The Hangar Z Podcast
A podcast where we explore the personnel and equipment behind the missions in Public Safety Aviation.
The Hangar Z Podcast
Nicholas Ianiero - APSCON 2026 - Maintainer of the Year | Ep 379
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Welcome to the Hangar Z Podcast, brought to you by HeliCASTS and in partnership with Valor Plus.
For this episode of Hangar Z, recorded live at APSCON 2026 in Fort Lauderdale, hosts Jon Gray and Jack Schonely sit down with Nicolas Ianiero, aircraft maintenance engineer with Canadian Helicopters supporting the York Regional Police Air Support Unit and the recipient of the 2026 APSA Technician of the Year Award.
Nicolas shares the journey that took him from aspiring pilot to licensed aircraft maintenance engineer, including his introduction to helicopter maintenance and the experiences that shaped his career. Along the way, he reflects on the value of mentorship, continuous learning, and embracing opportunities that weren't part of the original plan.
The conversation also explores the unique responsibility of supporting public safety aviation. Whether responding to missing persons, critical incidents, or life-saving missions, Nicolas explains how maintainers play a vital role long before an aircraft ever leaves the hangar. It's a perspective that highlights the dedication, professionalism, and quiet commitment behind every successful mission.
Congratulations to Nicolas on being recognized as the 2026 APSA Technician of the Year and thank you for sharing your story with the Vertical Plus community.
Thank you to our sponsors CENTUM, Onboard Systems Hoist & Winch and Quantum Helicopters.
The Hanger Z podcast welcomes Nicholas Ionero. What drives me as a tech when I work in those environments is knowing the kind of work they're doing, right? And respecting the kind of work they're doing. And I feel like sometimes that adds some weight to your shoulders when they have an issue, and then knowing that, okay, well, now they can't fly. Now they can't go save maybe that kid that's gone missing. You know, it kind of pushes you more to want to help them, right? So if you think about that, then after you're you're really constantly working, constantly thinking about things to make their life better, to make the aircraft better, there's really no off-switch, really, right?
SPEAKER_02This episode is recorded on location at APSCon 2026 in Fort Lauderdale. Where Jack Chanley and I had the opportunity to sit down with Nicholas Ionero, aircraft maintenance engineer with Canadian Helicopters, supporting the York Regional Police Air Support Unit, and the recipient of the 2026 APSA Tactical Specialist Award. Thank you to our sponsors Onboard Systems Hoist and Lynch, Quantum Helicopters, and Sentum.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Hanger Z Podcast, brought to you by Vertical Helicast. The Hanger Z Podcast is the first and only podcast dedicated to promoting and exploring the personnel and equipment behind the missions in public safety aviation.
SPEAKER_00So Southbound's getting to a stop down by here. Looks like you're getting ready to bail. Heads up guys bailing. Okay, the guy is running through the house, jumping the fence, through the shotgun, through something out. Grabbing the shotgun. Stay there. Hold your position.
SPEAKER_02Welcome to the Vertical Emerald Podcast, coming to you from where are we?
SPEAKER_05AppSCON 2026.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, pretty cool to be here. Uh love AppScon. It's it's the one event that I enjoy going to. It brings all the public safety aviation community together. And uh this is a unique conversation, uh, one that we had last year together, and we get to do again. So uh with me is Jack Shanley, the commander. Welcome. Thank you, John. Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_05Uh back for another AppSCON. It's always fun. Absolutely. See a lot of friends, meet a lot of new people that we haven't met in the industry that are being recognized for great work, and that's always fun.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, this this uh recording is really cool. We're recognizing you for your work this year. You were nominated for the Technician of the Year Award for APSA and you earned that award. I always hate the word award. I think we talk about it all the time. It's something you earned. Uh it's a recognition that is is earned through hard work, sacrifice, dedication, all those things. But congratulations. That's that's really cool. Thank you. Thank you very much. Do you know? Are you the first Canadian recipient of this award?
SPEAKER_03I don't think so. I think there's been more in the past. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, it's really cool. You know, we're looking international now, not just you know, within the borders of the US, because I think traditionally it's been a prominently US-based uh organization, right?
SPEAKER_05Kind of. Uh it's always been invited to be international. Can Canadians have participated for a long time. I mean, they were they've been part of the they were part of Ailia and now APSA for many years. Many instructors were from Canada, including from York. So that's I don't think it's a surprise that that there were others, but uh I think Wade yesterday for his award for the um for that particular recognition, he might be the first. But uh there's been a lot of Canadians involved in this over the years.
SPEAKER_02You're you're not the first representative from your agency to be on the podcast, uh at least on the Hanger Z podcast. We've had uh two separate interviews uh with folks from from your department. So uh York Regional Police has been well represented on the Hanger Z podcast and the vertical helicast platform.
SPEAKER_05Well, Bobby Big Time, yeah, he he draws a lot of attention and publicity, and that was one of the funniest moments we've ever had on with the two of us where he where he like he told us the story and the Bobby Big Time, and we did it was like the world. He's a character. He is great.
SPEAKER_03He's a great TFO, amazing TFO, yeah.
SPEAKER_05The incident that he talked about was unbelievable. It's one of the best TFO-ing incidents I've ever heard. And he was so humble about it and funny about it, and the Bobby Big Time just that just was like the icing on the cake. Yeah, yeah, he's a great case. We want to meet him so bad because that was remote. You know, yeah. And we will. We will.
SPEAKER_02So if you're listening, it's this is an episode of the Hanger Z podcast we're referring to. I think the title is inside York Regional Police, and uh got to talk to them, and and the case he's talking about is an was an award-winning case. It was so tune in and listen to that. It's it's it's really good. But if you could just introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about how you got into your current position and and what you're doing.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Well, thanks for having me on. It's it's great, great, got great honor. Um, yeah, so I'm Nicholas Idero. Um, I'm here. I got an award for uh the Technical Specialist of the Year 2026. Um I've been uh aircraft maintenance engineer for almost 20 years now. Wow, licensed for 15. You know, as a as a young kid, I always wanted to be a pilot, right? That's something that just the first time I stepped on an airplane when I was a young, maybe five, six years old, right? My parents would tell me all the time, like, you love being on an airplane, right? Just looking out the window, wanting to see what the pilots were doing. And then after growing up, constantly asking them, Hey, can I go to the airport? I want to see the planes fly. I want to go flying. So that passion, you know, it grew as I grew older. And um, when I got out of high school, um, I knew I wanted to be a pilot. So the problem was that it was around 9-11, right? So the industry was really down. I started some training in my local flight school, and then after uh after some time flying around, and then I built about 20-30 hours, and then after when I was looking at the scope of work, right, I it it didn't look like it was there for at least a couple years. Um, so then I love working on cars, right? I love working on you know with my hands and and wrenching and all that stuff. So I thought, hey, you know what, what's the next best thing to do working with aircraft? Well, why don't we fix them, right? Let's try look into something like that. And uh so then that's what I decided to to switch paths around that time. And then after I I went to college, um Centennial College, which is in Toronto, uh it's an aviation school, and they uh you know they focus on working on uh aircraft and uh power like different power plants, and either it's fixed wing, rotary wing, whatever. But then I still wanted to push for you know being working on big big airplanes, right? Big airplanes, big engines. But again, I I I finished college. Looking for work was hard because the industry was down, and I was always I was always wanting to work on the big planes, so working for airliners, but there was just no work there. So again, I had to switch paths and start looking for smaller AMOs, smaller repair shops. And then I finally got a break with um an overhaul shop that hired me, and um I started working there for a bit, and then I started noticing the different vendors that they were working with, right? And different companies, and then I saw like I saw Helelinx and a little little helicopter company, and I'm like these names were showing up a lot, right? I'm like, are these like big companies? And they're like, no, this these guys are just really busy. Okay. I looked them up, sure enough, they're hiring apprentices and that. I I I'll tell you, I I would never thought I'd be working on helicopters. It just it never crossed my mind. I was yeah, I was like, ah, whatever, helicopters. So I just I applied because I wanted to get my hand, I want to get my foot in the door, start working, start wrenching on actual aircraft. They called me, they hired me, and and and then I started working as an apprentice on helicopters with Helelinks. And there I spent five years, four years, I think, four years, until I got my license. It takes about in Canada, it takes roughly about three years to really get your logbooks all filled out and tasks all uh done and completed. And then after you, if you had if you did your college, you did your post-secondary uh education, you got your diploma and all that, then all you got to do is your cars exam, which is a Canadian aviation regulations exam, right? So they know that you know what um you know what you're signing off and what the legal legalities of it and all that is. So once you write that test, then you become a licensed engineer, right? But then in Canada, though, I think it's a little bit different in the US. But in Canada, if you're gonna work on a turbine-powered helicopter or any sort of transport category aircraft, you need to do a course for it. So now it's up to the employer to send you off and and these things aren't cheap, right? So then that's where Helix wasn't it, they're not a big enough company, they have their guys that are licensed, they don't need too many people that are licensed, and then after I, you know, came to a point where, well, I think I've reached the max uh capability I have here, right? I need to look elsewhere. And then after I started with National, and National was the first company that gave me the opportunity to work on a police aircraft, because they had contracts with York, they had contracts with the Durham Regional Police, um, then they had their own uh training facility, they had their aircrafts they used for for just uh uh uh you know tourist stuff, right? Um and a wide range of fleets too, private aircraft. So we were working on Rob Robinson's Bell's Um Airbus products, um so you get your hands on everything, which was pretty cool. So then after I was actually signing off aircraft, right? Once the company sends you out on these courses and you're and you're certified, then after you become ACA, right, and now you're you're capable of signing off aircraft. And um so then I spent another five years there, and then after I switched over to Canadian Helicopters, which is my current company, and um and that happened when with York switching over to a different contractor, and then I just I kind of jumped jump ship there, right? And with Canadian yeah, it's the biggest helicopter company in Canada. Oh and um yeah, great company, they do everything, everything from you know, just uh well utility support, gas, oil, hydro. Um they have a lot of sister companies too, uh Napa Valley, um Heli Welders, Top Flight, they're known for world-class training, helicopter training. They're involved with the government with uh North Warning Systems, right? Up in the north. We got police, police services, EMS services. Uh they're they're in everything. They're in everything. Big company, great people, good safety culture, and um, yeah, and that's where I am now.
SPEAKER_05So did you know all that when you decided to try and go with with uh Canadian helicopters? Did you or did you just learn that as you were there? I learned it as I was there. Yeah, yeah. So you made a good choice. Absolutely. Yeah, good.
SPEAKER_02Going back to Helelinks, talk about your experience there because I think that's an interesting place to start. You got exposure to a lot of stuff, major overhauls, you know, the installing the STC kits. Talk about what that was like for you as an apprentice at the time and what you learned. It was overwhelming.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was overwhelming. And you know what? It's because they were expecting a lot from the apprentices. Um when it's a small company like that, it's it's actually really good because you get you get put your hands on everything. And they're they expect a lot from you, right? They're not they're not leaning on each other for uh, you know, they don't have a lot of manpower, actually, I should say, where everyone's kind of working on their own thing. No, it's not. It's a small business, small company. So every man that's there or woman that's there needs to pull their workload, right? And they need to do everything. If they're not capable of doing everything, then you there's really no work for you. You gotta be able to do everything. So they hired, I would say, 10 apprentices, and I think by the end of the second year, we're down to like maybe three or four. Wow. Yeah. And I had a hard time, believe it or not, because first of all, I wasn't I wasn't like helicopters weren't really my passion understanding them, right? I wasn't really paying attention to that in school because it wasn't really my thing. Um, and then after when you get thrown in there, and then it's it's really hands-on, like everything is hands-on. It goes straight from aircraft pulls in, complete disassembly, right? Because what they're doing is they're bringing either the customer buys or the customer brings in their old aircraft that are due for 12 years and big inspections, and then they do these FX mods because that's the only time really where you can do a big upgrade like this is starting from the shell. So either the customer brings in their aircraft that was due for 12 years, or um Helilinx would find one and buy one from anywhere around the world, really, and bring it in, build it up, and sell it as a refurbished um uh FX aircraft, and then someone would buy it, right? Um, so you know they tell you like here's the aircraft, all right, let's start taking it all apart, everything. You're kind of like, okay. So you kind of just start going at it, but but you learn every little bit of the aircraft, and it's such a great, it's such a great thing to be exposed to when you're when you're learning, right? It's amazing, but you can screw up a lot of stuff for sure. And that's what I guess screw up a lot of stuff.
SPEAKER_02They got some extra parts here, is that normal? Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, if you don't if you don't take it apart properly, you can break things if you don't you know if you don't properly put together um all the uh the pieces you you took off and label them properly and all that, then after it could be an issue when they go to build it back up again, right? So you really have to understand the work and the and what they're asking and and try not to screw anything up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right? You talk about being intimidated when when you were new. When you think of all the systems on let's let's say uh uh Airbus H-125 or the equivalent at the time, yeah. What was the one system that you're like that I don't really want to get my hands in there because it's really scary? The flight controls.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, the flight controls, like with all those like weird rods on under underneath the aircraft, and then you're like, what the heck does all these things do? And when you're putting it all together, and then after everyone's you know, the maintenance man was asking for different dimension checks and making sure you got travel here and travel there, and then you hear about all these different accidents where the guys forgot to do this or didn't, you know, this wasn't put on right, and now the pilot doesn't have the full travel and all that, it kind of scares you a bit. And and you know, like you have to ask the right questions, right? And make sure that you know, if you need help, you ask questions and then someone comes out and gives you a hand or you have a second look. But yeah, I think that's what that's what kind of you know was intimidating, really.
SPEAKER_02I feel like a a lot of the responses I get to that question is avionics related, you know, dealing with with circuits and and this the sparky type stuff.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but that wasn't really for that for that job I had, we weren't really doing much much avionics stuff. See, but when you are removing stuff from the aircraft, if you cut a wire or if you broke one, then you'd hear it for sure. But we weren't really involved in the electrical aspect of it. If you're um in Canada, if you're if you're an electrical guy, you're considered an avionics tech, and that's your work, right? If you're a maintenance tech, then you're more involved in the mechanical and power plant stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like given where we are today in in public safety aviation in particular, and especially law enforcement aviation, with all the specialized mission equipment that exists on board an aircraft, I mean there there's no getting away from having some level of expertise and knowledge surrounding troubleshooting those systems. Absolutely. You know, and I that's what's so impressive to me for your guys' knowledge base. Not only do you have to be knowledgeable in the mechanical systems that exist, but also all the electronics and the mission equipment. Is a lot of the stuff we do in in law enforcement aviation, uh, we're utilizing some mission equipment that if it goes down, we're coming back because we're not effective. You know? Yeah. Talk about the added uh pressure that it that that surrounds your position with York, having to not just care for the mechanical systems, but also the mission equipment. Thinking our sponsor, Centum. Airborne operators know that every second counts. LifeSeeker is a powerful phone location tool, helping search and rescue teams and law enforcement agencies locate missing persons faster, even in the toughest conditions. With hundreds of successful missions every year and proven reliability, LifeSeeker is trusted by public safety agencies worldwide. Want to improve your operations? Learn more at Centom.com.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so you really need to when you get an aircraft, you really need to look into all the mission equipment that's involved, right? You need to kind of uh familiarize yourself with the systems and read up on them and and go through all the different um uh manuals, right? And and and kind of go through it all, right? And get your head wrapped around it because I mean there is a lot of stuff involved. But with that being said, I think that you learn more when things actually start breaking because that's when you start digging into stuff, and that's when you start working on stuff and you start learning how it actually works and how it's intertwined with different systems, right? Um, but you learn fast, right? Especially when you're working on an aircraft by yourself. You know, a pilot's gonna come to you and say, Hey, look, I got I got issues with my avionics, or this gauge is jumping, or this is wrong. And then, you know, like I always say, like, ask ask questions, right? Ask for help if you need help. Call the call the call the call the manufacturer, call the vendors, ask them what's going on, how can you help me here, right? And uh don't try to do anything that you don't know what you're doing, make it worse or break something. But I think it's important that when you have some downtime, just to read up on everything, read up on how the systems work, how they how they're intertwined in the different systems of the aircraft, and then yeah, you just gotta familiarize yourself, and then you're gonna learn by things breaking. Really, that's the only way you're gonna learn.
SPEAKER_02We we had a conversation with Mike Durant on the Hanger Z podcast, and he was talking about uh going to I think it was I was it Iraq, and his he was tasked with with going and destroying a Scud missile, and he they found the Scud and they tried to engage this the Scud with a missile and and they flipped the switch and no launch. And fly back to the base, and the the technician comes out and can't find can't duplicate the pro the problem, right? Oh man. And so Mike Durant's like, there I know there's a problem here, and he goes back out, same thing happens. And you come back, and the technician eventually finds out uh through some really advanced troubleshooting in my mind, to you guys, it's you know, probably whatever, but they found out that over the course of the flight, it took them what two hours or so to get on target. That system had heated up, and it only malfunctioned when it once it got to this you know exceedingly high temperature. And they couldn't duplicate it back at the hangar because it wasn't within those temperature ranges. So that technician, had he not thought beyond the box and and and put himself in that situation, like you talk about understanding the systems, he wouldn't have figured out what the problem was. And I guarantee that fixed uh an issue down the road for someone else, not Mike Durant. He talks about how upset he was, he didn't get a destroy scud missile, but that's the kind of stuff that I really admire in your guys' ability to to troubleshoot and and think outside the box, you know, with that stuff. Um when you think through some of those troubleshooting cases, is there something like that that you've had an opportunity to troubleshoot and identify that like uh I I didn't think about this initially, but this has ended up being the cause of whatever the advanced thing was.
SPEAKER_03Oh, there was so many, there's been so many. There's been so many. There was one actually um uh snag we had on uh on one of the old York helicopters, it was an H-120. The pilot kept telling me, when I go start it, I hear the starter and it's it starts to start, right? But then after the starter cuts out, and then it comes comes back in again while I'm trying to start the aircraft. And I'm like, What you're crazy. Like, how's that how's that happening? You you would get you wouldn't get a proper light off that he's like no, I'm telling you. But he kept telling me it's happen, it happened again, it happened again. And I was like, Okay, well let's let I had like there was times, and and it's it's funny because it happens so many times where they're like, just come out and sit with me, watch the start. They're like, oh wait, it didn't it didn't do it, of course. And then you look at him like, you see, and then he's like, Oh, it just happened. I'm like, okay, come on, and then I go sit with him again, and then he goes start, nothing happened. It's like every single time I was with him, nothing was happening. But when he was alone, he was telling me, I'm telling you, the starter cuts out mid mid mid-start, right? I'm like, uh so then finally I heard it, right? And I'm like, oh man, okay, I believe you. Like, yeah, that's that doesn't that that's not good. But to identify what was going on, I I tried everything, I couldn't figure it out. And then, like you said, you have to start thinking outside the box and go, What is causing this? Like, so you look at the collective and you look at how they're starting. It and it's a the pilot needs to engage a switch up and then turn the throttle. So I'm thinking if he's engaging the switch up and turning, like could there be like a um a dead spot in there, right? So then we started focusing on that, and sure enough, it was it was that right? There was a there's a button in there that because it's only turning such a small amount that it ended up there's a the switch end up getting like a bald spot in there and it doesn't make a proper connection, right? So sometimes it happened, sometimes it didn't, but it was a that was a hard snag to kind of figure it out. And you kind of really had because you you you'd pull your hair out, you'd think, okay, it's a starter, let's change the starter. Okay, it wasn't that. Okay, maybe it's got to be the switch. And and we did change this. There was another switch at the bottom of the collected that we changed. It didn't fix that either. And we were just spinning round and round trying to figure out what could be going on. And again, I call in people and like, oh, I don't know, that's strange, that's strange, right? Like no one can really understand what was going on. So you had to really dig deep and think outside, like what can be going on in here to fix it, right? So we when we when we caught it, we were like, Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02It must have been two in the morning. You you sat up in bed one night and you're like, ah, this is this is what it is.
SPEAKER_03And that's usually when I start thinking about things, right? Is when you're when you're trying to sleep and then you're you're you're you're you know you're you're running through all the different things you've done and you're trying to think of what can be going wrong, and then yeah, sometimes it just hits you, right? Or driving in in the morning. You're driving in the morning, you're running through all the different things that you should be testing, what you should be looking for, and then you're like, oh, did I try that? Okay. So yeah, I mean, like, you know, for techs, our job isn't done, right? When we punch out, it's like we're constantly thinking about what's going on tomorrow, how can we fix this, how can we fix that, right? And I I I find it I if someone told me that they can leave work and not think about it at home, I'd be I'd be amazed.
SPEAKER_02I think that's kind of both the blessing and the curse of of the job, right? It's a blessing in that it's challenging, and challenging jobs require you to do some mental gymnastics sometimes. And I think that that challenge is is fun for a lot of people, but it's also the curse is that you can't really get away from it. You know, you you can't get away from the phone calls, you can't get away from the ongoing troubleshooting. Talk about that a little bit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, especially with um policing, right? Law enforcement and that when you have a contract with law enforcement, it's it's a 24-hour seven-day a week gig, right? You can't man the whole the whole uh uh you know the the hours they work. It's just it's hard. It's it's also very costly. Um so you know, sometimes you're having to be on call, you're having to work um at home, they're you know, and and then it's just part of it's just part of the the job, really. Um but I think what drives me as a tech when I work in those environments is knowing the kind of work they're doing, right? And respecting the kind of work they're doing. And um I feel like sometimes that adds some weight to your shoulders when they have an issue, and then knowing that okay, well now they can't fly. And now they can't go save maybe that kid that's gone missing. Now they can't go save you know um that person that's uh suicidal that they need to find. You know, it kind of pushes you more to to to to want to help them, right? So if you think about that, then after you're you're really constantly working, constantly thinking about things to make um their life better, to make the aircraft better. Um there's really no off-switch, really, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think that's the other part I love specifically about public safety aviation is there's this idea that you're doing something bigger than yourself, you know. Talk about the missions that that you're involved in supporting. Bobby Big Time wouldn't exist if it weren't for you maintaining the aircraft. You know, that that story wouldn't have come to life. That robbery suspect wouldn't have been taken into custody. There's a whole bunch of things that wouldn't have happened if it weren't for you making the mission happen at the hangar, you know, and so I I see that point that you know there's a an added weight in your shoulders to ensure that thing happens. We had Dale Neumauer from Heli Ladder on on the podcast uh last year, and he talked about working in in the Hems air ambulance sector, uh a really, really, really touching story that he goes through. And if you haven't heard it, I really encourage the listeners to go and listen to it. It essentially talks about how aviation demands excellence. You know, if there's uh one mistake that that you make on the technician side, something as simple as not ordering a part that ends up being critical for the aircraft being returned to service, you don't have it. There's a mission that isn't completed, and there's someone's life exal, you know. Exactly. Uh so the the impact of inattention and and the lack of um the lack of excellence, I guess is the way to put it, uh there's costs associated with that beyond the the dollars and cents, you know, that a lot of traditional operators think of. Uh so the the public safety side, like you said, there's some some added uh Yeah, and especially planning.
SPEAKER_03I think planning is uh maintenance planning is a big big deal in our um in our uh our job, right? If you're with law enforcement or public safety and that, I think it's you want to make sure the aircraft isn't down for you know a big amount of time. So you're constantly planning ahead. And these guys aren't flying tourist hours, right? They're flying a lot. And you got to keep up to the maintenance, you got to keep up to trying to figure out how many hours they're gonna be putting in in a month, how many hours they're gonna be putting in three months, uh, making sure you got those parts coming, um, talking to the you know the the the the commander of the unit and and making sure that Jack was there? Oh, the commander I wasn't I don't remember being there. Sorry, yeah. And uh and uh you know making sure with him, like what's his schedule, when could we have the aircraft down, making sure they don't have any special details. And then again, once aircraft's down, you can hear that radio in the back, right? Is there two available? Is there two available? Is there two? No, it's down for minutes, down for minutes, and then it's like ah man, you know, uh, that's a call we could have been on. But at the end of the day, you gotta you gotta make sure that you do your job correctly. Try not to rush.
SPEAKER_05Um boy you were you just read my mind because it what you just said was that's additional pressure. You're you're actually hearing that radio, right? In your hanger, yeah, and now you wanna you wanna do everything you can to get that back. Uh my my question that popped in my head was how do you understand that but block it to do your job the right way, which you know what it is, you know how to do it, but that how do you block that additional pressure?
SPEAKER_03How do you personally manage that? Well, I give myself a deadline, right? And I I try to meet the deadline. So if I tell the customer, look, we need your aircraft for a week, right? And we're on day five, and I know we still got a lot of work to do, well then we're gonna we're gonna uh rearrange our day, so then we're gonna we're gonna make sure that by day seven we're done. We're not gonna kill ourselves working overtime. We're not gonna, you know, start doing shortcuts or any of that. We need to stick to the plan, right? Meet the deadline and block out all the noise in the background, right? And then you got the then and then you also got the the TFOs too that want to go out and fly, right? So you know, is it gonna be ready tomorrow? Is it because they're they don't want to be in a car or patrol car or sit in the hangar doing nothing, right? Sometimes they wanna they want to go out and catch bad guys, right? And I get it. It's you know that that's what your uh that's your bread and butter, that's what you want to do, right? But yeah, it's important that you stay focused and you try not to let the radio bother you, and because at the end of the day, right, if you make a mistake, then you're you're then other people's lives are gonna be in your hands too, right? Right. Your crew. That's right.
SPEAKER_05So there's extremes at both ends. Yeah, yeah. That's a real balancing act that that all of you have to do, but you that you're describing. That that's tough. Yeah, that's tough. I I mean uh we experienced it to a degree in law enforcement, certainly the Hems world. They they live in that world every day. When we talk to Blake and Mike about it, it's like, wow, it's really eye-opening. But on the MRO side, it is there. I love that you said you could hear the radio. Yeah, is Air Too available? Air too available? It's like, oh my god, it bothers you. Yeah, it's gotta be frustrating at times because you go, I know I can't I cannot do this today. It it is it's gonna take this much time. I it's I could be the the greatest mechanic in the world, and I can't do that today, no matter what that radio says. It's gotta be eat at you a little bit. It does. But but uh but it sounds like you you've learned how to deal with it to the in a very professional way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and you know what? I feel like it should bother you a little bit. Absolutely. It should, because if it doesn't, then you don't care. Yeah, yeah. Um and I think and I think and I think it's a good um it's a good motivator too. Yeah uh you know, when you look at your um, you know, your work, your, your, your, your ability to work, you need to have a little bit of that stress. Yeah, right. You need to balance the stress and um and then after your performance, so then you can get that that work completed properly, right? Um so it's it's it's good to hear it, it's good to know that you're you know you're you're you're chugging along and getting things done because it adds that little bit of uh pressure and you need that for performance. Um but but yeah, it does. Like I it should bother you and uh it makes you work better, it makes you work you know like with a little bit of urgency. Right. Right.
SPEAKER_02Um it's interesting hear you talk about that until you brought that up, both of you. I hadn't thought about the pressure that could be associated with listening to the radio as you're as you're maintaining the aircraft. In my hangar, we had the you know, the patrol radios being broadcast, the frequencies being broadcast in the hangar, as well as the air to air frequency. On that air to air, it was it was it was our local law enforcement frequency that a lot of times you'd have out of county aircraft come in and try and raise you to see if you're available to help them with the pursuit or or something. So they're hearing different forms of requests come across, and I never thought about the pressure that might add on someone's workload, you know, their mental mindset when they're maintaining the aircraft. That that's interesting.
SPEAKER_05It's almost to the point. See if you thought this too, because we we do this to each other all the time. We think we think things where if you know the aircraft's down for the day, you you know it, and the mechanics out there working it, and you know that they're they're doing their job, they're working it. Maybe turn the radios off. I mean, or down. So because what Nicholas just described, he's hearing it, yeah, and it's it's affecting him. He's he's dealing with it in a really good way. I love the tightrope that you just described. I thought that was really smart and very professional, but everybody's different. There, there will be some humans, because we're all human, that that might change something from hearing that. Do you see where I'm getting at? I mean, maybe, maybe that's where you go, well, we don't need that radio out there right now to interfere with what they're trying to do on this aircraft. When we know it's getting close, maybe we turn it back up. I I don't know. It's just something that popped into my head that I never ever ever thought about before.
SPEAKER_03Well, the the issue is that they need the radio for the other aircraft they have, right? Okay, and they need it for the the the RPAs and stuff like that. So they get they can't just shut it down. They can't shut it off. They need to be aware of what's going on around the region and that. And um, you know, it's just it is what it is, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02One of the things that was really cool for us, you know, in our hangar, the way was the way the way the hangar was built, our office space was downstairs. If you get a uh uh pursuit, for example, kicks off, you're hustling up the stairs and across the hangar floor to go out to the aircraft to launch. So that broadcast, our maintenance staff hears before we're up the stairs of a request for pursuit. They understand, they listen to the radio all the time to understand what's going on. Right. Our maintenance staff is off the aircraft that they're working on in the hangar, they're walking out to our aircraft to plug it in or or launch us uh without us even asking, but which is really cool from a team dynamic standpoint. Being a part of that is really cool, and it's so helpful for us as an air crew to have them out doing the fire watch and you know, doing a quick leak check or whatever, whatever it is they're helping us do to help us launch for this this request. Um, what I hadn't considered until we started talking about this is if you're up in the aircraft doing some critical task and you come off the aircraft to go help with the launch of this pursuit, your attention's redirected to something else. You know, what happens when you come back and like what what was it that I was doing, or where was I with this thing? Talk about how you can stay on track and and kind of protect yourself mentally from losing that that that attention to detail and and those those risks that are associated with that. Whether your mission is saving lives or servicing high value assets, onboard systems hoist stays ready to assist. Features such as single point payout, reduce the potential for hoist-induced load swings, enhancing overall safety. For more information, go to hoist-winch.onboard systems.com.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, you always have to go back multiple steps, right? So wherever you're at, you got to go back at least. I like to go back at least five or six steps. Right. So if you're if you have your your maintenance manual open, right, you're going through the different um tasks that you're you're doing on that job. If you're at if you were checking it off and you're at, you know, task eight, I'd go way back to four, right? Four or three. And then go through and go, yeah, okay, I did that, I did that, I did that, yep, yep, yep, and come back. And then of course, once it's done, have a second set of eyes looking at it, whether it's a pilot, um, another AME, constantly have someone else check your work. I think that's that's the key, right? To make sure someone else checks your work. Go through what you did with him, and then after, you know, have him, you know, give you the the the blessing. Yeah, it looks good, everything's everything's great, right? Because I mean it it is you got your your phones ringing. Everyone always says that you know, distraction, try not to be distracted, but it's it's impossible to not be distracted.
SPEAKER_05Distractions are a reality. Yep, you know, it's almost almost impossible to not have it. I mean, that there's there's ways to mitigate it, to to reduce it, right? Where you say I'm gonna I'm gonna turn my phone off while I do my pre-flight or something. There's ways to reduce it, but distractions are reality of life. Yep, yeah. Oh, they are, and there's different I love that how you deal with it though. You know, going back three or four steps, yeah. I mean, it's probably overkill, but the fact that you practice that that you you won't have a problem with that issue. Whereas somebody just says, well, I go back one, or oh, I know where I left off. Eventually that's gonna bite you, right? But if you go back three or four, that's never gonna bite you. I mean, you're gonna you're gonna be fine. Well, knock on wood, hopefully. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I I know, I know. I I shouldn't say never, I but but you know what I mean. I think that practice is really smart. Yeah, because uh I mean it it just we're human, you know. Everybody, the pilots make mistakes, mechanics make mistakes. We all make mistakes. Street cops, we all make mistakes every day. And you you just acknowledge the fact that that can happen, will happen. How can I reduce it, mitigate it, or even eliminate it if possible? And you're thinking of ways to do it. And that's your way by going back forward.
SPEAKER_03Man, that's great. I love that. And one way I learned to deal with that is reading up on different accidents and incidents. Yeah. Like I do that often. If I see something that comes through, um, you know, even with uh with APSA or Airbeat or something like that, they had an incident or accident, they they they say what the issue was. Our company has our own little newsletter as well, and it talks about all the different incidents and accidents that happened within our organization. And then after we have um the Transport Canada, they put out findings for different incidents and accidents as well. Read up on those, you know, if it's related to your kind of work, and then see like what the issue was and what happened to this guy or this girl, and you know how what what what were the what were the the Swiss cheese, yeah, right? Yeah as as they say, what what happened and and how you can prevent that from happening to yourself. Um so I think learning from other people's mistakes is is huge. And you know, constantly, you know, being aware of of uh you know this this ship can kill you, right? If you're not if you're not if you're not on on the ball.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, my my agency uh had an incident that I'll that I'll highlight just because it relates to to this conversation. Uh we had a mechanic and a pilot out uh do working on the top of the aircraft. I I forget exactly what it was they're doing, but uh there was a set of of wire snips and some rags up on top of the aircraft. And uh I I think there was a phone call or something brought both of them off the top of the aircraft. They walk into the hangar, they get distracted for a little bit, come back, and it's time to do a test flight. Uh so they they get in the aircraft, the both of them, uh, and take off at about 300 feet AGL just off the airport. Engine flames out, those wire snips and and the rags that were up on top got sucked into the into the intake, ingested into the engine, and it it flamed the aircraft out. Wow. Uh they autoed to the street below. Um they were flying a MD 500. Thank God, because those things are are you know pretty crash resistant. If there's something you were gonna be in when something like that happens, it's an MD. Uh they they wind up on this you know pretty major road down below, somehow didn't impact any other vehicles that were going either direction. They they crashed, the the skid spread, aircraft ends up catching on fire before they were consumed by the fire. A UPS truck just happened to be right there. The guy hops out and pulls both the mechanic and the pilot out. Pilot retire, well they both medically retire uh with with broken backs, but they but they survived.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02The whole the whole point to the story uh revolves around inattention, you know, coming off if you're coming off the aircraft to do something. I like the idea that you brought up of hey, let's go back four steps. At a minimum, let's let's go up on top of the aircraft and make sure there's no rags or wire sniffs up there that are gonna flame the engine out and potentially kill us, you know, like like you said. So I uh that those kinds of conversations and lessons I I love having on this podcast because it is easy for the human factors to to set in, right? For an attention to to sneak into to what it is we're doing.
SPEAKER_05Well, I'm I I never read that that accident report, but I'm sure the word distraction was in it multiple times. Did did you ever happen to read that?
SPEAKER_02I did, and I I don't recall off the top of my head you know how many times it was listed in there, but I'm I'm sure that was the primary cause.
SPEAKER_05Because that was the clear cause was the ingestion, but you know, the the the root of the cause of that was inattention distraction, you know. Yeah, I have to go back and and not and read that. Yeah, because we talked about that yesterday, because I I flew out to the hospital, took uh Chief Hillman out, or Captain Hillman at the time, I think, out to visit them in the hospital. And uh so I remember going out there within a day of that and hearing about it, and they already had known, I mean, that was odd. There's a crash, and it was already known. Well, this happened, you know, because it was pretty obvious uh very quickly. And you know, a lesson learned, you know, again, we're human. Yep, yeah, professional people that can have things happen to them, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Like you said, you can't eliminate the the distraction, but I like what you brought up mitigation. You can we can mitigate some of those things, you know. So there's ways, effective ways of mitigating some of those distractions. Anything that comes to mind for you as far as good ways to mitigate some of the distractions that exist in the in the hangar floor for you in public safety?
SPEAKER_03Like I said, just making sure um that if if you're working on something critical, right? We have discussions with um with with York. Uh we have our our safety stand-to meetings in that. And uh one thing we talk about is if we are in a critical phase of maintenance, don't talk to us. Don't talk to us. And uh, and I've spent some time with Airbus working, helping them uh recently, and they they adopted um uh a method where they they actually wear vests, different color vests. So if they're wearing like a red vest, that means they're in a very critical phase. Oh that's really smart. Yeah, I thought that was really cool. So if you're wearing a red vest, you're in a critical phase of maintenance, and you cannot talk to them, do not bother them. So we adopted something like that at York. Um at our old hangar, we actually made paint lines around the aircraft, and if we were doing maintenance, we asked that the TFOs do not cross that line. And uh, you know, some of them would laugh at her and be like, what? It's crazy. But until they get familiar with the aviation sector and see like how it's a lot different than just driving around, like it's serious, right? Like when and then they think about it, like, oh crap, yeah, you're right. Like this guy's working on my aircraft, I'm flying him. I don't want to bother him. Right? So we have that definitely. Forget about your phone if you're doing something critical. Forget about it. If it's ringing, let it ring, and you can pick that up later. So things like that help a lot. Especially when you get the support from other guys. And you know, and they and they agree, like let's let's let's leave them alone, right? We don't want to we don't want to distract them, um, let them do their job, and uh, and then uh when it's ready, then we'll go out and fly, right? Yeah, it's like sterile copic on on uh landing and takeoff.
SPEAKER_05Exactly. You know, where you just that's the general the general rule. You know, we we're not gonna talk. Everybody fudges that here and there, especially once you have a lot of experience, but it is a good practice, but the vest, simple thing like that. Yeah, because otherwise, you know, I I as a even as a pilot, TFO, whatever, I'm in the hangar. I don't know what you're doing. Exactly. You know, I see your intent, you know, you you're you're very focused on something, but but I've got an earth, I've got something I gotta ask you. Yeah, well, how do I know that I shouldn't be doing that right now? So the vest, I just what a simple, yeah, freaking obvious idea.
SPEAKER_03And they're it's genius, yeah, and they're very serious about it. I mean, I was wearing a vest, and one of the supervisors came up, he had to ask me something, and then he's like, You take your vest off for a second, and I'm like, What? Okay, so I was confused. I'm like, all right, take it off. And he's like, Oh, I gotta ask you something.
SPEAKER_05But he couldn't ask you if you were wearing it because it's the rule.
SPEAKER_03And yeah, I but I wasn't working, I was stepped away at my toolbox, right? But he's like, take off the vest for a second. I want to I want to ask you something. So, you know, it's pretty serious. Like, you cannot talk to a guy if he's wearing a vest. Yeah, wow.
SPEAKER_02Something else you brought up that I think is is valuable is is you you talked about the the meetings that you have, the safety meetings. Then I thought of my agency, and when we had a more a morning briefing every day on day shift, uh the maintenance staff and the air crew, as well as the supervisors, would sit around the table and we'd talk about you know what we had on the agenda for the day, any planned operations, and the maintenance staff would would say, okay, hey, this is how many hours we have budgeted for for flight operations today. And we would encourage you to stay within those, but you always can't always stay within those those hours because you get an unanticipated pursuit or surveillance or whatever the thing is. But it got us all on the same page. You know, if we understood if these guys are going to be involved in heavy maintenance today, it'd give us an opportunity to you know kind of understand. Maybe we shouldn't talk to these guys today. Is that something you guys practice? Those kind of daily briefings where you kind of all get on the same page and what are some of the benefits if you do?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so again, if it's like a mission, a very mission-specific um uh issue for the day, make sure that the aircraft's ready, right? So it's good to keep us in the loop. Um, you don't have to tell us exactly what the mission is, it could be classified or whatever, but I mean if you tell us, hey, look, uh at 12 o'clock today, we need to be in the air for something, right? Okay, perfect. Now we know how much time we have to get the aircraft ready to make sure whatever snags were were were there from the night before, get them all cleared up and everything. It's even better if they tell us the day before, right? But you know, York, York does a good job of having a big whiteboard. They have their their uh two months in advance, well the current month and the next month, and then they write, they jot down already like things that are coming up, right? And then after, you know, as a as a as a maintenance supervisor, I gotta go up there and I check to see what things are coming up, and then you know, try to uh uh make sure that the aircraft's available and it'll be it'll be ready to go, right? Right.
SPEAKER_02A lot of mental uh gymnastics that go into that, right? Yeah, I've seen I've seen our guys scratching their head, uh breaking things.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, uh when I say breaking things, I don't mean the aircraft parts, I mean like uh objects because they're pissed. You know, gotcha. But let's let's learn a little bit about your agency, you know. Um talk about York, uh where York is physically, and a little bit about the the the town, the area.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so uh right now they're in uh a temporary base, which is about an hour um east of Toronto, and it's about a 15-minute ferry flight away from their region. Um they had a hangar inside the region, and then uh it closed down, the airport closed down, the Buttonville airport there, so they had to um juggle some uh um uh you know, you know, some some airports and try to find a a new a new uh base that they can fly out of, right? So they picked the closest one, which is about it's a different region. It's called the Durham, it's in the Durham region. So it's now about 15-minute flight, ferry flight, just to get into the region, right? So that's another issue that they're having now is that that that 15-minute flight, right? It's also build up build up um uh airtime, right? That does that for maintenance for everything.
SPEAKER_05It seems little until you add it up over a month, six months, a year, and you go, wow, we're spending a lot of time just exactly you know, doing nothing, going getting to our our uh area operations.
SPEAKER_03Exactly, exactly. So um, you know, they their region is pretty big. It's probably almost the same size as uh Toronto, really. Um they got they got to cover a lot of land. They got the lake, they got a lake up north, and then they got the busier city down the south end. Um they have uh they have an aircraft they use, uh a fixed wing they use, an air van, Chip Zero Air van. Um they got the H-125, and then they got their their RPAs that they use as well for air support. They're uh great agency. Um they very uh on top of keeping with technology and that, yeah, with the advancement of technology, pretty much like the leaders in in the in the in the in the area, really. So I mean you know, they upgraded the the old aircraft, H-120, which was on steam gauges and and and over 10,000 hours, right? Now we're we're into the new H-125 platform with all glass cockpit, uh modern um mission equipment.
SPEAKER_02How's that been for you, that transition to the new 125 from the 120?
SPEAKER_03It's been great because you know the 120 wasn't it was an old bird, right? Um, so the older it got, uh you know, you you get gremlins all over the place. Uh the mission equipment was just getting too old to you can upgrade it, but it was getting too old to interface with the old systems on the aircraft, and then after it comes to a point where you're just kind of like your hands are tied, right? You're working with old stuff, and that's the way it's gotta be until you get something new. It's a little bit challenging though on the new uh the new the new equipment where it's all like dealers have to really get into it to to do any sort of changes with settings and that, right? You don't really have a lot of options as um as the end user to to troubleshoot or get into the different maintenance pages. Like some of these guys, they want you to up upload um you know, up like you got to stick in uh some sort of uh SD card or an Ethernet to your laptop or something like that, pull out all the data from the component, and then send them the data. Oh then after they look through all the data, and then they can kind of tell you, hey, look, this is the what the problem is, or look at this, look at that. Whereas in the old stuff, it was more simpler. You just kind of like check pin A, check pin B, and then oh, this is broken. Okay, there's no power there, perfect. But with new stuff, it's it it's it's pretty, you know, it's pretty um advanced. Yeah, right. So you kind of have to get to learn that that new aspect of it.
SPEAKER_02Think and rest sponsor quantum helicopters. For over two decades, Phoenix PD, Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, Mesa PD, and the Pennell County Sheriff's Office in Arizona have trusted quantum helicopters for primary flight training. We've helped boost their efficiency, cut costs, delivered unmatched quality, and keep them focused on public safety. Don't just take our word for it. Reach out and see how we can deliver the same results for your agency. Visit QuantumHelicopters.com to learn more. The Blades of Alor Tour 2025, we uh we flew with Texas DPS. They had a brand new H-125. It was actually on the floor of Verticon in Dallas. And we're like, oh, we're gonna get to to fly in their new their new uh their new A Star and and do a photo flight with them. And we're really excited. Well, there was a uh some sort of computer system that went out. It was what, 100 hours old, something like that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it downed the whole aircraft. They couldn't get a replacement in time for the photo flight. Oh wow. So just to your point of you know, uh things that you you I I guess wouldn't have anticipated causing uh an AOG issue in the past is now causing those issues, you know. Uh interesting how technology is both a uh a blessing and a curse again, you know, exactly with some of that.
SPEAKER_03Uh but it is it is pretty cool though, like how the newer aircraft the the the inspections become further apart, right? Um the overhaul limits become further apart, right? Like because they're so these these these uh the ASR has been around for so long, right? That it's a proven machine. So the components, you know, they're they're pretty comfortable with long overhaul times, you know, retirement lives. So I mean, really, it's you know, it's a nice machine to work on. I really enjoy it.
SPEAKER_02For the technician who's listening right now, who's about to get their first H new H-125 to work on, what advice would you have for them uh to help them kind of plan for that that transition?
SPEAKER_03Again, just read up on everything. Um look look through all the manuals, read through all the manuals, read through all the inspections, um turn the power on, right? See where all the buttons are, talk to the pilots, go on flights with them. Um you know, when the aircraft's down, take time to open up panels, to see where everything is, and uh and uh and just you know just enjoy the ride, really. It's it's a beautiful machine to work on. Pretty simple.
SPEAKER_02All good. Yeah, it's all good. Yeah. Well, I'm curious to hear about the the award that you won. And again, I'm gonna say I hate the word award, uh, because you you earned it. You know, it's not this wasn't a raffle prize. This is something that you earned. Talk about the award and and kind of what got you here today.
SPEAKER_03I I you know it's it's an honor, right? Really, to be the recipient of this award. I mean, I did I got a call from the president telling me that I won, and I was shocked. I don't even know if I even said anything. I was like, oh. He's like, yeah, so uh my team will be uh you know, they'll reach out to you about how to where it is and how you get there. And I was like, oh, okay. Um and the first thing I was you know going through my mind was, well, how did I get it, right? Like who who nominated me? What did they say? Because these are things still I don't I don't know, right? I guess I'm gonna find out later tonight when they put the You may or may not.
SPEAKER_05I mean, yeah, some some people like to just submit things and and just be anonymous so you don't know, but others will say, Why I nominated you? And this here's what I wrote. So you might you might know everything or you might know nothing.
SPEAKER_03Well, I know I know the TFO that did. Good. I know the TFO that did, but I don't know what they said what he wrote and and you know what actually um won, right? Like how you win over other people, right?
SPEAKER_05That you will learn, Nicholas. I mean, well, they'll they'll read off, you know, maybe not exactly what that TFO wrote, but they'll read a synopsis of why this TFO thought you were deserving of this and why they agree with them. That that'll be clear by the end, right? But but you probably have an idea, Nicholas. You're being humble.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you probably have an idea. I I honestly I just do my job. That's the thing, right? I just I I do my job, I go in, I do what I was I'm paid to do. And I think some people might think I go above and beyond. There you go. Right? I bet they do. My my my work, right? And to me though, that's my work ethic, right? That's just the way I am. Yeah, that's the way I was brought up, that's the way I've always worked. So it doesn't feel like I did anything different, right? You know what I mean? It's kind of it's kind of weird, yeah. And and even like when I was talking to the TFO, I mean a great guy, uh Brian Crawford. Uh he was here, he was here, uh, but he couldn't stay. Um, but all the TFOs that work for York, man, they're they're all great. They're all great. They really appreciate the work that the maintenance guys do. Yeah. Um they're well uh uh knowledgeable of like you know how serious our job is, and and um and uh and and certainly certainly thankful for for the stuff we do. So um, you know, I'm thankful for all of them, you know, to uh you know, be recognized uh for this, right? Yeah, it's it's a great honor.
SPEAKER_05I think it's safe to say that they that maybe that TFO wrote it and did the work, but I think it's pretty safe to say that the unit agreed and said, hey, you know, we gotta we gotta recognize necklace. You know, I I guarantee you that's what happened. And uh so you're doing something that that it pleases them because not everybody takes the time to to you know recognize and and and really show you what what you mean to that unit. And uh good for them for taking the time to do it. Exactly. Uh because you know that there's people that say it and think it, but they don't take that extra step to say, I'm gonna take the time to get input, write something up, submit it, deal with uh apps uh to make this happen. So good for them for doing it. Yeah, there needs to be more of that. And uh, but I guarantee you that it was a that was a that's a unit that's recognizing you, and that says a lot about the work that you do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, thank you. I yeah, I mean it's it's a great honor to be here, great honor to win the award. I mean, it's amazing. I don't know how many people submit you know nominations for different I don't know. That's it's but yeah, to to win it is is amazing.
SPEAKER_02Well, if you look at the US and in Canada, that makes up the the biggest uh percentage of helicopter operations worldwide. So the fact that that you won that in this region, and I know we're global, but you know, yeah, majority of the operations is is here in Canada, US. Awesome. You know, so congratulations. Yeah, thank you. Well done. Thank you for what you're doing for our community because you know we talk about no maintenance, no mission all the time, and and that's 100% true.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Hey, you said before, and people are probably wondering, they're thinking you and I are crazy. There's no Bobby big time without Nicholas. That's just a fact. I'm sorry, uh Mikey, but you know, uh, there's no Bobby Big Time without Nicholas and his colleagues that that keep those aircraft running because it the no maintenance of mission, that's just a fact. Yep, that's it's a neat slogan, but it's just a fact. And that incident, I mean, it's just amazing. And we we sat there listening to it going, oh my gosh, you know, we we were dumbfounded. But the the bottom line is if he doesn't get to take off that day, those robbers that were hitting again and again, again. It was a crew that was really hammering the the region, the whole region, including into Toronto. Yeah, and uh they would have just kept going.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_05And they weren't getting caught. And Bobby big time caught him. I mean, because of his skills and stuff, but he had a bird that was working and running and everything was working, camera, radios to make that happen. So that that that comes back comes back to you again, Nicholas. You know, it just does.
SPEAKER_03Right, yeah, and the team as well. I mean, I I can't take all the credit. The shout out to the pilots too. The pilots are are great guys too. They they put the they put TFOs in the positions they need to be in. Um, you know, and working with the pilots, we have to work together with the pilots too, right? Sure. To be in a to be a good maintenance engineer, you gotta work with the pilots um and try to make sure that together you guys can you know find out what's wrong with the ship, if there's something wrong with it. Um you you you're you you'll rely on them to give you some good information, and that's important, right? To have a good relationship with the pilots.
SPEAKER_02That seems like common sense, but I know it's not. Talk about that if you can in a little more detail. And I'll go back for a second. Uh at this year's vertical morale conference, uh, we had a presentation that was submitted that wanted to be done, and I think it is, and the topic is just that. How do you how do you leverage your your pilot for information? Uh so talk about the you know the good side that you know how how do you how do you proactively uh kind of debrief your pilot for the benefit of what you're doing?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I always tell them look, if you if you feel like something isn't right, just let us know, right? And um don't don't wait till uh things get worse, right? Before saying something. But also like you know, in the in the same breath, right? You can't come to like every little little, you know, oh I heard uh I heard this weird sound and uh oh this feels different like every every flight too, right? I mean you gotta you gotta understand the machine, you gotta fly it for a while to really know every little thing about it, right? When you start to work with the guy, you understand that he's got a lot of knowledge and experience on the aircraft. I listen to him. You gotta listen to him. And if he tells you that something doesn't feel right or something doesn't sound right, you know, you work with him to try to figure it out. And then you have to decide really if he feels safe, right? If he doesn't feel safe, then there's a problem. I don't want him flying if he doesn't feel safe. I don't want him risking his life you know for someone else, and then you know, at the end of the day, it could have been fixed if we just worked together and and and and and um uh and knocked it out ourselves, right? So the first thing I I want I want to make sure is that you know he feels safe with the aircraft. I ask him all the time, even well, this we got three pilots. Ask him at the end of the day or before or the next day, is everything good? Everything good with the aircraft? Yep, yep. And we adopted also something else that we came with uh came up with is after every flight or after they're finished their shift, they'll just send an email to us. And just with the amount of hours they wrote or the flu, and then uh if they have any issue with the aircraft, and just an all good, that's all we need to know, right? I don't want to come to work and not know if you guys had a good night last night or if there was something wrong with the aircraft or not. Like just just just be honest, and if there was something that didn't feel right, just write it in there, we'll go take a look at it, and then after again, feeling is it safe to fly? Right. If it's not safe to fly, making that decision that you know what, we gotta ground this aircraft till we figure it out. Right. And um and I think it's good that it's good to have the pilots, you know, that that are that are uh they were they were with us first with Canadian, but then recently York has taken the pilots and and um and hired them um through like for their own agency. So now the pilots are working for them, right? But still, it still feels like a team. Right. Yeah, that's what it's always got to feel to feel feel like a team, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I told you uh the time was gonna fly by, and it is. There's one more thing I want to get to before uh we end here. Uh talking about the benefits that that you've observed and and experienced as a pilot. So you're you're now a fixed-wing pilot, correct? Talk about that and how that's benefited you on on the maintenance side, and then flipping that, how that's how that mechanical knowledge has also helped you as a pilot.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's it's huge. It's it's really huge. So I I ended up finishing my my my uh private license because I started it and I wanted to finish it. I hate not finishing stuff, and and I always wanted to be a pilot. So about uh what five years ago, I uh since we were working at an airport where they had a flight school, I'd finish work and just go over there and just finish my lessons and and and got it all done. But you know what? Once I started flying by myself, it really opened my eyes to all the years of me trying to think is this pilot just like messing with me or is he just being picky? Or you know it's good, right? Like uh this gauge is jumping, oh this uh this this radio is is is uh static y. I can't really hear public. And you're going, oh man, again, like is it really that big of a deal? Yeah. Before, then after I start flying, and I realize, man, when you're up there, you want everything working a hundred percent. Yeah. And especially when you got passengers, you got your family, you're flying in a busy airspace, now your radio starts getting static-y, and now you're freaking out because you can't hear what the controller's saying, it all needs to work a hundred percent. And and I didn't realize that until I started flying. So now when a pilot comes up to me and says the radio's static y or this gauge is not where like it it freaks you out when you're flying, and then after a gauge is jumping, like especially like an EGT gauge or an oil gauge, like you don't know, is it faulty or is this real? Yeah. And when you're flying by yourself, and now you're like, oh man, like this is happening to me now. And now I understand why they're coming to me saying, Can you fix this? Like, this is not this is not a comfortable feeling. Yeah. And um so that's made me a better mechanic. I think it's made me a better, a better mechanic a hundred percent. Uh but on the flip side, flying has also kind of scared me more now because actually I'm constantly thinking of all the things that can go wrong. Right, right. Whereas I'd rather just be like fat thumbs, you know, just flying around. That's good and not and not be oblivious to everything, going around just flying around being like, oh, cool. But for me now, like flying, I'm thinking, are the mags running bright? Was it timed properly? When was the last inspection due? When was this engine due for overhaul? You know, when did someone check the A B that was due? Like all the things. Those are things I shouldn't be thinking of. I just should just be enjoying flying, but I can't, I can't erase it out of my brain.
SPEAKER_05Well, you have knowledge that the average pilot doesn't. Just like you know, before the average pilot had knowledge that maybe the maintenance side didn't. Now you have both. Yeah, yeah. And in in many ways, it's a gr I think I think it's a great thing overall, but I see the drawback. I mean, you're you start thinking about stuff that the average fixed wing pilot never thinks about. You're thinking about because you know things about the inspections and ADs and things that can go wrong and have gone wrong. And yeah, wow, that's it.
SPEAKER_03And when I do my walk around, I my walk around's almost like a hundred-hour walk around. My pastors are like, what the heck are you doing, man? I'm checking everything here. I don't know who was the last guy who flew it. I don't know where it's been. It's great. So yeah, in in in the pilot thing, it's made me a more cautious pilot, but it's kind of scared me a little bit more weird. Yeah. But for the maintenance side, it's it's it it's helped me become a better, better maintenance guy. Good to know. That's very interesting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, congratulations again on on the the award. It's really cool to sit here and talk to you. It's really important for our industry to recognize people like you, the passion you've got is what everyone should should walk around with, you know. Uh so it's it's been an honor to sit here and talk to you. Jack, any kind of closing thoughts before we walk out of here?
SPEAKER_05This is great meeting you, Nicholas. Congratulations. This is uh this is a great honor, and uh it's it's uh just it I I enjoy this. I come in with John now and then on the MRO side and and meeting the maintenance side is always uh interesting to me. And you you you brought out some really good points that uh uh that made me feel really good about where we're at in this industry with uh the MRO side.
SPEAKER_03So thanks for having me, John, and and thank you, Nicholas, and congratulations. Thank you guys for having me. It's been an honor. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_02One of the last questions I'd like to ask is you know, what advice do you have for the up-and-coming technician, the kid who's maybe in school right now, uh or or thinking about a career in this industry, what advice do you have for them?
SPEAKER_03Well, just enjoy the ride. It's it's not sometimes it's not easy. Um, a lot of people I find want to make money right off the bat. It doesn't work that way. Um you're not gonna be rich in this industry, I don't think. Um but they're expecting to make big bucks off the bat, and that's not gonna happen. I think it's important to put money aside. If you want to be a good tech, start with a company like I was like I started with small, small company. Um learn, just learn everything, uh learn from your mentors, right? Ask a lot of questions, try to get your hands on everything, don't be scared to break things, don't be scared to mess things up. Man, it's it's gonna happen. You're an apprentice, you're learning. Um and just enjoy the ride. It's it's sometimes like I said, it could be difficult and rewarding at the same time. Yeah, right. And then once you get that experience, then you can branch off and try to find something that pays better and and um you know something that can benefit you in the long run. But at be at the beginning, you know, just find somewhere where you can get your hands on everything. I think is important.
SPEAKER_02Make a mistake thing is is a great point. You know, I think that's one of the most valuable lessons you ever get is through a mistake you made. We're so afraid to make mistakes, you know. I think it's the ego step it up and be like, I'm I'm better than this, which you know you you want to be that way, but but I think you know the the risk of of failure sometimes is what prevents people from challenging themselves and doing something you know bigger than what they're doing currently.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean that's the way you learn, right? Is by making a mistake, breaking something, realizing, okay, next time I shouldn't do that. Yeah, yeah. I mean it eventually, you know, you are gonna break something. That's just the way it is, and you're gonna cost the comp the company money. Yep, yep. But part of the deal, right? But you you you know, you you work through that by working hard, getting back up in the morning, and trying again and doing other things that you can do to to to make your company big again, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, sir, thank you again. Congratulations. Uh hope to see you at the MRO conference in in Kelowna uh later this year. Um but until then, uh we'll just say congratulations and and uh awesome. Yeah, thanks a lot, guys.
SPEAKER_03Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02Congratulations, Nicholas. Well, thanks to our listeners for joining for this episode of the Vertical MRO podcast, coming to you from Fort Lauderdale at the APSCon APSA conference. This is a great experience. For all you that are planning to go to the MRO conference, look forward to seeing you there. But until next time, we'll catch you the next time on the Vertical MRO podcast. Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Hanger Z Podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe to hear more stories that promote the personnel and equipment behind the missions in public safety aviation. Lastly, stand by for a message after a word from our sponsors. Cheers. Thank you to our sponsor, Quantum Helicopters. For over two decades, Phoenix PD, Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, Mesa PD, and the Pennell County Sheriff's Office in Arizona have trusted Quantum Helicopters for primary flight training. We've helped boost their efficiency, cut costs, delivered unmatched quality, and keep them focused on public safety. Don't just take our word for it, reach out and see how we can deliver the same results for your agency. Visit QuantumHelicopters.com to learn more. Whether your mission is saving lives or servicing high-value assets, Onboard Systems HOIS stays ready to assist. Features such as single point payout reduce the potential for hoist-induced load swings, enhancing overall safety. For more information, go to hoist-winch.onboardsystems.com. Thinking to our sponsor, Centum. Airborne operators know that every second counts. LifeSeeker is a powerful phone location tool, helping search and rescue teams and law enforcement agencies locate missing persons faster, even in the toughest conditions. With hundreds of successful missions every year and proven reliability, Lifeseeker is trusted by public safety agencies worldwide. Want to improve your operations? Learn more at Centom.com.