That's a Bad Sign

The Preppy Killer and the Lululemon Murder

December 31, 2020 Emily Winchurch & Liz Mahoney Season 1 Episode 19
That's a Bad Sign
The Preppy Killer and the Lululemon Murder
Chapters
1:44
Murder start
That's a Bad Sign
The Preppy Killer and the Lululemon Murder
Dec 31, 2020 Season 1 Episode 19
Emily Winchurch & Liz Mahoney

Robert Emmet Chambers Jr. was dubbed the Preppy Killer by the media after murdering 18-year-old Jennifer Levin in NYC's Central Park. He was a rich white boy from New York - and despite how hard he tried, money and good looks couldn't get him out of murder charges. Then one Saturday morning a Lululemon employee goes to open the store for the day, but she finds the shop a mess and a dead coworker. Who could have done this? Was it two masked men? Or Brittany Norwood, a fellow Lululemon employee?

Sources:
 https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/entertainment/a29712185/robert-chambers-preppy-murder-central-park/
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/jennifer-levin-robert-chambers-preppy-murder-documentary-clip-911551/
https://nymag.com/news/features/crime/48262/
NY Magazine article called “East Side Story” by Michael Stone (2008)           
https://www.chillingcrimes.com/blogs/news/jennifer-levin
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2011/03/lululemon-murder-a-plot-twist-reminds-us-that-most-crime-isn-t-random.html
https://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/article/the-lulu-lemon-murder-0
https://www.ranker.com/list/jayna-murray-lululemon-facts/stefanie-hammond 

Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/badsign)

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Robert Emmet Chambers Jr. was dubbed the Preppy Killer by the media after murdering 18-year-old Jennifer Levin in NYC's Central Park. He was a rich white boy from New York - and despite how hard he tried, money and good looks couldn't get him out of murder charges. Then one Saturday morning a Lululemon employee goes to open the store for the day, but she finds the shop a mess and a dead coworker. Who could have done this? Was it two masked men? Or Brittany Norwood, a fellow Lululemon employee?

Sources:
 https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/entertainment/a29712185/robert-chambers-preppy-murder-central-park/
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/jennifer-levin-robert-chambers-preppy-murder-documentary-clip-911551/
https://nymag.com/news/features/crime/48262/
NY Magazine article called “East Side Story” by Michael Stone (2008)           
https://www.chillingcrimes.com/blogs/news/jennifer-levin
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2011/03/lululemon-murder-a-plot-twist-reminds-us-that-most-crime-isn-t-random.html
https://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/article/the-lulu-lemon-murder-0
https://www.ranker.com/list/jayna-murray-lululemon-facts/stefanie-hammond 

Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/badsign)

Emily: [00:00:00] Uh, lo hello, welcome back. 
Liz: [00:00:02] You're listening to episode 19 of that's a bad sign 
Emily: [00:00:05] when you're home, Emily and Liz. So we will start this off with recommendation, coroner and Liz. You are first, 
Liz: [00:00:12] we're recording this a little bit in advance, but tonight Emily and I are going out to dinner outdoors, even though it's cold out with a few of our friends from high school.
And I'm so excited, I really just feel like I haven't seen a group of people. I mean, it's like five of us. But I just am really looking forward to it. So I encourage everyone. If you can go eat a meal outside with friends, I would do so, because let's be real. I feel like the seasonal depression is hitting me hard this year.
Emily: [00:00:37] Is that your recommendation to go like that? Okay. That's a really good one. Um, my recommendation is slightly different. It's a TV show that I just started. There's only three episodes out. So I guess by the time this airs, there might be four or five. Uh, it's called your honor. And it's a new, I think it Showtime and it's with Bryan Cranston and he's a judge and his son, uh, commits a hit and run accident, killing somebody.
So it's a drama following the two of them around, and it is a ton of anxiety and really sad, but the acting is amazing. 
Liz: [00:01:12] I love Bryan Cranston, so I'm sure it's great. 
Emily: [00:01:14] I love him so much. 
Liz: [00:01:16] He's a great actor. I've never heard of that, but it just came out. All right. I like it. I will check it out. Everyone else should too.
Emily: [00:01:22] Now let's cheers. Let's cheers. I have coffee and Liz has wine. 
Liz: [00:01:26] Yeah. 
Emily: [00:01:26] Lame might sound weird.
Liz: [00:01:40] We're back. And I just want to point out that Emily has switched to champagnes. I'm not drinking alone. 
Emily: [00:01:44] That is true. I'm sorry. I gave you a hard time about it. I have switched I today. I'm covering the killing of Jayna Murray at the Lulu lemon store and Bethesda, Maryland on March 11th. 
Liz: [00:01:55] Okay. Definitely heard about this, but I kind of forget all the details.
I'm really excited. 
Emily: [00:02:00] My sources include slate.com, crime and investigation.com and ranker. 
Liz: [00:02:07] Oh, my God, no Wikipedia, 
Emily: [00:02:08] no Wikipedia 
Liz: [00:02:09] either today. 
Emily: [00:02:10] Wow. I'm very proud of us. We're 
Liz: [00:02:12] really growing. 
Emily: [00:02:13] Now. The story begins on a Saturday when Alula lemon employee goes to the store to open up the store. And when she gets into the store, she notices the whole place is completely trashed and there's blood everywhere.
And then she hears some sounds in the back. And she grabs a man off the street to go into the back with her because she's too scared. Obviously. I think that's a good idea. Art 
Liz: [00:02:36] move. Yeah, I think I would do the same thing. 
Emily: [00:02:38] And when she goes in, she sees her two coworkers, her one coworker, John, your Marie is dead on site at her other coworker.
Brittany Norwood is beaten and tied up. So Brittany asked her to call the police. And when the police got there, the story is that. Brittany, the woman who survived her Ingenia, we're locking up the store Friday night. So the night prior and after they locked up, they both left. But then 15 minutes later, Brittany called Johnny to meet her back in the store because Brittany left her wallet.
So when they went back, when they returned back to the store, they opened the doors and immediately two men in ski masks followed them in and robbed the store, started beating the girls and they raped the girls. And they're also using racial slurs against Brittany because Brittany was black. 
Liz: [00:03:33] God, that's 
Emily: [00:03:35] terrifying.
Horrible 
Liz: [00:03:36] story. 
Emily: [00:03:37] Now the police don't necessarily believe Brittany story right away. Quote from the lead detective Dimitri Rubin, he said it was just this little voice in the back of my head. Something's not right here. The way Brittany's describing these two guys, they're racist, they're rapists. They're robbers.
They're murderers. It's like the worst human beings you could possibly describe, but the crime scene didn't really say two crazy people off the street. The crime scene screamed an inside job. 
Liz: [00:04:05] Done done, done. However, 
Emily: [00:04:07] the police, they obviously investigate Brittany's claims because that is horrible and they want to treat her as a victim.
So they look into local data of who was purchasing ski masks, select the sales in town. They offer $150,000 reward to anybody who has any tips or insight information. And they even tell a man that kind of matches the description that Brittany gave them. And between all these things, nothing pans out.
Liz: [00:04:34] Does Brittany have any injuries or is she totally fine? 
Emily: [00:04:37] So she I'll get there? Cause that's a very good question. They begin to poke holes in her story. And the first thing is, as you just said, John yes' wounds were so horrible. So traumatic. There was a knife wound through her head and they ultimately led to her death.
Whereas Brittany had very little and superficial wounds. Also the way Brittany was tied up, they said, that's not usually like we've been to these crime scenes before. That's not how people are tied up. She clearly did that to ourselves. Also, there was no evidence of rape among either of the curls. So that's great, but that contradicts what Brittany said, and they find two shoe prints throughout the store and essentially bloody footprints.
And one of them is Brittany is which makes sense. Cause she was there, but then the other footprint turns out it's a man's sneaker, but it's a Lulu lemon sneaker and they find the pair of shoes in the store. 
Liz: [00:05:34] Okay. So that's very suspicious. 
Emily: [00:05:36] So. What Brittany wants you to believe is that the two men came in, beat them, robbed them, put on a pair of shoes, ran around the store, took off the shoes and left.
Liz: [00:05:47] No Lululemon's store to me does make sense because I'm sure that's worth a lot of money, all that stuff. If you want to like resell it somehow. But it seems like they didn't really take much of anything. Yeah, exactly. Which doesn't make sense. 
Emily: [00:06:00] So, I mean, I think it's becoming clear clearly this was a little more, more staged and Brittany took the shoes, walked around and men shoes to try to make it look like a man was walking around, but then she forgot to get rid of them and she just left the shoes there.
Also her car. There are witnesses who say, Brittany double parked her car in front of the store. And she parked illegally Friday night. However, Saturday morning, her car was found a few blocks away. So police said, well, why has your car moved? And I want to call out. I think it's weird if your coworkers know where you parked your car, however, if you're parking in illegally, then yeah, that's going to stick 
Liz: [00:06:37] to that double parking.
Like people take notice of that because I get so annoyed by it. 
Emily: [00:06:41] Yeah. Anyone's going to notice. So her story starts to change. And she says, Oh, these two men and ski masks, they, uh, you know, beat us up. And then they made me move my car. Right. And John yes' blood was found all over Brittany's car. So again, just her, story's not adding up.
Liz: [00:07:00] It's not really looking good for her. Also 
Emily: [00:07:03] mind you that this is a. It's just a complex, full of store is it's an outdoor mall. So the Lululemon's not just the only store there, there is an Apple store, right next door. I keep saying store indoor, but 
Liz: [00:07:16] you get what I'm saying? Got it. 
Emily: [00:07:18] And the Apple employee is they were there and they did not hear two men brutally attacking two women.
They instead heard two women fighting. Okay. Several employees said that they heard things like, talk to me, don't do this. Wait, what's going on, followed by screaming and yelling for 20 minutes and things like, God, help me please help me. 
Liz: [00:07:44] Oh God. 
Emily: [00:07:44] So I mean, the proves that the two women were fighting and obviously.
Brittany was attacking John. Yeah. But I think that's also kind of crazy that no one at the Apple store thought to report that 
Liz: [00:07:55] I was just about to bring that up. How could you hear such a thing and not bring it up 
Emily: [00:07:59] even a security guard who's there. 
Liz: [00:08:01] Yeah. Or even just take a stroll by the story yourself.
Emily: [00:08:04] So, I mean, I, uh, I read one article where they're saying it's the kitty Genovese. I was just 
Liz: [00:08:09] going to say that too. Oh my gosh. 
Emily: [00:08:11] Uh, do you want to give a recap of what it means for our listeners? 
Liz: [00:08:14] Sure. So can you just really quick kitty Genovese? I don't remember what year it was, but she was a woman walking home to her apartment in Queens, New York.
She was attacked in the courtyard of her apartment complex, raped. I think. And beaten. And she was screaming for help at the top of her lungs. And her neighbors ended up hearing her because when the police came finally to investigate the next day, they all say, Oh yeah, I heard that. I looked out the window.
Other people were looking, I figured someone else would say, so the thing 
Emily: [00:08:44] exactly. So it's the idea of you hear something you think, Oh no, no someone else will report it. And then at the end of the day, nobody reports 
Liz: [00:08:52] it. 
Emily: [00:08:52] So that's exactly what happened at the Apple store, which is so sad that she could have been saved.
Liz: [00:08:57] Yeah. 
Emily: [00:08:58] So with all of these facts coming together, six days after the murder, Brittany is arrested and charged. Now the truth starts to come out. Turns out Brittany Norwood was not the most popular employee at Lulu lemon. And she had a habit of not only stealing from the store, but stealing from her coworkers, stealing out of their purses and their lockers.
And on Friday night, I think Johnny was a little bit more senior than Brittany. So the policy was when you're leaving, you know, someone a manager's going to do a routine check of your back to make sure you're not stealing. So Johnny looked into Brittany's bag and saw that Brittany stole a pair of Lulu lemon leggings.
And here's two different reports. I'm not sure which one is true. One of them says that John yet just didn't say anything to Brittany. She said, okay, see ya. And she was going to report Brittany, however, she didn't want to confront her about it. And then another report says that John, yeah, she didn't tell Brittany, but she went to the back and called her manager and said, quote, we got the bitch and Brittany overheard.
So regardless Brittany figured out she was getting caught. It didn't sound like there was any confrontation about it just yet though. Okay. So the two girls leave the store and then 15 minutes later, Brittany calls Tonya and says, can you meet me? I lost my wallet. I left it in the store. Can we go back in?
So when they go back into the store, that's when they start to confront each other about the stealing and Brittany in turn chokes and stabs John yah. Using a selection of weapon, she found in the store, including a hammer, a wrench, a knife. And a peg used to hold up a mannequin. 
Liz: [00:10:39] Oh my God. That's that's a lot of weapons.
That's 
Emily: [00:10:42] brutal. Also Johnny had 330 injuries, 107 of them or defensive wounds indicating that she was alive throughout most of the assault and the medical examiner who performed Janez autopsy stated he had never seen so many defensive wounds on one person. 
Liz: [00:11:02] Oh my God, that poor girl 
Emily: [00:11:04] also, I think this just shows you like, it wasn't just a fight or just like a crime in the moment.
And she snapped. She took this way too far. 
Liz: [00:11:13] Yeah. I mean, that is the definition of overkill. 
Emily: [00:11:15] Yeah, exactly. So she admits to the murder at the trial, the defense attorney say, Brittany did kill John. Yeah. But. It was not premeditated, so it shouldn't be counted as first degree murder. However, the jury is not buying it.
And they took a lesson an hour to find Brittany guilty of first degree murder. So in January, 2012, she is convicted and she is sentenced to the maximum term of a life in prison without the possibility of parole. Great. Now I want to end on a quote from Phyllis Marie. So Donna's mother and she said her daughter's death was quote, a pain that ripped through our bodies, that the grief is like a lightning strike.
It is so powerful. It is so intense. This individual must be removed from society forever. 
Liz: [00:12:02] Wow. I mean, I can't even imagine losing a child to begin with, but knowing that your child was so violently murdered, 
Emily: [00:12:11] Yeah. And also by her coworker over a pair of leggings. 
Liz: [00:12:15] Yeah. I was just going to say, is there any information on if Brittany has anything psychologically wrong with her?
Cause I mean, I feel like you don't just snap like that, unless there's something else going on. 
Emily: [00:12:26] I think this was her first violent tack. She had a history of. Theft, even people in high school said she was a klepto, but yeah. I mean, this is pretty insane. And the fact is like, if you got caught stealing, you would have been fired, but now you're going to prison for the rest of your day.
Liz: [00:12:44] Like yeah. Like that's not someone that's thinking logically. Exactly. Yeah. That is that's worse than I feel like some of the other murder, crazy murders we've covered. 
Emily: [00:12:53] Yeah. Um, last thing I want to know, the one sad thing is we've covered even worse murders and men have gotten an out on parole. So 
Liz: [00:13:03] fair point.
Emily: [00:13:03] Yeah. So that's just something to think about 
Liz: [00:13:06] what, like a random, like occurrence 
Emily: [00:13:09] in a Lulu lemon. No laughs 
Liz: [00:13:11] in Bethesda, Maryland, and probably, you know, a normal shopping center. 
Emily: [00:13:16] It was a high end shopping center. It was really nice. Yeah. 
Liz: [00:13:19] That is insane. I'm sure the police there were shocked. 
Emily: [00:13:23] All right. So I will pass the Baton to you and your story.
Liz: [00:13:27] All right. Quick break. Quick break.
all right. We are back and I'm going to jump right in, 
Emily: [00:13:41] do it, 
Liz: [00:13:42] do it. Thank you for the encouragement. Okay. So I am going to cover the preppy murder that took place in York city in 1986. Ooh. So like I said, I didn't use Wikipedia. This is the first time that I haven't used it. So I feel like I'm, I deserve a Pat on the back where 
Emily: [00:14:02] I'm becoming very professional.
Liz: [00:14:04] Yeah. Next thing you know, I'm going to be at the crime scene myself. So my references include good housekeeping.com. Rolling stone.com. Chilling crimes.com and a New York magazine article called East side story by Michael Stone. That came out in 2008. All right. We're in Manhattan in the 1980s. So August 25th, 1986, 18 year old Jennifer Levin decided to go out for drinks at a popular bar located on the upper East side of Manhattan called Dorian's red hand on 84th and second Avenue.
Oh, God, I see you laughing. Have you been to Dorian's? 
Emily: [00:14:42] Yes, way too many times. Oh my God do she is. 
Liz: [00:14:45] Yeah. I mean, exactly. That's sort of that ties into the preppy murder, uh, title of the story, but I know I, I used to go there every year for Christmas party actually, but this year it's not happening because of the pandemic.
Emily: [00:14:57] I was there actually for a Halloween party for the pandemic as well. 
Liz: [00:15:01] Yeah. So Doreen's, is that still alive and kicking? So Jennifer was young and attractive and she ran with an affluent Manhattan crowd. She lived in Soho with her father who was a really successful property agent and she attended private New York city schools, her whole life.
Emily: [00:15:18] I can 
Liz: [00:15:18] picture it, but she apparently knew how lucky she was to have the life that she did. So she wanted to live life to the fullest. And when she wasn't in school or studying, she liked to go out and party with her friends. The night out of Dorian's was pretty typical fun night for them. And a lot of her friends were at the bar as well.
This bar attracted a lot of kids from similar backgrounds, affluent, you know, teenagers. I think they were pretty lenient on ideas as well. So the night was full of drinks and laughs and hugs between friends who hadn't seen each other in a long time, because people were out, you know, at their summer houses all for the past few months, because now it's the end of August.
Yeah. Nothing seemed weird or out of the ordinary and sell the next morning when it was discovered that Jennifer hadn't returned home. So that next morning, August 26th at around 6:00 AM a cyclist riding through central park, noticed something on the grassy Knoll. So obviously central park is huge, but this particular section was right behind the metropolitan museum of art, which is between like 80th and 84th street on the East side.
Yeah. It's really not a far walk at all from Dorian's historians would I say was on 84th and second. So you're just walking a few avenues. Yeah, probably between a 10 and 15 minute walk. Okay. Technically it was 13 because I did Google map it, but. I like that. So the cyclist sort of looked into this and that something turned out to be a partially clothed and beaten body of a young woman.
And apparently this person could tell something was wrong immediately because of the way the body was positioned. One leg was up in the air, but one arm was up in the air, it just looked really unnatural. And then they realized that the body wasn't moving. So they called the police obviously, 
Emily: [00:17:00] Oh my God, 
Liz: [00:17:01] it's the police got there and they easily identified.
The body as Jennifer's, because they found her wallet on her, which contained her driver's permit with her name on it. Okay. I would take note though that the year of her birth had been changed to make her look like she was four years older than she actually was because she was only 18. 
Emily: [00:17:20] Oh. So did she like take a marker on her ID?
Liz: [00:17:23] I think she probably talked it or something. Yeah. Yeah. Jennifer's body was severely bruised. Her bra was found around her neck and her underwear was found over a hundred yards away from her body. There were also several cuts and marks on her neck, although it's later determined that those were probably self-inflicted because she was trying to fight off whoever was strangling her.
Okay. Like, can you imagine if someone had something around your neck, you'd be trying to like pull it off. So your nails would be digging into your skin? Yeah. 
Emily: [00:17:51] Yeah. Oh boy. 
Liz: [00:17:53] So the police obviously quickly start investigating this. And they talk to all of Jennifer's friends who had been out with her the night before her friends tell the police that they, yes, they were all at the bar Dorian's and that Jennifer had left the bar on 4:30 AM, but she left with a guy, but this guy was no stranger.
He was actually someone that Jennifer and her friends knew 19 year old, Robert Chambers. Robert was well-known among that crowd because he too came from a wealthy family. He went to private schools and he liked to party. Also. Apparently he and Jennifer had been romantically involved on and off for a few months.
Emily: [00:18:29] So obviously she's going away with him. Like, 
Liz: [00:18:31] there's nothing. I mean, I would not be concerned if my, one of my friends left with someone that they had been, you know, casually dating and we all knew him. Yeah. And if there were no red flags. Oh 
Emily: [00:18:39] God. 
Liz: [00:18:40] So once the police learn all this information from Jennifer's friends, they head over to Robert's house on the upper East side to speak with him.
When they get to Robert's house, they instantly see that he has scratches and bruises on his body. But when he's asked about it, he claims that his cat did that, 
Emily: [00:18:57] obviously like, what are you doing to your cat? That it feels a need to attack you. 
Liz: [00:19:01] I'm right. I mean, like maybe we should arrest you for animal abuse.
If that's the case, 
Emily: [00:19:05] either way. That's a bad side. Yes. 
Liz: [00:19:07] Um, he eventually agrees to go down to the police station to make a statement. Now we're going to backtrack a little bit to the night before and recap Robert's night at Dorian's. Okay. Unlike Jennifer, who was having a really happy fun night with friends Robert's evening was a little bit more dark.
He was in a bad mood from the get-go. He was supposed to meet his then girlfriend at a different bar earlier that night, but he just didn't go like he just straight up ditched and decided to go to Dorian's by himself. 
Emily: [00:19:34] Oh, and he has a girlfriend. 
Liz: [00:19:36] Yes. So later on that girlfriend showed up at Dorian's and confronted him.
And the story goes that she threw a bunch of condoms at him and said, use these with someone else because you're not going to get the chance to use them with me go girl. Yeah. But I mean, this just further, like throws him into his depressed bad mood. Okay. But it's not her fault. Absolutely not. Yeah. I mean, that's a power move.
Yeah. So after the girlfriend left the bar. He ends up starting to talk with Jennifer. Uh, they had history as I mentioned. So this makes sense. They're flirting together and everyone's story is aligned that the two of them left the bar together around 4:30 AM. It seems so late to me. I can't even imagine staying out that late.
Emily: [00:20:14] No, also the fact that it was open past four. 
Liz: [00:20:18] I know this bar followed no rules, underage drinking, not closing at curfew. So back to Robert at the police station at this point, He finally admits that the scratches on his body were not from his cat, but they were actually from Jennifer and that he did kill her, but it was an accident shut up.
His story was that Jennifer wanted rough sex. So she got aggressive with him in the park. He said that she put his hands behind his back and he hadn't consented to this and it started to hurt him. So he pushed her off. 
Emily: [00:20:50] Okay, sure. 
Liz: [00:20:52] Yeah, because every guy is going to push. A girl off of them like that 
Emily: [00:20:56] he probably had a hundred pounds on her, 
Liz: [00:20:57] so, Oh, easily.
He was a tall guy. He was over six feet. Oh God. He said he struck at Jennifer's neck with his arm to get her off of him. And that's what killed her. But it was total accident 
Emily: [00:21:09] that doesn't explain why she suffocated. 
Liz: [00:21:12] Right. So when the Emmy did the autopsy on Jennifer's body, Robert's story fell apart.
Because Jennifer had died from pressure to her throat for at least 20 seconds. And the official cause of death was asphyxia by strangulation. So that's not one blow to someone and their dad. Yeah. You have to actively, Ugh. Strangulation really freaks me out. Cause you're so close with the person you're staring at them and you have to be physically committing the crime for a long period of time.
Emily: [00:21:44] Yeah. 
Liz: [00:21:45] So because of this, Robert is charged with second degree murder. 
Emily: [00:21:48] Why? Second degree? 
Liz: [00:21:50] I don't know. It didn't 
Emily: [00:21:52] cause it wasn't premeditated. I guess 
Liz: [00:21:55] we should really brush up on these laws. 
Emily: [00:21:58] Let's just go with my version. Cause it wasn't premeditated. 
Liz: [00:22:01] All right. So even though there were almost 2000 murders in New York during the year of 1986.
Jennifer's murder received by far the most media attention. Yeah. This is because the story involved, two young rich children who came from affluent families and should have had bright futures ahead of them. But instead one night out led to one of them being dead and the other facing potentially life in prison.
Yeah. I mean, that is a headline. Of course, 
Emily: [00:22:29] and they're both white, so people love 
Liz: [00:22:31] that. Yeah. And Roberts, I mean, they're both really good looking also. Oh yeah. So like front page, of course, the media and the public were fascinated by Robert's life. In particular, he was tall and handsome. He was a varsity athlete and he had been described as Kennedy esque.
Emily: [00:22:47] So an asshole, 
Liz: [00:22:49] which, yeah, which, you know, now that we've covered cases that involve the Kennedys, would we say that's a good thing? 
Emily: [00:22:53] No, but so what they, they covered him and they kind of painted him in a good light. 
Liz: [00:22:58] Yeah. They think he's this like, All-American boy. 
Emily: [00:23:00] Oh my God, this makes me so angry. 
Liz: [00:23:03] Then he's dubbed the preppy killer.
I like 
Emily: [00:23:06] the name, 
Liz: [00:23:07] obviously. He was not all clean though. As we know, he had been kicked out of several prestigious schools and he had a history with drugs. His parents had even sent him to rehab to try to get him help, but that just didn't work out. 
Emily: [00:23:19] Okay. This makes sense. 
Liz: [00:23:21] While he awaited trial, Robert was set free on bail, which is just crazy because he murdered someone.
Emily: [00:23:28] Yeah. 
Liz: [00:23:28] That's and he only is getting that because he's a rich white kid and weird fact that I actually didn't even write down the owner of Dorian's put up his apartment. As like, um, collateral. Cause I think his family was friends with them. 
Emily: [00:23:43] Oh my God. 
Liz: [00:23:44] Isn't that a weird twist? 
Emily: [00:23:45] It's really fucked up. 
Liz: [00:23:46] So this is disgusting wallet.
Robert is out on bail, a video emerges of him. He's surrounded by four women in lingerie. He's pretending to choke himself and making gagging noises. And he also is seen holding a Barbie doll and he twists the head off and says, oops, I think I killed it. 
Emily: [00:24:03] What? 
Liz: [00:24:04] Yeah. 
Emily: [00:24:05] Where is he? And who's taking these videos.
Liz: [00:24:08] I don't know. I don't know who's taking the video, but isn't that just first of all, how dumb can you be? 
Emily: [00:24:13] It sounds like he's a 
Liz: [00:24:14] psychopath. Yeah, he's got serious issues. And then when the trial began, Robert and his defense attorney stood by the story that Jennifer's death was an accident. And now obviously his parents have hired.
I think one of the lawyers is from Harvard. One was from Yale so they can afford the best. But the prosecution calls the medical examiner to the stand, to squash the story of that. It was an accident because Robert's version of the events did not match Jennifer's injuries and her cause of death. 
Emily: [00:24:41] Yeah. Oh, 
Liz: [00:24:42] the prosecution also brought up the fact that Robert just went home and went to sleep after Jennifer died.
Why would you do that? If it was an accident? Really? Yeah, 
Emily: [00:24:52] exactly. 
Liz: [00:24:53] Um, the defense claims that Robert had no reason to kill her because they were friends. And they say that his injuries were a product of rough sex and they tried to make Jennifer look like she led a very promiscuous life and they just start basically blaming her for her own death.
Emily: [00:25:09] Oh my God. They 
Liz: [00:25:11] scrutinized everything about her from how she lived her life to the clothes that she wore. And in his closing argument, Robert's lawyer said, quote, it was Jennifer who was pursuing Robert for sex. That's why we wound up with this terrible tragedy, her 
Emily: [00:25:25] poor father, 
Liz: [00:25:26] like. Sorry, fuck off.
That's 
Emily: [00:25:29] horrible. Also, you might get there, but do we know what his motive was? 
Liz: [00:25:33] Uh, no, there's no. So the jury goes to deliberate and they're deadlocked for nine days straight. And then the prosecution starts to worry that he might actually get away with this. So he strikes a deal with Robert that he would plead guilty to the lesser charge of manslaughter in the first degree.
And he would serve 15 years in prison. So Robert accepts that deal. Which is just sad. 
Emily: [00:25:54] How long does he actually go to prison for? 
Liz: [00:25:56] So he spent the whole 15 years in prison. He didn't get any time off for good behavior because he apparently caused a lot of trouble involved in multiple disputes. 
Emily: [00:26:06] Oh my God.
What an idiot. 
Liz: [00:26:08] So he was released in 2003, but was arrested one year later after he was caught driving with a suspended license. Police also found traces of heroin and cocaine in his system. And for that, he was sentenced 100 days. Which is really nothing. Oh yeah. In 2007, Robert is rested again, this time for selling cocaine out of his apartment and he sentenced to 19 years and his earliest possible release is January of 2024.
So about three years from now. 
Emily: [00:26:37] Okay. Three things, one, Holy shit. When this guy gets out, I know, cause we live in New York and clearly we still go to this bar. So I don't want to see him too. I wonder what the jury would have done. Or they will have found him guilty or innocent. 
Liz: [00:26:50] I know, but I understand that's not really like a risk you want to take.
Cause imagine you go through the whole thing, put the family through the trial and then he gets off. 
Emily: [00:26:57] Oh yeah. I think what the prosecutor did made sense, but I'm just curious. And then the last thing is his parents are. Just as horrible as he is the fact that they put up with 
Liz: [00:27:06] all this enablers. Oh my 
Emily: [00:27:09] God.
This all makes me so sad. 
Liz: [00:27:12] Now it isn't people talk about it. It's this whole story sort of brings to light, so many issues around socioeconomic status and how you're just so privileged if you're at the top. 
Emily: [00:27:24] Yeah. 
Liz: [00:27:24] And then white males, obviously just getting the lesser sentence 
Emily: [00:27:29] always. 
Liz: [00:27:31] Uh, and then the problem with victim blaming.
Emily: [00:27:33] That is so sad. I hate how you said they brought up what she wore during her trial or during his trial. Like that's should never be used as evidence that she did. 
Liz: [00:27:45] Okay. And I want to end on a last note that this has been brought up in pop culture, multiple times. The story one, there's been a few TV movies that are based on it too.
There was a law and order episode 
Emily: [00:27:57] about it. I could have sworn. 
Liz: [00:27:59] Yeah. Yeah. I think I remember it three. You know, the band, the killers. Yeah. They have a song called Jenny was a friend of mine from their 2004 album hot fuss. And that is based on this story. Did 
Emily: [00:28:12] they actually know her? 
Liz: [00:28:13] No, but it's just based on the story in general and how Robert defended himself saying I couldn't have done it.
We were friends. I had no motive. 
Emily: [00:28:20] God, I love the killers. 
Liz: [00:28:22] And for the movie American psycho. 
Emily: [00:28:25] Oh yeah. 
Liz: [00:28:26] Apparently Patrick Bateman, who is obviously the main character. Who is a wealthy, preppy, serial killer. He mentioned in the movie trying to start a defense fund for Robert Chambers. 
Emily: [00:28:36] Oh my God. 
Liz: [00:28:38] What's just like, in my mind, wait, 
Emily: [00:28:40] Christian, Christian Bell Christian bale.
That is so funny. So well down in the middle. 
Liz: [00:28:46] I know. And it just makes so much sense because Christian bale is the good looking all American, you know, banker who kills people. Yes. And he is saying we should start a fund for this kid. 
Emily: [00:28:56] Oh, my God. That's so funny. 
Liz: [00:28:58] Yeah. Um, yeah, so that's my story. 
Emily: [00:29:02] Great story.
We say this every time. It's New York, but close to home. 
Liz: [00:29:06] I don't know if I want to go back to Dorian's anymore. 
Emily: [00:29:08] No. Especially since the owner put up his bar as collateral. I know. 
Liz: [00:29:12] Isn't that wild. 
Emily: [00:29:13] Well, happy new year's Eve. Everybody. 
Liz: [00:29:16] Yeah. Happy new year's Eve. I hope everyone is celebrating in a safe way.
Emily: [00:29:20] What are you doing for new year's Eve? 
Liz: [00:29:22] I have zero plans right now. So probably sitting in my pajamas like I do every night. 
Emily: [00:29:27] Well, well, if you want hang out with me and my boyfriend and my sister, the three of us are just hanging out and watching the ball drop. So feel free to come over. Okay. 
Liz: [00:29:35] Okay. I'm down.
I love that. We're making plans on, on the episode. I know. 
Emily: [00:29:40] And you want to use listening, feel free to 
Liz: [00:29:41] draw. All right. Um, all right. I think that's it. Cheers. Cheers. .

Murder start