Recipe for Greatness
Recipe for Greatness
Sourdough, Struggles, and Second Chances | Matthew Jones Journey to Bread Ahead
Matthew Jones is the founder of Bread Ahead bakery. On this episode, Matthew shares his remarkable journey from sleeping on bakery floors to building a global brand that's reshaping how people experience and understand artisan baking.
• Growing up in 1970s Britain surrounded by makers and creators despite the "dire" food scene
• Leaving school at 15 to pursue chef training through a Youth Training Scheme
• Working under Sir Terence Conran and learning from his visionary approach to restaurants
• Transitioning from chef to baker with the founding of Flower Power City Bakery in 1999
• Losing his first bakery business and hitting personal rock bottom due to alcohol addiction
• Finding sobriety and rebuilding his life through baking in 2010
• Starting Bread Ahead with just a market stall at Borough Market
• Creating a revolutionary bakery concept that combines retail with baking education
• Expanding internationally with 11 bakeries across the Middle East
• Evolving as a leader and finding joy in seeing young professionals succeed
• Maintaining focus through exercise, creative pursuits, and staying busy with varied activities
Three, two, one zero and liftoff. Liftoff no.
Jay Greenwood:Hello and welcome to the Recipe for Greatness podcast. I'm your host, joe Greenwood, and in this podcast we meet the founders behind some of the best food and drink brands to tease out the knowledge and skills that they've used to grow their business. Today's guest is someone who's helped shape London's baking scene over the last two decades. Matthew Jones started his career as a chef and went on to launch the much-loved Flower Power City Bakery and, in 2013, founded Bread Ahead, now famous not just for its legendary donuts but for bringing artisan baking and education to the masses From Borough Market to the Middle East. Matthew's built a global baking brand rooted in craft, community and deep love for food. Matthew, welcome to the podcast.
Matthew Jones:Hello, lovely to be here.
Jay Greenwood:So I wanted to jump in and talk about sort of your young years. I know you grew up in a very creative household, surrounded by people who are making, building things, experimenting. So I'm curious, why do you think the sort of well, I guess? Why did the obsession for food come around for you?
Matthew Jones:yeah, I mean really interesting time. I think you know I have such fond memories of my childhood. I grew up in seven oaks, um, which was a sort of a pretty sleepy town really at the time in the in the 70s I was born in 69, so I guess my memories start around 19, sort of 65 and 1975. Um, I mean, the food scene at the time in the uk was on its knees, absolutely dire. It was, you know, pot noodles. It was bachelor's cup of soups. It was, you know, the.
Matthew Jones:The treat for the family was once a year we would go to the steakhouse and have, um, a prawn cocktail and a steak and a frozen black chuck blackcurrant cheesecake. But in the background of that were, you know, everybody. I knew we were just busy, we were making stuff. Everybody did things with their hands. Uh, you know, we were doing crafts, made clothes, my mum always knitting things. My dad was always in the garden shed making stuff. You know, diy, making a pond in the garden, building a brick wall, and I think I just love being busy, you know, I just really love the busyness of life and I was. I gravitated towards the kitchen, you know, the the. It was just my place. I loved it there. I loved being in the kitchen. Even as a youngster I loved making rock cakes and scones and you know I just loved the, the textures and the feeling and the and the warmth and and the eating. Actually I loved eating things.
Jay Greenwood:You know, delicious flavors yeah, and when you were sort of a younger person growing up like, was there a moment where you started thinking like maybe food could be a career? I guess you know we all have like an academic background in the uk where we start off in school. What was your sort of like progression through school like, and when did you maybe think, you know, maybe food might be the route for you instead of maybe maybe continuing academics?
Matthew Jones:yeah, I was never an academic at school, um, I, you know, flunked my o-levels. I, I, you know, I left when I was 15, so immediately after the o-levels, and I had no intention of being, you know, going to university or, you know, having an academic career. And I was very fortunate, however, that I just knew what I wanted to do, which was to go and work as a chef. It was just my thing. I was like, yep, that's going to be my life, you know. So I just embarked on a career. I signed up for at the time what was called a YTS, a youth training scheme, and I got a placement. I was actually really fortunate I got a placement. I was actually really fortunate. I got a placement in a restaurant called thackeray's house in tunbridge wells, which was a proper restaurant. You know the um, the chef there, bruce was, was a proper guy. Brigade of chefs in the kitchen and they made everything. They made ice cream, they made, you know, all the terrines, they made the bread.
Jay Greenwood:Everything was made from scratch amazing and I guess you know, because you kind of go from that sort of placement but becoming, you know, creating a career as a chef is not just quite as simple as that. So what stages did you go from going from that to then maybe progressing? Because, um, I know that you sort of begin your career sort of well, you start to progress your career, so I move up to Mitchins, our kitchens. How do you make that transition from that like YTS scheme to then actually moving up the ladder to other kitchens?
Matthew Jones:Yeah, well, I was. You know the world I was in, even in Thackeray's house it was. Everybody in there was really enthusiastic about food. So, for example, all the chefs and the waiters there, we used to save up every week. We used to put five pounds into a pot and we'd go out to eat Every six months. We went to Simply Nico, we went to the Gavroche, we went to the Waterside Inn, which at the time were just the best restaurants in the world for us. And so I was amazed by that world I, I, you know, and london, you know going to london to go to these sort of michelin style restaurants. When I was 16 or 17 years old, it was, it was had such an impression on me the, the professionalism of the service, the, the detail, the, the plates, the positioning of the food, the, the sharpness of it all.
Jay Greenwood:It was just, I absolutely loved it and one thing I found really fascinating about your story was basically the concept of, you know, chasing this craft, no matter what the cost, and I think even at some points they were like you know, you had to sleep in high park for sort of two weeks to try sort of make this career happen, basically. So I guess what did those years teach? Park for sort of two weeks to try sort of make this career happen, basically.
Matthew Jones:So I guess what did those years teach you about sort of high standard grit and what it takes to succeed well, you know, I think I, looking back on it, I, I was just the only thing I looked at was my career. I just didn't care. So if I had to sleep in the park, I would do so. If I had to sleep on the floor, I would do so. If I had to go without food, I would do so, it didn't matter. I. Just the only thing I thought about was working in that restaurant, getting a job there, getting my head down, getting a year, a year and a half on the cv, and just being a part of that world and I, I would have literally done anything I needed to do and I guess, hearing you talk now and maybe reflecting back now with maybe hindsight, do you think it was still the necessary sort of steps you needed to take.
Jay Greenwood:And I guess the reason I may be framing is maybe younger people might be thinking oh mate, do I need that dedication and grit to sort of get to where I want to get to?
Matthew Jones:Well it was. I think it was necessary to me. You know, I mean, would there have been an easier path? Yes, of course. You know, on reflection, did I need to be quite so extreme? But you know, that was my nature. I, you know, I have always been one to be very extreme and that's followed me in many different areas of my life. You know. So it's. You know, unfortunately, I wasn't able to pick and choose my how, how I approached it. You know, I'm just one of those people I'm. If I go all in, I go all in and there's there's nothing that's going to stop me.
Jay Greenwood:And one thing I found really interesting was you spent a lot of time under Sir Terence Conran. I was curious about any core principles you took from your time there that maybe you still bring forward into today's sort of environment, or any key lessons you took from him that have still stood the pace of time. We now look back and think, oh, that was such a valuable insight.
Matthew Jones:That's a really interesting question, you know, because when I worked for sir terence, I didn't quite realize what he was and I, I was in the kitchen, you know, I was a chef and I was, I was just doing this, but I was, I was told I was making creme brulees or you know what it was, whatever I needed to do, but I, I didn't realize the the depth to his vision.
Matthew Jones:And it's only now, sort of 20, 30 years later, that I realized just how kind of cutting edge he was as a person and and what it takes to do that, what a risk taker he was, what a visionary he was, because there's very few people in london, even like right now in London, there are very few people who take that sort of level of gamble in a restaurant.
Matthew Jones:And he was, I mean, bonkers, really, I mean, but incredibly gifted. And you know, back in the day I just sort of saw this chap who came into the restaurants with his cigar and was very flamboyant, but really he was a pioneer and I guess that must have rubbed off on me because I, you know, I, I just I saw what he did. I didn't know how he did it, but I saw the result and it was just you know that, that wave of restaurants that opened throughout the 90s, the late 80s and the 90s, from quaglinos to mezzo, from le pond de la tour, you know, and it was just extraordinary to be a part of that journey, and one thing I sort of like I guess a thread throughout, like my research came across is just you know that you sort of mentioned as well sort of like the focus once you commit something, commit something.
Jay Greenwood:But also it was the inquisitiveness like I think you were talking about, like you would even just be questioning at these restaurants, like okay, what's the average customer, like, what's the, how many people are coming in, what's the average cover cost and things. So where did that sort of come from for you, that just natural ability to just think beyond just the job, actually just trying to understand actually what's going on basically in these businesses?
Matthew Jones:yeah, I think I wanted to have a deeper understanding, or I wanted to be able to size it. You know I didn't. I was always very inquisitive about how things were, how things worked, about the mechanics of a business, and you know. So, as soon as I could really, I think I started probing, you know, asking those sort of questions about what's yeah, what is the average spend, and I could work it out. You know, I knew how many covers we were doing, and then I would do the math. So, instead of work, I'm like god, this is a, this is not a small business.
Jay Greenwood:You know, this is phenomenal, you know and I want to now go back to sort of 1999 and you know you built an amazing career right and as a chef, like let's you know, you achieved some great things. You were really kind of on that path, I guess, to probably be like your own owner operator at some point, but you decided to, um, take a step and go towards down the baking room and you started flower power. What, what's that signal for you? That you kind of thought, well, maybe I could do something a little bit different here and sort of approach business in a different way instead of just being a chef yeah, um there, well, I had the opportunity to to run the bakery for john to road in mezzo.
Matthew Jones:So there was a standalone bakery at the time on wardour street. So I ran that it was a pastry kitchen and a bakery making sourdough bread and, you know, then we started supplying local restaurants. Um, I got involved with that. I put, well, I started, and you know, then we started supplying local restaurants. I got involved with that. Well, I started that whole, you know process of starting the wholesale business. And then I thought, my God, this is actually a phenomenal business here. You know, this is, you know, and the margins are really good. You know, it's just, you know it's much of a very simple business.
Matthew Jones:I love the simplicity of baking early. It's one shift, a very simple business. I love the simplicity of baking early it's one shift and you go home, you know, whereas being a restaurant chef is, you basically never go home. So I just like the dynamic of it as a work and being a part of that world in baking. I love the early mornings or the overnight shifts. I loved it. So I just decided to take the plunge and to take a loan and to look for a bakery. I mean, I did it all the wrong way around. I sort of left my job, took a loan, the loan ran out, then looked for a bakery. Then by the time I got the bakery had nothing left. But somehow or another, with just brute force, I made it work. It was hard.
Jay Greenwood:I I mean, that was really hard and I guess maybe to give some context, maybe from like what it was like. So was it basically just again sleeping on that bakery floor trying to get things to work? And then maybe what would be good is, after like we talk about that, then maybe give context of what sort of the size of flower power got to like towards the end. Yeah, so I started off on my own then, sort of the size of flower power got to like towards the end.
Matthew Jones:Yeah, so I started off on my own. Then, sort of about a couple of weeks, in employed one guy, jason Kinniston, who I still know, he's in Australia now with a bakery. Then I just employed a bunch of guys, so there were four of us within probably six months. I'm still in touch with a few of them. Then we started doing farmer's markets. Then we started doing farmer's markets, then we did more farmer's markets. Then I had a little wholesale round that I used to do. I got a van. I used to do all the deliveries myself. I was working 20 hours a day. I did that.
Matthew Jones:So for about four years we stayed in the original premises, which was in Hoxton Street Back in the day, the top end of Hoxton Street, which is a rough bit of London actually. It was 500 square meters, so tiny space. I grew it and then I took the plunge and took a big industrial unit, by which time I had about 60 staff, kept growing the business aggressively. You know, I was always, you know, good at doing that. And then, yeah, I mean about 10 years into the business got approached by an investor, which seemed like an amazing idea at the time. However, that didn't work out for a number of reasons. Um, and ended up I actually ended up walking away from the business. Um, which was kind of devastating. Actually, it was in 2010. I had, I had walked away.
Jay Greenwood:I had to start all over again and I guess looking back to that period and you know the business was obviously doing really great, very successful, when you look back at that time, are there any lessons you take from that chapter? Um, and I guess maybe you know you mentioned there the investor, so how do you think about sort of getting investors involved and maybe the how lessons you learn from that as well?
Matthew Jones:well, it's not the path that I want to go down again. I mean, you know, I think there's there's different business models and now I'm, you know, sort of older and wiser. You know there's. I guess there's no right way to do any business is there, but you know there's. There is a, a lot of people who have got an exit always in mind. So what they would do is take on an investor. They'll scale the business quickly and with an exit in mind. So what they would do is take on an investor. They'll scale the business quickly and with an exit in mind. And I'll call this out straight away. Look, this is not my plan. I have no interest in an exit. I've what I've discovered.
Matthew Jones:For me, baking is my life. I want to be a baker. I want to own a bakery business. It's not just a business. It creates money. It's the way I live my life, which I think is a fundamental difference than taking, you know, venture capital or, you know, expanding a business aggressively and selling it, which is generally, you know, more often than not doesn't work. Um, so, for me, right now, I'm in a very, very happy place where I've funded the business from cash flow. There are two owners, which is myself and my wife, and we are very happy where we are.
Jay Greenwood:Thank you very much and I know sort of in that period there was, um, you saw, I think you've mentioned there was a bit of like a rockiness in terms of like sort of your growth, in terms of like how you're feeling about stuff and sort of business. How was like, what was that period like for you? And I guess, when you were, going through that. How did you like muster up the willpower and the courage to be like I'm going to start again from nothing and build this up?
Matthew Jones:yeah, well, we're going back a bit really. So if you go back to my chef days, I mean I was quite a different person. So when I was 15 years old, I was immersed in this world of very hardcore chefs who used to really the. The lifestyle that I grew into was you basically work 18 hours a day and then you have a day off when you smash yourself to bits down the pub. And that's what I did and I absolutely loved it. I loved every single minute of that lifestyle In my 20s. It was just rocket fuel. I couldn't get enough, and you know it was.
Matthew Jones:I look back at it with only the fondest of memories. You know it was. You know know it was down the pub, it was the nightclubs it was going out to somehow or another. You know we used to end a service when I worked at quaglinos. You'd end a service on a friday night. You'd go to the ministry of sound and you just go straight back into work. I mean, mean it was. You do that sometimes three nights a week. It was just I mean it just sends shivers down my spine.
Matthew Jones:I think the big difference between me and a lot of other people out there who were doing it at the time is that I didn't stop. So you know, I'm an addict. I am, you know, a certified addict and I had an addict. I am, you know, a a certified addict and I I had to stop. So you know my, my real sort of drug of choice I suppose you would say it was alcohol and I abused it. Somehow I managed to hold onto a career for most of the time, and I was was, you know. But the more I got older, you know, as I got into my 30s, then the cracks really started to appear. You know that you just can't hold it together anymore. And the the real sort of, I suppose the crux of that was when I lost flower power. I just broke you literally. I broke something had to give, and it me, and I just literally couldn't do it anymore. So that's when I stopped, I stopped drinking, and that was actually the pivotalnd of February in 2010. And a very key date really in my life and I'll never forget that. And really quickly my life changed. You know, I still had the same skills, I was still able to bake, but I could think. Clearly, you know, I got my head together.
Matthew Jones:I spent six months on a mate's farm up in northfield farm in uh, leicester, just outside leicester, in rutland, up that way and I sort of dug trenches on the farm and did a bit of baking and run a tea shop and all sorts of things. And I then came back to london, shared a bakery with a friend of mine who's still a good mate now actually and slept on his floor. And so I went down and did that again and rebuilt um, started with a market stall at borough market and I started from the ground up. So it was, you know, to really sort of yeah, that's the sort of abridged version, but you know, that's really what I did. Then, when I had enough money, I took a premises at Borough. That took me about a year and a half. Then we built a school, then I started to employ a few people.
Matthew Jones:So then it sort of happened quite quickly after that because you know, I'd had a lot of business experience from having flower power, so I kind of knew what to do from a practical point of view. But the I had this sort of real superpower. Now there's that I wasn't drunk all the time. So, wow, I could turn up for meetings on time. I could be really consistent in what I did. I was just always there. I was all over it. So I did probably go into overdrive, but that's worked really well for me, you know.
Matthew Jones:So baking for me is much more than just a business. It healed my life. It enabled me to live again, which I wasn't living, jay, I was broken. I mean like really, really broken, but the one pillar I had left was this baking skill and I just love it. You know, even now I don't. You know I mean good days and bad days, but a lot of good days. Now I've had a run of a lot of good days. You know, if I'm feeling a little bit miserable, I just go and roll some croissants for a couple of hours you know what I mean and it seems to sort everything out, and then I just leave it behind me. Do some cleaning, go and do some washing up, go and change some wheels on some trolleys in the bakery, just get busy. It really helps. It really does help on so many levels. No-transcript. You know, it's just a great thing to do that's incredible.
Jay Greenwood:And I guess one thing I want to sort of go back on is I guess you meant you mentioned that sort of some of the cracks started to form in your sort of like early 30s and things. I guess maybe one thing that comes to mind is was it just because I get the impression just the the nature of your hard work is just a level beyond, like most people? So I guess it was the hard work that kind of you were demonstrating, sort of covering those cracks for so long, and I guess when it then reflects to the sort of next stage of founding bread ahead, because it just that grit and determination of hard work that was unhindered by sort of any alcohol that then just drove it forward to just achieve what it has now yeah, I think it was exactly that.
Matthew Jones:It's just a really clear vision, I think one of the things with food as well in for me, you know, in my experience, the best restaurants and the best bakeries, they just do a couple of things and they just do them really, really well, you know, and the, the businesses that I always looked up to, were people like you know, like monmouth coffee, they just do coffee and they just do it really really well and that's it, and there's just nothing really more to talk about. It's lovely, it's so refreshing, you know, to have these. You know they're not chasing, they're just doing, and that's what I want to be. And do you know the business really, that we're founded on? We do lovely sourdough bread, we make lovely donuts and we do pastries. We also teach baking, you know. So there's four sort of strands to it. It's quite simple. I mean we could do a lot more, but we don't, and it's just lovely, just sort of not doing things, you know it's.
Jay Greenwood:I find that really, really pure and by going back to sort of like, maybe like 2012, when you were thinking about sort of how, what you do next, what? How did the idea of, like, I guess, an immersive bakery experience where you had the shop but then also the teaching element because I guess now it kind of seems a bit obvious because loads of people try to do that, but back in 2012, this was like groundbreaking, innovative, to sort of combine the two how did you sort of think about it and, I guess, go and actually execute it and be confident that it was going to work yeah, so the you.
Matthew Jones:So I used to work a lot on the market stall and it became very apparent there was a lot of unanswered questions out there. So you would have customers who would come along and say what's gluten, what's this, how do you do this? What is long fermentation? What's sourdough? What's focaccia, how is it made? So when I was working on a market stall selling bread, you'd just get these questions all the time.
Matthew Jones:So it was quite obvious there was just this real hunger for knowledge from people. I think there was just you know, and there was nobody doing it and I just thought, gosh, this would be a really great sort of additional thing to have as a part of a business, just to enrich that customer journey thing. To have as a part of a business, just to enrich that customer journey so they can actually come into the bakery, into a working bakery, and experience baking. I mean, what we've done really is scale down our recipes. So we've kind of extracted these little pockets of knowledge from an industrial bakery and put them into a domestic setting so people can really experience what we do at home, but just on a much smaller scale. The biology and the chemistry is the same. It's just a smaller version, so it's just worked really really well.
Jay Greenwood:And when you go back to because I remember how iconic Bread Ahead was in Borough Market when did you start to think about sort of growing the business beyond maybe just borough market? What was that kind of thought and guess? Did you go for the aggressive expansion style like you did with um flower power?
Matthew Jones:um, I guess, yeah, I'd always wanted a bit more. You know, that was for for sure. You know, I I liked the idea of having more than one location. You know, I'm not a single location operator. So so we started looking around town. Um, you know, and I've always liked different bits of London. I like Soho, I like, you know, chelsea I used to work here and it's uh. So I just started looking around and the growth happened quite organically. I mean, we, we got approached by landlords. We just, you know, we followed sort of our noses really, and it just, we just, it wasn't a, there wasn't a tactical plan of right. We're going to sort of segment London and have a representative here and blah, blah, blah. You know, it wasn't like that at all.
Jay Greenwood:It was just like let's just chat to a few people and sort of see you know where this takes us, I mean, and that seems to have worked very well and when you, I guess was there like a signal when you were sort of in borough market and you know, with um bread ahead, was there any signals you were getting from people that you're like we've actually caught on something here, like any feedback or something, and maybe said like right, this is really resonating with people and they really like what we're doing here?
Matthew Jones:yeah, I mean, we, we got a lot of very good press from day one. Um, we, I mean about a year after opening, we, we did a feature with tom carriage about he's like hero dishes and he came to the bakery and had one of our sea salt caramel honeycomb donuts and it blew us out the water. I mean, it was just like, literally, it just took us to the next level. Um, we, we had loads of good press, we, and what was very apparent, we had a big following from the middle east. That was always for our donuts, they, they, you know they. We were just on the radar of a lot of influencers. We were good at Instagram and Tik TOK I've always had a presence on there and the the donuts especially got a lot of attention. So then we I mean there's so much happened during we went into the pandemic. Um, that was a for us to feel like.
Matthew Jones:Like everybody, the first six weeks was very uncertain All over the place, and during the pandemic we actually got approached by a family from the Middle East to open a bakery there in Jeddah, in Saudi, and we were like, okay, great. And then we got approached by Dubai Expo. So we did that and we opened in Saudi. Then we were like, okay, great. And then we got approached by dubai expo, so we did that and we opened in saudi. Then we opened.
Matthew Jones:So, international, we now have 11 bakeries across the middle east. We are also opening this year in the philippines, in manila. Um, we have a very ambitious partner there. We are in very advanced discussions with a landlord in New York currently that we'll go and open ourselves as a baker, as a bread ahead. So yeah, I mean so really we gained a massive international audience and that was through social media. You know, I think partly you know, being London, because london has so many visitors being in a space like borough market, that is, it's really an international location. It's on the. You know, if there's 10 things in london you must see, it's one of them and it really, you know, to wow.
Jay Greenwood:That journey has been extraordinary and I'm thinking about your sort of role now and how it's changed over time, because I get the impression that sort of in flower power. At those early stages you were doing everything you mentioned, like 20 hours a day, deliveries, mopping, baking, probably doing absolutely everything. How different has your sort of role changed from um back then to sort of where it is now? You mentioned all that expansion internationally, some different places how different is your life now?
Matthew Jones:Yeah, it's unrecognizable. I mean I'm still the same guy. I mean I love working, so I love getting up early. I mean I'm one of those people I get up early when I'm on holiday I get up at 5 o'clock, yeah. So I've got that bug. I love being busy.
Matthew Jones:I think I've been very fortunate in the past, really A couple of years. I've attracted some really good senior staff, some reliable people who have you know who I trust in the business to run various aspects of it, commercially and operationally. So that's been, you know, a game changer for me, because it is very hard to find the right people and at the moment I do have them, you know, and I will look after those people. I've learned the value and I'm probably less reactionary. I mean, you know, I've got a little bit wiser, so I think I take my time to make decisions less reactionary. I mean, you know, I've a little bit older, a little bit wiser, so I think I I take my time to make decisions, whereas before it could be a little bit, I could shoot from the hip, you know, as a sort of 30 year old man. You know we, we just behave differently. So it's you know, I think you know I look back at some of the things I used to do and I think, gosh, now I just behave differently. And I think confidence as well in growing as any business owner.
Matthew Jones:I didn't come from a family of business people. My mum and dad were very humble workers and it does take a long time to build the confidence to stand in a room. I mean, I did a presentation the other day in lisbon in front, in front of a bunch of people like 100 people about the um international element of of the company and I was really comfortable doing that. I really enjoyed it actually. I thought really I felt really proud, you know, and but to be that person standing on a little podium in front of a whole group of very professional, articulate people, that takes a lot of training and a lot of life experience. So it's, you know, I couldn't have done that when I was 30. I would have felt really uncomfortable. Now I don't. I feel quite just natural doing those things now I don't.
Jay Greenwood:I feel quite just natural doing those things. Are there any key lessons you've taken from hiring great people or things that you look for, that maybe things you used to maybe before look at people and they didn't serve you well, but now the you know when you look to hire someone, the key things that really set someone apart and you actually think.
Matthew Jones:Then you maybe know that they're going to be a much better fit for you and the company well, it's very hard because you don't, you never really know until somebody's on the job, and it's well, I suppose. Now it's, it's not what people say, it's what they do, you know, and because you can, you can be blinded by what people say, and it's, it's not about that, it's about what they do, you know, and what they consistently do. That's the real trick and spotting that you know. I think one of the things actually, you know, is on my mind at the moment is something I find really refreshing and because I think of my own experience in my 30s.
Matthew Jones:I was chaos.
Matthew Jones:You know, jay, I'll call it out, I was a nightmare, I was, I was all over the place as a person and I take huge sort of gratitude really in seeing young professionals, men and women, in their 30s especially, and I think, because it's part of my own healing really, and watching professional people flourish.
Matthew Jones:It's so inspiring to me to see that I'm, I love to see that because it's you know, there's one guy I know he runs the gym I go to, he owns it, he's the owner there and he's, you know, he's young, he's in his 30s and he's and it's like everything I wanted to be when I was 30 and I wasn't I because I couldn't be, because I was I had this stupid, you know, sort of habit of just getting drunk all the time. Um, and thank god I've got rid of that, you know, because it is. It changed my life and it's so refreshing to see, you know, these adults growing up and being mature, being responsible, running a business, being a great manager, being a, being a really a successful person, because, you know, it really gives me hope actually to to see that because I I went about it all the wrong way and it might look now, as people look at me from the outside, they still probably think oh yeah, you've always been like that. Trust me, I wasn't.
Jay Greenwood:I grew into it and it was really uncomfortable at times that's gonna set me up, actually, for my next like two questions is, um, I guess if you were thinking about you know the core principles and like foundations that kind of got you to where you are today, and maybe if you had to start again, like what were the like, what are the core things that you think is like you know, that drive success for you and, I guess, for in general, for people, like the core things that people need to focus on well, you've got to.
Matthew Jones:You've got to be a master of your game. You have to be, you've got to be. You know, you've got to earn it. You've got to really go deep into it. You've got to believe in it. You've got to believe a hundred percent in what you, what you represent, and it doesn't matter what that thing is, you know it could be a hairdresser, or being a making clothes or or baking. You've got to believe in it, literally to the core of your being. You've got to just, you know, you've got to be in love with it and as I am with with my industry, you know I, I absolutely worship it and yeah, and and be prepared for the long haul and you mentioned that as well.
Jay Greenwood:You're like in your 30s. You're absolutely chaos. Now what I guess habits or systems do you put in place to keep you? You know, like you say, that that you know calm person. Now, is there anything you do now to keep you focused and yeah, I exercise a lot.
Matthew Jones:Um, I walk a lot, exercise a lot, go to the gym, have a personal trainer, do lots of stretching, do pil Pilates classes, paint, try and learn the piano badly as many things as I can. Yeah, travel, I do loads of stuff. You know, I have a really sort of broad spectrum of things I do in my life. I like making things. You know I still have a little hot glue gun and make things with sticks with my four year old son and stick things together and, you know, do little handy jobs and paint things, yeah. So I like to stay busy.
Jay Greenwood:Amazing. Well, I think that's the perfect place to um wrap up this interview, and first I just want to say thank you so much for everything you've done. In the baking industry. I like, when I was starting up my business, I went to um bread ahead and it was massive inspiration for me to see someone doing one singular thing, just with perfect execution. So, um, yeah, thank you for that. And also, just your story is such an inspiration and it's, in most places, being inspired me. So, yeah, just thank you so much for coming on and sharing it it's a pleasure.
Matthew Jones:I hope it's um. I hope it's helpful. If you're a listener, I hope it helps you in some little way in your journey as always, guys.
Jay Greenwood:thank you so much for listening, really appreciate the support and if you guys like it and you're enjoying what you're listening to, please like and subscribe and write a review. We'd really appreciate it Again. We'll be back doing this weekly. And, yeah, if you want to know more about starting a food business, head to wwwjgreenwoodcom. No-transcript.