Recipe for Greatness
Recipe for Greatness
Crafting a Bean Revolution: Amelia Christie-Miller’s Journey With Bold Bean Co
Ever wondered how a simple bean can transform the food industry? Join us as Amelia Christie-Miller, the innovative force behind Bold Bean Co, shares her extraordinary journey from a food-loving childhood to becoming a notable entrepreneur in the UK. Gain insights into how Amelia's experiences in Spain ignited her passion for beans, leading to her entrepreneurial success and the presence of her products on the shelves of major retailers like Waitrose, Sainsbury's, and M&S. Amelia's story is an inspiring testament to how dedication to sustainability and flavour can redefine a market, and how she leveraged community engagement and data-driven insights to forge genuine connections with consumers.
Explore Amelia's strategic shift from a direct-to-consumer model to entering the retail space during the COVID-19 pandemic. Understand her proactive engagement strategies with supermarket buyers and how she navigated the complexities of the grocery marketplace. Amelia highlights the significance of "brand servicing" over "brand selling," emphasising the importance of authentic interactions with consumers. Through her story, you'll discover the intricacies and excitement of the supermarket landscape, offering valuable lessons for anyone enthusiastic about food and entrepreneurship.
Amelia also delves into the entrepreneurial mindset, the importance of having a co-founder, and the rewarding challenges of building a brand with integrity. Learn about her growth-oriented approach, how past experiences shaped her business acumen, and why focusing on quality ingredients is crucial. Uncover the behind-the-scenes efforts that brought Bold Bean Co to life and the power of a growth mindset. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or a food enthusiast, this episode offers a delicious blend of inspiration and practical advice for crafting a successful food business.
Three, two, one, zero and liftoff, liftoff, liftoff. Hello and welcome to the Recipe for Greatness podcast. I'm your host, jake Inwood, and in this podcast we interview the founders behind some of the best food and drink and leisure brands in the UK to find out how they got to where they are. Today's guest is Emilia Christie Miller, the visionary founder of the Bold Bean Co. Today's guest is Emilia Christy Miller, the visionary founder of the Bold Bean Co. Emilia's entrepreneurial journey began with an experience in Spain that ignited her passion for beans, propelling her to revolutionize how we perceive and consume this humble food. With a commitment to sustainability and flavor, bold Bean Co was born. Emilia's efforts have garnered her Young Entrepreneur Awards, further validating her innovative approach. Her products, beloved by chefs and foodies alike, are now staples on the shelves of major UK retailers like Waitrose, sainsbury's and M&S.
Jay Greenwood:Amelia, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. So I wanted to jump in and start about where did your love for food come from, because your background you know there's. There's a sort of chef career. When did it sort of get introduced to you and sort of how did you sort of start thinking about that as maybe a career?
Amelia Christie-Miller:um, I was a bit of a chubby kid. All of my favorite books when I was a kid were all food related. It was like chocolate island, the porridge pot, just food obsessed. And I I think that I knew I wanted to work in food, but I realized I didn't want to be a chef. I think I found both my aunts were chefs and I think I I was nervous about that approach because I saw how hard it was, particularly for women. And then I was fortunate enough to have my eyes opened by. I did some work experience at a food foundation and that kind of helped me see that you can work in food and not be cooking the whole time but still get the benefits and be able to live through the passion of working in the food industry. So then I was like, right, that's it, like I'm going to work in food but not as a chef, which I think a lot of particularly young people don't really know is an option. Well, at least I didn't until I looked into it.
Jay Greenwood:And you discovered beans and I heard you say that people sort of started thinking you were becoming a bit weird because all you were talking about was beans. So I'm curious like when did the sort of like spark of the bean come in? I'm curious about when was that signal that you thought actually there's a business opportunity in this, rather than just being like oh, beans are amazing.
Amelia Christie-Miller:I think it was because I was working in food tech at the time and I had seen I had so much faith that food tech was going to transform the food system and tech was where it was at and you know, crypto was huge and all of that. And then what happened was, alongside I was seeing the boom of a brand like Oatly. So I think it was kind of coincided with my, my understanding of just how influential brands could be and just how powerful they could be. Um, and then also looking into the data, and I went into the British Library which you can do for free and just look at the data and see that it's all very slowly. This is just before covid, that beans and pulses were kind of growing and it was very quietly growing. But I was like that's enough for me because I I needed that data to back up my passion and love, because it makes you have the confidence to to go out there and be like I'm not completely deranged and obsessed. I'm. I've actually got a belief that it could work as well.
Jay Greenwood:That's one thing that really stood out to me, actually, when I was researching, was the fact that the British Library is a resource. So what did you go there to look at and what, like you say, was it just like looking at trends in the food industry? That kind of then led you down that route.
Amelia Christie-Miller:Yeah, it's amazing. So you can go in and you have access to all of the mintel reports, which are really interesting. They kind of cover a lot of like wider themes. Um, they'll often look at categories in particular. Um, and then you also have the euromonitor reports and all of them just show like the euromonitor is generally like beans as a category, but then the mintel reports will share a lot of like detail around. Oh, um, you know this certain consumer group of having a peak in interest in Mexican cooking or whatever it may be, and all of those resources can like build up a sort of a bit of an understanding. And also, I think everyone knows that data you need in. You know everything from investment pitches to retailer meetings.
Jay Greenwood:So it also helps add some weight to your deck and I think that sort of combination combined with one thing that just really stood out was the fact of like it was so community driven. So how important was it for the start of like the Bold Bean Co building that community? And was that, I guess, an intentional thought, or were you still kind of feeling out whether or not this was a business opportunity?
Amelia Christie-Miller:it was an intentional thought. I did a course um, like it was a one-off course about product market fit, um, maybe a year before I started working on the business, and it was all they called out this brand called outside outdoor voices in the states and it's kind of like a, a kind of lululemon sort of thing. Um, and what they did is they used this example of this woman who had this running group and it was a group of female runners who were really kind of they were runners but they weren't athletes and they felt very sort of alienated by Nike and Adidas and all of the messaging around like performance, and they're like I don't want to perform, I just want to go for a nice run. And she built her product range for this running community. So she built a product range around a community and I just loved that idea.
Amelia Christie-Miller:So I suppose I tried to create that through, even though I knew that I wanted to do something in beans. But I tried to create a community to help build a product around a community and help them advise, because I loved the idea of them being your kind of real life kind of consumer research that are kind of feeding into the product, the brand and what you're doing. So I tried to mimic that and I loved it, mainly because it didn't feel as lonely because when you're starting out it's really lonely, but also making decisions feels really intense and overwhelming, and having other people to help who you don't know is.
Jay Greenwood:I think it's really supportive and it it just helps you be more decisive and how long did you spend sort of building that community before you actually had a physical product? Because it just seems so obvious to me that's the route like every entrepreneur should take building that community, because I guess it's slower but then it's so you can run faster, sort of when there's products out. But how long did you spend doing that community building before you had a product? And then also maybe reflecting back, is there anything you wish you had done that you didn't do at that time?
Amelia Christie-Miller:I have so. So we probably started, uh, a year before the product range launched, I started, started the Instagram, and I say community, it was literally just an Instagram, but I think nowadays, with Substack, with all these different kind of mediums to build communities, it could be anywhere and I think what I probably would have done differently in hindsight is got better at I don't know Instagram reels and TikToks, because that was obviously you know, it was enough for me to be talking to camera. I found myself so cringe, so cringe that I actually hid. I only said I added everyone that followed to a close friends group because I saw, like some random person that went to school with me started following and I was like, oh, I don't want them to see me being really cringe. So it was enough, I'm so much, too much of a millennial. I was like, oh God, I'm so cringe.
Amelia Christie-Miller:And I am still cringe and I do get mocked. You know, when I see friends who, who I haven't seen in ages at a wedding, they're like, oh, you're being really cringe on LinkedIn and Instagram, I'm like, yeah, I am, but I own it now. But then I was, you know, I was insecure and I, you know, you still are. But I think that next level, if I'd had the bravery to break through and just create that video content, you know I could be, I could, I could be Grace Beverly right now.
Jay Greenwood:I think it's so funny because I have the same problem and it's interesting because everyone like mocks it until eventually gets to a certain level when everyone's like, oh, that's really good, like I should do something like that. So it's just interesting that people have that point of view, quite. British thing as well. Once you have the idea, you kind of know what you want to do. How do you then go to right? I need an actual product, like what was your route to actually getting something that you could actually physically sell to someone?
Amelia Christie-Miller:So I think what happened was, you know, about a year and a half before launching Bold Bean bean, I had the realization that I wanted to do something in beans, but I didn't know, at least for the first month or two, that it would be our, you know our core range of, you know, beautiful, jarred beans.
Amelia Christie-Miller:I thought, okay, actually, what's the most straightforward way to make people love beans? Let let's put beans in a sauce. I was actually thinking at the time let's put British beans, such as a carlin pea, because it's grown on British soil, in a sauce and make it, you know, a ready meal really easy for people to eat. People know what they're doing. And then, as soon as I kind of dug a bit further, I realized you know my own experience of, you know, changing my perception of beans actually came from tasting a really beautiful bean ingredient and also I come from a tech background and there's that whole idea of, like, the minimum viable product and I think that starting with a pure ingredient as a bean brand is also kind of the version of a minimum viable product. So then I quickly decided that I wanted it to be quite simple just really high quality beans, cooked really well, and you think. Simple means easy, but sadly it actually just brings a whole host of complexity and effort to try and like deduce which butter bean skin is slightly thinner than another one and which cooking time and all of those Um, but it was.
Amelia Christie-Miller:It was then as simple as just reaching out to as many you know use going on Google and working out where um beans were being produced and where I could get samples. And I was looking specifically for um this creamy butter bean that I had had, which is our queen butter bean, and that was a. That was kind of. I was laser focused on that product to begin with and then building the rest around that, finding the best chickpea etc. And just got loads of samples, tasted them all, didn't want additives in the products and then trying to find a recipe without additives and when based on flavor.
Amelia Christie-Miller:So I think that getting getting kind of samples is it's it's an effort and that's something which can cost a lot, particularly depending on you know who you're working with. But because our actual product was quite simple, it was just a really high quality product, cooked quite simply. It wasn't as kind of complicated as you know a sparkling drink with an extract and a bit of X and Y. You know, it's just beautiful ingredients, which is partly why a lot of people said why are you going into plain ingredients? That sounds like a terrible business idea, but I think quickly people have realized that actually if you put loads of care and love into simple ingredients, it can be a brilliant business as well. Um, so then it just, yeah, came down to choosing the best um supplier and when did you first sell the product?
Jay Greenwood:was it to uh like online? Was it trying to go straight to a retailer?
Amelia Christie-Miller:what was the first route for you like to actually get something sold and someone actually buy it so I first of all had opened pre-orders on my website, so my community that I built on Instagram started placing pre-orders maybe two months earlier, um, which was really nice. Um, and I got Planet Organic upon launch. That was kind of what I focused the launch around and, to be honest, that was just such a fluke. I think that was the first and last time I've been able to get hold of the Planet Organic buyer and I've tried so hard to speak to her since and I don't think I appreciated how lucky I was to speak to her in that moment and her to just say, yes, and we're going to put you on display.
Amelia Christie-Miller:But that was just gold for me and um, we launched in plant organic and the d2c website and I think what I loved is I remember reading an article about how d2c is the new farmer's market and particularly if you think about it in a post-covid world. Um, you know we launched in 2021. Covid was still very present this idea of actually you don't need to be going to a farmer's market every saturday and getting real-time feedback from people. You can sell to them immediately and get feedback from someone who's ordered on your website and I really went in on that approach and just saw the d2c channel as a way of, uh, servicing people who I was marketing to or who I was trying to get into the brand um and um.
Jay Greenwood:It did it still does an amazing job at doing that for us and was the route always, you know, a blend of DTC and retail, or was the sort of long-term goal like to get into retail to the big stores? Was that that kind of the route that you had planned?
Amelia Christie-Miller:Yes, I've always wanted to be. You know, I don't think that long-term, as much as I love all these people who are buying our beans and on subscription you know, long-term people buy their beans from a supermarket, along with their, you know, canned veg and their tomatoes and everything like that, and I knew that actually, if I wanted to truly like change people's perception of beans, I needed to be where people are doing their grocery shopping, particularly for ingredients. So grocery was always on the agenda. I, you know, I sent an inquiry with our waitrose buyer two months before launching so and spoke to a Tesco buyer, you know, a month before that, who was a very junior buyer and really kindly gave me some insights. It wasn't necessarily to go into Tesco then. I don't think it would have worked, but I think that it was always on the agenda and I and I love, I love, I love supermarket brands.
Amelia Christie-Miller:I think there's so much to be said. I think it's maybe my personal experience. You know, going shopping with my mum was really exciting and, you know, looking at all of the different brands that are popping up. That's why I love I still love going shopping and just looking at what's out there. It's like a kind of anyone who loves food. It's interesting.
Jay Greenwood:Yeah, my partner always laughs at me because I actually get excited to go out and I'm just like, oh yeah, I want to see what's out there. She's like you're weird. So I wanted to dig into that story, though, about the waitress bar, because when I heard you talk about that previously, that sort of blew my mind. So it was two months before actually having that physical product ready to sell. What were you saying to them?
Amelia Christie-Miller:What was that conversation like? My usual line is hi, I'm Amelia, I'm on a mission to make people obsessed with beans. Can I send you some of mine to try? And let's be clear, I didn't actually speak to the buyer. I sent her some samples and harassed her on email for a few months and she didn't get a meeting with her, I think, basically until we'd agreed a deal.
Amelia Christie-Miller:I'm pretty sure that was the case Because, if you think about it for buyers, they don't want to speak to a kind of pretty desperate founder who's desperate for that for their business and let them down. They don't want to build that personal connection until they kind of know actually I do really want this product, so your product does need to speak for the, for itself. I think in that, in that scenario, I think that you know I was I was fortunate that you know she really liked what we were doing and, um, and yeah, it was just a matter of, you know, a few sample exchanges and a few emails of me kind of trying to not be too desperate following up and eventually getting into some negotiations and does that relate back to a herd, a term you said, where it's about brand servicing, not not brand selling?
Jay Greenwood:is that kind of the approach you took where it's actually just like I well, I don't know. What do you? What do you mean by sort of brand servicing?
Amelia Christie-Miller:yeah, I think that's definitely an approach we have to our marketing in general, um, and I think you can definitely apply it to grocery sales as well, although it is harder because it's such an obvious sell when you're trying to do it. But that's kind of very much, yeah, what we try to apply to our marketing, because, you know, people nowadays know when they're being sold to and actually it kind of makes people's stomach churns. It makes all of us feel a bit, oh, because you know people nowadays know when they're being sold to and actually it kind of makes people's stomach churns. It makes all of us feel a bit, oh God, can you know, move on. Ads, no thanks.
Amelia Christie-Miller:We're so perceptive now and I think that you know how we try and market is giving people an amazing recipe that is featuring chickpeas and probably just hoping that one day they might give ours a try. And you know a lot of the time they may not. They may just do that delicious recipe and use another pack of chickpeas. But actually there's that sort of idea of where we're doing this for more than just selling our product. We're doing this because we want to make people obsessed with beans.
Amelia Christie-Miller:I think it's tied to staying genuinely true to a mission and if we are staying genuinely true to our mission, we can't then be like, oh you know, our beans are so much better than other beans. We have to say we are the best beans. But slamming someone else's beans is not part of making people obsessed with beans. We can't do that and I mean to be honest, most people should try and avoid that in business. But um, slamming our competitors products, but um. It is one of those things where it has to run through everything you do if you're gonna, if you're gonna genuinely have it and authentically have it as a mission and going back to the, the waitress you sort of mentioned there in negotiations.
Jay Greenwood:I read this on I think it was an interview did, but it was on the internet so I don't know if it's completely true or whether or not, but it was that they were trying to negotiate you on the price and you sort of said no, that you couldn't go down to the level, and you stood really firm with them. So I'm curious, like how did you have the confidence to sort of stick, stay firm on like a big national retailer who was probably like a really big steps for you? How do you sort of have that confidence you to stay firm on that?
Amelia Christie-Miller:I didn't really have a choice because the product's expensive and you know, it wasn't like I was being a really amazing negotiator and I just like kind of conned my way, and you know, actually it was. I didn't have a choice. I needed to create a business model that works and I think that that was the bottom line. I wish it was my confidence in negotiation, but it wasn't.
Jay Greenwood:Was there any temptation, though, to when you first had that sort of offer, to be like, oh, I'm going to borrow some money to try and make it work, or was it just like no, fundamentally from the very beginning, this has to be like working well.
Amelia Christie-Miller:Just like no, fundamentally from the very beginning this has to be like working well, because I guess some people might think, oh, I'll just get into Waitrose, try sort of make it in there, get the name out, and then try sort of figure out later on yeah, I wish it came from like a really clever business perspective, but I think it actually in a way came from like confidence and not wanting to be down that rabbit hole of constant money being lost because my previous company that I'd worked for went bust during COVID. And that kind of anxiety as an employee of that company of not knowing whether your job was safe was just was really horrible, and I felt that going headstrong into a business model that didn't work would kind of lead to that environment which I didn't want to create.
Jay Greenwood:I want to now move on to brands, and I think this was a story about when you were sort of setting up and you were initially going to call the company Humble and I think it was like aimed around Gen Z and there was a song that had just come out, and so what sort of stopped you and how did you, like, decide what the right route was for the tone of voice and the brand?
Amelia Christie-Miller:Oh, yeah, it's so funny. I just I remember going to a gig maybe like six months before Covid, and it was a gig where you know when you've come up with a new brand you're like this band's so cool and then you go and you realize, oh my God, I'm so old, like everyone was so young, wearing kind of all saints outfits, and I was like I am officially old and I remember like Hendrick Lamar's song Humble came on and all of all of the kids were like knowing every lyric and I was like like, oh my God, they are obsessed with this song and I, you know my I've got two brothers who are obsessed with hip hop and they love, they love Kendrick Lamar. So I knew it. But I was like humble and I was like and humble beans, and we can do. Kendrick's song is all about like kind of being sort of like ironically, like not humble at all. It like not humble at all, it's like being really kind of proud and cocky. And I was like we can make it ironic and it's going to be like we're really humble but like we're not because we're really proud, and I was like this is such a cool idea and I was trying to make it really cool.
Amelia Christie-Miller:And then I think I forgot throughout the process that in the first few years of launching a brand, the brand is basically you and I'm not cool. So so I was like, what am I trying to do? Like, imagine me trying to do copywriting in a cool way. It just wouldn't fail.
Amelia Christie-Miller:And then, as well as that, I realized that most people didn't get the nuance. It's so hard to tell consumers nuance. You need to tell them exactly what they're doing with the product. You can't give them a kind of an ironic way of how to use the product, and the same goes for anything you're saying about products. So I flipped it and was like, right, I need to start from the beginning. It needs to be the opposite of humble, which is bold and proud and kind of all of those kind of things that I was trying to represent, but in a non-ironic way, in a genuine way. And then I started, you know, did loads of names and that, and I voted, got the, got the audience there on Instagram to kind of vote through the names, which is really fun process and the brand has built a bit of a following and you've had endorsements from, like chefs and celebrities.
Jay Greenwood:I guess, reflecting back on sort of the process of sort of getting to those endorsements organically, what do you think the foundations were that made? Actually, people just want to shout about this product and like actually just showcase it to their audience as well.
Amelia Christie-Miller:Yeah, I mean, it has been really amazing and some of like the most incredible personal highlights. For me as a, as a foodie and someone who's bought so many cookbooks over the years, it really has been the the most incredible thing. When you get a shout out from one of your idols, um, I think it boils down to probably the need that I identified as a someone who loves cooking and loves eating, and I I think those chefs relate, and so my background was working with London restaurant chefs and I was seeing in their move towards more plant forward cooking, they weren't using fake meats and fake cheeses, they were just celebrating really beautiful ingredients and including far more quality pulses in them celebrating really beautiful ingredients and including far more quality pulses in them. So I was seeing this from the London's best restaurants and I think that that is mimicked in a lot of people who love food.
Amelia Christie-Miller:They don't want to compromise on a sausage. They prefer to not have a sausage and just have a beautiful bowl of beans with slow cooked aubergine and miso or whatever it may be, and I think that the reason why we've been able to capture the hearts of those influential chefs is because they feel exactly the same way. They love eating. They love food and they don't want to compromise on it to eat better for the planet. But they do want to eat better for the planet and I think beans fill that need of making satisfying meals that are delicious and just so happen to be eat better for the planet. And I think beans fill that need of making satisfying meals that are delicious and just so happen to be really good for the planet.
Jay Greenwood:I want to now talk about sort of you as an entrepreneur and how resourceful you are, and I want to maybe highlight a story that I thought was incredible and it's the Shillington School and I think it's Dan Gurney. Can you tell us that story and just like how you even decided to like go down that route? It just blew my mind. I thought it was incredible.
Amelia Christie-Miller:Yeah, so Dan was. He was our designer who came up with our brand identity when, you know, back in COVID years, covid summer, and it was one of those things where I was bootstrapping the business. I, you know, was on furlough and because I thought I was being made redundant I was eventually made redundant, I'd moved back home to my parents. I just didn't have a lot of money and I didn't. I don't think I had the confidence to fundraise at that point and I was like I want to, you know, get going. And I didn't even consider a branding agency. I was just like I know that's going to cost like thousands of pounds. And I was just like, oh, a graphic designer is a graphic designer. And I went on the Shillington website and had the grads of COVID and poor things you know, graduated in COVID, shillington's a graphic design school, and poor things graduate in COVID and don't have many job opportunities. And I got them all to kind of interview for this opportunity to do the brand identity for Bull Bean.
Amelia Christie-Miller:And I love Dan's work, I loved his style and we ended up working together on it and in hindsight I'm so grateful to him because he was so patient for me and so patient with me, as I was, you know, toing and froing about the most minute detail and I think that an agency would have honestly just gone completely nuts with me. But Dan had no experience, so he was like, well, maybe this is just what clients are, like a complete nightmare. But it was really fantastic Hopefully both ways and yeah, I'm really like really pleased with what he, what he, did for us and yeah, I'm really like really pleased with what he did for us.
Jay Greenwood:He got us off to the most incredible start. And another theme as well was sort of I could listening to some of the stories is just how self-aware you are. Because there's one story about sort of the packing and sending and like there's kind of like a I guess, a myth, or like this dream where, as an entrepreneur, you need to be doing every single thing throughout the whole business from the very beginning. This dream where, as an entrepreneur, you need to be doing every single thing throughout the whole business from the very beginning and but sort of you decided that you know your time was best spent other places. So, on reflection, do you think that's the right thing for the entrepreneur should be doing, or do you think they should be doing everything? How do you think about it?
Amelia Christie-Miller:I very much encourage that behavior is identifying your strong suits and going for them and outsourcing where you're not strong. I think that there is a real risk of. You know, of course I did a lot in hindsight. I did do so much that I was terrible at in the early days, but where possible, you know, I outsourced because I think that you've got to value your time and actually you're wasting money on spending your time on something which you're rubbish at when you could be driving up demand. And we try and like echo that to our team. You know we really try and identify their strengths and make sure that they're playing to their strengths and, you know, trying to optimize, use AI or find someone else to support where they're not good, and I think I think it's a good life lesson for anyone. I try and say it to my mum the whole time as well. I'm like but mum, you're not good at that, get someone else to do that, because you've got to value your time. I think it's really important and people don't practice enough.
Jay Greenwood:I think there's a guilt associated with it, but I think that as soon as you get going and start thinking about productivity, activity and efficiency, that guilt goes away and you actually think it's just sensible one thing I loved how you talk about as well was past work experience, and some people have the viewpoint that previous jobs are a waste of time and it's just like getting in the way of maybe them achieving things. But you're reflecting on yourself saying that you know they all stack up. Do you think that's sort of true, that you know people should take those past experiences and actually see them what they can actually do with that?
Amelia Christie-Miller:I? I think it's sort of having a growth mindset, isn't it actually? It's just seeing everything as part of, like, your development and, yeah, I suppose you know, maybe it's uh, you try and find that positive spin on experience you have. I definitely feel like everything I did did lead to bold bean and some. You know, I had a really terrible experience in my early career, um, working in a very toxic, um environment, but I don't regress it because it definitely taught me a lot. It taught me a lot about what not to do and I think that to be an entrepreneur, you have to have a growth mindset, because it is really hard and there are loads of things that are going to get you down, but you you can't wallow in wasted time or failures, because it's going to happen and in order to get up each day, you need to be able to like kind of try and see a positive, see it as a learning. I just think it'd be really hard without that.
Jay Greenwood:Yeah, I think it's really interesting because I was talking to Harp is the founder of Tenzing the other day and he was basically saying how he failed in his other startups but because of his experience in Red Bull and some other community stuff, they made him the perfect person who's in zing and are reflecting on your career and it's like the chef, the sort of then doing the online tech stuff, building the community, sort of made you like the only person who really could have driven this to the success it's had, and that's why I think it's so interesting, because maybe at the time you might feel like, oh, I don't want to be doing this job, but yet that gave you the foundations to be the only person you could like do bold bingo as well as you have yeah, and I think it's a really it's.
Amelia Christie-Miller:It's really nice to view it that way because, also, as you start scaling up the business, you do, naturally it gets bigger than you ever dreamed and you're bringing in really incredible people who have amazing experience and you are like, oh my god, who am I to be leading this business? But having that those foundations help build that confidence a bit and I heard you say as well, um, about your co-founder.
Jay Greenwood:Well now, co-founder Ed, that you wanted him from the very start, like you were trying to get him on board. So what was like? What did you, like, reflect on yourself that made you think, oh, he was definitely the perfect person to come on board. And then what did you say to convince him to take that step from what he was doing to join the company?
Amelia Christie-Miller:Yeah, so we worked together previously and we were in kind of different departments and I always just really admired like his skills, his determination, his hardworking nature and also his passion as well At the time. Obviously he wasn't passionate about beans, which was my biggest problem, and I honestly couldn't think of anyone else. I was just really, you know, I remember being like right, I'm going to ask him, and it was quite a nerve wracking thing. I remember taking him to a pub in London and be like I've got this idea and he was like he didn't immediately say no, but he just basically said no after a few he's like no, it's not for me. And I was kind of actually, I was really gutted but then also a bit like proud because it's a rejection of your, of your business idea and it's, it's's hard and I sort of probably kept my cool away from him. He got another job somewhere else.
Amelia Christie-Miller:I was slightly probably trying to show off things, hoping he'd see it, and and then he like calls me like eight months later or maybe a year later, and was like we were just catching up, having a general catch-up, and I was probably subtly trying to show off. I was like, yeah, well, people are actually liking me, blah, blah, blah. And then he was talking about how he wasn't that happy at where he was and I was like, well, why do you come and join? And he was like, really, and then I think by then he'd tried a few more of the beans he'd got, he'd understood.
Amelia Christie-Miller:And that is one thing which you know was is really hard is teaching someone to have the same level of obsession, obsession as you, and early stages it is really hard because there isn't enough proof of concept and you know. But now Ed is completely been mad and I trust, like I trust, that everyone joining can become been mad. It's just I was probably a bit naive in that early stage expecting everyone to have the same enthusiasm, because it does come from a bit of madness as well. You've got to have a bit of madness at that early stage because a lot of things are against you and what was the impact of how?
Jay Greenwood:because, like you, are a sole founder and then sort of getting people on board to sort of share the journey. How impactful was that on you and your journey in entrepreneurship?
Amelia Christie-Miller:it's been amazing. I really. I feel so um fortunate to share it with Ed, because it's it's just having someone to talk to about all those things and feeling like someone cares about the business um as much as you, and just not being alone is really critical and it really works well because we have complementary skill sets and that is, I think, key.
Amelia Christie-Miller:From what I've heard from a lot of other people, it really is challenging if there are, if there are, diverging skill sets and then also because I founded the business in terms of the story and, you know, initially alone, it's been very clear that actually the founder story is mine, because it was mine, so it's authentically mine and so there isn't any confusion there about, like, I suppose, the PR side of the brand. So I think that really helps as well. But I really recommend and I think I felt like I had left it too late. You know, I'd worked on the business for a year and a half and I was like, oh well, no one can join now. But I think it's actually about you know, bringing on someone but then also treating them like a, an equal partner in terms of, you know, making decisions together.
Amelia Christie-Miller:And I'd like to think that Ed and I make decisions together. You know we run the business together. I'm like to think that Ed and I make decisions together. You know we run the business together. I'm not in by any way his boss and he's not mine, and I think that is the key distinction and I think that's probably quite hard for some people to give up if they've, if they've got used used to it, but I was, I just way prefer having you know a partner, and I think that's what people will miss out on if they are alone. And, yeah, I think that's the biggest thing is just having a partner.
Jay Greenwood:And I want to now reflect back on sort of entrepreneurship itself and I think you know everyone really like admires the idea of starting their own business. It's like the goal for them. But I wanted to talk about sort of your experience in it and I think you've referenced that like admires the idea of starting their own business. It's like the goal for them. But I wanted to talk about sort of your experience in it and I think you've referenced that like it's not always glitz and glamour. I think you described it as a toxic relationship. So what's your kind of experience been in entrepreneurship and as you reflect back on the good and bad sort of, how do you sort of you know to give a transparent viewpoint of what it's actually like to to start your own business and try drive it?
Amelia Christie-Miller:yeah, I think it is intoxicating. So I'm using the word toxic again because I think it's it's so addictive and there's so much pleasure, but it is really hard and that's it feels. It feels probably quite cliched and repetitive. I'm sure everyone says that, but I think it's something around like you have to be ready to be kind of a bit possessed by um something else in your life and it does come at the compromise of other things in your life. You know, um social life. You're not going to have as much energy for being sociable throughout the week. Um. You know family, um health sometimes. But we're really I'm we're really trying to work on that.
Amelia Christie-Miller:But being making sure ed and I kind of go through at the end of the week and say what have you done exercise wise, what have you done mental health wise? We try and really encourage that, but you need to be proactive about that. Um. But I would say overall it is like an accelerator in life experience. I always recommend it to people because I just don't think you can regret trying something because you're going to learn so much and I think, just do it about something that you really care about, because it makes getting up easier. And that's obviously from personal experience. I've never worked in something that I haven't cared about, but I think that that has really helped get me through. Each day is just like really genuinely caring about what we do.
Jay Greenwood:And when you look back do you kind of regret not doing it sooner, because I guess when I was listening to the story there was one sort of catalyst that it was sort of COVID came, you weren't working and it kind of felt like the sort of the boats had been burned. There was no turning back, so that was the only option. Was that kind of how it felt for you? Or how do you think about sort of going all in versus maybe getting another job and then just doing it as like a side hustle or something?
Amelia Christie-Miller:I think I wanted to. I spoke about it like a side hustle initially and I think I just wanted to take the pressure off. I didn't want people to be like, oh, that business you're talking about and then it like fails and you're a bit embarrassed. It's just basically ego, isn't it? You're just kind of like embarrassed about failure. So I definitely called it a side hustle for a while and it also meant that I could talk about it with my employers at the tech company. I was like, oh, I think I'm going to do a side hustle and obviously secretly, I was hoping it would be huge, but I just played it down and I think that's good for taking the pressure off a little bit but also being able to vocalize it, because the amount of people who come to you with ideas or connections when you say, oh, I'm doing this, it is a really good thing to talk about. I think a lot of people are nervous about articulating it in case someone steals their idea, but most people cannot be bothered to start a business, particularly in your specific idea subset. Like, I just don't think that's a problem and I think I had the idea before COVID and then COVID was just an amazing opportunity. So I was already sort of feel bad. I hope my previous employers because I really respected my bosses never hear this. But I, oh my God, I can't believe I'm missing this.
Amelia Christie-Miller:But I booked a day off and I booked. I was working that day. I was online on Slack but I went to this like how to start a food business course at some random London university and pretend I was working all day. Well, that's terrible, I can't believe. I just listed that. So I was kind of like planning on winding down. But I think, financially, depending on how like how bad you feel when you haven't got income, which I feel very bad and like anxious I knew I needed income to not feel. I just would have felt awful if I just had like outgoings and not no incoming. So I consulted even after I got made redundant to supplement to make me feel less like I was just leaking cash. But also that's why you should fundraise and I wish I had fundraised sooner so I was about to say I'm reflecting back.
Jay Greenwood:Is there one thing that you've changed at an early start? And I guess it's like we were saying that just maybe getting some fundraising in early would have been the path you would have gone down.
Amelia Christie-Miller:Yes, I think finding angel investors who are from the industry and who believe in what you're doing is also like having a business partner, because they are putting their money into you, so they believe in you, and that gave me a lot of faith in myself, knowing that people wanted to put their hard earned money into Bulby, and it made me think, wow, these guys know what they're talking about. And I think that that changed my respect for myself, my respect for the business and also just my respect for how I was running the business as people giving money. So I would have taken that earlier and not also respected my own time on the business. I think, like just it.
Jay Greenwood:I would recommend that, if you, if you can well that's the perfect place to wrap up the interview and I want to say one thank you so much for coming on. Uh, such incredible conversation. Also, just one incredible product you've created like it is just absolutely amazing. So anyone who's listening should definitely go out and try, if they have not, because you will be a convert after 100. Oh, thank you. As always, guys, thank you so much for listening, really appreciate the support and if you guys like it and you're enjoying what you're listening to, please like and subscribe and write a review. We'd really appreciate it again. We'll be back doing this weekly and, yeah, if you want to know more about starting a food business, head to wwwjgreenwoodcom. But, guys, as always, thank you and be great.