Can Athletes Move Climate Further Than Politicians?

In this week's episode of the Climate Confident podcast, I’m joined by Lew Blaustein, founder and CEO of EcoAthletes, an organisation dedicated to inspiring athletes to lead the charge on climate action. We delve into Lew’s fascinating career pivot, from sports marketing to environmental advocacy, sparked by the events of 9/11 and a pivotal Tom Friedman article on energy dependence and global conflict.

Lew shares the unique influence athletes hold in shaping public opinion and how EcoAthletes works to empower them, providing the tools and resources needed to overcome challenges like misinformation, fear of backlash, and the "too sciency" perception around climate change. We discuss how athletes have led on social issues in the past – from civil rights to gender equality – and how they can bring that same drive to the climate crisis.

A standout topic is the EcoAthletes Collegiate Cup, where student athletes compete to reduce methane emissions by converting exercise into environmental currency, proving that sports and sustainability can go hand in hand. Lew also highlights Vote Climate, a campaign encouraging U.S. voters to make climate a priority in elections.

Whether you’re a climate advocate or just curious about the intersection of sports and sustainability, this episode offers a practical look at how athletes can become powerful agents of change. Listen in to explore how passion, competition, and leadership on the field can translate into meaningful climate action.

Tune in and join the conversation!

BTW - I have to apologise for the quality of my audio in this episode. We had builders in, and so I wasn't in my normally audio treated recording space. I did my best to fix the audio, but you can still realise it isn't up to its normal quality. Sorry.

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Transcript

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Lew Blaustein: 0:03

We are the generation that has within our power, the ability to make a real difference on climate for the better. Two generations from now we may not be able to say that. So I actually look at that as a great privilege, and a responsibility

Tom Raftery: 0:27

Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. This is the Climate Confident podcast, the number one podcast showcasing best practices in climate emission reductions and removals. And I'm your host, Tom Raftery. Don't forget to click follow on this podcast in your podcast app of choice to be sure you don't miss any episodes. Hi everyone, welcome to the Climate Confident podcast. My name is Tom Raftery, and with me on the show today I’ve my special guest Lew. Lew, welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Lew Blaustein: 1:01

Well, first of all, thank you, Tom, for having me. I am the founder and CEO of a nonprofit a global nonprofit called EcoAthletes And our mission is to inspire athletes to lead climate action because athletes are the most Influential humans on the planet, but to this point, they've largely stayed on the sidelines of the climate fight.

Tom Raftery: 1:30

Okay. Interesting. So give me a bit of your, your backstory first, Lew. I mean, you had a successful career in sports marketing and communications, you know, what inspired you to pivot towards environmental advocacy and ultimately set up EcoAthletes.

Lew Blaustein: 1:47

Well, the pivot came over 20 years ago. I was always, I would call it a lowercase e environmentalist, but I was a sports nut and always wanted to work in sports. So that was my driving passion. And I was fortunate enough to be able to work, as you said, in sports, advertising, sales, marketing, communications in New York city, going back to the nineties. But then, for me, and it's going to sound a bit kitsch perhaps, 9 11 changed it for me, and I happen to be working at Sports Illustrated, actually Sports Illustrated for Kids in Midtown Manhattan on September 11th, 2001. The attacks were down in Lower Manhattan and I didn't know anybody in the buildings personally. But being from the New York area and living my whole life in it, I felt like I was attacked, and I had to do something, but I did not know what to do. And so fast forward a couple years, and there was an article by Tom Friedman, multiple Pulitzer Prize winning columnist who's still doing it for the New York Times, in the paper, headline, Green is the New Red, White, and Blue. So I looked at that and, and said, wait a minute. He's saying that we are, insanely fueling the wars on terrorism that we're fighting by our profligate energy use, because at that time, the U S was buying a significant percentage of its oil from Saudi Arabia. And the Saudis, Friedman said, were basically buying off their Wahhabi extremists on their right because they wanted to stay in power, the royal family with our oil money. And they were the Wahhabis using some of that money to pay people, to train them, to fly planes into buildings. And it was like the compact fluorescent light bulb, because LEDs weren't around then went off above my head. I got, I bought a hybrid car way before the sales people even knew how to sell it. change out all my light bulbs, went 90 percent vegetarian, but then soon realized personal virtue, so called isn't going to do anything. And so then I thought I need to green my work. So I came to it from a patriotic point of view. I've never met anybody who had that same experience and I didn't think I was that unique, but as I'm diving into this career change that's when I started learning even more about the climate crisis. And I saw these two like massive macro trends and forces global geopolitics and climate kind of colliding. And I thought this is where I have to work. But there were no jobs in green marketing communications, et cetera, back in the two thousands. And I was not gonna do like installing solar 'cause I'm a klutz. So I went off as a consultant in 2005, marketing myself as a green marketing biz dev communications consultant. And then in 2010, after I had established myself, I started to think. Is there an intersection between green and sports, my two passions? And that's when I found out there was something called the Green Sports Alliance forming in the Pacific Northwest here of venue operators, sports venue operators trying to do better on recycling and energy efficient lighting. And I thought, oh, this is interesting, and that led to more dominoes falling. And then by 2020, I had decided to launch EcoAthletes.

Tom Raftery: 5:46

Okay. And tell me what is it that EcoAthletes does?

Lew Blaustein: 5:53

So EcoAthletes, as I said before, our mission is to inspire and coach athletes to lead climate action. And how we work to do that is to provide our global roster that is growing. Right now we have 173 EcoAthletes, champions, professionals, Olympians, and something that is quite unique to the United States, which is NCAA student athletes with big time and also smaller college sports and we provide them with the tools to advance from climate curious to To climate leader. And the reason why we do this is, as I said earlier, athletes have led on all manner of social issues going back many decades. And as the most influential humans on the planet that has had real impact from civil rights, think Muhammad Ali, issues of war and peace, think Muhammad Ali, from women's rights think Billie Jean King, from LGBTQ rights think Billie Jean King. And in the more recent examples you have Megan Rapinoe and equal pay for women, Colin Kaepernick. And I'm using US examples cause that's what I know best. You know, fighting police brutality against African Americans. And now you can almost see the entire WNBA involved in a myriad of social issues. But on climate, athletes have stayed on the sidelines for the most part. And the way I knew I found this out was that I've been writing a blog called Green Sports Blog, greensportsblog. com since 2013 and interviewed a bunch of athletes who were active environmentally. Doing plastic ocean waste removal campaigns and e-waste recycling drives and the like and I would ask them Oh, and do you connect that to the climate crisis when you speak in public and You know, especially 2014 through say 2018-19 90% of them would say no and I'd ask why or why not actually and three obstacles kept coming up. Climate change is too sciencey and the athlete will say, Ah, I don't feel comfortable talking about a scientific topic, of which I know little. It's too political. I don't want to stick my neck out on a political issue. And the one we get the most nowadays, although we still get those first two, is that I'm going to get hammered on social media for being a hypocrite because I fly all over the place for my sport and my personal carbon footprint is through the roof. So I would hear these over and over again. And I would say to myself, self, I know how to kind of turn that negative into a positive or at least to neutralize it. There needs to be a place, an organization that helps athletes who are environmentally active and passionate get over that climate break and get over that climate hump and talk about climate change. And that was kind of the, that started the ball rolling to EcoAthletes founding. And so hopefully I answered your question.

Tom Raftery: 9:31

You did you did and what kind of resources are you providing them?

Lew Blaustein: 9:35

We have on our website at EcoAthletes.org uh where we we call it the Resource Hub, and it’s five kind of buckets of resources that we provide to the champions. In no particular order, they are community because athletes have told me, you know, I feel alone, no one or very few people in my circle, or certainly on my team if I'm in a team sport care about this. And being alone is not a good way to be if you want to, you know, step forward to step out. If you don't feel if you feel like no one has your back. So we provide them their back, so to speak. So, you know, and that so community runs the gamut from we have community chats every two to three months where we gather the champions virtually. We have outside presenters on different topics, including media training on how to talk about climate. We also do brainstorms on how to use our influence more powerfully. And sometimes we have internal we have champions have made presentations on some of the on some of the projects they're working on. We have ecopreneurs in our midst while they are active athletes. It's really an incredible group. So that's community. Then we also another pillar, so to say, of the resource. Resource hub or what we provide is social media. And you might say, well, social media, duh, like they know how to, what you find is talking to these athletes they don't feel comfortable talking about climate change on social because there's so much misinformation and disinformation out there. So we say to them two things. One, follow our main hashtag, which is climate comeback. And because we are behind in the climate game, right? And we need a comeback Who fashions comebacks? Athletes do. You know, accountants, not so much. Like if you watch any sports movie, there's a 95 percent chance or greater that it's about a comeback. This is universal in the world of sports. And so we say follow our hashtag because anything that we post that has a climate factoid aspect to it has been vetted. They don't have to worry about it. Second, some of the athletes say, okay, yeah, that's great. We'll repost your content. But I want to have I want to have my own voice on, on social media on climate. So we do one on one trainings with them on how to find out what they, what they like to post, what they're afraid of, and how we can make it work for them. So that's social media. Then we have mentorship and with mentorship, that takes several forms. We do career coaching for those who are looking to transition from their on field or on court career to something that's in the green space, or even more a finer point, the green sports space. If they want to become an accountant or an astronaut, we can't help them, but we can help them in these spaces. And then we also have one on one sessions called climate communications for athletes, and these have proven to be very powerful where we go over, we identify which of those breaks that I talked about earlier are holding them back. And then we role play how to overcome them. And then we also do thought leadership. So once the athletes either they come to us, the champions and they're ready to talk about climate, or they work some of those resource hub spokes that I just mentioned, and then they're confident. Then we get them on podcasts like this, we get them on panels, we get them at conferences and we find them traditional media interviews and we've had our champions on BBC and ESPN and CBC in Canada and other outlets. And then finally we have endorsements with green brands. So that's an increasingly popular or kind of fertile space. There are brands that are green or purport to be green that want to connect with athletes who are credible in the space. And what we do is we vet those brands, first of all, to make sure there's no credible greenwashing threat that could stall things could make things dangerous. And assuming they pass that threshold, then we try to connect them or connect them to their, agent if there are are agents involved. So that's what we provide.

Tom Raftery: 14:27

Very good. Very good. And what would you say has surprised you most in your journey to where you are today?

Lew Blaustein: 14:36

You know what, what, that is such a good question. What, what has surprised me is the incredible passion that these athletes who have either we've found them or they've found us that they bring to this. Passion to learn, passion to speak out, passion to engage their fellow athletes. And passion to overcome their fears. It is truly, you know, and I'm, you know, by my hairline, you can see I'm a little, you know, I I've had a quite a long career. It is truly an incredible blessing to be able to work with these athletes our EcoAthletes Champions, I, I am just always amazed by how spectacular they are.

Tom Raftery: 15:38

Fantastic. Fantastic. And we often see when we watch these athletes playing, you know, they often inspire us with their dedication and perseverance on the field or on the court. How do you see those qualities translating into climate advocacy?

Lew Blaustein: 16:22

Another good question. What's really interesting is what you see is, you know, so athletes, as you say, they've spent what is it like the Malcolm Gladwell theory that says you have to spend 10,000 hours or and maybe they've spent 20,000 hours to get to this, elite level, the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. And so they are really like, they are so great at that. And yet when they come to the climate space for many, this is new. And this is territory that, where they're not this kind of like master or mistress of the universe. Right. And they show their vulnerabilities just like anybody else. However, you can also see that elite athlete, those elite athlete traits come into play like they want to know more and they drive hard at it and they want to overcome their fears or, you know, they want to course correct just like what an athlete does in a game, right? You problem solve whatever sport you're talking about. You're like, I play tennis. That is an ultimate problem solving sport where you're trying to course correct in the middle of the game or a match and that you could see it like you can almost see it in their minds as you're talking to them. It's really phenomenal.

Tom Raftery: 17:56

Impressive. And I mean, we've seen musicians like Taylor Swift's mobilize fans for social causes. Do you think athletes have a similar influence when it comes to engaging people on climate issues?

Lew Blaustein: 18:10

Well, that's so that goes back to our, you know, kind of raison d'etre that, Absolutely, yes. And the kind of Delta right is that the opportunity is that they have stayed on the sidelines. They haven't used that capital that they have on this particular issue because of the fears, too sciency, too political. I'm going to get my butt kicked on social media because I'm a hypocrite or seen as a hypocrite. So yes, absolutely. We're looking for the Mohammed Ali's and the Billie Jean Kings of the climate movement. And we're trying to help once we find them, try to help push them out there so that they can, you know, leverage their, platform.

Tom Raftery: 19:02

Sure, sure, sure. Have you any successes you've seen in the kind of green sports movement so far? Any moments that stand out for you?

Lew Blaustein: 19:10

So we have something called the, EcoAthletes Collegiate Cup. It's an annual competition amongst the student athletes that we have within our network of champions. Now, we have about 30 and on 23 campuses and basically. It's a competition where they get their fellow teammates, their friends at school who are not student athletes, their families, the barista at the coffee shop down the street, to sign up for the Stanford university team. If they're Stanford athletes or the Duke team or the Ohio state team on an app. And then they exercise. And their exercise is turned into an environmental currency. So that currency funded by our donors and partners is used to buy offsets, which I know offsets can be a very dicey topic. However, we feel very comfortable with the offsets that we have invested in, which are methane capture. So the idea is the more people exercise, the more methane is kept out of the atmosphere. And exercise by itself is a good thing too. And what you find in the collegiate cup is that these athletes, these student athletes are competitive and they want to win because the school that exercises the most on aggregate. wins the cup. And so, in 24, it was Clemson University and San Jose state university were one and two, two and one. And they, like in the last week, it ends on Earth Day it's a six week competition. The lead traded hands four times. And then in the last day, the lead traded hands four times with Clemson winning it within the last hour. And something like 10 tons of methane was avoided or kept out of the atmosphere which was a massive 4 times increased versus last year 23. So that was a success. And then another success also, this year was that we have 17 olympians amongst our EcoAthletes Champions, and six won medals. And that's great, but that is not the success that I'm talking about. The success is that we generated on a conservative level 40 million media impressions amongst our Olympians talking about environment or climate. So we don't count if an interview is about this Olympian winning a silver medal as great as that is. We only count if they talk about their environmental advocacy. And one really great example of that was a campaign that we partnered with an organization called Action Speaks Louder that is trying to get Lululemon to match its rhetoric with climate action. So they're talking the talk on climate. But they're not doing nearly as well as the talk implies on, you know, reducing emissions, especially from their supply chain. And so we got six Olympians to sign on to an open letter to the CEO and another wrote an op ed that appeared in the National Observer of Canada, Lululemon being a Canadian company. And the CEO wrote us back. And it wasn't like a PR scrub. Well, there was a little PR in there, but it wasn't like a PR scrub letter. And basically saying in September, we're coming out with our impact report. And after that, we would be amenable to meeting with Action Speaks Louder to see how we can do better. And, you know, the impact report per Action Speaks Louder left a bit to be let's say, but they were like, hey, we're going to get in the room with them. And that does not happen without athletes. And, and your athletes specifically. So those are some successes. And then we're, you know, now working on Vote Climate here in the US. And hopefully that will be a success too.

Tom Raftery: 23:25

Yeah, so I was going to ask about that. So tell us about the Vote Climate campaign. You know, what is it? How did it come about? And what do you hope to achieve with it?

Lew Blaustein: 23:34

So it came about like this, this is just for our US champions. You may have heard that we have an election coming up

Tom Raftery: 23:40

No, really? Right.

Lew Blaustein: 23:44

In case you hadn't heard, there's, there, there is one here. So, people always ask, okay, how can I make a difference on climate? And. You know, yes, don't use single use plastics and walk or ride your bike more and drive less and those kinds of things, but those are micro. Big things, talk about it with your friends, and vote. Now we are a 501c3 nonprofit, not to get too into the weeds of it all, but that just means that when it comes to electoral politics, we cannot endorse a candidate nor a party. However, we are certainly allowed to encourage voter registration and participation. Encourage people to check the registration status to make sure that they are registered and to know where to vote. And then we can also encourage issue oriented voting. So, so we thought that with all the hullabaloo going around this election, and that is probably a kind word. Climate as an issue has receded a bit in terms of what is being discussed and what is being voted on. So we decided that we wanted to engage our athletes. Remember our, our US athletes our US EcoAthletes champions. Athletes being the most, influential humans on the planet to encourage people to register, to check their status and to vote like their climate depends on it. And so that has been, we've been live with it for maybe five weeks, you know, focusing on the home stretch. And it's been a mix of social media, and videos deployed on social media with our champions narrating some interviews, first was register and that was the prime message. But now as we're talking on October 14th some states, the registration deadlines have passed. There's some that some states you can register to vote on election day. So it's a mishmash. But we're moving now from a messaging point of view to check your registration status and vote like your climate depends on it. That's the emphasis. So we're still looking to see what are in terms of results. I mean, there are numbers. We're hoping to get you know, we're looking to get registration and voter check your status numbers up. It's still in the, in the mix right now. And then we are going to also do some surveys and anecdotal to try and get some anecdotal evidence to see how many of our followers actually voted climate. So those are the goals of it all.

Tom Raftery: 26:43

Okay. And I assume. Because he's famously an avid golfer, you'd be advocating that all, all of your, your eco champions agitate for Donald Trump, right?

Lew Blaustein: 26:55

We're not allowed, as I said, we are not allowed to go there. We, I can, I speaking as the, the CEO of EcoAthletes, we cannot be partisan, we're not even talking about one candidate or another. However, what we do encourage and I encourage your listeners. And viewers who are US citizens to go to ecoathletes.org. It's really simple to check your registration status. It's just a couple of clicks and to make sure you have a voting plan, you know where to vote. You can, you know, in your state, when can you vote early or et cetera, et cetera. That's what we're trying to drive voter participation on climate.

Tom Raftery: 27:38

Great. Looking ahead, what are your hopes for the future of EcoAthletes and the role of sports in combating climate change?

Lew Blaustein: 27:46

So you asked about the metrics around Vote Climate. So what, what kind of metrics can we use to show that we are having success? Because the climate scoreboard doesn't look very great right now. So right now, you know, metrics are basically how many people are hearing our message. And that has been going up. Now, one thing that I want to put more emphasis on and and, you know, like any nonprofit, this goes with more funding, which we're working on. So, assuming we have the funding, I want to put some resources behind research to understand how many actions people are taking, to see if there's a way to translate our awareness growth with action growth. So that's one thing. Then there are more kind of qualitative measures. So, for example, you know, here in the US we have something called the ESPYs I don't know if you've heard of it. It's basically the Oscars for sports, and it's ESPN is the bearer of it. So it's the ESPYs and it's like a thing and they have kind of a humanitarian award every year. I'll feel like we've made a measure of success when one of our EcoAthletes Champions is nominated and wins. We've gotten other awards, but the ESPYs are like kind of a a North Star. And then, you know, in terms of our champions, there are other metrics that are more qualitative, but I think are just, will show that we are not, that we are mainstream. Not, and this is broader than EcoAthletes now, that the green sports movement is mainstream. And. So to this point, and I'm speaking kind of from a 30,000 foot view, the green sports movement has been around for about 20 ish years, and it's mainly been focused on what happens at the ballpark or the stadium or the arena, i. e. LEED certified venues, zero waste games, et cetera. And that made sense. I call that green sports 1.0. That made sense for the beginning, the stadium, the arena is your front porch if you're sports. However, what they don't tell you is that, and Adam Silver, the commissioner of the NBA did tell us. You know, he said, and I, I believe it's only 1 or 2% of NBA fans have ever been to an NBA game. And so if all we're focusing on are the actual venues and greening that we are missing the, to say the majority of the lion's share is to undersell it. We are missing the power of sports, which is to get fans to make behavioral change. And to demand systemic change through the power of sports, because I'll use the Super Bowl as an example. There were 70,000 people at the Super Bowl in 24. And in the US. over 200 million people tuned in for at least a bit of it. You know, which are you going to emphasize? The 70,000 or the 200 million? You know, which line I'm going to be in. And I think that's where we need to go. And that's why to me, what we do with EcoAthletes is to use the power of athletes through media. That's like a humongous thing that, you know, get the sports media engaged on this issue and get the mega events like the Olympics, and the World Cups of the world to show more green content, to talk about climate's impacts on sports to, I mean, there are the opportunities are legion, but we need to bring all aspects of that green sports stool or all the, all the legs of it. Yes, the stadiums. But yeah, athlete, and athletes, and sponsors, and media to all push for this. And so that's where I'm looking to make an impact through EcoAthletes with our champions. And I think that's to your question about Vote Climate, that's why we are using the champions to say vote like your climate depends on it.

Tom Raftery: 32:43

If you could have any sports person, fictional or real, alive or dead as a spokesperson for the organization, who would it be and why?

Lew Blaustein: 32:53

Oh, man. That is a good one. Well i'm gonna go with definitely alive because I want to go with someone who is current and who has cachet with current sports fans. So, for me, I could see a couple of them Steph Curry of the Golden State Warriors. I think he would be just a phenomenal spokesperson. I think Lionel Messi, just because he's Lionel Messi and he has gotten involved in an environmental project in Argentina. Of course, he's also tied in with the Saudis and, endorsement wise. So I would say Leo, you know, you don't need the money from the Saudis, easier for me to say, but I would still say it. Come on over. We'll talk. And then I would say Coco Goff. I know you asked for one, but I'm giving you three. Because Coco Goff, I don't know if you follow tennis, but at the US Open, not in 23, which she won, climate protesters got their feet glued to the stadium floor and disrupted her match by like 45 or 50 minutes. And then she was asked about it afterwards. And she said, you know, it wasn't what I wanted, but I understand what they're complaining about. I understand that. And so I understand the climate crisis, and we need to do something about it. I'm paraphrasing.

Tom Raftery: 34:27

Sure. Yeah.

Lew Blaustein: 34:28

And so I'm like, Oh, Coco, come on.

Tom Raftery: 34:33

Or the recent given, given your tennis love, the recently retired Rafa Nadal.

Lew Blaustein: 34:37

Oh my gosh. Yes. Yes. Rafa, Federer, any of those folks would be great. And and Rafa is a lefty just like I am. So I definitely would accept, would welcome him with an open left hand.

Tom Raftery: 34:58

And for people who are listening, who are inspired by this, what actions can they take to support EcoAthletes or become climate advocates themselves?

Lew Blaustein: 35:07

Well first to become climate advocates yourselves. I again, say, as I said earlier, talk about climate to your friends. And when doing so advocate for, you know, we need systemic change, and this is something that we can build from the ground up from the bottom up. So talk about it, even if it's uncomfortable. I always say my challenge is have one conversation about climate change per week with someone you've never spoken about it with before. Just because that's gonna build it and then vote. And this is not only as it relates to the US election, although Yes, US election. Go to ecoathletes.org to see how you can vote for Vote Climate. But this is everywhere because by letting your vote do the talking, you will show the leaders wherever you are that you care about this issue. And to support ecoathletes. Go to ecoathletes. org. We are a nonprofit, and so we definitely can use your financial support at whatever level. And it is tax deductible depending on the laws in your country. Certainly if you're in the U S it is tax deductible.

Tom Raftery: 36:26

Great. We're coming towards the end of the podcast now, Lew, is there any question I haven't asked that you wish I had or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to think about?

Lew Blaustein: 36:36

Well, I'm going to say that the one question that I often get is, I feel like this is a hopeless situation. How can I have hope on climate? And so, my answer is, and I've given part of it already, but I'm going to expand on it a little bit is. One, we are the generation and the people who are alive now, and that goes from greatest generation because there are still some, baby boomers and all the way down to gen alpha. We are the generation that has within our power, the ability to make a real difference on climate for the better. You know, two generations from now we may not be able to say that. So I actually look at that as a great privilege, and a responsibility with that, my answer to people who say, what can I do is 1) based on what I just said, have hope, 2) do something, whether it be actions, you know, driving less, walking more, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Because that can be an on ramp to even more action. And then talk about it and vote. And as you do that, and as you get more involved, you're going to, and I'm not going to sugarcoat it. You're still going to feel frustrated, down, whatever, but you're also going to push past that because you're going to see there is progress being made and that you can accelerate more. So do something.

Tom Raftery: 38:34

Great, great. Lew, if people would like to know more about yourself or any of the things we discussed in the podcast today, where would you have me direct them?

Lew Blaustein: 38:43

Please direct them to ecoathletes. org. You'll find out about our whole myriad of activities Vote Climate, the Collegiate Cup, et cetera, et cetera, and how you can get involved as well.

Tom Raftery: 38:57

Superb. Lew, that's been fascinating. Thanks a million for coming to the podcast today.

Lew Blaustein: 39:01

Oh, thank you, Tom. It was a total pleasure. I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with your audience.

Tom Raftery: 39:10

Okay, we've come to the end of the show. Thanks everyone for listening. If you'd like to know more about the Climate Confident podcast, feel free to drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook. com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter. If you like the show, please don't forget to click follow on it in your podcast application of choice to get new episodes as soon as they're published. Also, please don't forget to rate and review the podcast. It really does help new people to find the show. Thanks. Catch you all next time.