asking people to do, why we're trying to educate people on this, to let them know the Fish and Wildlife Service has said uh in they they said in a document that was released last Friday that they want to what they want people's input on whether this rule is working. This 2024 rule that Scott just described is working for all the reasons he described, it's protection of the what those wetland values, the individuality, the individual-based nature with which those setbacks are established, the safe harbor, et cetera. We believe it's a good rule. Um the Fish and Wildlife Service, in another document that our policy staff found indicates that they intend to repeal that rule. And that's where we get nervous, because uh it is not difficult to imagine that they, as Scott and I have said a number of times, if you have a current rule that is designed to establish setbacks that allow no impact, then there's kind of only one way you can go with any changes to that rule and the process of establishing those setbacks. So we are nervous that if they propose a new rule, a new process by which drain tile setbacks are established, that it could reduce the water holding capability of those wetlands that are covered by those permanent conservation easements. And that's why we are asking people to educate themselves about this issue. We're asking people to take action, to let your comments be heard. Uh, you can go to www.ducks.org forward slash save the duck factory to learn more about this particular issue. Ducks Unlimited has crafted some talking points. There's a link that will take you to the Federal Register. And we are asking you to submit a comment. If you like ducks, if you like duck habitat, uh, if you like all the other benefits that those wetlands uh provide, if you're a duck hunter that has purchased a duck stamp that has contributed to those, what we were told were permanently protected wetlands and wetland values, you need to let the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service know that you've been educated about that 2024 rule. It's a good rule. It's working, it preserves the habitat values that you said you were going to protect with the money that we provided. We want you to keep that rule in place. That's what we're asking is Ducks Unlimited. Um, and that and that's why we're here, and that's why we appreciate the opportunity to bring this message to your audience.

SPEAKER_05 34:35

And it's kind of timely too. There's uh when does this thing time out? We've got to do it by Friday, August 6th, right? That's right.

SPEAKER_04 34:43

Yeah, short comment window.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

Yeah. Uh one thing that sticks out to me that you know kind of could go down the road with this is uh you know, the public trust. Uh when you when you purchase a stamp, you trust that it's gonna go, you know, according to these parameters. Um and if they change those parameters, I feel like people in the future may be more reluctant to to buy said stamp um because they can't trust that that you know these rules are gonna stay.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

100%. Um, I am I'm I'm a champion of the duck stamps for all of those reasons um and the efficiency with which it conserves that habitat. And and you're absolutely right. It would be very, very concerning if if the protections on those on those places were um were less than what we were told they were going to be.

SPEAKER_04 35:36

Yeah, the the analogy that I've used, guys, is you can think of that 1.5 million acres of of wetland easement habitat that's protected as kind of a I'll call it a habitat 401k that duck hunters have invested in. And you know, the the annual returns that we get are young ducks flying south um you know, come fall. And we feel like really the question here is hey, would you be okay if we took some of the principle out of your 401k? And at least for me, the answer is heck no, right? Um, you know, this was bought and paid for. We're we're the investors in this. This is an asset that you told us was forever, and we want it to stay that way.

SPEAKER_06 36:23

Amen. Yeah, that's kind of makes you just kind of shake your head. And tell us again where to go. I'm at ducks.org right now. And uh, I know you said save the duck factory. Forward slash save the duck factory.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

Save the duck factory. Ducks.org forward slash save the duck factory. You can also go to any of our social media accounts and you'll find all sorts of messages here over the past couple of days that will direct you to that. There's also a place where you can find um uh well, what we'll do, guys, is we will provide you links to include in the show description that will direct folks to that website. The other thing that we're asking people to do is to uh to sign a petition, and there's a separate website uh or separate URL web address for that. We'll provide that. We're asking people to do both of those things. The submitting your comment to the Federal Register is really important because that's where you're communicating directly to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and you're participating in the democratic process, you know, of letting your voice be known. We do it when we go to the uh uh to the ballot box, but it doesn't stop there. We have opportunities to allow to have our leaders um understand what's important to us. And for ducks unlimited, for duck hunters, for wetland conservationists, man, this is a super important issue, and we hope other people agree and we'll encourage y'all to engage on this.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Yeah, and it it you know, I'll say it, it could it should go beyond that. You know, there's a lot of birders and such that don't duck hunt that are buying duck stamps uh for the same reasons. And so uh it's important to get this message out to everybody.

SPEAKER_06 38:01

I'm on the site now. Easy to get to the Federal Registrar to put your put your comment in. There's six thousand one hundred and fifteen comments right now. There's about to be six thousand one hundred and sixteen because I'm on it right now. Are you gonna turn your all caps on? Yeah, I'm gonna holler at them. I'm gonna scream at them. You know I am.

SPEAKER_04 38:18

That's right. Yeah, well, and the one thing we've talked about, guys, it's like, you know, that's a good number of comments, but we need no, we need more.

SPEAKER_06 38:27

We need more. I thought it was that's what I was gonna say wasn't up.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

We have about a million duck hunters, right? Yeah, I didn't think we'd we have about a million duck hunters in the U.S. It's like every duck hunter has been an investor in that asset base. Yeah, they should have a say.

SPEAKER_06 38:40

I was saying it was 6,150 because I thought it was low. I really did.

SPEAKER_05 38:43

So guys, did right. Did y'all just wake up one day and and some of your people said, Hey, look, this is coming down the pipe. And does this did this blindside you guys?

SPEAKER_04 38:53

There have been discussions and there have been questions about this for a while. So we've we've been tracking that. Um, but you know, in until something hits in that federal register, you don't know if like, is that just talk? Is that is that really coming? You know, so but you know, not surprisingly, when we heard some of those discussions, we we've been preparing and you know, making sure we will were well well versed in like all the details that we just tried to cover for you guys here. So yeah, we we've been aware there's questions about this, but it just became serious when things hit the Federal Register.

SPEAKER_05 39:30

Well, we all did a great job explaining it. Uh then the drain tile, understanding what that meant, uh, because that was a little confusing. Yeah, it seemed like they'd call it drain pipe. Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And again, to reiterate, because there is some there is some confusion out there. What we're asking folks to do is comment and say you support the 2024 rule. That's the key. That's the thing that's being considered here.

SPEAKER_06 39:55

Support the 2024 rule.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

It's science-based, it's it's uh individualized to a specific property, to a to a specific easement. It uh provides that landowner safe harbor, means it protects them from legal recourse, uh, from uh from being sued, uh said plainly by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. If after they follow those guidelines as determined by that 2024 rule, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is not going to sue them if there is an unintended adverse effect on the water levels in that well. And the other thing to emphasize again is that these are on voluntary conservation easements. Landowners enter into these agreements willingly, the language is clear. Scott has referenced some of those important points. And these are easements that are purchased not with general taxpayer dollars, but with duct stamp dollars. You and me and anyone else has ever purchased a duck stamp. Your investment is what's at risk here if they choose to repeal the 2024 rule and go with something less restrictive. Um and and we've discussed some of those alternatives that uh you know that you could imagine. And and we're just not okay with that. And we need to let the Fish and Wildlife Service know that.

SPEAKER_06 41:15

Got eight days.

SPEAKER_05 41:16

We've got eight days. Yeah, so uh probably have six days from the time this thing comes out.

SPEAKER_06 41:21

You don't think you can get this thing out today? Well, we're gonna try.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

We're gonna try to get it out tomorrow. This this reminds me so much why we love to support conservation organizations exactly for you. You you guys uh found out out about it and brought it to the table, um, and and we're here to help spread the news.

SPEAKER_05 41:40

Yeah, and you've got look, I mean you think about these conservation organizations, what they do, they've got attorneys, they've got people in Washington paying attention, they've got they got folks paying attention to the other. Yeah, they they do. It's it's uh, you know, we like to talk to the biologists, but there's uh a whole nother layer of people that are working to protect what we love as well. Guys, you y'all did a great job at explaining this. Um, and thank you for taking time joining us. Mike, you look like you're in a nice office. You got hand-carved decoys around you. Um Mike's out there in the field with DUX.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Well, so I'm in a trailer. Yeah, Scott's in the nice office.

SPEAKER_05 42:16

Uh look like you're in a closet, is what I was thinking. You were thinking.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

No, are you guys are are you coming up to DUX, the Ducks Unlimited Expo?

SPEAKER_03 42:25

Some of the gamekeeper crew will be up there for sure.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

Okay. I am in a mobile podcast trailer that we have down on the bottom floor this year. Um the internet connection there is a little bit spotty due to me having to close it. As you guys, as you guys can imagine, the it's starting to get a little bit noisy. This is one of the move-in days. It kicks off tomorrow on Friday, uh, July 31st, uh runs through Sunday. A little bit of a free promo for this uh for DUX if you happen to get this out. So it's it's I mean that hey, there is a lot of mossy oak camo walking around.

SPEAKER_06 43:01

Do y'all have ways for people to to comment at the show? I mean, are kiosker things set up or anything like that?

SPEAKER_02 43:07

We're we're gonna have a lot of little QR codes around. I'll be here. We're gonna be available to answer questions. Scott was gonna be here. Y'all will appreciate this. Scott was gonna be here, and we got to thinking about it and said, Look, you're gonna be around about 20,000 people. Whenever you're around about 20,000 people, you know what can happen. I do. Some contagion, you know, germs can get spread and all that kind of stuff. We've all been to these expos before, and two days later you are sidelined, and we've got an important week next week because it's the home stretch of getting the word out on this issue. So I told Scott, I said, Nope, you stay up in South Dakota and you you make sure you're healthy. I'll take I'll take one for the team if there's a germ on it. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 43:46

Yeah, we call that the show crud. And Richie, why do we not have a podcast trailer? I guess we can talk to Bobby about that. Yeah, Bobby, you've got to put that in the budget, bro.

SPEAKER_04 43:54

I mean, road trip time on the wish list.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, um, I'll also add we're having a function Friday night up there at Ducks. Um it'll be benefiting Ducks Unlimited and Game Keeper Grants.

SPEAKER_06 44:07

There you go. Drink ones for the Ducks.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

That's right. I'm probably gonna drink a couple for the Ducks. There you go. There you go. Yeah, that sounds good.

SPEAKER_05 44:16

Well, guys, thank y'all for what you're doing. Yes. And uh keep us posted. Uh and and we'll give everybody listening. Uh be sure and comment. So let's give that web address one more time, Lanny. How about they do it? Yeah, Mike, why don't you do that for us?

SPEAKER_02 44:30

It's www.ducks.org forward slash save the duck factory.

SPEAKER_06 44:37

Yes. And be sure to note that you support 2024 rule already established on drain tile setbacks. There we go.

SPEAKER_05 44:44

You guys submit. We don't ask our audience to do much, but we're asking it uh if this means something.

SPEAKER_06 44:51

This is not for us, this is for the ducks. You know what I mean? And it's a very precious resource.

SPEAKER_05 44:55

Uh we care, our listeners care, Dean cares.

SPEAKER_06 44:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:59

All right, Scott, Mike, thank y'all for being here, and uh, thank you for what you do.

SPEAKER_06 45:03

Yes. Likewise, thank you, fellas. Yes, sir. Thank you all.

SPEAKER_05 45:07

We'll talk to y'all later. Wow.

SPEAKER_06 45:09

It's always something. I'm telling you, and I'm a good thing those guys are paying attention because you know we got our head in the sand down here just working on stuff, and there is a lot of stuff, moving parts going on that we need to be aware of. So good comment, Dudley. Thanks what these guys are doing.

SPEAKER_05 45:22

It is good. All right, why don't you say goodbye, Dudley? Goodbye, Dudley.

SPEAKER_06 45:25

Get us out of here, Richie.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the Gamekeeper Podcast. And be sure to tune in again. Subscribe to Game Keeper Farming for Wildlife magazine, and don't miss the Montio Properties Fistful of Dirt podcast with my good buddy, Ronnie Cut Strickland.