Recipe for Greatness
Recipe for Greatness
Food, Purpose, and Mental Health: Inside Will Howard's Commercial Journey
Will Howard shares his journey from hospitality worker to Managing Director of GrowUp Farms, revealing how purpose-driven leadership and vulnerability create stronger businesses and teams.
• Started career with a passion for food, working in hospitality before transitioning to FMCG roles at L'Oreal and PepsiCo
• Found his authentic leadership style at purpose-driven companies like Red Bull, Innocent and Ella's Kitchen
• Practices vulnerability by openly discussing mental health challenges with his team
• Maintains mental wellbeing through consistent morning exercise routines
• Joined GrowUp Farms after being impressed by both the team and product quality
• Explains how vertical farming creates perfect growing conditions without pesticides in the space of "three double-decker buses"
• Balances aggressive commercial growth targets with sustainable business practices
• Uses technology including AI and machine learning to optimise crop production
• Emphasises communication with context as essential for effective leadership
• Advocates normalising mental health support: "If you cut your finger, you put a plaster on it. It's normal the other way"
If you want to know more about starting a food business, head to www.jgreenwood.com.
Three, two, one zero and liftoff, Liftoff. Hello and welcome to the Recipe for Greatness podcast. I'm your host, Jay Greenwood, and in this podcast we're going to introduce you to the people behind some of the best food and drink brands in the UK, to understand how they got to where they are and see if we can tease out any knowledge and skills that they've used. Today's guest is Will Howard. He's the Managing Director and Chief Commercial Officer of Grow Up Farms.
Speaker 3:Grow Up Farms is a leading UK vertical company focused on sustainable farming methods. They grow salad indoors 365 days a year with their award-winning brand Unbelievable sold in the UK's biggest supermarkets.
Speaker 1:Will has held senior roles at major brands, including Innocent Drinks, Ella's Kitchen, where he helped scale the business to over 80 million in sales. A strong advocate of sustainability, he's driven on the belief that business should be a force of good, blending commercial success with clear social purpose. Will welcome to the podcast. Thanks very much, Jay.
Speaker 2:Nice to meet you properly.
Speaker 1:So I wanted to start this conversation and maybe go back to Will as a younger person and I know've built an amazing career in fmcg and worked for incredible brands that I've just mentioned in the introduction. But when you look back to you as a younger person, were there any sparks or any influences that made you think that fmcg was a world you wanted to get into?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm not sure if it was fmcg to start with, but it was definitely passion about food and drink. And I remember mum used to go out in the evening and dad would try and cook and we made this spaghetti bolognese and he always encouraged me to be a bit better and in the end I did the cooking and I think that started a passion about always enjoying flavor and enjoying cooking, but just that ownership of it. And then school wasn't exactly my favorite part of my life. Right, some people love it, I didn't.
Speaker 2:And I think between the two I got really interested in food, worked in bars and restaurants and then I went to study hotel and catering and then I went off to america and I there was a cocktail barman and a waiter and just I did a couple of years and I should have maybe not done a couple of years, but that was. That was where it all really started, a passion for food and drink. And I came back and I ran a cocktail bar in Old Street for a bit and I think that was a really interesting part of my life. And there came a point where I was like I think you need to get a bit serious and I got a job as a sales rep and that's where my life became FMCG and the classical training that we got and um, and things just moved for me.
Speaker 2:And you know, l'oreal was actually my second job and that was what an incredible company to start at. The learning you get. We're spending 30 million pounds launching this new mascara and I quickly, like after about three and a half years, I moved to PepsiCo and I think that's when food and fmcg and that would be what I call classic fmcg, right, um, and that's that's really where my journey started and I was quite lucky that pepsico was there, that l'oreal was there and the rest, the rest is history so I just want to dig into sort of what took you to america instead of jumping straight into maybe a career that some people do, because you mentioned sort of the qualifications you did in hospitality.
Speaker 1:So what made you sort of go to America and just, was it just traveling the bug? What was it?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure. I was very brave when I was at school and, let's be honest, I was going out with a girl and we could go and work in any restaurant or bar as part of our course in the uk and she was like no, no, I found this, this place, we're going to go to america, and that was it. And we went to america. We went to nantucket and martha's vineyard and I was really lucky and I had an amazing time and I had the most amount of money I could have ever possibly earned and it was really great doing really good things with really good food and great people. Then we split up and I went back again and and that was where it started and, um, it was just, I think it was just like really just being, I'd say, being on your own in a different country, learning new things and meeting loads of new people, and that's that's where that was just part of the journey and was there any temptation to stay in the hospitality industry?
Speaker 1:you mentioned the sort of bar and old street. Was there any sense? Because I know quite a few people once they get into hospitality it's really hard to get out because they fall in love with it. So was there any like trigger that made you think, oh, actually, I'm going to sort of maybe go down the more professionalized route of, say, the l'oreals and the pepsi go um like the hours, like I worked at nobu for a bit as well.
Speaker 2:It's really lucky. I don't know how I've fallen into some of these jobs, right, um, and I worked there. And now you get home at like two in the morning and then everyone knows who works in hospitality. You're back up again and you're going and you're like, can you do a triple today? And then you're back home again and then monday's your night, or you know, monday's your day off and you're like, let's go, like it's my saturday and everyone's like boy, do you know? I think over time you have to be incredibly dedicated and have huge stamina and, as much as I wanted to believe that I did, like me, being tired is my worst and it doesn't functionally work together. So that's where that's what one of the triggers that probably meant let's go somewhere a bit. I don't know, normal is wrong word, but a bit more steady state, yeah.
Speaker 1:So interesting. I was actually speaking to Matthew yesterday. He's the founder of Breadhead, but he built his career in Michelin-star restaurants and kitchens and he said he used to work 18 hours a day and then sometimes go out in the evening, because that's what they used to do, and then go straight into work and I thought how on earth can any human do that? It's just ludicrous, yeah it's definitely a tough industry to keep up those hours.
Speaker 2:I agree, totally Fair play to everyone who's in it. You know that's good on you and thanks.
Speaker 1:And I want to then sort of look in at your career progression. So, like the Innocent Drinks, nella's Kitchen, you've kind of become part of companies that have sort of a clear mission and I'm guessing what? Was there a point in your sort of journey through these companies where you decided that you wanted to work in a company that had a clear purpose and a focus on what they were trying to do?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think it happens gradually and for some people it probably happens immediately or it's very much built into their DNA. That having children around the time like when the girls came into my life like totally changes the way you think about things, and I think that could be quite a standard answer. For many people. It's entirely true, um, but just thinking about, wow, they're here for longer than I am, what should I be doing then? Then, if I think about it like, I remember working at red Bull and we're walking down the street and someone said you know when you made it, when you're seeing your product on the street like rubbish and you're like you're right, but that's such a wrong answer.
Speaker 2:And then another one that just springs to mind is Mark, my boss at Ella, ella's great friend, like said one day do you know that astronauts get really emotional when they see the earth shot and it's like why? And he's like because they realize that's all you've got, just that one planet. So I don't know, that's cheesy. The girls came into my life and it's like revolutionized it. But having a bit of purpose really gives you the energy to like what you're trying to achieve and just working for a company that just wants to bosh out products.
Speaker 1:Make money is a bit soulless, and when you find somewhere like innocent or red bull or any of the others, I think it allows you to achieve a lot more, because the tough times are less tough, because you know why you're doing it and you believe in it, and that's really important and I heard in one of the conversations you had about maybe some companies where you were working and maybe you didn't feel like they were the best fit for you and you maybe didn't really fit and so as you've grown and you know scale within these companies, has it influenced your leadership style, about how you sort of approach, um, how you lead people?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think it definitely has. Like the first couple of companies I worked in, I don't think I was my genuine self and the way I'd laugh about it would be, my smart casual was not their smart casual and that's no bad, but it's like I didn't quite fit and therefore I wasn't quite myself and I don't think you can be a good leader if you're not genuine. And very quickly, at Red Bull, my fiancee who's now my wife was like you've changed, like you're very different in how you are, you're more relaxed, you're more natural, you've got more energy, you look at people in the eyes and you're sort of just a bit more you and you're a bit cheekier and and I think I was just being just me and I think I've been pulling that through and trying to be that- I don't know I don't want to use that corporate words but like trying to just be authentic.
Speaker 2:But I think that's trying too hard.
Speaker 1:It's just want to be me and be genuine and that is the best version of me and it's interesting because, um, I was listening to some information as well and you sort of mentioned how about sort of leadership and having some vulnerability in sort of how you lead people. I'm curious, like, is that approach you take and is that actively day-to-day you kind of have to proactively encourage within yourself when you're sort of trying to lead people? And one thing I found really interesting as well was sort of the walks as well. You're very much of a walker when you sort of have meetings rather than this is that?
Speaker 2:is that something you just introduced and you find there's a better sort of style to help people along in their journeys? Yes, definitely, I hope it helps them as much as it helps me. Um, like, vulnerability is really uh. There's a moment that clicked for me, so like ella's kitchen, I think.
Speaker 2:I stood up and we used to do these things called what's inside me. I stood up and I said I'm terrified of heights and I was sharing everything. And you know, I said, if I just put my hand up, like if you all put your hand up, I'll do a skydive with you. And 10 people put their hand up. We did a skydive and I thought that was being vulnerable. Yeah, woohoo, you're scared of heights. And that was a very cool moment. And then, as I actually didn't feel very true, so I did it again and I talked about mental health and I talked about some of my struggles and the challenges in front of the whole company and it was a real like it was hard and it was at that moment that you're like, oh, that's what it is. I'm actually just telling my story rather than telling the story that I think I need to tell, and that vulnerability sort of shone through and mental health became a really good conversation at Ella's Kitchen through the support of others.
Speaker 2:But that vulnerability, even today, I do struggle with a bit. You know, when you're having a really tough time at work and you're leading a team of people, how much of that do you choose to show and how much of it do you not show? And, wanting to be genuine, I think that's quite tricky to come in and be like everything's great and everyone can see in my face and they say I have a leaky face, that it's not so. I think you just have to be like I'm having a tough day today, actually, you know. And then, whether it was you know, I'm actually finding this quite a tricky moment because we're not delivering on the things that we said we would, and I appreciate that's impacting all of you. So I think it's a fine balance. I definitely don't get it right every time and I'm trying really hard and I'll often think on my very short walk from Euston Station to our office I'm like, how do you want to be about what's going on in your head today?
Speaker 1:And just trying to talk to myself about it. That's amazing. I know you're a big passionate about mental health and I guess do you try implement that into, like the corporate culture. When you're you're in there, when you're sort of such a uh important role within the company, do you try and make mental health sort of just a big part of the conversation. How do you get to implement into the culture?
Speaker 2:yeah, we try. Um, I know ellis, we we made a very big play about mental health, especially around lockdown, and we had lots of mental health first aiders and we led that. We were really proud of the way that we demystified mental health and I think like 90 of all of the hundred people said there's no stigma around mental health at ellis. That's phenomenal, right that you feel that you can talk about it as you move to grow up like it's exactly the same. There's no stigma.
Speaker 2:But we're in a scale-up phase and I think people just don't give it as much time as they want to. But we have four mental health first aiders. We talk about it, you know, frequently and I know you know several people have talked to me very confidentially and I really like that, um, so we do continue it. I do think we could all talk more about mental health. I'm not sure the world is a bit busy and a bit fraught at the minute and I think people are definitely struggling, but I don't think that I don't think we had give it the time and the space to be able to talk about it as much as we could.
Speaker 1:Me personally, same yeah, couldn't agree more. And you mentioned that some of your sort of mental health challenges and things. Are there any sort of strategies or anything you put in place to help your productivity and focus or just maybe feeling better about things? Is there anything you've implemented to your day-to-day strategy that helps you?
Speaker 2:yes, definitely, and, um, some people who listen to this would just laugh. But, um, I think mark and I my old boss we used to talk, and I do now, and then we actually encouraged each other to just chuck it into a conversation and it was awkward to start with. How's your mental health? You're like whoa. That was just one thing to just remind each other that it was okay to talk about it, and I do that with some of the team. We talk about it.
Speaker 2:I go to the gym every morning at six to do a crossfit class five days a week and everyone's like you're crazy and I'm like, but it's my one moment of the day where I go and challenge myself and I have the space to go and be and enjoy and push myself and it allows me to go through the rest of the day in a far better way and that's a routine. I know that monday comes. I know that. I know all of these things happen and I've built that in and I'm religious about making it happen because it's really important for my, my well-being and my time. Um, one is about trying to talk about it as much as you can, but definitely giving yourself the space, whatever that happens to be let's touch on um grow up farms about sort of what then made that, what attracted you to join that company.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's still operating in the food world but it's a very different company with so many different sort of pillars to it. What attracted you to it and sort of how? And maybe give a bit of context about what Grow Up Farms is doing, because I think it's just absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, I'll just start a little bit. Before, like at Ella's, I'd worked for a really long time and hoped to be able to be the person that could lead Ella's Kitchen. And I got there and at the same time Grow Up, was in a conversation and I was fascinated by the team and by the people and the conversations that we've had and I couldn't not think about it's probably like dating, you know when you can't not think about the person.
Speaker 2:You're like really sick and I, I couldn't, I couldn't, I can. What changed my mind? As I bought the salad that was being grown by the team grow up and did a blind taste test with my kids and, like with some family, I just put two bowls of the same product out on the side and we're like one of these I reckon I could work for. And that was it. And, um, nine out of the ten people that were there were like that salad tastes really good, it tastes like salad. And I was like, oh shit, that's that's grow up. So, after quite a lengthy amount of time, I joined the team and that was it. What we're trying to do to change the world by growing better is our purpose. I really resonate with that. It doesn't just have to be about salad, it can be about people or categories. And then when you get into some of the the, just the sheer scale that we're able to achieve and the way that we go about it, I could bore the hell out of you and tell you about it.
Speaker 1:That's why I came, because there's not a moment that's dull and everything is possible when you're growing it in the way that we are and I just want to how do you balance because obviously you're in charge of like the commercial aspect of things how do you balance those commercial goals? Because you know you, I know you did it very aggressively at ellis kitchen just sort of growing the business. Growing the business, how do you do it with a company where it's got such strong foundations and sort of the sustainability side? Are they ever conflicting with each other?
Speaker 2:and how do you do it with a company where it's got such strong foundations and sort of the sustainability side, are they ever conflicting with each other and how do you manage it? Yeah, um, I guess for us it's not. It's not conflicting because we're we're here to grow. Like, the salad category is about 1.3 billion to 1.4 billion. It's huge, and when I joined we'd sold less than a million. This, you know, tripled the business and this year we'll do it again something along that lines.
Speaker 2:But so we do need to scale because we need to build. We've got plans to build the rest of the farm out and then build farm two, farm three and farm four. And when we when comes with that scale comes commercial success too. But, um, the trickier part for us at the minute is, you know, we need to grow significantly. We're growing in loads of retailers. You know we've got the strongest repeat rates I've seen for a bagged salad in the category. We're overtaking one of the you know, the incumbents, let's call them that. We're doing all these things. So it's about balancing growth and I think the key here is sustainable growth.
Speaker 2:Like there's always the temptation to like turbocharge you know, let's, let's do this and let's do that, and then you're like it's really hard to live it, to deliver it well, specifically for the retailer and the consumer, and then do it again. And we're trying to build sustainably and most of the time we get it right. And sometimes we're trying to build sustainably and most of the time we get it right, and sometimes we're like, ouch, that hurt. That's a bit of honesty. But yeah, we're growing sustainably, if that's a good enough answer.
Speaker 1:That's good and I'm curious about maybe I'll ask you this one so for you, like you've mentioned, sort of the sort of drive for maybe a company, but like for you personally, what do you think about success like? Is it because you mentioned there's some other aspects? Like red bull is maybe just like seeing the probably made it one of the products there for you, like what for you is like personal success for you?
Speaker 2:wow, personal success for me I don't want to give a really cheesy answer yeah, um, like, seeing the business do well, yeah, seeing the team do really really well, that's success for me personally. Obviously, the business succeeding is personally good as well, like, that's, that's why, that's why I'm here and that's what all of us are trying to achieve. I don't think I've given you a good enough answer, to be honest.
Speaker 1:Maybe you asked me again at the end and I guess as well the drive as well, to work for such purpose-driven companies. I think we kind of touched on that a little bit, but what do you think is that's driving you to work for these companies with such strong purpose and mission?
Speaker 2:I think they're more powerful, I think they've got a greater chance of succeeding because everyone is behind a common purpose and that's why there's so many brilliant, purpose-driven businesses, challenger brands that are now, you know, winning in the marketplace, that are being bought by bigger fmcg companies. That's because everyone believes in what we're doing and that's alignment, and everyone's everyone's just centered and ready and that's why we're doing it and it helps you overcome all the hurdles and go through the tough times as well as the good times very well.
Speaker 1:Now I want to dig into some more career aspects and this is coming from a selfish aspect of me, actually just wanting to learn from you, from all the stuff you've done. So if you look back at your career and maybe the journey, is there any specific moments, decisions, I guess, that maybe were an inflection point that you sort of really changed the trajectory of your career or maybe the journey that you're going on?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think the definite time when I joined ella's and it was a big change in my lifestyle and innocent was incredible, so it's no reference to that but I think I started to treat myself a little bit better. I realized that it was okay not to be the super confident person. Um, you know, vulnerability came later, but like self-sabotage you know I'm not quite good enough at that oh my god, they're so good maybe and I thought, learned that some of those things are okay and some of those things you need to overcome and, um, and that's probably when I started managing myself better. So when I joined ellis, I used to go for a run every day. I'd get in the office early and we worked.
Speaker 2:We were in this brilliant like place in a village just outside of henley and I just used to go and run and get lost and just come back and I'd be about an hour and sometimes I was late for meetings. I got really lost, but I'd run all the time and actually combining thinking about me as a professional person but also actually like managing my own physical, mental health, combining the two of those there was a shift in my stature, the way I talked to people, the way I engaged but my energy levels went through the roof and I think that, just looking after the whole, you was a really big, big part of me just shifting forward several steps.
Speaker 1:What do you think it takes to be successful in a leadership sort of commercial role? What are the core skills and foundations that you need to be good at that job but then also succeed in it and continue to sort of make an impact?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question I I think you have to have. You have to have a curiosity like a curiosity behind I mean the numbers. What's actually happening, um, making sure your plans make sense? There's a lot of communication required in any leadership role and I'm not sure everyone gives it the full credit that it deserves. Like, communication with context is really important for a leader in any part of the business, particularly in commercial, because you're asking people to deliver on certain plans. They need to know why, they need to know where we're at. And there's so many stakeholders in commercial that you, or across any of the, any of the functions, so you look at and say how are sales doing today? I mean even today, where are we at today? And everybody is keen to know because it's the most obvious measure on sort of how we're succeeding or how we're progressing against the plans that we've set ourselves. So, um, you know, curiosity, standard communication, absolutely. Um, I think, just thinking about all of your stakeholders, they're all having sort of slightly different needs and the timeliness of those needs too.
Speaker 2:It's very easy to forget that there's, you know whether it's investors, whether it be your customers, whether it be your team, whether it be other people outside of the immediate team, just needing to know information or wanting to know because it just helps you engage. You know, and it can be easy because I know it all in my head, I've got this covered and they're like well, how are things in our biggest customer? I didn't know they were doing that. Oh sorry, like that happens so many times in so many businesses. Um so, yeah, that's definitely.
Speaker 1:Communication is like number one for me and if you could sort of begin your career again, go back to the start, knowing what you know now? Is there one thing you would tell your younger self and I guess would you focus on the business side of stuff, leadership, or would it be in general, just maybe personal life? If you had to like those three top categories, is there one that stands out to you as being like that would be the most important thing I'd focus on? Or is it maybe a blend?
Speaker 2:if it were me personally, yeah, give yourself a break. Um, it's okay to not deliver it, you know. It's okay that you didn't try as hard as you thought you should today. It's okay, do you know? Like, give yourself a chance and maybe just enjoy that journey and I struggle with enjoying the journey sometimes. I try to we talked on that but like, just enjoy a little bit more, be you, because you'll deliver way better, you know you'll just.
Speaker 2:Everything happens when you're yourself and when you're enjoying it just brings this extra like energy and this life to what you're doing and you're in business with other people. They get that from you too. You know, if you've got this like stressed out sales rep walking into your store, you're like, oh, I want to buy from you. You know we use this personality walks in and really interesting, and they're engaged by who you are and what you're doing and they're really like there's eye contact and they're like everything's really it's all right. Invariably you're going to perform better in those first few seconds than you are with this sort of quiet person standing in the corner of the store. So it's a, give yourself a break and maybe you can try and enjoy it a tiny bit more and you're obviously a very different person, like your career has just been.
Speaker 1:You know such an incredible career and you mentioned at the start, but how has becoming being a dad shaped your like professional values and like guess what children taught you about sort of purpose, with ambition as well? How's it all sort of like blended together as being a being a dad now?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think, um, I think I mean they've massively helped me and I, I could tell you, like when I joined grow up, I think when anyone starts a new job, you over invest, you're excited, you, you want to do really, really well and you want to perform, but as as a dad, you also have a dad responsibility. Right, you've got to be an available dad, you know, you've got to be, you've got to be present, you've got to be able to do that pickup or that drop off or that. You know not be the idiot that comes in all cross and grumpy and think, hey, how are you, how's your day? And um, chloe is my youngest.
Speaker 2:And when I joined grow up, about three weeks in, she said how's your new job, daddy? And I said I really like it, I like it a lot. And she said you're definitely quite busy. And I was like, am I too busy? Like do you still see me enough? And she's like, yeah, you're okay and I think it's. You know she was big, she's been quite wise for her years there, but it's like I think you need to balance out that time like work. You need to make sure you find the healthy balance. I think this goes in every book, in every, every presentation in the world like find that healthy balance between both, because if you take too much from one and give it to the other, one of them suffers and invariably that's. That's when it all starts to unravel in a in a not so nice way.
Speaker 1:Nice I want now to get into more of the technical aspects of, maybe, food production and sort of how do you see the future of food production, especially because you now kind of see the implementation of technology in food production. How do you sort of see that going forward? And it's only sort of you maybe that's happening in grow up or anything they're really excited to at the moment yeah, if you think about food production, so much of our food is imported into the uk.
Speaker 2:We don't have enough space to grow all of the food that we need. You know we're going to vertical farms, don't you? Yeah, um, so, like so, and we're relying heavily on imports in areas of the world that are suffering from consistent drought, from labour exploitation. All of those things need to be solved in a really positive way, like the future of food production is sort of a more sustainable food system. I'd love it if the ultra processed foods became a non-conversation, because it was. You know we'd solve the fact that cheap food is required by large portion part of the population but we managed to find like really cheap, healthy food. That would be a really huge. That'd be such a powerful place for us to be. But, yeah, we need the british farming community vertical traditional to be in a really healthy place where you know everyone's able to make, take a fair share and have a healthy, sustainable, viable business to keep growing and investing to be able to grow the food that we need, because importing is going to get harder and harder as the weather and the climate changes and it will just mean that food prices will go up, be more volatile, um, and invariably, things will probably come more heavily packaged, if we have to, because to protect it in terms of having a consistent supply, so technology will play a massive part, you know, ai, of course you know,
Speaker 2:machine learning for us is really important, and how we forecast what we're going to grow, how the crops are growing in the growth chambers. All of that is coming to the fore. But it's how do you embrace it and like, bring it in that we can tell at any moment of the day how things are performing at the farm, like the yield. You know all everything water usage, that's.
Speaker 1:It's all bringing technology in to allow us to do a better job so maybe it might be good to provide context of, like the size of the facility that grow up has. About how big is the thing you described in buses, I think when I heard it, but it just blew my mind yeah, for sure that.
Speaker 2:Um, without talking too much about square foot and hectares and all of that, imagine there's um, we've got we've got a number of these growing chambers at the minute, but one growing chamber is like three double deca busses high, three double deca, double deca busses long, and there are like 12 fields stacked on top of each other.
Speaker 2:And, you know, on day one the germinated seeds pop in on one side and then, you know, 18 or so days later, the fully grown leaves pop out the other side and they've been in like the perfect mediterranean climate to grow. You know, day and night time, all of the things that you'd expect from a field grown crop. But you know, we're not grown in soil, so there's no soil erosion and because we're in a high care environment and that's very unique to us it means there are no pesticides required, so there's no nasties. So all of that allows us to grow a really great product and, at the end of the day, the first person to touch the salad leaves that you open when you buy our unbelievable brand, is you, and that's the way it should be for us and that's our model, that's our product, that's our, our usp, and we're really proud of it and I want to finish with a few final questions.
Speaker 1:I guess one would be if there were people at the early start of their career journey, maybe, um, who are in the food world. Is there any tips or advice you'd give them to sort of maybe break through the noise of quite a competitive landscape these days? How would they stand out to sort of maybe be noticed by someone who's more senior?
Speaker 2:I'm sure so many people are doing this have a genuine curiosity for the business and the person that you're trying to influence. We've just um, we've just employed somebody in the team called jody who did absolutely that in the interview and stood out um as a candidate who was so intrigued and impressed and prepared for the conversations that that she came in to have that. That's what you need to do and I think it's not easy for anybody to do that and, like we have to accept that so many people won't fail. But you have to keep going and avoid using ai to do all of this, because you're talking to a person at the end of the day, and that person can see that it's not you and and that's when it doesn't go right. So I think, once you get to that stage where you can influence a person, think about them, talk to them as a human being, be interested and think about the questions you want to ask them.
Speaker 1:And I guess one final thing would be you know we mentioned sort of we spoke about mental health and stuff. Is there anyone sort of that, you any advice you'd give to people who maybe are struggling with their mental health or maybe in their career and you know that's part of the aspect where they are just struggling Is there any like things that you would suggest to them? Any advice? That's part of the aspect where they are just struggling is there?
Speaker 2:any like things that you would suggest to them, any advice? Um, I mean, if you twist your ankle, you go and get some help and if you're not feeling, okay, there's plenty of help. And I know it feels awkward and it doesn't always feel right, but whether that's your best friend or somebody else or there's a mental health first aider or there's loads of services online, or whether you go to mind or shout or somewhere like, there's more places to get help, whether obviously and personally or online or via a text on your phone, but it's there and if you cut your finger, you put a plaster on it. That's what you do. That's normal. It's normal the other way. It just doesn't feel normal to you right now incredible.
Speaker 1:I think that's perfect place to wrap the interview and I just want to say thank you so much for coming on. Share johnny, your career is amazing and everything advice about career and also the messaging around mental health and how important is I think it's incredible. So thanks so much for coming on to share that. I really appreciate it cool.
Speaker 1:Thanks very much, jay, appreciate the time, nice one as always, guys, thank you so much for listening, really appreciate the support and if you guys like it and you're enjoying what you're listening to, please like and subscribe and write a review. We'd really appreciate it Again. We'll be back doing this weekly and, yeah, if you want to know more about starting a food business, head to wwwjgreenwoodcom. But, guys, as always, thank you and be great.