In this episode we have George Lineker, the Co-Founder of YourBusinessNumber a service that provides users with a second virtual UK mobile number, enabling them to use both WhatsApp and WhatsApp Business on the same phone.
George is widely known as the son of the famous Gary Lineker OBE , the English sports broadcaster and former professional footballer. But in this episode, we delve into how George has carved his own way as a start-up entrepreneur, and his most recent co-foundership at YourBusinessNumber.
In this episode, we explore:
Follow us on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thestartupdiariespodcast/
Follow The Start-Up Diaries Podcast on LinkedIn, Instagram, or find more free content from the Tech Recruitment Specialists powering The Start-Up Diaries - Burns Sheehan.
In this episode we have George Lineker, the Co-Founder of YourBusinessNumber a service that provides users with a second virtual UK mobile number, enabling them to use both WhatsApp and WhatsApp Business on the same phone.
George is widely known as the son of the famous Gary Lineker OBE , the English sports broadcaster and former professional footballer. But in this episode, we delve into how George has carved his own way as a start-up entrepreneur, and his most recent co-foundership at YourBusinessNumber.
In this episode, we explore:
Follow us on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thestartupdiariespodcast/
Follow The Start-Up Diaries Podcast on LinkedIn, Instagram, or find more free content from the Tech Recruitment Specialists powering The Start-Up Diaries - Burns Sheehan.
Chris McGowan (Host) 1:18
Hello, and welcome to a new episode of startup diaries. In today's episode, we have George Linacre, co founder of your business number. Welcome, George, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me on. No worries, I'm gonna start off by telling us a bit about yourself and the business. Yeah.
Speaker 1 1:30
So I have a business co founder business with my business partner, Sebastian, your business number. It's a website that allows users to unlock WhatsApp business with a virtual mobile number, or within 30 seconds. WhatsApp business is an app very similar to WhatsApp. But you need another number to your personal WhatsApp. So normally, you need a second phone, contract and Eason which is expensive and also a hassle. So what we do is we provide us with a number that will get straightaway straight onto the phone. And you can use both apps simultaneously. So it's just a lot easier, a lot quicker.
Chris McGowan (Host) 2:11
Nice. Well joined, tell us why you think why should businesses should use the product? And why is the best solution available?
Speaker 1 2:18
I think the main the main use of of using WhatsApp business and our service is separating your work chats from your personal chats, work groups. A lot of people have a lot of group chats, work chats, everything, and it gets quite confusing will happen in your personal chats. So having it in a separate app and all your work in one place is a lot easier, a lot more organised. And then obviously, there's privacy reasons as well. You don't want to advertise your work number everywhere in case obviously, you have to store your personal number. In case obviously you have to change if you get some wrong hands on. I've had my number 15 or so years, I'd hate to want to change it. Whereas if it's a work number, it's not really the end of the world. So yeah, so there's there's many reasons and just well, no one wants to carry around two phones nowadays, either. So yeah, it
Chris McGowan (Host) 3:08
makes sense. I mean, that's the only thing I always think about that when a client is allowed to start WhatsApp for me. It's like text is probably
Speaker 1 3:15
seems quite personal doesn't so yeah, so WhatsApp business as well. It's got it's got a lot of business tools. So you can have a company cover photo, you can have the business address. opening hours, you can have the away message greeting message. So it's more it's a lot more professional outfit as well as just given a personal WhatsApp as well, because that seems quite informal.
Chris McGowan (Host) 3:37
To understand that what this sort of challenges around the product itself,
Speaker 1 3:41
I think one of the challenges we faced is not many people know about WhatsApp business. Like if you go down the street. I think the vast majority wouldn't wouldn't have heard WhatsApp business. Obviously, everyone has heard WhatsApp, everyone uses WhatsApp. So when selling to customers or businesses, we found we had to sell WhatsApp business first, which maybe was a change at the start but now is we sort of know how to how to do it, how to go about it. It seemed to work a lot better. Our sales guy Mackenzie sort of started selling is our you have to go and buy a car. But we're the petrol team to work that car essentially. So yeah, so it's, yeah, because obviously you need that we need the second number.
Chris McGowan (Host) 4:28
I think one of the things I'd love to talk about is it's kind of an Alfa Romeo, obviously, Carolyn and his son, I think listen to another podcast yourself. And I know it's quite impressive what to bring up. It's why you so driven. Why are you so like trying to do your own business? I think a lot of people might sit back, relax, tick, tick, tick, I
Speaker 1 4:45
think the newness of football I don't have much of a choice. Unfortunately, but not so. Yes, have I had a business before and it's lost sort of led me to this. So that's Whoa, why want to succeed? In this case, it was a similar business numbers and everything and I put a lot of time in it. So when. So when I put didn't that didn't work out and I went through to this business and met my business partner service I Well, we've, I'm convinced this is a good idea. So it's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna need to make it work. So I think we went we're done a different avenue side, a new company, which a lot better. My business partner SAVVIS, but he's been great. We've got a great team. And yes, there's all sorts of moving in the right direction,
Chris McGowan (Host) 5:32
we've probably got to jump into that previous previous experience as a starting a business. So and how it's led you to being, I guess, incredibly suited for setting setting up a business of your business number. So do you want to give a bit of background to that, because obviously, you're not necessarily a first time entrepreneur. Now what, what talk us through that journey, I wouldn't
Speaker 1 5:49
necessarily call myself an entrepreneur, I see that a lot of successful people with lots of lots of businesses, I've given a couple of Go. But I had previously called flipper, which didn't work for various reasons. It wasn't executed very well, but it was an app similar to in terms of mobile numbers. Second numbers are an app where texts and calls rather than for WhatsApp. So my business partner in that type of Leobardo is involved in this business in a in a smaller ways. He provides us with numbers. So mainly I met Seb said was coming out of what he was doing. I was we were coming out of this, we were like, well, what's our business launched? We've got a load of numbers. You need another number to your personal WhatsApp. Otherwise, you'll mess up your personal WhatsApp. So why don't we build a website where we don't have to deal with the app costs, and then just simply deliver people a number to use with a whatsapp business and have it on the same phone? So we were convinced that there's a market for two numbers on one phone. So so then we made Sebastian started, started that. And now here we are,
Chris McGowan (Host) 7:02
what, obviously you've called called your time on flipper, what? What were the kind of moments which brought that to an end for you? Was it the rise of your whatsapp business?
Speaker 1 7:10
No, it wasn't, it wasn't that it was, I don't know, we had it, we sort of started quite well, we got quite a lot of traction. And then the text didn't seem to work, we never really got our Android, people in the business had to move away to start I was sure, you know, is quite sort of risky. So if you've got to start a family and essentially move away, so I sort of got put in charge to run everything. And I was very inexperienced at the time. And then probably, we dragged it on a bit longer than we should have been. If we didn't drag it on as long as we did. We wouldn't have we wouldn't have come to your business numbers WhatsApp business had just launched. So although it was although it didn't work out well and didn't work out as a business, it sort of led me to this. So it's like, yeah, one thing leads to the other part
Chris McGowan (Host) 7:58
of the journey. Yeah, exactly. Were there any key learnings that you took from the first business flipper, bringing that in to lead to build,
Speaker 1 8:06
I learned a lot from flipper, but me and me and seven, bringing him in, not bringing them in starting this together. I learned to sort of learn and continue to learn quite a lot from him. He's He's experienced in, in business. And in tech, he had a, he had a successful business beforehand, which is how I originally met him. So that's why I thought, well, when we were deciding about starting this your business number, we were thinking who who can become who can we bring into sort of help launch it with me? And so I thought Sid, was a perfect option. A perfect guy to to deal with. And it's obviously correct is because we've come quite a long way together.
Chris McGowan (Host) 8:49
Yeah. I mean, it's quite interesting that you've, you've raised quite a good bit of money already, as
Speaker 1 8:54
we've gone through a few rounds of funding, not not in the startup world nowadays, you see people raise 20 million in series, then 100. So it's been small. But I think yeah, we've raised on the seis and EIS. So sort of small amounts, it's raised, I think about a million pounds so far, in about three or four funds. So yeah, it's good. It's so it's quite a niche business. There's not too many costs, like obviously, you could raise millions and goal on marketing, or you can put raise a little bit, put bits of different channels and see which works. Yeah. And expand for that. But I think I don't think we're the sort of business to go out and raise so much straightaway. It's obviously WhatsApp business isn't so well, well known as obviously WhatsApp. So this wave, you want to write the wave? So I think if we did a big book, marketing campaign at the start of rubella was this or we don't know what's up is this I think we would have would have would have blown that.
Chris McGowan (Host) 9:54
Yeah. Well, we'd love to dive into that obviously reference a bit of the outsourcing Talking about marketing. I think your business's team is seven.
Speaker 1 10:03
Yeah, we're about seven. We outsource Addison SEO. And
Chris McGowan (Host) 10:10
so what was the decision making behind that? But why have you? Well, I
Speaker 1 10:12
think I think largely the reason was, we only had a small bit of funding. We didn't want to get full time employees to do Google ads and Facebook and Instagram ads. Obviously, SEOs, it'd be very expensive. And it's definitely definitely a lot better option and media and myself. So the the agency would call, great doing a great job, seeing some good results. So nice to be the right decision, I think.
Chris McGowan (Host) 10:39
So we often talk to founders, especially tech founders, in particular, when they build a product, and we ask them about the outsourcing experience of tech. But what would you have? Do you have any sort of advice around the outsourcing and marketing? Is there any things to look for good experiences or bad experiences you've had? I'm not
Speaker 1 10:55
sure really, I think? I think Well, the way that we well, more said than he is, he's got a lot more connections and a lot more experience in the industry than I have. But he went to people he's worked with before and got recommendations and seeing so then we also went to a few different companies. And then we just see saw, which works best. And they also took a chance on us, which, which obviously, you got appreciate as a startup with because we self funded at the start. So yeah, so we've resolved when well, we like we'd love to work with you. Hopefully, we can see this coming a decent business, but we've only raised a certain amount and start with. So they took they also took a chance on us as well. So it's been good.
Chris McGowan (Host) 11:44
One of the things I always think on the tech side is kind of a communication and understanding is it a lot more straightforward. It's quite straightforward dealing with an outsourced marketing agency SEO agency.
Speaker 1 11:52
I mean, we've we've not had any any issues at all, I think outsourcing would definitely, if I was able to do another business, I'd go about doing it the same way. We've not had any problems I'm sure other people have would have had different experiences. But yeah, there's been no complaints why we've both got great relationships with each other's businesses so nice. We could
Chris McGowan (Host) 12:13
you've obviously referenced your your co founder SAP a couple of times and spoke very highly of him. Can you talk us through that dynamic between the two of you and what you both bring, I guess to the business?
Speaker 1 12:24
Yeah, I think we both bounce same same ideas off each other, which we both get on very well, which obviously is key and a business. I think you get quite a few businesses who starts and then obviously the founders fall out and and it all goes a bit downhill. But now we go on great. I think yeah, so when we started I, he sort of built the site originally just test the site, and that was decent. And then and then going out to launch or to test. It was my sort of side of business which got it out there a little bit in terms of whether it be my social network influence or whether it's my friends I've known God with over the years who got big followings work, pull in a favour. So that sort of got us off the ground. So he's very good with the tech side, like the business side, whereas we'll get and reach out. So getting articles coming. Coming on podcast is more my skill. So I think he's he's definitely a lot more skilled than I am. The next good in
Chris McGowan (Host) 13:27
finding sub then what point did you realise he's the sort of person you want to work with as a? I guess what what I understand is, is there like any advice you could give to someone who's looking for a co founder or someone to bounce off?
Speaker 1 13:39
I'm not sure. Really. I think, well, we met. I met him my dad's neighbours barbecue. Weirdly, I wasn't I wasn't even gonna go. So it was just by chance. So then we were talking about it. And then he was had his sort of tech business not Not really. Yeah, it was type business. Yeah. So and then I had my, this is when I'd be up. And then we had a couple of meetings about how we could work together with that. And then obviously, two years down the line would note that year down the line, I was coming out of his app, and he was coming out of his business and, and he was like, Have you got anything going on? And I was I actually funnily enough, me and Leo talking about doing a website for numbers rather than app to do with WhatsApp business. So I met we met in COVID. sighs we SP outside 10 Outside member's club, just that excuse they can use and then so we went away. And then he thought about new sanctions could be quite a good business. And then we'd be in. Leo drew up the code website to make sure all worked and just enough a bit, got it to a point where we can go out and send it to people to test and then went well, and then twin summit 2021 is when we actually launched,
Chris McGowan (Host) 14:57
going back in time then always been really intrigued. Seems like obviously you being you don't like the word entrepreneur. Have you always had that desire to run your own business to be your own person? What What's your kind of story to get into this point?
Speaker 1 15:09
No, I'm not sure really. Obviously, as a kid, I wanted to be a footballer, didn't take long to realise that was never happening. And then my God, my godfather as my dad's age, and then saw how I could be a football agent. And I was I don't know nothing about football. I didn't last long. And then I didn't know I sort of fell into it. I got asked if I wanted to be involved in this number, new numbers through a mason and that gate go through, and I thought it was a good idea, obviously, as we spoke about, but I thought there must be some sort of market for for two numbers on one phone. So that's why sort of stuck with it as well. And I thought, well, I've done this for so long. It's like I don't really I don't know where I go as a job. If. So, that was probably some of the reason why I stuck with it for a while because, like, I had no idea what job I'd want to do. And I'm sure there is a market for for two numbers. So I've just got to try and succeed at this one. Yeah,
Chris McGowan (Host) 16:14
fair enough. I mean, it's fair enough story too. But I mean, out of interest just to pick it up. So did you have experienced as a football agent for a period of time? No, no.
Speaker 1 16:22
It was just a school thing. Maybe agent would be quite a good job but yeah, that would that lasts about 10 minutes
Chris McGowan (Host) 16:31
I'd love to understand sort of where you're at in the business journey. What does that what does the future look like for the business obviously understand the products but what is it What's your vision?
Speaker 1 16:42
Well, I think I think the future is just I think it's a niche quite simple product and it's it's cheap, it's fast. It's simple as people seem to like it, I think there's a lot of second number apps out there where you can have calls and SMS add ons and add some prices and add topping up credit and stuff which which is quite complex, which sort of similar to so we're going to focus on keeping this niche and then hopefully we're in we offer US and UK numbers. But we work internationally so you can get a number from anywhere. So hopefully with with the with the growth we can we can hit New geographical markets offer different numbers, Germany's Germany's a big WhatsApp number, you WhatsApp Musa bridges in India are also huge in other countries in Europe. So hopefully, we can test out some new geographies. And hopefully, well, the aim is to be the number one virtual mobile number provider for whatsapp business. So initially,
Chris McGowan (Host) 17:44
what was the majority of the user base at the moment isn't those those high growth countries, so
Speaker 1 17:48
you know, so we only offer the UK and USA, UK. So our largest our large audience, largest audiences? In the UK, I think towards the start of this year, we, we launched the US numbers, which was just this only on Google ads, and a bit of Facebook and an insert. It's not like any flash marketing campaigns or anything. But what was quite a challenge with the US numbers is they work, you know, their mobile numbers work like our landlines, so different error codes in different states. So we actually get everything matched up for that, but we our CTO, rich, he's a, he's a bit of a genius. He's on a great job they're getting. So we're doing we've got some good growth in the US and then hopefully may maybe Australian numbers could be quite a good one. And Germany, and hopefully both Yeah, well, it's different number regulation, different countries. So it's
Chris McGowan (Host) 18:44
gonna say, any adaptations to the business going into the US market is that you've you had to change your approach to the marketing and sales. And
Speaker 1 18:51
yeah, so we're not we're not really changed much. What's What's quite fortunate in the US, although they're mainly SMS, met many texts on SMS rather than use WhatsApp. And due to the huge population, there's still a lot of people who do use WhatsApp. But what we saw we did it we knew that before we launched into us, but we did it mainly as a as a test to see if we can go into other countries and offered different offer different numbers. And it's worked well. It obviously helps us English as well. Yeah. So if we if we launched Germany or Spanish numbers that we'd have to do the Spanish website and everything. But now we've got to use obviously, US English, but we'd have everything dollars. So we charge them in dollars, which doesn't sound like much but it does help when you're when you're buying when you're selling a product in another country.
Chris McGowan (Host) 19:42
Yeah. Awesome. So going through to the final couple questions that we always ask them. What's been the biggest challenge in your career to date?
Speaker 1 19:51
A bunch of a career I don't know. Well, I've probably bored me. Keep bringing up the I'm past that. But that was quite challenging when I didn't have that much experience. And it's sort of Evernote. Obviously, this isn't people running businesses on a much larger scale than what I was a sort of doing. But that was proved quite stressful, but bleed into this. So you can can't really complain.
Chris McGowan (Host) 20:17
Was it what was kind of one of the key learnings I think from from going up because you went basically from University.
Speaker 1 20:24
I went to uni did a year or so but I didn't really like uni wasn't really for me. So I sort of came out of that state of did a run this job at ISP, which I surely enjoyed, on the sport, and then sort of came into music website, which I lost, which I had for a couple of years. But it was all it was all free. So there's no real way to monetize that. And then so yeah, and then here, we are
Chris McGowan (Host) 20:53
not enjoying University and dropping out like every tech entrepreneurs journey at the moment and feel like yeah, you're on, you're on the right path. And yeah, that was there anything specifically that when you started moving your music business, then there was particularly eye opening to you as a as a founder or not using the word that you like, don't like, but
Speaker 1 21:13
that's one to know, sort of, I think sort of just came rolled on. So I was coming out of music. And then the guy said, I've got this idea. So it's like, yeah, I'll give that a go. I guess. Obviously, I'm more fortunate than others. I guess when you're young in your 20s and stuff, you're not much responsibilities. And I was living at home. Yeah, why not? I'll just give it a go. Yeah. Did that talk through the 20?
Chris McGowan (Host) 21:47
Places good place to learn, though. I guess final question. We always ask everyone that is, what's the one bit of advice that you give to someone who's looking to start their own business tomorrow?
Speaker 1 21:58
I think well, if you're looking at me to advice, I think that's probably the wrong thing. I don't know. I think I always feel I have to be quite careful say this. Obviously, it's been quite fortunate and stuff. But I guess if you're young, and you've got an got an idea you want to pursue with and you've not really got too much phosphorus. He's like a family and stuff, I think. Just go for it. I think, although it's not easy to succeed with a business. It's awesome. But it's also never been like an easy, easier time to make one like it's cheap. You can make one register or really quickly. So yeah, although it's not hard to succeed. It's easy to actually set up a business.
Chris McGowan (Host) 22:38
Awesome. Well, we'll wrap it up that thanks for joining us, George. I've enjoyed it. It was great.