Career Pivots with Trushar Agrawal

Join Melissa as she has a candid conversation with Trushar Agrawal, Director at Kite Pharma.

In this episode we are discussing career pivots, managing a successful career and family, and how to create a development plan that is aligned to your goals.

Listen in to learn:

• Trushar's career journey and how he knew which pivots to make
• How to create a development plan that will help you get to where you want to be
• The power of networking and how to spark new connections
• Trushar's advice for how to grow your career in the pharma/biotech industry
• How to handle a pivot that you didn't choose - such as one that occurs with a company re-structure
• The one thing Trushar wish he would have know when growing his career

To apply for 1-1 coaching visit: www.melissamlawrence.com

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Transcript

Melissa

Okay. Hi, everyone. Today I have Trushar Agrawal agree with me, and we worked together at AstraZeneca, and we are going to talk about career pivots. So as, you know, I've now moved on and I have a career coaching practice. And Trushar also moved on. And so we're going to talk about what his career journey has looked like and his advice for making Pivots in your career. So Trushar, welcome to the podcast. Can you give our listeners just a little bit of a introduction about who you are, your current role, any other background information that you want to provide?

Trushar

Yeah. Hi, Melissa. Good morning. Hello, everyone. I'm Trushar Agrawal and as Melissa said, we both work at AstraZeneca together. I'm currently a director of quality systems and compliance with Kite Pharma, which is part of a brilliant company. And I've been with this company for almost two years now in my personal life, something about me. I've been married for 17 years. I have two kids, three years years old and the travel year old. They always keep me busy when I'm away from work. So other than that, something about me.

Trushar

I came to the United States almost 20 years ago. The idea was at that time to pursue my Masters in chemical engineering, spent two years here. I really liked everything about it. And then that my first break and then fast forward, 18 years. And here I am. So I've overall, it's been a great journey, but early period in this country, I can speak in more detail later on, but it was somewhat challenging to begin with.

Melissa

Yeah. It sounds like you have a full plate. If we back up to when you started your career in industry, can you give us a high level overview of your journey from entry level to now the companies and different roles that you have had?

Trushar

Yeah. Absolutely. So as I was just saying a minute ago, right. I came here in the United States to pursue my Masters right after my Masters year 2002. Right. Not the best time to look for the job because of all the unfortunate incident that happened in 2001, and I was in the job market, and I was pretty much applying for any job that I could get. And even with my chemical engineering degree, people were turning me down because, no, there were not enough jobs. And there were some other things around Visa.

Trushar

I applied for some jobs where I was grossly over qualified. And I was turned down at that time just because maybe I was too qualified for some of these jobs. Not definitely very hard. But I ended up getting my first job in Boston as a company called Aspen Tag that were making simulation software for chemical engineering. And I did that for a few months. And then I realized all of a sudden that this is not something that I'm going to enjoy for a long time. And I started speaking with folks in industry, and somebody I knew put me in touch with a company, a consulting company, a very small consulting company.

Trushar

And they were looking for somebody and to level to work in Pharmaceuticals. And at that time, I didn't know anything about Pharmaceuticals other than I have some family members that take drugs and I take multi vitamins. But other than that, I had no.

Trushar

Exactly. Right? It was. So it was funny, you know, and I got my first, I would say a break in pharmaceutical about 18 years ago, and I'm just so glad it worked out that way. And since then, I haven't changed. I guess the industry I have been in pharma for 18 years now.

Melissa

Okay. And so after how long were you at that first position before you moved on to another company?

Trushar

Yeah. So I was with that company for a good two years. And the reason I had to kind of move on from there because there was a lot of travel involved. And just like it goes in any other company, you make network connections. And I started talking to people that were helping me with the project, and they were working with me. And there was another opportunity in Indianapolis at that time, and it was a lead role. And like, hey, would you like to go for this? And I ended up going for it.

Trushar

So I changed my job at that time because of that reason. But one thing I would tell you about Pivoting career networking is very important. So kind of keep that in mind as you move forward.

Melissa

Yeah. It sounds like that really helped you get into that next position, right in Indianapolis.

Trushar

Absolutely. That's correct.

Melissa

Okay. And so what position was that?

Trushar

So that was a position as a validation engineer. And what validation engineers, people who are not in the industry. It's basically you are qualifying all the pharmaceutical equipment processes. And it is almost like making sure the quality is correct and the equipment functions the way it should before you start using them for manufacturing operation. And I work with many good companies at the time. I was with Jacob S engineering, and I did some projects with Eli Lilian company in Indianapolis area. I work for a small company, Canson some other small projects, but it was a great experience.

Trushar

Most of my experience early on, Melissa has been starting up new facilities. I really, really enjoy working with almost a new set of people every time. We are very craft root environment where we are building everything from scratch. And there are lots of unknowns. And you kind of figure out as you go. So it was a lot of fun. I work for Jacob's Engineering almost fires at that point.

Melissa

Okay. And what brought you out to Maryland?

Trushar

Yeah. So when I was working with Jacob's Engineering in Indianapolis, my wife was expecting our first child. And again, at the whole nature of consulting business, being always on the client side and traveling and looking for new work every time. It was very difficult. And then we found a permanent job. I found a permanent job with it's, a more established pharmaceutical company. So I spent some time there before we came to Maryland. It was with Baxter Healthcare in Bloomington, Indiana. And right after that, I was almost speaking in my career as that company.

Trushar

I felt that way, and there were not many opportunities, even it was a small town. I was working with a great bunch of people. It was a great company to work for, but just the new opportunities were not there. And somebody I knew in the industry, I called this person, and I said, hey, I heard that people in your company are looking for someone for this specific role. I found out that he was a hiring manager, the person I was talking to a very small world.

Trushar

So it's like, hey, you want to come and work for me? And I'm like, you know what? Let's give it a try. So that's how I ended up being a taste. I came there because I knew somebody who was going to work for. And the other thing, it was a new plan that we were building attached. Really enjoy building new plants and building new technologies, as well as building new teams. And that's what Melissa brought me to Maryland. Okay.

Melissa

So you were at AstraZeneca for how long?

Trushar

Again?

Melissa

It was a few years, right?

Trushar

About five years or so.

Melissa

Okay. And then you went to Kite where you are now?

Trushar

Yeah. I left with AstraZeneca about two years ago, and I joined Kite Farma again. They were building a new facility here in Alabama, Maryland, which is only five to seven minutes from my house. So that also helped. But just the overall mission of the company. They're making, they are curing cancer here, right? I mean, all the parent companies I worked for, we were making life saving drugs, but there's just something very special about this place. Right. And I really, really enjoy working here so far.

Melissa

Yeah. So it sounds like with these different changes that you've made some involved moves to that a lot of them are guided by your family. But then also you knowing about yourself that you really have a passion for kind of startups and helping to build something. Is there anything else that kind of goes through your mind when you're thinking about whether or not you're ready or interested in making kind of a pivot in your career?

Trushar

Yeah. Absolutely. So personal, no choices, right. Or personal circumstances. They play a huge part. But other than that, I just spending eight to 10 hours every day of your life working and sometimes more. Even the technology and everything is always connected to work. It's very important to kind of know what you like. And every time I made a move, it was never out of desperation, right. What I tell people. And this is what I did. You need to really spend some time to understand where the industry is going.

Trushar

You need to really stay current with what's going on. Right. So when I was looking for a job, I did not apply for any random place. I only had, like, five or six companies in my mind based on my research and the type of work they were doing. And I'm like, this is where I want to work, and if I get it, it's great. If not, then I will probably look for the other tier. So what it does, it really helps you narrow down the industry that you want to work in the field that you want to work and the type of role you want to have.

Trushar

So that's something I advise people when you are trying to make a move, just not only look at the job title, but also look at the company itself. Look at the culture. And if you know the people that you're going to work with, if there is any way to find out, that would be very helpful as well.

Melissa

Yeah. That's a really interesting approach that I think can help you create boundaries for yourself. So you don't end up settling or working for a company or in a role that you wouldn't really be happy working in if you kind of already decide. These are the companies that I'm interested in. And these are the types of roles that I'm interested in. So for people that may hear that and feel like they're just really unhappy where they are until they're applying at a lot of different places, just trying to get out and go towards something else so that they can maybe do work that's more satisfying for them or have a better work life balance, whatever the reason is, then what would you tell them as far as building that patience to stay where they are until they're ready to make the move that they know is right for them, as opposed to just applying everywhere and taking whatever is open to them.

Trushar

Yeah. That's a great question. And what I would say is the grass is always center. On the other side is the cliche goes. And there is a lot of truth in that, right. At least when you are working, you know what you are dealing with. Right. And whenever you make a job change, whether you are single with family or whatnot. But it is a big move for you. So you want to be very careful just randomly going for any company the way I look at it. Sometimes if you don't know the company that you are going to work for, take time to interview your boss.

Trushar

Right. I remember one time when I was was being interviewed. The hiring manager took like 45 minutes to ask me all the questions, and I did not have any time to ask any questions. I actually had to ask the HR rep to start up another call because I had many questions I wanted answered. Right. And he asked me, do you want to interview your boss? I'm like, of course. Yes. I'm going to work. Right. And I want to make sure that he can also answer some of the things that I have on my mind.

Trushar

So no, it's very important. I would say, let's not get desperate if you are going to get a feeling that you're gonna get miserable in your job. So don't wait until the point where you're just gonna fall apart. Right. Read the signs, read the message. No, I read it in between the lines and then start making the move if you are definite, if you are not really happy when you are working.

Melissa

Yeah. I love that interviewing your boss. I always advocate for that, too. And tell people that it's a two way street. It's not just are they thinking you're the right person for the role, but do you think you're the right person for the role? And do you think it's a culture that you can work in and it's a boss you can work for? And I think that also helps with the interview process, because I think when people go into it and they're just like, I want them to like me, I want them to think I'm qualified.

Melissa

I want them to hire me. Then they're not thinking as objectively about the role and about actually being in in that environment and how they can be successful in that environment.

Trushar

That's exactly right.

Melissa

I love that you called back and took that initiative. It I want more time. I have some questions. That's great.

Trushar

Yeah, I could have backfired, but I think it was worth it.

Melissa

But then you would know it wasn't the right job for you, right. If it was somebody who wasn't willing to take the time to answer your questions, 100% agreed. Yeah. So with all of these different pivots that you've made, have you regretted any of them?

Trushar

I did not regret any of my decisions. And it's not that I made all the right decisions. You always have some setbacks every now and then. But I don't regret any career move that I have taken so far. To be honest, that's good.

Melissa

You've learned something from everything that you've gone through, right?

Trushar

Absolutely. Yeah.

Melissa

So when you think about your career development plan, then when you're deciding that maybe you're ready for your next startup or your next challenge, what do you think about when you think about creating your development plan?

Trushar

Yeah. Career development plan. I always talk to my staff that they need to keep me honest with that career development plan. And even with my direct supervisor, I try to make sure that they understand what my career aspirations are. Keeping your manager on the toes, I think is very important. If you don't tell your manager what you want sometimes it's not going to happen for career development plan, right? You should always look at two to three years plan. I'm not a huge proponent of eight to ten years plan because life can take you wherever in that many years, especially for me.

Trushar

I always plan. My long term long range plan is always two or three years and short range plan is like six to twelve months. So think about next two to three years and see where you want to go, what your strengths are and your career development plan should not be around what your trend is, because if you are going to be in your comfort zone, you're never going to learn different things. So always try to fill in the gaps. So if you don't have certain skills, try to go for that skill and make sure you are really out of your comfort zone, because when you are out of your comfort zone, it really brings the best part of you.

Trushar

At least it does for me. So that would be my advice and make sure that you are not only speaking with your supervisor, you are speaking with your peers about your plan. You are speaking with people that really matter in your company, from skip level meetings would be very useful as well. So you are letting people know that you know what this is what I want to do, because you just don't know, right? When people know that this is what you want, and if there are opportunities in that area, they can definitely put you there.

Melissa

So do you have any I don't know if you've heard the term like a personal board of directors or kind of like people that you share your development plan with for feedback, or do you just do it by yourself with the partnership of your manager?

Trushar

So the way I look at it, if you have a mentor, right. And not everyone is very lucky to have a mentor. It took me many years to really meet somebody that I really put trust and somebody who could really not drive me. Right. So if you really have someone that you could trust, it doesn't have to be your manager. I actually prefer that it's not only your manager, it's somebody who can really help you guide. It could be your spouse partner. It could be somebody in the industry who can help you guide but share your goals and see what they think.

Trushar

It's always good to get feedback. So yeah, I strongly encourage kind of speaking with people and just getting their feedback as well.

Melissa

Yeah. And did your approach around your development plan change when you went from being an individual contributor to a people leader?

Trushar

Yes. Absolutely. Individual contributor. And keep a manager. It's very, very different skill set. And early on in my career, I was very, very happy as an individual contributor. I really liked what I was doing. I was controlling my destiny, and it's a very different role than leading a team of people. Right. And I almost hate that people manage, right? Because it's not only management see more as a leading team, right. And you have a bunch of bright individuals in your team, and you are responsible for the work that's assigned to your team.

Trushar

So you need to get that done. But at the same time, you need to look at their development. You need to look at their aspirations. That role is much more complex and you need to really think about your team before you only think about you. And you also need to to make sure all the business KPIs and their active you have, right. You are fulfilling them as well. Individual contributor role in our technical capacity would be very difficult, but you are still just worrying about you need to deliver at the end of the day, you are not overly worried about other people's objectives because you have other people managers.

Trushar

They are looking at it. So to me, that was kind of made the difference for me when I moved from individual contributor, a people manager role. And boy, it comes fast, right. If you have a couple of people in your team, they're going to drive you and they're going to make you think then you become a good manager pretty quickly.

Melissa

Challenging employees. So when you think back on your career, is there something that you wish you would have known that, you know, now.

Trushar

I would say the single most important thing is power of networking and just making yourself known to other people, making your interest known to other people. So early in my career, I was doing my job, I would speak with my manager. This is what I'm doing. I would do everything that was assigned to me, but I really missed out on many opportunities. I saw many other things happening around me, but I had no one to blame other than myself because I was really not networking and people around me that did not know what my interest was.

Trushar

And at the start, this guy is only good for this. So that's where I felt I really kind of missed out a little bit. And I could have done a little differently. But I learned fast and I tell everyone nowadays, right? You should always network, and I know it's not the easiest thing to do to call people and just chat about things. But trust me, there are a lot of people in your company you will find that would really appreciate that you are taking time to network with them and sharing your passion because people that really matter in the organization, they're always looking for people that can do different things and they're open to new challenges.

Trushar

So please go out and network as much as you can.

Melissa

So I think that's really great advice. Someone's thinking about networking, they might say, well, that's easier said than done. How do I just call someone up and ask them to network. Do you have a tip or a trick that you would use? Is it's just asking people for coffee or finding a mutual interest? Do you have anything that you found has been like an easy ice breaker to start that networking?

Trushar

Yes. Absolutely. I think the best thing to do, especially if you are working with that person and you're not interacting over Zoom interaction over Zoom. I definitely see more challenges than speaking with one on one. But this is a simple as breaker. Just introducing yourself with a brief email. And if you know something about that person, just say that. Hey, I have learned about this is about you and this is what I'm working. I I really would like to know more about what you do and maybe start the conversation there and maybe ask for 30 minutes of their time.

Trushar

Don't ask for an hour, but set something up two or three weeks from now so that they have time to speak with you. Maybe pick a day like Friday, right. Where the mood is little light, as you just said, over coffee. If you enjoy alcoholic beverages and if they're open, maybe take them out, take them out to beer or something. I think I have a bad idea. Yeah.

Melissa

Take the adjust before the meeting of work hours, of course.

Trushar

Right. Yes.

Melissa

Can you think of a setback that you've had in your career and kind of how you worked through it?

Trushar

So I would say Stagnation was the biggest setback for me just being stuck in a role for a long time. So I wouldn't call it like a major setback. But if you are not learning new things, you're not acquiring new skill or doing different doesn't mean you need to change jobs, even in your job. If you're just doing the same thing over and over, you can get bored pretty easily. Right. And knowing all the millennials now, right? It's very difficult for them to do the same thing over and over.

Trushar

So that was one of the biggest problem for me at that time. And sometimes we all have good managers and bad managers. And when your manager sometimes does not believe in your skill, or maybe they have a certain mindset that this person is only good for this and that would really kind of throw you off. Always take feedback with a grain of salt. You should always seek feedback from everyone. I still remember Malissa days when I got a feedback from one manager that I Act in a certain way and I need to improve on that.

Trushar

And right after that, within six months, my manager changed and I got a completely opposite feedback. Right. So maybe I was overcompensating or it's just who you work with. Right. So sometimes you just need to take the feedback with a grain of salt and see what really interests you and try not to just do the same thing over and over, because when you are doing that, you kind of stopped adding value to the company as well as stop adding value to your long term career plan.

Melissa

Yeah, definitely. I think when people get really bored in their roles and they start being complacent because it's just they're not as engaged because they're not as mentally challenged or yes, fulfilled. When you think about people that might be looking to kind of take the next step in their career, specifically in the Pharma biotech industry, whether it be from individual contributor to people manager, or maybe they're people manager, and they want to get to senior leadership, get to a director level. What is a piece of advice that you would offer them?

Trushar

Yes. Absolutely. I would say no. Your strength, right. What? You really are good at, what you enjoy doing, right. And then look for opportunities outside. There are so many things that are happening. And if you are staying current with what's going on in the industry, you would find out where you really want to go. Right. I would say try to learn things outside of your comfort zone if you are, as I was saying earlier, just working in one function. I'm not learning about other function. It could be difficult as well.

Trushar

So if you are an individual contributor, you want to be a people manager and you don't have any experience as a people manager. How do you make that switch? Right. So what you can do, you can take on small projects. You can say, you know what? I'm going to lead a small team, and I'm going to complete this project, make yourself known to your senior management and do things that are outside of your eight to five job function. And by doing that, you would really make yourself visible in your organization.

Trushar

And people would know that this person is really ready for the next job. And as I said, if you are not getting everything from your direct manager, speak with other people in the organization that can have an impact on your next career mode.

Melissa

That's great.

Trushar

Does that help, Melissa?

Melissa

Yeah, it definitely does. So let's shift a little bit to your management style. So you talk a little bit about your management style when it comes to career development. I'm just curious, given the journey that you've had from individual contributor moving to different companies, different States, different countries, all of these things, what is your management style and how did you develop that style?

Trushar

Yes. So it was over a period of time. So when I moved from individual contributor role to my first management role, I was a terrible leader. I wouldn't call semi leader. I was just trying to keep up with what was going on day to day and just keep my hair above the water. And I soon realized that this was not going to work. You really need to empower your team. Right. And I started attending many classes on leadership. I started speaking with people that I thought that were very effective leaders, and I kind of started getting pointers from them.

Trushar

I started following, them and see how they function and what I noticed that good leaders, they don't need to know everything. As a matter of fact, most of the leaders, they really don't the team members, they know more than them about that specific function and the role they are playing. So I really believe in empowering your team and making sure that you give them enough room so they can foster you, allow them to make their own mistakes, don't make all the decisions for them. Let them make the decisions, help them guide what needs to be done.

Trushar

I know it's very easy to say it's very difficult to really implement it. When you know about certain things, you're going to jump in and make a decision. I still make that mistake once in a while, but you really need to kind of step back and let your team kind of make that decision, empowering them. And the other thing I will tell you, it is trust. You need to really gain your team trust. They need to know that you are going to be there for them when going get stuff.

Trushar

Everyone is happy when things are going good, but your character is really trusted when things are not going in the right direction. So we're not covering up for your employee, but keeping them honest, giving them feedback, but don't crucify them when things are not going right. Allow them to make them make their own mistakes.

Melissa

Yeah. I mean, that sounds like a a style that's very conducive to development, to have the opportunity to be able to make your own decisions, to be able to fail sometimes and not let that be something that penalizes you, but that you get to grow from it. That's wonderful. I think that's ideal in a lot of situations. That's great. We spoke a lot about kind of your intentional pivots, like the changes that you've made in your career and what went into your deciding factors around making those choices.

Melissa

So if we then talk about kind of the reality of this industry sometimes, which is that there's a lot of re orgs, it's fast paced, were ever changing, very dynamic, often matrix environment. What advice would you give to someone that finds themselves in a forced pivot? They didn't choose to make that change, but they found themselves in a reorg structure that just made them shift manager, shift team shift responsibilities a little bit. What would you tell that person?

Trushar

It's a great question. And the most of the industries are nowadays, right? That happens to probably most of us every now and then. So this is what I'll tell you. You need to really know what was the reason for the reorganization, right? Was this reorganization done as part of some company moves that were completely out of your control and at the same time, they were not because of you. Right. There are certain moves. They were made because you were not a good performer and you were moved to a different role.

Trushar

Right. So I want to make sure there are two different things. We understand if you were moved because company's business model change and you need to do something different, that's very different. And so you need to really read the message that your management or your company is sending you. If it is part of regular reorg, then I would say, be patient, try to learn new skills. If you are supposed to do something different than what you were doing before. Now, as part of the reorg, I say it's a good thing.

Trushar

Sometimes it really makes you think outside of the box. And one person told me a long time ago that person that I really like. If you really want to be an effective leader in an organization, you really need to learn about three to four different functions. They kind of work with you. So I spent a good amount of my time in quality, but I spend equal amount of time in engineering, in validation supply chain. So doing different things, right. So that's that's something I would say people should do when they are kind of place with this choice.

Trushar

And at the end of the day, if you feel like this is not working out, then start making you move. However, if you were rear because of their performance, then you really need to see if this is something you did or is just you are in the wrong place. And at that point, you need to start looking for new opportunities. I know it's not easy to say, but you have to do it, because if you are moved to a different role, the company is just giving you some time before they boot you out.

Melissa

Okay. Well, that's good. I appreciate that candid input on that. I'm sure it's getting a lot of people thinking, hopefully not getting paranoid. This is a good segue then, because I wanted to ask you if someone isn't sure what their next move should be. So if they kind of know a little bit about what they like, but they're just kind of not fulfilled in their role anymore, and they're not sure what all of their strengths are or what might be a good fit for them. What advice would you give them to help them figure out their next move?

Trushar

So I will tell you right. Making your next move is almost like buying a new house. Right. You go with your checklist and you see, these are the ten things I want in my house. And you look at ten houses and you're not going to find everything in every house, right? You're just going to find a few things. So a very similar thing with jobs searching when you are looking for a new opportunity. Look for things that really matter to you. Don't look for things that are still there, but they really don't care about to me most important thing.

Trushar

Look for the company culture, right? Go on. Many websites. There are many good websites nowadays where employees, current employees and past employees can provide the feedback. Read the feedback. If you know folks in the company, speak with them. The job function that you're going to learn about the job function and see if that really interests you or not. And there is not going to be any job that's going to be perfect, right. And sometimes if you see this is a great company and the job that you have is not perfect.

Trushar

I would say just jump and take that job because most companies nowadays they allow you easily to move within company after a few years. And you're going to find out once you join the company that you know what I like this. But I could be doing something better here. And as part of your career development plan, you start working with your manager and other people. So again, you need to think a little long term and not just wait for a perfect opportunity. I just go with something that seems pretty close to perfect.

Melissa

Okay. And then what are you doing to ensure that you continue to grow as a leader, just as a person, as far as your career development and your personal development.

Trushar

I would say 360 feedback is very important. It's one thing to get feedback just from your manager, but try to get feedback from your peers, from your direct reports and see what are the things that you can improve on and try to learn new things, right? Just not get stuck with what you are doing. Take interest in other functions. So if you're going to different meetings and if you're part of one organization and in that meeting, there is nothing going on that's related to your work, still pay attention.

Trushar

Try to learn and you realize that you would learn so much about that function and you can probably contribute at some point understand the business drivers, see where your company is going, what is really, really important for your company, and that would really make you grow as a leader. Once you kind of know the drivers, what direction the company is going and what is expected out of leaders. So these are a few things I kind of try to look at, and I try to tell people as well that that really helped me.

Trushar

Over the last few years. I feel like improve myself.

Melissa

That's great. That's great advice. Is there anything else that you wanted to mention or say to our listeners about your pilots, your career, any advice that you give?

Trushar

Yeah. Absolutely. I would say be very positive. Keep a positive mindset. Things are going to be difficult. The life throws a lot. There are a lot of things we cannot control. But when you have a positive mindset, most of the things become a lot easier because it gives you strength. When you have this kind of a mindset, it gives you a lot of strength to work on things. Make sure you have two or three good people that you can count on. That can guide you. That can give you honest feedback and tell you what's going on and what you can improve on and the other thing.

Trushar

Don't let other people push you around. What I mean by that once you know that this is not your weakness. But if somebody's telling you this is your weakness as other people, and if you don't get the same feedback, just don't let somebody drive your next career move right? You need to be smart enough and know that that may not be the right company for you at point, and you need to move on. But at the other end, you can be doing the same thing right.

Trushar

If you do the same thing, you get jaded. So try learning new skills with the positive mindset would be very helpful.

Melissa

Yeah, that sounds really good. So it sounds like you're saying know yourself and know what you want to know what you're good at. And I think I've heard of saying something like feedback is a gift, and you get to decide if you want to keep it or return it.

Trushar

That's right.

Melissa

You can validate it and decide if it's something that you want to keep or if it's something you gift to someone else to return it for a credit.

Trushar

That's so true.

Melissa

All right. Well, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your I'm sure that it was very valuable for everyone to hear.

Trushar

Hey, thank you, Melissa. Thanks for the opportunity. Good luck, everyone.