That's a Bad Sign

Murder of Lauren Giddings and Sophie Toscan du Plantier

May 20, 2021 Emily Winchurch & Liz Mahoney Season 1 Episode 36
That's a Bad Sign
Murder of Lauren Giddings and Sophie Toscan du Plantier
Chapters
That's a Bad Sign
Murder of Lauren Giddings and Sophie Toscan du Plantier
May 20, 2021 Season 1 Episode 36
Emily Winchurch & Liz Mahoney

Lauren Giddings was a 27-year old Law School Grad student in Macon, Georgia. She felt someone was stalking her, even noticing things in her home being moved around... Without much proof, she went on with life. Then in June 2011, her dismembered torso was discovered in a trash cart outside her apartment. Then we dive into the murder of Sophie Toscan du Plantier. The local police find a suspect very quickly, yet the evidence doesn't line up. So we have to ask ourselves, who committed this crime? And why are the police looking in the wrong direction?

Sources:
https://truecrimedaily.com/2017/04/11/law-student-murdered-dismembered-by-stalking-classmate-neighbor/
Dateline Episode “The Watcher”
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/7jm8gh/the_case_of_sophie_toscan_du_plantier/
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/the-story-of-the-sophie-toscan-du-plantier-murder-investigation-a-chronology-1.2158891
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/three-new-suspects-murder-sophie-23950293
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-complex-and-secret-private-life-of-fragile-sophie-26805384.html
https://gemmaodoherty.com/investigation/sophie-toscan-du-plantier/did-gardai-target-bailey-to-shield-sophies-killer/ 

Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/badsign)

Show Notes Transcript

Lauren Giddings was a 27-year old Law School Grad student in Macon, Georgia. She felt someone was stalking her, even noticing things in her home being moved around... Without much proof, she went on with life. Then in June 2011, her dismembered torso was discovered in a trash cart outside her apartment. Then we dive into the murder of Sophie Toscan du Plantier. The local police find a suspect very quickly, yet the evidence doesn't line up. So we have to ask ourselves, who committed this crime? And why are the police looking in the wrong direction?

Sources:
https://truecrimedaily.com/2017/04/11/law-student-murdered-dismembered-by-stalking-classmate-neighbor/
Dateline Episode “The Watcher”
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/7jm8gh/the_case_of_sophie_toscan_du_plantier/
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/the-story-of-the-sophie-toscan-du-plantier-murder-investigation-a-chronology-1.2158891
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/three-new-suspects-murder-sophie-23950293
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-complex-and-secret-private-life-of-fragile-sophie-26805384.html
https://gemmaodoherty.com/investigation/sophie-toscan-du-plantier/did-gardai-target-bailey-to-shield-sophies-killer/ 

Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/badsign)

Liz: [00:00:00] Hey, everybody. Welcome back guys. You're listening to, that's a bad sign, a true 
Emily: [00:00:05] crime podcast where we each cover a murder in these 30 to 45 
Liz: [00:00:09] minutes. They're not always murders 
Emily: [00:00:12] your rights. Sometimes they're called sometimes they're conspiracy 
Liz: [00:00:15] theories, anything dark and twisted. We cover I'm Emily and I'm 
Emily: [00:00:19] Liz.
And we will kick it off with recommendation corner. I think your 
Liz: [00:00:23] first 
Emily: [00:00:24] recommendation corner. Yeah, I have a cosmetics 
Liz: [00:00:27] recommendation. Okay. I love it. I kept getting 
Emily: [00:00:30] Instagram targeted for it's like a lip gloss that you put on and it's purple. And then you spray your lips and then you peel it off and it's a lip stain.
Do you 
Liz: [00:00:39] get those? No, but this is the second Instagram ad you've told me about since you walked into my apartment 20 minutes ago, I don't even, I know 
Emily: [00:00:46] the name of it, but you could probably Google it. So you put your lip color on and there, they have so many different shades and then you keep it on for 10 seconds and you spray it with this spray that they give you, and then it hardens and then it easily pulls off and then your lips are stained.
So I have it on now. And like, my lips are really pale, so that's why I do it. It's just so it's subtle, but then also it doesn't wipe away when you're eating or drinking. 
Liz: [00:01:10] Oh, I might actually get that. It looks good. Thank you. 
Emily: [00:01:13] Yeah. So that's my recommendation. It's some makeup thing. 
Liz: [00:01:17] Emily's all dressed for dinner.
I'm sitting here in a sweatshirt and my hair in a bun, but that is just how I look these days. So what's your recommendation? Okay. My recommendation is a show called manhunt. Unabomber on Netflix. Ooh, it's actually a couple of years old, but I had never watched it. And I was in a mood on Saturday. I was a little hung over looking for something to watch and you know what the Unibomber just caught my eye.
It is really interesting. It's not a documentary. It's more of like a reenactment, but it's so good. And it's so fascinating. There's a lot that I didn't know about the Unabomber. Um, you know, for example, like what he went through growing up and in college, but I won't get into that in too much detail because I feel like I might want to cover him one of these days.
How could you go 
Emily: [00:02:11] through anything bad in college it's college it's 
Liz: [00:02:14] shocking where kids mean to him? No, it was kind of like a social experiment that he was a part of, ah, at 
Emily: [00:02:22] Harvard. Oh, Oh, 
Liz: [00:02:25] it is fucked up. Wow. Now I have to see it. Know that's all I'm going to say. Go watch it.
this week, I'm going to cover the murder of Lauren Giddings. My references are true crime, daily.com and an episode of Dateline called the watcher. You love Dateline. I love Dateline and I just could listen to Keith Morrison. Talk about honestly, anything. Ah, he's great. Okay. In 2011, Lauren Giddings was a 27 year old law school grad student at Mercer university law school in Macon, Georgia.
She was actually done with school and was preparing to take the bar exam. She wanted to become a public defender because she wanted to help people. She was super bubbly and friends often compared her to Elle woods. She was blonde, big personality. Everybody loved her, but she was also super smart. Good for her.
So she lived in an apartment building right across the street from the grad school. And naturally there were a bunch of other law students living in that same building. So that includes her next door neighbor and also the buildings maintenance guy for some background on her dating life. Lauren was dating a man named David who was 20 years older than her, but they lived in different cities.
So they actually took a break for awhile. And during that time she dated someone named Joe, who was her age at law school. She dated someone 20 years older than her. Yeah, they met when she was interning at his law firm. Oh, so he's like a silver Fox. Yeah. I mean, I have no clue what this guy looked like, because I watched, I listened to this on a podcast.
Um, yeah. So anyway, they broke things off because it was long distance. So then she dated this guy, Joe, who was also a law school student. Uh, he was kinda more her speed just because obviously the ages make more sense. However, she really couldn't let David go. So she eventually ended things with Joe and got back together with David.
So at the end of June, 2011, all of the seniors had graduated from law school at this point. And they're all just in study mode to take the bar. One Friday night, Lauren went out with her friend Ashley and they were having kind of a last hurrah at a local bar. Like a bunch of students were, yeah. After they left the bar, they went back to Ashley's boyfriend's apartment.
And Ashley's boyfriend happened to be roommates with Lauren's ex Joe. Oh no. So Lauren ended up sleeping in Joe's room that night? No. Okay. I mean, yeah, there was alcohol involved, whatever. Oh yeah, yeah. The next morning, Ashley doesn't see Lauren, but she just assumes, you know, she's in Joe's room. So after that party, everyone kind of went into their own study holes, which was normal, obviously for law students.
So a few days passed before people started to realize that they hadn't seen Lauren since the night of the party. Oh my God. So this kind of comes to light when Lauren's friend Katie, who is her friend from growing up, she sent her a few texts and didn't hear back from her. And she eventually called her and Lauren's phone was dead.
So she. It was just a little confused by that because normally I know she was studying, but normally Lauren would get back to her. So Katie contacted Lauren sister Kaitlin. So then Kaitlyn knew that Lauren was, this is very confusing with all the names. Yeah, I get it. Essentially. The sister reaches out to Lauren's friend, Ashley from law school.
She says, can you tell Lauren we're looking for her? You know, no, one's heard from her in a few days and we just, you know, want to know if she's okay. So Ashley went to Lauren's apartment and knocked on the door, but nobody answers. She's not really all that concerned at this point because she figured Lauren was just probably out for a run or was somewhere studying.
However, a few hours later Lauren's sister reaches back out to Ashley and says, all right, this is like kind of an emergency at this point. We really need to know where she is. So Ashley and her boyfriend went back to Lauren's apartment and they opened her apartment with a spare key. I'm so nervous. The apartment was pitch-black and Lauren's purse ID, cell phone and laptop were all in the apartment, but Lauren was nowhere to be found.
We heard the other weird thing is that the apartment wasn't packed up because Lauren was supposed to be moving out of that apartment the next day. Also, 
Emily: [00:07:00] I know she was slept at that guy's place, but sounds like she 
Liz: [00:07:02] came back. Yeah, exactly. We'll get there. So then her friends got in touch with David, her current boyfriend.
And he said he hadn't heard from her in a few days, which I thought was weird. Yeah. He didn't think anything of that. Her friends also found a receipt in her apartment from a fast food restaurant that was timestamped from 600 8:00 PM on Saturday. So that was the day after the party. Oh, okay. But that was from Saturday and now it's Wednesday.
Tabs tabs tabs. So they call the police and the investigation begins into this missing person case. What had happened to her. Did she get into an accident when she was out for a run? Like her apartment did look like she could have just gone out for a run because you know, you don't necessarily need your wallet or anything.
Yeah. One theory that her friends had was that it had something to do with time. She spent visiting prisoners. When she interned at the public defender's office, they thought, I don't know if someone may be. God too close to her, or it was a little too interested who knows. Yeah. Got out and attacked. Her.
Her friends also remembered that Lauren told them at the party on that Friday night that she thought someone was stalking her. Oh my God. Tabs. Yeah. And they didn't take her seriously because people were always paying extra attention to her because that's just the kind of girl she was. But take your friend seriously.
People. They also checked her computer and she had sent an email to her boyfriend, David, the night before she disappeared saying that she thought someone was trying to break into her apartment. She said, she thought it was, she used the word hoodlum, like a neighborhood kid. Yeah. But still very alarming.
Oh my God. When police couldn't find anything concrete in Lauren's apartment, detectives were brought in along with a crime scene unit. Now cramping units aren't necessarily always involved in a missing persons case, but in this case it was so odd, the S the circumstances, um, and she disappeared into thin air.
So they decided to bring them in. They found no sign of forced entry and said it was as if someone had just walked out the front door. However, when one of the investigators was looking at the outside of the apartment complex, he smelled something. Awful. No, and very distinct. So he walked over to the dumpster area and he found a garbage bag filled with human remains.
Oh my God. But the worst part is that it was actually just a woman's torso in the bag. Oh my God. So this just went from a missing persons case to a homicide. And back in the apartment, they sprayed luminol in the bathroom and it absolutely lit up the hearing, the investigators talk about it. They said it was so crazy.
It looked like the bathtub had been filled up almost to the top with blood. Oh my God, I'm going to be sick, but they couldn't find any like fingerprints or any hairs or anything like that, which was also strange. It's like, was this a professional? Yeah. It's like someone clearly wiped it down. Yeah. So police kept the news of the body quiet and they brought all of Lauren's acquaintances down to the station for questioning.
So they basically come at it with this angle who is closest to Lauren, both personally and physically, they interview the maintenance man who works in the building. Who is also a student. He says he hadn't seen Lauren in a few days. They also interview her next door neighbor, Steven, who says he also, hasn't seen Lauren in a few days and they're both like, you know, we're all busy studying.
It's not, I didn't think anything of it. Yeah. Police also interviewed a running buddy of hers who was at the party with her on Friday night, but he said, no, I haven't seen Lauren since Friday. Then they take a closer look at the men that were closest to her in her life who are David and Joe. And potentially like, was there a love triangle situation because Lauren did end up sleeping in Joe's room that weekend.
So potentially David found out, got pissed and killed her. Yeah. But that 
Emily: [00:11:29] doesn't explain the stalking or the hoodlum. 
Liz: [00:11:32] Right. But that's all they have right now. So they interviewed both these guys. Joe says that Lauren had, yes, she had stayed in his room the night of the party, but then she left the next day and said she was going to spend some time at a local country club.
Um, because they had a pool. How 
Emily: [00:11:51] is she getting 
Liz: [00:11:51] into a country club? I'm not sure, but I was jealous that, so the police obviously check this out because they want to make sure. That Lauren, you know, left Joe's room alive. Yeah. They look into it and they found a credit card charge from her credit card at that pool.
And they also have the receipt in her apartment from the fast food place the next day. Yeah. So they think, okay. I mean, maybe Joel met up with her later again, but it probably didn't happen the night of the party. Yeah. Now David told the detectives that he couldn't have done anything to her because he was in California.
The weekend Lauren disappeared. Airtight alibi definitely is. But police found it really suspicious that he hadn't called her or checked in on her in, I don't know, the past four or five days. Yeah. But he's also an adult, I guess, but I would be pissed if my boyfriend went five days without communicating with me.
Yeah. I don't know. They also know that she and David had problems in the past and that they did break up for a little bit. And he said, yeah, but that's just because I was scared of committing like classic and you're like 40. Yeah, seriously. He literally is like 45. Okay. So police say they're going to check on his alibi and then they're going to circle back with him, but he's pretty good.
They also interview all of her girlfriends. I don't know, have a ton of detail on that because I don't think they thought it was one of her girlfriends. So all of these people were kept in the dark about the body being found. So then they get back to school slash the apartment complex. And they're kind of shocked because they see that it's completely swamped with reporters.
Like everywhere. So then some of the friends slash neighbors are talking to the media, specifically, her next door neighbor, Steven was talking to one reporter and he's saying things like, yeah, we've looked all over for her. We can't find her. And the reporter says to him, well, while you guys were all downtown, they found a body and his reaction is very suspicious.
What does he say? They say that his face went like completely Ashin. That's not surprising. No. Yeah, because you can be obviously like in shock, if one of your friends and or acquaintances goes missing and is murdered, but they said it was really weird. Like he ended up having to sit down and he was staring into space for like a really long time.
I mean, I feel like that'd be a normal reaction. There's actually a video clip. That you can see. I can describe it very well clearly. Um, but it's, it's strange, but right. You don't know how someone's going to react to the, this kind of news. So it's hard to say, however, Steven had already let the police search his apartment with cadaver dogs and the dogs actually did show some interest in there, but not enough for them to really have any concrete evidence, but that now combined with his very strange reaction to hearing that there was a body.
They're like, okay. Time to come back downtown. 
Emily: [00:15:03] I'm not liking him for this one, but we'll say, who do you think it is? I kind of think it's some random, 
Liz: [00:15:09] but, okay. So when detectives are questioning him, Stephen can't look them in the eye and he answers everything with a simple yes or no. And while he's being questioned, there's another search happening in his apartment.
Oh no, no blood was found in there, but they did find, this is funny. It's not funny. It's just weird. They found condoms, which wouldn't be odd for someone who he's 25, except that he had told the police that he was a Virgin and he was saving himself for marriage. So why would he have condoms? Maybe he uses them when he pleasures himself.
I also was confused about how that even came up. I know, but whatever. So police are asking him, listen, where, why did you have these condoms? You clearly told us that you are not having sex and you have no intention to. And they said he just sat there for a while, like thinking. And then he admitted that he stole them from two of his neighbors apartments.
Why. I don't know if he gave an excuse, but now they can charge him with burglary. Oh my God. Like really stupid. So in addition to researching Steven's room, they also researched the entire apartment complex, including a maintenance closet in the basement. Inside that closet, they found a Hacksaw with a little bit of blood on it.
As if someone had tried to clean it off, but didn't do a very good job. Wait to Steven, 
Emily: [00:16:46] the maintenance guy? 
Liz: [00:16:48] No. Okay. So naturally now they have to request the maintenance guy. Yeah. Because he had a master key to all the doors and the apartment complex as well as that closet. So they bring him in for questioning.
He says that is not my Hacksaw. And also I have an alibi. So, yes, he has an alibi. I don't know exactly what it is, but the police buy it, whatever it is. And then in Steven's apartment while the search is still going on, they find two keys. One was a master key to the building. What, and the other one was a key to Lauren's apartment, but they also found a pair of women's underwear don't like that, which they later confirmed to be.
Lauren's no. And they also found the packaging that the Hacksaw had come in. Oh my God. 
Emily: [00:17:40] All right. I was 
Liz: [00:17:41] wrong. So throw away the box idiot. Yeah. This kid is an idiot. Like you love cops. I mean also shame on the cops for not seeing that he had a Hacksaw box, but whatever. Why would he do this? I don't know.
But at this point they know that Steven's their guy. So on August 2nd. Five weeks after Lauren's disappearance slash death, Steven McDaniel was arrested and he pleaded not guilty. Everyone's really confused because he seemed really harmless. Um, not like, right. Not like someone who would be so violent that this isn't even just a murder.
He dismembered a body. Oh yeah. He had no criminal record at all and all of their evidence was circumstantial. So the da was pretty nervous that he might get off. He says, I was so nervous that this would be a case where everyone knows who did it, but you can't actually prove it. Yeah. Like OJ Simpson. Yeah.
So at this point, Steven and his attorney are actually pretty confident that they could raise enough reasonable doubt. And when the trial okay. However, When the Georgia Bureau of investigation first searched Stephen's computer, they didn't find much, but then they got new software and searched it again.
Oh my God. And they found proof that he was obsessed with sadistic pornography murder and dismemberment. My 
mind 
Emily: [00:19:17] is 
Liz: [00:19:17] blown. Yup. Now this is still the circumstantial. Yeah. So then the FBI examines Stevens' digital camera and Oh boy, there was a deleted video of Steven spying on Lauren. The last night she was alive.
This guy is such a creep. I know. And listen to how creepy this is. He had taped his camera to a LA. Okay. I'm picturing him outside the apartment building right now. Yeah. He taped his camera to a long stick. And raised it up so that he could peer into Lauren's apartment and see if she was home. Ah, 
Emily: [00:20:02] Oh my God.
And she thought he was just the 
Liz: [00:20:03] friendly neighbor. Yeah, this is so great because he has a key to her apartment that is so disturbing. And she says at one point she had been on vacation or something. I don't know, spring break or something. And she came back and she felt like her things had been moved around.
Oh, but she just thought nothing of it. Oh my God. I'm freaking out. So after this video comes to light Steven and his lawyer realized they're not going to get out of this. Yeah. So in April of 2014, Steven finally made a deal and he pled guilty. He said he came into Loren's apartment at four 30, am wearing a mask and gloves.
And he walked over to her bed. She woke up and she yelled, get the fuck out. But then he attacked her and strangled her to death. He then dismembered her body and scattered her remains in trash bins throughout the apartment slash law school. And he almost got away with this because. The only reason the cop found that garbage is because the trash guys relate that day.
Oh my God. So 
Emily: [00:21:17] he thought the trash is going to pick up. That's why he was so 
Liz: [00:21:21] surprised. Exactly. And I mean, proof that it could've worked out, they were never able to find any of her other remains like head. No anything. So that is so 
Emily: [00:21:34] sad, horrible, just a twisted guy who happened to live next door to this girl.
Liz: [00:21:41] So the da says that Steven had been planning this murder for a long time and he thoroughly enjoyed it. And many people think that he would have become a serial killer. Yeah. So he is in prison for the rest of his life. Thank God. And he was studying to become a lawyer. Yeah, that's I actually didn't even put that together.
That's horrifying. That's Ted Bundy. Yeah. He 
Emily: [00:22:07] was trying to be like Ted Bundy is what I'm getting 
Liz: [00:22:09] from that. So creepy. Wow. Yeah. That's my case. All right. I gotta take a sip of water, 
Emily: [00:22:18] Liz. That was a good case.
Liz: [00:22:29] all right. 
Emily: [00:22:29] Hi everybody. We are back and I am doing a murder, which was recommended through Instagram, by our followers, Stella. So, 
Liz: [00:22:38] Hey, Stella, big shout out. And I know we say it all the time, but please keep sending in recommendations. We love it. 
Emily: [00:22:45] Now, usually before we actually record, I will look up things that I don't know how to pronounce, so I pronounce them.
Right. But I didn't have time. So I apologize for all the most pronounced deviations, but it will happen. I am doing the murder of Sophie Toska and do plant year 
Liz: [00:23:05] sounds right. To me. I'm like staring at Lewis for approval. Yeah, sure. Sure. 
Emily: [00:23:10] My sources obviously include a fight on Reddit. The Irish times, the Irish mirror, the Irish independent and Gemma.
Oh, dardy.com/investigation. 
Liz: [00:23:23] All right. So a 
Emily: [00:23:25] bit of background. The year is 1993 and Sophie is a French producer, married to a French film, mogul Daniel Toscano do plant here and she buys a holiday home in God. I apologize again, dry name, near tour, more outside of shul. 
Liz: [00:23:46] Where 
Emily: [00:23:46] does that? So she and her husband, they're both really big in the film world.
They have a very busy life in Paris, so they buy this country home, which was in Ireland. Got it. Okay. So she goes there to escape from her busy Paris life. Very fucking cool. Sounds glamorous. I know. So they buy the house in 1993, but now it's 1996, two days before Christmas. And Sophia is found beaten to death in a pathway by her house, by her neighbor.
She's in her nightclothes and has died from multiple head injuries, which seemed to be from a rock when the police get there and investigate, they find a few other details inside the house. There were two wine glasses by the sink, which leads us to believe she might've knew her attacker. Also, she apparently tried to flee from the Truder, but was caught and brutally killed when her clothing.
Tragically snagged on a barbed wire by the roadside. 
Liz: [00:24:43] Oh no, he's not so 
Emily: [00:24:45] sad. Now word gets around the small town quickly that Sophie was murdered. And just two weeks later on January 11th, a woman named Marie feral anonymously calls the police saying she saw a man around 3:00 AM on the night that Sophie was murdered.
On a bridge near her house. So this is the only clue the police have because there wasn't that much evidence at the scene and DNA wise. So they have this anonymous call of a sighting of a man. 
Liz: [00:25:13] Yeah. I saw a man is not great evidence, 
Emily: [00:25:18] but it's something. So they go to the press and they say, whoever that anonymous caller was, please call again.
We want to have Mark get more info. So she calls again and she tells him some more details, I guess, just like reiterate her story and they say, can you please come in? We know this is an anonymous call, but can you come in like maybe work with a sketch artist or something? And she says, let me think about it.
So she calls back and honestly again, a third time and she says, no thanks, but no thanks. I'm not going to come in. However, this woman who is calling anonymously from a payphone, the third time she called from her house. So the police were able to track it. So after this third anonymous phone call, they find out that it's Marie Farrell and they show up to her house and bring her in for her.
Liz: [00:26:07] Are they allowed to do that? I think so. I mean, I guess I don't know anything about Irish law. I, I 
Emily: [00:26:14] mean, yeah, they traced it it's her fault to be honest, like honey, don't. Get lazy on your third day. So, I mean, nothing really comes of it. They just get a better sense sky we'll circle 
Liz: [00:26:27] back to that, actually.
Emily: [00:26:28] Okay. So now another two weeks after that initial anonymous call, so now we're up to February 4th, a school boy named Malakai Reed comes forward saying that he actually gave this random guy in town. Whose name is Ian Bailey? A lift home one night. And Ian came forward and started bragging saying he killed Sophie saying quote, he went up there with a rock and bashed her fucking brains out.
Um, well, so now this is the second person to come forward with some evidence and he apparently has a confession. Now, Ian Bailey isn't liked in town. He's actually an English man. So he's a foreigner and apparently he's really arrogant and. It seemed like he was just very snobby and his idea was like, I'm going to leave England to go to the Irish countryside.
And he kind of thought everyone is like simple. And he was this big city guy. And like people got that impression from him. So no one liked him. 
Liz: [00:27:23] Okay. 
Emily: [00:27:24] Good to know. So now that someone's coming forward and saying, Oh yeah, you know, the douchebag around town, he actually murdered her. The police say good enough for me.
So they go and arrest him, whoever after questioning him for a few hours, they decide to release him without any charge. Because they have this random, like it's hearsay. Is 
Liz: [00:27:42] that the word? Yeah. This guy could have totally made it up. Yeah. The 
Emily: [00:27:46] police keep investigating any year later, they circle back and they rest Ian Bailey again.
However, the same thing happens. They questioned him for a while and then they let him go without any charge. So clearly the police aren't getting anywhere on this investigation, but now fast forward, three years later, and we're 1999, a French filmmaker named guy Guerard who was friends with Sophie comes forward and says Sophie was on my really good friends.
And she told me that she had a friend in Ireland called Anne Bailey. Who's exploring themes of violence in his writing. So what this is about three years after the murder and Ian Bailey's name has come up. Yeah. 
Liz: [00:28:26] Curious. Definitely very interesting. Cause I'm just thinking about that second wine glass.
Exactly. 
Emily: [00:28:32] But I mean, Ian's coming forward and he says, I don't know this woman. I never met her. I, the first time I heard about the murder is when I reported on it. Cause he was a writer and a reporter. So he's saying he has nothing to do with it, but two different people have come forward with his name. So it kind of like begs the question is C the murder or is there some random coincidence?
Like people knew he got arrested to the friend just kind of makes something up. Cause he wants to see someone put away. Who knows  well, even though we don't know that the truth that doesn't stop people from talking. And I mean, everybody, not just the people around town, the press attacks and Bailey, and they say he's a serial killer.
Who's walking among us. We are not safe. And the press just goes after him. And not just in this local town, because remember Sophie was French. This is also happening all over France. So. What is this? It's been years later, they don't have any suspect, but now the public has deemed that Ian Bailey is a murderer.
Liz: [00:29:27] Gee, that's going to suck if he's not the murderer and he's just internationally known as a serial killer. Well, I think you're going to 
Emily: [00:29:33] get there. You can tell my opinion. It's now we're in 2003 and Ian Bailey actually files a lawsuit against eight newspapers over them, linking him to the murder and he loses six of those trials, but he wins two.
But part of those trial, all these witnesses come forward. Some of them are for Ian saying that he didn't do it, and some of them are for the newspaper. And one of the witnesses is Marie feral, the one who is the anonymous caller. And now she's saying, I saw a man. At the scene of the crime. And then the later I learned who Ian Bailey was, but that's when I realized that he was the man I saw.
So she's changing her tune. She's not saying I saw a random man. She's saying I saw Ian Bailey at the murder scene. 
Liz: [00:30:17] And then, sorry, this is how many, this is over 10 years later. Like seven years later. That's tough changing the two. Yeah. Especially in a recalling, like in memory recall that is. Not the most reliable as we all know, 
Emily: [00:30:32] but then she takes it farther and says, not only was it him, but he's also been threatening me and he's threatening me on these separate occasions because he wants me to recap my story, but I'm not going to do it however, This turns out to be false because she comes forward to all these stories of one Ian threatened her and people.
He has alibis for these times. So people are coming forward and saying, you know, your stories, aren't really making sense. Is there something that we should look closer into here? And she says, okay, fine. You caught me actually, the police in Ireland, when I came to them with my saying that I saw somebody, they told me to say it was Ian Bailey.
And they even blackmailed me because the reason why I never wanted to come forward was because I was cheating on my husband. 
Liz: [00:31:16] Oh 
Emily: [00:31:17] my God. So when I saw this man, I was with my lover. 
Liz: [00:31:23] This makes sense. 
Emily: [00:31:24] So when the police found that out, they actually blackmailed her and they said you were going to come forward and say, it's Ian Bailey, or else we're going to come forward with your affair.
All right. So let me just pause. I guess all we know here is that Sophie was murdered someone she knew. This is a very small town police. They immediately go to the local guy that everyone hates years have passed and nothing I think has moved 
Liz: [00:31:47] forward. Talk about corruption. So, so, 
Emily: [00:31:49] uh, let's see. Okay. It's 2007.
Take even farther. Ian Bailey then sues the minister for justice, the Garda commission for wrongful arrest, false imprisonment, conspiracy assault, battery trespass, harassment, intimidation, and breach of his constitutional rights. 
Liz: [00:32:04] Wow. I can't say I blame him. So now 
Emily: [00:32:06] public opinion of him starts as split.
Some people think, yes, he's innocent. Obviously he's going to court and he won't let this settle. You know, if you are guilty, we kind of want to sweep it under the rug. And then other people say, no, he's an arrogant prick. He just loves all the attention. He did it now, 2011. This is when your murder took place.
Yes, it is the French police go over to Ireland and reinvestigate the crime scene. Like over a decade later and they interview 30 witnesses, however, nothing comes of it. And essentially the French police were trying to solve this cold case and they fail. But then four years later in 2015, the French officers try again.
And apparently after interviewing more witnesses and reexamining the police, they say, yes, we have evidence that links and Bailey to this. So they go back to France and they try to extradite him and put him on trial for murder. Now, obviously this took place in Ireland. Ian Bailey is an English citizen and they want to prosecute them in France.
It clearly doesn't work. So they tried to extradite him and he says, no, thanks. And the country backs him up. 
Liz: [00:33:16] So then I will. Thanks. I'm good. So 

Emily: [00:33:21] didn't know that this could happen, but on May 27th, 2019, France holds the trial of Ian Bailey in abstentia for the murder of Sophie Toscano plant here. So they have the trial without him there.
And this is worldwide news because trying somebody who's not there, can't present a side of the story. Everyone kind of thinks that this is just like for show, just to get a guilty verdict. 
Liz: [00:33:46] Yeah. So there's just no defense at all. Um, 
Emily: [00:33:48] he has a defender, but it's a French citizen who like, goes into it saying like, I don't think I'm going to win this.
So the French trial happens and he is found guilty. He sentenced to 25 years in jail, but it's more symbolic because he's in England and he's obviously not getting extradited. That is like a really long winded way to give you some background on Ian Bailey, who up until the last few years, like worldwide was thought to be guilty.
So 
Liz: [00:34:16] wait, Ian, Ellie is the only person that's ever technically found guilty of this crime. Yes. Okay. In France 
Emily: [00:34:23] also, we always say the husband did it and we haven't once throughout the 
Liz: [00:34:28] husband, I was about to say, I don't know if we clarified whether or not he was there at the time. He wasn't 
Emily: [00:34:33] there at the time.
He has an alibi. And they just had a really weird marriage. They both cheated on each other. It seemed like it was an open relationship, but some odd things are, he never came to Ireland to examine the scene or click the body. And within months of her death, he was expecting a baby with his new Serbian lover who then became his fourth wife.
Liz: [00:34:55] Not a great look. 
Emily: [00:34:58] And also Martin O'Sullivan apparently is another eye witness who says, uh, he drove by her house that morning and saw a blue car speed away. And he thought it was odd. And then when he found out she was murdered, he went to the police trying to give a description of the car and the police already had Ian Bailey.
So they didn't bother taking a statement. And he went back trying to tell them what he saw and the police just didn't follow 
Liz: [00:35:23] up. That is making my blood boil. It's so frustrating. So 
Emily: [00:35:27] we don't know what happened to Sophie. However, there are two new documentaries coming out in 2021. Uh, one is by Netflix and the other one is by sky studios.
I don't have a date for them, but they're soon. 
Liz: [00:35:39] Ooh, that's very exciting. 
Emily: [00:35:42] I don't know much about these documentaries. I watched the preview and I, I did some research. And what I did think was interesting is that they do give alternate suspects because of all my research, I just couldn't figure out who would have done this.
And. The program, narrows it down to three different people. One who is an Irish local, who moved to another part of the country, another person who was French, which makes sense because she was French. And then also a third who was just a complete foreigner. That's 
Liz: [00:36:09] all I got. Wow. This is so interesting.
Emily: [00:36:14] You're such a speak my worst nightmare. It kind of lines up with, uh, what was her name? The foreign, uh, the American student who was studying. Oh, 
Liz: [00:36:23] um, Amanda Knox 
Emily: [00:36:24] and she was hated. Yeah. Press went after her. And I think, you know, this is still up for debate, but like, I think she's 
Liz: [00:36:32] innocent. Yeah. I have gone back and forth quite a few times on the subject, but I think she also is innocent.
Emily: [00:36:40] I, yeah, you're a foreigner and you're linked to a crime. Like it's not looking pretty for you 
Liz: [00:36:45] scares me. It really does. Well, thanks, Sam. That was a very good story. 
Emily: [00:36:50] So everybody just make sure to follow us on Instagram 
Liz: [00:36:53] or else and write us a review. Yes, please. Imaginary, cheers or drinking water. Cause we're lame today.
Boom, bye guys. Bye .