How Glenn Daley's Experience Shapes Aviation Safety Part 2 | Ep 361

Welcome back to the Hangar Z Podcast, brought to you by Vertical HeliCASTS, in partnership with Vertical Valor Plus.  

Our guest is retired Lieutenant Glenn Daley of the New York City Police Department Aviation Unit. Glenn’s career in airborne law enforcement spans decades of service, leadership, instruction, and experience, that has taken him around the world. This conversation is powerful, emotional, educational, and, without question, one of the most important discussions we have had on this podcast.

This series begins on Sept. 11, 2001, at 8:46 a.m., the moment American Airlines Flight 11 struck the North Tower of the World Trade Center. Glenn takes us back to that horrific morning and provides a firsthand account of the response by NYPD Aviation assets during one of the darkest days in American history. He shares not only the operational response, but also his personal experiences and how that day forever changed him both professionally and personally.

Throughout this series, we walk through Glenn’s remarkable NYPD career, including his time assigned to the Special Enforcement Unit, and discuss the transition into flying and instructing after retirement from the department. Glenn’s passion for aviation safety and training is evident throughout every episode.

One of the most impactful parts of this conversation is our deep dive into IIMC (inadvertent flight into instrument meteorological conditions). Glenn shares his extensive knowledge and experience on what pilots and crews must do to prevent and survive these situations. We discuss go and no-go decision making, simulator training, proficiency versus currency, instrument ratings, crew coordination, and the mindset required to avoid tragedy. These lessons are real-world, practical, and potentially lifesaving.

Episodes like this truly have the power to save lives someday, and we are incredibly fortunate that Glenn was willing to share his experiences, knowledge, and perspective with all our listeners.

This is a conversation you will not forget.

Thank you to our sponsors Precision Aviation Group, Robinson Helicopter and SHOTOVER.

Transcript

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The Hanger Z Podcast welcomes retired Lieutenant Glenn Daly of NYPD Aviation. Preparation is the key. Knowing that it can happen to you, that you are not, you know, immune from this happening, and you can't fix it without planning. Again, I say put me with all my, you know, 7,000, 8,000 hours, lots of hundreds of hours, actual FR, put me in a jet ranger, fly me into a cloud tonight. I give myself a 50-50 chance of surviving. There's a video by the U.S. helicopter safety team called 56 Seconds. That's the average time in all these recorded crashes the person has lived after once they penetrated on IMC. Have a plan and make it part of your SOP, part of your protocols. Encourage. Pat the guy on the back and hold the guy up who makes the landing in the park, not who gets it done through thick or thin. Welcome to a very special three-part series of the Hangers E podcast. Our guest is retired Lieutenant Glenn Daly of the New York City Police Department's Aviation Unit. Glenn's career in airborne law enforcement spans decades of service, leadership, instruction, and experience that has taken him around the world. This conversation is powerful, emotional, educational, and without question one of the most important discussions we have had on this podcast. Glenn takes us back to that horrific morning and provides a first-hand account of the response by NYPD aviation assets during one of the darkest days in American history. He shares not only the operational response, but also his personal experiences and how that day forever changed him both professionally and personally. Throughout this series, we walk through Glenn's remarkable NYPD career, including his time assigned to the Special Enforcement Unit, and discuss the transition into flying and instructing after retirement from the department. Glenn's passion for aviation safety and training is evidenced throughout every episode. One of the most impactful parts of this conversation is our deep dive into inadvertent IMC. Glenn shares his extensive knowledge and experience on what pilots and crews must do to prevent and survive these situations. We discuss go and no-go decision making, simulator training, proficiency versus currency, instrument ratings, crew coordination, and the mindset required to avoid tragedy. These lessons are real-world, practical, and potentially life-saving. Episodes like this truly have the power to save lives someday. And we are incredibly fortunate that Glenn was willing to share his experience, knowledge, and perspective with all of our listeners. This is a conversation you will not forget. Thank you to our sponsors, Shotover Systems, Precision Aviation Group, and Robinson Helicopter. Welcome to the Hanger Z Podcast. Brought to you by Vertical Helicasts. The Hanger Z Podcast is the first and only podcast dedicated to promoting and exploring the personnel and equipment behind the missions in public safety aviation. So Southbound's getting to a stop down by here. Looks like you're getting ready to bail. Heads up, guys, bailing. Okay, the guy, he's running through the house, jumping the fence, through the shotgun, through something out, grabbing the shotgun. Don't go over that fence. Don't go over that fence. Grab the shotgun again. He is armed. Stay there. Hold your position. We had a guy one day in the housing project who this was this was March. He had a Christmas tree left over from Christmas. So how dry is this Christmas tree? He takes it in the elevator on the top floor of the housing project to go down to the basement and makes the mistake of lighting up a cigarette and the tree went on fire and immolated him before he got to the lobby. Oh my. Unbelievable. We were there with ashes that were a tree and a complete third-degree burns over 90% of his body. Dead is a doornail person. Elevators and housing projects are very dangerous based. Oh, yeah. Heck yeah. And on another call, I responded to shots fired in Trump Tower when I was a sergeant in Midtown North. We still went to the floor below, got to the floor. It was some millionaire who lost stock his stock portfolio and killed himself. Yeah. We didn't have to deal with a bad guy, but we didn't know we weren't going to deal with a bad guy. We just knew someone heard a shot and no one answered the door. And there was music in that elevator, right? Oh, yes. Just checking. Very special music, very fine music, only the best music. Some very powerful music. The best music that you've ever heard that there's ever been. They never heard music like this elevator music. Oh, that's great. Oh, well, maybe you covered it here, but I but I'm still gonna ask you most impactful incident prior to the cat bringing you that that patch. Oh. I mean, I know you got uh believe me, I get this question all the time too. And you how do you pick one? You've got thousands. You know what? I don't have lots that jump out. When I was in ASU, the emergency service unit, you handled such a variety. You know, it's it's a very corny saying, but when a when a civilian needs help, they call the cops. When a cop needs help, they call emergency services. Yeah. So you you get like everything weird. And we prided ourselves on the issue of never saying we don't do that. Even though there were many, many, many times where under my breath I was saying, really? You you you called me here? Everything from people stuck in elevators to light poles falling down with exposed wires. Like we automatically become experts on electricity. Like I can still electrocute myself fixing this light pole. To weird animal jobs handling BOA constrictors that are literally loose inside of my emergency service truck that I'm wrestling. Uh a myriad of very strange things. But I I did a podcast about six months ago where I remember afterwards I said, I wish I would have told him that story. Yeah. And I'll never forget, I was assigned as a as the ESU armor and tactics instructor at Floyd Bennett Field. And the next hanger from aviation was ESU's hangar, where all the special equipment was in the training school. And the next hangar, suitable appropriately enough, was the home of the local circus. And sometimes the lines blurred between the police hangar and the circus hangar. You could do mistake one for the other. And something called the Big Apple Circus was based in this old defunct, you know, 1930s hangar, and we were in the one across the way. And I'm just a day, there was no classes to teach. So it was basically doing tactical lesson plans and some weapons maintenance. And a knock on the door, and this Chinese acrobat performer, I have a later find, knock on the door. She goes, I need your help. What do you what's the problem? She goes, My girlfriend, who's also a Chinese acrobat, is with the traveling team of the circus. They're out doing a visit at a at a at a school upstate New York. This is pre-cell phone. This is 19, if I had to guess, 87, 88. She called me from a rest area when they stopped for gas and said she wants to defect. She's tired of communist China. She wants a defect. Can you help us? I'm like, now Glenn's, you know, I w I was almost involved in the shoot down of two civil aviation planes. Now now I'm in the middle of an international incident with the Red Chinese. And NYPD has a guide that's this thick manual, and everything's in there, including foreign nationals seeking asylum. So I told her, I says, when is she going to get here? They're expecting to be back at about three o'clock. And she's they're supposed to make another stop, and she said she would call me again. I said, Well, you tell her this door here is you know, this is a police facility. I can't come out and intervene in a public place. But if she gets to the police facility, it's like almost getting into an embassy, I can provide her sanctuary. And I call my boss up and he's like, What are you involved in now? Really? Is this a practical joke? No, it's really serious. And they have to call operations and they have to call the State Department, and they got to call all the people. And sure enough, I have a 12-gauge shotgun just inside the door, and I'm standing out with my arms, you know, looking like Joe Tuff guy. And here comes this car with these two goons driving it, and these dudes, these were your typical central casting minders to make sure people didn't defect. Well, the acrobat did her acrobat stuff and tumbled out of a moving car, did a forward double somersault half-gainer whifferdill, landed on her feet, ran into my arms, we let her in the hangar, these two thugs trying to push me out of the way, and my best Hollywood dramatic central casting scene. I take the shotgun and rack around and goes, You're not coming in here. She's with us now. And they got into a big heated argument in Chinese, and they tried to come in again, and we told them it wasn't a really good idea to come in here. And then people with more rank than I've ever seen show up on the NYPD in the State Department and they take her away. I never knew what happened to her. But that was like Oh my god. Friendly fire, shoot down check, international incident check. All the only thing I didn't do was stampede cattle in Times Square. You know, if I would have stayed around long enough, I'm sure I could have got that. That's that's kind of a gimme, you know, geez, after that. So that might not have been the most serious job, but it was it was humorous and memorable, and it was cool. That's I like very exactly how he played off. He didn't have any impactful incidents. Yeah. Oh, wait, here's one over here. Yeah, but I but I did have this Chinese gymnast. Oh my god. John McClane didn't have that. Yeah, jeez. That's great. All right. Well, I'm glad I asked that. Okay, before we get to the unit, the the aviation unit, where I'm gonna ask you to do the thumbnail. I I gotta ask you about something I learned yesterday. Yesterday, when you and I chatted briefly. Tell us about your first helicopter flight, Glenn. That's courtesy of the Los Angeles Police Department. It was November 6th, 1984. How do I remember that? I know I was out there. How do you remember that, Glenn? I was out there testing to become a member of the Los Angeles Police Department. Uh-huh. I had uh five years, no, three years on the NYPD. I wanted to spread my wings a little bit and try out the West Coast. So they very conveniently do the testing in a one-week period. Yep. Where you go there, you spend a week, and by the time you're done, you know where you stand on the list. And remember, I was at the police academy at the uh Revolver Athletic Club shop. Yep. And there's a newly promoted sergeant who just got assigned to the field who came from air support. And we got to talk and he said, Oh, you're a New York City cop. I said, Yeah, I work in the South Bronx and blah blah blah. He goes, Have you done ride-alongs then? I said, Yeah, I went with I went out with Southwest, then went with Hollywood. I really wanted to learn what it was like to be a street cop in LA. He goes, Have you been up with air support? I said, I didn't even know that was possible. You know, if I went to New York City aviation at the time, they would have laughed me out of the hangar. He goes, Oh, hang on, let me call the let me call the watch commander. He called the watch commander. He goes, if you can get over there in the next 30 minutes, it's 555 Ramirez Street. Don't take you out on patrol. He remembers the address, ladies and gentlemen. He remembers the address. And tell us who the crew was. Tell us who, because they, you know. Rick Altori and Ron Tingle. I have their business cards. I went, dusted off this old before people had iPhones and asked to save business cards. I have this binder. They're still in there on the first page. That is so cool. So I went out to the heliport, and it was the night of Reagan's re-election. It was election day 1984. Yeah. And Marine One was parked there. And they I come scurrying in and I got my girlfriend with me. I'm like, what about her? They go, we'll take care of her. Don't worry about her. So we'll put her in the uh roll call room. Yeah. And remember they handed me a headset and a and an oversized flight suit, gave me a quick safety briefing, and 10 minutes later, I'm over Central Division Flying Patrol. That set the hook. Like, if I didn't want to be a police aviator prior to this, that set the hook. And we went out for a very eventful two-hour patrol. I came back, I'm like, I know what I got to do now. And subsequently, I did I got cold feet. I scored super high. They wanted me in the very next academy class. Should I, shouldn't I, should I, shouldn't I? I was uh getting doing the career path to get to emergency services in New York. Long story short, I got cold feet. The day before I was supposed to move, I had an apartment rented at Burbank and Balboa in the valley. I had my academy. I was there the day before. I had my letter of resignation into the NYPD. The day before, I said, if I got this much indecision over this, it's not good to make a life life-altering decision. I backed out of it. And then I reactivated it again. That was 19 early 85. Yeah. I reactivated it again in 87. Then I said, let me just stop this nonsense and just concentrate on NYPD. And it worked out. Between ESU and aviation, I I got to two of the best units you can ever work in and had experiences that I can't trade for for anything in the world. Incredible. Tangle and Alatory. So t John, tell them your Alatory connection. Because that ready, Glenn. Rick's son Derek, I worked with an Ontario Pedia support. Uh Derek's now a pilot in our aviation unit and is doing phenomenal. So it's funny how these worlds so seemingly large are so small. Yeah. It is. It is small. That is so cool. That do you still remember the names, the places, uh the address of the heliport. Wow. That's it wasn't called Hooper yet. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Because this was what what year? This was November of 84. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that was they had just moved in. Because um Blue Thunder was filmed there prior to the move-in. And Blue Thunder was filmed in 82, 83, came out in 83. Uh, so they had just moved into that into that facility. Um and airframe uh that you flew in, Glenn. 206 B3. Yeah, baby. Yep. Night sun, no camera. Yep. Binocular, driver stabilized binoculars, a map book, a pilot and a TFO. God bless America. The wildest time times on ride-alongs with LAPD on the field. I went out with Southwest Division twice. I ended up in a foot pursuit holding people at gunpoint in South Central LA. It was it was crazy. And the backup units arrive. I got a New York City police officer shield hanging on a chain. I'm holding one at gunpoint. And they show up. It's like, who the F are you? I'm part of a task force. Glendaley, Bronx Task Force. So, like, and they said, Look at the sergeant. I was riding along and goes, don't worry about it. Just John McClain. I'm just here for Christmas. Hook him up. Oh, that is so good. Is that is Southwest where you met Steve Stein? No, I met him back in New York in a bar, and we're talking about LAPD. He goes, I'm in the LAPD. I said, Well, I want to be in the LAPD. And we were going to be roommates when I was going to move back out there in 87. Okay. We became really fast friends. Yeah. Steve's easy to become friends with. Great guy. I met him through soccer on the department, is how I met Steve. I've never worked with him, but but I knew I think he was a Southwest guy for quite a while. That's why I was curious. He hooked me up with two fantastic sergeants there. Yeah. Do you remember their names? First one was Frank Micah. Oh, geez. Who was Oh my gosh. I can just tell this guy was he he was the real deal. And the second one, I have it written down. The name escapes me. But they were both Frank Micah, I will never forget. We're pulling out of Southwest Division. And he goes, What kind of gun do you got with your Glenn? Well, I flew out here commercial. I don't have a gun. He screeches on the brakes, goes back inside, comes out. I remember it was a three-inch model 64 with a round button Pacmire grips. He goes, Don't flash it around. He goes, Well, we're going into a very serious neighborhood that you might not be used to. He goes, Don't hesitate to use it. He goes, Do you know how to operate an Ittica 37 shotgun? I said, Yes, I do. He gives me a key to the shotgun rack. He goes, now we can go on patrol. I'm like, Oh my God. This is Disneyland for cops. It is. It is. Thank you to our sponsor, Shot Over. Shot Over Systems is the leading developer and manufacturer of high-performance gyro stabilized cameras with advanced real-time AR mapping and mission management. All backed by unparalleled custom training and support. Now offering the M2 Multi-Sensor System, sole six-axis EOIR platform with 4K Ultra HD color and infrared technology. Ideal for law enforcement and defense. Offered with real-time AR overlays to quickly identify streets, weather, and traffic, automated license plate recognition, 24 megapixel digital photographs, and automated steering and tracking. So I gotta I gotta say this Frank Micah, legendary, legendary LAPD officer. He has since passed. I saw that. Yeah, Frank was a that was a great loss to to everyone that that knows Frank. Everyone knows Frank. Uh I was at Old Abbott uh in DC this past May, and I'm there with Bruce Hunt and Don Schwarzer, and a young man comes up and uh he sees one of us. I think Bruce had a SWAT logo on his polo. And um he said, uh, excuse me, sir, uh I were you with LAPD SWAT? And Bruce goes, uh yes, I was. He goes, Oh, I wonder if you know my my grandpa. Frank Micah was his grandpa. He was entering the Marine Corps the next day, this young man, I believe, or Officer Canada School, or something with the Marines. And it was just like when when that name comes up, Frank Micah, it's just uh very special. We only spent one tour together on one watch on patrol. That guy impressed me. Oh, geez. He was a SWAT guy, a metro guy, uh tactic sergeant. Um, for years he was the tactical sergeant and just a gem, the mica holster, the mica mirror, you know. There's so much stuff that I think his brother was in on that too. But but Frank was a special man. I'm so glad that I learned that you had a ride along with Frank. That is really cool. Um, okay, back to back to NYPD aviation. Thumbnail. I know it's you've been retired a long time now, uh but give us the thumbnail overview of NYPD aviation and of NYPD as it was and as it is, to the best of your knowledge now. I know things change, airframes change all the time. I know you do pretty much. Give us the thumbnail. Well, just uh the basics as far as unit composition and mission. Yeah, and airframes and all, you know, because I got there at a very interesting time. I got there in May of '93, and that was during a major paradigm shift. We can talk about that a little bit later. But as far as airframes, then it was two 412s and four two oh sixs. It was one L4 and three B3s. Now it's two four twelves, four 429 patrol ships, a 407 trainer, and it's the worst kept secret in the world. They have an unmarked surveillance aircraft that's used in a 208 caravan, which they you know put out to the press, we have a secret surveillance aircraft. So it's not me, you know, talking out of school to say that they're a six-wing program. And the mission the two bread and butter missions are patrol, very similar to LAPD, but a very robust what they term Air C rescue, and that's with the 412s. And they've been heavy into that for 40 years. Now they got their first 412 in 1986. Prior to that, they were flying the Air C rescue mission with B-model Uis, these ancient B-model Uis. I look back on them. I used to ride them when I was in emergency services. Probably the most dangerous thing I did in my law enforcement career was getting these Vietnam surplus B model Uis. And they switched over to 412s in 1986. And they still they have two relatively new, the new Subaru manufactured 412s. Yeah. Wow. What give us the overview of NYPD? I think most people know it's the largest law enforcement uh agency in the world, but but give us give us those numbers then and now. I know they're they're different, but uh run with that. Staffing, I'd have to take a guess at what it is today. I can tell you what it was. We approximately had 30 pilots, 20 mechanics, three or four sergeants, six patrol sergeants uh pilot sergeants and two maintenance sergeants and a maintenance lieutenant. And what about the whole department uh citywide? What are the numbers? Thirty uh thirty five thousand sworn. It it fluctuates politically. They they will they'll hold up academy class. Under normal conditions, it's it's uh it's something very tough for non New York people to get their head wrapped around. There is an academy class of 1,000 recruits virtually every six months. Yeah. So that's roughly 2,000 a year because the attrition is through the roof. Yeah. Yeah. Like I I was an outlier. I stayed 23 years. I could have retired at 20 years. Most everybody else, 20 years in a minute, retire. Right. Right. Tell us uh, didn't they used to hold um graduations at Madison Square Garden? Yes. I mean, it was so big with family friends, and you got a thousand recruits. That's where I graduated, the police academy in Madison Square Garden. How cool is that? I mean, just that's a whole different world. It is a an entirely different world when you're dealing with the numbers of MYPD. It's it's it's mind-boggling, even to experience cops. They they learn about it and go, hold it, how many? You know, it's just it's amazing. It's amazing. It's a it's a huge command and control challenge. Yeah. Because you have, frankly, uh almost too many people to effectively train and do recurrent training with a huge problem. Well the first thing that always slips, we know, is training. It's the first thing that slips, and and that is the case with the NYPD today, where they're going to the range very infrequently, the average patrol officer. The academy is nothing like it used to be. Uh at the range, they give you 10 times to re-qualify if you fail your weapon qualification. They they they deal with quantity and quality takes a back seat. And I take no joy in in saying that. I know you don't. But it's but it it is part of the reality. I mean, I can kind of relate to some of that. Well, I can relate to some of it. You know, when we had 9,000, it was like, you know, that's a fraction of what NYPD was. But to train the whole department on, you know, a day of training on updating information live in a classroom, it took months and months and months. The training sucked. It was people teaching you classes, reading PowerPoints. It was a joke. It was an absolute joke. And then they would uh take uh, you know, a lot of it became computerized, which was a complete joke. I mean, nobody learned anything, but it's because of the size. I mean, it it's I understand it. It's not, it's not like uh they're trying to you know shortcut the training, it's it's just out of necessity because it's so freaking huge. And then 35,000. I mean, how do you keep people updated? It's it's amazing. It's virtually impossible. Yeah. And the problem is there are less and less and less seasoned street cops to teach new cops because you get X amount of training in the academy, an X amount in service, and it used to be you get the bulk of your training. I was so lucky. I I referenced that unit that I went to after the 7-5 precinct, the tactical patrol force, which was senior seasoned. It was a little bit like Metro. It was the disorder control unit that when there weren't disorders, because let's face it, there aren't riots every day of the week. Yeah, they would they would flood high crime precincts with us, and our job was basically to put people in jail. Yep. Just like this. I learned I learned from solid, proven street cops. I am so thankful I went through that pipeline and and and like, how would I have been without these guys as mentors? How would it have turned out? Oh, I think about that every single day. I feel lucky to have done it in the time frame I did it too, when there were still veteran street cops that had that were training officers. I mean, those days are gone. Those days are gone. There are so few of them. One of the most rewarding assignments I had, not the most glamorous, I was a field training sergeant, and they switched from field training officers to field training sergeants in the early 90s. And nobody wanted to do it. And my commanding officer said, I'd like you to be a field training sergeant. I said, Well, if we if you meet me halfway, and my my deal was this my precinct was getting 50 new officers. I said, I get to pick of the litter. I get to pick the five that I want. And I had some half-assed metric that I thought up on my own that that proved pretty sound for picking good street cops. Yeah. And one of the most rewarding years of my life was doing field training with these new cops. Like it was like having raw clay in your hands. And I remember the first day I said, you've just been told for six months in the police academy what you shouldn't do, better not do, and ought not do, and you're gonna get in trouble. I said, I'm here to teach you what you can do and how to be very proactive and still do things right. Yeah. And most importantly, stay safe. Yes. Big impact. You have such an impact in that role on young officers. We lived at the range. There's a range at the police headquarters, and nobody utilizes it. And I'm like, wait a minute, they'll give me two guys would go in the car with me every day, and the rest would go out on foot. Whoever was in the car, we'd go right to the range at the beginning of the tour. And the range guys loved it because it showed activity for them, which kept their their position very, very safe. Yeah. But it was one of the most rewarding assignments I have was do field training. And to look now that you have people working with rookie cops that have barely more experience than they have. Yeah. That's it's scary. It is. It is absolutely frightening when you see that happening where there's rookies training rookies. And especially in a large urban area where there's a lot of activity, you know, that that can kill you and and get you in trouble. And get and you know, uh, it's part of the problem. It's part of the problem of uh the defund, uh, demoralized, dehumanize, all that crap is all the senior people that said, I'm out of here. I don't need this. And now you lose them, and guess what? They were your best asset for training the new people. And it's it's happening everywhere. Departments of every size are have experienced that. Wow. Very cool. I got a question for you that it's not related to training. This is more of again a curiosity. Uh I remember going to New York City and in uh gosh, I remember I can't remember the year now. I think it was oh nine. Last year that old Inky Stadium was was standing, uh, whatever year that was. And I was fascinated and still am by NYPD and got a chance to run into some officers and got a chance to say hi and exchange patches, which is really cool. But for for folks that haven't been there, what are the the must-do's and must-sees for a police officer that's visiting the city of New York? Well, I used to say go to the police museum, but it was flooded with Hurricane Sandy years ago and never was reopened. Jack, you and I were there. Oh, heck yeah, that was an amazing museum. I loved it. Loved it. Unfortunately, and it really pains me to say this. New York went through a renaissance in the late 90s and the 2000s, 2001 through like let's say nine. And then it's been in a state of decline since where I honestly don't recommend people come and visit unless you want to have the constant smell of cannabis in the air, step over homeless people's urine and feces, have your rent a car broken into. And I used to love how many times, Jack, have we been to Manhattan for dinner or museums or the m the must-do things, you know, everyone goes up in the Empire State Building and Statue of Liberty, the Intrepid Museum is great. Yep. Stop by a police station, you know, tell them who you are, get the nickel tour. Yeah. What about uh 73rd and third? Huh? What's refresh my memory on it? 73rd and third? Isn't that Tony's? No. No, what oh my gosh. What what's uh that Tony's moved a long time ago. They're in the 60s, they're in their 60s now. 63rd and third? Tony DiNopolis is what we're talking about. Uh I told Glenn asked me. Oh my god. Glenn asked me one time, let's go into the city for dinner. Uh, I'm gonna take you to my favorite Italian place. So I said, well, I'm okay, I'm all in. And we went to Tony Di's, and that was my first time there. And I've been there probably a dozen times since, and with friends and family, and and with Glenn and with Jess and Chris Lieberman and oh my gosh, it's uh it's wonderful. You know, there there's still so much wonderful things, so many wonderful things about New York City. It's just a shame that it's not what it was. I mean, we would be walking around there at you know, getting on the subways at 0100 and didn't blink an eye. I wouldn't do that now with a tack vest and a rifle. I mean, it's like, no, thank you. No, thank you. You know, yeah, it's sad to hear because when we visited, it was very pleasant. We had a good experience. It was wonderful for a while there, wasn't it, Glenn? When I when I was on the board of directors of ALEA, I was the Northeast director, and guys on the board would always ask me, We're thinking of coming to New York, but we're a little hesitant. And this was again the late 90s and the early 2000s, like don't. It's wonderful, it's safe, it's clean, you'll have a great time. There's a million places to go and see, and you will have a wonderful time. And there's still a lot to see, but there's there's just a lot of stuff that they tolerate that shouldn't be tolerated that you have to encounter. And you know, it's one thing if if the three of us went out with three cops, probably armed, and taking your family along with you is a whole nother story. Yeah. It's different. It's different. I'm so thankful that I got to go there so often during those good times. Because as a teenager, in in the 70s, we I'd go there annually, take the Carl Bieber bus up with Tom Wester and his mom Helen. And Helen, Tom, and I would run the city from Odark 30. We'd get there and we wouldn't leave till after midnight from Port Authority and get it back on the bus. And it was a little shaky around Port Authority. Oh, the 70s and 80s. The 70s and 80s, when I was a street cop in the 80s, it was the time to be a street cop. It was it was the city was out of control. And we we all believed the nonsense that there was no way of controlling it. Yes. And it is nonsense. In the 90s, the complete paradigm shifted to zero tolerance, strict accountability. And I I witnessed, I watched that city get cleaned up between from 93 to say 2000, where like you didn't think they could drive the crime numbers any lower. Yeah. Yep. Yep. It's it was amazing. What an amazing turnaround. It can be done. You just need the will to do it. And it was a there was a lot of resistance from the rank and file because it meant you got to show results and you've got to be accountable. Whether you're a cop on a beat or commanding officer of a precinct, you're going to be held to account for your area of influence. Yeah. And they got they they got it from zero tolerance with crime and strict accountability for management. They started CompStat. I know, I know Bratton brought that to LAPD. He did. That's a crucible. Yeah. And done right, it drives crime down. You know, when you're a commanding officer and you're standing up there and all of a sudden you get called in the hot seat and they ask you, how's Mrs. McGillicuddy doing? And you'll have you have no idea what who Miss McGillicuddy is. You better know. Let me remind you, that was the woman robbed on 34th Street and 8th Avenue two weeks ago. What are you doing to fix this? Yeah. Yeah. Accountability is all that's that's everything. It's everything. Uh let's let's shuttle back. That was great to talk about that. I'm glad we did because New York City is a special place. I hope I'm hoping and praying that someday it'll get back to where you can go there and walk around at one in the morning and go out to eat and have a great time and not have to worry about the nonsense. But let's go back to aviation. Uh what's tell us something unique. Uh, you you know about law enforcement aviation. You've been around the world teaching, instructing. Uh, you were with ALEA, now ASPA. Uh tell us what's unique about NYPD aviation. Thank you to our sponsor, Precision Aviation Group. 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New York City, just to do the do its due to its geography, it's surrounded by water, and a lot of things end up in the water that don't belong there. People, cars, airplanes, helicopters. And we found starting in the early 1980s through today, having not rescue swimmers that are surface bound, full-suited scuba divers in dry suits with full face masks on the helicopter 24-7 with a five-minute launch window with very loose launch restrictions. The Coast Guard Air Station used to be based at Floyd Benefield. And we used to marvel at sometimes how multi-layered their response protocols were, where they needed a lot of ranks and higher headquarters to approve a launch, where a New York City police rescue helicopter with two scuba divers will launch on a 9-11 call. Or any rookie cop saying, so-and-so just jumped in the river and she's going under for the third time. Being able to get there most of the time within on scene within 10 minutes of a launch order, in the air within five, on the scene within 10, the outside 12, 14 minutes, with two scuba divers means the difference between rescue and recovery time and time again. And it's something that the unit prides itself in, and they're very unique in it. Matter of fact, you know, it was very sad case. In September of 93, a Coast Guard helicopter crashed just south of Floyd Bennett Field. They were doing a platform landing on a light tower and had dynamic rollover. Their own backup dolphins had surface swimmers, couldn't get their own people out of their submerged helicopter. NYPD divers had to go get them out. The NYPD scuba team are one of the most experienced, professional, phenomenal law enforcement scuba teams in the world. And had they they they have their own launch, they have several boats, but they task two two two divers per shift to the aviation unit where they can never be, you know, more than arm's length away from that helicopter. Yeah. And tell us uh this this stat may change, but I know that you told me this at one point. Tell our our listeners how often do they actually, on average, deploy those divers. I remember a stat from a while back. Let's see uh what it is. This is totally just an educated remembrance or guess. Yes, that's you you would launch on a you would launch on a quote unquote rescue one or two times per shift, so eight and a half hour period. You would put divers in the water once or twice a week. Yep. In season. That's the stat I remember. Yep. Because again, some weeks are slower. The dead of winter doesn't happen as much. Yeah. But you you would put divers in the water pretty regularly. And the reason the reason I remember that, you'll you'll remember this too, is that I was tasked with looking at putting divers in the water off the skids of an A star for a training day. And and the safety officer and I went, This is insane. Why why are we doing this? It's a photo op. There's no mission, there's no nuts. Long story short, my first phone call was to you. And I said, Hey, Glenn, Supervision wants us to put divers in the water off the skids of an A star. And your response was something to the effect of, Are you frickin' crazy? And we went, it went on from there. And I knew we were crazy, but you confirmed it. And your stat at that time was putting divers in the water, you know, weekly, a couple times a week sometimes. We're putting divers in the water in a Bell 412, yeah, twin engine, training, everybody's got heat bottles, all this stuff. We were just kind of doing it half-assed, and and we had no mission. And that was why I called you first. I also called the Coast Guard and others, but you were my first call, and I remember that stat and just going, wow, that's amazing. Uh, NYPD is so multi-mission, like you wouldn't think there'd be brush fires in the city of New York. Like it's something that doesn't come to the fore. They fly Bambi bucket missions. And and I'll be the first one to tell you because it happens so infrequently, there are some of the hairiest missions hauling water around. On the West Coast, LA County fire, LA City fire, they can do fires with their eyes closed. Yep. Those are one of those ones where when I was when I was in charge, if I was a platoon commander, I'm like, okay, we're gonna go put this brush fire out, but let's take a deep breath and let's take a step back and let's review our procedures and uh emergency procedures. But almost anything you can do with a law enforcement aircraft, NYPD, does. Yeah. The downside of that is places like LAPD, San Diego PD, who specialize in chasing bad guys, I will admit it, are better to what degree we can argue, but are better at chasing bad guys. Sure. Suspects in the rear yards, just bailed out of out of a out of a pursuit. Now they're gone to ground, they're hiding. They're better at suspect tactics, aircraft placement, perimeters, interacting with the units who do doing the searches. Because NYPD is almost too diverse. Yes. And and and something we can argue, there is no right answer to this, so I'm not saying my answer is right, but NYPD, and I believe San Diego is like this, they fly two pilot crews where it's not a pilot and a TFO. It's a pilot and a non-flying pilot. I find when you have a TFO, that person's bread and butter and world is catching bad guys. Yes. They are experts with the camera. They're experts with the mapping program. They're experts with the lights. They're not a pilot who happens not to be flying this flight, that's right. Dabbling in all of the technology. The modern law enforcement TFO is the most demanding job in law enforcement in the world. I don't care what continent you're on, what state you're in, what city you're in, and requires an ultra specialist to execute it properly. Where I find places that do two pilots, you have slightly, slightly, slightly more safety in the case of a pilot incapacitation event or somebody takes a Canadian goose through the window into the face. Yeah. Granted, having someone who can fly the helicopter really well in the left seat is gives you a little bump on safety. But I I personally, and this is just me speaking, I don't think it's worth the deficits you get and the ability to chase and catch bad guys. Yeah. I agree with all that. Absolutely. John, your thoughts on that? That TFO becomes a, like you said, a specialist, and that's that TFO's sole job is doing that. Uh in Ontario, we split our duties half and half when we were a dual pilot crew, and we weren't always a dual pilot crew, but you would notice uh what we would do is do a week on as a TFO and a week off, and that week on you're great. And then that week off, you come back after the week off and it's all rusty again. It's a perishable skill. Um so I I do agree that the TFOs that that's all they do are better at finding bad guys and and and good guys than the the opposite. Um but some of the opposites, some of the other things that that it affords you when you do have dual pilots is staffing schedules make uh are easier than to to fill, and there's you know the safety uh aspects of it that I like. Uh there's the pros and cons with with both for sure. But when it comes to purely catching bad guys, I agree that the TFO that specializes is just is just a TFO. Well, I shouldn't say just a TFO, but that's the TFO's primary duty. Uh they're better. Yeah. Like I f I flew searches and pursuits and NYPD, where I had pilots next to me who were really, really good at catching bad guys. And I had some people who would just plane out simple non flying pilots, fumbling through the air, not not turning the camera on, playing around with the nights and The the the the the the big flashing warning sign is I need you to hover so I can get a good look in the yard. I said, Well, not hovering over this neighborhood, I have nowhere to put this helicopter. If you can't keep up with the camera, you gotta get better with the camera. Yeah, yeah. Like I used to my mantra was like, don't hover. Over in New York City, there's very few places to put an aircraft. And you know, all you gotta do is a couple of hoagie autos from 500 feet to to make you a true believer. And the one time I almost got really hurt in a helicopter was doing an out-of-ground event hover with a partial engine failure. And if I wasn't a true believer before that, I was a true believer after that. Yes. That's right. That's exactly right. Uh it's one thing if you're flying around and it's prairie and you're coming to a hover and you got a lot, you got the whole whole area to go to, but urban area, and especially New York City. Oh my gosh. Um, yeah, you gotta balance that for sure. Something that fascinates me, not just with New York, but but LA as well, is is operating within the confines of the downtown area with all the high-rises. Talk about your experience doing that. And I know that the angles and all those things are are obvious issues, but talk about how you mitigated some of those issues and and what it was like to work in that environment. Well the the the truth is lower Manhattan, let's talk Central Park South. Where you see the archetypical skyline, that is nearly impossible to police from the air. That's a given. North of Central Park, your buildings five, six-story tenements, walk-ups, they have rear yards, you can get down and dirty and do police work. It used to be prior to me getting to the aviation unit in '93, that's when the paradigm shifted to we're going out and we're going to go on patrol and we're going to chase bad guys. Prior to that, it was very way overly specialized. Don't call us, we'll call you. I used to say I had more of a chance in the 7-5 precinct seeing the UFO over the precinct than a police helicopter. Because they were like locked away in the hangar, everybody had their agenda. They didn't view their primary mission to back up cops in the street. And thank God, the commanding officer who was there that brought me in as a new sergeant, he took me on the side and says, You've got an unenviable job. You've got to turn a quasi-flying club into aggressive manhunters. And I'm like, What do you mean? I I had this rosy picture painted. And then it broke down over the years into a 2060-20 dynamic where 20% of the guys and gals were excellent and really got buy-in. And they they want they were like, you're taking the reins off, we can go out and chase bad guys and get down and dirty in the busy precincts. And you have 60% of the people who are like, this is the new game plan, we're going to follow it. Then you had the other 20% who were my oxygen thieves. Yeah. That if I had my way, we would have just attrited them every year. But once you pay to train somebody up and get them their pilot ratings and get them in factory school, they know it's very difficult to jettison that that dream to go with them. But it was always 2060-20. And the the old school was their their spring-loaded answer was, oh, this is New York, this is in LA. We're all built up. We can't chase bad guys. I go, that's true for Manhattan South. Right. Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, the Bronx, Upper Manhattan. You absolutely can employ law enforcement aviation assets and get positive results. You just need to be creative and you need to work with the ground units more. You bring on board the technology that exists today and the power of the camera systems like the M2, which we demoed uh just in Atlanta. That allows you a greater standoff distance and some options with angles that didn't exist before. Uh so be curious to get uh your insight on on that as it pertains to technology. It's it it's well, we we've in our in our law enforcement careers, I'll probably speak for for Jack and myself, we progress from a uh standpoint where we would jet range is equipped with a night sun and a map book to phenomenal camera systems, and the challenge is getting the people trained up to the level of the equipment's capable of producing for you. That so many people I know are just scratching the surface of what their equipment can do. And they they they some, I'm not talking all, some lack the professionalism of really wanting to drill down. Like classes that Jack has taught, that Kevin Means has taught, that Nick Minx has taught, tactical flying, that where you really drill down into altitudes, radius of orbits, airspeeds, where guys are really trying to perfect their craft. I wish more people would immerse themselves into that because they would see immediate results on bad bad guys going to jail. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. So so many people are just dipping their toe in the water or just show me enough, you know, where if the guy's running around with an orange jumpsuit with a magnesium flare strapped to his ass, they might be able to find them with a flare. Maybe. I think uh Nick Minks, you know, is has done a phenomenal job of bringing his training online. You know, I think before a lot of that information was only accessible if you're at an apps conivan or or some training environment in person, whereas now Nick has made it accessible to anybody who wants to show up to his class virtually, you know, which is which is a great tool. And then these conversations like we're having on the Hanger Z podcast, we're no longer siloed into our individual agency. Now we're we're one community where like, hey, how do I get this training? And uh Glenn just talked about Nick Minx. You know, so I think the availability of of training, uh the availability of of technology is so prevalent today. Yeah, you've got to have a lot of excuses lined up in your pocket to say, oh, I don't, I don't know, I didn't know any better. You know, there is no excuse anymore, John. You're right. There is no excuse. You you can you can get outstanding training online on this topic at that with tactical flying. You just can. And it's you don't have to leave your your hangar or your office or your living room. You know, it's there. Thank you to our sponsor, Robinson Helicopter Company. For over 50 years, Robinson has been a cornerstone in vertical lift, dedicated to making helicopter missions accessible, reliable, and safe. By maintaining a vertically integrated manufacturing base in the United States, Robinson delivers practical, high-performance tools for difficult missions. Whether it's the legendary R-22, where so many pilots began their journey, the versatile R-44 and R-66, or now the new 10-seat R-88, Robinson continues to set the standard. Now through Robinson Unmanned, the company is expanding into autonomous and remotely piloted aircraft for civil, commercial, and defense sectors. Robinson Helicopter Company, committed to efficiency, reliability, and supporting your mission, whatever it may be. Visit RobinsonHelly.com or RobinsonUnmanned.com to learn more. Climb higher. Another roadblock that unfortunately reared its ugly head a lot of times in NYPD, both an emergency service unit and in aviation, is you get this we know it all mentality. Like, what am I going to go to the FM for? We're the NYPD Aviation Unit. We're the NYPD emergency service unit. We've been there, we've done that. We do more of these in a year than they're going to do in 10 years. And I'm like, you can learn something from the smallest agency with the smallest fleet of aircraft. I am a huge believer in never reinvent the wheel. Benchmark, find someone who's doing it right and just copy what they're doing and cut and paste it into your eye. You might might need a little bit of your paint and your logo put on it, but never get so arrogant that we we know it all. You know, we were looking to go outside for some outside hoist training for RSE rescue. And like, we do more of these in a year than like, but we might be overlooking something. There might be one little takeaway that we can get. When I first came to the aviation unit and I got the marching orders from Bill Wilkins, the captain, to get on patrol and start chasing bad guys, I said, one little stat bugs me. And through the ALEA, you get it's one of the most valuable resources of ALEA APSA now is benchmarking and best practices and looking at how other the other guy's doing things. And I I'll never forget, where I looked at the stats for the Columbus, Ohio Police Department had a very, very progressive, very, very well-funded police air support unit. They were making more arrests directly aided by the helicopters than the NYPD was. I'm like, ladies and gentlemen, something's wrong here. We are the biggest, busiest city in the world. And in Ohio, they're catching more bad guys with their flair. Yep. Something's got to change. That is exactly right. And going going to going to Apps or ALA events, and now Pavcon is so important to network and benchmark and how do you do it? How do you do it? Everyone has a little bit different take. Not not everyone's always right, not everyone's always wrong. Sometimes you get the light bulb moment, they're like, you know, we've always been doing it this way. And and I always ask people, justify why. When anyone says, we've always done it that way. Okay, tell me why. Tell me the benefit. Well, we always have. That's that's the red flag. Yeah, it is a flag. Yeah. Well, the last point I'll dig in on there is to piggyback on what you just talked about, uh, Echo, when it comes to operating with our own silos, uh, not only do that we do that with our own agencies, but we do that as a segment too. We're we're all we're used to looking at other law enforcement agencies and being, okay, how do you do this? And I could take some of that. What we aren't good at is looking at the HIMS industry, pure search and rescue organizations, um, other uh segments of the helicopter industry, and and kind of looking at their practices and saying, okay, how does that fit into what we're doing? Because they're doing a lot of things that are unique to their specific segment that benefit or could benefit us from a safety standpoint. So uh going to Echo and and learning from those folks has been really interesting and eye-opening for me. I think the more that as a helicopter community, not just as a public safety aviation community, we can learn from each other, the better. So just a piggyback on your thought there, Glenn. Uh absolutely good. And again, one of the downsides of NYPD, if you want to call it that, is the multi-mission. You we do so many things, including Medivac. You know, Air Sea Rescue, regular vanilla Medevacs, patrol, pursuits, Bambi buckets, uh huntsman flights for for presidential visits, dignitary protection, VIP transport, and all of those missions have places that just do that. That maybe if someone just does Medevac, we can look at what they're doing and blend that into our Medevac protocols. Or we are the only unit with scuba divers, which is a big, big plus, but Coast Guard does a lot of things really, really well. Hoisting from vessels. One of the most challenging things I've ever done was night hoists off of vessels. We did tremendous amount of training because we used to be based at the same airfield as the Coast Guard. Benchmarking and networking. You can't do enough of it. That's the huge value of ALEA, APSA, PAVCON, all of these I never go to one of these conferences where I don't come home knowing some knowledge, procedure, or technique that I didn't know when I went. Yep. Yep. Every time. Every single conference. Uh that's so true. So last thing on your aviation time at NYPD. I'm gonna give you another shot at an impactful incident. Uh outside of the September 11th uh that we talked about. Most impactful incident for you at aviation. Again, there's so many hundreds of missions that they all get lost. A couple stand out in my mind. One's a patrol-related mission, one's an air sea rescue related mission. Go for it. We had uh an interesting opportunity, but it was also the opportunity to do things wrong. The NYPD was co-located at Floyd Bennett Field with Coast Guard Air Station Brooklyn. In 1998, they moved to Atlantic City. They weren't right in our backyard anymore. Because it used to be if you had a water rescue and the bays, the harbors, the rivers, the inlets within a couple of miles of shore, we would take that. Anything longer range, Coast Guard was better suited and you had to train for it, they would take that. With them leaving in 98, even though they were legally responsible to maintain the same mission, we felt we had a moral responsibility to provide rescue services in that space. So we got probably the most advanced helicopter NYPD ever had was a 412 SAR version with full four-axis auto hover, auto takeoff, auto everything to do offshore night work. And this was a huge training challenge. Because even though we weren't legally responsible, when you hear a Mayday coming over Marine Channel 16 and you know it's 20 miles out your window off your flight line, you have to temper the urge to rush out there and do the job with what we don't know yet about doing real long-range search and rescue. So it was a crawl walk run. And to be brutally honest, like with the 2060-20 dynamic, not everybody's your star. And I said earlier with the high-rise fire rescues, unless you're unless you're capable of performing a mission at two o'clock in the morning on a Sunday in the rain with your most medium crew, you're not really capable of performing that mission unless you can pick and choose. You know, you don't have the choice when the phone rings to pick and choose. And one night, the Coast Guard Air Station uh Atlantic City calls up and they get the the cop on the on the desk. And I'm I'm just I'm in my office doing paperwork. And like, who is this? The Coast Guard. What do you want us to do? Oh, we don't do that. And my ears pricked up. And I go out and I said, Who is that? Who you who you who are you talking to? It's the Coast Guard. They want us to hoist somebody off a boat at night. You know, that's really not, you know, our mission. You know, we're really not. I said, Well, let's gather some more information. And the person answering the phone was the airsea rescue pilot that night. And I talked to the officer on the phone, uh, the Coast Guard officer on the phone, and it was pretty vanilla, was a fishing boat where uh uh a mast swung and and the guy's eye was a volse. His eye was literally hanging out on his cheek, and he needed to be medevaced right away. And they had a previous rescue they were on and some maintenance issues, and they weren't able to respond. So there was a cop named Glenn Hoffman and a phenomenal crew chief named Fern Almedia were in the room. I said, What do you think about this? The weather was good. It was not inclement weather, it was a clear night, and it was a little cold out. I said, Okay, we'll do en route decision points. We'll launch on this mission, we'll see if we can get the boat to 5, 15 degrees off the wind so we can get a good hoist. We'll evaluate using the technology and the auto hover. If not, we'll hand hover. And at any point along the way, everyone has the veto that we can call this off. We're not legally responsible for this, but we're willing to take a shot. And Fern, I believe the other crew chief was Mario. We took emergency service with us as medics, and Glenn Hoffman is a co-pilot. We went out, crawl walked, run it, did one of our first night hoists off a vessel underway. And that was it worked out well, got the guy to the hospital. I think they they saved his eye. But that was a memorable case because it brought together all of the not rushing into a mission, but evaluating it, having decision points along the way, everyone very clearly briefed on a veto. That that stands out of a you know, I've flown a lot of rescues and chased a lot of bad guys, but that that one always comes to mind because that was very early on in the program. Doing that same rescue three, four years later was a much not big deal. But at that early point in the what I would call longer range AirC rescue was a milestone for me. That's that's good. From patrol from patrol mission, one that sticks in mind was it was Christmas Day 1993. I was still a you know a student pilot in helicopters. I didn't have my ratings yet. We were out on patrol. Highway patrol goes in pursuit of a vehicle, three bail, runs into very, very high weeds that borders a golf course. And the three of them, rather than running around, there's a solo highway officer all alone, they turn around and start wailing on this cop. And he's down on the ground. And I always preach altitude, radius of orbit. I'm like, land the helicopter. I got to get on the ground right now. And the the cop I was like, what do you want, Sarge? I says, land the helicopter. I got out, helped take these guys, put them in custody, got them all cuffed up, wait for backup units to come, got them all cuffed up, got in the helicopter and flew away. It was it was like the most movie thing I've ever done. I wouldn't recommend it if he wasn't alone. I there's no way I would have done it. But that just sticks out in my memory as one of the more zany things that happened. Oh, that's good. So in the time we have left, which is significant, we're gonna go, we're gonna go longer here. We really want to get into an important topic, and and that's inadvertent IMC. This is something that you uh instruct on. Um, you've you've instructed on it for quite a long time. Walk us through to start, tell us about why this topic became so important to you, and then we'll we'll we'll dive into this uh in a couple different angles. But why why is Intert and IMC so important to Glenn Daly? Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Hanger Z podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe to hear more stories that promote the personnel and equipment behind the missions in public safety aviation. Lastly, stand by for a message after a word from our sponsors. Cheers. Thank you to our sponsor, Precision Aviation Group. Mission critical operators and fleet managers rely on Precision Aviation Group as a worldwide leading rotor and fixed-wing MRO provider. PAG provides tip-to-tail solutions in four MRO segments. Avionics, components, engines, and manufacturing DER services. A single point of contact gives you access to over 150 million in inventory globally 24-7. Just call 800-537-2778. Precision Aviation Group. Other self-parts, we sell support. Thank you to our sponsor, Shot Over. Shot Over Systems is the leading developer and manufacturer of high-performance gyro stabilized cameras with advanced real-time AR mapping and mission management, all backed by unparalleled custom training and support. Now offering the M2 Multi-Sensor System, sole six-access EOIR platform with 4K Ultra HD color and infrared technology. Ideal for law enforcement and defense. Offered with real-time AR overlays to quickly identify streets, weather, and traffic, automated license plate recognition, 24-megapixel digital photographs, and automated steering and tracking. Thank you to our sponsor, Robinson Helicopter Company. For over 50 years, Robinson has been a cornerstone in vertical lift, dedicated to making helicopter missions accessible, reliable, and safe. By maintaining a vertically integrated manufacturing base in the United States, Robinson delivers practical, high-performance tools for difficult missions. Whether it's the legendary R-22, where so many pilots began their journey, the versatile R-44 and R-66, or now the new 10-seat R-88, Robinson continues to set the standard. Now through Robinson Unmanned, the company is expanding into autonomous and remotely piloted aircraft for civil, commercial, and defense sectors. Robinson Helicopter Company, committed to efficiency, reliability, and supporting your mission, whatever it may be. Visit RobinsonHelly.com or RobinsonUnmanned.com to learn more. Climb higher. We hope you enjoyed this episode with Lieutenant Glenn Daly. Learning about the behind-the-scenes activity on September 11th with NYPD Aviation was captivating. That day required outside the box thinking, and there was no playbook that had all the answers. Glenn has shared his knowledge and experience with law enforcement aviators around the world. His passion for teaching on topics like inadvertent IMC and distracted flying is saving lives. All three of these episodes should be shared with every pilot you know. Thank you for joining us, Glenn. You continue to make a positive difference in the aviation community. John and I are continuously grateful for being able to bring these conversations to all of you. Thank you for listening, and we would appreciate you sharing, clicking that like button, and subscribing and giving us a positive review. These little actions make a big difference to keep this podcast growing. Thanks again to all of our sponsors for the support. Stay safe, and we'll catch you the next time on the Hangers E podcast.