EP: 480 | Muskies Explained

On this episode, we’re joined by famed Minnesota fishing guide Kip Vieth to explain the many nuances of muskie fishing. You might be thinking, “I don’t have muskellunge where I fish,” but just trust us—this is an interesting fish native to North America that now has a greater distribution, thanks to many state agencies giving it a chance in their home waters. Muskie fishermen are a different breed, and we can all respect their determination. October is prime time in many areas for catching big muskies. 

Listen, Learn and Enjoy!

Transcript

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SPEAKER_03 0:00

I am Jeff Foxworthy and welcome to Gamekeeper Podcast. If you want to learn more about farming for wildlife and habitat management, anybody you are in the right place. Join the Gamekeeper crew direct from Mount Yoke Land Enhancement Studios. They discuss the latest wildlife and habitat management practices. News, and of course, honey. There's no telling what you'll learn, but I'm going to tell you, I bet it's interesting. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_05 0:26

We're live in three, two, one. Hi guys, the Gamekeeper Podcast. We're going down a little bit different road, but I would ask that everybody give us a little leeway. This is going to be interesting. We're talking about wildlife.

SPEAKER_07 0:43

How is this you know different? Well, guys may think, well, I don't have any muskies to learn there. How do you manage for muskies?

SPEAKER_04 0:48

It's foreign domain, but I'm here to learn.

SPEAKER_07 0:51

We all love to catch fish and big fish.

SPEAKER_05 0:53

Yeah, and we've got a guy. We look, we got two guys. We got Todd Amonrood. Welcome, Todd.

SPEAKER_07 0:59

Good morning, Ferville.

SPEAKER_05 1:01

All right. And then we've got the guy who literally wrote the book on fly fishing for muskies. We've got Mr. Kip Vief. Yeah, Kip. You get the horns, Kip. That's cool. Look, Kip, I met Kip a number of years ago, and Barry Smith introduced us. Our buddy Barry. Yeah, he is tied to anything that's good angling. Barry and Les and Jay are they're all tied to it somehow. And you know, distant leaf myself. Of course.

SPEAKER_07 1:33

You know, it's amazing how you include yourself in them.

SPEAKER_05 1:36

Kip is a really, he's the real deal. He fishes full time. And I think Kip, I don't want to take I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you really love fishing for muskies. I got that right.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Uh it's a love-hate thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:52

Yeah. That makes it even better. Yeah, no doubt about it. Yeah, you're definitely obsessed.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

They're easy to hate, and but when that happens, it's it's pretty magical. So yeah, it's uh I mean you can grind for three, four days and not see anything, and then all of a sudden it happens, and it's then it's love, but most of the time it's hate, you know, because you're just they're just a weird, weird fish. So it it makes it a little more difficult than normal fishing.

SPEAKER_07 2:20

So you're fishing three or four days for one bite?

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Uh some when it's bad, it's bad. Yeah. So it it sounds like you you might not even get a bite, you might see a fish, you know. So you can go you can go two to three days without seeing a fish, and then all of a sudden the trigger flips and or whatever, and off they go.

SPEAKER_07 2:43

So it's it's it's is it just they're that rare or that finicky?

SPEAKER_02 2:49

They're very fit. Well, when they're not finicky is when they eat, but when any other time they're finicky. They're not finicky is not the right word. It's more moody. Um kind of like Bobby.

SPEAKER_04 3:02

I was gonna say he just described turkey hunting in the south. He did.

SPEAKER_07 3:07

I thought the same thing, Dudley. I promise you, I thought the same thing.

SPEAKER_06 3:11

Fishing for muskies is almost more like hunting than it is fishing, though. Sounds like it.

SPEAKER_05 3:17

Well, they called the fish of 10,000 casts.

SPEAKER_07 3:20

How many times can you cast in one day, Bobby?

SPEAKER_05 3:22

Yeah, well, probably about 9,990. That's about all you can get out there, and you gotta start all over. But uh so we I asked Todd to be on here. Todd grew up fishing in that part of the world. Yeah. His dad's in the hall of legendary and um and Todd is a great angler in his own right. I was on a boat with Todd when he caught a big 50-something-inch muskie. For real.

SPEAKER_07 3:50

On his first cast, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_05 3:51

He hadn't made many. I think it was eight casts. I made close to 9,000 and he made like less than five. Hey, hey, it's it might about when. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 4:02

Todd's got a built-in algorithm.

SPEAKER_05 4:06

He knew when the moon was gonna be just right.

SPEAKER_08 4:08

So look, uh, why don't we start?

SPEAKER_05 4:11

Did you say moon? I did. The moon has a big effect on these fish. I think we'll learn. Maybe we can ask me. Interesting. Well, why don't we um why don't we do the rapid fires real quick and get started with that? And then I've got some questions and know you do too. Sounds good.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

All right. Kip, uh I don't know if you've done this before, but uh, I'm gonna ask you a bunch of questions so we can try to get to know you better. Just give me a quick answer. Okay. Are you ready? Yep. If you had to pick one month for muskie fishing, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Well, it'd be two, but it'd be a month. So mid-no October to mid-November, probably.

SPEAKER_04 4:52

Gotcha. How old were you when you caught your first muskie? Oh, 18, I think, 19, something like that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

I wasn't really that into it until later in life, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

Uh do you ever tie your own flies?

SPEAKER_02 5:07

I tie all my own muskie flies. Ooh, love it.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

Uh, what is a pet peeve or something that bothers you while you're muskie fishing? Uh a client or me? Uh it could be either.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Um not finishing your cast.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

Okay. Um, would you rather target smallmouth or largemouth?

SPEAKER_02 5:31

That's not even a question. Uh smallmouth by far. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

Uh what tastes better to you, crappie or walleye?

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Ooh. I'm gonna blaspheme most Minnesotans and probably say crappies. I'm not, I think walleyes are way overrated. Really? Okay.

SPEAKER_08 5:53

Yeah, yeah. Good to know.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

I'll probably burn in Minnesota hell for that.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Um, I'm not expecting that. I wasn't either. So here's a tough one. Would you rather ice fish or deer hunt? Deer hunt. What is a common snack you like to eat in the boat?

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Uh bing cherries. Bing cherries. What are those?

SPEAKER_04 6:17

Man, I've been wearing those things out. They just came out of season, though.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Yeah, yeah. I've got probably maybe, I think I got my last bag this week. Yeah, it's tough. You probably eat 30 bags of summer.

SPEAKER_04 6:29

Yeah, and watermelon's about to go out of season, too.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:33

What is your personal best muskie?

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Um, I'm trying to think. 48, I think. I haven't cracked 50 yet. Okay. I don't fish for much anymore. Too busy watching other people do it.

SPEAKER_05 6:49

Oh, yeah. Okay. What's your best guided muskie?

SPEAKER_04 6:53

51 on the fly. Whoa. Um, and last but not least, would you say you travel a good bit to hunt and fish, or are you more of a homeboy?

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Um, I travel a fair amount. Yeah. But I, you know, if I had to pick, I don't mind staying home with fishing. We're pretty blessed here in Minnesota.

SPEAKER_05 7:17

Yeah, sounds like it. Well, good ones. Good ones. Yeah. Rapid fire is brought to uh Nutrient Ag Solutions brings us that. I know. That look, they've got locations up there in Minnesota as well. I'm sure you can see their trucks running around. So, uh Kip, the muskies, they're the I guess their full name muskelunge. They're described as a large, fierce, freshwater fish, but they're not found everywhere. What is the like the native distribution of muskies?

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Um, mostly this the upper Midwest. Uh, I know there's a few pockets in the south. Uh, you know, and uh to be honest with you, I don't know if they're native there or not. I think in Kentucky there was a strain that that there, and uh Virginia certainly has them. Um but it's mostly when people think of Muskies, they think Minnesota, Wisconsin, uh Michigan, perhaps, Lake St. Clair is very good. Uh so that's kind of the Ontario. I mean Canada's probably the hot, hot place right now. Um there's a bunch of Lake of the Woods, Eagle Lake, all that up in Ontario. So that's kind of the hotbed of it, I would say. Uh certainly Virginia is a pretty good state, too. But um if I, you know, if you're traveling somewhere to fish muskies, I would, you know, the upper Midwest or Ontario probably.

SPEAKER_05 8:42

Yeah. You know, it seems like muskie fishermen are uh kind of a breed to themselves. Uh maybe they're gluttons for pain or punishment, but it it seems like if you're a muskie guy, you are all in muskie. But then what you do on a fly rod, that's a whole nother level in and of itself. If you kind of look back along the last 15 or 20 years, are you seeing that there's more interest in guys really wanting to target muskies and trying to break a 50-inch mark or something like that? And are the are the states up there managing for larger muskies?

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Um yeah, I mean it's it's on the fly, it's you know, the last, you know, there's some early pioneers 20, 25 years ago, um, that started thinking they could do it, and they did. And the the fly on the muskie is is blown up. The gear guys um have always been passionate, always um yeah, crazy insane for them. Uh you either have it or you don't. Like I've probably talked more people out of muskie fishing than into it. Um, it's a grind, it's hard, it's you have to be dedicated. And like someone said, it's it's it's hunting, it's not um, it's just not going out there. I mean, you certainly can catch them just willy-nilly. Um we caught a 38-incher on a popper just dead drifting a couple weeks ago, so it can happen, but um they are dedicated, and I would say as far as management goes, um, you know, I'm a Wisconsin kid originally, so they manage them pretty good there, but Minnesota has really, really, really started to you know take effect and put special rigs in. And um it it's insane how much work they've put into the fisheries uh here in Minnesota. Could they do a little more? Yes, but you know, you can say that about any probably you know, game and fish department throughout the country. You know, all us anglers are self fishing, we'd know on a little more, but man, they've done a lot of a lot of really cool work uh here in Minnesota. So uh I would you know my hats off to them, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 11:05

Haven't they made some lakes that are kind of like trophy lakes and are are trying to manage for that?

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Pretty much the whole state is um that way now. Uh the regulation put, I think you can keep one over fifty, and then the rest is mostly catch and release. So uh on the Mississippi River, it's all catch and release one over fifty. Um the St. Croix got a little bit work to do the rivers I fish, and then uh but yeah, I mean it's it it the the regulations are just um really, really kind of managed for that larger fish experience.

SPEAKER_06 11:44

I think that most musky fishermen probably take a lot of that on themselves too. They want that fish to go, you know, unless it's going on the wall, it's almost assuredly going back in the water.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Yeah, I mean, I you know, we always talk about trout guys being catch and released and all that. They, you know, musky anglers make trout guys look, you know, barbaric, to be honest. You know, I mean that's kind of a scared word. But I mean I love it. Makes me understand it. I I think the world record, you know, is gonna be caught, but it's never gonna be official because I just don't think anyone has the guts. A real ardent musky angler would never kill a fish. I mean, it's they're that that catch-on lease ethic in in musky anglers is I don't know. I don't think there is a stronger one, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_07 12:34

So wouldn't they uh would they tell anybody where they caught it?

SPEAKER_02 12:39

That's the there's just, you know, yes, I think they would. They're small circle. Um but everybody knows everything these days. I mean, there's not there's not a lot of secrets anymore. Uh people know where big fish live. Uh Mosgangos know how to catch them if they can. Um it's it's not just yeah. I mean, it's like I don't know. I in my book I, you know, wrote like something about Lake Minnetonka, which is hard of the metro area. It's got some of the biggest fish in the stain in it, but every fish that's big in that lake is marked on every guide's GPS or you know, Maranth or whatever you want to call it. You know, so you go in August and I pull a boat, I pull six guides' boats up, flip on their their you know, electronics, and they all have that same fish marked on that same reef. Um so there's no if you're at it, you know where they're at. And uh there's just not a whole lot of secrecy anymore in it in it, to be honest with you. I mean, I'm sure there's some, but um for the most part, if you want a big fish, you know where they live.

SPEAKER_05 13:55

Lancide these fish live 25 or 30 years. Oh wow. So um it's a long-lived fish in in respect to what we're used to. Yeah. And uh, I think that plays into what he's describing. But so Kip, are are any of uh is this Ford facing sonar? Is that making a play in the muskie world and causing some disruption?

SPEAKER_02 14:21

Yeah, I was kind of hoping you wouldn't put that really you know we get to the controversial topics over here. Yeah, it's it's a bad one. Um yes, it's it's it's not I'm not a big fan. I don't, you know, learn to fish, you know, learn the learn. I mean, uh muskies, if nothing, are predictable. You know, you know where they're gonna be in June, you know where they're gonna be in August, you know where they're gonna be in the fall for the most part. Um, they're very patternable. Uh and like you said, they learn a they live a long time, and it doesn't take much to educate a muskie. I mean, they are smart. The fish on Lake Minnetonke have seen every bait imaginable. I mean, I don't know, I forgot what I did for the math, but I mean they've see 15 hours of baits. I think I put down, I did the math and talked to a few guides out there. They see about 15 hours of baits a a week. That's in front of their face. I mean, so the window for that those fish that are educated like that to eat is probably 10 minutes, maybe every three days. You know, so I mean they just not gonna unless they really want to eat, they're not they're just not gonna. I mean, Amen, brother. Learn to fish. Yeah, learn to fish. Um I had a guy yet last this week pull up on me on a big flats, mama fishing, and I'm like you know, I can just see him scanning, throwing us, you know, showing where to clients where to throw, and I'm like, you know, I don't know. It's just learn to fish. You know, I mean if you're I get it for putting clients on fish and all that, but you're also the fisheries are harder and harder and harder every day. We talked about that before we even started, and um that kind of pressure just you know, I think the fish are still there. They're just they're harder and harder to catch every year. I mean, that's that's basically what I see.

SPEAKER_04 16:29

It just seems to me like um this is the kind of sport that's a sport. Um not as much like we're gonna, you know, the populations are big, we're gonna go catch our limit and put them in the freezer. Um so I I don't really see the fun in in using underwater technology to you know to see the fish and then put the bait right in front of its mouth. Well, it's tough.

SPEAKER_06 16:54

It's tough enough, and then you you add fly fishing them to the equation. Yeah, I I kind of think it would be the same as you know from going to a compound bow to a recurve bow on on a boonacrocket whitetail, right?

SPEAKER_04 17:09

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. That's a good analogy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 17:14

So you know, just obviously thinking about the turkey hunting thing, thinking about, you know, the comparison we were making here. Physiologically, is there something that the muskies have that you know other fish don't that make them, I mean, is their brain that much bigger? Is their eyesight that much better? Like physiologically, I mean, we always, you know, moss yoke was founded on the turkey's eyesight, you know what I mean? So, you know, I didn't know if if that played into it, or they're just that damn moody.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Just that damn moody. There's nothing about it.

SPEAKER_07 17:46

No super special eye socket or eye placement or nothing to make some.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

They're moody. You know, they're just weird fish.

SPEAKER_04 17:58

Okay. I mean, they've I was reading through your book, and you know, a lot of this, you know, you may it seems like they're not really scared. I mean, it's I don't know, the the big adult ones, you know, they'll follow you, they'll bite, you know, where they can see the boat. But you know, it's like they're impossible to catch, but then when they want to bite, you know, they might bite in view of the boat and the fishermen. So it's just kind of an interesting scenario there.

SPEAKER_07 18:27

Got to be right place, right time.

SPEAKER_06 18:29

So that brings up a question I have. So when you raise a fish or you or you get a follow, do you sit there and I I know some anglers that would sit there and hammer that fish for the next hour after they see see a big fish. Or I know a lot of anglers that will also they'll let that fish rest and come back in a you know a couple hours. What what's your suggestion?

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Um, I would, you know, I'd if we move a big fish um and it comes in and it looks somewhat hot, you know, it's not you know that typical, lazy, oh, this kind of cool thing. But it looks like it's a little jacked up, and you can probably get it to go. Uh I'll switch flies, do a different color, something like that, go back at it. Um, but I'm not gonna sit there and pound that fish for an hour. I mean, A, I'm not that patient. And B, most of the time I'm in a drift boat, so I can't really go back to get that. Now, I might put a motor on this fall because I'm getting old, but um, to go back and target them like an hour later or let them sit, or I'll roll back up, drop the anchor and just chill for 15 minutes or you know, um, and then run it again to see if we can get them to go. Most of the time they don't. Uh that's just so read the fish. Read the fish. I mean, if you are at it long enough, you know what that fish wants to do. If he's coiling up or if he's or if he's just, you know, behind the fly, just kind of with the tinsel tickling his nose, singing and he is just not gonna happen. So um not to say that he can't. Um if you know, everything being equal, if I had the chance to go back and fish that like on a major or a minor or something like that, I'd probably go. If it was a substantial fish, I'd probably go back and hit him um on a on a you know a different time. So yeah, it's read the fish. I mean, they're easy to read. I mean, they you you can kind of tell if a fish is jacked up or not. I mean, the water's pretty clear for the most part. You see them coming in and um yeah, you can you can read them. Do you fly fish more or traditional uh fish for muskies more? I haven't thrown a traditional, I haven't had a client or throwing traditional in probably three years.

SPEAKER_05 20:56

So we've all watched uh these the videos, uh Lanny, I'm sure you've seen them where fishermen uh all of a sudden they get you know they get excited, oh there's one following, and they start doing this figure eight thing at the edge of the boat. I guess you can do that with a fly rod as well. But what's going on with that figure eight? And it looks like you get a lot of strikes then.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

They never show you the other ones. You know, they never show anyone shooting a four-corn buck. It's always a you know, big one. But uh yeah. Um yeah, I mean it's you do it. I mean, it's all it's most mostly just a change of direction and change of depth. Um, people forget about the depth change, especially with a flyer on it's nine feet. I can jam that thing down deep and then bring it up and around. Um, so you're doing everything both just to try to get that fish to go, okay, it's getting away or something. But man, you know, I've seen them turn on that thing, you know, for eight, nine, ten turns. Just kind of following it and being, and you're like, you're not gonna go, you know. Where it's kind of like reading the fish, like we like Todd just said, you know, if you see a fish coming in hot, you know you've got a chance to to um to turn it and get it to eat. But with the fly rat rod at the boat, it's yeah, it's just I never want to have an eat at the boat, to be honest with you. It's just so hard with the fly rod to get a hook in them to keep getting unless they're going away, you know, and they eat it and you're right in the face, and then you can stick them. But it's hard to put a the fly rod won't set a hook. I mean, it just won't. You know, I've tarpon fished enough that you're not gonna I mean you just can't do it. So you have to strip set and pull the line more than uh than the rod will do. Where a traditional gear, it's a two by four with some guides and a crank on it. If they eat out of the boat, you just slam them and you've got them. So um it's a lot different with the fly rod versus uh gear.

SPEAKER_07 23:01

So Land, you you fish the boundary waters, of course.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 23:05

And they've been in the news a lot. Yeah, boundary waters and uh I think the Canadian side's called Quettico. So have you seen some muskies, moved some muskies, caught some muskies? Um uh no, we mainly caught smallmouth. Um, you know, and I did catch, I thought it was a pike, um, but maybe it was a muskie. I was really young when I was up there, and when we went later, we targeted uh smallmouth. Uh but I do have to say, uh, of all the things I've been blessed to do in my life, um, that if you haven't been to the Boundary Waters or to Quetico, uh and you're an outdoorsman, you need to spend some time up there because it's quite amazing.

SPEAKER_05 23:41

What uh uh uh Kip, it all that water up there is in the news lately. What's going on up there?

SPEAKER_02 23:47

Um it depends on what you're talking about. They're proposing mines up there, there it's burning. Um a lot going on at the boundary waters, but um so yeah, I mean it's it's it's a natural area, so when it starts on fire, they kind of let it roll unless it's getting by somebody's house or something. And there's not hardly any houses in there, but um there's none really. Um few here and there. But so that's you know, we had a really rough spring up there with fires and a lot of um, you know, it's just ripe for a fire, so it happens, you know. I'm not a big, you know, let it let it burn, I guess. It's good for the critters, you know, in the long run. So um and then there's coup there's talk of you know, there's a big copper nickel deposit up there that they want to get at. And um it's pretty controversial uh with everything going on. It's you know, it depends on what side of the fence you're on on it. Um it just never been a real successful sulfide mine, so everyone's pretty wit worried about it. It's a pretty magical place, as this you've said. So uh yeah, I mean, does it need to be protected? Yeah, but yeah, so that's kind of what's going on up there.

SPEAKER_07 25:05

So yeah, I've always heard it was just you could just wear out, wear the fish out. I'm telling you, I caught so many fish that it pulled the back treble hook out of a lure. Well, yeah. I don't know about that. I I mean I didn't think you I should probably mention because I knew you were gonna doubt me.

SPEAKER_05 25:22

Well, I mean, it could have been a you know, the lure could have been nonetheless, it could have been faulty. It probably wouldn't have real problems.

SPEAKER_07 25:28

And it and it made it it made us it might have spun so much that it unscrewed. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 25:33

So speaking of lures, I got a question about uh you know choosing regular luric lure characteristics, if I remember size, vibration, profile, uh, profile, the action, the speed, are choosing flies. But so when choosing flies, what specifically are you you looking for?

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Um for me, um motion. So, you know, I love a walk the dog, you know, and I'll tie, you know, one of my guides is probably the best flight tire, musky flig tire in the world. I mean, he's his flies are just unbelievable. Um, so I'm looking for that, and then I'm looking for a big push of water. We don't have blades, we don't have big plastics, we don't have any of that stuff that causes that vibration. So I they usually have a big deer hair head of some kind or uh um something that's gonna move a lot of water under the water and affect that lateral line. Um so that's those are the two, that's about all you really can control with the fly uh is the movement and how much water you're pushing. So I mean if you look at you know the old double-bladed bucktails, I mean, you know, back when I first started, those things were insane. You could you just had to ding dangle in the water and you catch a fish, it seemed like. But um, you know, they're educated to that now, too. So you're just trying to cause as much vibration and noise under the water as you can to kind of get them to trigger and and go. Interesting. Yeah. So that, but that's about all you can really and then color. Um, you know, but as we all know, if a mustard wants to eat something, it's gonna eat doesn't, you know, it can be pink with purple polka nuts and he's gonna eat it. And just, you know, you just gotta find that happy fish.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

What are they eating? And and you know, what are you trying to mimic with your with your flies most of the time?

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Um red horse suckers basically is their filet mignon of uh uh you know, they probably eat that 90% of the time. And then the rivers I I mostly I all well I fish some lakes, but mostly I only fish rivers. And that's the natural, I mean, they're just loaded with with red horse suckers. So that's so like a pink, they got kind of a pinkish hue to them. So a lot of fly guys throw a little pink in there and browns, like a brown with a pink, and then some copper flash, that type of thing. That's probably your best go-to. One of my hottest flies ever was a stupid um can't think of the word, like uh fire tiger type thing. You know, I called it the Rastafly. You know, so I don't know what the heck that imitates, but you know, for like five years they just ate the heck out of it. So um, yeah, I mean, it just I think it had more of a nice kick to it and a groove to it than than something else, you know. They just it had that special sauce.

SPEAKER_05 32:29

So, Kip, what is uh can you kind of explain in layman's terms the difference in pike and a muskie? They sure look a lot alike, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

They look a lot alike. Um for years I've joked around um muskies are longies and pike are latties, so it's latitudinal. Their stripes go like latitude and muskies are longitudinal. So um I always made fun of all you know to my close personal friends. I've never really said this out loud, but uh, you know, guys that will call small small jaws or some other stupid name, I think. So I I came up with longies, you know. We gotta go chase some longies, just to be a joke. But uh it's a good way of telling it the difference between a pike and a and a muskie. So they look very similar. Um muskies when they get a bigger, especially the Leech Lake strain up here in Minnesota, they kind of lose their longitudinal and they're just big green, you know, kind of an iridescent green color. So they kind of lose their striping when they're young, they're just gorgeous, beautiful, green is striped out fish. A 25-inch muskie is almost like an electric barracuda kind of. It's really cool looking.

SPEAKER_06 33:51

But yeah. Before we started, Bobby, you uh had mentioned something about the moon. I want to know about two things weather influence things. I want to know about the moon and the barometric pressure and how they affect. Um, okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Uh when I first started, my the guy that got me into it, Troy Anderson, he was like the original musky guy here in the metro area with the fly. Um, good friend of mine. And he would say, okay, we got to get out to the lake. You know, we fished mulacks back in the day when there were really big dumb fish up there. And uh it's still really big fish, but there's not as many, and they're pretty smart. But um we got to get out there. There's a major coming at 9.15, you know, and I'm like, whatever, dude. You know, majors major, you know. So um it doesn't take but a couple years to figure out it's a real deal. So uh that's like we were talking about moving a fish. If he wasn't hot, maybe come back when the majors or minors going on, so that's either moon above, moon below, or like moon rising, moon setting. Those are the two four, those are the four that I look for. Um, and I'm more of a rising setting guy. I don't know why, because you can stack. So if you have a sunset and a moon rise and there's a storm coming in, you know, you quit work and go out fishing that night. Um, so that's kind of what uh I look for. And then there's full moon, new moon. I'm more of a new moon guy, um, just because I think during the full moon, they'll eat a little bit at night, and you might miss that one. New moon, they seem to be a little a touch more happier if they if that that that's a thing. So uh it's real. Um watch your, you know, if you're a musky guy, you know when the new moon's coming up, you know when the you know, you know all that stuff because that's your bite window, especially on a really high pressure, like I was talking about Lake Minataka and in the metro here. Um the odds, you know, it's a it's a 10% increase, I think, is the math that the researchers have done over the years. So is it a is it a lot? Not really, but it it certainly makes a big difference. So um you gotta kind of figure out, and then one of my guides or buddies said, you know, I like to pre I like the tailgate before the big party, and I've kind of grown to agree with that. Um so like three days before a new moon, or three or four days before a full moon, the ramp-up seems to be a little bit better than the actual event. You know, how many times in the Super Bowl tailgate's usually better than the game? So that's kind of how I analogized that. Um you can, you know, I client gives me a big calendar with all the moon phases on it every year. So it's hanging up out in the garage. So but I have a nap. You can go on you can go online or on your phone and have a nap. And I can be out in the water and go, oh, okay, we got something coming up at 1140. I want to make sure I'm in a spot where there's a a fish, you know. So like if we're kind of buzzing through a river, you know, uh, this isn't the greatest spot, but at 1140, I have we have something that's might happen. So then I'm I'm gonna make sure I'm in a spot where I know there's a fish.

SPEAKER_05 37:29

Y'all catch a lot of other uh do y'all catch smallmouth or do y'all catch pike when you're fishing for muskies?

SPEAKER_02 37:35

Um smallmouth a little bit and some pike. You know, if it's a good pike day, you might as well reel it up and go home because the muskies aren't gonna eat. I mean, uh muskies love to eat pike too. Um they're a they're uh you know arch enemies, I guess. They eat they're kind of the same thing. And um interesting study when I was doing research for my book. Um if you have a lake that doesn't have pike in it, a muskie will rarely get above 40 inches. Where if you have a lake that has pike in it, you'll have 50-inch class fish if everything else is right, all things being equal. So pike and musky kind of have this weird thing going on, and I think they probably just clear out each other's biomass so they can get bigger, you know.

SPEAKER_04 38:24

So yeah, go ahead, Doug. Well, I was gonna say the uh the pike, uh you know, you you hear about people eating them and stuff. Um uh do they have are there a lot more numbers of pike? Uh it it just sounds like the way you're describing it that you know, there's like a one muskie every mile on the river. Um what are what is their population density like on a on your average lake?

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yeah, I mean it's um it isn't many. I mean, so you know, I mean, there is some lakes, you know, but um uh there it uh 50-inch fish takes a hundred acres to grow. So you can if you have a 2,000, you know, and that's not to say that every 100 acres has a 50-inch fish, but that's what it takes to grow a 50-inch fish is a hundred acres of water. That puts it in perspective. Yeah. Yes, they're not a lot of fish. You know, we didn't see anything today. How many big muskies do you think we rolled over today? I don't know, 10 or 12, and I'm like, yeah, maybe three or four, you know, on an eight-mile float, you know, because they're constant, well, they are concentrated in the fall. But uh, yeah, it's they're just the alpha predator. There's not a lot of uh there's a lot of mice, but there's not a lot of foxes, right? I mean, so it's kind of the same, you know. I use that analogy, you know, you can have a lot of bait fish and a lot of smaller fish, but there's only so many alpha predators, and they're certainly the king of the jungle when it comes to lakes around here.

SPEAKER_04 40:00

So do you guys have these fish named? I mean, like when you're rolling up to this log at this time of year or whatever, I mean, is is that gonna be Joe sitting there waiting on you? And uh, I mean, does he commonly see a lot of baits thrown at it?

SPEAKER_02 40:15

Uh yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, most guides have fish named. I mean, uh it's kind of that the story I told about Lake Minitaka. Everyone knows that Susie's sitting on that rock point and she's seen, and it's you know, it's a big caravan out on that lake. You know, there'll be 30, 40 guys out there on an evening fishing um muskies, and they just kind of get in a circle and they hit all the spots, you know. So that fish is seeing a bait probably every 20 minutes. Okay. Most evenings, you know. So yeah. On the river, not so much, because they are um and and the fish and lakes move too, but rivers are pretty, they they're moving a lot more. They're migrant, not migratory, but some, you know, they're following the bait fish basically. So the fish right now, all the suckers are in fast shallow water, and the and the muskies are sitting right below them when they want to eat, they run up into the shallows and have one and then go and take a break for three days, you know, if they eat a big enough one. So um, and then in the winter, everything or the fall, everything all the musk or the excuse me, all the suckers go to the deeper water to hold for the winter, and then the the muskies are in that deeper water, um, you know, just kind of hanging out with the with the bait. So you follow the bait, you follow the fish.

SPEAKER_06 41:40

Yeah. How does water temperature or and and turnover affect what you're doing? I guess in rivers it's it's really not that big of a uh a deal, but uh water temperature uh I suppose could be.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

Yeah, it's um it's a big factor, at least on the rivers. I don't know much about the turnover thing, to be honest with you. I won't, you know, I won't even comment on it. So because I don't, you know, we I fish rivers 99% of the time, so we don't have turnover, but I mean falls have been pretty darn warm. You know, I mean not you know, I duck hunt too, and it's you know, you maybe got a two-week window now right now for a duck hunt when our season's so screwed up, but um yeah, you need the cooler water, and they don't do well in the heat. They're very they make trout look uh vibrant in the heat. I mean, you can't I mean I wouldn't we had that big heat, you know, heat zapper a couple weeks ago, and no one should have been fishing those days for muskies. I mean, you'll you'll literally kill them if it's that water gives above 80. You should stop fishing muskies. And I mean, we had 86 a couple days, really. I mean, it was it was hot.

SPEAKER_07 42:59

Sound pretty cool to me. 86. Well, take that. Yeah, it's old.

SPEAKER_04 43:07

Do you think some of these you know, larger trophy fish get caught multiple times a season? Or um, I mean, is there that few of them?

SPEAKER_02 43:18

That's a great question. I think once they get caught, they're done in the fall. You know, just my my experience. You know, once you move that big fish or you have one, you know, with a good zip code on it, and they get pretty educated, you know. So um, yeah, they can they can get caught two or three times a fall, probably, or throughout the season, but it doesn't take much for them fish to know that yeah, that that bucktail looking weird thing is probably not too good for me.

SPEAKER_04 43:53

Yeah, it jerks me into outer space, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or it didn't feel right or something.

SPEAKER_05 43:59

So um so Kip, what can you tell us about? I keep seeing these things called tiger muskies. What what tell me about those?

SPEAKER_02 44:10

We don't have a ton of them. They plant a lot of them out west. Um basically it's just a cross between a pike and a muskie. So they say that they're not as moody, but I've heard guys that chase them out west in Utah and reservoirs and stuff like that. They're just as moody as as uh they're cool looking, though. I've never caught one, so we don't have a ton of them here. So um they do plant some, but um, it's more of a like a western reservoir fish. Uh they can occur naturally. Um pretty rare uh because pike spawn so so early in the you know, I mean ice is barely out and they're up spawning, and muskies probably spawn right before smallmouth do. So they're a little late, later spawner. Um, and the pike will ravage um those fry a lot. That's probably why you have to.

SPEAKER_06 45:03

But the the tigers can't reproduce though. No, right. So I know that the state of Minnesota, and in fact, look back in in old Game Keeper podcasts. We had a a gal from the Minnesota Fisheries uh fish hatchery on, and they are actually breeding and releasing tiger muskies into certain systems because they can you know clean up some certain sizes of fish and they won't uh they won't, you know, proliferate.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Uh yeah. So it's probably yeah, probably here in Minnesota, it's more of a management tool than it is. Um I mean, I wish they'd put a few more out. I'd like to get one, but yeah, I think they want to keep it also. I know they don't spawn, but they just kind of, you know, the whole natural, this is our fish, and that type of thing. But yeah, they'll put them in a lake and and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 45:52

So do you target them similarly? Uh on the Yeah, yeah, they're just a muskie that looks prettier.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

Okay. They're pretty cool looking. Uh but yeah, I mean they're they're they're just an alpha predator, just like uh a regular muskie or a pike, a big pike. And they're you know, pike, our pipe, you know, some couple clients are I want to catch some pike, and I'm like, oh, okay, whatever. Um you know, we just I I hate them to be honest with them. We caught a decent one yesterday, but it's like, yeah, they stink, they're slimy, and they eat my flies.

SPEAKER_07 46:27

So uh we uh we actually speared the daggum things with frog gigs.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Yeah, I mean we have uh you can spear pike in the winter here in dark houses, they call it. And I don't, you know, that's kind of a real, real rich tradition here in Minnesota. You know, you have a nice ice shack with a big hole in it and no windows, and it's dark. And yeah, you know, I've done it a couple times. It's pretty cool. Um it's just kind of neat to do is to sit there and look at the aquarium and wait for a pipe to come by in an illegal way.

SPEAKER_07 47:00

All that I think that's I might have been doing about it. Because I was like, well, maybe I wouldn't spend a lot of people.

SPEAKER_06 47:08

There's not not many states allow it anymore. I think it's like Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota are about the only places where that's that's very popular.

SPEAKER_04 47:18

That's the deal where you have the decoy hanging down in the water.

SPEAKER_02 47:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:22

Yep. Yeah, you can either put a sucker or a wooden decoy, and then you just kind of jig it and it does a big circle. And I mean, there's a whole art to that, too. I have a client that collects those things and they're pretty cool. So yeah, it's they're like words of art, some of them.

SPEAKER_05 47:40

No, all right, Kip, talk to us about um like this magical and and and I'm just assuming that fifty inches maybe is a magical number in the musky world.

SPEAKER_07 47:51

I did quick research. I was legal. I was in Alaska. We're good. Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh good.

SPEAKER_05 47:59

But and and can you talk to us about trophy fish? And and what what's that is it are y'all going by inches or or weight or what is it? And and what what's the what's what is everybody trying to target?

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Uh 50 inches. That's the magic number. Always will be. You know, I mean it's just uh real special fish. I mean, there's just not there's very, very few of them. Um it's just that's probably a 25, 30 year old fish. Uh it's pretty smart, it's big. But yeah, it's 50 inches, you know, smallmouth 20 inches, trout 20 inches. There's always that magic. You know, walleye's what 20 to 30. So it's always those, you know, for a fly guy, it's always inches. Um gear guy, it's some maybe pounds or whatever. But for muskies, it's always been 50 inches, probably always will be. Um, it's just uh it's just a real rare fish. You know, I've only caught a handful of them with clients and um you know, I've caught a lot of 45s, you know, but to to break that at 50 is yeah, that's pretty special. That's that's like shooting a 30-point buck in the UP. I mean, yeah, I mean it's it's it yeah it just doesn't happen a lot.

SPEAKER_05 49:18

So what weight rods are y'all using for these big fish?

SPEAKER_02 49:22

Um I use uh there's some really good specialty stuff out there right now that's just made for muskie fishing, and they're just basically two by fours with guides and a fly reel in line. And um so they're probably 11 or 12 weights, and it's more about the fly than it is the fish. Um I like to throw as big a fly as I can get away with. Um and I mostly just target them in the fall. Uh over the years, people have wanted to fish them in the summer, and it ends up being a smallmouth trip anyway. Uh they'll just say, Can we just smallmouth fish now? Because they, you know, they'll go for two, three hours and not see anything, and then you know, uh, let's catch some fish. So or bass. So I'm like, no, I'm not gonna if you want to do it in the summer, that's fine, but we're not bringing any bass gear, you know. I'm either in or out, you know. So 'cause the minute you start bopping back and forth, you're you're out of the game pretty much, I think. Because a muskie's gonna bite a bass fly that day, not a musky fly. You know, it's just the odds are you know something stupid's gonna happen. And so I just do basically my smallmouth season runs till mid-September. I go on a vacation usually for a week or two, and then I start up October 1st or thereabouts and run till when it I can't run anymore. So it's when the ice is out. So that's usually Thanksgiving time, maybe probably mid-November is when you're gonna last get a shot at them. Well, that's the lighter goats, the bigger the fish are, and they're not happier, but the little fish kind of disappear when it gets really cold, and you're just left kind of with big fish, and that's kind of from November 1st to the 15th, is probably you know, if I was gonna fish two weeks, that would be the two weeks I'd fish, probably.

SPEAKER_05 51:19

So Lanny, but Kip sounds kind of grumpy, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_07 51:22

I mean, he sounds like he's pretty opinionated and it makes him a good musky fish out by the clutch.

SPEAKER_05 51:30

Yeah, like Lanny with his uh and Dudley with their ADD, it'd probably drive you crazy.

SPEAKER_07 51:35

I can tell you I'm not built for muskie fishing.

SPEAKER_05 51:37

Yeah. Yeah. No, in the time of year when Kip's on the river, there's ducks flying, there's bucks rutting. Now, can you bring a rifle or a shotgun when you muskie fish?

SPEAKER_02 51:51

I I've been only on occasion to have the shotgun in the muskie boat. But uh only on smaller stuff. You know, there's a couple little rivers uh that we fish for muskies, and I can actually have a gun in those, but on the big river you can, of course. But uh yeah, it's pretty, you know. Come mid-October, I'm looking at the sky going, ooh, there's some, there's some.

SPEAKER_07 52:16

And uh tarpon fishing to me. Very much. Yeah, I mean, it really does. You know, this would be perfect. Yeah, tarpon are much easier. That's saying a lot. That's saying a lot. It's saying a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

Bleep you. Or a muskie, you don't even know half the time if he's you know, he's giving you the finger and you don't want to see him, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 52:45

Yeah, yeah, you don't even know you're doing it.

SPEAKER_02 52:47

Where um Tarkin's gonna give you the finger in person, right? You know, so that's at least you see him, yeah. That's right.

SPEAKER_05 52:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:55

So that's so Kip, are there landowners in Minnesota and Wisconsin up there that are that stock muskies in their private lakes? And can they manage those a little bit differently and the fish be easier to catch?

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Um I, you know, there's we just don't have that whole pond thing like you guys do. I mean, there's not there are people that have them, but it's not like, you know, being around Les and Jay and all those guys for years, um, we just don't have that kind of culture, I guess, if that's what you'd want to call it.

SPEAKER_06 53:32

When you get into Ohio and Illinois and where they have all those old pit mines out there that they that that they fill back up. I know there are a few people that that do it there, but I would agree up here it doesn't happen that much.

SPEAKER_02 53:46

It doesn't happen. You know, some of them will have a little farm pond and they're probably not gonna put a musky in it. They're just put some large mouth and some bluegills, just kind of like you guys do. But um Yeah, it's just not a thing, you know, to be honest with you. I mean not a bigger one, you know, some of these big ponds that less than those guys manage are pretty substantial, so we just don't have that. It's you know, we're a very public water oriented state, uh along with Wisconsin and Michigan for the most part, too. Um so we have access to pretty much everything. There's a few private lakes, and there's probably more than I think, but most of the big muskie waters are pretty darn public. And um it was an I just heard a new study from Illinois. Uh they planted muskies like forty I don't know. I'm making numbers up, but it's it's I'm close, I think. They put like 40 muskies into a pond and fished them every day for like you know, three months, four months, whatever it was. Maybe not every day, but you'll get the point. And they caught a lot of fish right away, um, and then it started tapering down, and then towards the end of the study, they couldn't move a fish. Those fish were still there, they were all pit tagged and everything. So that kind of proves to you how difficult they can be, and you know, it's tough to manage for them because of that.

SPEAKER_05 55:13

You know, let me do this. Uh, Kip, I want you to be thinking about one of your favorite muskie stories that you can tell. And and while you're thinking about that, Todd, would you tell the story of the muskie that you caught when I was with you?

SPEAKER_06 55:26

Oh my. It's been it's been told on this podcast before, but so I'll try to do the short version. It was uh in 2004, I fell 26 feet onto a concrete slab, became a paraplegic. So uh this was just uh oh, about a month or so after I got out of the hospital. I was barely able to get around. And uh Bobby he liked that style of fish, I think he said. So let's go muskie fishing. And we go up northern Minnesota, and uh I didn't I didn't want to wear out all day long, so I kind of played it as a joke. I'm going, no, it's just not the right time yet. And Bobby and uh the other guy that was with us uh were casting all day long, and I waited until afternoon, and I I looked at the water, like, okay, now it's time. And uh I made probably five casts. I had maybe a 30-incher come in and follow, did a figure eight on him, and and he went shooting off, and it was a big old white bucktail. More muskies caught on that bait than than any other, I think. And I I tried to cast in front of where I saw this fish going, and that lure hit the water, and a different fish, uh, a different fish hit, much larger fish. And uh fought that for for quite some time, fell out of my chair. Bobby had to grab me and pull me up by the belt, but uh, but we got it in the boat.

SPEAKER_07 57:11

That's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_05 57:12

54 inches. Uh so Bruce Tudollock when he was with us. It was we were trying to, we wanted to get Todd out, you know. But but literally, he he called his shot. Bruce and I cast all day long, never saw a fish. And then Todd gets up and calves three or four times. Of course, the water looks right, fellas. Well, actually, what Todd didn't didn't study was Todd kept saying, when the moon hits the top of those trees, that's when I'm gonna fish. And he sat there until the moon was almost at those trees, and that's when he got up and he literally caught the fish then.

SPEAKER_07 57:51

So he knows what he's doing. He just shined all over y'all. I'm still having shoulder problems from all that category. So you never caught a musket? No, never caught a musket. So this is on your bucket list. I don't know if it's on my bucket list, but uh fishing with Kip is on my bucket list. Yeah, I mean, you got to. You chase the tarpon down. Let's see what you really got. Do you have the backbone to catch a musket?

SPEAKER_05 58:11

I've been in a boat with him floating down the Mississippi River. Here's what's interesting is he fishes that Mississippi River up there where it's really small. Yeah, and clear. And he also travels to the where the Mississippi River comes out in the Gulf every year and fishes for redfish. Oh, come on. He's up and down the Mississippi River. And he's a lot of fun. His boat, there's no motor, there's no electronics. When you get in the boat, it's him and a couple of fly rods, a bag of cherries. Yes, sir. And then and there's there's it's pure fishing, and there's there's no distractions. You gotta listen to his stories all day long. He's sitting there rowing you, and if you like you miss a fish, there's no going back to that fish because the current, you just get the look, yeah, way to go.

SPEAKER_07 58:59

Because you got like 10 miles you've got to cover the put you on him.

SPEAKER_03 59:02

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_05 59:03

I love that.

SPEAKER_07 59:05

Yeah, I did my job.

SPEAKER_05 59:07

Kip, it's a lot of fun. Have you you've gotten to have some good stories with some of your your clients through the years.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

Yeah, I got a lot of lot of good stories. Um, yeah, some crazy stuff's happened for what's it almost 25 years now. But uh yeah, it's just uh a lot of muskie, a lot of a lot of smallmouth, a lot of character stories. I mean, it's just that's half the fun of being a guide, I guess, is uh just being around you know great people and and having a lot of fun. But uh probably the best muskie story I have is the one that never happened, you know, it got away. But uh and it's it still haunts me. But um we talked about naming fish. Well, I had this fish that I'd probably chased for 10 years, and uh we called her Big Bertha, and it's probably rocket here, but anyway. Um she lived in this hole all the time, you know, and uh we'd move her maybe once or twice a year, you know. Usually in the summer, small mouth fishing, and then in the fall we'd we'd move her maybe twice, you know, and then that would be it. She'd she was smart. But we did a veterans trip um because it for the vets they had a deer hunt, and then we took some guys out musky fishing. There was probably ten vets that we took out, and I took one guy out never fly fished before in his life. He had muskie fished um and he'd caught a big musky. I didn't know that until after, but um we were coming down, and I go, okay, that rock right there is Big Bertha. He puts a cast on it, and she comes up and just smokes the fly and just eats it, and he's got her dead to rights. And so we're fighting her, fighting her, fighting her, and I mean it's she's 50, probably four at this time. He's just a giant, giant fish. And she's up on top, just kind of hovering there, tired. And I go, I think if you put a little pressure on her, she'll turn her head, and we can just dip her and you we win. And he did that, and she blew up and the fly came flying out. And I, you know, my mother was there, she'd washed my mouth out with soap. But yeah, yeah, it was it was the worst experience. It was the best and the worst all all within like three minutes, you know. So, and the guy is like, oh my god, that was the best fish I never caught. You know, he's like, that was so cool. And I'm like, I don't give a crap about cool. I want to catch that fish. And that was the last time I saw her. Um, I don't know if you know, I don't ever think we saw her again. Um so yeah, that's that. And then one guy was gonna, you know, he was not finishing his cast. Um, he's a very good client of mine, and he was going to pick up the cast to rethrow, and the musky came literally chased his fly out of the water in it mid-air as he was trying to pull it back to back cast. And if he wouldn't have hooked the fish, he would have fallen right out the back of the boat because he just screamed like a little girl. And he ended up catching it. It was like 45 inches. So it was that was pretty spectacular.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:23

So when you talk about finishing the cast, you're talking about stripping it all the way back to the buttons.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:29

Stripping it all the way to the boat, and then at least I know you know, I've been around enough clients, I know they're not gonna figure it every they're just not gonna do it. They're just gonna get lazy and not do it. So at least come in, turn, you know, at least turn, give me a half circle. So if something is falling down below, that turn might get him to show, and then you can go into your figure eight and try to because it you know, if he's falling down below and you can't see him and you don't turn, he's not, you know, he's gonna what was that? But if you do turn it and he comes up off the bottom on that turn, he's for the most part pretty aggressive, and you've got a shot at putting a hook in him, but uh, if you don't do it, you'll never know, you know. So it's uh it's it's a hard it's you know, it's just the whole muskie thing is it's it's the six inches in between your ears that that really make you a good angler. You have to have that, you know, the hunting, you know, and just uh tenacity to stay with it over and over and over again because it's man, I know after like three days of not moving fish, I'm on suicide watch almost because it's it's just a grind, you know, it's just brutal. And you're just like, when is one gonna show up? Let's go here. You know, I'm I'm running out of patience, but it's it's more mental than anything else.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:21

Well, it it you know, it sounds like it's you know the gold at the end of the rainbow is is worth the effort, you know, or or people wouldn't be uh people wouldn't be obsessing over it like they do.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:31

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:34

Kip, have you got any advice if a guy gets lucky enough to catch one of these fish, how he needs to handle it? Is there specialized nets? Is there do you keep them in the water? Can you can you touch them for photography? How long do you need to can should you keep them out of the water or limit the the time out of the water?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:49

Yeah, they're um they're pretty fragile fish. For fish that big, they're very fragile. Um you know, I've killed maybe one or two that I know of. You know, it just got hooked too deep and we couldn't, you know, it it just bled out. But um, I think. Uh and we tried to resuscitate it for probably a half hour trying to get it in. It it just never went. But yeah, you have to be very, very careful with them there, especially in the heat. In the winter, uh, you know, not so much because it's cold, but um, or the fall, I guess not the winter, but um yeah, I mean when I catch one, I kind of just leave it. I have a regular big huge muskie net, and I just kind of let it chill in the net for a little bit before I start working on it, so it'll still have the hook in it. Or if I can reach down and get the pop it'll hook real easy. We just use single hooks, no trebles. Um, so they can be fairly easy to get out. Uh so I'll then I'll let it rest and then um then we'll get it out. I'll get the bump board ready, camera ready, everything ready, just let it chill, and then uh pull it up. And they have a, I don't know it's hard to explain here on a podcast, but um, they have a uh bone kind of underneath their jaw, like right here, and then you just put your hand in there like that and grab it, and then you just you support it because you'll break the back if you do the old you know lift thing. You always want to have two hands on it. Quick snap the photo, uh put it on the bump board if you if you are gonna measure it, and then slide her back in and just kind of let her, you know, hold her by the tail. Or sometimes if it's really bad, I'll put a bulk of grip on it. If I get a lot of current because I don't want to lose it, I'll put a bulk of grip in her mouth just uh kind of hold it, and when she starts kicking, then I'll just let her go. But yeah, it's it's you have to be pretty careful with them. They're pretty like I said, they're pretty they're real fragile fish. You wouldn't think they would be, but you know, they are.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:53

What's what's a uh a say a 45-inch fish weigh?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:58

Typically, 25, 30 depends on the fish when you caught them. You know, spring fish that are real bony and kind of beat up from the spawn. Uh fall fish, you know, they've been eating all summer, so they can get pretty pretty chunky, you know. It it all depends on the fish um and the strain that you have. Like we're blessed here in Minnesota. We have a uh fish, the Leach Lake strain, which is um famous lake up north, and that's part of the Mississippi. You know, the the river runs through it kinda. Um well it does, not kinda. And uh so that's the fish that we have on the Mississippi. The St. Croix fish are a little different. Um Snowpack, there's a couple of the different Wisconsin strains in there. But the Mississippi strain grows faster and bigger than their leech lake strain, I should say, grows faster and bigger than any other strains. So um we're pretty blessed. They get pretty, pretty thick. Um most in fact, a lot of the states now are planting Mississippi or uh leech lake strains, kind of, which I don't know if I agree with that, but you know, everyone wants to catch that 50-inch fish, so they're putting them in. They grow, you know, they're just uh genetically superior musky than the other strains, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:18

You know, so what about um white-tailed antler score? Can you can you compare a 50-inch fish? Like what would that be on the white-tail Boon and Crockett score? Is that a 200-inch deer, a 180?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:37

You know, I have no idea.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:46

So this is from back from from the muskie story I just told. I wanted to release the fish. And and the guide that we had with us uh said, that's like killing a boon and crockett white tail. And so I ended up uh I ended up killing the fish, and he's on my wall in my basement right now.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:08

So he said boon and crocking, Todd said, I'm in.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:14

Did y'all eat him, Todd? Nope. Went right to my taxidermist. He may have. I wonder what they taste like. I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:23

You won't let me eat tarpon. I mean, you won't even hardly let me tell you, yeah, largemouth bass, you won't even let us eat, but listen, let's not even talk about eating a muskie, okay?

SPEAKER_06 1:12:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:33

I guess it's like a marble.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:35

I mean, back in the day in Wisconsin on Sunday nights at the resorts, they had musky bakes. You know, they'd bake the whole muskie and back in the 20s and 30s, and it was it was a thing. You know, now it's it's uh would be you know unheard of, but yeah, every Sunday up the at there, a lot of the resorts up by Hayward, Northern Wisconsin, Boulder Junction, all that where they'd have the musky bakes. Um times.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:04

Well, it sounds like a unique fish, that's that's for sure. Yeah, I'd love to try it. All right, why don't we do this? Uh, Jackson, let's we got a trivia question that we created just for Todd and for Kip. All right. See if we can uh see if we can learn something here.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:20

So well, first we have our review winner for this week, who is Michael Bull. Baloo, who said very informative episode referring to our quail episode we just released. Oh, yeah. And he said the Game Keeper crew may have the best podcast in America. What? Yeah, baby. Hey, hey. I believe I hear you. He said he's gonna share the episode with each of his bird hunting friends.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:45

Golly. Wow. Did you make that up, Jackson?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:48

It sounds a little too good to be true. Yeah, maybe not. Thank you, Mr. Balloon.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:52

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, very nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:55

All right. So are there wild populations of muskies in other countries around the world?

SPEAKER_06 1:14:03

Oh. I think only Canada. Yeah, that would be it, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:12

Well, you may have seen a picture of Putin with a big fish. Was it a muskie or was it a pike? Y'all remember this?

SPEAKER_07 1:14:22

I thought you were finna ring the bell.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:24

I was, but I would guess it was a pike.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:28

Caveat. He paused too long between the it's dramatic. But do y'all remember Putin holding up this? He was shirtless and holding up a great big fish.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:38

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:39

Or was it a muskie, though?

SPEAKER_06 1:14:40

I think it was a pike. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:42

It's probably a pike, I would think. I don't know. I mean, I don't think there's muskies. You're right. It was a pike. It was a pike. It was a pike. So they were right.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:51

They were right. Ring the bell. So it's uh it's only found in uh in that part of North America and Canada. It's a very uh American North American America.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:02

Muskie's America. I like it. So you won, Kim. Yeah. What did he win, Bobby?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:09

Well, that means we get to go fishing.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:11

You want a fishing trip with Bobby?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:15

There you go. Uh did I win or lose on that?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:19

I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:20

Yeah, you yeah, if if you've got to take Bobby fishing, you've lost. He knows all about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:26

Yeah, no. No, that's not true.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:30

Well, look, we we've uh we've we've uh well I think we've all learned something here. Kip you're a really knowledgeable guy. I would recommend you've got a social media page. I think it's called at Wildwood Floats. Do I have that right, Kip?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:45

Yeah, Wildwood Float Trips. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:47

So Wildwood Float Trips.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:50

And so yeah, y'all ought to.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:52

Nuts to the Muskies. I want to go smallmouth fishing with this guy. Yeah. Looking looking at that. So it's pretty good right now.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:01

Yeah, he is the guy. So uh y'all y'all should go follow him. And if you get up around Minnesota and you want to go catch some fish, Kip is the guy to talk to.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:09

Kip's the man. I appreciate it. What else? Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:13

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:14

Shoot. What else we got? Any more questions? Uh food plot season's here. So mine would just be self-serving announcements about biologic and native at this point. It is that time.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:25

Kip, this time of year, right now, we're trying to get food plots planted. You're up there having fun fishing. It doesn't seem fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:31

No. No. I'm always amazed how late you guys put your food plots in. Not that I know anything about it much, but yeah, it's so depending on rain.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:40

Mm-hmm. Okay. It's in that 90 degrees.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:45

The river is I've seen it lower, but not much lower.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:49

It's we're dry right now, too, even though we had on the spring runs.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:52

Yeah. You know, I was with Kip one time and we were floating down this river landing. I'm trying to tell a little story here. And uh it was around the 4th of July, and these ladies came floating by and they were topless. Uh-oh. What? Yeah. And I and Jesse was in the boat with us. I couldn't you couldn't look. I couldn't know. I couldn't have to behave myself. I couldn't, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:18

I hope we leave this in the podcast because Jesse listens to everyone all the way.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:21

Yeah, it was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

Jesse looked at me and goes, We will never talk of this incident again. And I went, What do you mean?

SPEAKER_07 1:17:30

No. The podcast out with this story.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:34

Oh, it was uh it was the most awkward thing I've ever experienced. And you know, I've experienced a lot of awkward thing. You are you are very awkward.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:40

You used to I'm sorry, guys, I gotta run.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:42

All right, well, we enjoyed it. Well, guys, uh, look, this has been good. I it's a really unique fishery, and you know, we're blessed to have it. We need to we need to learn about it, know about it, and if get a chance, fish for them.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:55

Yeah, it sounds like a bucket list kind of trip to me. I'd I'd love to try it. And and really, just you know, it's a beautiful part of the country. It's a a a cool time of year to be up there. So, you know, you could probably go on a deer hunt and do that. Probably could.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:11

Very much so. Or duck hunt. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:14

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, Todd, thank you for joining us. Kip, uh, I've you're one of my favorite people. I've always enjoyed being around you. You're uh you're a lot of fun. And spending uh hours in a boat with you, um guys will be entertained and uh and learn something and if they'll if they'll pay attention. I was I'm not the best caster, but you've taught me a lot, and I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:37

You did well. Yeah, we did a great trip. Can't wait to do it again.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:43

Yeah, well, we're gonna do that. So all right, looking around the room, why don't you say goodbye, Dudley?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:48

Goodbye, Dudley. Get us out of here, Jack Sohn.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:52

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the Gamekeeper Podcast. And be sure to tune in again. Subscribe to Game Keeper Farming for Wildlife magazine, and don't miss the Montio Properties Fistful of Dirt podcast with my good buddy, Ronnie Cud Strickland.