S3E38 | Carrie Olaje - Child Sex Slave Survivor on Core Split Programming, Dissociation, & D.I.D

This is a throwback episode to honor the amazing Carrie Olaje who has been super busy and can't wait to start podcasting again! I wanted to shine a light on her testimony (and first ever episode we did together) as it generated tens of thousands of views on my last YouTube channel before it was terminated and then was reuploaded to this channel. She is absolutely phenomenal. Let's revisit Carrie's second podcast and public disclosure...

---------------------

This week I know you are all going to be just as excited as I am to have back on the show: ritual abuse, human trafficking and mind control survivor, mother, entrepreneur, tattoo cover-up extraordinaire, artist, gallery and tattoo shop owner, upcoming podcast host of her own YouTube channel, and walking miracle: Carrie Olaje ( @carrieolaje )

Carrie was born into a multi-generational incest-based family and from a young age was sold into government and military-sanctioned mind control programs with the goal of making her a child assassin, sex slave, and ritual butcher - just to name of few of her jobs. Her abuse was perpetuated initially by her father who then passed her on to other owners and handlers who furthered her programming, trafficking and ritual abuse. If you missed her incredible testimony - it is a MUST WATCH. Her story had a tremendous impact on me and I was so thrilled to see so many of YOU commenting in length how her story impacted you personally.

We prefaced Carrie’s last interview with a ‘trigger warning’ because one of the things she did - which we haven’t done on this show much - was go into graphic detail about specific rituals she was used in along with artwork she created for visuals to further explain the rituals. This was an extremely impactful way to explain something most of us listening cannot even begin to imagine or comprehend. We received so many comments and on how many people were able to understand on a deeper level. I’m going to preface this episode as well with a ‘TRIGGER WARNING’ as well because this time around, Carrie will be doing an even deeper dive into programming, rituals, core splitting, dissociation and so much more. Our hope is that this information furthers your deeper understanding on these topics whether you are a survivor or an advocate. It means so much to me to see your support of the podcast guests and I just want to say a quick ‘thank you’ to everyone listening for uplifting, supporting and validating each guest who has the courage to get on this podcast to share their testimony. It just goes to show, everyone has a story.

Now on her healing journey, Carrie said it best when she stated the following: Quote: “I feel like they’ve honed a sharp weapon… and now it’s pointed at them”. A testament not only to how far she’s come, but also to how powerful it is for a trauma survivor to take back their power and realize that the God-given gifts they were given that abusers tried to exploit can be taken back and used in a very powerful way to change the world. Another quote of Carrie’s: “If I saw my abuser on the street - it’s HIM that would be scared of me” Wow… If you missed her incredible testimony, I’m going to link it below - please go watch it was so powerful!

I wanted to give a reminder that if you are a survivor or whistleblower who wants to share your story on the podcast or wants to share any information privately with me, you can now email me at IMAGINEABETTERWORLD2020@GMAIL.COM! Please send me a briefing of who you are and how I can support you whether it’s through podcasting or sharing information. All of my social media and donation links are also in the shownotes. Your support across multiple platforms and financially make a huge difference in what I’m able to accomplish with reaching more people and having the means financially grow this podcast.

🔗CARRIE'S PLAYLIST ON 'THE IMAGINATION':
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoojlrL9wVRO1KGiUKpKBLzbk6wtuAiAM&si=Pqt_NnKxdycmBy6K

🔗CONNECT WITH CARRIE:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@UCdgtjL2cFCGqP2OCvi9wCGA

🔗CONNECT WITH EMMA:
-YouTube: @imaginationpodcastofficial  - https://www.youtube.com/@imaginationpodcastofficial
-Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/TheImaginationPodcast
-EMAIL: imagineabetterworld2020@gmail.com OR standbysurvivors@protonmail.com
-Substack: https://emmakatherine.substack.com/
-BUY ME A COFFEE: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/theimagination
-VENMO: @emmapreneur
-CASHAPP: $EmmaKatherine1204
-All links: https://direct.me/theimaginationpodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Heavenly Father, today we put on the full armor to protect us against attack. We put on the belt of truth to protect against lies and deception. We put on the breastplate of righteousness to protect our hearts from the temptations. We put the gospel of peace on our feet to walk in your light, peace and freedom with the Holy Spirit. We rebuke anxious thoughts. We take up your shield of faith for protection to block and destroy all the darts and threats thrown at us by the enemy. We put on the helmet of salvation to cover our minds and thoughts, reminding us that we are children of a mighty king. We are forgiven, set free, saved by the blood of Jesus. We take up the sword of the spirit, your living word, that has the power to demolish strongholds and is sharper than any double-edged sword. We come to you, Lord, in prayer daily. In Jesus' mighty name we pray. Amen. What's up, you guys? Welcome to The Imagination. I'm your host, Emma, and this week I know you are all going to be just as excited as I am to have back on the show ritual abuse, human trafficking, and mind control survivor, mother, entrepreneur, tattoo cover-up, extraordinaire, artist, gallery, and tattoo shop owner, upcoming podcast host of her own YouTube channel and walking miracle, Carrie Olahe. Carrie was born into a multi-generational incest-based family from a young age and was sold into government and military-sanctioned mind control programs with the goal of making her a child assassin, sex slave, and ritual butcher, just to name a few of her jobs. Her abuse was perpetuated initially by her father, who then passed her on to other handlers who furthered her programming, trafficking, and abuse. If you missed her incredible testimony, it is a must-watch. Her story had a tremendous impact on me, and I was so thrilled to see how many of you commented in length how her story impacted you personally. We prefaced Carrie's last interview with a trigger warning because one of the things she did, which we haven't done on the show very much, was going into graphic detail about specific rituals she was used in, along with showing artwork she created to further explain the rituals. This was an extremely impactful way to explain something most of us listening cannot even begin to imagine or comprehend exists. We received so many amazing comments on that video on how many of you were able to understand on a deeper level programming and um sorry, just lost my thought. Hold on, I have to pause this. My screen just like blacked out. Hold on. Heavenly Father, today we put on the full armor to protect us against attack. We put on the belt of truth to protect against lies and deception. We put on the breastplate of righteousness to protect our hearts from the temptations. We put the gospel of peace on our feet to walk in your light, peace, and freedom with the Holy Spirit. We rebuke anxious thoughts. We take up your shield of faith for protection to block and destroy all the darts and threats thrown at us by the enemy. We put on the helmet of salvation to cover our minds and thoughts, reminding us that we are children of a mighty king. We are forgiven, set free, saved by the blood of Jesus. We take up the sword of the Spirit, your living word that has the power to demolish strongholds and is sharper than any double-edged sword. We come to you, Lord, in prayer daily. In Jesus' mighty name we pray. Amen. What's up, you guys? Welcome to The Imagination. I'm your host, Emma, and this week I know you are all going to be just as excited as I am to have back on the show Ritual Abuse, Human Trafficking, and Mind Control Survivor, Mother, Entrepreneur, Tattoo Cover-Up Extraordinaire, Artist Gallery, and Tattoo Shop owner, upcoming podcast host of her own YouTube channel, and walking miracle, Carrie Olahe. Carrie was born into a multi-generational incest-based family and from a young age was sold into government and military-sanctioned mind control programs with the goal of making her a child assassin, sex slave, and ritual butcher, just to name a few of her jobs. Her abuse was perpetuated initially by her father, who then passed her on to other owners and handlers who furthered her programming, trafficking, and ritual abuse. If you missed her incredible testimony, it is a must-watch. Her story had a tremendous impact on me, and I was so thrilled to see so many of you commenting in length how her story impacted you personally. We prefaced Carrie's last interview with a trigger warning because one of the things that we did, which we haven't done on the show much, was go into graphic detail about specific rituals she was used in, along with artwork she created for visuals to further explain the rituals. This was an extremely impactful way to explain something most of us listening cannot even begin to imagine or comprehend. We received so many comments on how many people were able to understand on a deeper level programming and ritual abuse and human trafficking. I'm going to also preface this episode with a trigger warning as well, because this time around, Carrie will be doing an even deeper dive into programming, rituals, core splitting, dissociation, and so much more. Our hope is that this information furthers your deeper understanding on these topics, whether you are a survivor or an advocate. It means so much to me to see your support on this podcast. And I just want to say a quick thank you to everyone listening for uplifting, supporting, praying, and validating each guest who has the courage to get on this podcast to share their testimony. It just goes to show everyone has a story. Now, on her healing journey, Carrie said it best when she stated the following: quote, I feel like they've honed a sharp weapon and now it's pointed at them. Unquote. A testament not only to how far she's come in her healing, but also to how powerful it is for a trauma survivor to take back their power and realize that the God-given gifts they were given that their abusers tried to exploit can be taken back and used in a very powerful way to change the world around them. Another quote of Carrie's If I saw my abuser on the street, it's him that would be scared of me. Wow. If you guys missed her incredible testimony, I'm going to link it below. Please go watch it. It was so powerful. Before I finish introducing our guest, I wanted to give a quick reminder that if you're a survivor, a whistleblower who wants to share your story on the podcast or who wants to share any information privately with me, you can now email me at imagine a better world2020 at gmail.com. Please send me a brief intro of who you are and how I can support you. And all of my social media and donation links are also in the show notes. I'll have that all linked below for you guys. So without further ado, please help me in welcoming this week's guest of honor, Voice for the Voiceless, Fierce Mama Bear, Walking Miracle, Anti-Child Abuse Advocate, Creative and Artist, Overcomer and Survivor, the One, the On, Carrie Olahe. Carrie, thank you so much for being here with me today.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Thank you so much, Emma. I um couldn't believe I was here the first time. I really can't believe I'm here the second time. So thank you. You know, thank you again for having this platform. You know, it was huge for me and uh, you know, my healing just because it is very hard to find this kind of content, especially directly from survivors um anywhere, you know, except for like like a few um who have like spoken out and written books. So being able to see like the complete like weight of like all of our voices is something to me that has been incredibly healing and incredibly hopeful too, that like we're gonna create some sort of awareness. And that's like the first step to solving this problem, you know, of people that are, you know, haven't had the chance to heal, um, like me, even though I'm like I am very honest with people that I am still on my healing path, you know. So I as much as I am kind of love coming on to like really like vocalize my experience and the experience of victims that haven't had a voice of the things that happened to them. Um it really when it comes down to it, like I just want people to understand that like I'm not an expert. I'm I am like I'm not like I'm gonna I am planning on giving some tips for sure on what helped me to heal, you know, in my experience and my views on what I experienced when it came to the trafficking and the rituals and stuff. But that's one thing I just want to let people know is like not to find um not to see me as the only source of information, you know, that you have a lot of, you know, is just because there's been a few people that did in comments, like you say, you know, this is the first time that they had that the other than this all the support from the survivors, those were the ones that stuck out to me, like and really like hit my heart, you know, so much was just finding out, you know, that there was a couple people that said that they hadn't believed in the existence of, I don't know, they didn't say specifically like ritual abuse, child pornography, snuff pornography, um, mind control, you know, uh um traumatization of kids to create like essentially mind-controlled slaves, like all that stuff that was all part of um my experience growing up. So that to me is a huge part of like why it's so hard for survivors to come out is you really believe that there's gonna be this attitude of disbelief, and your abusers tell you constantly that you're gonna be disbelieved. So it's you know, from a very young age when you know you you're gonna believe them a hundred percent. So, you know, to to really like to come out and see so much support for me was incredibly healing. It's what I experienced, you know, before when I first came out about the incest, and I had trusted, you know, in God and um my higher power just, you know, yeah, I trusted in God that this, that that would be the case, you know, this time as well. And that really, even if it wasn't, that I just had to do it anyway because it's the right thing, it's the right thing to do. Um, you know, so the comments, you know, that did say, you know, people had believed this is a real thing for the first time really was some of the things that was very motivating to me because it's something like I said, it's not just awareness for people who haven't gone through this, it's also awareness of this in like the public or the survivor community, if especially if you're like, you know, earlier on in healing, having this knowledge that there's like an atmosphere of understanding and not that you're immediately going to get called crazy, you know, for having really extreme experiences that are different from everyone else's, you know, that to me is like what makes it feel like we're we're, you know, when I look at a decade ago to now, like we're making some serious headway, you know, in being able to not just heal as survivors, but to try and heal like society as a whole, you know, and actually, you know, like I said, I constantly come back to the fact, you know, that, and that was a huge motivating factor for me, that that there are kids still in the situation that I was in, you know, in the situations I'm gonna, you know, go over more today, um, that are still there right now. Like, you know, it could be your kid, it could be your son or daughter, basically, it could be, you know, it could be anyone, really, and to know that, you know, they're not just gonna be there for for uh, you know, a week or something, you know, it's not like it's not like a two or three or five-year jail sentence, you know, it's like this is gonna be like 18 years of their life unless they run away sooner, you know, like or you know, or maybe longer, you know, if you if you have the experience that means that, you know, that uh handlers continued to essentially uh pick me up, access me, you know, in my training and stuff, and continue to abuse me even past, you know, the time that I was like a consenting adult, you know. But at that time, it really is they're still calling up, you know, a a part of your mind to take over that is essentially still a child, you know, it's still just like a traumatized child and it's still just as easy to manipulate, you know. So um, you know, the memories that I have that are post-18 are the most difficult for sure. Like, not necessarily for any other fact that it's like the hardest for me to like forgive myself for understanding, you know, how even knowing all the things that go into programming a kid to be, you know, what they made me, you know, as a child and then later on as an adult, you know, it's still very hard to still even like wrap my head around, you know, because it is. It's like it's the worst, it's the worst shit you can imagine, you know. And that is still some of the questions that we will address on, you know, the later QA that we'll do about like the questions that people submitted to you that I would love to elaborate on and everything that, you know, that's that's still one of the questions, you know, is is snuff corn real? And that's one thing I have to say is like a definitive, yes, it is. Um, you know, some people, you know, in mind control situations, you know, where you're really gonna have to traumatize a child like very thoroughly, like there is, and and there's a lot of use of drugs and stuff, there is circumstances where they're gonna simulate stuff, you know, like they're gonna simulate killing, they're gonna simulate injury, they're gonna simulate a lot of different things that isn't real, you know. Usually in my experience, if that's the case, it's like it's intentionally part of like the manipulation, you know, because then like that person suddenly gonna be alive again or something like that, you know. So it's it's there to essentially manipulate your perception of reality and question it as a kid. Um but um, or in my experience, just from I heard secondhand, you know, of um cults and stuff like that that don't have the same level of power, you know, to where they would be able to get away with like, you know, accessing multiple children, you know, or babies or animals for sacrifice and then you know, being able to then dispose of bodies. Like that's like a whole chain, you know, big old chain of events, essentially, you know, that that has to take place. But you know, you using drugs, you can definitely create simulation that of of things, um so that people have, or so that kids especially, you know, have the experience, you know, LSD plus all the uh you know, all the props basically. You could create it, you know, definitely the experience where a kid would question, did I, you know, did I hurt someone, did I kill something, did I not, for sure. So um, but that's not really what we're gonna be talking about today. So um that's you know, that's that's for me, um, in my experience, you know, that that is still gonna be a certain level of trauma that's gonna have like a profound effect on a kid. So I'm really not um minimizing that either, you know, like really like, you know, even just telling kids about horrible things and letting their own imaginations do the work, you know, if like you're someone can really do the trick a lot of times. But um when you have like circumstances like this, which is essentially you're trying to intentionally create uh not just a kid that's gonna be abused by their own family, but is gonna be abused by multiple people, maybe used to blackmail people, or then later on like used in like more violent things. Um, what you really need to happen is like is you need the real thing, basically. Like it has to be like it has to be really founded on um like the most extreme forms of like of child abuse ever, you know. And that's one gap that I'm hoping that like my testimony will fill, you know, that to be honest, I'm not saying it's just me. There's plenty of survivors that have like that have um gone over basically the um extremes of child abuse that that occur. Um, but it still feels like even with all those testimonies, that's still the gap that's in, you know, in the community of people that are willing to look about this, look at this stuff and learn about it and everything, it still feels like that's where there's like this disconnect is that there's still this like idea of dissociation and you know, mancharian candidate stuff and beta sex can stuff. It all has this very like Hollywood kind of appeal, uh like facade to it, basically, that makes it seem like, you know, like that still I hear people say, you know, it's something that, you know, it could just, you know, they they could just pick up an adult and do it too. And it's like, yeah, even if that's the case, like where someone had no mind control experience, you know, and was picked up as an adult and went through really extreme experience, experienced Stockholm syndrome, and it's now like, you know, kind of has like a different part of themselves that thinks uh completely differently about the world and it's gonna behave that way. Like the person's ability to do that is gonna be based off of how much they were abused as a child anyway, you know, like that's and whether or not, you know, it was the organization doing the traumatization early on or just like the kids' early life experiences, you know, like that's gonna be the degree to which someone, you know, can get essentially turned into a slave. So this still, you know, to me, this like idea, like I've mentioned before with like split, where it's like they don't like, you know, the idea that that there's gonna be really drastic changes, you know, and that, you know, in my experience, then we didn't go even a little bit into like the amount of trauma that would have to be experienced for someone to have like that like level of presenting like DID, which is like insanely rare. You know, when I want to explain to people what the difference is, especially for a DDNOS system where the intention is that we're gonna be a little less detectable, both by our own system, but then also by outsiders, you know, um the you know experience of a switch, or like if people wanted to see like a switch, like you could essentially look at like like our bathroom break mark in uh in the first testimony, basically. So um most people will see that it was probably a little bit easier to listen to the second half, the second half of the interview, you know, than the first half. Mannerisms are a little bit different, but the thing is they're not gonna be drastically different to most people, to where if I hadn't pointed it out right now, like most people wouldn't notice. They'd just be like, oh, like you were a little more nervous than the first one, you know, or the first half, you know, using um, you know, my filler words like you know or like a lot more, basically giggling a lot more. But a lot of that stuff, you know, it's like there's like a very specific part that was like created to interface with the public by my, you know, by my abusers, essentially. And that's, you know, it's gonna be very dissociated from any negative emotions. It's everything is gonna be a joke. Um, typically very a little bit younger presenting and a little bit ditsier. So there's gonna be lots of likes and you know's and all that stuff. But like I said, I'm still gonna have a little bit of that, a little bit of that now because I'm I'm on a podcast talking. But it's it's there's a difference in the more grounded version of of me versus a more dissociated version of me, basically. And and that's the thing, like my easiest way to describe it to people is that, you know, we I kind of described in the first one that we have the different um, you know, compartments that are sectioned off. But um for especially for like DDNOS, you know, the experience a lot of times for me, I describe as a car. You have like someone who's in the driver's seat of the car as in control of like the body and mouth, basically. Um, and then you also are gonna have someone in the passenger seat, and then maybe like two or three or four kids in the back seat and everything's everyone's, you know, it's not like the driver is like an isolated like um entity, basically. But usually you are pulling like a trailer, I would say, of like all the other parts that are in the subconscious that haven't been triggered for a while, you know, that that are a lot more like like not accessed unless something in your reality kind of triggers it. But essentially that's a lot of times, you know, people's experiences, a certain like blending of parts where you'll have like a part that's in the driver's seat. And in my experience, um, you know, first half of the interview, it really sucks when that's the case because um it feels it feels very much like you're on a roller coaster ride that you don't quite have like the uh ability to control, essentially. So that's why it's part of why it took some time to get grounded, essentially after um after like the halfway mark-ish, essentially because it was something that I was aware was happening um and needed to kind of like put the put the brakes on. But essentially, you know, that like that kind of subtle shift that you might have seen in my behavior, you know, that's like the shift of like one part taking the driver's seat versus versus another, you know. Usually the other part that was in the driver's seat will now be in the passenger seat. So you'll still have input, like, you know, like everyone loves a backseat driver, you know, but but it's that's typically like a lot of times how it works. And for DDN OS, the reason they they do it this way is that um you essentially want to minimize like full switches and unless like is triggered by daily events, unless it's like a very it's triggered by your handler, essentially. They don't want if you if you're a kid that has all these sexual skills or all these violent skills or all this different stuff, you don't want that just like coming out in daily life. And there were plenty of ways that it did when I was a child, like come out like, you know, little things that it was just very weird to people, you know, that I was so sexual or so, you know, like um you know uh phobic of different things or you know very dissociative, you know, which was like they always said I was you know in la la land basically, you know, so I was always just kind of like you know daydreaming and stuff. So but that's how it, you know, like I said, that's how it how it presents. It's not something like big like I don't you know change your clothes and then all of a sudden, you know, like obviously different parts and feel more comfortable in different like items of clothing. But generally we're gonna dress for like the part that's going to be you know interacting most of the day because that's how they're gonna be comfortable, you know, so that's that's really just kind of like the um I guess kind of how I wanted to go over just kind of explaining you know the experience just experience of dissociation you know for myself and just to help people like to kind of see you know how you know even if they're helping survivors in their own lives you know that it's you know you're you shouldn't necessarily be expecting them to talk in baby voice, you know, or something like that. Like that can definitely happen. But in general you should pretty much assume that like all of the parts are always like always around and like always listening and just be talking kind of like respectfully. And that goes for like us too as survivors you know sometimes the front person can have like you know not the best attitude for for parts that we're getting to know you know so and that's like that's like normal to be like that sometimes with new people you're getting used to if it on the outside world that's very much how it feels on the inside world too you know sometimes. So yeah. Um but uh that was um I mean a long like really a long-winded way of just being like I am like insanely grateful that it seemed like me sharing like did exactly what I had hoped you know that it did uh it seemed to help um clarify some things for people as far as like I don't even know just the to me it's like you know the landscape of like the organ the organized version of child abuse and you know um mind control and pornography you know and then also giving some context to things that might be like weird to people like the new world order type stuff or something you know um because like I said I just I I I don't always chalk up a lot of reality to those things a lot of times like when it comes to both the rituals and when it comes to new world order stuff or anything I like recognize that these are kind of the belief systems that are naturally gonna come out of psychopathy basically so um so yeah I mean I um the only event you know that I had wanted to go into that I hadn't gotten to go into before well had chosen not to basically um because it's still an event that I am uh processing myself. Um I so it's sometimes hard to talk about. But I decided that it's something I wanted to talk about today mainly because um I think that it'll give a really I don't know it's it's basically the memory that I have of um like the main uh kind of like torture event that was created to be like the, I don't know, essentially like the the memories that all of the other parts would then be based off of. So most of my later programming events that I had all talked about on my original testimony um a lot of them would use things that would reference events that had happened um in this initial like programming uh session. So I would say you know with something like this it's like there's you know there's definitely like a main part that deals with it, but there's also multiple parts and that's very intentional from them is that they're a lot of times that with this stuff they're gonna create um a different part around each trauma specifically so that you know then you could um re-trigger that part with the same trauma, you know, and essentially you know kind of keep keep working with with it essentially with as far as training and um just going to say or having it just you know come out to do whatever the job was that the that the handler was interested in. So I'm gonna grab a drink of water. Do you have any um any questions or input or anything before I like keep rambling on.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

I just wanted to say I can understand how people got a lot out of what you said because you really do have a gift for explaining things that are really hard in a very simple way just like that car analogy that you used that even for me like furthered my understanding of that because I never heard it worded that way. So it's another tool that I can add to say oh that makes sense to me like I've sat in all those seats in a car and I know like how I feel in relation like when you're the driver you feel a certain way when you're sitting passenger like you almost have certain roles you know like you're gonna you you're gonna tune the radio or turn the you know turn the volume up whatever it is um and then sitting in the back you know so I just want to say that I love how you do that because I think that really helps click things in people's minds where they say oh that makes sense that's that's something that I've done or that I can imagine doing where what she's explaining happened to her I can't understand. I can't my mind can't go there but my mind can be in a car and I can picture how those different roles feel and so it's like a way for people to relate to something that they've never experienced. So I wanted to comment on that because I think you do that very beautifully and I think that like that's a natural gift for you is educating on hard things and like simplifying them. So and I want to thank people too like oh my gosh the outpouring of support has been amazing. Because I you know I just delete bullies like I don't put up with you know comments unless unless there's like a healthy dialogue going on where like you know you can see people improving the conversation and people can read I don't mind a debate for sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

You know I a part of me definitely like has no problem you know having hard conversations you know with with people for sure you know because I think that's like needed you know so it's something that I've got like after a while I've gotten used to doing but like you're saying on a certain level sometimes things are just not productive.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Right. They're just they're the bully you know and so like I don't tolerate that. So there was a couple people that I did you know there's there was a couple comments that I deleted but 99.9% of everybody like some people were disclosing their stories and it was so blown away with all the support you know and and I appreciate everybody who sent in questions and we will get to those like Carrie said we're gonna do a little QA towards the end. One question though I did want to ask you Carrie before you get into what you were doing because I've actually had this asked to me a bunch of times some resources or some interviews but I I have a feeling that there might be people that ask this after you were just talking about dissociation um can different parts so each of them has different role in a sense so they have different skills can they also have different maybe physical attributes like could one part maybe be left handed another one's right handed?

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Could one identify as like having blonde hair you know or like some type of a different attribute and then another one doesn't obviously you know are there like different ways that or like eyesight's different with one with one part than another part you know better or worse can things like that differentiate between parts also or does that stay mainly consistent so that's a that's so that's kind of a tough one I will say that I have heard of things like that like really drastic physiological differences you know that occur but to me that does tend to fall in the category of Hollywood for the most part. I have always just heard it in passing you know it's like it's like people have mentioned it but it's like have never said that that was their particular experience but when it comes to skills for sure so you know like so that's like you know like you learn to ride a bike you know or you learn like you know like if you were a chef you learn like a certain like chopping skills or different things like that you know like so if you were to put the knife in the hand of someone you know and be like chop these carrots like the same way of a knife as the chef you know like their hand could be anatomically the same as the other as the the chef's hand but because there's no like knowledge you know there's no like mind body awareness on how to achieve the thing there's been no practice or anything like that you know you're not gonna get you're not gonna get the same results you know so it it's more in my experience it's more like that like so like there's like parts that are really great at like maybe you know that were made to be like sex kitten type stuff if you were to ask them to cook like you're just gonna get something really someone really cranky and something really burned you know versus like I opened a restaurant that like I you know had like and I and then closed it you know within a year because I timing was wrong like I was pregnant and I was doing all these other things too. So but you know I close that with like with like five stars and stuff like that. So it's like I know how to I know how to cook I know how to make a recipe and stuff but like I said it's like you know it's it's very it's very particular you know like what it's more that when one part switches in it feels like what the body feels comfortable doing will be completely different you know so you could have you know a star athlete and then a total like you know artist book nerd you know but they're actually in the same body you know and it's more about how they use the body than the body physically changing you know so that's I think that's like the main way that at least for me like you know dealing with like the more soldier type memories and everything like that was one way that for me was very validating but also very you know just trippy basically really like freaky to be like you know like I don't know how to hurt someone you know but then when you're dealing with these flashbacks coming up and you're dealing with that part you know like that part has a lot of training that I like wasn't aware of as like the front person until I started dealing with all the with all the flashbacks around it essentially and then it will and then it will in my experience you know with like some integration of the memories it will it will bleed in you know to where like now it's like some of like the weapon skills have come back you know and like and that's something you feel crazy and and then you like you pick something up you know and then you're just like okay like I guess I do know what I'm doing a little bit and it freaks you know it freaks you out a little bit and you're just like okay but that's you know it's it's validating on the same level as everything else is and you know and it there's a lot of things that you can't explain until you have your flashbacks and then it's like okay like well that that makes sense now. So so for me like I right now like you know in this you know setting and everything like knowing how to like you know how to fight someone with a knife like not going to happen. But like if someone were to run in at me you know trying to fuck me up like and the adrenaline kicks in like that's for sure going to happen you know like like as far as because and that has even in my experience been some of my my experience essentially like when I was in a a dog fight basically you know and that I think I might have mentioned it last time um you know but it was a triggering event in just like in recent years, you know, I think it happened maybe like three, four years ago um but it was uh you know a a dog that I was essentially um my dog, you know, that was attacking another one of my dogs. And during the you know during the fight, you know, it really was like the internal battle essentially you know I I'm still dealing with the situation but you are typically still having like you know a very like insanely regardless of how like uh traumatic whatever's going on out here it's like the conversation usually is very like rational basically so essentially you know my you know like main part of myself essentially who's trying to get one dog off of another dog who's trying to find a non-lethal way to do this because I love both of these dogs that are that are in the fight you know um but the part of me that had been trained essentially to handle a knife and had been you know around like vicious dogs, you know, or trained to be a vicious wolf or stuff like that, you know, like when they see the same situation, they're like, this is a threat. We need to neutralize it. So it was like it, you know, it despite you know wrestling on the ground and I had like I had to get stitches like 10 stitches across my finger because like right in the very beginning I had like tried to pry her off and obviously that was bad idea. I got like you know my finger sliced open you know but like I said I like it it's kind of kind of sucks. Like I go into like you know into take care of business like robot mode like when it when it comes to like high um adrenaline situations basically so in that in that situation that part of me was like let's just go in grab a butcher knife and we'll just end it you know like just grab one of the knives from the kitchen you know it's like and it was like the whole time it was I was trying to deal with the dog fight but then I was also like I was also dealing with this internal battle you know of of a part of me that really just wanted to you know to essentially grab the knife and use it how we essentially had been taught to use it. You know, at that time it was before I had had most of my ritual abuse memories come back. So it was like a time when I still had a lot of like gaps in my life it was incredibly triggering and it that's part of why like that whole event for me as you know just like a survivor just dealing with all that stuff anyway, you know, it would, you know, it's it's gonna be traumatic. It's your dogs if you're a dog person, you know, an animal person, you know, it's like they're your babies, you know so and I feel bad because the one that did the attacking she just had a screw loose in her head you know we had talked to trainers and stuff like that. But she like she came from a line of like you know it's it's the genetic side of things, you know, that on the certain for certain things not for pit bulls in general but for her specifically you know she had a line of fighting dogs you know and you assume that's not going to matter you know but it was a consistent problem with her like despite everything, you know um and I still loved her. She was my princess you know but you know so so that that's just an example you know of of you know how same body you know you're gonna have completely different ways they they want to handle the situation and completely different like skills you know too because it's like the part of me that was that was in charge and handling the situation was trying to hold back you know the more like psychopathic feeling part you know like that that um that part I mean like they don't have any understanding of each other's skills they don't have any each other's each other's emotions or anything. So for me, you know it's like a lot of people that have the experience of like persecutor parts, you know, or like the common DID or like you know parts that are mauled after abusers or seem like they're demonic or psychopathic or something. That was part of the trauma of the event for me is just like what is wrong with me that I was like that I that I was thinking about killing my own dog. You know what I mean? Like even regardless of the situation or anything, you know so it was like you know it was dealing with like the you know the trauma of the dog fight but then it was also dealing you know as a survivor you end up having until you have contacts for like these emotions for these parts that feel the way they do until you're able to work with them and heal them some it's really hard because it you like you don't have contacts for stuff and it just ends up feeling like it it becomes really easy to believe the things that the abusers have told you which is that you're evil that deep down you're just like them you know that basically that there's you know that you know that you're you're just a piece of shit and a killer you know and that's like and that's you know essentially what I had lived with my whole life you know and having no context for it most people see me as very I've always been a very sweet you know hippie artist you know bookworm kind of girl you know very academically focused and stuff like that. So um you know the thought my you know main self in life of ever hurting anyone or anything is like is completely foreign you know so um so long-winded answer for yeah not I don't have any specific experience of stuff like that you know most of the time like if when you're saying they'll definitely be identifying as different things though internally so and that'll have like a lot to do with what it'll feel like the physical characteristics are of the body you know so if like it's a sex part I'm gonna feel a lot more confident essentially in my body um versus if it's like you know a part that's like deal that was there to deal with trauma or is a more like masculine or male part, you know, if that part comes out, you know, they're not gonna feel super comfortable in like this little female this little female body you know and even like the sex parts when I was pregnant like oh my God like that was like that was hard not to have like to for to get like really contextualize for them you know like the pregnancy thing you know and like and you know couple of the parts like were like uh like especially when it came to like the more um the more front persona um one that's usually interacting with the public you know that's the one that always had issues with like um body dysmorphia you know and eating disorder kind of stuff and everything so like for her to see like you know to look look in the mirror and see like a pregnant body was like was really hard you know and it was but it was also really healing because it it was an opportunity to then work with like that part of myself you know and really recognize like you know why do we have these unrealistic expectations and like it's a different kind of beauty and everything. And and it was it was really healing. That's one thing that I I really push people to to looking at the hard stuff in their life and looking at the things that they haven't wanted to work on and heal is because as it kind of feels worse until it gets better for sure. But like when it gets better it's so much better. You have like you know to for me to like be able to like walk around in a bathing suit like the first time like it was like maybe like three, four years into therapy and it was like a water park I was walking around in a bathing suit and it was like the first time I hadn't like thought about how much my thighs were shingling or something. You know and it was just like it was just like wow like this is so nice to just feel like comfortable in my own body and not like not feeling like you know like there was all these like these anxieties and dialogues going on you know and just like it was just it was just crazy you know and it wasn't something I had expected to happen. You're so used to living with with stuff you know the way it is but it's you know you're when you're dealing with trauma on this level like if you're a survivor like it really is like the fish in the water situation. Like your whole experience of like how you craft your view of yourself the world everything has been so fucked from so early on that it like it takes all it takes a lot a long time you know like as Ed mentioned before I'm seven years into trauma therapy you know it takes a while to get grounded and there's always still going to be times where like you're really not you know like and you have to you know that you're just gonna be kind of white knuckling it until till you're through to like the next the calm period you know but yeah wow that was a really great answer. I appreciate you answering that because I think that can be confusing for people too you know but in a way even somebody who's not fragmented at all like we have a personality that we take to work and that's what we do for eight hours people listen to music to get in the mood you know like that kind of thing you know like to kind of like trigger like the like to get themselves like amped up into like a certain you know people do have the experience of like a work self a friend self you know a family self like that kind of thing and it takes the environments or things to kind of like trigger like you to be behaving you know in that way.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Yes a hundred percent thank you you said that better than I could sorry to interrupt no that that was perfect thank you for explaining that because I was trying to wrap my brain around it but I was thinking gosh like I have you know there's there's things that I can't say or do like out at work or around certain people but like if I'm just chilling at home and there's nobody around like I'll be more open and more myself and you know we all have like these different personas in a sense that we like you said adapt to with our environment. So I think if people can internalize that about just themselves and then try to context of like maybe just not being as conscious of it, you know, or having it be a little just a different dynamic of, you know, of switching though, of switching that, you know, it's really not that hard to think about it being uh something that we can internalize and conceptualize. You know, like I think the way that you broke that down, it it can help other people understand how it's possible that that can happen if they're like, that sounds too crazy. You know, like there's no way that our brains and our bodies can do that. Well yeah they can, you know, and you did a really great job breaking that down. So I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Well and it's like take that and then add like a blackout drunk. Like if people have had an experience with that, you know, like that's like that's pretty much you know like what you're gonna have like with dissociation is that you're you know there's also going to be like a chemical and physical thing going on in here because of like that's PTSD, you know, it's like it's different than a normal experience. You know, it's not just normal work day or normal family day, you know, it's the the splitting like for it to happen, it requires something that's like so traumatic basically that it really does require you know your brain to be like, okay, if I'm still going to be able to have you know a self that interacts with family, interacts with school, interacts with like mom and dad, you know, even though dad is nice sometimes and other times like horrible, you know, that's why it's like you know your brain essentially creates the blackout drunk, you know, like during during that, you know, that moment of intense trauma to be like, oh shit, this is something that like that you're not going to be able to like mentally like live with, be able to remember like spiritually, emotionally, like physically, you know, because a lot of times we dissociate pain, you know, so there'll be that was one thing that I missed, you know, in that answer, you know, is definitely different parts in my experience have different pain, you know, so like that's a lot of times how I'll know like what parts are like triggered. They have a lot of body memories, you know, so you'll you'll deal with a lot of survivors have things like that they consider like more fibromyalgia or different stuff like that. But a lot of stuff I really think is especially if you're a ritual abuse memory, a lot of it I think like joint pain or different stuff like that is going to be like just the body memories of being raped or being like tied up, you know, a lot of times like at like joints or stuff like that. So in my experience like almost all my physical like like pain like health issues that I've had like have all been for the most part like like uh psychologically triggered you know by different parts essentially and a lot of that too is very intentional by the abusers to essentially like create like bar like physical like really painful physical and emotional barriers to accessing those emotions you know they kind of have these like these like um like uh they're trying to build into the system kind of like these backup systems you know to where they're gonna be using your own body your own brain your psychology a lot of things against you you know and they know that in a trauma memory like they'll be able you'll essentially be able to call back up a feeling of being tortured you know essentially you know and that's like and then that's like what they'll what they'll intentionally program in you to anytime your mind starts wandering in the you know making a connection to something it's not supposed to that's supposed to stay isolated in a way and in your subconscious unless they want to have access to it then you'll start experiencing you know a lot of like physical symptoms. So like sometimes you know people will have the experience of having a headache and then it's suddenly going away you know like as like the part switches you know or different pain sensations, you know, energy levels like all that stuff you know is like it can be really drastic, you know, like like one moment to the next when like a switch happens because like all of that is linked to to the thing. But like yeah so but so it's like it's more about the physiological experience I think though for the survivor than anything than anything that could be noticed by like an outsider too much. You know there's where things like posture mannerisms different things like that will typically you know um that will definitely change for thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

Like I said you just have such a a gift for explaining these hard things you know and I'm sure people that are listening are like you know just having these light bulbs come up in their heads so I appreciate you thank you well thank you.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

I mean um that's like where like I said the fish in the water situation that's why I really appreciated you taking the questions from people is just because I um you know it's my whole life it's really big it has so many different facets to it and understanding where it is I could fill in some gaps for people that's actually helpful or like where I'm maybe not being as you know explicit because you know you just it's hard to explain your own experience you know in general. So um but yeah um so thank you. Um so sorry I'm gonna grab a drink of water real quick and then um if you want um we don't need them quite yet I would rather get into the uh event a little bit first um just because um the photos might be a little bit triggering for myself as well. The main reason I want to include them though like with anything is that like like for one, it'll give some context to what journaling is and that's the like when you're journaling and you're dealing with like the shit that like we are as like as like you know ritual abuse or like we're you know trafficking survivors, you know, there's going to be some really horrible disgusting things in your memories you know and and the degree to which you're holding back those things in or pushing them away in your journaling typically is kind of the degree to which you're kind of preventing yourself from healing because we still have this idea this very childlike idea that like it's still happening we can't do anything about it we're in an unsafe situation like all of that stuff you know is is part of it. So that's one thing I like to say you know is that you just don't like you really don't hold back into my experience like that's why like like these images you know of victims that like I'm gonna be showing like are essentially like you know for me like the worst parts of the memory you know are but that really for me is like what the thing is that's the most like healing when it comes to journaling basically because it's you know that part of you like that's the thing that it's like fucking lived with for like decades you know and felt like you know like like it's like a part of yourself you know as a little kid felt like they could never share would never be understood you know all this different stuff or that like for the rest of the parts that don't hold it that it's like why would we want to go back there? You know that's how it feels like in healing. But the thing I have to just keep telling people is that whether it's journaling you know for me it's always whether it's writing or painting it's it's always got to start with the worst parts because they're gonna be intrusive until you deal with them, you know, in my experience and you'll start dealing with a lot of like physical symptoms because of it. But also because um like for me that's part of the healing is essentially like like these are three victims who never had their story told you know and if this is like the way that like I you know can just you know also not just tell my story but tell theirs and have people like really understand like how fucked up this stuff is and like how necessary it is for us to like like like I don't know like create like I really think that I know people want names and stuff but you know really until we have like a a level of awareness in society that they're you know in my experience have tried approaching law enforcement different things with like you know not the greatest results you know and and lawyers different stuff like that you know I have some in my I have some in my court you know but still it's like you know like there's not as much as you can as you can really do. So like for me right now like I really am confident that like awareness is like is you know what you're working on you know with your podcast. And I really feel like in general like with people that are just advocates that are willing to just like be open with people in their lives about like you know knowing about this stuff or anything like it really is like the thing that is going to create you know some justice for the like the victim and everything. And then also like create like an attitude we just need an attitude shift you know and awareness and the the like society in general you know because I know that you know as people find out about it people are not cool with it. You know that national security be damned no one's okay with like with like systematic child like rape and torture you know like so and and that's the thing that that it it really it really is you know so um yeah so yeah um but uh yeah unless you unless you have anything else I'll I'll just kind of get into um the kind of like a little bit of the context with that memory.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

Absolutely yes um there was one more thing that I was gonna say um I think going off what you were saying where society kind of stops at a point I think that's why these analogies to relate it to something that people can physically feel see and just kind of use their proprioception and like representational systems to to process I feel like there's a point even with like you know the words human trafficking like that's a broad term now people are aware of it where maybe five 10 years ago like nobody had really heard that term really it's pretty mainstream now.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

But there's also a block even with with those words where people dissociate the fact that it's happening in their communities they just picture oh well that just happens in you know these third world countries that just and so there is like there's a big disconnect with people realizing like how close to home it is and I think part of that is people are really afraid to consider that but that's why testimonies like yours are like you don't even want it like I mean who wants to think about this kind of stuff for like for more than like a few seconds like it really takes like I think it takes like that's why the awareness is like important because it really takes like a level of awareness like in general for someone to finally be like okay I can't not think about this and you know it's like I've heard about it too many times like all right I've got to like you know see like see like what's what's up with this or something you know that it's you know and and an attitude though too like of within society you know that you're not gonna be called crazy by your friends for talking about something like this you know even just as like you know as just like an ally or something because you know we're still we're still we're dealing in my opinion with like the reducts of of the satanic panic right now. And most people are referencing the satanic panic right now as if that was a thing then when you know when you look into all the stuff that happened then there was there was a lot of truth to a lot of things you know and a few people that had gotten falsely accused were very publicly you know sacrificed on the on the altar so that they could essentially make it seem like everyone was making things up you know but really you know that's that's how we got to this place of you know insurance companies like suing therapists out of treating dissociative people you know like in the satanic panic time you know and being the false memory syndrome foundation coming out as essentially a PR campaign that was created by pedophiles you know to essentially say you know anyone who was being accused of this stuff was you know being falsely accused and it was all therapists you know so and the thing that's really sad is like you know they recently had a couple that was like released after being falsely accused after 15 years in Texas or something. And it's all it's all shit in my opinion that's just there to kind of like rehash that narrative basically that anyone who thinks that ritual abuse is a thing, that occult style abuse is a thing, you know, like anyone who sees that stuff as like a thing is is crazy, you know, and just like you know like you'll believe anything you hear on the internet and it's like there's like there's so much evidence for this stuff. You know law enforcement has tons of evidence for this stuff. CIA leaked documents have tons of evidence for this stuff. FOIA documents have tons of you know but it's it's still you know for decades you know and but I I am confident you know that um you know that with with a bigger understanding of the problem people understand it more as what I'm hoping they understand which is just organized crime. Like no one has any issue understanding like shit around organized crime and it's literally this is just the same thing but it's like but the goods are like create more way more damage you know because we're talking we're not talking about drugs or guns or something like that. We're talking about you know like innocence essentially so um but yeah um on that note uh so I guess like with this like I'll I'll kind of give like a a little bit of context like a little bit of a recap I guess on where it falls into like the general timeline of my story. If you you know hadn't watched my first testimony I would recommend it. It's way too long but there's a lot of stuff that I went through and that's even you know that's a the tiniest little like you know that's the tiniest little snippet of it you know that I could give to give like a good view of like what um kind of like what the different abuses I went through really entailed throughout my life and everything. But uh an event that I hadn't talked much about I had mentioned was like the core splitting event. And this is something that you know everything's gonna, you know, all of my programming kind of like references back to basically and it's gonna happen really early because of that you know and so for me it was essentially like multiple times to have like multiple traumas combined. So um I had mentioned before you know that I was military kid both my parents were in the military um my mom is like a very sweet but also she was very like abused and kind of like blind individual like when I was growing up basically um my dad is um a sociopath you know so he has uh zero empathy and but he's very good at looking very um charming and uh you know accomplished and and all those things and they were both in the medical field in the military. So because of this they went several my mom left several times um to do training um where my dad would be left with me essentially as like a single parent for like you know sometimes several months um on end so uh this particular trauma for me um like and that's what I call it's just the I just call it core splitting event you know this particular trauma like for me was um timed with like a bunch of different things so essentially the first time that she left we had just moved to Texas um I had had uh you know some initial like uh kind of my dad had always sexually abused me since then since an infant, you know, but it wasn't more damaging things. So the first time that I had dealt with anything a little bit more invasive or damaging was at Walter Reed in in Washington DC and that was about a year or so before we moved to Texas. And I had mentioned in the last interview that Texas is where essentially like all hell broke loose, you know, for me because it was essentially feeling like I had been, you know, um and this is why we need the awareness feeling like I had been kind of like plugged into an assembly line of child torture basically and that it's a the whole experience as fucked up as it was for myself it's like the whole experience to me has a whole nother layer of fucked upness to like my adult self to realize how like I was just one of so many kids that went through the same shit essentially you know and and many kids that went through worse stuff because as you'll see they you know they use some kids to make examples of them for other kids. So um so for so for me you know it was in essentially initially going to um going to uh uh Texas shortly after we had moved there my mom went on like her first trip basically and so it was dealing with the trauma of that first you know like mom not being around um my dad was usually on like fairly good behavior if my mom was around but as soon as she was gone you know it's like I saw a completely different side of him you know he just kind of like turned into a bachelor was very neglectful um you know like really was not didn't was not very interested in me except for you know like maybe like the facade of playing to like initiate like sexual abuse or stuff like that you know so you know he like I had mentioned before like his um like his preferred form of abuse typically was to like was to you know orally rate me while he was watching snuff films. And the snuff films were typically you know people being um like burned or like injured in different ways, you know, sometimes suffocated and stuff. So um so I had I did have some initial you know trauma um for sure. You know like they're you're they're always interested if you're gonna be used for mind control and like like always using the kids as of sociopaths and pedophiles and stuff because they really want a kid that's you know that's split early you know so um but um so I would consider this event more like their like what they wanted to do as like their main trauma event essentially to kind of like really kind of like anchor in um uh some like you know very powerful very afraid parts you know of of myself that would be easy to manipulate as you know the abuse continued later on. So after several days of being you know a couple days with my dad being you know a different kind of version of dad essentially you know and dealing with like the trauma of my mom being gone it was being taken to um what was essentially like a a children's hospital like a wing of like it you know it was a wing of a hospital that was like um like a children's ward you know had lots of colorful things on like the walls and stuff you know like remember being taken to kind of like a like a room where there was like you know toys you know when we could all play like as kids and stuff it wasn't a big deal to me at the time you know I was like a little apprehensive like with my dad just kind of like leaving me there with people but they like say a lot to reassure you you know it it feels like you know like I and as a military kid at that point you know I was so used to just you know going to daycares or different stuff like that. So um so essentially you know and and the thing is when you're dealing with these memories they're gonna be dealing with like a fragmentary nature to things to a degree. So there's gonna be a little bit of skipping around you know where I don't necessarily know how I got from one place to another. And I think also a lot of that is intentional when you'll find with like what this particular memory was like. So essentially for me it was you know it was playing with like with like three or four other kids um in like a little room and everything and it started to get late and then essentially I don't remember anything other than um anything after that in that location. But then it's essentially waking up in what would be like a like a a black wire like dog kennel in um I and this is where it's hard to say too is like that I I have a lot of memories in locations like this which you know would be like I could say you know look very similar to like maybe like some like underground bunkers or like bases or storage units or something like that. But it's hard to say because you could also be dealing with a spot that's above ground that has is the same kind of jail like quality to it, you know. So it's you know with me with most of my programming you know more intense programming memories, you know, they're all in locations that are you know very similar to like like underground or or above ground like I said I don't know storage facilities you know they're all concrete you know concrete walls ceiling um you know lots of like you know doors and sometimes like hallways that are big enough for like a little like um at v type you know thing to like drive down basically um so it was essentially waking up um in uh like a black wire kennel in a a little bit larger room um that that was that looked like this it was really dimly lit you know it just had a couple hanging lamps it was um really dirty it smelled like of like of like urine and you know and like feces and stuff like that like um it was you know the whole experience for this one like from start to finish was like created to just kind of like assault you on like every level I say I kind of say you know like like your senses essentially you know so um so it's like you know the place was incredibly dirty you know Including the cage that like that I was in, you know, like look nothing, nothing was clean. You know, it was, you know, like uh, you know, waking up being very groggy, having um seeing like there was like there was like six other cages in addition to um my own that also had kids. And some of them were the kids that I had recognized from the um from the uh upstairs, basically from the um, whatchamacallit, from the waiting room. But, you know, and it was just, you know, being, you know, we're talking about like but like four-year-olds here, you know, is like so it's like kind of conversing, you know, like kind of not, you know, a couple of them just crying, you know, and wanting their mom, you know, and then, you know, essentially having uh, you know, two men come in that uh, you know, were screaming at us, telling us that that we were um we'd been sold, you know, um, that we weren't gonna see our parents again, that like we should get used to like being here, you know, and that, you know, if we like obeyed, they might consider, you know, they might consider like essentially letting us go. And um they like, you know, it's it you try and do like a little bit of like pleading, but you're pretty much told to like to, you know, to shut up, you know, and everyone's like gonna do that. We're talking about small children here, you know. Everyone was scared shitless. Um, and you know, they they essentially just like just like uh like pissed on us, you know, and then and then left. So it was just being left there like again, like not knowing when they were gonna come back. But then they came back and then they essentially like pulled a girl on the end out of the cage, essentially. And they said they had decided that they didn't eat her and that, you know, um, that they just wanted us all to know that we were either, you know, we were either useful or we were meat. That was a lot of times a term that was used like with like me, like when it came to like uh slaves that were like considered, you know, someone to be sacrificed or whatever is they just called him meat, which is fucking horrible. Um but essentially, you know, they essentially proceed to like to gang raper, you know, to for the two men to to essentially like rape her. And then um they ended up calling in another guy who had uh two dogs. And um, and you can pull up the first um image now, uh basically, but it was um it was the guy with like with two dogs, they were German shepherds, and essentially he just had um uh like like essentially tear apart the girl. And that's why I know like this stuff is like incredibly graphic and really fucked up, you know. But it's kind of like you were saying, it's like you hear child trafficking or you hear shit like this, like I'm talking about, you know, and it's really hard to like visualize, you know, how you know, like really how fucked up this is, you know, not just for like, you know, the girl that went through it, obviously, you know, but also for like the kids that experienced it. And I feel like, you know, and this is why this these memories are particularly hard for me, is like, you know, they very intentionally made sure to like to kill people in like essentially the most violent, you know, fucked up ways possible, you know. And that's like for me is like the thing that it's like for these people, it's no different than like mopping their floors, you know, or like, you know, like going to the grocery store or something like that. Like the amount of the amount of of guilt they feel when they allow, you know, some dogs to like rip up a screaming little girl in front of screaming little kids, you know, is you know, is completely inhuman. And that's that's the reason that like that I really do, you know, this is really hard, but is also really like, you know, is really healing for me too, because like I said, this is the thing that I have the hardest time with, is just knowing that she went through this and that no one ever knew, you know, what she went through ever essentially, other than her abusers who don't give a fuck, you know. And that to me is like is something I really cannot live with, you know, is like it's just fucked up, you know. And that's why, you know, and you can uh feel free to take it off the uh screen share now.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:25

Um I mean that's really one or just take it off.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:29

Um you want to just pull it down and we'll just pull, yeah. We don't need to leave them on, um, but uh we can just, you know, show people as the things come up. Um but uh yeah, so that's what I was saying. Like, and that's the thing too, is to realize that it's like, you know, the context of this is that, you know, they were using her death, you know. It was just like it was just like uh like an equation, you know, where they were using her death just like it was almost like, you know, uh this then that, you know, like these are the batch of kids we have to traumatize, and this is the thing we're gonna do, you know. It's like who knows? Is this a daily thing? Is this a weekly thing, you know, is this a monthly thing? Who who the fuck knows? You know what I mean? Like, and that to me is like where it's like that's that I keep saying awareness, but this is why, you know, is because it's like we're talking about very real, very fucked up things, and it's not an occasional thing, you know, like especially with what I saw, you know, it's like it's something that happens, you know, consistently and it needs to not. Um so essentially for for for all of us, you know, it was, you know, being left then, you know, with her, you know, they called her, called him off of her, like before she had passed completely. And I think that was really intentional because they like, you know, they just left us there with her, you know, like until she until she had died and everything. And, you know, it was essentially, you know, being told, you know, to shut up because there were still kids, obviously, that were freaking out and everything. And then, you know, like everyone does because you're afraid, you know, and essentially, like, they came in and pulled, um, essentially asked us, they told us if we would, if we would eat some of her that we could go, basically. And none of us, like, all of us were just like couldn't even like, you know, I I can't speak for the other kids, you know. But me, it's like I felt like you couldn't even like understand the question, you know what I mean? The question, you know. So it was just like like there was no volunteers, you know, except for one kid on the end, essentially, who like they and I think too, like looking back on it, it's like they this could even be like a plant, you know, because they're trying to like that was my experience. A lot of times they would have kids that had gone through abuse that they would mix in with kids that hadn't to kind of role model, you know, the the behavior that they're looking for, you know. So, so this kid, you know, was said he would do it, you know, like went over and like, you know, and like uh, and this is why I think he was a plant, you know, it's like it wasn't him and it was like he was a little animal or something like that, you know, like and then they, you know, so then they they like you know, called him a good boy and stuff, you know, and he left the room essentially with them, you know, and it was being, you know, left there with with her. And then that's for me is like where where my recollection cuts out again and then comes back into essentially like where I stayed most of the rest of the experience. You know, this whole experience I think was maybe around two or three days, but I it's really hard to say when it's this kind of stuff, like it's like it feels like an eternity, you know. So it's it is just really hard to say. Um, but essentially it was going from the large room to essentially, you know, like a cell, a small room that was you know, pretty identical, you know, single hanging lamp. It was all concrete, it was very dirty. There were like, you know, like roaches and shit like running around and everything. Um and uh um you can go ahead and pull up the uh the next image, you know. So, and then essentially this one, like this was probably like the like, I mean the all the parts are like rough, you know, but this is probably probably like the roughest part of the memory for me, just because um it really was just essentially being I I had been placed in a room in this, you know, this cell um with another cage that was identical to my own that was essentially essentially had like uh a little uh rotting quartz in it, you know, it was a little a little dead kid. Um, and they looked really emaciated, you know, like they had um sorry, like they had starved to death, basically. Um and um, you know, it was it was a little it was a little African-American child. Um, and uh, and it was just, you know, the smell of like rotting flesh in the room was overwhelming. And it was just dealing with like, you know, I've always been a very empathetic person, you know. So it's you're you're dealing with all like the fear, you know, of yourself being in that position, you know, of being essentially like left in this cage in a room to die, you know. And like that's like that's just kind of what's constantly going on in your head is like that fear. But then also you're gonna have a lot of like, you're gonna have a lot of empathy, you know, because it was just feeling sad knowing that that had happened, you know, to that kid, you know, that for me was really, was really difficult, you know, that it was just, you know, to be able to, you know, for hours on end, you know, to just contemplate, you know, how sad I was for for that kid, how sad I was for myself and not understanding why I was in that position, you know. Um, that it was just, you know, it was just really horrible. And essentially it would be um, it would be me. Uh, you can go ahead and take it down now. Um, like uh it would just be me. Essentially, I would go back to that cell like every time, but essentially in between times, it would be like being pulled out to essentially be like raped in different ways. You know, it's like each time there was like a different kind of like theme to it. It would be being taken to like another room that was really similar, but a little bit bigger, that had like a metal table on it, and like it would be, you know, tide-spread eagle essentially, and having like, you know, initially it was being raped by a machine. So you couldn't you had the sensation of being raped, but you couldn't see anything. So it was being told that it was like demons, essentially, you know, and that, you know, like next time it was gonna be worse and stuff. So then you go, you know, back to the cage after after that shit, you know, and it's like so it's the dealing with like the um pain of that kind of stuff, you know, in addition because and I also hadn't had like, you know, the rape memory with my dad had not happened yet. So it's like, so this was also my first experience with actually being fully vaginally raped as well, you know, was was um, you know, it'd always been like you know, fingers before, you know, so something like more drastic. This was like the first time that had been that had been the case, you know. Um, you know, and then you go back to that room essentially, you know, and then you're like they pull you out later, and then you're back in, you know, the rape room, I guess I'll call it, you know, which is essentially a spot, you know, and this time it's someone dressed as uh as Lucifer, you know, basically a devil, you know, big horns and shit like that, you know, and they're and they're the ones that that's like raping you essentially, and then it's back into the cell, essentially. And then there was like a third time essentially that I got pulled out. And this time was like, you know, the biggest like mindfuck is that, you know, you are you've had the other two times, you're really freaked out, you know, and who walks in but is Jesus, basically. And so you think like, you know, obviously someone that looks like Jesus, like like I I love Jesus. I'm like, I know this is not, you know, this is like the the shittiest fucking interpretation, you know, like facade of like this crap ever, you know. So it's essentially, you know, like someone who comes in is Jesus, it initially seems like they're there to like rescue you, essentially, you know, and be listening. And so you start pouring your heart out to him about like all the shit that you've been going through, you know, and essentially he just responds by calling you a liar and telling you you should be ashamed for being a bad girl and stuff, and then um proceed to essentially like like like rate me with like a crucifix, like basically. And that's like a memory that I would have to deal with like a lot throughout my life when I was dealing with like whenever I was disclosing and stuff. A lot of times I would have to deal with like a body memory of essentially being sexually assaulted, you know, and that's what you know it would, it would usually, it would come back to is essentially this incident, you know, where it's like, you know, you start talking, you know, and that part of you is still in that place and is still scared shitless and is like, is like, no, like I have to do anything I can to like, you know, deter her from talking about this stuff because it's you know, it's like gonna make us bad, it's gonna make us a liar, all those things that they tell you, you know, essentially, like that it's that's you that's the bad one, you know, not the not that you're oh like a victim, you know, in the situation. It's always that you're complicit, it's your fault that you're going through this or you want to be going through this. It's always that mind game, you know. So it was essentially being brought back, you know, to to the cell again. Um, and then there was a last time like where we got brought into like the big room and there was multiple kids there again, essentially. And for that one, um uh they I mean this was just kind of like another trauma to like seal the deal, essentially. And you can pull up the the next one. Um and that was just basically that they pulled, you know, it was always the illusion that it was that we were all on the same footing, but I really think that, you know, that they had some kids planted in these cages to create different illusions, you know, because like I said from early on on the last uh whatchamacallit, the last interview, you know, they always made it really clear that they were throwaway slaves, and then there were, you know, there were ones that they were willing to invest some time and money and everything and effort into, basically. Um, and that you always wanted to be that second group because the first group is essentially not going to, you know, is not you're not gonna enjoy your life very much. Um, so uh so for this one, they like they essentially told us, you know, that this kid had kind of had kind of failed, hadn't had proved that he wasn't going to be useful and stuff, and that they didn't need him anymore. So they end up pulling him out essentially, and like um one of them like lit like the corner of his shirt on fire, basically. And then like a couple of them had like things of lighter fluid. Um, and they just, you know, and you know, once he started to freak out when he knows he was on fire, they just doused him in in lighter fluid, you know, and you know, obviously he went up in flames and he, you know, running around and screaming and stuff, and they told him to shut up and just kind of like they just kind of like kicked him, like essentially, and he ended up like like falling over onto the ground and just kind of like I mean, just kind of curling up and dying, you know. And it was just like, you know, it's like at that point there wasn't any scream or anything from any of us, you know, because at that point we knew like that, like there was the expectation, you know, was that we were gonna be quiet, that we were gonna behave, you know, like all that different shit, you know. But, you know, on the inside, like I mean, it was, you know, it's I've always had this huge phobia of like of like fire, you know, for sure. Like, but it's like, you know, on a certain level it's normal, you know. But on another level, you know, and you can go ahead and pull that off, you know, um, when you're when you're done with it. Um, but uh yeah, so I mean, so it was kind of the thing to really like seal the deal that it's like that these people, you know, really have control like over your life a hundred percent, you know, that they decide whether you live or die. And if you die, how you die, you know, because that's that's what you know it really showed you you is like, in my opinion, you know, like I mean, any way to go is gonna be rough, you know, but really it's like it's like the three ways that they showed, you know, just like being forgotten in a room and starving to death, or you know, the burning or the dog, you know, it's it's some of the worst, it's some of the most like, you know, like painful, violent things that you could go with, you know, and it, and it really like, you know, it really does like, you know, just seal the deal with you, you know, that like that you're you know, and when you're so young that it's like, you know, that there are two versions of reality, you know, there's the version of reality that you grew up with, you know, and then there's like this, there's this fucking hell essentially that exists, you know, too. And it feels like you can, you know, at any moment, like, you know, get plopped right back there, you know. And so essentially it was having the whole the whole incident, and then it cuts out again and then flashes back to being in the hospital bed, you know, for you know, like a first day, essentially being really groggy and tied down, and then just being up and like walking around and being some of the other kids, the other kids, you know, that had been in the cages too. But it's like, but now it's like back to the pediatrician ward where it's like everyone is super, like all the nurses and everyone super sweet and very, you know, it's the love bombing kind of stuff, you know, where it's like your reality just went from being like, I'm gonna like, you know, die in this hellhole to now you're in like a place that's like immaculately clean and like all the people are very nice and very attentive to your needs. And I mean, a lot of it too is I'm sure just because they're just really trying to like watch and see if they can elicit any like, you know, if they're trying to see the level of dissociation, I'm sure, you know, from all that kind of stuff. Cause it's like, you know, they want to know, you know, that you're that you're gonna leave there and essentially not, you know, not talk about what just happened and everything, but and that you know that you are the uh level of dissociative that they're interested in, you know. If like if you're gonna come out and start talking about that shit right away, then that you know that's not someone they're gonna program, you know, because the only people they program are people that can keep secrets, you know. So um that's and involuntarily keep secrets, you know, by creating walls in their head, you know. So um, yeah, so so basically, you know, it was, you know, being there and then having my dad, you know, come and pick me up, you know, and it feels you know, it did feel like a very surreal experience. You wonder, like, you know, sometimes you would have little memories of like what had happened, and it was like, was it a dream? Like maybe I was sick or something, you know, or like, you know, is there it's you, you know, as an adult, you wouldn't know how to wrap your head around it, but especially as like a kid, you know, having no context, you know, for stuff. So it, you know, it was my dad picking me up, you know, and feeling like grateful to see him, you know, too, because it's like, you know, they seem nice, but I still had weird feelings there, you know, for obvious reasons. So like I went back home with my dad, but my mom was still gonna be gone for like a long period of time. So, and this is one thing that Fritz Springmeyer mentions in his book that a lot of times the core trauma, you know, it like they really need the caregiver to kind of like seal the deal with stuff, you know. So essentially, like it was just kind of another situation where I felt like I had been kind of rescued, you know, I was going to go someplace familiar where I understood stuff, you know, even if it was with my dad who was like just had just been starting to like binge drink and do all that stuff since my mom had left. Um, but you know, what ended up happening is, you know, like we went home, my dad continued on the binge drinking and stuff, and within the within like I not that first night, but the next night, like he essentially uh ended up raping me for like for the first time vagually, like too. So it's like it really is like it feels like at that point, like there's no safe place as a kid, you know, it makes it very, like, it very easy to see that like you know, as fucked up as sexual abuse is, it's like the least fucked up of all the like the least painful at least of all the other abuse. So it makes it very easy to train like a sex kitten or something at that point, you know, to be like, hey, like, you know, like this is like being a sex object is like the safest form of, you know what I mean? It's the best way to be, you know, or something. Like, and that's how you can get like the the crazy parts, you know, that they that they go off of, you know. So that's when it comes to like this memory, that's where like each of the events that I had talked about in um or at least the early ones I had talked about in the initial um interview, you know, it's like they a lot of times would start off like creating a part, you know, or triggering a part with the same trauma that was around like the uh initial uh that initial event that you know was just like you know, a very long trauma event, essentially. So when they were trying to create the dog altar, um the uh the um whatchamacallit, like the sorry, the wolf altar, um, they made sure to like start that off with essentially showing like a kitten being. ripped apart by a Rottweiler. And it's like, and that kind of like re triggers like the same, you know, kind of trauma of like that initial event, you know, and essentially kind of just kind of gets you gets you ready for more programming for that that part, you know, to be out and conscious for them to essentially then continue to like um you know instruct or train or or do different things with, you know. So and so with that one, you know, it really was about then them getting me to kill a kitten. So that like I had mentioned. So that that was that was you know the stare like the the steps that they take, you know, to essentially um you know take a kid that would not be violent even a little bit, you know, but it's like when you have all this stuff of this initial memory like in the in your subconscious in the back of your mind on a certain level like the resistance from the parts of you that don't want to do that is only going to go so far because there's a lived experience of other parts of this insane stuff, you know, that really cannot you can't talk out of you know like the kitten's life over yours. You know, at that point like that part is you know is a hundred percent survival, you know, so and they're like they don't see things, you know, it's easy to start creating a psychopathic or wolf like altar, you know, out of something like a a part of you that's already decided that there's you know there's no hope in the world and no use being a little girl or anything like that, you know, so um so yeah and that's that's the thing too with that like, you know, is that really like if you know you're going to be doing some kennel training with me later is like is you have all these associations in my head too where with with the wolf altar with the dog altar the dog altar was just more of a sex altar. It was just for bestiality type films that were always in this kennel that was kind of like outside of like San Antonio, Texas area. But uh when it came to like the those altars, you know, like a huge part of their programming was that like other dogs, you know, you see they you want to create the kennel if you're if you're kennel training, I've never actually really done it with dogs I think probably because it would be too triggering for me. But I like you know it's like if you're kennel training a dog, you know, like that basically you know like you want to them to associate their kennel as a safe place as a like their den, their home, you know, like it's like their little room or something. And that's very much what they do too with like the dog and the wolf training and stuff like that is that they want you to like associate you know they want you to associate the person who's your master as like the person who like you rely on for your food and all your affection you know and then you have your kennel you know as the place where you don't experience any abuse and you're excited to go back to you know and for for me like it's like it it would be easy to see like how that you know could be implanted in that kid especially when you were comparing the the two cages to each other you know because there is one cage that's in just like the hospital an immaculately clean place it's stainless steel it's like all shiny there's no bad smells you know there's a nice blanket in there like there's all this stuff you know and then subconsciously you're also remembering that there the cage could be a very different kind of cage you know one that's like covered in fucking shit and roaches and stuff you know and like and in in a very horrible setting you know with a lot of unknowns you know when you have that you know and then you create this like dog or like wolf altar you know that then did like the violent stuff you know for them it's very like you know it's like well you know this this is like heaven you know because for them they don't they don't have the context of having like a normal kid life you know like they're they're always called out when they're traumatized you know so for them it's like well this is awesome I love just pleasing my master and doing this stuff because this is the thing that makes me feel like the world is predictable and safe and everything. And then you know you take a kid like that and then you you just multiple years you keep pulling out that same part you keep traumatizing them you know and that's you know that's how you end up getting adults that are super soldiers and sleeper people, you know, and people that you know or end up being you know survivors that are self-destructing in you know like sex work and stuff like that. You know, it's you know it's a lot of it is just it's almost like the altars that we created for ourselves like run run rampant and just because we don't understand like what the dynamic that we're kind of perpetuating within ourselves, you know. So um I uh I'm gonna follow up you know the end of finalize this event, you know, with this last image essentially which is um this is how I kind of recommend survivors do journaling um and I myself do journaling is that I always try and make sure to like not just journal like what happened but also what I wish would have happened. Essentially that's like a lot of what we do in EMDDR or different things that it's like you know as part of processing the memory you know a lot of times I'll be dealing with like anger you know working with like my punching bag and a baseball bat or something or some target or something and just like visualizing you know like in in the violent memories like like having gone back in and like taken out the abusers and that m and rescued the kids as opposed to like having been forced to offend on another kid or something, you know? And it's it's all visualization but it's a very healing and empowering you know for us to really to really recognize that like that the event is over and like now we can use some some visualization to essentially like create um to create some some healing and peace. And for me that is always going to be based on spirituality. Spirituality is always number one for the basis of everything. So for this uh particular like photo it was just like a um oh yeah yeah yeah you can you can show it briefly you know it's uh it was just like the hunt oh no it was the last one it should have been the last one after um okay sorry no no it's totally fine I think there was only three on that one oh maybe I forgot the last one it's not a big deal it's it's basically like a Mother Earth um type woman that's like just kind of like cradling like a little child basically with like the flowers around and stuff. So essentially like that's usually what I do to um to kind of like create some closure with the journaling and everything is I can't literally go back and save those kids. I can't literally go back and save myself but if I can you know create some like mental peace you know especially for that part of like just giving them like some understanding of what they went through and some like just like being like you know what like what would have been the ideal outcome in this situation and like you know and just kind of reiterating that like that we're adult like in an adult body now it's not we're not in the same position that we were as children you know and and that for me is like is is the biggest part you know even for this kind of stuff I constantly come back to and people say you know that freaks you out of course and people say you know like you're so brave it's so risky and all this shit you know like yes it is like I mean what the my whole life like the shit I went through was like really fucking risky but at this point it feels like more risky to be quiet about stuff because I'm healing anyway than than to than to not you know because you know if at this point you know if some extreme level of harassment comes like I'm gonna have a lot of people that are aware of why you know um and that that did serve me well the first time I came out about the incest you know just with my dad and uncle you know was because they you know they did I wouldn't be surprised if the two comments you or a few comments that you deleted were from my family because that's the thing. That's what I've come that's what I've that's why I've come to realize is that you know that the the pool of people that are not okay with me sharing this information or are interested in calling me crazy or saying I need attention or you know all the things or my dad tells people that um his his reasoning for all this is that he tells people that I was gang raped in college and that that just that just addled my brain I guess. So now I decide to like accuse my dad and and uncle and then the whole other network of people essentially of like molesting me my whole childhood. I'm like yeah that makes sense you know but I thought it was really interesting that he said gang raped in college because I was like wow it's interesting that you know that I've been gang raped you know like you know and but that's the thing they don't know as abusers you know how much you're remembering they just are shitting themselves because you're remembering you know so they're gonna do whatever they can to cover their tracks you know so I I heard it all you know that I was like that you know that I was crazy and there's all the all the stuff you know but what I realized was that you know the bulk of of everyone else you know especially people that really I saw a lot and their opinions mattered to me more in my life like we're all incredibly supportive and a lot of people shared their own stories you know of of experiencing similar things and that was just so healing you know so so it really like I mean it it really is like like I I anticipate getting some stuff you know like there's gonna be some people that are and plenty of people that are not happy that I'm that I'm speaking out you know but that doesn't mean that I I shouldn't do it because I do have hope that you know at some point you know we're gonna have enough enough awareness to actually like you know um actually do something about everything so um I was gonna you know grab some water um do you have any like questions or anything about uh what I just kind of went over or do you want to just um get into like a few of the questions if we have time what are you feeling yeah I was gonna comment on what you were saying with the the last image that we didn't show um with creating a positive outcome I was that too because I think that guilt that you feel surviving something like that and that helplessness and that shame of like caring that's it's such a heavy fucking weight you know a child an adult anybody like thank you for sharing that I didn't thank you for that that was absolutely horrific and I'm so sorry that you went through that and I'm so sorry for all the children that are going through that and that is why it's important to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:48

But I think creating that positive outcome like you didn't have a choice to experience any of that you were forced to do it. And so that shame of how they make you feel like it's all your fault, you know, and it's your guys's fault that all that all this stuff happens being able to look at it from an empathetic point of view and saying if I were to be you know the the leader of that room with all those children in it like what would I have done with those children and something beautiful from that and say like this is what I would do. You know like the children would be playing or they'd be happy or this would be the outcome. I think that's like really powerful with like reclaiming your power back because they do put those thoughts in your mind that you chose that outcome and that you had something to do with it and it's your fault and that that's going to be you if you don't comply. You know so I love that tip because I don't know if people would automatically think of doing that even with journaling but I think that that's really powerful because it it exercises your brain to have freedom of choice and to have free will again you know and to realize that like if you were the you know if you were the leader of that room like you would have not done what the leaders of of of the room at that time whenever you're a child did. You know so I appreciate you sharing that because that's extremely positive and in an uplifting way to you know view something so incredibly horrific.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:09

Yeah yeah that's that's one thing I think that like I learned in EMBR but I learned early on that I could use in journaling too you know is that we we try and we want to focus you know especially for that for that it's like a little part of us that needs to get rescued that's still been stuck in that situation you know and really it's like the best way to to heal the and to heal the quickest is just to kind of like be very open and without judgment both to the hard shit that comes out but also sometimes like the kind of like silly comforting kid shit that comes out you know as like you know because you'll have times for sure where it's just it feels like the thing you need to ground yourself feels very childlike and and not rational you know but in my experience like you're really you're really denying part of yourself when it comes to that and that's like that's a huge part of it is like for kids is like our our imaginations were like used against us you know as a kid. So now it's like getting like you're saying giving that that part a chance to be like you know like we have the power to do any you know to imagine anything now you know and and the thing for me too that I constantly come back to is like like I I had mentioned before you know like like with the um you know retaliation type things because it's like you know even with like that part it was always like the hardest to convince that to share stuff you know just even with like my partner my therapist anything you know because it does feel like so dangerous and everything. But um but when it comes down to it you know like that that little part like really it it can only like be kind of brought into the present essentially if like we um we like listen to all the needs I guess basically like without any any judgment or any restriction or anything like that. And and um sorry I got off track you know but sorry when it came to using your imagination you know for um for your stuff like it's also about like changing the clothing of the part and everything. So in my experience you know like the part will always be dressed in like what like that either the role that part felt like they had to have whether it was a non-human thing or something or it'll just be like a little kid version of yourself that's still wearing the same clothes and everything. So a huge part of it for me is just you know just even just asking that part of myself like internally and sometimes painting and journaling about it like what would you like to wear you know and it's like sometimes it's princess dresses and so depending on part, you know, it's like and but in my experience like that's that's really the thing that that creates some healing you know is is that you like it's almost like parts of yourself you were never able to like express fully. And the more you can do that, the more you're gonna feel empowered the more you're gonna realize that like most of what the abusers told you were like complete lies, you know, and that you know you are like expressing yourself isn't going to just get you ridiculed. It isn't going to get you you know a slap in the face or something like that. It's gonna get you you know a lot of support and understanding and everything. But yeah, sorry I kind of lost my train of thought no that was great.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:27

You didn't even you know that was a beautiful response. I just wanted you to know that you know it's learning I think positive outcomes and just having having different tools in somebody's toolbox can be so healing. And I love the artistic side of it because I haven't talked about that you know that side of it aside from just maybe handwriting which is still really powerful but I love the the artistic side and the creative the creativity that you bring to healing I think some people will relate to and maybe they haven't heard that as much. So I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:56

Wow thank you um I sorry I just remembered like what the track I was going on because this is I I think helpful for some people so like we said imagine like positive outcome for sure but sometimes also the other thing for me is to essentially deal with my anxiety by gaming out the worst case scenario especially for those for the kid parts because a lot of times like what they think is the worst case scenario is like not not real essentially you know like or can't exist or something like that. You know so um so for example you know for this part who I mentioned had you know was really scared about like me sharing you know with anyone or getting in like way of therapy or creating a lot of body pain or different stuff like I you know I at a certain point had to be like you know like the worst fear for that part is is going back to that place literally you know and it was kind of like really like you know getting like like it's like an adult talking to a child you know to be like you know like we're we have an adult body now I have like a completely different understanding of of spirituality of the fact that all things are temporary you know and like and I can't say that I'm not gonna go in some horribly you know violent way you know what I mean there's people get in car accidents every day you know I just lost a friend a couple weeks ago in a car accident suddenly you know so the thing is we we don't know you know death is part of life and we know we're all gonna go somehow and that's kind of like where I come to it with that part is like even if like worst case scenario I got picked up tomorrow and thrown back into that spot and it was like the worst case thing, you know, we were in that cage and gonna be fucking left in a room for like till we died, you know, or something like that. Like I don't know how to describe the level to which that doesn't have the same level of fear for me anymore because the thing is I have been a practicing Buddhist for many years prior to like coming back to Jesus, you know, recently in like the past like year and stuff. But I still I still practice a lot of meditation. I still practice a lot of stuff in my mind and I know from Buddhism that you know we're gonna go through a lot of fucked up things in life that we don't have any control over, you know? And even something that fucked up is temporary, you know, and there's not going to be the same level of like fear essentially at least for myself you know that there that there was before because I'm gonna understand that that's the case too. I'm an adult now, you know like so it's kind of like really showing that that kid that like that like okay worst case scenario like the worst thing in the world happens like we're still going to be able to handle it you know because ultimately we're not we're not in the same place that we were before you know and and that's the thing that I constantly come back to with people is like a lot of times that's what holds them back from journaling or doing different stuff is they feel like it's gonna once they get it on the if they're getting out of here and out here, you know, even if it's just putting it on words on a page that somehow it's gonna make it more real. It's gonna bring you right back there. It's gonna make you feel the thing is you're never gonna feel as helpless as you did then. And that's the thing like that's why I encourage people to do the journaling because you'll think what's gonna happen is you're gonna put the shit on page and it's gonna make it more real and more overwhelming but it's always the opposite that happens. It's like for some reason just bringing that into your reality it just takes all of the intensity down. It connects the right and left side of your brain the emotional and like the physical brings you into the present and allows that part to be like oh like I put this on page and nothing happened. Like nothing happened like like it's like the world didn't cave in on me. I didn't like explode of like shame or grief or you know like anger or something like that. You know if anything it just keeps you know it just like oh I feel a little bit better you know like and so but it's still something I go through you know is that is that resistance you know for uh for journaling and stuff but it is like you know like you know this is pretty much like my journaling tips part you know that that I had wanted to get to you know which is just that you know don't hold back when it comes to the bad shit the good shit like you really if you are a survivor that's like you know and even if not to be honest like I feel because I feel like people could benefit from this kind of work even if they're just dealing with like you know childhood bullying or different types of trauma like that that aren't necessarily as like like okay like I need to get completely in touch with a completely dissociated part of myself you know that's like freaking out and triggered and everything it really it really goes a long way to us like exploring you know our minds and our motivations and our behaviors and everything. And a lot of times like the things that we do that are fucked up in our life like just comes from like a lack of like understanding I think an awareness of like why we're behaving a certain way you know so and it's a lot of times it's stupid shit from our from our childhood and when you can realize that it's like damn like I don't why am I still living this way?

SPEAKER_00 1:48:50

Right, right right right that's so helpful. I love that you shared that and I know that's going to be helpful. And I mean stuff like that can be helpful even if you haven't gone through the types of traumas that you have you know even if it's just and I don't want to say just all trauma is relative to the person. So I'm not trying to discount trauma but what I'm saying is you don't have to go through satanic ritual abuse to find value in what, you know, the advice that Carrie's given. I think that all of this, you know, all of us have trauma on some level and figuring out how to navigate that and to get it out of our body and how to express it. There's so many different ways that we can do that. You know, and I think like anybody can benefit from picking up a pen or some markers or some paint and some paper or canvas and just getting whatever it is that's stuck in us out, you know, so I I love that you offer that and that there's so many different ways that we can use that creatively to our advantage in our healing journeys.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:41

Yeah thank you so much. I like I'm I I hope it makes sense to people I feel like sometimes that I just I I maybe have too many metaphors or I'm just like all over the place. So if it's like and it all comes from just like me, you know, trying to break it down for myself or a lot of times trying to break it down for other parts because the thing is is like you'll like all to try and get like all my parts on board for journaling or all of them on board for therapy or different stuff like that like is you know sometimes is sometimes a challenge you know because they're they're like until you have a level of integration to where like everyone knows they're on the same team like they are now for me like like they're you know leading up to that point you know there was still you know it's like herding cats you know and so you have to like in my experience and my my a lot of my benefit in therapy and different stuff is I had to learn how to explain things to my kid parts, you know, that were scared. I had to learn how to explain things to my persecutor parts, you know, who are really just bullies because they were all so scared you know but really it's like so like journaling for example like that's the usually the main parts people want to avoid talking to is because they sound like they're abusers or they sound like you know a demon or all kinds of things you know that they were essentially created to sound like you know to help you know help maintain the system order essentially in favor of the abusers. So um really like like you have to like in my experience that's like where the most benefit comes from in journaling too it's the most resistance but it's also the most benefit because most of the time you just have to in my my experience I just recommend asking questions you know like like oh like if they're insulting you or they're saying things have to be a certain way that isn't healthy to just be like why? Like why is that the case? Why is that what you think you know and what a lot of times what you'll end up finding you know is persecutor parts are essentially bullying the system you know creating a lot of self-destructive habits or something because it's like we talked about my early memory it's it's going to be a very traumatized part of you that feels like oh like I I need you to be a certain way essentially to protect the body you know to protect the core of yourself that we're trying to keep dissociated you know from all this crazy shit like you have to like like subconsciously we know what the abusers want even if the front person in daily life doesn't so there's always going to be this subconscious control in the background where they're trying to try to do things. But as adults it ends up coming out in very self-destructive ways and addiction and you know just really bad self-talk all kinds of stuff and it really does take like like you know in my experience that's also the main thing to like move therapy forward is like where you feel like you have resistance you have to take time to create understanding and like coming onto like an even footing just like you would with like any relationship you know if you guys are both yelling at each other and coming from two different places then it's like you're never going to get anywhere. So there has to be you know and and the thing is as a front person we're the adult we're the ones that have spent the most time you know in present life. So it's always our responsibility to like not feed into like the crazy bullying or like the all the crazy stuff you know and to try our hardest to like investigate it and create some understanding. Cause in my experience those parts are also parts that tend to have the most strength and create you know the most like almost stability within the system once they are healed, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:08

Yes, 100% that makes such sense and again I love your metaphors because it just brings so much clarity to some things that are very unfamiliar to you know what we learn. Obviously we're not taught this but also what we personally experience a lot of us you know we don't go through that. So it's it's it can be very hard for people who haven't to just even comprehend what that's like and you do such a great job breaking it down. And I thought while we're on this topic I know some people had questions about healing that sent so if you don't mind I'd love to piggyback off of that I thought a really great question was um did you have any booby traps or hardest obstacles biggest obstacles I should say in your programming and like how do you overcome that if if faced with an obstacle it's always going to be about internal investigation.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:58

And yes like I have always experienced a lot of booby traps you know like they're like a core like this core memory created a very strong urge for suicide basically because you know you don't have any context for there being any way out of that situation other than to die. And you don't really know as a four-year-old what that means you know really like much other than what you're witnessing and different stuff. But it's just like it's it's like this abstract end to things. So essentially you know they build a lot of like for me like a lot of like suicide programming off of that kind of stuff where essentially like it's like you'll like it will call up that memory you know um but a lot of times like with this like the booby traps in my experience you know they're they're almost like they're almost like disembodied like um like physical symptoms and stuff like you'll typically feel really strong physical symptoms but the parts because they're so traumatized are usually like very not interested in interacting and are very like resistant to healing and very afraid because they're very like core type type memories you know so so yeah so I would say like like booby traps essentially like not to give them too much like uh power essentially like sometimes when we think about programming or booby traps or stuff it it almost creates this idea that there's like something foreign that was like put into us that we have no control over. And you know there is a lot of manipulation to create what's going on in our heads you know and to convince parts of ourselves that they need to do what the abusers want. But ultimately it's it's all just yourself. It's all just manipulation of a kid that's gotten you to believe something, you know so sometimes when we think about like booby traps like as survivors like think ask yourself if you're thinking of it as like a literal thing because if you're thinking of it as like oh I'm about to like to step into something like scary or like like so um have things like uh that would make it feel like um there was like an earthquake in the system like and that there was like it's like everything was like and my whole world was about to like shake apart. Like there a lot of times there's like big overwhelming sensations. You know that one was like created by being um like raped while being blindfolded and then uh you also had like ear covers and stuff. So essentially you had like all your sensation was just like 100% just being like violent raped but you didn't have like a lot of other sensations to go with it. And then they essentially kind of like instruct that part, you know, that they're like that they're like an earthquake and that you know anything anytime you know certain shit you know gets brought up you know that this is like the essentially and for that one it was like if there was fuckery isn't either discovery of like the physical structure of like the system that they created you know that they modeled my parts on um if if there was an attempt of me to to see it or to modify it basically um because that came a lot later on in healing uh that that there would be like this sensation that you know that you know it I was shaking the foundations of my whole universe you know and that I could not go any further because if I did you know it and it so a lot of it's really overwhelming sensations and stuff. So that's the main thing to just come back to is that like when we're talking about booby traps or stuff we're not talking about like literal physical things that are going to go off inside you and create a chain of events that you will have no control over. That's not the case even a little bit. It's always going to be a like little traumatized part of yourself that feels like they have to be putting you through whatever the booby trap is, you know, to essentially punish you for stepping into an area in your healing or in your life that you're not supposed to you know so so I had mentioned the first time the cutting that was a good example you know where like you know he my uh my main handler had essentially can talked me convinced apart you know that we needed to uh cut ourselves uh anytime that we had been sexual with anyone that was not cult related or not sanctioned by our handler essentially so like when I was out partying in college I mean very promiscuous like the next morning I would end up or sometimes there were the morning after I had been with him and he just wanted he essentially just wanted to like reinforce some other programming you know it would, you know, the next morning there would just be the insatiable urge for me to cut myself you know and then I would do it and then I once I was done I felt fine you know which is most people's experience with cutting in general is that you just you know you do it when you know you have emotional overwhelm and stuff. But for my therapist they were like I don't understand why it's starting now it's always like a like a childhood thing like like or it's a teenage thing but that's what people don't understand is like until until my college days it's like I was I was the perfect kid. I was like totally unlocked you know straight A student no negative emotions never got grounded no like no nothing like I like to everyone I was the perfect child you know like and but it's because you're fucking afraid you know but like I didn't get to be like who I wanted to be I had to be to be who I had to be you know and that's that's was my experience.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:16

Well that's even enlightening in itself because I think that's the other thing you know we have such a skewed way of considering what abuse could look like not just considering what an abuser looks like but what somebody who is being abused looks like people wouldn't expect that maybe the straight A valivictorian you know perfect you know uh star of the football team child that's like standing in front of them you know on graduation night saying a speech could have everything that you did. But I find more and more of the cases that's that's exactly the person, you know, the archetype person that is going through this a lot of the times at these high levels because again like you are very smart like higher than average IQ like higher than average athletic capabilities like that ability to perform well and just I don't know about the athletic thing.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:10

I still think that's something that like that like that it even in my hunting stuff it wasn't something that was pushed too much but it was more so there's different stuff like I had mentioned like even the weapon skills like my stuff is still pretty rudimentary because there was always this like understanding that like you're gonna uh like once you're really needed you know that they're gonna just pick you up and finish off the training that they need. So you have like updates to training and stuff like that like throughout your life you know but so yeah so that's all I was saying you know I've never been but but to be honest like so that in my experience if we wanted to piggyback this on booby traps, you know, is my is my experience of like shutdown kind of stuff. So essentially like because you know they didn't want me to be sexual like they didn't want me to be violent you know that it's like when I would start my behaviors would start veering into those directions essentially like it's like there there would be a lot of um a lot of punishment a lot of booby traps for example so I started having um exercise induced pasma during uh during my middle school time um because I like I had started sparring in my type one dough class basically so like the I was great at like katas and doing all that kind of stuff but as soon as it was like the the physical hand to hand stuff even though I had been trained in all of this stuff you know like for years like prior when it came to all the like NWO soldier wolf training type stuff like that it's like that it was known you know for my system that's like the sex not being sexual with someone I wasn't supposed to I wasn't supposed to be violent or physically capable. You know I was a total bookworm you know inside painting all day you know never felt comfortable in my body I was not supposed to feel comfortable in my body you know and feel capable you know and and that's like and that's something that I experienced is like when when I was in the position of sparring and all of a sudden adrenaline hit it was it was almost like I had experienced a lot of like um like like shutdown type booby traps where I start I would start having you know exercise induced asthma they said you know like basically where it you know to me it feels very similar to panic attacks too you know you just you just can't breathe you know like and you feel like you know like you like you have no energy and like all that stuff and and that's a lot of also what I experienced feeling I when I was dealing with those memories coming up again I dealt with that same thing over again of being like oh my God like do I have asthma and then investigating with that part and being like okay like no this is like essentially like me you know us tapping into the part of ourselves you know like learning about you know like the violent part of ourselves that had wanted to you know to share and heal and everything but it's it still comes along with you know with more awareness but still comes along with all those same shutdown kind of kind of feelings so dealing with like waves of heavy fatigue and not having any energy or like uh like I said the um I was gonna say like random body aches you know just like all your joints or the um uh sorry the first thing I mentioned yeah regardless it's like you'll like the the breathing kind of thing shortness of breath it's like you'll you'll experience you know those kinds of things but that like I was saying like I I constantly come back to like not not giving it that much power you know like not really thinking like oh my god I'm gonna stop breathing you know and just recognizing that like this is something you know it goes a long way to realize that something psychosomatic or like journal about it or something and and like because sometimes we will have more control over surviv as survivors over stuff like that than we realize like once we investigate it.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:59

Yes that was a great answer. And I mean that's it's really phenomenal like what our bodies are capable of doing unconsciously you know and not that every child that has asthma is you know programmed but like that doesn't come up in conversations at all. People don't consider it in any case and it doesn't have to just be programmed. I'm sure like something like asthma can be onset from you know other types of you know trauma too potentially you know but it's like we don't take that into the placebo effect like it's the you know it's you know that's it's pretty much like it's using your body's ability for the placebo effect but it's like weaponizing it essentially yes a hundred percent so this I don't know I to me it makes me have more empathy and it makes me ask more questions about stuff instead of just accepting that somebody's sick or you know has an illness. I mean it's so common with survivors that they have different brain body injuries that they deal with chronically throughout their life and some of it starts to dissipate when they start to heal those areas if if you know that's possible for that injury. You know, but it's like we're not taught that that chronic pain or inflammation in our body or just dysfunction or disease could be related to trauma. We're always associated that it has to be something physical that we feel on our body you know and and it's it's like that book The Body Keeps the score it really does you know like our body remembers trauma you know and I I love that you say like internal investigation because I think like if more of us did that and looked in and said like why why do I have pain here? Why does this injury always seem to reoccur or like why do I have the sore spot on my body or why do I have you know asthma attacks once in a while whatever it is I I would guarantee that a lot of things that manifest in our body over time do have some type of relation to some type of a negative emotion also.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:56

You know and I think survivors really do bring that to light and shine a light on that aspect because I mean it's it's totally erased if it was ever taught anyways in you know in medicine especially here in America yeah yeah no I think it's there's a very like you know I mean and medicine is even getting more and more uh like proving it more and more the the mind body connection you know and that's a lot of like when I mentioned satanic panic before like that's that's why like all of like all of this stuff we're talking about has been suppressed like intentionally you know like like the the dis so like the study of dissociation and trauma and its effects you know like everyone knew all of that shit since like world war two and like the Nazis like essentially like standardized like abuse and and studying it essentially you know so really you know this I yeah it it it's been known for so long by like the enemy essentially by the people that use it against us and it's frustrating because whenever it's like stuff starts coming to light in like the general public they just make it seem like it's bullshit. But in general that's why I'm like really optimistic now is because it it is true. Just like scholarly articles that you can find on the effects of trauma or stuff dissociation, all that stuff you know like like I said you know false memory syndrome foundation is like not in the DSM 5, but dissociation is, you know so it's something that you know little by little, you know, they're they're trying to put their spin on thing on people becoming aware of stuff by kind of glorifying the stranger the stranger things aspect of things you know or like uh you know making it seem like cool to be like a fucking so super soldier or something as if like you didn't go through things like I talked about like earlier in this episode, you know, which is like you know like like there's no level of like you know like cool I can use a gun or knife skills that would be worth you know going through shit like that or witnessing shit like that. You know and that's that's but that's how it's presented right now you know in popular culture is that rituals are just like a fun thing people do where you get to dress up, you know, and like and you know and and you know stranger things or other things that are all that you know trauma-based program shoulders you know are just like are just like cool you know like yeah it sucks like what she went through but how cool would it be to have those abilities you know and it's like uh yeah you listen to my episodes and then tell me that you would go through that just to feel like you could fucking like throw someone against the wall with your mind you know like 99% of the time that's not what you get you get you know you get you know skills that they give you for their ends you know like and not things that you would have chosen to want to do if like you had a choice in it you know it's not like yay I gotta go be like you know they didn't like program me to be the best mural artist in the world you know like right yeah 100% yes and somebody actually asked a question that what you just said reminded me of somebody had asked um any helpful aspects basically are there any aspects of your programming that that serve you well so I don't know so we'll say yes we'll say yes and no um in general like anyone's gonna be a better version of themselves without the programming like just like period end of story like because all the like quote unquote skills or things that you might have that like the normal person doesn't came at like a huge cost to where you can't really like use it like a normal person would you know so it's like so um so basically like I I would say you know like at this point I'm a at a place like so when I'm an AA I say I'm a grateful recovering alcoholic because I recognize that like that you know being an alcoholic was what got me into the rooms of AA and then once I did that it kind of started the process of me like liking myself and healing in general like pre dealing with like the trauma stuff you know so so there's a level of gratitude for like the struggles that we go through. And so there's there is a little bit of that is that no I would have not liked to have gone through any of this even a little bit. But I did go through it and now that I'm in this position I there is a lot of ways where dissociation is incredibly helpful to me and once you have some control over it like has created things in my life that to other people are very mind blowing that to me are like not that big of a deal you know because there's a level like on certain parts there's a level of confidence or something that like you know to try new things essentially you know or different stuff. So you know like right now if I was talking about the weapon stuff like seeing as like I might you know at some point like face some bodily harm or something like then yeah like I I am you know like fuck my abuser you know fuck Schmeagel you know and fuck all of them but you know now that I'm healing from stuff like am I going to be grateful that I know how to use a knife? Yes you know I'm gonna be incredibly grateful about that you know because like it was like the quote you you gave you know that it's like if I need to defend myself or my family I feel a lot more confident to be able to do that now. And I like that I like feeling I like feeling comfortable in my body and able to like you know handle myself in a situation versus feeling like afraid you know so so that that is that is one way you know that it's that those kind of things are beneficial or just like I said like with the confidence for example you know like the handler part of me that I ended up you know working with very early on that was a persecutor part, you know, has uh had this way of treating me, you know, when it came to all my achievements like my dad essentially so would like I felt like I wasn't um I wasn't okay with myself unless I was achieving something unless I was doing something like that was, you know, that that like you know I could look at their painting like uh whatever you know like you know that like would make me feel like okay like I have some self-worth you know but then also that's how how I learned to deal with my abusers was to go above and beyond you know that it's like you know because I learned that if I showed a certain skill if you showed any less of that skill you were going to get in trouble. So the best thing you could do was just to continually improve. And then it's like it's like you could stay ahead of the game and essentially just always be praised and never have to deal with the abuse side of things, you know? So like for example when I got started in my muraling even for myself that was a total mind flop to feel like I was like this level of confidence that I was going to be able to get on a boom lift, you know, and fucking paint a 40 foot tall water tower, you know? But like on a certain level, you know, or um even like this, you know, being able to talk on a podcast, you know, it's because I have the I have a part that's very okay, you know, with with being in uh what's the word you know the public part like I talked about is very okay with being in front of people with doing what we call the tap dance to like quote unquote like where it's just like like hey look how precocious and interesting I am you know and like you know like and just kind of like you know being just kind of like bubbly and just you know just whatever and feeling like confident to just like address you and thousands of other people you know like like if I like if it was just like the main me and I didn't have not didn't have that access to that part as well at all, you know, which I didn't when I was pregnant. So the one interview I did while I was pregnant was incredibly difficult because it's like it felt I had all the anxiety I had all that like it was just it was it was difficult. You know most of the time I can be an AA I can be like this you know and I can talk and not have a lot of fear and I and I get that from from that that confidence from that part you know and the uh um you know the other one with the boom lift like I said it's like because he treated me like my dad who's pretty much like you can do anything you know like and it was just like like yeah I fucking figure it out type of thing. So I went through the whole process with the city and other artists, you know, to give them the design and do all this stuff and then show up on the day of at the work site and I'm just like holy shit I have this giant piece of machinery this like crazy stuff that I have to like drive around and not damage because it's fucking like millions of dollars. I'm sure it's all like city water equipment and stuff to get to this like thing and then I'm gonna be 40 feet up in the air like painting painting this like mural you know and it was like you know for a lot of people like that was just you know uh or doing live painting like I've done on stage at tattoo conventions for a lot of people that's like completely mind blowing you know and for me because it's like there's a part that feels like that's their job that's what they were meant for you know like even the part that was confident was just like yeah we'll figure it out and had no issue you know just figuring it out like with the boom lift and then the part you know that was painting could switch in like once we were actually up there, you know like and but it it was it takes a lot of teamwork and everything you know between the parts. So like I mentioned the metaphor the first one when it comes to dissociation when it comes to good things good things about programming it only comes from like from your own healing and your own integration I I really think you know because you get to the point where it's like it it's like a symphony and you have all the instruments playing at different times, you know, and it's like total chaos is what your life feels like. And then as you get some system understanding and you deal with your trauma therapy and everything and you increase internal communication what you'll experience is you know all of those parts of yourself you know playing when like like instruments playing when they're supposed to and it'll create like a beautiful symphony and you'll have a part come in here you know and then another one come in here and like by all of them working together, you know, they're all completely different instruments that sounds shitty if they're playing you know randomly but if everything works together it creates something really beautiful. And that's that's always the goal for me in my life. I'm never I'm my goal is not integration and being like you know like oh there's like one person you know one personality in here because ultimately like with my understanding of DID I was never given the chance to have one person one personality. It's like the abuse started so early so it's more about about reconnecting with all those pieces that you lost and just creating you know the version of yourself that you know all of you can be happy with that was a great explanation of that thank you I love that people are so like they're asking such sophisticated questions.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:39

You know that's what I was like well people are great questions holy crap I love it.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:44

Let me see if there was anything else that I had said about healing specifically um some of it you had already covered that people had asked um and hopefully my channel too is primarily going to be focused on on that like just kind of breaking down different healing tips because it's a very overwhelming process.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:04

So I feel like having like little concrete exercises to do when it comes to journaling or stuff like that goes a long way to like kind of like you know like trying to think of what to do when you're in trauma brain is like ah you know so it helps to just be like all right do this right now and see if it helps you know yes and then hearing it from somebody that's like so level headed like you, you know, and hearing it like from a clinical perspective that's not like so emotional emotionally charged like how it probably feels is very relieving too. You know, it's like working out a math problem almost like you can be more logical about it instead of getting so stuck in what you're feeling can say okay well what are the steps that I can take what are my tools how do I navigate this you know and then to just have that realization that the more work you put into it, it does go from being this beginning orchestration of people brand new to playing an instrument, you know, and they all sound kind of quirky and don't know how to work together. But the more you practice like you said you have this beautiful symphony at the end and it's it's worth all that work that you put into it. So that's also inspiring to see like what's on the other side of of putting that work in, you know, because I'm sure it's so daunting to even think about how the hell do I how do I make all this work you know and and you're such a living testament to that. So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:20

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:22

And then I wanted to ask too this was this is a subject change not on healing but somebody this is actually a good question. You know we we've heard multiple times like where they get children for sacrifice and somebody had asked about animals um saying that not knowing where they get animals for sacrifices has casted a doubt on their own memories. So I don't know that or if you or if you could speak on it, but that would be maybe a good question to answer to since animals don't get talked about enough but they're in a lot of these scenarios.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:57

Yeah. I mean one thing I would say to someone if they're doubting their memories because of something logistical like that I wouldn't basically you know too much you know just because like you're you know especially if you're dealing with memories like until you're for you're pretty far along in healing and and have most of your gaps filled in there are going to be a lot of things that are going to like not make a lot of sense that will make sense later you know so like so you know when I was first dealing with all the incest and trafficking memories having memories in the kennel for me was just like it felt like too crazy to be real you know like I was just like like really that's something that they would like they would treat me like a dog and drug me up and do bestiality and put me in K. You know it sounds it sounds so insanely foreign you know to like to you know your experience even as like a front person when because you've been so dissociated from your memories and and and clinical I'll say real quick I'm good at doing the clinical thing my like and my my therapists have called it like engineer brain. I just um like I like breaking things down into into its parts but the thing is is like I was incredibly dissociated from my emotions. Like I did not understand them what the feeling of anger how to recognize it you know like like sadness you know I was all of it you know was insanely dissociated for me until I started my trauma therapy like seven years ago. So for me my entry into healing has essentially been through having to learn how to break emotions down you know like into like a more like physical biological understanding of things you know so that you know because if you're a survivor you're gonna have trouble understanding emotions or dealing with emotions you know so that's that's also why I try and stick in that in that area. Sorry to go off on a tangent you know real quick. But so one thing I would say you know with the with the memories you know of like being like you know they've sacrificed a bunch of animals you know where could where could they get them from or like maybe they're a weird kind of animal or something like that. Like that I feel like I I wouldn't obsess over little things like that in my healing. I I because the answer will probably be filled in at some point in the future you should just deal with the things that are creating the emotional upset you know and if in those memories that you're dealing with it's about animals, you know, regardless of what animals or whatever else like you just have to like that's what I was saying no judgment. You just have to listen to that part and what they're sharing even if you don't understand it or have context for it because you probably will understand it, have context later. So what I would say is you'll probably end up getting context for like where these animals came from for me personally it was because of the kennel memory like it was essentially like um kind of like a more long-term boarding facility slash vet's office in a more rural area of Texas, you know so they um had a lot of land, you know they had like they had a lot of different a lot of different animals you know and they essentially would you know would it wasn't weird for there for them to be there essentially you know so and the thing is is like you're gonna have like um so some of the animals are just going to come from litters there, you know, for me like so for kittens or you know things like that. You know, but you're like if you're dealing with like more like weird things, you know, or farm things or different stuff like you have to understand if you're dealing with psychopaths like they network and they're in every sector of society you know so like they're not it's you know in my experience you'll have uh you know dentists doctors military you know um police officers you know and the thing they're their common you know like their title doesn't really matter the common thing that they like you know the reason they network with each other is because they share victims you know so and because they have the same interest in in you know harming people or animals or something you know so really like like if like I I wouldn't know like with someone's particular circumstance you know but like if someone has a fetish for killing a specific animal they're gonna find a connection to get access to it. It's not gonna be it's not more difficult than getting access to a kid you know we're talking about an animal you know so so really you know like like realistically like you're there if there's like a specific fetish of someone for certain animals or different things you know or whatever like they're gonna find a way they're gonna find a way to access it you know like they're gonna it's gonna you know or it's gonna be a convenience thing too maybe they just have like a friend who has like extra XYZ on hand and that becomes their you know that's like their new victim you know who knows you know but that's the thing I would just say is that it the animals you know if if they can get people if they can get kids for this kind of thing you know like like getting the animals is is really not going to be is not going to be difficult. You know there's there's in my experience pedophiles are never isolated. You know they're always networking they're always you know like essentially you know looking for others like them so that they can you know expand their you know their access to other victims and stuff. So I mean you know and I just enjoy you know being able to talk about the shit they like with someone else. So um so yeah like animals yeah like people yeah it's it's it's a lot of stuff for sure. Yes and you think about like you know with humans there's the the channels of obviously you could just straight up kidnap somebody but realistically there's breeding programs there's CPS like there's there's lots of ways that for Mexico in my ex like a lot of mine was in my experience you know was that like it you were going to be dealing with like maybe like like a lot of my experience was um you know was like Mexican kids basically because it was like Texas I was in in um Arizona and everything. So you're gonna have people that are you know coyotes you know they're trafficking people across the border like that you know like that you know you're gonna have like an an easy supply you know of of stuff. So and and in my experience you know those like I would say you know like one of them was probably like a baby farm in my experience you know or maybe just like a neglected kid you know that had gotten sold you know by by a parent but you know the the kids that for the hunting memory that I had talked about like they they were all like and I think this was intentional you know they were all like very uh very like like they hadn't just been kidnapped you know so they were kids that hadn't been traumatized that were in you know pajamas or different stuff like that but I think a lot of that was was intentional because it's like you know like I don't know how to describe it it's like you kind of don't want kids that are gonna dissociate you know it's like you want kids that are gonna act like afraid and like put up a fight and stuff like that you know so there's that there's different uses of you know really victims like like you're saying it's like animals people it's like it's the it's not just like the incident they put you through you know for the programming it's also the who they decide you know needs to fit the bill for the victim you know as well absolutely and so many of those ways can transfer over to pets you know like there's breeders of animals so if somebody had you know an an affinity or a fetish for say you know raw whilers for example like you could go to a breeder or you could ask a dog to call you whenever that that dog gets turned in you know like exactly there's definitely so many ways that people can have access to so thank you for that that was an interesting question so I appreciate you answering that of course that you wanted to cover tonight or anything else that you had on your list to cover um I think we got through most of the questions and you had answered some of them already yeah I know I answered a decent amount of them just just by our chatting and everything. I I really think I mean for me um I I feel like this is a great a great time to stop you know the only thing that like I hadn't really touched on you know that someone had mentioned was like was maybe you know like going into a little bit more detail on a couple of like of the more occult style rituals you know and you know that is something I'm willing to do like if you ever want to have me on in the future just because it um you know with everything else we we had talked about today it did feel like it was going to be like a whole nother like whole nother box to open up you know so um you know and I'm long winded you know I'm sure this is gonna be another long one. So thank you you know again for just you know giving me the platform to share and to just be really you know open about my experience and to feel like I can do something for the victims that like that haven't been able to have a say and everything. And and I just hope that you know that this will continue to like contribute to your podcast and like and you know our common goal of creating awareness around around like child trafficking and ritual abuse you know and snuff pornography and all the horrible things that still go on in this world that need to not anymore. So thank you Emma it's been it's been very healing.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:11

Oh my gosh this is some of the hardest stuff to talk about and I it takes it I want people to understand like how much it took for you to get up and share all of that. You know like I feel I still feel like I could cry. I'm sure you feel very emotional too like this is it's really heavy stuff that we're talking about here and it's it's real. So I'm so grateful that you're bringing attention to this because not that like you know going into detail is always necessary to understand that there's bad things but I think it just hits people differently to like be able to have the empathy like how you provided with like seeing a photo and imagining like what that child went through, you know, and I think when people can start to regain back their empathy, you know, that's when we start to make strides to like we're so disconnected from that as a society and like these stories always bring me back to that in my core you know and keep me connected to that and out of the you know the fear propaganda that so I see so many other people in you know like I'd rather be in the space of like this love and healing energy as hard as it is to experience I'd rather be on this side than like hating people and this fear mindset, you know so I appreciate the healing element that you bring to these conversations and for your vulnerability and for your courage to share some of the hardest things that you know to listen to to experience to even comprehend I appreciate you coming on here and sharing with people because I know the last time I mean so many people got incredible value out of it and I think they're gonna be just as touched this time you know so thank you Carrie for coming on it means the world to me.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:47

Well thank you again Emma for having having your podcast and it's been great healing for me you know and now it just feels like it it is a whole nother level yeah so so thank you. You're you're doing God's work and I I really appreciate all the work that you put in I hope people understand how much work you really do you know on your own time just to kind of like to help us all out.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:09

Well I appreciate you Carrie you make it easy and where can people find you you just started a YouTube channel so I want you to give the name of that so people can go follow you and then your Instagram also and I'll link those in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:22

Yeah yeah so um so my Instagram um and it's uh it's like a professional page so if you want to get through to me on there it would actually be best if you uh shoot me an email which is which is on there um but the Instagram is cover up underscore carry c A R R I E um because I am a uh I specialize in cover up tattoos um and then uh the title of the uh YouTube videos which I haven't put on yet it's Desert Dachini but you can just search um I don't know what the ad is I think so if you wouldn't mind just linking it you know I'm I'm not great with all the internet stuff.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:00

Absolutely I'm so excited you had talked about doing it last time and then you did it right after. So now you guys Carrie on YouTube and she's gonna start her own channel putting out content which is really exciting um and I can't wait to see what you create with that. So you guys go follow Carrie I'm gonna link all of her stuff below please share this however you can whether it's just to one person, whether it's posting it to a channel, sharing it with a friend. We need to get the word out on this, you know, and we need we need people to to get the awareness and we need people to care. We need people to take action we need more people to speak up we need more resources. Like there's so many reasons why we need to get these stories out you know and and I always say these platforms are not going to propagate or boost these up in the algorithm like we really need your help. Like you guys are the boots on the ground helping get this information out. We're here telling you but you guys are the help. You guys are the ones that take the envelope and you know deliver the mail to other people so please help us in doing this and share Carrie's story far and wide and thank you guys so much for listening and for tuning in and for just holding space for these really hard conversations and for sitting sitting through it with us. Like I know this was a really emotional episode and I appreciate the people that are still here right now listening to us talk. So thank you guys for caring enough to to listen to Carrie's story and to just hang in here with us and and understand these really hard things that are very real. So you guys go connect with us I have all of my information also in the show notes so follow us on social media share share share comment boost her up go follow Carrie go hype her go tell her how loved she is and amazing and as always you guys God bless you and we will see you next week