We are excited to share Amy’s conversation with Michele Cushatt, an author, communicator, and 3-time cancer survivor. Michele's latest book, "A Faith That Will Not Fail," offers practices to strengthen faith during challenging circumstances. Amy and Michele talk about acknowledging and dealing with trauma honestly, offering hope. They also discuss the concept of lament and the practice of relinquishment.
Eps. 164 : April 16, 2024
Navigating Family Trauma: Finding Hope Amidst Hardship with Michele Cushatt
Summary:
Key Moments:
[9:20] Fear of letting go
[18:34] Struggle to be content, envy is natural
[23:08] Suffering reveals gifts
[35:12] Guide children loosely, but then let go
[41:20] Permission to grieve and trusting the process
Resources:
If you enjoyed the show:
We are excited to share Amy’s conversation with Michele Cushatt, an author, communicator, and 3-time cancer survivor. Michele's latest book, "A Faith That Will Not Fail," offers practices to strengthen faith during challenging circumstances. Amy and Michele talk about acknowledging and dealing with trauma honestly, offering hope. They also discuss the concept of lament and the practice of relinquishment.
Eps. 164 : April 16, 2024
Navigating Family Trauma: Finding Hope Amidst Hardship with Michele Cushatt
Summary:
Key Moments:
[9:20] Fear of letting go
[18:34] Struggle to be content, envy is natural
[23:08] Suffering reveals gifts
[35:12] Guide children loosely, but then let go
[41:20] Permission to grieve and trusting the process
Resources:
If you enjoyed the show:
Amy Brown:
Michelle, I am so happy to have you here. I've been looking forward to this conversation. You're in a snowstorm. I'm in a weird Airbnb with janky lighting, but I'm so glad that we made this happen.
Michele Cushatt:
Likewise, I meet you. I've been really looking forward to this. It took a while for us to get it scheduled, so there was lots of anticipation leading toward this.
Amy:
Well, I've read your books and known about you for a while, but for those of them are listeners who don't know you, could you just tell us a little bit about yourself and your family and your story?
All right, a little bit about me. I am married to Troy and we have six kids, including biological kids, step kids, and foster /adopt kids. So we have basically in our household, it's like a microcosm of the world at large, right? We've got a little bit of everything. And as far as my six kids, we have four boys, two girls. The oldest is 32 as of last weekend. Then it goes 30, 27, the 27 year old's married and they live in Texas. And then we have three still at home. These are our foster/ adopt kids. And there are 17, 16, 16, but the two 16 year olds turn 17 tomorrow. So I'll have three 17 year olds in the house starting tomorrow.
Yeah, that's our family. And then on top of that, my background, I'm a writer, speaker, an executive coach and a communication coach. I help people put presentations together. I've written four books. But the real story behind all of that is through all of these different things. I've also had head and neck cancer three times, cancer of the tongue.which is why I speak a little bit differently is because I've had two thirds of my tongue removed and quite frankly, I shouldn't even be here. So I almost died about nine years ago and it took basically the doctors almost killing me with chemo and radiation to save my life. And so it's a miracle I'm here every day. And at the same time, there's a lot of trauma in my house, both trauma with the foster adopt kids, trauma with my grown kids who are, you know, had to go through a divorce in their early childhood and then my own trauma having significant medical trauma in life and death experiences over the course of about 10 years. And so we have not only a microcosm of the world at large in our home, but we also have all the trauma, all the emotions, all of the, you could say brokenness in all of us in this.
We're trying to be a family and figure out what it looks like to live life together.
Amy:
One of the things I appreciate about your story is how honest you are with that trauma. I think it's easy to think, let's just pretty it up.
Michele:
Let's just say, oh, God is good all the time. Amen, hallelujah. And yes, but the reality of walking this out is hard and it's ugly and it's just full of grief. And I know what it feels like to be in so much pain that you feel like you're the only one and you feel completely alone. And I think that's a pain worse than any other pain. And so my mission is to do everything that I can to make the person who feels alone know that they aren't.
Amy:
Right. One thing I want to say is that I read your book Undone, which is the story of making peace with an unexpected life. And I forget how long ago I read it, but I remember feeling seen in your book because I was raising 6 bio, I mean, three bio kids. It feels like six., just double the number.
Michele:
Yeah, let's just, I mean, really, at that point, we just need to multiply it by three or so.
Amy:
But I was raising my three bio and my three kids that came from trauma and I just didn't know anybody.I would stand at the soccer field and hear about My kid didn't make it into the choir and I'm thinking I gotta hide the knives. What is it gonna be like when we get home? Like I didn't know anybody else who was walking this so your book made me feel seen and the other thing you give voice in a very vulnerable way to what you just said that it's hard and all the doubts and feelings,And what in the world was I thinking and all those things. And I appreciate that about you, that you are very authentic, but not like it's a big train wreck we're driving by and just like rubbernecking on. It is hopeful too.
Michele:
Yes, I hope so. I hope so. You know, and I think, you know, hope for it to be real has to be rooted in truth. Right. And so it doesn't serve anybody for us to pretend like it's all roses. And it doesn't serve anybody to just say, you know, life is hard and then you die. We need to have something in between where it's like it is genuinely some of the hardest things I've ever dealt with. Parenting kids with trauma, surviving trauma myself, literally there are days where I was hanging on by my fingernails and there are still days I'm hanging on by my fingernails and there's still hope and they're still good and we have to work a little harder to find it on some days but it's still good. And so I think that really is the definition of true hope. It has to be rooted in certainty, you know, of something better or good that is yet to be and it's kind of like...
There's a verse in the Bible that says, faith is a certainty of what you hope for and the confidence in what you cannot yet see. And that's hope. That's the definition of it.
Amy:
Right, right. Your latest book, which I think is a year old, am I right?
Michele:
Yes, the Faith That Will Not Fail actually came out in March. So yeah, it's almost exactly a year. So.
Amy:
The subtitle is 10 practices to build your faith when your world is falling apart. And I want to just start there with a little bit. Just some people who already feel downtrodden by it all go to practices, she's going to want me to pray more. Like, what does that mean? Right. And so I love the book because you have these five minute faith builders and you also have some practices that are kind of not what I expected.
Michele:
right? And you're like, I don't need more homework.
Amy:
There are some unconventional practices. And I hope we can talk about those a littlebit as we go through some of the questions I wanted to bring up. So we'll go back to those practices in a minute, but I want to start with one thing about you that, and I have in common, we already talked before we got on, things we have in common is we're both getter done type A kind of girls. And I always say when the going gets tough, Amy gets tougher. And so, but as we've both learned, I'm sure in our life that that doesn't always serve us well.
Michele: Yes.
Amy:
And so I'd like to start with the mom out there who is, or listening out there who's just like, I can save the day, maybe early on in the process of adoption, foster, I can save the day. It's all on me. I have to get all this done. What kind of encouragement would you give that mom as you're farther down the path?
Michele:
Hmm Yeah, this is this is I mean this is a hard one for a lot of us because when there is a problem we want to believe we can fix it that if we just work a little harder if we just pull a different lever if We just turn a different knob we can somehow solve Reality we can somehow make everything better and One thing I've had to remind myself and keep coming back to is you cannot self help yourself to wholeness.
And this is what I mean by that. That's really hard because we live in a self -help culture where you can buy a book to solve just about every problem. But the kind of wholeness that you and I need, the kind of wholeness that our trauma kiddos need, the kind of wholeness that those going through medical trauma need, is a wholeness that cannot be self -help. It has to be divinely given. Right? And so if I continually think that I need to be the savior, then I'm taking a job that I'm not meant to assume.
It's a role that's too big for me. I cannot fix it. That sounds terrifying on one hand, that there are challenges and healings that need to happen that I can't orchestrate. That's kind of, because we have to at that point relinquish control. Like we don't have control. But then on the flip side of that kind of fear of letting go is the freedom of knowing that we do have a savior who knows how to deliver the healing that we need.
who knows how to deliver the healing that our kids need. And he's all about that kind of wholeness. And so, you know, it's just that constant reminder, and this is for the person that is still in that savior mode, you know, that's gonna work until it doesn't. In other words, you know, it's kind of like your car's gonna drive until you'reout of gas. So yeah, that's gonna work for you until you run out of gas, but you will run out of gas. And so to remind yourself that it is not all up to you.
that you don't have to be the savior, that you cannot self -help yourself to wholeness, you cannot self -help your kids to wholeness, but we do have a savior and he knows how to heal.
Amy:
Yeah, I love that, that you can't self -help yourself. I also think we may realize, okay, I need help, but we also have this idea that we don't know how to rest and take care of ourselves. And I know for me, like when I would go to, let's say a neuropsych eval, and they would send me these 10 pages of all the kind of therapies that might work, and I would sit down and like highlight them and want to check them off and like get them all done. And one of the practices that's been super helpful for me is to go, okay, I obviously, I'm one person that can't do all these. And not all these things may work for my child. And it's okay to say I'm not doing this one or that one, but I think the practice that has helped me the most is when I get overwhelmed with information or behavior that I'm like, oh my gosh, I got to solve this or more information about the trauma my kids have been through is to ask God, what do you want me to know about this? And what do you want me to hold in my hands today? Because I think that's the key is we get so caught up in our own ability,and we forget that it's just really day by day.
Michele :
one day at a time, and we do have limits, right? This was really a very particularly hard thing for me because when you have, you know, basically we have Irish triplets, right? So having three trauma kids that are that close in age, everything's magnified, right? Just exponential. And then on top of that, I had a life and death place for a couple of years. So I was really very, very ill. And then in the middle of all that too, my dad died of pancreatic cancer. So there were a lot of needs, my mom, you know, all of this, a lot of needs. And I have such compassion for the needs of other people. And I tend to want to, you know, I'm kind of, you know, that mom that wants to serve and take care of everybody. And I thought that in order to be a good mom and a good Christian, that I needed to be selfless and take care of everybody's needs. Okay.
And if I was going to do it right, that means I needed to consistently deny myself and take care of everybody around me. And so when I would get those lists of therapies from the neuropsych or from the behavioral counselor or whoever, I felt like I could only be a good mom if I did everything that they said, right? To the neglect of myself. And then one day in a family systems therapy meeting, I learned the saying, Everybody's needs in the household matter. I had this therapist looked at me andsaid, everybody's needs in the house matters. I went, wait a second. No, I'm an adult, only the trauma, only the kids with the hard history have needs that matter. I'm an adult, I shouldn't have needs. And she said, no, everybody's needs in the family matters. What do you need?
And that was so eye -opening for me to understand that I could actually pay attention to what I needed. And what I needed sometimes is to say, I only have the energy to do, like you said, this one therapy, but I also need a nap today and I'm gonna have to get a nap. Or today I just don't have it in me to do X, Y, Z. And so good enough is going to be good enough today. And that's what we're going to do.
And so to learn how to pay attention to my needs while serving the needs of my family was a far more healthier approach to living the long game versus the short game.
Amy:
Right. I think that's so good. I think there's so much guilt around, but I'm not doing everything. And I also think there's this idea, people come along and say, oh, you're just so patient or you do all these, and that kind of makes you want to hide more and not admit, hey, I need a break.
Michele:
Well, you think that you have to be patient all the time. And the thing is, is that's not even realistic. You cannot live in a household with raging or explosions or violence or whatever it may look like for hours and hours every day without reaching the end of your limits. I mean, our body goes into fight or flight. Like you don't even have control over that yourself. Your brain immediately after two hours of a kid that's in the rage,your brain goes into its own fight or flight. And if you don't pay attention to that, that becomes damaging for everybody. And so understanding that and normalizing that is so essential to long -term health and wholeness for everybody. And then I'll even go so far, because I feel really strongly about this. I'll invite your input on this after I say it, see if you agree or disagree.
Michele:
Our kids had some hard stories, right? When our kids have hard stories and hard histories, and we have compassion for them, but having compassion for them doesn't mean that we teach them that nobody has needs but themselves. Like part of good parenting, I believe, is also helping them see that I have needs too, for them to not just be aware of their own needs, but also to be able to connect with and see the needs of the people around them.
That's part of their growth and maturity and their hopefully future ability to integrate with society is to understand that everybody has needs and that everybody has value. And if I continually try to be superwoman and not need anything, I'm not teaching them how to be both self -aware but also other aware.
Amy:
I 100 % agree with that. So I was going to say that I think it's easy to fall into the trap of like, okay, we have a child that came from an orphanage at age 10 and he was our third child to come into our home, third adopted child, final child of six. And I remember at first when my other kids were struggling thinking in the back of my head, yeah, but he was in an orphanage and yeah, but this was his hard story. And it took me a minute to go, no, wait a minute. Yeah, that is his hard story, but we can't just...park there and think nobody else has a hard story or nobody else has needs and i think that's easy to do when when some of the children have a lot more trauma and you're you want to tell the other kids to buck up you didn't live in orphanage like i never said that i don't think i think i thought it
Michele:
And I even directed to myself, I was like, what's wrong with you? You know, they had all of this, you should be fine. I would shoot myself to death. Like you should be okay, you shouldn't be upset, you shouldn't be mad, you should have done better. And it's like, wait a second, I've had a hard story too.
Amy:
Yeah. Yeah, that's good. And I think that's going to help our listeners go, okay, I, it is okay that I take a nap. And I would also add that if you've been in fight or flight for a million years, it may be hard to take a nap. I know for me, when I first, my therapist said, I need you to take a nap. I circled my bed for 45 minutes and I could not lay down. And she said,it's because you're still in fight or flight. And I'm like, well, there's nothing like, there's no raging going on right now. No, I'm not. And she's like, yes, you are. You've been in high alert for so long. So I had to start tiny, tiny, tiny steps of just lying on my bed.
Michele: Yeah, it's high alert stage. Yeah, yeah. That's so valid. You know, I started having physical symptoms of all the stress. Like I would have these autoimmune rashes break out on my face. And it was all from being in that high adrenaline, high fight or flight mode for so long. And that's your body's way of saying, hold on a second, you have needs and you're not acknowledging them.
And sooner or later, someone who's had significant medical problems, sooner or later it is going to come out. So you better pay attention to it. Otherwise it will demand that you stop and pay attention to it. And that's not any fun, I can tell you that.
Amy:
Right. When I mentor often they think I'm going to start with, here's all the things you can do for your child. I always start with, let's talk about what makes you light up and what makes you tired. And let's start thinking of ways you can put small ways that you care for yourself in a day. And I think we have this idea. It has to be like a spa for a week and that's so not doable, but there's ways that we can. Right.
Michele:
Reading a novel, like reading an easy fiction where I can escape for a half an hour. Oh my goodness, that does it for me. Like come up with a small way. Go in your backyard, sit in the sun. I've done that before. You know, make yourself a milkshake for crying out loud. If a milkshake makes you light up, then have a milkshake.
Amy:Right, I totally agree. Well, I appreciate that. So one of the questions I get a lot is,How can I be content because I'm so everybody else's life seems so much better. Um, it's hard to be content and not be jealous of other families, even other adoptive families. I was telling somebody that there was a kid in our area that was adopted around the same time as our son, you know, I think he was 12 living in a Russian orphanage.,like he's gone to the white house and he's like, done all these great things... And you're just, you don't not want that for them. You're kind of like, Mm -hmm.
Michele:
Couldn't he just rob a bank or, you know, be truant or something like that to normalize the rest of us?
Amy:
Yeah. Right. So it's not only just with kids that don't have special needs, but just that is, I hear that a lot. Like a contentment eludes me because I just, it's so hard.
Michele:
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Well, you know, a couple of things. It's so interesting that we, like, want to be content and so we'll try to, like, we'll, it's like we're gripping the steering wheel of contentment, trying to be content. It doesn't really work that way. Usually a lack of contentment means there's some kind of loss or something that we need to grieve, especially when it comes to trauma kids. We're not talking about materialism here or whatever. It's just like genuine loss.
We don't have families that look like the way we imagine they would. And let's just tell the truth about it. I think, you know, like you mentioned my first book, Undone, a story of making peace with an imperfect life. I had to first admit that I have an imperfect life and this is how it's going to be. But in order to admit that, I had to allow myself to grieve the dream that I once had. And I think that's actually a necessary step to contentment. It's why I opened my most recent book with,
the practice of lament and the practice of simply mourning the fact that what is real is not what we imagined. And this is so important. Our brains, those of us who have worked with trauma, we know that our brains are wired up to be like a smoke detector. They're wired up to sense danger, right? To look for danger and react to it. So until we acknowledge grief and loss, our brain's going to continue to ping us.
with reminders of that, right? And so that's why as adults, part of our job is to bring that loss into awareness and acknowledge it. So we acknowledge the losses, we tell the truth about it, and I'm all about getting really physical with that, and that means I'll write it down. I mean, after I went through cancer and have a very disabled body, I had to literally sit down and write down the ways that my body does not function the way it used to and mourn that. Now we can't stay there, right? It can't just be a list, but...
That's where it starts. It's like telling your brain, I see what you're trying to warn me about and alert me of and you're right. These things really are hard and painful and I feel sad. And I have a right to feel sad about these things. These are valid losses. Then moving on, once we do that and allow ourselves to grieve, we can say, what...
And this is a hard turn, okay? So we're gonna make kind of a shift, but it's a really important one. It's thinking, what gifts have been made accessible to me, not in spite of the losses and pain, but a direct result of it? Okay? And this is what I mean. For example, I lost two thirds of my tongue, my vocal cords were burned, I have...
I have burn scars from my nose to chest on the inside of my esophagus and mouth and throat and on the outside. I've got burns everywhere. It makes it very hard to talk. I can't sing hardly at all anymore. I used to be able to sing wonderfully. I used to have a great voice for radio and podcasts. Now I talk funny. So I can sit there and focus on all of these losses, right? If I want to make a heart, okay, so now I'm going to ask myself, what, what, unique opportunities or gifts or insights or realities are now possible, not in spite of my losses, but as a direct result of them. Well, I have a daughter who has a speech and language delay and is on an IEP. Guess who understands speech and language challenges? And now rather than her feeling like she's the only one.
She sees me as an adult who's making a living as a communicator and speaker in spite of my speech challenges. What an extraordinary gift. I've also been told that when people hear me on the radio, they immediately know it's me because I have such a unique voice. So the thing that I thought made me disqualified now becomes the thing that sets me apart from every other voice out there. And I could keep going, right? I could keep going with examples.
So part of the practice of contentment is starting to shift and say, how am I getting some kind of gift or something that I didn't expect as a direct result of my suffering? Another one is I have lost a lot of my insecurity because I now can't hide my flaws. I used to be plagued with insecurity and self -doubt and I still have my moments.
But something happened when my whole body and voice and identity was wrecked that now I just, this is all I've got and they set me free in a way that I couldn't have experienced before. So, and we could keep unpacking this, but that's part of that secret of contentment is one, lamenting the very real losses, the things that did not turn out the way we thought and starting to shift it and look at.
What did these losses provide for me that I could not have discovered any other way? There's a verse in Isaiah that says that there are treasures in darkness, secrets in hidden places. And part of our job of contentment is looking for the treasures in the dark places, because they're there. They're there. We just have to find them.
Amy:
Right. Right. I love that. And I love that you start with naming. I think there's this idea that we're not allowed to name it. We may say, my life is really hard, but someone else's life appears harder. So I shouldn't be complaining.. So naming specifically, and I love the way that you wrote it out. That's what I would do. I'm a writer too, but just name., I think we just, it's almost like we're in a room with no lights on.
Michele:
Pain is pain. Pain is pain. Mm -hmm.
Amy:
And if we don't name,What's in that room? We can't turn the light on and continue to walk through the door. Um, the naming makes it concrete and just, and God can handle that obviously. I think we shouldn't say this. So I love that. And I also love the turning of, and I think you would agree that that's a process. You just don't like whoop it out one day and then, Oh, here's the good thing. Yeah.
Michele: Yes, 100%.
Oh, that's a huge process. And I still have days where I feel sorry for myself and I allow myself windows of time to be sad about it. I mean, just a couple of weeks ago, I went to my husband and I said, I am just so sad that my body doesn't work and I have chronic pain every day and talking is extraordinarily painful. And I said, I just get so tired of being in pain all the time. And I give myself permission to feel that.
for a few hours or for a day, but then I set a limit and I turn. The other thing that's helpful, and this is kind of a third part of that whole contentment process, is I think it's really important for us to start to see the world at large and not just our American dream reality. And this is what I mean.
The vast majority of the world has a lifespan that's far less than ours is. The fact that I'm 52 means I have already lived beyond the lifespan of some countries, entire countries. Also, 200 years ago, most people, like when it came to infant mortality rates, were like triple what they are now, or like triple what they are now. I think...
The fact that I live in an urban area of Colorado in the United States of America means I have access to more medical care, high quality medical care than the vast majority of the world does around the world. When I think of my trauma kiddos, I have access to therapists and psychiatrists and resources and I have a college degree and I've been, I mean, I have all kinds of privilege in my life that has resourced me better than a lot of people have to deal with these realities. Now, again, this doesn't mean it's not hard, but as I'm moving from the lament phase, having a good global awareness of really how privileged I am helps to put that in perspective. And that perspective is a really essential part of contentment.
Amy:
Right. I agree. You know, in the book, you, in your newest book, you talk about the practice of Shalom. And I believe it's in that chapter, you can correct me if I'm wrong, that you're having some kind of scan and you had a card in your hand praying for other people. And that, that struck me. I thought about that for several days. Like the times that I am like, must be nice, da da da, you know, like this, but also,
be praying for other, I mean, that's like a sense of community. I think you say something like Shalom is for, not just for ourselves, but for the community. And I would love for you to talk a little bit about Shalom, because I love that chapter. And I don't, that's something people like, what does that mean really? And how does that apply to our lives?
Michele:
Yeah. Shalom is an Old Testament word that's often translated, it's a Hebrew word translated peace. But peace doesn't really describe it. Like we've made peace about kind of like peace and quiet or calm. And that's not really what it is. What peace is, what shalom is, is an internal sense of completeness, of wholeness in Christ. That we are holy who we are asof God is God's children, right? It's that completeness and wholeness. Well, the reality is God made us to live in a community. So our completeness, our wholeness is dependent on being a part of the greater community of humanity. You know, this whole individualistic nature of our American culture is not how we were actually formed by our Creator. And so to operate in this place of shalom or wholeness,
is really only full as we operate in the community. And that's part of why I believe in telling the truth about all of this. Because when I open the door to reality, I invite community, like we can all be in this together. And when we're all in this together, we all experience a measure of healing. Like as we're talking on this podcast, you're being healed a little bit more, I'm being healed a little bit more, the people who are listening are being healed. Like we're healing together in community.
I've had a counselor tell me once that whatever is wounded in relationship is also healed in relationship. And we know this, that when it comes to trauma, the biggest indicator of healing from trauma is the existence of one safe, stable relationship, right? That if you want, you know, the biggest predictor of adult health from a child that has a history of severe abuse, neglect, trauma is the presence of one safe, significant other.
That's what it is. Well, that's the story of the gospel. That's the story of what God has done for us. He sent Jesus to be the one safe, stable, and significant other to bring us healing and community. And then when you and I do the same thing, then we all experience a measure of shalom, which is completeness, wholeness, healing in this life, and then eventually in the ones come.
Amy:
I love that. And I love that chapter because I don't think we think of shalom normally, like that's kind of a newer word for some people. And I do, I agree with you that when we tell our story to somebody else and it's hard, I admit there are times we're afraid to say, here's what's happening, but it heals us. It makes us feel more seen and heard.
Michele:
Yes, absolutely. And it's why even before we started recording, you and I were doing that. And, you know, it kind of feels like you're opening your underwear drawer for everybody, right? That there's this like, but when things that are hidden are brought into light, they lose their sting. Right? And at the end of the day, the truth is, is I am only here by the grace and mercy of God. That's it.Like I don't deserve, I am, there are days that I am just, I am such a failure as a mom. I am saved by grace. That's why I'm here. I don't have to prove it. I don't have to earn it. I don't have to try to achieve it. All I can do is receive it. And when that knowledge really sinks in, I have nothing to hide. And you have nothing to hide. And in the process, we start to heal and become whole.
Amy:
Right. And I love that. And I think sometimes we're on the receiving end of criticism because of our kids' behavior , I mean all the time!
Michele:
Oh, yes. Yes, all the time. Like when your kids act out and you're like, and they're like, if they would just, you know, it's their parenting, if they would just do X, Y, Z, their kids wouldn't do that. And it's like, oh, if you only know.
Amy:
Right. I would, I would say that you and I are farther along the path. So what would have made me cry and be in total shame for days now? I'm like, okay, I kind of take it.One time we got a call from the, I was out to lunch with a friend. I've got a call from the principal. Somebody needed to be, uh, expelled again, again. and I picked up the phone and I go, Oh, it's the school. Talked to the principal. Okay. Hung up. My friend was like, Oh,
Michele:)
And again, been there and done that, yes.
Amy:
do you have to go? And I'm like, I got 20 minutes, I didn't get there immediately. In the past,I would be shriveled in shame when I would hear things about my child or the judgment. But so I think that kind of stuff kind of makes us go, I don't want to tell anybody my story, but I think that the Lord, we're wired for connection. You know, God made us that way. I think we can trust God to, if we come outside of that shame shell a little to say, who is it? It may not even be a fellow mom like you and I have a lot in common. It could be another person that doesn't even know, but a safe person. that you can even say, I need a safe person. I don't need you to give me solutions. I just need you to hear me.
Michele:
Yep. Well, and I do think there is some wisdom that we need to exercise in who we share with. There are some people that literally cannot carry it. So we choose not to expose ourselves to people who will judge it. You know, there are some people that don't have, they haven't yet started to see the world as it is. And so they still believethat everything's very formulaic. And if you just do the right things, you get a good life or you get a good result.
You know, there are times where I'm like, I'm just not going to disclose my reality to those people because it's just not a safe relationship and they just don't have the ability to process that with me. But that said, then I find those safe people and I intentionally take steps towards vulnerability because I need it, but also they need it. We both do.
Amy:
Right. Right. That's a, that's a good point. Um, okay. So one of the questions I get a lot is, um, this is so hard, harder than I thought. God called me to it, but why is it so hard? But also I'm afraid of what's going to happen tomorrow, next year, 10 years from now, are they going to be in prison? I hear a lot of moms just say, like their brain just goes on rapid fire fear of the future. And I don't want to dismiss that because we do have alarming behavior sometimes, I think that's normal to think, oh, they haven't even hit puberty yet and we're having these behaviors. So how can you speak to the moms out there that they just, they're just so afraid of what's next.
Michele:
Mm -hmm. Well, some of that fear is valid, and I hate to say that, right? I don't want to... I'm such a... It's valid. I'm going to be a truth teller. Some of that fear is valid, and the truth is, we don't know what's going to happen. Okay? And... But that's true for... Quite honestly, I have biological kids, too. That's true for all of our kids. We don't know what they're going to choose and what they're going to do. I have grown... I have three grown sons who are making their own choices.
Michele:
And I have fear about them, you know, it's a different kind of fear than my trauma kids, but it's still there. Ultimately, all we can do is to steward the time that we have the best we can, but ultimately, they're gonna have to carve their own path. My husband and I just had this conversation a couple days ago. At some point, you know, we have to be diligent as parents, but we also have to sit there and hold loosely the fact that...
They are individuals that are going to have to carve their own path. And that means they're going to have to live with consequences. They're going to have to live with choices that they make. They're going to have to figure it out. And we can coach and we can guide and we can give consequences and we can put safety measures in place. But eventually they'll all be 18. And there's only so much we can do. Now, that's terrifying if we don't believe in the reality of God. OK.
I sit there and think of myself as 18 years old and granted I didn't do some of the things that my kids have done. I was a pretty good kid, but I was still confused and messed up and lost at different times. And God has been so faithful to me. He has guided me. He has corrected me. He has healed me. He has led me. He has done so much for me. And he was faithful to me and continues to be faithful to me, even through all of my questions and doubts. He can be trusted to carry them too.
Amy:
Right. I want to go back to something you said earlier, though, that I think some of that fear comes from this idea of if I do all the right things, I will get, which is a faulty narrative.
Michele:
correct. It's faulty. It's faulty. I mean, I can't tell you how many parents that have traditional families that have had a kid or two that went off the rails, you know, that had mental illness that made the wrong choice. You know, it's everywhere. You know, we want everything to be so formulaic and, and at some level, the idea that it's formulaic gives us some kind of comfort. But life doesn't always follow a formula. In fact, very rarely it does. For example, you know, I've had cancer, head and neck cancer three times. Started when I was 39 years old. Just so everybody knows, I was running half marathons, I was doing triathlons, I was eating super healthy, my whole family calls me the healthiest person they know. I was doing all the right things. I didn't smoke, I rarely drank, you know, it's, and I still ended up with head and neck cancer. It doesn't follow the formula.
Well, the same is true for our kids. You know, it's important to do what we can and to be steward of that, but you can do everything right and still end up with the wrong results.
Amy:
Right. And I would say in my experience, I can look back, I didn't always feel it in the moment, but I can look back and go, I know God never left because my kid made a bad decision. You know, he walks us through that and sometimes it doesn't feel like it actually in the moment. But I just think that's going back to what you said. I've learned a lot from walking this life. I'm more compassionate to other kids that are acting out in public and all those things.
That fear of the future is real, but it does rob us of the present.
Michele:
We only and yes, you're absolutely right. The fear of the future is real. I've everything you said. I've been there. I've done that. I still have days where I feel some fear over different things and you try to predict what will or will not happen. All that does is rob you of being present at the moment. Our worry about tomorrow has no ability to change the outcome. None. None. There is nothing that we can do at two o 'clock in the morning ruminating in our bedroom that can change the future, nothing.
Amy:
What is it about two o 'clock in the morning? That's like the main time.
Michele:
I know, right? Right? And we can't. And for me, I have to do some really practical things to remind myself and to get out of the loop in my head and not simply doing things like saying out loud, God, I trust you. I trust you. I don't know what's going to happen. It scares me, but I trust you. And the other thing is I have a friend a while back who found out she was pregnant.
when her firstborn was only about six months old. Right? So she was like, wait a second, I wasn't planning this. I have a six month old and now I'm pregnant again. That means I'm gonna have two kids under the age of two. And I told her, well, here's the good news. You don't have to be ready for your second kid for another nine months.
And I said, I believe when the time comes that you hold child number two in your arms, you will have what you need to carry that child. And I have thought of that. So I gave her that advice. And then as I was telling her that I went, oh, I could probably use that for myself and remind myself, okay, right now I have three 17 year olds. Um, by the time I don't have to carry the weight of worry over there, 24 year old selves yet because we're not 24. But at the time they're at that age, I trust that God will give me what I need to carry them when the time comes. All I have to do today is carry the 17 year old. That's all I have to do right now.
Amy:
I think it's too helpful to look back because my therapist said Amy look back at the other crisis you guys handled it Like you you're still standing maybe a little Yeah, so and they're right so I think that's the other thing like you're right God will give us what we need at the time So yeah, even if you don't have a kid from trauma, everybody's terrified about him being teenager.
Michele:
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Still standing. We didn't kill each other.
It's a thing. Let me tell you, I've raised, I tell people I've been parenting for 30 years now and I have had teenagers in my home for 18 of those. That's a lot of teenage years. That's a lot of hormones in my house. And you know, it's not easy, but we've gotten through 18 years. I guess we'll get through a few more.
Amy :Yeah, me too, me too.. I call it Olympic level parenting. We're in the Olympic levels. Oh, I just love how I just love this conversation. So as we wrap up, first of all, thank you for being here. I just really appreciate your honesty. I would be interested with your new book. you have several practices. Is there one that you're really leaning into right now in this phase of your life or?
Michele:
At this phase of my life, when I wrote the book, Lament was the one that I was... And it's the one that I hear people talk about the most, that ask about... Because I don't think we've given ourselves permission to grieve, like to just do the work of grieving. So that's the one I hear people ask about the most often. Right now what I'm leaning to is the practice of relinquishment.
just letting go and trusting the process that God you have been working healing in people's hearts and minds and lives for thousands of years. I can trust you in the next year, the next 12 years, the next in my kids generation. Yeah I can trust you with the rest of it right? I can trust you with that but this practice of holding I'm holding my hands open right now even if I say that. of stop trying to grip everything so tightly, let the process unfold, be faithful to what I can be faithful to, but open my hands and trust that God is driving this vehicle and I can trust that He knows where He's going.
Amy:
Right. That's good. It reminds me of, I think it's John Elderidge that calls it benevolent detachment. And yeah, it's, and Saint Ignatius calls it holy indifference where I give everything and everyone, everyone to you. And, um, it takes a while to pry your hands open, but it does make a difference in how you see your day. It doesn't mean they're not going to have a rage and somebody raging for two hours. in the next 30 minutes, but I don't know, it's a lightness that is in our soul that I think is really helpful, but it is a practice. You don't master it after one time. And that's what all these practices are. And I love the book has five minute fake builders, because they're short.
Michele:
True. Yeah, absolutely.
Short, sweet, because who has time? While you're dealing with all this to do three hours, right? It's five minutes. And really, you know, you mentioned the practice at the beginning. It's not practicing us doing more work. It's us resting in the work that's already been done. That's what these practices are, is us stopping and going, guess what? God's the heavy lifter here. We aren't. God's the heavy lifter. I can just rest in this. And I'm going to practice resting in this.
Amy:
Right. Thank you, Michelle. I know our listeners will be really encouraged by your words today. Tell us where we can find you. I'll put them in our show notes, but where can people find you?
Michele L
Well, the easiest way to find all my different connection points, including socials and everything, is at my website, which is just michelecushattt .com. It's Michele with one L, Cushatt with two T's. I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook, I'm on all of these different places, but you can find tons of free resources on my website. If you go into the resource tab, you can go and download all kinds of free resources. I'm all about resourcing people and there's a blog and podcasts and YouTube and everything else, but...
Hopefully if you just need to know you're not alone, you can find a little bit of encouragement there.
Amy:
Yeah, it's a very encouraging site. So thank you so much for being here today.
Michele: Thanks, Amy.