Recipe for Greatness
Recipe for Greatness
From Mars to Merchant Gourmet: Richard Peake's Journey Through FMCG
Richard Peake shares his remarkable journey from Mars Graduate Scheme to doubling Merchant Gourmet's revenue as Managing Director and the leadership lessons he learned along the way. His approach to business combines vulnerability with high standards, creating frameworks that empower teams while staying true to brand authenticity.
• Early career at Mars provided foundation but entrepreneurial spirit led to Method, Lily's Kitchen and RX Bar UK
• Finding opportunities in "unsexy markets" by making enduring product categories culturally relevant
• Creating the perfect balance between structure and entrepreneurial freedom with his "swim lane" approach
• Leadership philosophy centred on vulnerability and servant leadership
• The importance of brand authenticity and getting comfortable in your own skin
• Winning at point of purchase through distinctive packaging and shelf presence
• Understanding personal strengths and weaknesses rather than following prescribed career paths
Check out Merchant Gourmet's ready-to-eat plant-based products and learn more about starting a food business at www.jgreenwood.com
3, 2, 1, 0, and liftoff Liftoff. Hello and welcome to the Recipe for Greatness podcast. I'm your host, jay Greenwood, and today on the podcast we have Richard Peake, the Managing Director of Merchant Gourmet, a UK-based brand specialising in ready-to-eat plant-based foods like pulses, grains and lentils. Specialising in ready-to-eat plant-based foods like pulses, grains and lentils. Since joining the company in 2020, richard has overseen significant growth, with revenues increasing from £15 million to over £30 million by 2024. Richard's career began at Mars Graduate Scheme, providing him with a strong foundation in fast-moving consumer goods. He then led leadership roles at Method Lily's Kitchen and served as a managing director at RX Bar in the UK. Richard, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much. Great to be on.
Speaker 2:I wanted to jump in and ask about the start of your career, whether or not there were any internal compasses or external influences directing you or sort of pulling you towards the master graduate scheme, or did you have any other plans or visions for your career?
Speaker 1:You know, probably at that point I don't think I did. I think my answer to that is probably a bit boring, which is, I guess I probably was always quite interested in business and value creation. But I don't think I really knew what I wanted to do and I probably followed just quite a tried and tested path of going into a kind of bigger business, bigger graduate scheme, trying to learn the ropes a bit and then understand where my energy was from then. But I'd be very much lying if I said I had a kind of preconceived view of where that was going to take me.
Speaker 2:I had a kind of preconceived view of where that was going to take me. And method came onto the scene, and you've spoken about your love for unsexy markets before, so I guess what was the moment you decided to take that leap from sort of a very established Mars sort of career path to going to a slightly different product, as you described as unsexy market? So how did you make that decision?
Speaker 1:yeah, I, I, I think I realized, um, not too far into my journey with Mars that I, I it wasn't necessarily for me I, I was there for a good sort of eight years or so, um, but I think where it really came to mind was probably like two years before I left. I set up my own business, which, weirdly enough, was like premium savoury popcorn, because we always thought it was a big opportunity. I did it, I did it with a friend and it was before the days when savoury popcorn was actually a thing, and we felt like it was before the days when savory popcorn was actually a thing and we felt like it was a massive opportunity. And I guess, like, the point of mentioning it is that, you know, we brought a product to the market. We said to ourselves, right, let's put it into some stores, and if it gets to a certain like rate of sale and we really believe, um, it could work, we're just going to give up our jobs and that's going to be our thing. Um, so put it into the market. It had a really good rate of sale. It sold out really quickly in the little shops we put it into. And then we were like, oh, we've actually just, uh, got a house and in fact, both our wives at the time were pregnant with our first children and we were like we it's, we can't actually do this.
Speaker 1:But what the what it sort of taught me is that the times when I was really excited I was basically just during those two years. I was just waking up, thinking about that business not, like you know, trying to sell more chocolate for Mars and I just really enjoyed the whole concept, the design, going out, trying to sell it in, and it just became so obvious that actually I needed to do something on a smaller scale. That was kind of more entrepreneurial. And so Method yeah, you kind of mentioned Method where actually at that point it probably just launched in the UK, but hadn't really. I loved the product, loved the brand.
Speaker 1:It was something that felt more purposeful as well, which I think kind of later on in Mars also became important to me. I was kind of like, what am I actually doing this for, and am I going to really feel proud that I've just sold more and more chocolate into the world, or actually can I do something that is creating a bit more of an impact? Um, and method kind of gave me a lot of that stuff and a lot of people said to me what you know? What are you doing? They're like small, insignificant household cleaning brand.
Speaker 1:It's going to be really boring it. You know you're totally crazy. There's a career, few of miles, um. But it was probably the best decision ever made because I loved every minute of that business um and the whole growth journey and kind of getting everyone vibed behind a purpose and a brand and all that good stuff which I'm sure we'll talk about later and I sort of touched on it before but like, why do you love these sort of unsexy markets on the sort of, you know, for entrepreneurs out there who it's not the standard one?
Speaker 2:like, let's go, take this one on. And I guess, following on from that, are there any categories that now that you believe sort of holds potential that sort of people are overlooking at the moment?
Speaker 1:at the moment, um, yeah, good, I don't know. Good question I. I just think there's a map, I think there's a consistent opportunity, huge opportunity in, you know, taking enduring trends which are never going away and making them culturally relevant. That's kind of the like summary point. And whether that be household cleaning, which everyone always needs to clean, but there's a different way of doing it, whether it be, you know, pet food but actually humanizing it, it doesn't really matter. And I think you know those categories I personally find the most fascinating, rather than the ones that everyone's piling into because they believe it's the next fad, but it may not be.
Speaker 1:Um, and you know, you can I walk around supermarkets all the time and just see ones where I'm like that that's a dusty category, like it's been around for years and years and years and years and years. Everyone's always going to need this thing. But there's so much opportunity to to kind of challenge it. Um, and to your point, you know it'd be difficult for me to kind of pick out a specific trend, but I, you know, I love what the guys at suri have done. Don't know if you've seen with their like toothbrushes, what an amazing. It's such a cool business, like everyone's going to brush their teeth twice a day, but they're solving a problem and they've created a beautiful design.
Speaker 1:Um, the guys you know the people that actually founded method. Um, a guy called eric ryan is just a serial entrepreneur and afterwards he went on and kind of revitalized the vitamin and wellness category. Um, he set up a business called welly, which is um making first aid boxes sexy, which became massive, massive. You know, it's so that, yeah, I think there's opportunity everywhere if you can find that sweet spot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's so true as well because a lot of people as well get caught up in this sort of tech hype now and AI and stuff, but there's so many great businesses that can be created and, like you say, these categories that just aren't as exciting as others and you know what it's easy without can be created and, like you say, these categories- that just aren't as exciting as others.
Speaker 1:Um, and you know what it's. It's easy without yeah, I'm gonna stop going on, but like it's, it's easier to win in those areas because you tend to find, like, if you're trying to get into mass, you know supermarket buyers are screaming out for something different and interesting in those categories, rather than you know where a supermarket buy is being swamped by 10 approaches every day because you found the new functional drink or like whatever it may be. I think. I actually think if you have an interesting, challenging concept, the selling's easier and you were sort of the band behind scaling method in the UK.
Speaker 2:are there any frameworks, frameworks or strategies that you developed to your time and method to get the product in front of people and get them buying it, because you mentioned that sort of it's not as a sexy product as other ones and are there any of these strategies that you still use today in sort of other businesses you've been a part of?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, I think it's nothing new at all, but I think the sort of physical availability, as you call it, or like how a product shows up at the point of purchase, I think is so important into color and design of the product and clearly that's attractive, um, when you've got it in the home. But also if you merchandise it well in store it can really pop. I mean, we kind of used to call it trying to create the candy store in in on a shelf in store, get the products all together and make it really pop on shelf. And you can, you can get you know, I really believe you can get a long way doing that. So the kind of concept of winning at the point of can get you know, I really believe you can get a long way doing that. So the kind of concept of winning at the point of purchase um, you know, at merchant gourmet now we spend a huge amount of time on our packaging and what it looks like. We have our own in-house design. We, we kind of obsess over it, partly because you know what's on the outside reflects what's on the inside, right, but also partly because you know it, it looks great on shelf and that's probably something that mars, you know, taught me that they had a really good phrase.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to remember it was something like you, you want people to make you know you've been successful if people make an active decision not to buy you. Um, and I quite like that as a sort of concept. So I think that that's definitely something that we try to repeat. Um, and then probably the other thing is, you know, just in moving from big to smaller business and I definitely didn't get this right method, but it it's become more of a thing for me which is the importance of of, you know, basically the importance of actually having process. So I got very frustrated regularly you know, the bigger corporate of Mars because of the amount of process and kind of had this fallacy idea that you could just go into a small business and just throw it all out the window and be super agile and move really quickly. But actually, weirdly, I think process is more important in those smaller businesses and I definitely didn't get that right at the beginning.
Speaker 2:And we'll talk more about Merchant Conway later, but I want to talk about RxBar and you were tasked with building the high-growth brand and sort of bringing it to the UK. What were your biggest lessons from that experience? And if you had a time machine, if you could go back and redo one thing, what would you? What would you? What would it be?
Speaker 1:um, yeah, I, I would, I would pull on that same point around. You know, merchant, um, sorry, rx bar was. The job there was to launch the brand in the uk and europe. Um, and it was a kind of a massively growing juggernaut in the us and we sort of had to start from scratch was a super exciting brief because there was budget behind it, there was some latent awareness. I love the I still do, you know, love the brand, um, and was very much the sort of myself felt very much like the target market, which means your decisions are much more instinctive.
Speaker 1:Um, but again, I think we probably we, your time machine question. I just think we went too quick at it and didn't give it enough time to kind of breathe and build up the awareness before we went mass. We did slow it down and we did say no to the big retailers quite a few times, but I'd almost have slowed that down even more and then probably just creating the internal framework and structure that you, you desperately need, particularly in what is effect. You know what was effectively a startup business? Um, it's kind of like I I've used the analogy before. It's a bit of a weird analogy, so bear with me, but it's sort of like I always see big businesses. If you've got a whole bunch of people and you know a massive, olympic sized swimming pool and you say, right, I want you to get from this end to the other end of the pool in the shortest amount of time, if you're in a massive business, they will give every, they'll do it 100 percent. They'll give everyone swim lanes, they'll tell you exactly how to get there, what stroke to use, and everyone will get there. They may not get there super quick, but they'll get there.
Speaker 1:In a small business with no process, you just take all that away and you say just go, and every so often you will get there really quick. But often it just becomes an absolute shit show because everybody's falling all over themselves, bashing into each other. There's no structure and I think the the thing that I learned in rx bar that hopefully we've really applied here is to sort of say to everybody you have a swim, like the structures there, this framework. You have a swim lane, but how you get there is is totally up to you. You be entrepreneurial, use front, crawl, backstroke, whatever you want to do, whatever's easiest, or, you know, hire a speedboat and get across that way, because no one said that was a rule, um, and if you do that, everybody will get there and they'll get there in the quickest way possible. Um, yeah, weird analogy, but it's sort of.
Speaker 2:It's how you combine those things together, which I learned a lot of at rx, I think yeah, well, let's, let's dig into leadership then, because it seems easier said than done to sort of just let people kind of get to where they need to what. What systems or frameworks do you need to have in place to sort of empower the um, the team, so you can just sort of be an effective leader from your experience? What are the like, the frameworks or strategies you use?
Speaker 1:yeah, um, I, I think for me, like my, probably my biggest personal learning and it kind of reflects on the other questions you've asked is, um, I, I'm, I'm not and I'm not personally, I don't excel in any particular function or discipline and I can guarantee that very quickly I could hire somebody that will be better than me at any specific thing, a hundred percent. Um, and I think, like, weirdly enough, my, if you like, superpower is almost is being vulnerable enough to kind of recognize that, to recognize that I'm really not, I, I never like at school, I was never amazing at anything. Um, and I think being kind of vulnerable enough to kind of recognise that I'm really not, I never like at school, I was never amazing at anything. And I think being kind of vulnerable enough to recognise that is almost a sort of strength within itself and then create the kind of conditions and culture for those super talented, great people in their disciplines to thrive. And I think that's what I've become good at, like almost helping to elevate people.
Speaker 1:And I think, specifically on your question, you know what does that mean? You know, push people really hard to break rules and take risks, and actually there's a massive, you know that's a culture. There's a big comfort blanket underneath you. Just take a risk, get it wrong, move on. Um, encouraging people to be like really relentless and challenge what's possible. You know, like, why can't we get that done by then? Like if I, if I was sitting there and holding a gun to your head and said it has to be done by then, you would do it by then.
Speaker 1:So, like, what, what, what needs to be true in order for that to happen? Um, reminding people of the kind of vision and the purpose and like why they're there, um, you know it, making it bigger than just the job they're doing. Um, and then, yeah, I guess all of that is kind of it's sort of what I always call servant leadership. It's kind of like, look, my job is to help, you know, show you where to get to, um, and basically knock everything down in front of you so you can just sprint and be great and kind of get out of your way. But that's got to. That can't just be words. You know, like there's loads of businesses where it's like, oh, we're really empowering, but actually there's a huge blame culture that sits underneath it. It has to, it has to kind of permeate in everything you do.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, and it reminds me of a quote that, um, I think you say to your kids it's be the brightest light in the room, be positive, be curious and be kind In your leadership style. How do you reconcile the need for, like, ambition, high standards, authority, but then have that sort of kindness? And because I was listening to a lot of the podcasts you've done, you seem like you personally sort of embody that kind of quote in itself. So how do you balance that kind of like, say, the high standards with that um and authority with kindness and positivity?
Speaker 1:I yeah, it is what this is a very specific style, and I'm just very conscious that there are a bunch of other styles that work equally well. So I guess it's kind of what I really um relate to, but I do think it's that. You know, I think what sits underneath the whole thing is vulnerability, which I've sort of mentioned before. I think it's a trait that I actually think in itself is really powerful, um, and it's something that has taken me a long time to become comfortable with. Um, and it's also a trait I massively admire in other people.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, I sort of not going too deep but, like I say to my young kids, a lot um and this isn't my quote at all, but I've heard it used before around this concept of roots and wings, where it's like well, you know, as a parent, my job is to give you really deep roots, where you know you're in a loving environment, you've got loads of security, and the concept is it just gives you the wings to go out and fly and be great and you'll get stuff wrong.
Speaker 1:Right, like, stuff will definitely go wrong, and in business stuff goes wrong all the time, but when it does like we're here and you're not going to get judged. We'll just work out what went wrong and then move on really quickly. Um, so I think you can combine the two because I think if you, if people, have actually that level of empowerment, then you know you're all kind of doing the same thing and you shouldn't need. This is in a perfect world and it takes a while to build up. I don't think you should need to be hauling people over the coals to stack to levels and standards. You know, you, you, you shouldn't, because people should kind of want to get there themselves.
Speaker 2:Um, it's idealistic but um, very effective when it works now I want to dig into sort of the arc of your career. So you started off as a Mars graduate to joining a 15 million pound revenue business as the managing director, which is like a remarkable journey over time. So were there any pivotal decisions or forks in the road that, looking back, made all the difference to get you there?
Speaker 1:I don't think I'd be, I don't think I could really point to one I guess. I guess you know a couple of observations as I've gone is I, I think, do what you're good like, try to spend as much time as you can doing what you're good at and actually doing what you enjoy, and those two things hopefully usually come together. Um, yeah, listen to kind of lots of podcasts and there was a really good quote from I think it was like a jimmy carr quote on one of them where he was like the world doesn't need another person who's average of physics. It's kind of like you know, work out where your strengths are and do more of those, and I think I've I've tried to do that as I've gone along. I think you know I mentioned it a bit earlier. But if you can find something where you are the target market, I think that really helps.
Speaker 1:Um, I remember kind of at Lily's Kitchen I didn't have a pet and it's fine because you can kind of get it, but you just you're just one step removed to what decision making processes are people moving through, particularly in marketing. If you have a marketing team which are the target market, life is so much easier because it's kind of like well, what, what would you buy? Where would you pick that up, like, how would you respond to that? Um? So I think trying to yeah, I probably can isolate one thing, but I think trying to kind of immerse yourself in a world that you understand and that you enjoy and then be vulnerable enough to understand what you're not good at and what you are good at, I think, is um, has really helped me as I've gone through my career and you joined Emerge.
Speaker 2:For me as the MD, and like you know the, the goal was for you, I'm sure for you to just grow the business. So when you stepped in there, how did you evaluate where the business could grow? Were there any processes you used to sort of decide what initiatives to double down on or to invest in new product development? How did you sort of evaluate those two?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you need to sit. Yeah, I mean, did I do this that well? Probably not, but I think I think you need to sit with it for a while and actually like spend time kind of absorbing what's working and what isn't. You know, it's kind of like when people say a lot when you buy a house and the first thing you want to do straight away is to kind of change that room or, or, you know, do some work here, you know, but the advice is often actually just spend some time understanding, like where does the sun come in, and actually I don't spend much of my time here, and so I think I think you know, I don't think I did this that well, but I think actually just spending a good bit of time really understanding who the consumer is and what the core of the brand is is really important, because we I'm not really answering your question here, but we went down, you know, a number of kind of dead-end routes not dead-end routes but probably took a few wrong decisions about actually let's go all after plant-based or, you know, um, and try and be a bit edgy in our tone of voice and attract younger consumers, and but actually that's just never really who we were as a brand and over time, we got really comfortable in our own skin and that's when, actually, things really started to take off, because we were like, ok, this is who we are, we're brand built on food and a love of food and quality and taste, and that's got to be in every decision that we make.
Speaker 1:And then the strategy kind of ends up coming off the back of that, because then it's like, okay, well, where should we be? Like where we got a right to win in MPD. On that basis, what? Who should our target consumer really be? What should our tone of voice be? Um, so yeah, not really a direct answer to the question, but I think I think it. It took longer.
Speaker 2:It took a little bit longer than I expected yeah, no, I find it really interesting as well, because I heard you talk about sort of the whole when you recognize that the products were all vegan and then you sort of thought, like that there's a potential opportunity. And then I heard you speak about um red lines, the non-negotiables of a brand. So, yeah, I guess how do you um balance, staying true to those founding principles and then adapting to new customer trends?
Speaker 1:yeah, no, that that is a good question. I think the red lines bit is important and that's probably a better way of what I was referring to a bit earlier, which is actually, you know, the red lines for us as a brand is it's it's authenticity, it's quality and it's taste and flavor that they are the things that have to be. You know, running through everything we do, from marketing to product innovation, to procurement, etc. Um, and I think if you get really clear on those and kind of box them off, um, and say that's got like those things have got to be ticked, I think you can play around a bit underneath that and then kind of decide what rules you or what rule you're going to break and then deliberately break it. Um, but not try and yeah, not try and change everything.
Speaker 2:And one question I was just curious about as well was because I was speaking to a founder and they were saying about the challenge of getting customers up an aisle and typical canned fish. It's hard to get consumers up the aisle to get excited about canned fish and especially targeting that younger demographic. How have you approached trying to get that younger demographic down the aisle to actually down the lens and actually start exploring? You know Birch and Gourmet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's such a good question. I think you yes, I've learned that you have to be authentic. I think we I briefly mentioned it earlier, but I think we were like, ok, we're going to go after a younger consumer, these are the things they're interested about and this is who we need to be we need to be a bit edgy and a bit, you know, like big impact statements and it's just, it's totally not what the brand is. We're like a legacy, you know, heritage brand, and that was just the wrong move and I think, think you know, the younger consumer can kind of just sniff that out a mile off, I think.
Speaker 1:I don't know, this is probably a broader point and it may it may not be totally accurate, but I think kind of a lot of younger consumers and younger people are still working out you know who they they are and where their authenticity is and getting comfortable in their own skin, and I feel like they respond really well to people or brands who are comfortable in their own skin, no matter what that is.
Speaker 1:But that's the kind of the idea of being honest and authentic and, yeah, I guess, just being true to your own values, and so I think once we got kind of clear on that. You're kind of then unapologetically, that that person, even if it's seen as you know, it's not massively cool or edgy um, if you're passionate about something and comfortable within that, that's a really great tone of voice to have. And actually we found that once we started doing that, people actually really kind of got like a lot of the younger consumers got behind it. And you know, there's the obvious point about making sure that you're solving their unmet needs and you know what's their life like and actually are they going to be spending hours and hours kind of soaking dried lentils and cooking them? Probably not. They're going to want a meal on the go in minutes, and so you need to innovate behind that. But that's probably the more obvious point.
Speaker 2:And with marketing, especially with a company that's a 30 million revenue business. You've mentioned sort of winning at the point of sale. So how, what can you break down like what that means, and I guess with marketing as well, because you mentioned the packaging. But how does sort of the marketing play in the online and offline experience? Because offline, in the supermarkets point of purchase, is there anything else you're doing to get them buying the products?
Speaker 1:yeah.
Speaker 1:I think I think and again, my experience of this in a in a business you know even a kind of medium-sized business that your marketing budgets are not massive and so I think, to feel like you can generate mass awareness or actually start, you know, using marketing above the line to educate people is probably not realistic.
Speaker 1:Um, so I think you know, if you divert a lot of your marketing spend towards that decision making point right where people because people have got to see, yeah, if people are in a mindset where they're looking for something, they've got to see your product or the category, so that's going, that interaction is going to happen.
Speaker 1:So I think, if you can win at that point or be the loudest brand there you'll, you know, you give yourself a good advantage, um, and what we've done quite a lot of more recently as we've grown and we've had a little bit more marketing spend, is just to slightly bring those like concentric circles out a little bit um in people's shopper journey. So we're clearly not going to be all over tv, but what we do do is say, okay, here's, let's get really specific on who our target is and what's their journey to a stall, um, and how do we go out a little bit further where we're going to be on their phone, as they're on their way to the stall and they might see us at a bus stop which is in quite close proximity to there and we hit them a few more times on that journey, and so edging out a little bit, and then again it's kind of having the right tone of voice as you do that.
Speaker 2:I want to ask you a bit more of a broad question. Over sort of the past five years at Merchandise Gourmet, has there been a decision that you made that wildly exceeded your expectation, or maybe one that was you thought was really logical and sort of the best thing to do, but didn't pan out?
Speaker 1:I mean absolutely loads, yeah I, that I, I I actually can't think of. Yeah, I mean I can just think of a long list of decisions that I've made that have been totally wrong, um, and probably a couple that we've got right, I, I guess, which is a really unhelpful answer. But I guess kind of the point behind that is that my biggest learning is that if you try and like nail each decision and get it 100 percent right, it just, it just won't be, like it's so unlikely that it's going to be a slam dunk or you'll get something absolutely right first time. Absolutely right first time.
Speaker 1:So I mean we talk just a lot about iteration and just kind of saying, look, you know, we're gonna get, let's try and get the decisions 80 right and get insight behind it, but that's focused on just getting product out and learning and accepting that it's unlikely. We'll get it bang on first time, like you know again kind of learning from being in a big corporate like Mars. But I mean Mars spend millions of pounds generating insights and years developing innovation before it hits the market and they don't get it right first time. So you know, nobody can actually do that. That's the reality of it, and so I think if you treat decisions a bit more as okay, let's get it 80% there, and then the decision is we're going to execute quickly and we're all going to accept that this is going to be an iteration and we'll continue to improve products and we'll move fast, I think they tend to be the ones that work.
Speaker 2:So it's a sort of indirect answer to your question, I guess and you come across as like you're so energized by brands and you love you know you're so curious about building them. I know you mentioned the popcorn thing, but is there anything you see in the future where you take a step from sort of on the corporate side to becoming a founder again?
Speaker 1:I, I don't know. No, I don't think so. I I always loved the idea of being a founder to a business, um, but as I've gone, like over the years, I've realized I would just be very bad at it. Um, because it goes back to that original point. I'm not, I don't think I could just develop a product from scratch. I'm just not great at doing that. I'm much better when I'm around other like I'm around great people. I can elevate people, but I can't really do it for myself and I really enjoy being part of big teams and kind of being like creating culture and conditions for people to thrive, rather than being the one who's doing it. I think I very quickly get lonely and I don't think I'd be very good at it. Um, I don't think that's where my strengths are, so it's taken me a while to kind of get to that place, but that's the kind of vulnerability in reality for me.
Speaker 2:I'm just thinking now, though. When you look back on your career, you've done different things. Do you think they've all been vital and stacked up with each other to get to where you are now? Or, reflecting back, do you think you would have done things differently at all?
Speaker 1:no, I, I. This is intended to be the opposite of arrogant, although it might come across as arrogant, but I don't. I don't really regret anything that I've done. You know, I sort of mentioned that popcorn thing that we set up, but I'm still really good friends with the person who I did it with and we looked back and said, oh we, why did we not do that?
Speaker 1:Like, but actually the whole like personal learning and journey of that to like okay, this clearly means that I want to do something entrepreneurial all the way through to why did we not do it? And would it actually have been right for me, to that same point, to be a founder? That they all kind of stack up, don't they? And kind of make you who you are? So, yeah, there's a whole bunch of things and that I wish I'd have carried on with longer. Um, I wish I'd have seen through to the end. Um, probably weren't the perfect role for me, like, was I perfect for pet food? No, but I guess all of those things do stack up right and kind of, yeah, it's back to that thing. As long as you're learning from them and you're making yourself better each time, then you, I kind of feel like you, probably shouldn't regret them really I also really like the uh, like you say, the honesty and vulnerability around the founding, being a founder.
Speaker 2:That wasn't right for you, because I speak to a founders and they really struggle with the emotional side of it and you just say, well, you don't have to do this and they think there is. For example, your route is proof that you can find yourself in a very I guess, in entrepreneur sort of experience, but actually be able to do it in a more traditional route. So, yeah, I think it's. It's um, a good way be able to, a good route for people to consider yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think kind of build it. Yes, exactly, I think I'm so impressed by people who can just create a product from scratch, or, you know, I don't know people who are deeply creative where you can say, here's a blank piece of paper, just come up with an amazing marketing idea. I can't do, I just can't do that from scratch. I can build off stuff and I can socialize stuff and you know we can get to good places, but that, yeah, you're right, that's definitely not me and I think there is.
Speaker 2:I think, if you kind of understand that, yeah, I think there is a, there is an interesting route you can take there and is there any traits that you look for, recognize in other people that kind of maybe you had in yourself, that you see them having that ability to go from a employee who maybe starts at the bottom to one day become a managing director? Are there any common traits or themes in their personalities?
Speaker 1:um, I, I think I do think and again, you know, I this is probably not, yes, I'm not, maybe it's a bit controversial, but I mean I I think you have to be relentless and I think you have to be prepared to work really, really hard. Um, I think that is definitely a common trait. Um, yeah, I think things will always go wrong, right, and I think if you, if you can't sort of persevere through that and really bite down, work your way through it, it's, it's tricky. So I think you know that doesn't mean you have to work every single hour that God gives, but I think you have to be prepared to put the, the sacrifice in. Um, and I, I do think that is a common trait.
Speaker 1:Um, because people can have totally different styles and ways of working and it, as I sort of mentioned earlier, it can be very, you know, although I don't love it, I see people who are just very command and control in their style and they're extremely clear on what they expect for people and what the consequences are. They don't do it and that that really jars with me, but it can get you a long way, right. Like, look at, kind of some massive businesses with people like that at the helm of the organization, um, but I think there is a commonality of work ethic well, I think that's the perfect place to wrap up the interview and, honestly, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:I've said this too many times, but such an honour and privilege to have you on, so in awe of your career path and also just the amazing innovations coming out of Merchant Gourmet right now, I'm just such a fan for the product. So, thank you for doing such an amazing job and coming on and sharing your journey. Appreciate it very much. Well, that's so kind of you to say so. Really appreciate it. And thanks for having me on. As always, guys, thank you so much for listening, really appreciate the support and if you guys like it and you're enjoying what you're listening to, please like and subscribe and write a review. We really appreciate it. Again, we'll be back doing this weekly review. We really appreciate it. Um, again, we'll be back doing this weekly and, yeah, if you want to know more about starting a food business, head to wwwjgreenwoodcom. But, guys, as always, thank you and be great.