How to Be Freer (with Bijou Finney)

This week we're with THE Mushroom Mamasita, Bijou Finney. Bijou specializes in holistic guidance and Brand Stylist™. Listen with us to learn about all things psychadelic, introspective, and hopeful.

Special Thanks to Our Incredible Guest:
Bijou Finney: Instagram, Website

--------------------------------------------------------

Watch the show on YouTube!
If you'd like to be a call-in guest on our show, email us at grandpaandchill@gmail.com
Follow us on Twitter @GrandpaChill for good memes and highlights from the show.
Follow us on Instagram @GrandpaandChill
Find new ways to listen: https://linktr.ee/GrandpaChill
Join our NEW Patreon!
Starring Brandon Fox, Sierra Doss, Phines Jackson and of course, Grandpa.

Produced by Sierra Doss and created by Brandon Fox/Barton Frank
Instacart - Groceries delivered in as little as 1 hour.
Free delivery on your first order over $35.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, we may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!
Start for FREE

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

0:47

Hey everybody I'm Brandon Fox. I'm here with our amazing producer, Sierra, Our co-hosts Phines, and as always, my grandpa. And today we have on—Bijou! Yeah. And I've been super excited for this episode. I would love if you could give the audience just like a little bit more background on who you are, how you got, what you got into, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, well, thanks for having me on the show, everyone. I originally got into the line of work that I'm in because I was a branding consultant, so I was working with a lot of entrepreneurs on their brands and really just like coaching them to be better at business and to show up for their business and personal brand wise. And I was really interested in biohacking like optimize seeing yourself with either like wearable technology or supplements or just performing better, your brain's working better and you're just showing up for yourself. And that kind of got me into using psychedelics for myself and I saw so much benefit from it at first I was kind of just using it for maybe more of the shallow reasons, and then I started really feeling some deep healing out of it, and that really started propelling me in a completely different way. So it kind of made me a little bit more of a conscious entrepreneur. So then I started diving into what is a conscious entrepreneur, and that's when I realized I wanted to help people be more conscious with their businesses and with their lives and really support them on their own psychedelic journeys. Because it is therapy, in my opinion, and or it can be utilized as a therapy and you can see a lot of amazing results as long as you have such support. And so yeah, now I kind of do therapeutic coaching where we figure out what mental blocks you might have in your business and and in your life. And then we kind of work through them with a couple of different modalities that that I've learned. So that's, that's what I'm doing now. And I absolutely love it. And what is a conscious entrepreneur? So a conscious entrepreneur is definitely an entrepreneur that cares about what their business is doing to the planet, to the community around them, how it's affecting their lives. So I know when I was an entrepreneur, I was like really red lighting myself and like pushing really hard towards these like really like random goals that were mostly focused on money and not really like enriching my life or giving me a really good experience while I'm on the planet. So I think that a conscious entrepreneur actually asks a lot of important questions like, how are my products? Like actually, are they green or are they potentially causing harm to the environment? Or is my marketing really making people feel bad about themselves rather than just offering a solution or maybe even making them fearful? Like, how is my work life balance working out? Like does my family feel like I'm never here or that I'm always stressed? And so, yeah, a conscious entrepreneur. Entrepreneur to me is just someone who is a little bit more aware of how they're impacting the world around them and their own lives. Thank you. Yeah, I feel like this is a super amazing and interesting topic for this group, I would say, because the different perspectives of the generations and stuff like that, I imagine with some entrepreneurs there might be some hesitancy or roadblocks or I mean, could you speak a little bit about that? Yeah, I was actually wondering if if your grandfather had any experience, the psychedelics in the past. But yeah, I mean, entrepreneurs, they they're really stressed people. They have a lot on their shoulders. They need to be super creative. They have to wear multiple hats. They have to put themselves out there and feel confident enough to put themselves out there. A lot of times you have like imposter syndrome or you have these blocks about worrying about what people are going to think or of failure. And those are really rooted from past experiences that really just need to be like healed or wiped clean. So you can actually go out and do what you want to do in in a more creative and confident way. So most entrepreneurs have the same mental block state as have like a different flavor of it. I feel like, oh sorry, go find us. Now is just. Well, one of my first questions was like when she was saying using it from like a shallow like using psychedelics as a from a shallow point to more of a depth way. But she's explaining it so I would just like I see because it seems like there's way more depth like yeah yeah. No you're right. That's such a good point. I didn't really like clarify what I meant by shallow and I don't mean it as like you're shallow if you're doing them for these reasons. It was just like I only thought that it was going to help me like this. And then it helped me like so much lower. So what I originally was interested in was like clarity and focus and stress management and creativity, like kind of what all of the Silicon Valley guys were touting to be effects of this kind of stuff. But I had no idea how much it was actually going to, like, heal my my past and heal some of the limiting beliefs that I had. So that's why I think that they're so successful with everyone now, is because they really get to the root of the problem. As long as you're being, like, really conscious about how you utilize them, you're really doing them in a, in a therapeutic way with some support. You can really, really move some, some big blocks that you might have. Well, Biju, can you give me an example of a block? Yeah. So abundance block is like huge, like the worthiness of am I worthy of of money? Can I even really make that kind of money? Like I had never had an example of that, like my parents never did the people around me don't. Who am I to think that I can? There's something wrong with me. Like people will find out if I put myself out there or who am I to think that I can be that accessible? Or There's too many other people out there already doing this and I'm not that special or it's too hard and I'm going to fail. So I might just like stay in this safe place like all of those blocks typically come up and people aren't even always aware of them until we start asking some, some questions. And then typically when they're especially under the influence of this like mind opening substance, you can really find a lot more answers. Like, for instance, some people will have an experience when they're young. Like someone might have told them something and they obviously didn't mean to hurt them. But maybe like a coach or a teacher or someone at their church said something to them and it was like they were a sponge at that point and they really like embody that belief, but then they haven't really thought about that in a long time, but it's definitely something that's still affecting them. And so like finding those like psyche feeds and like uprooting them is a really interesting thing to do. MM Do you have any or a lot of clients who are very sort of interested, but they're scared of the stigma or whatever? I feel like there's so much even with pot, but um, mushrooms and LSD specifically, like a lot of healing properties. I know Portland, Oregon just had something, but the, the studies always got shut down and I, I've had one experience personally, but I'd love for you to talk about your personal clients. Yeah, well, studies are happening more and more. And even like big organizations like Johns Hopkins just got a lot of money from the government to test like these trials on people to see the benefits of it. So that's a really amazing thing in a positive direction, but that's why I kind of love Microdosing because it's a very like approachable way to to to kind of dip your toe in and not kind of buy into the, the, the way that the media maybe has been presenting them for, for so long. So people typically feel much more in control when they start with Microdosing and then they start seeing like major benefits from it and they start really trusting the mushrooms and mushrooms are so, so, so safe. Like there there are like zero chances of you becoming addicted to it or going to the hospital or overdosing or anything like that. So people really get comfortable with them pretty fast and then they might start dabbling in like deeper healing experiences. But a lot of the clients that I work with, they might have had this like weird experience in college where they like took way too much while they were drunk at a concert and it was like way too much stimuli. And all of this was like unraveling inside of them. And they got really almost traumatized by that experience. And so they have to, like, ease their way back in and realize how important it is that you're, like, supported in a really comfortable environment with a really deep intention before you kind of start working with these things. Because, I mean, you do have to respect them. They can be extremely powerful. And that's why it's really important to work on dose and strain and all that stuff. Mm. And yeah, Phines? Um, I guess. Oh, do you, do you help with that, you know, like you do. So there are certain strains like there is so many different types of psilocybin mushrooms and it's like almost over 200. And some of them are much more appropriate for like super deep dove trips where you're completely laying down, not talking really inside of your own psyche. And then there's others where they're more appropriate for maybe you to do a couples trip with your partner and talk and have a nice time or for you to microdosing with because it's like a lighter, smoother, more euphoric type strain. And so depending on what your past experiences, what your goals are, and who you are as a person like your physiology, it's nice to pick a strain to start with and then maybe like change strains to see if you like those better. But I always try to help consult people until like, what's the right strain for you? Let's find the right dose for you that you can actually do your normal life on. So like you can still drive, you can still be of a father or a mother, and you can still do your zoom calls. You can still do everything. It's as light as like a cup of coffee. But it is still like reconnecting your neural pathways and helping you with your stress management and all of that stuff. So there's just different doses that are really appropriate for what you're trying to do. Wow. Hmm. Um, thing about the blockage thing, too. And I guess my question is how they get there. I know this is a hard quit. I mean, I'm hitting like, a, like, um, what, what? What's what's your thought on, like? And this is a really vague question, so I'm sorry because I know everyone has blockages for different reasons and stuff like that, but do you do why do you think they're there? Why do you think why do you think they come up? I know you brought some of them to you. I mean, you said, you know, experiences, but. That's a really good question. Actually, no one's really given me that chance to answer. So I appreciate that. And we associate a lot of people when I ask them if they have any past traumas, they think a trauma is something crazy, like a car accident or someone tried to kill them or like a sexual assault or something like that. But in all actuality, a trauma is anything that actually traumatized your system. So it could have been as simple as like a bully said something to you or you were extremely embarrassed when you try to give a speech or something like that. So we all have traumas and we aren't really like given the tools to process those, especially at a young age. And so those get trapped in our bodies. Like there is a ton of great books about this, like the body keeps the score and our bodies actually hold on to that tension. And and it's a defense mechanism. It it helps us learn to stay alive. So if you were an animal and you learned that that type of animal was going to hurt you or that type of experience was going to hurt you, your muscle memory, everything about you would remember that. So you didn't experience that again so that you like would stay safe. We still have those same reactions. And so if you had an embarrassing experience giving a presentation in second grade and it really traumatized you, like it made you feel like really shitty, it can affect you being a good speaker when you're older, you know what I mean? So like, those are the deep seated traumas that we have that we need to process because we're no longer in that environment. We're no longer those people. And so we have to let go of those things that are no longer serving us. MM This seems like why the importance of some support there as well. Okay. I see. Yeah. And how do you best besides coordinating the dose and stuff like go through the experience like what does a typical session with a client on a first time. Because I imagine, um, yeah, I'm thinking back to my class presentations, but bringing that up in a meaningful way is probably quite difficult or a trip, you know. Yeah. And that's why I love it so much. It's so intimate. Like I love working with people in such deep ways because it feels so fulfilling for them to, like, find that, oh my God, I haven't thought about that in forever. And yes, I still have a reaction to that. And now I know what to work on and I have clarity on what's blocking me or at least one of the things, right? So it starts by me asking them a lot of questions on like a discovery call to get to know them and to understand what they think their limiting blocks are. But definitely when I do my sessions and I ask a lot of leading questions, we find out that it's actually something much deeper than that. And it's kind of like a tree, almost like there is this root of something that happened and then all of these other issues stem out of it. So I definitely ask the body. So that's why a lot of times talk therapy doesn't work for people because they like they talk about it over and over and over again and it doesn't really like move that out of their body. So like somatic healing is actually like moving energy out of your system. So getting back to that animal that is being like attacked by a lion, if you've ever seen an animal on like one of those natural geographics when they're running away from a predator and they actually get away, they shake they like shake off the stress. And we don't really have something like that or not taught that. So we have all of that locked up in our bodies. And if we have too much of it, I believe that that's when we start getting depressed and anxious and maybe even have our own immune disease. So it really like relieving those and getting those out of the body. Your body wants to tell you what's wrong. We just never ask it. We just always let our brains like rehash things and talk about things until we're blue in the face. But there's a lot of times when I ask people how they're feeling when we talk about a situation that we know might be a little bit triggering or allow them to envision their higher selves, and when they scan their body, if there is a part of them, that goes no way. Now where they get like super sad in a certain part of their body, we actually like go into that part of their body and ask that part of their body like, why are you feeling this way? Like what happened to make you feel this way? Why are you trying to protect yourself from these experiences? And it's, it's crazy. But we get so many amazing illuminated answers out of like, just asking the deeper part of ourselves or like the inner child part of ourselves or the body part of ourselves. These questions and I mean, it blows people's minds that it was so easy for it to come out and all they had to do was ask the right part of themselves. Yeah, I'm sorry is blowing my mind because where was born mine is. You're talking about like your body acts this way, your mind when like your mind and body is one thing, but it's like the rest of the block is thing. You're talking about though is like it it can be one thing, but there's still like parts that are blocked because of safety, whatever, whatever, which makes them feel like, I don't know, I don't know, I'm trying to mull it over myself. So I'm like, I know. I hear what you're saying, right? There's a mind. It's my body X my body shake it off. And I'm like, there, there one and the same thing in there. But this is, this is what I'm clicking with the blockage cause I'm like I but they're not connected because. Yeah, I mean, we use our body as like storage like areas. So like in Chinese medicine, for instance, they believe that depending on what you have wrong with you, like if you have liver disease or you're a heavy drinker or you have like heart attacks or you have migraines or you have weak joints, they believe that that's associated with like a mental issue that you're not, like relieving or working on. And so I've kind of seen a similarity from my work, but I don't know enough about Chinese medicine to like, really understand if it's like, like matching up completely. But yeah, I definitely would say that there are different aspects. Like I hold my anger in some parts of my body, I hold my stress like in my hips, I hold my sadness in my heart like we do hold some of our emotions in different parts of our bodies. Mm hmm. Yeah. What does it feel like for someone new to this? Like one of your typical clients? Like the actual trip itself. Right. Especially when you're going into the more emotional areas. So it depends on the dose like a certain dose is just like something that would be double of my per dose. So like I said, micro doses are like very light. You should be able to go about your day. No problem. But a session dose dose just makes you a little bit more emotional. Like it helps you bring down your walls a little bit. You're a little extra sensitive and a little bit more just focused on on what we're talking about. And you can actually visualize a lot better. So you can either visualize a past issue that you had or you can visualize a future self that you want to embody. But they they sometimes experience like yawning ness because like we purge energy in different ways, like big yawns or like shivering or crying or stuff like that. Is our bodies just like purging emotion and energy. So they might experience some of that during the session, but it's really like they're just very sensitive. That's why it's important that it's like quiet and where they feel very safe and we're like opening them up. But if you're talking about a big trip, like facilitating a big trip, I mean, anything could happen on a big trip. But a lot of times it's at first your body is like so used to feeling in control all that it like doesn't want to let go and it doesn't want to let go of that feeling of being in control. So it might feel like you're about to blast off like what a rocket looks like before it goes away. And so that's like how they might experience it. And then once they surrender and they, they go either in or up, they kind of experience it's euphoria or bliss or maybe even deep emotion where they get to like, process and like cry in a way that they have never let themselves cry in their whole lives or they might envision something that they really need to let go of, that they almost need to like, see again to process. And so that's why it's really important. There's no, in my opinion, such thing as a bad trip. It's a challenging trip. But if you feel super supported and you're mentally prepared for it, it can be, I mean, profound. It can be something that you can change the rest of your life. Yeah, but if you're, like, not prepared and you don't know what to expect and you don't feel like you're in a safe place, then that could be extremely traumatizing. Yeah, I really want to bring Grampa into this conversation. I know that you correct me if I'm wrong. You have the word cyclone, not or something along those lines. And there's a big spiritual aspect to a lot of the work that you do. Yeah. I mean, I personally grew up extremely religious and there was parts of it that kind of somewhat traumatized me, or like I could have traumatized myself with the ideas that I wasn't maybe processing correctly, but I definitely had to heal that. And now I'm much more spiritual in the way that I feel deeply a lot of teachings from a lot of different religions. And majority of them are coming back to my connection with myself and Mother Nature. But it's like a very spiritual experience. Like I talk to the higher power or God or the universe, whatever anyone wants to call it. It is like a religious experience. But you can get to that that trance state with like breathwork or yoga or even sex, like you can get there without all of this, but it's just another tool. But yeah, psycho not kind of just means that someone is interested in mind expansion with typically and a mind altering substances. Yeah. Grampa Well, Biju, when you say mind altering substances, what substances are we refer to? So there's lots of them. There's like MDMA that they're finding is really great for PTSD. What is that call MDMA? I'm sorry. Ever heard of. It? It's there's a lot of terms for it. Like if maybe Molly or the the pure form of ecstasy. But it's they're finding out that PTSD is really like healed with that. So like veterans are really experiencing some deep healing from the MDMA. MDMA is amazing for couples. There's psilocybin and that's actually from mushrooms. And there's LSD, which is acid. MDMA and acid are made in the lab, but like acid was actually synthesized out of the mushroom. And mushrooms are natural. There's ayahuasca, there's ibogaine, there's. But what, Chucho? There's San Pedro. There's tons of things that that you can utilize. Have you tried all these different substances? I've tried a lot. I have not tried ibogaine. Ibogaine is a very intense experience that a lot of people are utilizing. Right now to actually support them in getting off of heroin. And it has an amazing success rate, like incredibly amazing success rate. So if anyone out there listening has as potentially a friend or a family member that's really struggling with heroin, you should watch the the documentary dose eight. It does a really good job of explaining like the treatment you would have to go through. But yeah, she has a really hard time in the movie getting off of heroin and then when one or two doses did the trick, it's pretty amazing. Sure sounds like it. Yeah. Yeah. I was just going to say, we talk a lot about Grampa, sort of sixth sense or sort of. Yeah. Can you get into that? Grandpa. What would you like me to do? The feeling of vibe. Maybe you have and. Yeah, I don't know. I guess I don't have the I'm I call it a high sensitivity. I don't have that filter maybe that that most human beings have. I don't know really what other human beings feel, but I can feel the brainwaves from any living thing. A pretty, pretty large distance could be is something like an animal, a person even above. I feel that brainwaves and I'm assuming, but I don't know the real reason for it. I've been told that it could happen for for a few different reasons. One would be that that my parent wasn't is as sensitive to my feelings. That would be one possibility. And other one is that the use of some drugs may have may have taken away the filtering system. Frankly, I don't know the answer to it, but but I tend to think that drugs are a hypnotic basically. And what what what your experience in life at one stage of your life may be a lot different than what you would experience at another stage of absolute. And I think what you're explaining is a lot of people on their psychedelic journeys, they become much more intuitive then they become much more empathetic and empathic and they can sense a lot more. So you might just have a gift. I've heard all kinds of reasons for those gifts, like from a tear in your aura from the past trauma, or you're just born super psychic. I don't know what your sign is, your birth sign, but there are certain signs. Aries, are you? There is. Okay, but this is an actual physical thing. It's not. It's not, you know, a psychological thing. It's a physical thing. It's just the same as if you touch me and I can feel your touch or of taste or. Yeah. Or cider hearing. And it's a very strong it's a very strong sense. Yeah. It's all energy. Any of you're feeling that's really cool. It's energy you're feeling the energy. You're just like, tuned to it. You're like a radio transmitter that is much more sensitive than most people. Receiver Yes. Receiver. No, that's cool. Yeah. The brain, you know, the brain sends out a a electromagnetic signal. It's a chemical thing, but through the spinal column and it radiates out. In fact, they can measure with prods. They don't have to go inside your brain. Now, they're really interpreting thoughts with that. But I can pick up those brainwaves at a distance. That's all. Well, it's got to do. It's got its negatives and. Positive of that. Yeah. So you said that you've experienced people with similar sort of openness or gifts after the sort of psychotic experience. Yeah, I would say that our world is very it's very stimulating. We like not only might be sensitive because of a lot that's going on in our minds, in our bodies, but also we're just constantly inundated by like sound and light and people. So a lot of times our bodies like shut down in order to be able to focus or to not get overwhelmed all the time. And so we shut down to not only our own emotions and thoughts, but also potentially to how an animal might be feeling or how our partner might be feeling. Because, like, you can kind of sometimes look at someone and tell what they're they're experiencing. But if you're always in your own head and always like rushing around, you're not paying attention to anything. And so I believe that this slows you down enough to be a little bit more observant, and it kind of makes you a little bit more sensitive to the things that you like asked to be more sensitive to or the things that you put your focus on. So yeah, I would say there's been some of my clients that like we're very just like shut us for many reasons. And then once they started opening up a little bit and softening a bit, they were able to like really tell like how their dog was feeling. Like they, they could like pick up that their mom needed them to call her or something like that. Like things just start happening when we're like especially super connected to certain people. We have like cords to them or attachments to them. It can really start like tuning into that kind of stuff. It's really interesting. Yeah. I always wondered if there was a way to get Grandpa to like harnesses power because it seems like something he can't ever turn on or off. And he talks about it quite frequently. And I think it's very trippy and very cool. But, you know, well. It's not something that I have the ability to turn on and off. It's right now you can shut your eyelids and not see, but you can't really shut your ears unless you put something over your head. And it's kind of like that. You don't really I don't really have the control I do to some degree, by the way, I stress my brain, but but basically, it's not something, you know, it's it's a physical reaction to the brainwave. And it's not something that I that I can control. And it can also be very uncomfortable. It can be very uncomfortable because there's a lot of stress in society. So you tend to pick up a lot more in in terms of stress from a person, frightened animal or whatever it is. Then you pick up the the vibes of love and of elation or whatever other kind of thought to what the other creatures having. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Well, but it does help you understand the woman's mind. I'm sure, because the nice or not. I'm very curious. Like, with these experiences that make you more open and receptive, um, does that also open you up to, like Grandpa was just saying about more stress and there's a lot of negativity, right? So, and people closed themselves off to protect themselves. I imagine it's very hard to open up the ego and be open wound or whatever that is, right? Yeah. And what I tell my my clients is that when they first start microdosing, you're much more open to Reprograming. And so you want to be careful what like software you're uploading. So what I mean by that is that when you first take your micro dose, you should be really cognizant of like not turning on super crazy news, not getting into a fight with your partner or not getting stuck in traffic, not doing something super frustrating. You want to maybe like check in with your body, go on a nice walk, meditate, stretch like help your body process energy out of yourself. Like make it a really nice experience. But what it also does is that it shows you where you don't have boundaries in your life. And what I mean by that or at least what changes you need to make in your life. So for instance, like some moms that I work with might be like if I like snapped at my kid the other day and I felt it was like the micro dose and I'm like, maybe does your family have, like, all access to you all the time? Like, do you ever have time by yourself? Like, are you constantly taking care of everyone? And they're like, typically, yeah. And I'm like, I think the mushrooms might be telling you that you need to, like, have mommy time once in a while and you probably won't do that anymore. And, and it's kind of like it shows you where you need to, like, make some changes in your life to where you can be much happier. And that might mean like, I'm not happy at this job or I'm not happy in this relationship or I'm not happy with the lifestyle that I'm leading. And then you need to make changes for yourself because the life that you give yourself with a little bit of clarity is typically a much better life for who you are, or it shows you where you need to feel like sometimes it's just a matter of you healing that wound so you can still be a better person in your current life. So I think that's another reason why working with the coach is really important because that's a lot of questions come up and it's nice to talk through them with someone and understand like, which one is it or is it a mixture of the two and what plan can we make and what changes can you make going forward to where you actually test this theory out or to where you actually start feeling some difference in your life? Mm hmm. Biju, is this a a profession or whatever that is growing? Is it something? Because I've never heard of it before. I know what a psychologist does, a psychiatrist, but I've never heard of this particular. Is this part of of psychology or is it something. Totally. Yeah. So that's a good question. Majority of the schools in the United States right now, you do have to be a practicing clinician or a therapist to be able to go through facilitation training. I believe that you will be in short order, be seeing it just across the board, just because it is a catalyst for faster, more like deep change than just regular talk therapy. I got my facilitator training from an organization in Amsterdam that you only have to have experience like holding space for people or coaching prior. So yeah, I mean you haven't really heard about it yet because it's not fully legal everywhere, but I believe once it is that it will be a very widely known and widely experienced therapy. But but in the in the United States now right now, marijuana is becoming legalized in some states and possibly will be in the in the federal system as well. But these other drugs I don't know. You know what? So how how are you going to make it a mainstream type of situation if you're dealing with the criminality of the of the drug that, you know, it seems kind of it's tricky. Difficult, it's risky and it's tricky. Yeah. And I mean, most people would probably think that I'm stupid for doing it, but I am I'm that passionate about it. It's helped me that much and it's helped my family and my friends that much. And I think that cannabis becoming legalized in the government seeing that you can like they can kind of trust the society with this plant medicine and make a lot of money off of it, that it's making it easier for them to be okay with the legalization of other substances. So for instance, Decriminalize Nature is an organization that's doing a really good job of moving it up in legislation pretty quickly. So there are states or main cities that it is decriminalized, which is awesome. And like Maps Organization, which is a huge organization, is really working on all of the studies to prove that MDMA should be legal or at least in a in a clinical setting or a therapeutic setting. So I think in just a few years, we might see that the drugs or plant medicines that are actually much safer, legalized. So I don't think we'll ever see things like coke or meth or heroin or anything like that legalized just because they are dangerous and people have had their lives ruined or lives taken from those substances, whereas the ones that are not as habit forming and that are therapy are probably going to have a much easier time getting up in legislation where changes will be made. But but as a as called a medicine, even a psychologist can't prescribe any kind of drugs. It has to be a a clinical I mean, a psychiatrist. So is that how are you going to get around that in your in your practice? That's basically what I'm saying. Yeah, that's a great question. So currently there are some churches like you can get sanctioned as a church. You do have to go through a lot of steps, but the US in some capacities can't tell the church what sacrament that they're not allowed to use. So there are like mushroom churches where people can actually like buy and utilize in the states or cities where it's legal or decriminalized. If they do take it and say only like a psychologist or psychiatrist can can prescribe this, then I do think that there will be such a huge demand for it that might need to get prescribed it. But then they have a facilitator actually help them with that. I don't actually know what's going to happen. It's kind of the Wild West right now. And if that's the case, then potentially my clients would just be getting a prescription, but then I would just be coaching them. So I still am a coach. I still either help them with their personal relationships with themselves or with their businesses. So just my experience with plant medicines can make me more equipped to handle them, like support them during their psychedelic journey, whether or not they get it from someone that is selling it illegally or they get it from a psychiatrist. Yeah. What I may be a little behind the times, but when you say that the government can't control what the church does, I've now it may be some time ago Indian American Indians would use I think peyote was one of the drugs that they did. But but they were not they were stopped by the government and they were it was considered a religious thing that they when they used the peyote. But but the federal government still stopped them. I only did and I'm going back several years ago. I remember reading about it and hearing about it. Yeah, it's so anyhow, I guess we're kind of dwelling on the, on the legal aspect of it, which is really not what. You're well and the pharmaceutical companies are popping out oxy in great fashion war and the war on drugs, you know, a horrible background and history. And it's like we're still in the after effects and main effects. Yeah. And to be honest with you, I am a little bit concerned about the fact that they're already trying to synthesize it to be able to put a prescription on it. So you might not have the effects of like the psychoactive effects, but you might benefit from the depression that might be cleared out from it. But my opinion in working with it, I think that the it should be left in its natural state because I believe that mushrooms are intelligent and they give you what you need and that synthesizing it out could have some issues like we've seen with some other plant medicines that have been synthesized out. And if you're like making a facilitator or a psychiatrist perform these these experiences in like a white room with like no experience themselves, with just a blindfold on and no, like, ritual or ceremony to it, you're really missing out on a deeper experience. But whatever it takes to get this in, more people, I kind of am just surrendering to the fact that I think our ourselves as a society will see so much benefit from it no matter how it's utilized. But it's only a matter of time before we see that they kind of just like like synthesize it to figure out how to make money off of it and then put strict laws on being able to to prescribe it out or how you utilize it. And that makes me really sad because right now psilocybin is so easy to grow. Like, for instance, cannabis is actually a really big wreck on the environment. It's like taking a lot of water out of certain areas and really affecting some of our agricultural world. And not to say there's anything wrong with cannabis, but there are some big impacts to it, whereas a family could grow a box of mushrooms in their closet for very, very cheap, like under $100. And it would be enough for the whole family to be able to use and their neighbors and whatever for a whole year if you're microdosing and that's like so inexpensive and so empower thing. So I really hope that that's more of a, of a vision that we hold in the future. Well, I've got so much to say. Well, okay. And I think I start with. Hmm, okay. I know lots of things when you guys hit on a lot of it too. But what I was thinking was watching it, I mean, listening to you guys was like all the drugs that we use now every day and then you're talking about connecting to your feelings, but maybe thinking of being like, hypersensitive, which makes me think of like ADHD and also like dyslexia and, and different like mental illnesses that people have that people give drugs for to kind of like hemp hemp or that which I wonder why that is. But I, I think that was really getting to me is I hate capitalism. That's why. Yes, because, you know, I kept thinking like even what you were saying about, being to feed a family with with the love of shrooms for $100 doesn't seem very profitable for the system that were in it, even for like your job. Not no disrespect to it, but what I think is really profitable about pharmaceutical companies is that they're that they they're going to bring you back. And that's why I also think that lots of things are legal that are sellable on the counters because they know you're coming back because they can make money off of it. Things that you take it once and you're you you're woke. It doesn't seem like it would be very it didn't seem like it would work in the American like algorithm. So it it does seem like you kind of stacked against maybe like a well. Yeah. So it actually won't affect me in the sense that I have worked on my abundance luck and I believe that there is enough people in the world that can afford my services or my ability to support them. But I am not worried about the entire world growing their own mushrooms. In fact, I would love it. It would be like the best day of my life if everybody learned how to grow their own medicine. And you're right, it's probably been illegal for a really long time because it does help with addiction. It does help you get off of SSRI as it did really help me get off of my Adderall issue. Like it really a lot of problems that are making a lot of people rich. And so that's why I think they're probably really struggling with making it legal or they're trying to figure out a way to make money off of it. So only time will tell what's going to happen, but unfortunately that for them is that one of the side effects of mushrooms is you become more conscious and more woke and much more empowered and in love with yourself, which really hurts the capitalist world. I mean, everything is very weak right now because it's not sustainable. Like things are going to crash down when big changes are made. And I think it's necessary, unfortunately, even though it's going to be very hard. Yeah, it doesn't look too hopeful the way you're describing the future. And it. Sounds good. And yeah, you never know what's going to happen. If you got a. True case of I. Mean, I don't think I'll be all right. I think you I mean, I think it's a big the hypersensitive part is interesting because the talk you talk about is a positive thing, which it is. I appreciate it. But then as a maya growing up as a person, I think that when I hear of someone being hyperactive or hyper, whatever, whatever, whatever, we tend to like that. That's I don't know. And so even when I did mushrooms, the one the one experience I had, the shed, the ego, it was so like shockingly difficult when I had consciousness of what that even meant. And now that it's been a while, I'm like, Man, it it's just so hard to let it go and just be, you know, cool or. Whatever. Yeah. It's not a one and done. It's not easy. And that's why it's not habit forming. You don't want to do that all the time. But I will say that if you are concerned about being too sensitive, that taking it before you go to bed helps you process and stuff and work out some stuff while you're asleep, and then you can be totally fine the next day. Or sometimes people will just do really big trips periodically, like they might do a really big trip with their partner, or they might do a really big trip for clarity or for healing purposes. Like maybe they lost someone that they loved and they want to really grieve. Like you can use it in specific like defined times where you can open up and be extremely sensitive and like hyper aware of things for a short amount of time. But then you can like come back to a place where you're able to resource yourself a little bit more because you have a knowingness, so you actually come back much stronger. The ego is not a bad thing we don't have to kill the ego, we just have to retrain the ego. So the ego is telling you this story about yourself that you get very attached to and you have to be able to step away from your self. Far enough with psychedelics is an easier way to do it of of seeing yourself and seeing if this story is really serving you now. It's something that you've developed your whole life and maybe you had a harder upbringing or maybe you had experiences that that shouldn't be dictating who you are with your partner or at work or wherever it is. So it's really important that you have the vision of what needs to be changed. And then work on it with small habits that really support you over time. So I think that that's why a big a side effect of it is like you feel so much more connected, like you feel connected to nature, you feel connected to your community, you feel more connected to yourself and I personally think that that's what's going to save the planet if if people get a little bit more brave. I know it is like you have to be brave to try it, but if someone helps you and holds your hand and gives you the right dose, that's appropriate for you and you ease your way into it and you just start playing with how you can utilize it as a true tool. Most of the tools that we use right now are deadening tools that are just ways for us to put Band-Aids on things or numb out or zone out or cover the pain. But that's why we keep coming back for those things, because they don't really work. They don't fix the root of the problem. And so that's why mushrooms work for so long. Like there are studies that are showing of life studies where like someone gets a terminal diagnosis, they find out that they're going to die. And that is a very stressful thing for an animal or a human to to know is coming. So typically people who get that feeling have a really hard time the rest of their existence. Right. And that's not that's not great. You shouldn't be, like, worrying about everything so much for the next, like six months that you have left on the planet. So they might do a big like a trip in a, in a clinical setting. And just that one trip is enough to be like, I'm at peace with like letting go. I want to give my family all my love and attention while I'm still here. I'm so grateful for my existence. Like, let me do all the fun things that I want to get out of the way. And so like that one trip sometimes can be enough for like two or three years. Like, you never know. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah, I know. I think you answer my question to the not even about being afraid of being a hyper sensitive. Just why is it looked at so negatively and like in our society a little bit. But it does make sounds like that because if you get a bunch of hyper sensitive people, that means they are responsible for things, you know, like a little bit like, like, oh, hey, hey, I'm a woke up now I have to like do things and maybe we don't like doing that. So we're like, I might as well not think about pain. Yeah. I'm. I'm glad you brought up the death thing, because it's been on my mind as a question that I really wanted to ask you, because I, a long time ago read one of the studies about how it cured death anxiety completely and like a huge portion of people. And it's something that I a few years ago I like lost faith and sort of my belief of an afterlife went away. And since then, periodic. But it's been getting sort of worse. I've been, you know, even though I'm relatively young, whatever, very scared. It's like in the back of my mind a lot. And something where it's like just talking with a therapist, it doesn't feel very helpful. And it goes in circles a lot because it's that's the thing I had. It's the big thing. I'd love to hear your personal experience with any of what I just talked about. And also, I don't know, I was even debating like maybe that's something that would completely help and I don't even know of another option that might. Right. So yeah, I mean, talking about the thing, you're right isn't moving enough to like really feel your feelings or like come to terms with it or have some peace. But I will say that at the root, root, root, root, root of every issue that we have, like, am I going to get exiled for my opinion, that means certain death, like back in the day, am I going to be able to support my family and myself? That could mean death, right? I could be so sad that I lost this partner. I could be heartbroken. That feels like death. That feels like I'm dying. Like all of it is this fear of death. And obviously we have that because, like, it's a survival method. It's it's very scary. It's the scariest thing. But I will say that I've become so much more at peace with some of those ideas that the the power that the fear had over me has dissipated so much that I no longer, like, worry so much about what my community that is being super judgmental thinks about me. Like when I'm on my deathbed, am I going to be like, Oh, that aunt? Like, really hated that post that I posted about my friend was on Instagram. I shouldn't have done that. No, like I have a reframing of things that is, like, not so worried about am I going to be able to eat, like Am I going to be light? Is am I going to be okay? It's much more of an empowerment that I feel like I can take care of myself and I'm much less worried about like what death is going to be like. Now my focus on is how am I going to live to my fullest? Like instead of being scared of going out of that cave because you could die. I can't stay in the cave because that's not enough of a life, right? So like thinking about it and saying cave as like if I was a cave man, right? So yeah, you'll probably be safe in that cave. You're probably going to have to eat like rats and you're not going to see the sunset. So like, yeah, you lived safely for a lot longer potentially, but I had a better life because I was out there being chased by seabirds. This tiger is in potentially enjoying part of it, you know what I mean? So that's kind of like the reframing and the vision that I had about that. And and so I think that that's a thing that is very empowering to people, is that they get a lot less worried about the what is negativity. They're more about the what, what can I do, what's possible, like, what can I give myself as a guest while I'm still here? Yeah. Grandpa And when I was just going to say I have a weird philosophy, most people would not accept it. But I believe that reality or consciousness is all being created by the mind, by the Creator. And we're basically puppets of the mind. We don't really have control. We have the illusion of control, just like the illusion of reality. That's what life is. That of course, everyone has, or most people, I think, have a fear of the unknown, you know, you know, even walking out of an elevator or into an elevator that somebody might be in there, you don't know. And especially the afterlife. Is there an afterlife? And if it is, what it's going to be like and all this and that. So, I mean, these are normal human emotions and I don't really, truly believe that anybody really knows. I mean, obviously, the religious people think they know, but I'm not so sure that they do. I just don't think that anyone really knows the the afterlife. Yeah, I love that you brought that up because that's the exact sentiment that I have, is like, why am I so worried about what I don't have control over? Like, I don't know if there is an afterlife. So just in case there's not, I better live it up and enjoy myself now and not do any harm. Right? Don't hurt anyone. Don't don't do any harm to her if there is a hell, you don't end up there. But those are the things like we we have all these boxes that keep us all in these lines because we were told these stories that are really affecting how we feel about ourselves, how we feel about others, how we feel about our lives. And there's so many people that are like in these tight little boxes because they're thinking that they're going to enjoy life once they die or they enjoy themselves once they die. And you're like, What if there isn't an afterlife? What if you just come back here to learn the lessons that you didn't learn before, you know, and really knows the answer to that. So you might as well like have fun while you can, or at least experience deeply. I like your jacket. Thank you. It's it's balance. I like. I like really into balance lately because. I like it. Um hmm. I caveat my my. I'm here for it. Here's my, here's my like. Okay. Though. And, and this makes me think I'm just sorry. I'm just coming off thinking about it. When you're getting coaches and people that are supporting you through this, there are some realities that people are stuck in. Like I think about what you're saying, like, yeah, consciousness. I can live this, I can. I shouldn't be fearful this. And then I'm giving a shot but claps because of the color of their skin, which is something they can't really get out of. So I, but I do like what you're saying with like you can gear towards something that's not fearful base and more towards dealing with it. But I how do I, I'm trying to figure out how to articulate my question. Hmm. Yeah, I guess. And I guess I'm wondering how many people of color that are, that are able to coach and support people that are going through that, like really real life, like all the because I understand the idea about this is a not a real, you know, whatever is my outlook, but that can be also looked at as a very privileged way of looking at things sometimes in a sense that there are real like actual. Yeah. Concrete things that will hurt me or hurt people. Yeah. No, that's that's a very, very good point. So my, my take on that is, so let's say the society around you is projecting on to you, it's saying that you're probably going to commit a crime or you're probably this you're probably that that projection onto you does affect you. It does affect like what you think you're capable of. It does affect what you think that your worth it does affect a lot, right? So that is reprograming that needs to happen. So I believe that like we owe it to anyone that our society has wronged in that way to help reprogram the fact that they are like valuable. And that's a lot of healing that needs to be done. And then at the same time, like I believe that first responders need to be doing psychedelics as well because they see a lot. They're typically some of them might be from a very violent home themselves. And that's why they chose to be in that career. So they have that type of power, whereas some of them are very like wanting to protect and they have these narratives in their mind, like you never know what's going on, but we all need to be much more connected and much more healed. And I think that that would make a huge difference. But you're right, like a lot of what I'm saying is from a very privileged position. And I think that that's why there's so many awesome organizations right now that I'm really interested in what they're doing. And it is for the that the people that need extra support or that need access to this medicine and need to be working with people that know what it feels like and and can support them in coming up and out of like the shit that everyone's been putting on. Everyone you know what to I ha moment because you know I was thinking like, you know, who am I to say it because I'm sitting here in America talking and talking on a podcast. So, you know, I'm also very privileged myself. So I'm thinking like, how could I call someone that has literally has these really real restraints? But that's the cool thing about it being so cheap that someone can probably grow it and use it any any time, you know. So that's, that's pretty cool. Yeah. And I will say, I think that's why a lot of people utilize cannabis so much for alcohol because it is numbing to the pain that everyone's really feeling in real time. And that is a beautiful thing. It's it's a way to kind of like, not have to experience this trauma all the time. But I will say that some of the medicine, it makes you turn around in yourself and heal the parts of yourself means that you don't have to numb to existence all the time, that you can actually, like experience much deeper and and from a place of more strength and compassion and love. I think that was what was really big for me. Like if you had met me before a psychedelic scene would be like shocked who I am now. Like, I was super capitalistic. I was only focused on money. I was like repellant. So no offense if anyone's a Republican, but as a Republican, I was like a very. That's so they would like to. Ensure that the state that would know that there's nothing wrong with it. That's Republicans. But I was I am a completely different person now. Like I'm much more focused on outside rather than inside. I would say. I have a fear and or something that that bothers me. And that is that I know that an animal is being killed for me to eat meat. Okay. And that really bothers me. And or if there's a mouse in my home, I need to trap it and kill it. And I don't want to kill anything, you know? How is psychedelics going to help me with that? Do you want it to help you with that? I mean, I guess that's the thing is it it does make us much more thoughtful of the lives around us, unfortunately, like I'm with you on that, like I, I live out in the country now. I used to live in downtown Austin and we just moved out to the middle of nowhere. And you see death much more prevalent in nature. And you also have to like unfortunately control some parts of nature. So, for instance, like, you can get an infestation if you don't trust the rats, but like the thought of killing a rat that I've seen in like that cage is just horrendous to me. And I think it's because I'm super sensitive of two things now. And like, I eat less meat if it's ever now. And I don't know, it's it's kind of like being a little bit more thoughtful. Like, for instance, like we have chickens. And if I felt like it was better for the chicken because they're older now and they're probably going to die of natural causes soon, like, do I feel a little bit better about eating them? I don't know. I'm working through all this right now. I don't really have an answer for you, but there are some things that I don't think psychedelics are going to be able to heal, and I think it's for a reason. And I don't claim to know the reason. But do you think you've gotten yourself straightened out your head clear? I think it's going to be a lifelong journey, constantly, like breaking myself down and rebuilding myself. But I will say I've healed a lot. I can see some major, major points that are proof of my healing. And I think that we have like deep seated issues that we probably need a lot of work on. And it's like a constant, just a job almost I feel like my main job in life is to make sure I'm not an asshole or I'm actually healed in. But then that's not to say that life is constantly stressful and new. Big things are coming and affecting me all the time. So I will say I'm so much more healed, but I do not have my shit together completely yet and I don't know if I ever will, but that's kind of the fun of it potentially. I don't think. I don't know. And he has it all together. But you know you. That is human being. The best in life. It's a matter of survival. Hmm. Totally. Wow. Mm hmm. Yeah, I just, I. I'm just trying to get a hold of my capitalism jokes and, like, so capitalism does have a chance, but I think it's so much. Yeah, it's all interesting. I don't know what the answer is to. To everything or to anything, but. Right now I am seeing some major changes and some major healing. And some people are a lot happier now than when they first started. So that's what I'm going to rest my case on for now. But who knows? You're finding out new ways to to read energy and to read people and to to find out how big space really is. Who knows what we're going to figure out? I mean, I had a vision one time on a psychedelic journey where, you know, those like have you ever seen those videos on Instagram where the microscope zooms really far in and you get to see like the tiny little cell? But it like it was out here, like maybe on a birds bird's feather. Well, like I had this vision, that earth was just like our universe was just a cell, like on a giant foot. And, like, we're, like, so worried about so much that we're just, like, this tiny microscopic cell. And that was like, pretty eye opening to be like, wow, like, don't sweat the small stuff because it potentially could be like microscopic small stuff compared to like aliens. What aliens have going on? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, you're right. Aliens could just be a piece of dirt hitting your giant split that we're all being a part of. Look, honestly, I agree. Yeah. No. Yeah, I remember I was going to. Ask finance is really the was he has a great dry sense of humor. Um, I feel like someone might be microdosing me without me knowing because I have these thoughts all the time, but that just just the fact that the inverse of what you're saying. I was looking up at the stars yesterday and someone, not me. I have the thought like if everybody just went outside and looked at the stars for like half an hour or a night, I think, you know, thoughts would be a lot different. But the fact that just scientifically that we sort of came from whatever this is, right, these little and got bigger and bigger and bigger and that line for every single one of us just is I mean, it's just we and then we get to be conscious like the whole I think a lot of what we're talking about is consciousness and the fact that it's like this gift that we have for this short period of time that like, you know, only very like a blip of earth has ever gotten to experience. I mean, it's a very, um, I don't know why I never have these thoughts, but very recently, all this stuff has become very overwhelming to me. Yeah, I mean, I don't. I can't. It's hard for me to imagine that it's a chance happening, that I don't live right now, that I'm alive with the technology that we have, with this psychedelic renaissance, with the sexual renaissance, like with these revolutions that are going on, like I feel very cold to be immersed in them because it's like, did we choose to be here right now? Like, what? What is the truth it's all very interesting that that we are here with the billions of organisms that are on this planet, even and potentially in space. We are here right now and we are humans. Right. Like to hell. I know. It's it's. Crazy. Trip of all yeah yeah. Life's a trip and emotions just remind you that. Yeah or they did to me at least you. Time before about death you're saying about the reframing for you personally and clients that you've had, but the question of how does it just happen? Or like what is that process of that reframing what what does the trick? Because I've not been able to find that. Um, I will say it wasn't at first an intention of mine. If it had been, I probably would have come to that conclusion maybe faster. But it was a product of my experimentation. And so I can't clearly say this is how I arrived at that, but I will say that there have been times when I was looking for intention with my trips and I definitely got it. I think it's just a byproduct of the fact that we're able to see our connection and we're able to just be so grateful for our existence and for the people around us and for our five senses, for our bodies, for our experiences that we kind of just realized that that that the the important thing that I should be focused on and not the light at the end of the tunnel, you know what I mean? It's like about the journey, not the destination type realization that you get. So it's not a realization about the afterlife or what comes next. It's it it is in the sense that like it's just met. This goes outward. It's just like if you understand it for this week, you understand it for your life in general kind of thing, because it's all just a version, a microscopic and macroscopic version of the same idea. And when you know it so deeply, it's like such a deeply held truth after that type of experience that it just like ripples out and you just understand it as a knowing or a truth across all the plains. Yeah. Sounds like acceptance. I was going to say I figured out, yes, community is something that you've been saying a lot of that at least what I'm taking away from this, because having people to support you through your trip and talking about these ideas and I don't know why I'm stuck on that. Oh, shoot, immigration is one of the most important things. So you see a lot of the woke community, like talking about all the trips that they've done and like they're just like trip happy or just like constantly doing things that you can tell that they're not really integrating potentially. Like there's their trip, they're not giving the trip the amount of time and space afterwards to process it. Because I believe that we kind of we open ourselves like a portal till a higher knowing. And if we don't wait for that portal to close, it's like having too many tabs open almost and you still start downloading more information while you're processing your trip. So like, sometimes people will come out of their trip and they don't exactly remember everything or they can't explain the trip in words, because like the English language or language in general is very limiting. Like there are so many words that we have so many things that are not words for even. So, it's really important that integrate that. So not only do you have to feel like someone is holding space for you that you can like really crack open in that someone's going to be there for you if you need them to, to you really surrender like you really open up, you really like let loose and relax. But then after the fact like that true therapy comes in, like explaining what happened, explaining the knowingness that you have now, explaining the feelings that you're able to process or the visuals that you saw. Like integration is the most important part. So whether or not you do that in journaling or talking to your partners or your friends about it, and there's something to talking to someone who's experienced that kind of reality. Can you guys can like both understand when you can't find the words to explain it? They almost like no because they've been there and it's kind of like when someone's been to war and someone hasn't like you don't know what I've been through, so I don't feel like I can communicate to you my experience and like process that whereas someone else can be like, I know what you experience. Like, let's talk through that. It's that type of thing that you really just need that extra support to really like keep yourself on track. Oh, okay, I'll do my funny joke and then I'll ask my tough question because you're talking about like people not knowing the senses and whatnot. And this shows you how different like this like closing we are because, you know, you can taste something that's metallic, but it's not a part of our like five taste buds, like, you know. So that's weird and limiting, but the hard question is what age do you feel like so much? Just start like busting open that that that reality of, like, all that. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good question. I would say that studies show that when your brain is is done growing, it's potentially a good time to to basically start doing that. And I will say, though, that I know people who really felt the need to support their younger children and by younger mean like teenagers because they were going through some really hard times, like they were suicidal or heavily bullied or really dealing with some heavy stuff and they started microdosing. There are even some communities in the world where mothers microdosing when they're pregnant and when they're breastfeeding because it actually does potentially help the brain grow and develop. And it also bonds the mother and, them and the baby like pretty substantially. I don't know the answer to that. I know that we'll probably figure that out, but from my understanding of how psilocybin especially affects the brain, it doesn't seem like it would hinder any type of growing or developing. But I am not a doctor and I have no real room to speak yet. Would I potentially if I and I'm not going to have kids, but if I were pregnant, I would potentially her dose if if my child was like 15 and really struggling, I would I would put them on micro doses. So that's just me. I think it's a very personal decision. You have to do a lot of research and you have to come to your own conclusions on. But and I've seen people as young as in their teens benefit from that. On the flip side, what's the oldest that you've seen? What's the oldest client you've ever had? So my dad's 80 and. He takes it all the time because it's really great for dementia and Alzheimer's, like your neural pathways reconnecting and yeah, it's really phenomenal for for brain development. So I know a couple of people plus my brother who has had severe like brain trauma or brain injuries and it helps like I had I had really bad dyslexia focus issues. Like I think that it does wonders on the brain. In fact, in my Microdosing guide, I think I have a whole two pages of how it actually works in your brain and it's pretty amazing. So I don't I think that everybody should be microdosing that that's my bias side. Are you referring to psilocybin right now? I am. Okay. Yeah. I think, you know, you go through different stages in life. And for instance, if if you're using, let's say, pot, you might have a heightened sense of sexuality or a music or of or of philosophy or, you know, whatever. And those are the different stages that you go through. You do go through different stages in life and and with with aging and with maturity. So what maybe seems like something at one time in your life where, you know, you think it's like the be all and end all of everything at another stage in your life. It may not be it may not seem the same to you. Totally. Yeah. Yeah, I say that I'm going to be the mushroom mamacita for the rest of my life, but you never know. I never know what's going to happen. Right. And and quite frankly, I knew an individual personally, very close personally, who really had some very in fact, I knew two individuals had very bad experiences. I wouldn't say very bad, but they were bad experiences from just smoking pot. They became animated and eventually had to go under the care of a psychiatrist and got it straightened out. But I've seen you know, I've seen different issues in my life with people. Oh, yeah. I Mean I've had a pretty like not great experience on cannabis as well. Cannabis works in a completely different part of the brain, but especially with a strong some of it is now in even edibles like yeah you definitely have to be a little bit of a mad scientist you have to be kind of brave to to test out the different plant medicines and understand what's best for you or determine that no substance is are right for you and you just want to process things through breathwork and and somatic movement or massage like there's so many different ways that you can support yourself in inhaling. I go ahead. I'm sorry. No, no, no, go. I just want to say I've heard this before from people in your generation that today the the effects or the drug is so much more powerful. I don't believe that. I think that the that the marijuana back 40 years ago was very powerful and, you know, I think it's a generational thing that that every generation feels that this is the generation that has this particular greatest athlete, greatest this great is that you know, it's part of that psychology. I will say, though, that, like like laboratory testing and like hybrids, like using this strongest form of the strongest genetics over and over and over. I mean, when Terence McKenna talked about five grams of mushrooms in a dark room, he didn't have some of the strains that we have now, and he didn't have access to them. They weren't like widely, like findable or prevalent. So I understand what you're saying on that. But there are some things now that would have like melted his face off. And so I don't I don't know if it's like the case with mushrooms, but I definitely have talked to some people that had tried mushrooms a long time ago and then tried some of the things that are available now. And we're very shocked at the strength. Yeah, I mean, who's to say who? Who really even cares? It's all about right now how you are affected by it, whether or not it's stronger now than then. Now can you develop a mail order kit for it? Like, what do you mean. Rooms, mail order to people? Well, once they are illegal, I would love to be able to do that for people. But the mushrooms. Themselves are not illegal. Right. And you're right in the sense that the spores are not illegal. You can anyone can buy spores for scientific purposes to look at the spores underneath a microscope. They're very inexpensive and very easy to purchase. And if you were to then inoculate something and grow it on grain, that's where you've broken the law. But you are correct. Anyone in the entire United States at this point can purchase. I kind of making a joke anyhow. Well. I congeal. To real. For grandpa is grandpa not to say that you have or have not done any drug period right. I'm curious, do you feel hesitancy talking about any personal experience if you were to have them, and if so, why? I would love to have that covered with drugs. I up until I was approximately, I think 36 years old. Yeah, about 36 years old. Then I just totally stopped. And the person that got me started, her name was Rusty Start, but but anyhow, yeah, I've had personal experiences from for probably eight or ten years and I thought, oh my God, this is it. Oh, this will never change, you know, it was a big part of my life. And as I got older, things really changed in your life. You know, you do change. Why do you think that is? Well, if you look at first of all, you start out by looking at the overall situation. In my case, when you smoke pot, it was very harsh on your lungs. I felt that it would be deleterious to my lungs. So that was one reason that I did. I decided to stop and I think I had gotten pretty much everything that I thought I would be able to get out of out of using it. It's like I say, it's hypnotic. It it allows you to focus on on a particular thing and kind of take else out of your out of your brain at the same time. So, you know, in my case was started out as a sexual thing, a musical thing, and then then it turns into a mechanical thing, philosophical. So you go through different, different stages. But at some point, I guess for in my case, I just decided to stop doing it. That's all. I promise. I'm teasing, but I'll make this joke anyway. But you're just like, once you start it, once you start hearing the Beatles walk in and talk and filling other things in your jaw, you're like, This is too much. I've gone too far, but. I. Was at about 36 and you're like, This is a little man. I've done it. No, but you you did mention all of. Their writings and music. They were high. I think Phines is talking about real Beatle like Beatle Beatles. Right? You real Beatles. I'm talking about. I'm just doing that like your own going. Your ongoing thing, like you hearing you being able to hear everything in in my mind I'm Barton at 36 and going, oh my God, I just heard a Beatle helped me. And I was like, I'm done with this. I'm done taking this stuff. But it never stopped. Right? You know? Yeah, but you did you did mention a bit of hesitancy not on talking about it, but talking about your own personal experiences with that. And you still have an answer. I'm very curious, Grampa, why that is. I don't know. I think I have discussed it. I mean, I, I don't get into the specifics, but I had a situation, as I mentioned, with another individual who just from marijuana in the beginning of the IT for probably a year became a very animated character, almost like, you know, comedic with her physical motions and everything and then became psychotic. And literally you could not get to her. I mean, she was in a different world with the psychosis and then through I guess, therapy with a psychiatrist got straight down. So I mean there. But as far as my personal I had I think I learned a lot from the use of and I've done a number of different drugs, but I just have no need for them anymore. I just don't have a need for them. I mean, I do I'm not trying to speak for your grandpa here, but I do think there's a real reason not to be done with it. Are to stop doing it if you especially. Sorry, Grandpa, I'm trying to speak for you, but when it's not like it was, the fact that it's even commercial is new. But in your life where you're. You're a grown person with a family and you have a reputation and there's so much backlog behind it, I can see why people shy away from it a certain age or a certain time because you have, quote unquote, responsibilities in this world where, you know, they can put you in jail. But I feel like this is what I wanted to talk about with B.J. is because I feel like all of it is so especially hallucinogens are so, like, stigmatized. Right. And I feel like they're at a I don't know when they put a stop to the studies, but if it was 40 years ago, 60 years ago, I feel like there's a lot of like mental health as well as, I mean, stuff that we were talking about that is so beneficial. And yeah, I don't know, it's like sad to me. It's like what what finance said is very relevant. You know, there's just there's a stigma to it and you know, and especially more so 40, 50, 60 years ago than today. But but that's a good point that you made famous, that, you know, there is a stigma. And because Brandon asked, why am I somewhat apprehensive about discussing it? Um, well, I, you know, I mentioned what I did, and that was a long time ago. What do you think? Did you. Yeah, I mean, it's I was not letting anyone know what I was doing for almost five years before I became public about it. And yeah, and there's a lot of stigma and still having family members like really upset with my decisions and, and I understand, I understand that they're worried. I understand where they're coming from. But it's it's just something that I'm I'm passionate about. And it makes me want to take the risk because I feel like it's just a matter of bad PR and I understand it. I mean, if you think about it, they bring this in to clinical testing and you do look crazy when you're on some like say psychedelics. Like you are processing a lot and and it could be like, oh my God, I just like cried so much for good. That was so intense that clinicians could look at that and girl, that is a psychotic episode. And that person went crazy for a minute and and it just looks so insane sometimes and especially if someone isn't prepared for it, that no wonder maybe they thought we need to save people from this or maybe they did see that it helped expand the mind and made people less willing to go to war. It happened right when people were saying no to going to war. It was the hippies that were doing all the mind altering drugs that said if you are not going to fight. And that's kind of when the government went, this is a dangerous choice and you're going to claw your face off and jump out of a building if you do this. And so who knows what the real reason is, but it's finally getting some of the PR and some of the testing that I think that it deserves. Because, I mean, on the scale of of safety, like they find that people are like hospitalized for table salt more than they are for psychedelic mushrooms. So it's a safe thing, in my opinion, if you do it right. But yes, you're right. It could be traumatizing if you if you are not prepared and in the right situation. But it's getting a lot of publicity at this point. And I think that's kind of why I became a little bit more comfortable with talking about it, just because I finally had some reputable universities or organizations that were were saying the same thing that I was. And it wasn't just my experience or just some other people's experiences that I knew. It was it was actually like provable in clinical studies. And so, yeah, that's kind of when I was like, okay, it's something that I've been talking about in an underground situation for a really long time, but now I'm ready to like kind of come out about it and want to support people on their journeys as well. I think that's amazing. It you're high everything. Some sometimes seems very profound and then when you're not high, you look back at what, what you know, your thoughts were and whatever. And sometimes it might be profound, but it might be kind. Of what you're talking about. Weirdo, grandpa. Stupid or whatever. Pardon? You talking about marijuana? More so now? I am. Yeah, but I've. I've done other drugs. I mean, I don't know that you can do very much other than just take everything. And when you're on, say, acid, you know, whatever. Yeah. I mean, I will say, like, there have been times when like I could use the example of I was on something and I went to a concert or I watched a movie and I was like, Oh my God, that was the best thing I ever saw or heard in my whole life. And then I listen to it sober. I'm like, Hmm, this is a hit the same way. And is that really that that wasn't very good or was it that I am not as open to all of the sensitivity and the the emotion that it might have brought up to me? I don't know, like coming back to a normal state means what it means, maybe a little bit of a closed off feeling because you're dealing with real life and you're stressed and you're like, it loses its luster. Like I will say that when I mean. GROSS All of the little things looks so much better to me. Like outside looks glittery and and my dogs look like that much cuter and like, I just love my partner that much more. And so you're right. Like, it does make you a little bit different. But I would say in my opinion, in my experience, in a good way. And a lot of, you know, great artists, whether they be or writers, have done amazing things with their you know, with their profession when they're high. So it depends on the person a lot and they're. Totally worth. Yeah, I know we're getting close to the end, but I did want to ask you sort of because I'm super interested in this and I feel like a lot of business would be, but the actual progression of the consultation or the sessions or whatever you said, initial call and then how does it sort of go from there? Is this all over Zoom or do you prep people before the trip or how does that work? Yeah, so it typically starts out with a call like a consultation to really understand what their goals might be like, what they're either trying to heal from or what blocks they potentially need to move, or how this medicine can support them. And then based on who they are and what traumas they've experienced in the past, how sensitive they are, what they have going on currently in their life and their lifestyle, what the right strain is, what the right doses. And this is all of my experience, experience to try give them a couple options or ideas to test and I support them on them, like figuring out how to source it themselves. They can figure it out, but they're much more educated in like finding someone near them that is not going to give old product or not going to give them the wrong strain. That isn't appropriate for microdosing or certain certain questions that people are not asking. They're getting mushrooms and they'll either be like, Holy crap, that was really strong. And I'm like, Well, how fresh was it? How much did you take? Which strain was it? Or they might get some like super old product that I mean, they lose their potency over time. So then they might just take a lot and go, I don't feel mushrooms. And they're like, I don't think that's the case. I think they might have been old. And so someone just like helping them figure out what the right protocol and regimen is for them. So like some people want to get off of SSRI is they have a specific ordeal like they have to take more and. They have to potentially do it for six months, whereas normal people can just do it for a three month container. It really just works on figuring out what's right for the nuance of that person, and then if it does turn out that they find their blocks with sessions with me, we can either work on practices that. They can support themselves in moving that block. But sometimes we find something that's so deeply embedded or that they're so invested in onto that you typically have to do a pretty big trip to move that type of block, and in which case they need a facilitator. So we would be able to go to a place where it is legal or decriminalized and do a pretty big trip to move that. And then I help them integrate afterwards. So it's really just mostly about supporting them and making sure they're keeping up with it because I mean, there will be times sometimes where people are like, I'm really seeing amazing benefits, but it is bringing up so much in my life that it would be easier for me just to stop right now. And so that's where the support is really important to just help people stick with it, to really see major changes in their lives. So for the bigger trips, you would sort of be in the room with them during that trip. But the smaller stuff, it's like prep and then they go off on their own and then come back and sort of debrief with you totally. So the sessions are by virtual, they're on Zoom and they typically take a like a double negatives beforehand. So they're much more open. And I try to get them in a really comfortable trance state and ask them a lot of questions and help them visualize some things and help them understand what's going on inside their mind and body. And then I give them practices to be able to utilize to to either heal that or understand it a little bit more, but then similar trips, like if they go and do it with their partner or they go do it for clarity about their business or something like that, I figure that they're there capable of doing it and I explain how they should, especially for smaller doses. But if you get over a certain amount, then I definitely don't suggest that anyone does it by themselves or without a facilitator that has experience in holding space for someone like that. And I find it so cool and interesting that your forte is entrepreneurs and sort of people running businesses and stuff. People always say they're like, Oh my God, 2 hours. But then it flies by and it's like, Darn, there's so much more to talk about and stuff. But yeah, I would say we always do last thoughts in the show and I don't want to keep everybody over, but I would love to just go around and do last thoughts and all that kind of stuff. Finance I don't know. Yeah, it's a shame because I do have a lot to tax. I'm going to try to say it really quick. Okay, you're talking about drugs, stripping out beer. People, people get messed up on all types of alcohol and they and they trip out hard and people in like anticipate that. So I don't see the big deal. But that makes me also think, though, I'm trying to give alcohol a bad rap sounds like too is that we need coaches even when people are at the bar like, hey, if I'm going to trauma maybe then it was another thing. Those are bartenders. Exactly. They're therapist. I'm more they are given drugs. Oh yeah. You're way more. I mean, you're I'm I'm sorry. I'm something I'm not. So you're Pat. But just doing that, you're being super brave because it's to do what you're doing. Oh, in the last one, I read Doors of Perception, and there was this part of this book where they were talking about, like you being on drugs is like not very useful for the mind because, you know, you'll be like looking at like a tree and how beautiful it is when there'll be like a tiger about to fuck you up, you know, and you have to have certain a type of like the reason why we don't take drugs all the time is because of that sense of it. And I guess I guess I understand that. So that's my final thought was thank you for for thank you for all that and thank you. Yeah, you're awesome. On that note, people should read food of the Gods where they talk about stoned ape theory is kind of what you're talking about, but it actually thinks people think that it's the reason why our brains grew so fast. There is no real reason why our brains grew so fast in such a short amount of time. So they think that it might be possibility that that apes ate mushrooms out of the plains and turned into people. I don't know. Just if you're interested in that theory, you should read Fruit of the Gods. It's really interesting. Okay, this. Is real 2001 Space Odyssey. But I've heard it too. It's very accurate. Honestly, order your last. Well, Bijou, you're an unusual guest. Very compelling. I might even start using drugs again after that. We enjoyed having you as a guest. Thank you. Yeah. Need you. I'll. I'll. I'll do mine. I really love your concept because I find it really special that I get to talk to my dad about this and multi-generational. Being able to to express our thoughts and feelings about all of this stuff is, I think, really important. I think a lot of times we get super separated and we can learn so much from each other like a lot of people will only see their their their elders or the youth of their family during like holidays where it's hard to kind of like how these deep introspective conversations. So I love that concept of this show and it did not disappoint. I had such a good time talking to you guys, so thank you for that. Yeah, for me just off of that. Yeah, I never do my it's so cool. I was not nervous but very like curious what this would be like because I feel like you're totally right. Like it was just you and I or something. The hosting like it would just be like, yes, yes. Like a lot of sort of, I don't know, conversation for and then grandpa just I, you know, he was not introduced to this or having this dynamic was one of my favorite episodes we've ever done. This flew by. Very rarely am I like, Oh my gosh, I'm upset because I have so much more. But, you know, maybe another episode soon. You were an incredible guest. I'm so appreciative of your time. Yeah. Yeah. I had a lot of fun and a lot of exploring to do. I might. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So where can people find you? What are your socials? All of that. Both of. You. Yeah, I'm super active on Instagram. I love Instagram. I mushroom mamacita on there and my business is story X style. My this was my website. So story x style dot com and those are majority of the two places I hang out the most. It's it's hard enough to create content for just those two, but I'm really open and receptive to talking to people about all of this. So I love just supporting them with their questions. So Yeah, reach out to me with anything. And then also I don't know if you guys want it, but if your listeners want a code to be able to get my microdosing guide for free, I'll. I'll get that to you guys. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Brandon's computer exploded, so I'm going to. He's he's right here on the phone with me. But that any. Do you have anything to say to us here? Do you have a last word? Thank you so much for coming, Bijou. Very interesting. I learned a lot. Thank you guys for listening. Make sure you subscribe or follow us on your however you listen or watch the show and share this podcast with someone you know that may be interested. And as always. Hear me. Yeah, as always, Grandpa, our Brandon loves you. Okay? Oh, Grandpa. No, no, I love you too, Brandon. Staying with Papa. Rosie, always on your shoulder. This competition, Grandpa Angelo's brought to you by your hosts Brandon Fox, Bart Frank and Phines Jackson. Our producer is Sierra Doss to watch and listen to full episodes of the show and follow us on social media visit grandpa and Jill dot com that's grandpa and chill dot com.