Recipe for Greatness
Recipe for Greatness
From Corporate Comfort to Chocolate Innovation: Ella McKay's Journey with Fatso
Have you ever found yourself in the crossroads between a comfortable corporate job and the thrilling unknown of startup culture? That's where Ella McKay stood before she took the leap into the world of dark chocolate with her company, Fatso. Join us as Ella opens up about her transformative journey, from debating ice cream toppings to pioneering a brand that's captivating the dark chocolate market with its bold flavours and ethical sourcing.
In this episode, we unravel the threads of human connection that are woven into the fabric of business success. Ella illustrates the potent blend of creativity and strategy in product development, emphasising how relationships with everyone from cacao farmers to customers are more than simple transactions; they're partnerships that pulse at the heart of Fatso's ethos. We also delve into the landscape of entrepreneurship reshaped by the pandemic, revealing the surge of innovation and community support that has buoyed small businesses through challenging times.
Topping off our rich conversation, we get a taste of the future as Ella hints at tantalising new Fatso flavours and expansion plans that chocolate aficionados can look forward to. Our chat isn't just about the sweetness of chocolate; it's a reservoir of insights for the budding entrepreneur, steeped in the authenticity that defines Fatso's journey. Tune in and be inspired by the passion and drive that can transform a simple idea into a delectable reality.
3, 2, 1, 0, and liftoff, liftoff, no. Welcome to the Recipe for Greatness podcast. I'm your host, jay Greenwood, and today on the podcast we have Ella Mackay, the visionary co-founder of Fatso. Launched amidst the times of COVID, fatso has quickly shaken up the chocolate industry by injecting a hefty dose of fun and indulgence into dark chocolate. With their chunky ethical sauce bars packed with vibrant flavors, fatso is rewriting the rules on the dark chocolate, from the beginnings in corporate giants working in oral care to spearheading the quirky, bold initiatives at Fatso. Ella has a wealth of experience in branding, innovation and entrepreneurship. Ella, welcome to the podcast. Hi, thanks for having me, so I wanted to jump in and ask you about how sitting around a table talking about ice cream may be led into the idea and the foundations of Fatso.
Ella McKay:It's the art of procrastination, isn't it Not getting work done just chatting about ice cream? Yeah, I mean, it all started with you know a debate. Yeah, I mean, it all started with you know a debate. And I suppose the context is the three of us co-creators who are having this conversation are foodies, so the conversation is often dominated by food. And it was in the midst of lockdown. So obviously we weren't talking necessarily about the latest hottest restaurant or where you've eaten. It was about what you know, what you've eaten. It was about what you know, what you're doing at home, what you're cooking. Um, and yeah, we were talking about ice cream and, um, do you just have it on its own, a couple of scoops, or do you add stuff? And you know, lo and behold, of course you have to add stuff, uh, so it was like you know you nuts, you might add a bit of granola, you might add some honeycomb or crumb or whatever it might be, maybe some fruit just for good measure.
Ella McKay:And dark chocolate was something that we all kind of agreed is a really nice enhancer and something nice to shave on it something nice to shave on it. But that was kind of the only context that we ever really ate dark chocolate, because we couldn't find a bar of dark chocolate that really hit the spot if you were just having it on its own. So that's when it started to form this debate of well, why, why is that? Why is it always milk chocolate that gets all the like fun flavors and the weird and wonderful ingredients? And why is it that most people say, oh you, you know milk is best and you know dark is for older people, or dark is really boring, or dark is too bitter, or all that stuff? Because it's like, well, actually no, really good dark chocolate. Surely A it exists. It's kind of a bit better for you and would be delicious if it was treated in the same way that milk has been treated. So that's how it all started, and you know, the rest is history, as they say.
Jay Greenwood:So we're going to jump more into the formation of that sort of stuff. I wanted to then go a bit further back in time and talk about your career.
Jay Greenwood:So we started off at a big blue chip company and as you sort of follow your career, it's sort of slowly going smaller and smaller and smaller was there something maybe about your personality or sort of you sort of how you sort of like to work, that maybe you sort of found more comfort in sort of the smaller companies. Is that sort of how it sort of progressed until you eventually ended up I think it was sort of at the end was a soap startup.
Ella McKay:I think so sort of what sort of led you down that path um, well, well, I have to say the, the corporate start. You know I wouldn't, I wouldn't change for the world. Um, it's an amazing uh play, you know, especially when you're sort of fresh out of university or school or whatever. It gives you so much grounding and training. You know, I use that stuff I learned way back then in those big blue chip companies every day, even now, um, but I always laugh that in all these companies I work for and you're quite right, I went sort of a bit smaller and bit smaller over time, um, that I was always became kind of the a little bit of the problem child.
Ella McKay:To be clear, I was never, I was never fired from a job or anything like that, but I always was looking at okay, well, how can we do something, how can we do that a bit differently, or is that the best way of doing that, or could we not be a bit more creative? And then, obviously, as you can imagine, in a big corporate you might get an idea, some like a little bit of a way. But, um, as a junior, who you know doesn't really know much, um, at the time you're sort of like oh no, well, this is the way we do it and that's, that's just the format and that's how we work. And you know you've got stage gates here and so so, um, I think I always had that entrepreneurial spirit in me and I brought that into every job, even from the very beginning, which I think in some ways was was great and um, it meant that I got so much out of those roles and jobs and and, uh, learned loads from other people as well, because I was wanting to talk to them and, um, bring out my ideas, and I sort of had that uh confidence, I suppose, to challenge some of the ways things were being done.
Ella McKay:Um, but over time I made it, you know, became quite clear that actually some of those ideas are easier to test in a smaller business than they are in a bigger business. Um, so that was the sort of um I think it must. It's always been in my blood. My mum's run her own businesses, will be in very different sectors, um, so, yeah, I think it was probably always destined for me that I would thrive a bit more in something where I could, you know, test ideas and test fail, test fail, you know, test win, which you have less. You don't have less of an ability to do in a big environment.
Jay Greenwood:That's really nice to hear because I think it's so easy these days for a lot of people to bash big companies, saying you know, it's not not worthwhile and stuff. And we had uh mark from wahaka on the other week and he basically said how, for how formative is he is working the corporate world, so lay those foundations. I think these days people are too quick to say, oh, what a waste of time, do this, do that, but I think there's a lot of value in it still there's huge value in it, and I think, um, it also shows you the things that you know you don't want to do in your small business.
Ella McKay:You know the things where, if you don't, if you haven't seen both sides of the coin, you don't necessarily know what, what's needed and what's not, um, and I think that's a really interesting thing.
Jay Greenwood:I mean, I have to say, though, I've been out of that corporate game for quite a while, so, as much as I remember things, things are probably also done quite differently now as well, so, uh, yeah, and when you sort of start thinking about chocolate and stuff, was it always, um, looking straight into dark chocolate or was it sort of evaluating the chocolate landscape and seeing that the dark chocolate was a really underserved market? How did you sort of approach, thinking about the opportunity?
Ella McKay:That's sort of where the big business comes in, I guess, is that, yes, we did look. You know, we had a hunch and we like going on a hunch, um, and we like to run our business on instinct and gut and great ideas and all that stuff, um, but yes, we also know the value of doing a bit of due diligence. So, um, I spent, uh, and I should just say, when we started it, it was very much a side hustle to our day jobs. You know, this was something we would do in the evenings or weekends, um, but I did spend quite a lot of time looking and understanding the category um, at large.
Ella McKay:Uh, what was really interesting at the time and this is going back at, yeah, 2020, sort of 2020, mid-2021 at the time, dark chocolate was actually the thing that was driving the growth in premium chocolate, and premium chocolate was the thing that was driving the growth of chocolate as a whole. So we knew that, um, and a lot of that was more to do with a health and wellness movement more than anything else, um, but so that was kind of interesting in and of itself, but then it became very clear that it was a very I mean, my personal opinion is that the category as a whole in chocolate is all very. You know, there was no one to my knowledge, there was no one doing like dark first, like we are a dark chocolate brand first and everything else second. I might be wrong on that. I've never actually tested. Don't hold me to that.
Ella McKay:I didn't find one.
Jay Greenwood:I can back you up from my experience of walking down the aisles of a supermarket that you know it's very uninspiring the dark chocolate section, so I can back that up. So one element of uh, training a chocolate brand is finding a chocolate supplier. And we mentioned at the start, you know, ethic, ethical sourcing is a big key part of you guys. So how did um I think it's luca the, the family co-op in columbia how did you find them and how was it getting that relationship to work? Because I imagine maybe they have quite a few people approach them. How do you sort of sell you as someone to work with?
Ella McKay:Well, actually I have to say I couldn't say it was a hard sell, because they're just the most wonderful people who, at the very heart of their business, is also philanthropy and making and you know, making the chocolate industry better basically. So anybody that comes along and says we've got this idea for a chocolate brand, we want to source the very best quality and taste, but also with absolutely no compromise on ethics and supply chain corruption and all that stuff, and they were like like, yes, we can help, you know, uh, so so then it was became more of them just sort of telling me everything that they knew and all of their ambitions, um, which it just was like total gut instinct to say, god, we, I want to be part of that, we want to be part of that. What a brilliant dimension to this brand idea, which is all really about putting the fun back into dark chocolate and let's stop being so serious. It's like life's serious enough. We don't have to make chocolate serious, in whatever colour the chocolate is. But if we can underpin that with this beautiful ethical story or journey on transforming the chocolate industry, then why wouldn't we? The relationship build was very easy because we share fundamental values. It's like when a relationship works. It works because, underneath it all, you share the same values with the friend or the partner that you you end up choosing. I mean, that's slightly tenuous and you know comparison, but it's true, you know, it's all about relationship building. So, um, so they, they were amazing, they're extremely supportive. Obviously they knew we were tiny. Well, we didn't even have a product yet, um, and they, they do supply some bigger customers. They have grown, but actually they've grown quite a lot even in the time that we've been working with them.
Ella McKay:I think the other thing is because we made a conscious decision to go to a south american we wanted to source from south america, which is where which is the origin of cacao. The amazon rainforest is where cacao was originally founded back in the Aztec era, kind of thing. That narrowed it down because obviously it's a very small proportion of actually cacao export. Africa is the dominant for various reasons and we just didn't want to touch that. We knew that that was complicated and I do applaud brands like Tony's who are going in there and they're going for it, uh, and trying to to solve the problem in the place. That it where the problem sort of exists. But for us it was less about um, fixing a problem, it was. It was actually well, let's not, let's not contribute to the. We didn't want to contribute or be an extra person in that in that problem there's there's enough. There's enough brands and businesses that that are doing that and trying to be better. But yeah, we avoided that and sorry, I've gone off on a tangent.
Jay Greenwood:Anyway, but yes the relationship wasn't a difficult one to build because of our values I heard you say as well that the chocolate industry is extremely corrupt and it's maybe something you know as a consumer. It's just at the back of your minds because it's you know, it's in every shop. But sort of maybe just elaborate a little bit more on what that corruption is, maybe an example and you know if you have any at all yeah, I mean it is, um, it stems back.
Ella McKay:So I mean this is my, my date, my exact dates and things, and I'm sure there's lots of debates around the exact history of these things, but but I believe it was in the early 1800s when a European traveler, traveling through South America, discovered the cacao bean and discovered how much cacao was a big part of South American culture, was a. Uh, how much cacao was a big part of south american culture. Um, the south american that well, the people, the amazon peoples, actually considered it as like the. They, they founded it and promoted it as the food of the gods, because it's, you know, and they, they didn't have it necessarily in the same way as we have it, they didn't have the techniques necessarily to ferment it and to do, to do everything that they do to make it chocolate, but they were eating the fruit and it was delicious and sweet and all the things. Um, you know it was, it was a joy to their palates from their probably very bland diets. Um, and so this european, you know, so then it became very part of South American culture. This European found it, learned and understood about the plant and decided to take it to one of the Portuguese African colonies, and I can't remember exactly which one, but I could find it. But anyway, um, it was an island, I think, um small island, and planted it in in africa, kind of just thinking well, it's not a dissimilar climate, we can kind of recreate that, let's see if it grows which obviously it did. Um, and cacao, just, uh, well, and so they grew up, they planted a plantation, then exported, started to export it, and then that's when you've got your Swiss and your you know, this is where your Belgian, all the like, you know, masters of chocolate then got hold of it and started to turn it into this beautiful thing that we now consider chocolate, and it's like part of our day-to-day lives.
Ella McKay:Um, but the problem is, is it just, uh, the demand from europe? Grew and grew and grew and grew? Uh, and western society, and, um, it was obviously very it's like they'd found in their various colonies a way to make it very, very cheap to grow and then export, and then basically it just took over. There was basically no other industry in these African countries other than cacao plantations, but that meant that they were totally beholden to all these European buyers who could drive the price down because, you know the competition was fierce and they basically set, you know the West set the price.
Ella McKay:And that's when you know you get things like well, if I'm only getting paid as a farmer $1 a day which I think is now this still happens $1 a day or something, think is now this, this still happens one dollar a day or something for my farm, I can't afford to pay workers, so I bring in children and that's what promotes. That's when you know you get issues of child slave labor, which is obviously a huge, which is a huge issue in um, in Africa. So I mean, god we'd be here all day, you'd have to do a whole podcast on the whole thing. But I mean that's sort of the history which was basically, you know, europeans took it to a, the West took it to a, planted it in Africa and basically used a slave trade to enable them to to explode that as an industry and then exploit it and use it and, and you know, enjoy it, but at the cost of these people's livelihoods and and no one knows that or really sees it.
Ella McKay:Well, I mean, they do know it and that's probably not fair, but I don't think people know where else to look and I don't think many people know that. It's not. It didn't originate there. You know it. Cacao isn't wasn't meant to be grown in africa. It's not actually the right environment. In fact, if you look at a cacao bean grown in some of the African countries, they're like half the size of a bean in South America. That's really interesting.
Jay Greenwood:Well, thank you so much for sharing the history of that. Like I say, it's important to understand the origin and how that affects today. So thank you for taking time to share that. So, um, how did you know sort of we've got the idea, we now have a supplier. How does the first sort of how do we start on this idea? How do we is it just like you guys making supplies in the kitchen? How does the the idea start to actually take formation into these beautiful, huge, chunky chocolate bars?
Ella McKay:um. So we had, so, yeah, the idea. We found the chocolate, um, and then we actually started by tasting um, lots of different types of chocolate. How dark did we want to go? You know what the different, so many different flavor profiles chocolate can is a little bit like wine in a way. You know you've got every. It's not just about 70, 60, it's all about how the chocolate has been the recipe, I guess, to get different profiles.
Ella McKay:So we started there just to understand a bit more and get our palates accustomed to that. And then we had all these ideas for fun flavors. So through Luca we found a small family run company, company of chocolate makers basically, that work with brands like ours and they're masters of chocolate, they've been in the industry for decades. And we asked them you know, will you help us create this vision? So we gave them our ideas for our recipes and our flavors and they tried our flavors in different types of chocolate and different, so they would make them. And then we would then all gather around a table and basically go on a crazy sugar high because we would. I mean I kid you not, I mean what we've got.
Ella McKay:We've got four flavors currently in the range. I think we had a good seven that we had ideas of at the very beginning, and of each of those seven I think we did at least three different types of chocolate combos with those flavors. So you can imagine the first tasting session was. I mean, it was amazing, but my goodness, it was intense and that was anything from like a 60% all the way to, you know, an 80%, you know. So you were really. I mean it was like having 39 cups of coffee on a on a Monday morning um, it was fun.
Jay Greenwood:You spoke then about sort of doing the, the testing, and it was all sitting together and I heard you speak a lot about the importance of human connection and when it comes into the development of a product. So what do you mean by that and where has that like insight or experience come from over your time?
Ella McKay:businesses, like businesses, are built on building relationships, talking to other people, um, and basically learning from everyone and everything. I, no, no single brand or business has ever been built on anything other than, or no successful brand or business has ever been built on anything other than, to my mind, collaboration, a force of different people, different skill sets, knowledge sets, experiences, um, you know, I've not run a, I've not run a chocolate brand before. I just was very good at eating it, um, and I don't know everything at all, like I'm, so I I learned something new about this industry every single day. And, um, for us, when and because, you know we haven't been fortunate, you know we haven't gone and built our own factory yet, um and um, done it all ourselves. You know, I'm not a chocolate chef, sadly, yet again. Um, so it was absolutely imperative that everybody we worked with and we surround ourselves with, they understood our vision and they wanted to be part of it.
Ella McKay:You know, I don't see, I hate, I actually hate the word supplier, because I'm never looking for a supplier, I'm looking for a partner always, and that spans from the people that we source our chocolate, the cacao, from, to the people that we make the chocolate with to the people that we buy the boxes from, that ship out all our orders.
Ella McKay:That's so important to me and, yeah, so I will always choose to work with people, whether they're coming in as a full-time employee or or coming to to help us source something or whatever um, knowing the humans behind them, um, and and spending time with them. It is so important. And then that does span into our customers. So you know, you say about stockists and how how are we gonna know how we're doing as a brand if we're not having a relationship with our retailers or hotels or whatever, to tell us how it's going and what people think and what people say? And you know, sometimes you have to take the the bad feedback with good as well, and I really encourage everyone we work with to be really honest with us, because I think that's really important too. Otherwise, we're just naively thinking we're brilliant all the time, which we're not because we're human. Does that answer your question?
Jay Greenwood:Yeah, yeah, something you said there as well reminded me I was listening to or watching something about the uh, disneyland and how it's formed and, um, I think it was walt.
Ella McKay:Disney basically said how he used to because you mentioned about not, it's not suppliers, it's partners, and he basically you know, um, they weren't customers, they were guests and they didn't have crowds, they had audiences, and it's all just reframing how you think about those people that you're interacting with daily exactly, and I don't know if that's sort of the thing that you do lose as you get bigger and as you go more, you know, as the corporate kind of itch comes in, I guess, um, or the corporate hand, uh, and I really want to hold on to that as long as we can covid seems also a really pivotal moment for you that sort of sparked the entrepreneurial journey.
Jay Greenwood:So what, what, what happened and why did it make you begin? I guess I'm curious to think do you think you'd be where you are now with that so if COVID didn't happen? Or do you think things would be different? Like interested just reflecting on, because I guess the way I'm thinking about it is, it's funny how things at the time can seem really bad but yet sort of they actually make you know something positive comes out of it.
Ella McKay:Yeah, I mean for me, and I was really fortunate that COVID for us, you know, wasn't what it was for. So so many, you know we were I wasn't, you know, we weren't on our own. We have outdoor space, you know, you know all the things. We had so many luxuries that a lot, a lot, a lot of people didn't have. So I'm so fortunate for that and we and we are the you know, as a business, I think, uh, as a team of people, um, would it have happened? Would it have happened? Would it be there the idea? I think probably might have happened, because by very nature we are entrepreneurial and, you know, always sparking ideas would we have gone? Let's do it and then gone, let's not just do it as a side hustle, let's actually make it happen so that Ella can go and really do this as a full-time thing. Who knows, I I'm always, you know, I like to think about ghost ships, but you know they're not real. Um, what I would say COVID did for us was it actually gave it. If it weirdly gave time, because you know you weren't putting a social life in or a commute in or whatever around your working life, it was we actually had the time to side hustle and it didn't feel like a chore, it was fun and it was something else to do and it was a different way of using the mind. So, um, I think it just gave a pause in our lives that allowed us to go no, let's really try and do, let's do this. Um, and it was exciting. Um, well, the fact I think and I'll tell you what, the other thing I think Covid has done which possibly this wouldn't have happened without Covid was the big rally for supporting independent businesses and female-founded businesses. Um, I don't think if that was just Covid. I think some of that movement also came with the sort of Black Lives Matter, um campaigning as well and um more conversation around you know, equality and stamping out prejudisms and things like that.
Ella McKay:Um, but yeah, I think that the the flying the flag for small businesses. I don't know if that would have happened if people hadn't been disrupted and stopped in their tracks to actually think about this stuff and think about, well, these are the, these small businesses that we don't think, we don't think about. They're gonna die if we don't support them, and many did, unfortunately. So I think that's been amazing people. People are so wonderfully supportive. I mean, I get you know, we get emails often just from customers that have ordered online, just congratulating us or saying how much they love it. Or you know, some people framing, framing our packs and putting them on their walls like it's so lovely, and I hope that maybe there was always that out there, but I'm not sure. I think independent is uh has become much more of a on-trend thing to think about than it had done before, and I do think COVID has a lot to thank for that.
Jay Greenwood:You have a lot of suppliers, which we call partners, and they're all around the country and are they people that you're knocking on the door saying suppliers, or are they coming to you? How have you built those relationships? Because you have a lot of different independents all around the country. So just curious how you sort of scale that up to sort of numbers that you have um with a lot of hard work.
Ella McKay:Uh, yes, we um have a lot of wonderful independent stockists. I think we have, I think about 200, we have over 200 now.
Jay Greenwood:So I was thinking because it I was going to say I was thinking because I know that's without even wholesalers. So you, you build it. So I'm thinking that's, you know, is that just outdoors. Yeah, that's, yeah, so yeah, that's us finding.
Ella McKay:I mean, we've um, we've hired, we've got um a lovely little team now. So, um, you know that they're always on the hunt. I mean, every as far as I can, I'm concerned. Every time we hire someone, everybody's a salesperson. You know, even if that's not their day-to-day, everyone should be looking out. We know.
Ella McKay:Oh, where did you go this weekend? Did you see a nice little potential shop? Yes, it is knocking on doors. It's reaching out on Instagram, looking on doors. It's reaching out on instagram. It's um, it's just hopping in, as I say, at the weekends when you happen to be somewhere and you think that's nice and oh, they don't stalk us or they don't have any chocolate, but they definitely could. So, um, yeah, it's. It's been very much like organic and us actively finding. But when you get, the bigger you get, the more people then start coming to you. So we do get people that are coming to us.
Ella McKay:We've also used things like FAIR, which is a marketplace which I'd recommend to any independent or new brand, even from startup. It doesn't cost anything to be listed on fair, but it's great. If you're thinking about um, a get more giftable lifestyle business, the way they work is they? Uh, they're a marketplace for smaller companies. Smaller businesses, um, retailers who will buy from different they're looking for like independent brands basically. So you're kind of in a you've got a captive audience there and then they take a commission. You can either invite customers and then they don't get a commission, or you can they'll sort of find you customers and they'll take a commission, but they cover all the shipping and things like that. So that's really good.
Ella McKay:So, so there's like different things that we've done in those spaces, but, um, yeah, again, we do work with a couple of wholesalers and that's been great too and it means that we see fatso in all sorts of places that we didn't, we didn't get, and we're like, oh, that's exciting, we're in that shop and, um, and you know, we have to build relationships with those wholesalers as well so that they're representing, by extension, us as a brand. But we do feel further away from the consumer then, um, and whilst they're totally necessary because you'd, you know, I'd have to build a very, very big sales team to be able to not use wholesalers um, but I think there is nothing more wonderful than having a chat in person or on the phone with the founder of a, a deli or a cafe or whatever, and talking about how business is for them. You know what's their customer like, what is their customer not like. You know all that sort of stuff I completely agree.
Jay Greenwood:I wanted to touch on a story as well which sort of relates, I guess, to sort of sales and marketing about. I think the example that I heard you speak about was an influencer that had like two million followers and then it was also later on the conversation but contrasting it to a really um, I think it was independent store up north I want to see Aberdeen, but I could be getting that wrong where they have a really like cult following and just the contrast of what that experience was like. We're working with someone who supposedly has a huge audience versus someone who has, like a really dedicated, loyal audience and how that sort of influenced sort of the sales yeah, I mean it's amazing and I think, um, something that's really changed is um consumer response to influencers.
Ella McKay:I think there is absolute, I think influencer pr, marketing pr there's totally a role for it and I kind of love it in so many ways because there's a much more human, like we were talking about that human connection. It's a much more human connection that you're bringing into your brand. You know you're getting a human to say this is great or I love this. I think the challenge that that kind um comms is bringing, especially for brands like ours, is that more and more influencers make you know because they, I guess they need to make a living, so they're charging, um and uh. I just don't think consumers are that stupid like they're not necessarily just going to go out and buy it because that influencer told them to. If they know they've been paid to tell them that. Um, it's a bit like everyone knows a tv ad. It's like, oh, actually that looks really good. I I can see the need, the need for that product in my life, but I'm under no illusion that that might not be the absolute best of the best just because you've put it on a TV ad. So I don't, out of principle, we don't pay for any. I mean, we gift products but, yeah, we wouldn't pay for influence marketing.
Ella McKay:And yes, that example that you referenced the very beginning, when we first launched, we were having a conversation with someone who happened to be an absolutely wonderful woman we were talking about. She sort of was on her own entrepreneurial journey. She had two point something million followers and, um, we gave her some. We gave her a bar of morning glory, which she loves, and she posted it on. I still remember it was like a sun, it was a sunday, and I was at my parents house and I was like, oh, my god, she's, she's posted about.
Ella McKay:I was like, oh, my god, brace yourselves, do we have enough stock? You know, the product's gonna fly off the shelves. We're gonna gain all these followers. And I got really excited because obviously the reach was huge. Um, and I think we had like two orders maybe as a follow through on that and maybe gained about 50 followers. If that, I was like, oh, because you know, and she's great and she's got a great following, but people weren't necessarily engaging with what she was or particularly about. They didn't necessarily care what chocolate she was eating. They probably cared about the other things that she was doing, definitely had some other amazing influencers or little businesses or whatever who have picked us up, talked about us really organically and authentically. They've got a really engaged audience, but maybe they only have 20,000 followers and we've seen a genuine impact of that.
Jay Greenwood:So that's why I love, really I think authenticity is king in any kind of comms exercise, uh, and I think that's not as easy to do as you'd think yeah, I completely agree and I think the example that I was giving I think you referenced the store that you gave sending them, I think, 10 boxes of like the bars or something, and then within one weekend it was just all completely sold because they just they're they're actually believing in it authentically, saying like this is great chocolate, buy it and people trust it, whereas, like you say, I think that's sort of like the slow death of the. You know, when we used to run a pop-up restaurant, we used to have people come, let's just being like, oh, you know, free food, or like, pay us to come. You'd be like I'm not interested really in that.
Ella McKay:So yeah, you're totally right. It was the wonderful bandit bakery who uh in aberdeen and they were. They were one of our first customers and they're super cool. They've clearly got the most loyal customer base going and and they're. You know they're bakers, first of all. You know they sell beautiful, delicious bread, um, but a lot of chocolate.
Jay Greenwood:It would seem a lot of our chocolate, so it's very cool, yeah and I wanted to finish on a few quick fire questions before I jump into my final question. So, uh, I know you uh grew up in london. You're still in and around london, so I wanted to wonder what's your favorite restaurant in london?
Ella McKay:ballo, I think would probably be my current pick.
Jay Greenwood:Nice.
Ella McKay:Especias. At the moment, their venison tartare sorry for the vegans among you is just out of this world and I can't have it at the moment because I'm currently growing a human and it's frowned upon to eat venison tartare. But I just love, just I love it, and the atmosphere is really fun. It's not pretentious, but the food is always so delicious.
Jay Greenwood:Yeah, I went there for the lunch menu recently and it's very well priced for a good meal as well, so favourite place to drink.
Ella McKay:Oh, I'm not really drinking at the moment either.
Jay Greenwood:Yeah, I've really, really not nailed these questions, have I?
Ella McKay:We have a really wonderful local pub called the Crown, so we love going there. It's great in the winter and the summer. Nice garden, all that kind of good stuff.
Jay Greenwood:And burgers versus pizza. Do you have a favourite? And then, which one of those do you have a favorite? And then, if you, which one of those do you have like a favorite place to go to at all?
Ella McKay:pizza and I'd probably say I'll go to is um pizza pilgrims ah, yes um, they're very, I mean. I just I mean, aside the yummy pizza, their story's great, it's a great brand like. It's always like the restaurants are always super cool. They kind of they feel like they've got proper fancy vibe.
Jay Greenwood:You know about them yeah, we had tom on the podcast from pizza pilgrims. He's a brilliant guy and a brilliant story, so, um, amazing. Well, I want to finish on one final question, which is sort of about the future of fat. So anything you're working on, anything you can tell us, or sort of where you sort of about the future of fat, so anything you're working on, anything you can tell us or sort of what way you sort of see going in the next like couple of years.
Ella McKay:So many things, um. So I don't want to reveal too much because that would take, you know, the fun out of it. But, um, I, we've got lots of wonderful flavors. In fact, we do have a. I don't know when this is going live, but we do have a new flavor coming imminently and all I can tell you it is full of love, it's very sexy, okay, um, and that will be coming out around sort of world chocolate day, which is july, surprisingly, um. So, yeah, watch out for that.
Ella McKay:And then the ambition for fatso really is to just go way beyond chocolate bars, like we've got lots of fun snack snack plans, um, all anchored in dark chocolate, but, uh, just showing how much dark chocolate can be.
Ella McKay:Just this amazing, brilliant, wonderful thing, despite the fact I know that the price of chocolate is going up and everyone's very obsessed about that, but please don't, please don't, turn your back on chocolate. It's actually not a bad thing that we're paying a bit more, because we should have always been paying a bit more. The price of chocolate actually hasn't gone up. So, even though you probably heard, but the price of cacao has gone up like 80 or something in the last 12 months, so it has been really tough, but before that hadn't really risen in like 15 years and you kind of got to think about that. So, um, just I, I guess I could say, when you're buying a bar of chocolate, just think about, even if it's a little bit more to you think about, or hopefully, especially when you buy ours sorry, shameless plug, but know that that increase is going back to our farmers, um, not to an already wealthy middleman promise well, if you won't do the shameful plug, I'll do it for you.
Jay Greenwood:But how wonderful it's absolutely amazing. Um taste it. It's brilliant and it is, you know, as it describes. You know, it's like like a nice packed flavor soon bar and you pick it up and it's like big chunks, it's everything you want to enjoy. So, yeah, it's wonderful.
Ella McKay:So, uh, people can buy it online, that's correct, and then also they can go and see where you're, where you're listed exactly, yeah, come online, buy direct from us, or you can put your postcode into the stockist um map and it will tell you and there are some stockists in. You know, if you're listening from beyond the uk, that we've got some stockists in parts of europe, in the us um canada I think, even aust Australia. We've found ourselves in places. So there you go.
Jay Greenwood:I never thought I'd actually be tempted to eat chocolate like 10am in the morning, but I'm actually getting that sort of feeling oh, you come and.
Ella McKay:Come and work with us for a week, jay, you'll see amazing.
Jay Greenwood:Well, ella, thank you so much for coming on podcast. It's been such a fun conversation and, like I say, I think it's such a fun conversation and, like I say, I think it's such a great mission one because of what it stands behind. And also, too, I think dark chocolate is just such an underserved market and I think it's so great to see sort of the innovation you create over the next few years.
Jay Greenwood:So very much looking forward to that thanks so much, jay, nice to chat as always, guys, thank you so much for listening, really appreciate the support and if you guys like it and you're enjoying what you're listening to, please like and subscribe and write a review. We'd really appreciate it again. We'll be back doing this weekly and, yeah, if you want to know more about starting a food business, head to wwwjgreenwoodcom. But, guys, as always, thank you and be great.