Talking the Mental Approach to Golf with Ina Kim-Schaad of Fearless Golf

You're on the first tee and there is a large group of players watching everyone tee-off.  Perhaps you're putting for your first ever eagle or birdie.  Or maybe it's your first competitive event and you're not sure how to prepare for it. 

These are just some of the situations that our guest deals with.  Ina Kim Schaad is the 2019 US Women's Mid-Amateur champion and now a Mental Performance Coach with the renowned Dr. Gio Valiante of Fearless Golf.     

Dr. Gio is well known for his work with many professional players and through his appearances on the Golf Channel.   In our episode, we talk with Ina and how her journey in both golf and life brought her to being a Mental Performance Coach and working with one of the most well known performance psychologists.  

You won't want to miss this episode as Ina shares some of her thoughts on how she works with clients and how  she prepares herself not only in golf, but with aspects of her daily life.  We're available on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Deezer and more.

Produced by the World of Golf.

Transcript

Douglas Maida: 0:13

Good afternoon and welcome to our show. We're talking golf. My name is Douglas Maida. And I'm your host. Also joining us today is our co host Shayain Gustavsp. How are you, Shayain?

Shayain G.: 0:24

Hey, Douglas, what's up? Good?

Douglas Maida: 0:25

Good. Welcome back to the show.

Shayain G.: 0:27

Thank you.

Douglas Maida: 0:29

Today's show is being recorded from our studio in beautiful Vancouver, British Columbia. We're produced by the World of Golf, And you can find us on the worldwide web at: www.worldofgolf.org. Or on our social media channels of Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and now on LinkedIn. For those of you in Asia and elsewhere, you can follow us on Weibo, and We Chat. Now before we get into today's show. I'd like to welcome you our listeners and followers from around the world that listen to our show. For without you and your support, we would not be able to bring you this show. So thank you again for all of your listeners and downloading. Our guest today is going to be Ina Kim Schaad. She's the 2019 us women's mid amateur champion, and she's a mental performance coach now working with Dr. Gio Valiante. But before we get to our guest, we have a brief message from our producer

Amy (Studio): 1:27

you're listening to our podcast show we're talking of our show is produced by the world of golf. You can find us on the web at www dot world of golf.org. The World of Golf is an independent digital media company. You can find our podcast show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, and iHeart Radio. Now back to our show. Here are your co hosts, Douglas and Shayain with our special guest.

Douglas Maida: 1:56

We're back. Thank you for staying with us. Now let's get right to our guest Ina Kim Schaad is the 2019 us women's mid amateur champion. She's a former collegiate player having played for Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois. She is now a mental performance coach with Dr. Gio Valiante. Many of you will know Dr. Gio from his many appearances on the Golf Channel. She's joining us live via zoom from New York. Welcome to the show, Ina.

Ina Kim: 2:26

Thank you guys so much for having me. I'm excited to be on here. Our pleasure.

Douglas Maida: 2:31

And so, you know, why don't you start with a little bit about how things are with you right now. You've been a busy person for the last couple of well, since I've seen you on Instagram and all the work you're doing with regards to coaching and traveling around meeting players and various tournaments. You got a little bit of a break now.

Ina Kim: 2:53

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's a short break of two weeks, my sister just had a baby. So I get to go visit my family for the first time, since kind of the very beginning. Thank you of quarantine. So I'm really excited. So it's nice to have a little bit of downtime. But you know, I think all of us kind of Workaholics. We just love having things to do and being busy. So this is a little bit tough for me, if any. But I am making the most of it. I'm enjoying time with my family, the dogs eating a lot, you know, reading a lot. The usual quarantine activities.

Shayain G.: 3:30

Yeah, I was gonna say,

Douglas Maida: 3:34

Let's talk a little bit about your journey in golf and how you originally came to be in this position. I understand you grew up in LA, you played some golf, you were involved in junior golf, all sorts of things.

Unknown: 3:46

Right. Yeah. I mean, I think I was super lucky. My parents just loved golf. And we were kind of just in the beginning of when, right before golf really took off my sister and I. So my parents kind of took us when we were young, maybe five or six and started getting us into golf, because that's what they wanted to do on the weekends, frankly. So they would drag us along. And we would have fun driving the carts and whatnot. And pretty soon we found ourselves in lessons. And then, you know, we were playing in tournaments. But like I said, I mean, just that era, kind of in the in the late 80s and early 90s it was really kind of right before golf, took that huge run. So we were really lucky timing wise to have already been interested. And then you know, the era of Tiger, the era of Siri, and even locally in California, you know, first of all, we're able to play 365 days a year, which is amazing. And secondly, you know the the area that I grew up in and my golf coach, my childhood golf coach, you know, he taught Kevin Na, he taught Ted Oh and in junior golf in LA it was you were just surrounded by these phenotypes. So it was just a really great time to grow up. And I don't know if you guys have read this book called the talent code by by Dan Coyle, but he talks about this as a phenomenon called ignition. And it really is, you know, it's like what serie pack did for women's golf with Tiger Woods Tiger did for you know all golf. And you know Maria Sharapova for tennis and Russia it's ... it's seeing somebody you know who who did it that you never thought. And then it kind of allows you to unleash your full potential. So it's kind of a really cool, I guess, you know, in retrospect thing that that I can look upon and say yeah, you know, I think that's probably what happened to me I was just at the right place the right time and had the right parents and all of that. So I was very lucky.

Douglas Maida: 5:33

I understand you had a little bit of a distinguished Junior career as well, Ina.

Ina Kim: 5:38

I did, I was lucky enough to make it to the finals in the US Junior girls, I believe my junior year of school of high school. And I won a number of ajga tournaments. And I got to play in the junior Ryder Cup, which was amazing. So I really, I was super lucky. And again, I had my sister who was 13 months older as a role model. And I just was in a really great group of kind of really talented and hardworking, you know, young people around me. So it was just a great time. Yeah, yeah.

Douglas Maida: 6:15

So let's chat a little bit about how you went from junior golf to college. You had a career playing at Northwestern University, I understand you were the captain of your team at one point.

Ina Kim: 6:27

Yes, yeah, that was wonderful. And somehow I got talked into going to the coldest climate ever to, like all, but it was just a wonderful experience. And for me, it was such the right choice. Because I going into college, frankly, I knew that I wanted to have my academics be a priority for me. So that's kind of why I chose a college had great golf program, but phenomenal academics. And now they're one of the best golf programs around as well. So just I got really lucky there. And I kind of knew that when I graduated, I would most likely, you know, put my golf clubs away and start focusing on a career, which is what I ended up doing. So it all worked out great.

Shayain G.: 7:09

Can you kind of talk about -- to the younger audience the importance of Yeah, you could be a great golfer. But if your grades aren't up to par, being eligible to go to these really big universities, potentially could not be an option. And then what did you study in school? Like, how did you know what you want? How did you balance the playing golf, and then also, because that's a pretty hard university to get into. And to keep your grades.

Ina Kim: 7:34

I mean, I think that it's funny, I actually have faith that so many student athletes, even in junior high in high school, you know, we have this aptitude and ability to really challenge ourselves and manage our time well, because you you kind of are forced to right, just by the sheer nature of golf being such a time suck. So you're in school, from what 8am to 4pm, and then you go straight to the driving range or golf course or whatever, and then you practice and then you've got to just budget your time, so efficiently. So I really think that we're lucky in a way that golf forces us to do that from when we're little because of how time consuming it is by nature. So by the time you get to college, you kind of have a lot of that time management. And it really is just planning ahead. Knowing your own propensity is you know, of whether you like to procrastinate a lot, or whether you'll get everything done so that you can go party or you know, whatever it is, I think it's just, you know, you can't force yourself to do stuff that you really, really don't want to or is not in your nature. But if you can plan ahead and get things done so that if you do say want to go to a party or something, then that's fine, that, you know, nobody's gonna crush you for that. But I'm just trying to be kind of realistic with how you manage your time and expectations, I think is the best way. But I do think there's a funny thing about people who are productive, the busier they are, they're actually more productive in a strange way. So they're, you know, running around like crazy people. And like when they have all this time, they actually produce less than when they're actually busy. So it's kind of an interesting thing. But I would challenge you know, these these young kids who are maybe intimidated or overwhelmed to, you know, what put themselves in that position and see how productive they will be and they'll really amaze themselves.

Shayain G.: 9:17

And then I think a follow up to that is I'm hearing a lot more that young girls are dropping out of golf between like ages of 10 to 14. And they're feeling like golf is not a team sport. So what can you say to playing in a university? how do you still stay in touch with your teammates and like, how can you kind of let the young girl know that even though it's an individual sport, when you play in college, it very much could be a team sport as well?

Ina Kim: 9:48

Yeah, absolutely. It's it's kind of one of those weird sports there. I wouldn't say there are many like golf. But I was lucky enough to play on a high school team and then in college, so I kind of got the team out. aspect of both and even in junior golf, you know, we had a lot of events like the

Shayain G.: 10:01

Great. the cannon cup, which I think is now what is it called the Windham cup, East Coast versus West Coast and and then again, the the Ryder Cup and things like that. So the team events

Ina Kim: 10:11

So, Ina, you went from golf, to leaving golf, and a are the best because you don't often get to do them. And then when you get in college, you kind of have an automatic group of, you know, between eight and 12 women, that are your advocates that are your best friends that are your, you know, another set of eyes, a shoulder to cry on, you know, whatever, whatever you may, may need. So I just think I think college sports are just wonderful. The team dynamics, you know, as in everything, when you put 12 girls together, there can be issues too, but it ebbs and flows. And I just think, as with all friendships, you know, it's it's such a beautiful thing to have and to grow into over the course of four years as players come and go, and you get new freshmen and graduating seniors and all that. So, and yeah, I absolutely keep in touch with one of my friends from both Junior golf, and college golf. So I'm very lucky in that sense. And that's even after, you know, taking an 11 year hiatus. So golf is a very, very strong bond. And we're all very lucky to to love a sport such as this. successful career, was that a tough decision to make? or How did you come about rationalizing that decision or or being in a position to make that decision? Yeah, I, for me, it wasn't a super difficult decision to be honest. Only because my sister actually was playing professionally on the LPGA when I graduated college, so we kind of had one already doing that in the family. And I figured out just get the stable job and be, you know, have that and I can I can play golf later in my life. And you know, when I retire was what I thought. And so I was I was just so excited to see what else was out there. Because I've been playing golf for so long. And I wanted to see what else I could do with my life. And then golf. How did you come back to Golf?

Douglas Maida: 12:02

Can you share a little bit about your journey? How you rediscovered your passion for golf and playing golf?

Ina Kim: 12:07

Yeah, that's pretty funny. So I was, I was actually living abroad and working in London at the time, around maybe 2013 or so. And I met my now husband, then at a golf outing, which I kind of did maybe once a year if that. So it was a total freak accident that I met him. And then we ended up just becoming friends over the years over the course of a few years. And then I we kind of started dating and maybe 2015 or 2016. And I eventually moved to New York and 27 No, no, hold on. I moved to New York in 2015. I'm sorry. And that's when he and I were together. And he got me into golf, because that's what he wanted to do on the weekends. Like, well, let's go play golf. I was like, All right, let's go. And eventually.

Shayain G.: 12:55

So is he American? Or is he No, he's

Ina Kim: 12:58

actually American. He's he's he's from Rhinebeck, New York, which is where I'm at right now. He moved back to New York, and actually moved to Hong Kong. And then we started dating eventually, long distance. And then I moved to New York.

Shayain G.: 13:11

And is this all the most because of your work?

Ina Kim: 13:13

worked around for work? Exactly?

Shayain G.: 13:15

What was it that you're doing?

Ina Kim: 13:17

I was working in finance. I was specifically I was mostly trading securities lending equities. And then I did a little bit of total return swaps A few years later. So

Shayain G.: 13:30

Wow.

Douglas Maida: 13:31

All right. Now, you're back in New York, and you're starting to play golf again. And then you play a little bit of competitive golf. And you find yourself the 2019. us women's mid amateur champion? How did that all come about Ina? I mean, when you came back to playing golf was that even on your mind as a goal?

Ina Kim: 13:52

Oh, not necessarily. So when I actually quit my job in New York in 2016. And then that's when I all of a sudden found myself with all this time, and I kind of figured I'd quit and then I take maybe a year or two off and probably go back into finance was what I was thinking. So I just kind of embraced my free time. And I signed up for a bunch of tournaments, and I started just doing, you know, all sorts of random hobbies. And I went out and won my first tournament, which happened to be at Atlantic in the Hamptons, so beautiful venue, obviously. And I guess I kind of got the golf bug pretty soon after that. So you know, kept playing more tournaments and then, you know, in 2019, four years later, still play call still playing competitive golf and I just loving it. But um, yeah, that I would say the midam kind of evolved. After probably two years of playing golf again and playing in the US amateur playing in the midam. And playing in a bunch of high level tournaments. I kind of realized, you know what, I actually think I could could go and win the midterm, I think that's a real possibility for me. So it evolved into a goal over the course of a couple years

Shayain G.: 15:06

Did it kind of take you back to the college days of the grind of, you know, getting back and your skills, or did it just come back quite naturally to you,

Ina Kim: 15:16

you know that the physical skills actually came back quicker than I thought, obviously, minus a lot of the finesse shots, but the physical skills came back pretty quick. But what I found myself in was, I kind of I term it, you know, kind of Arrested Development jokingly, but but really, I, when I quit golf at 2021, I kind of when I picked it back up in my 30s, I was would go back revert to my you know, 20 year old self, in terms of just like how I would react to getting frustrated with a game or you know, just different kind of things. And I found myself putting so much pressure and, and just really not enjoying it after a little while. And so that's kind of how my relationship with golf evolved was that I started playing, I was playing well. But then I realized that I, the more, you know, the better I played, the more pressure I started putting on myself. And then I became a little more unhappy. And I wasn't enjoying the game as much. And it was like, it went into kind of a downward spiral. And I was like, well, this is not what I why I'm playing golf, I'm playing golf, because I love it. And I really had to take a long look in the mirror and kind of evaluate what I was doing, why I was doing this all. And then that kind of that journey led me eventually to seek out Dr. Gio's help. And then he and I obviously formed a really, really strong bond. And he's been an amazing coach, mentor, friend, you know, all of the above. And he really helped me get over those mental hurdles and kind of develop myself into the 30 something year old person that I was not not the 20 year old version of myself. So that was that was really a big, a big change for me. And, and, you know, if I hadn't gone through the bad part of it, I wouldn't have come out the other side.

Shayain G.: 17:05

If you had to put like a percentage, if you could, on how much you think now golf is mental. Then when you were like a younger kid, where you just thought, Oh, I just have to keep practicing and practicing but not realizing, you know, the mental aspect of choking, the yips, all that kind of stuff kind of comes out? What percentage would you give to somebody that's never tried the game?

Ina Kim: 17:30

So I would say, you know, I actually think it changes it ebbs and flows over time. But but I honestly think the mental game is got to be at least 70 to 90% of the game. I mean, especially when you get into kind of the upper echelon, you know, everybody who's in the plus handicap zone, like you all have the physical ...

Shayain G.: 17:50

... and all can do it. Yeah.

Ina Kim: 17:51

You know, exactly, but, but what really separates, you know, the the guys who are winning and the guys who are missing the cuts, it's not their physical game at all. It's what's between the ears and what's going on, and their self talk and all of that kind of stuff. So that's, that's really what's what the fascinating part is, it's funny, you look at Junior golfers, and they do the same, but it's in a much less Amplified Version of it for the most part, and they don't have as much scar tissue, as you know, adults do. Or professionals for that matter who've been playing for so many years, and they have so much riding on it. So that's why I kind of used that that larger band of percentage. But yeah, I mean, it is a very huge component of of golf, for sure.

Shayain G.: 18:28

And then from your point of view, do you find it interesting that most golfers are usually hitting the driving, like all like even when you were a kid, for example. Usually you're the driving range you're practicing. It's all the physical aspect of it. But no one really is at a very young age teaching the younger kids Well, now maybe so more, but like maybe not when you were younger, the mental of because if you're saying it's 70%, that is a big part that you should be doing driving range and the mental activity kind of balancing it kind of out. What are your thoughts on that?

Ina Kim: 19:04

Right, yeah, I mean, I do think that, you know, today, we're so lucky that we have all this technology and things like mindfulness is an actual term that everybody knows and embraces, you know, like we talked about in the 80s and 90s. Like, people look at you like you're a hippie freak, right. Yeah, exactly. So so I think that actually, you know, kids have some awareness of, of what that is. But I also think, you know, on the converse side of that, you also have so much, you know, quick stimulation with your iPhones and your iPads and everything else. And so kids don't have that attention. And so they're more forced into being focusing more on mindfulness, because they have to. So it's kind of good and bad, right? Like society's wired us more now to be a little bit more add than we would have been. And then it's like, oh, yeah, but then be mindful. So it's kind of a strange juxtaposition. But um, but yeah, I think Do you think that it is an important part that if kids can start learning from when they're younger, how to quiet their minds how to focus in on the present and be present? I think that's all amazing skills that you can only build and get better at as you get older. So, yeah, fantastic if kids could do that now.

Douglas Maida: 20:18

So Ina you mentioned, if I understand correctly, and I heard correctly, you first came to meet Dr. Gio, when you were playing? Is that correct?

Ina Kim: 20:28

Yes. So he had, you know, we have a bunch of friends in common. And he'd been working with a couple of my friends who, who had spoken very highly of him. So we ended up, you know, we met him a few times, just, you know, in friendly, kind of circles. But, um, we ended up hiring him as my mental coach, to help me through some of the troubles I'd been going through. And, as I referred to earlier, and mainly it was that I was putting so much pressure on myself, and that I wasn't enjoying the game as much as I had because of the pressure. And then, you know, I also have kind of over control issues when it comes to, to golf, particularly with my short game, so we worked on on those things, mostly. And that's specific to me, but I think everybody, you know, struggles a little bit with with this kind of what what Dr. Gio calls mastery versus ego, you know, playing for yourself for the love of the game, you know, versus playing for bragging rights, or to show off your plus handicap or, you know, to win a lot of money. Those are all kind of ego driven, driven things. And it's really trying to return to, you know, the very basic fact of you love the game and why you love the game. So trying to return to the roots of that,

Douglas Maida: 21:45

and how was it that you made the transition into being the player? Student, if you will, into becoming a coach yourself?

Ina Kim: 21:55

Yeah, I would say it was kind of dumb luck, you know, a little bit for to it. So Dr. Gio had really, obviously, he's had so much success, you know, and all kinds of arenas, but he had been in finance for the last few years, and he really missed golf, but he was stretched so thin, he really didn't have a lot of time to deal, you know, he was turning away PGA professionals. And just because he didn't have the bandwidth, so he'd always kind of thought that he wanted an apprentice. And, you know, he and I just, we became really good friends. And so it just kind of evolved into that. Which I am so thankful for. And I'm very lucky. But yeah, I just, we're just kind of trying to figure out a way that we can, you know, make his magic go further, because he just can't physically reach as many people as he'd like to. And, you know, we both love helping people so much that it's, you know, as you know, this business, it's not this one on one type of mental coaching, it's really not super scalable. So, so we just need more bandwidth. That's all.

Shayain G.: 22:59

Do you think the stuff that you've learned is transferable to your day to day life?

Ina Kim: 23:06

Absolutely, it's funny, there's even little things like, just small habits, you know, making your bed in the morning and just, you know, when you're making coffee, like doing so mindlessly, versus you know, really enjoying that cup of coffee that you took, you know, a few minutes to make, it's just little little things that I think it just helps you have a lot more appreciation and really to be present for the appreciation or disdain for that matter, even if I really disliked the burnt toast, or whatever. But I think that it definitely bleeds into a lot of different parts of your life in a good way. For sure.

Douglas Maida: 23:40

So your professional title is mental performance coach, is that correct?

Ina Kim: 23:47

Right? That's correct.

Douglas Maida: 23:48

So how does something like myself who say an amateur recreational golfer, or if you're a little bit more of a serious player wanting to improve your, your skills and things of that nature? Not necessarily when I say skills, I mean it in an all encompassing manner, not just your physical encore skills, but your mental skills as well. So how does somebody approach your mental performance coach and how does a mental performance coach start to work with players?

Ina Kim: 24:19

Right, so I don't know how different other other mental coaches go about their kind of business models, but I can specifically say for Dr. Gio and I, pretty much every single student that we have, whether they're a PGA Professional, PGA Professional or you know an amateur or a, you know, CEO or whatever, they all pretty much go through the same first one day introductory program, which is the fearless Golf Academy and it's a one day pretty comprehensive. happen half and half classroom and then onto the golf course slash range after where we kind of put into action what we taught them on paper, and in theory, and we can kind of illustrate how to put that into into real world action on the golf course. So pretty much all of his players, you know, Justin Leonard, Matt Kuchar Davis Love, like, all these guys have gone through this process. And it's really the best, most efficient way that we can deliver the most meat in terms of information, because it really is a lot of kind of classroom work. And in a good way, we make it interesting, and fun. So, yeah, all our players go through that. And then afterwards, it's developing kind of the, alright, what do you find your tendencies are, and let's work on those more specifically, and kind of hone in once you kind of get the underlying theories, because it really is more of a philosophy that Dr. Gio has, over, you know, his course of, you know, 25 plus years of doctorate work in research and in working with these professionals. So it's a lot of that kind of condensed into really a philosophy on the golf course and off.

Shayain G.: 25:54

So if somebody wanted to, you know, get on board, they would have to come to New York? Or is there some parts of that? Because you're saying there's a learning part of the golf parts? Or is there some parts where you can do it online through you guys or ...

Ina Kim: 26:08

right, so it's actually online, if you go to our website, www dot fearless golf.com we actually have two options. So you can do one in person in Winter Park, Florida, where Dr. geo is based. Or you can do it online, we have zoom versions of it, which we actually it's funny, we rolled out the zoom version, the remote version before the pandemic, and it kind of worked out that we should do it during the pandemic. So we got kind of lucky. But But yeah, the the online version has actually been going really smoothly. And we just, you know, get people to get tripods and do like a FaceTime for the for the post classroom session. And it's worked really smoothly, and people get the same results. So it's been really great.

Shayain G.: 26:51

And it's just like a one time one day condensed session, like you said, or is it kind of broken out into a few days to see progress? Right, so

Ina Kim: 27:01

So typically, the classroom, the clock, while the one day Academy is one day, and then we'll typically have a couple follow ups with the, with the client to kind of see and address any issues that might have come up, as they had kind of tried to include a lot of the new philosophy into their playing or practice on it.

Douglas Maida: 27:18

So Ina, is this this sounds like it's very high performance based? Is there an application or the ability for, say, a more recreational player or an aspiring Junior player to be able to benefit from this type of programming? And how does that kind of work?

Ina Kim: 27:37

Absolutely, we have, you know, we have clients come to us who are, you know, maybe 25 handicaps and their goals are to get to a single single digit handicap or something like that. We have Junior golfers, we have retirees we have, you know, everything, but obviously, we and we have PGA players and LPGA, and all that, but, um, yeah, our clients really run the gamut. So I think everybody can benefit if they love the game, and they want to get better and enjoy the game more. I think that that is really what we can do for them. And, you know, I think that it's funny with with humans, we don't see ourselves accurately. You know, if you look at even poker players these days, they've, you know, who are the most secretive of all sports, right? They even have created rings amongst each other where they say, Hey, I don't see myself accurately and you don't see yourself accurately. So why don't we team up and I'll tell you your faults, you tell me my faults, and we'll kind of like split the money or whatever. And I just think that people are more accepting now that, hey, I I don't really see myself clearly what I think of myself is probably different than what other people see. And so a lot of these people just want and need extra eyes on them to say, Hey, you know, you think that you're a bad ball striker, but actually really good ball striker where you're leakages is you know, your short game, you're spending no time practicing or, you know, whatever, what what have you different scenarios for different people, but ultimately, I think having a good team around you, whether it's your your physical Golf Swing Coach, or a mental coach, or you know, even your you know, fitness instructor or whatever, having all those extra eyes, that's why these these pros have these, you know, teams around them. It's to have these extra eyes because we never see ourselves accurately, myself included. I don't see myself accurately.

Douglas Maida: 29:23

Ina, is there some tips maybe? I know, you probably get asked this all the time when people bump into you on the course or on the range or something. But is there some sort of tips that you could maybe share with somebody or golfers right now just to help get them thinking about their mental approach to golf?

Ina Kim: 29:40

Yeah, you know, I think, you know, the biggest thing at least for me, my biggest takeaway through the whole process was just to ultimately Remember, you know, why you're there you're there to enjoy the game. You're not there to get upset that you missed that birdie putt or that you you hit a slice into the water or whatever, right you're, you're there to enjoy yourself. Don't not enjoy it right? Every every challenge that the game brings you try and accept it and view it as something that is going to teach you something in the future rather than, you know, something bad and negative. And I think that will allow you to really fully enjoy the game a bit more and free you up on the course. Because golf is just such a tough game and it, it really just, it bullies you into, into a lot of you know, corners, and you can't let it right.

Douglas Maida: 30:31

Right. I'm playing. I have a group of guys that we play with. We're somewhat competitive, but it's not really, it's about having fun and supporting each other to play well. But by the same token, you want to or you feel the pressure of wanting to play your best. I come to the 18th tee, I'm leading the group by a stroke. And I'm nervous as heck standing on that 18th tee. What are some tips that I might be mindful of or or keep in the back of my mind as to how I should come up and approach myself on that situation?

Ina Kim: 31:02

Right? So those nerves and we all feel them and it's totally natural, and it's okay. It's it's a natural part of the process. And that just means that you care, which is great. But you know, I think if you can try to remember to play against yourself, and you know, the golf course architect, whether it's Tom Doak or Pete Dye or Jack Nicklaus or you know, what have you. Really, it's you versus yourself, and the course that's it, it doesn't matter what your competitors are doing, because you start playing the competitors, and your emotional rollercoaster profile looks exactly like there's not your own. Right, so you're gonna live and die by their shots. That's not good, right? You don't have control over their shots, but you have control over your own. So you really, you know, I guess that's a two fold answer. I think if you can try and play within yourself at all times, and really react with curiosity, because you know, you hit a bad shot and you're just playing against yourself and pizza, you don't get upset, you say, Oh, hi, Pete Dye I see what you did there with that nasty bunker, you got me this time, but I'm gonna get you next time. That's a completely different way of reacting, then. crap I hit in the bunker, and you know, that was a terrible swing, and then you go down this, you know, technical rabbit hole when you're sitting was fine. It's just a bad bad swing, that's fine, that happens. You can't play a whole entire round and not expect to have a single bad swing. So really, I think it it's this positive kind of tailspin into Alright, well, I'm going to react with curiosity instead of anger. And then when I react with curiosity, it gets you more more into the into the golf course and into the architect, then there's not that negative, you know, repercussion of you know, questioning everything and and kind of reinventing the wheel of your swing, while you're in the middle of the golf course, . . .

Shayain G.: 32:45

I love that ... playing the architect.

Ina Kim: 32:49

Absolutely.

Shayain G.: 32:49

I never heard of that way. I guess I have one too. But I'm kind of going back to your finance days, I'm, I'm really passionate about women in the corporate world learning the game of golf. Because I have been in the corporate world as well. Now I teach it before, I used to work for tons of the professional sports teams. And I used to insert myself into charity golf tournaments and closing business deals on the course and things. So just from your experience in working in finance, did you ever have opportunity or create opportunities to take your clients on to the golf course to maybe perhaps close a deal or to network or whatever the case was.

Ina Kim: 33:29

So if I'm perfectly honest, I didn't get to play that much golf from from my job because I was in trading. So I was pretty much my trading desk, like trading hours. So it wasn't, it wasn't one of those jobs where I could leave for, you know, six hours, during in the middle of the day. And and, you know, my work would be there. When I got back it was it was, you know, market open and market closed. So unfortunately, I didn't get to do a ton of that. But I definitely would say there was that benefit of, you know, being able to walk into a room and somebody said, Oh, that's that's the girl that plays golf, you know, so you have this kind of like notoriety, I guess, in a way and you knew if you had to go to a golf course, and for you know, the occasional corporate outing, which I did have to do, or you know, I got to do right or not have to, that I got to do, then that was always super fun. And it's nice to be able to be natural, and be on the course and be able to handle yourself and not get nervous and all that kind of stuff. So that would highly recommend it to all women who are even remotely interested. I think it's never a bad thing. Never a bad skill to learn. Because there are a lot of, you know, jobs that that do close deals on the golf course. So

Shayain G.: 34:38

great.

Douglas Maida: 34:39

Yeah. Terrific. One last question for you. Well, I have you Ina, you started off by describing the program that at Fearless Golf by having an an online component that everybody kind of goes through to have a bit of a grounding in mental performance, coaching and the aspects after that, how often would it be that you have a more individualized focus with your clients? Or is it kind of like, here's your curriculum, I think you were saying it doesn't have a curriculum, that cookie cutter approach. It's more

Ina Kim: 35:12

right,

Douglas Maida: 35:13

an individual focus. So how would you, you know, can you maybe add a little bit more?

Ina Kim: 35:18

Absolutely it? It absolutely depends on the individual. A lot of people are super high touch, and they want check ins, you know, every other day. And they really like having eyes on them and all the time. And they like talking and bantering about what's going on. And some people they just like doing the academy and having a couple check ins, and then they're kind of Mia for six months, they'll be Oh, you know what, I have a tournament coming up, can we check in? And that's cool, too. So it really depends on the person and their personality. You know, there's people who are serial golf coach people, they take lessons every single week, three times a week. And then there are some people who just take lessons once every couple months, right. So it, it just depends, it runs the gamut. And we're just there to support our clients. So whatever they need, we try and accommodate.

Douglas Maida: 36:01

So one last thing again, I know you gave the website address. Oh, but how does one want to? If one wants to do this? How would they connect with you Ina? What's the best way?

Ina Kim: 36:10

So? Yeah, I mean, the fearless golf comm is probably the easiest if they want to book but if they have questions, they can absolutely find me directly on Fearless Golf Coach on Instagram. And I will answer whatever questions they may have through that. So it's Fearless Golf Coach on Instagram or www.fearlessgolf.com on the internet, or the interweb.

Douglas Maida: 36:33

Well, thank you very much Ina, that's been a great session. Is there anything else you'd like to add to the show or any other comments or nuggets of advice you might want to share?

Ina Kim: 36:43

Oh, gosh, I don't know about nuggets. But I just I'm really thankful to be here. And you know, if you'd told me five years ago that I would be on a podcast talking about mental golf coaching, I would have said get out of town. So you know, just follow your passion, whoever whoever's listening and, and hopefully, you know, I think passion always tends to shine through no matter who you are. And it takes you to great places. And it. So keep at it, whatever you're doing.

Douglas Maida: 37:09

And so what's next for you Ina?

Ina Kim: 37:12

What is next? You know, I don't have a whole lot to be honest. until probably I want to say end of May. I'll have a tournament up in North Carolina and then New York. So kind of my tournament season starts a bit later this year than the normal but yeah, I'll just I'll go see my family. And that's tough because of quarantine and all that. So if I want to see my family Next, I'll have to take a full month off. Because I've had a quarantine for two weeks in California before I see them and all that. So it's a big, you know, it's a big tip to try and go see them, unfortunately. So I'll have to do that at some point. And then, yeah, so I'll try and do that before the season starts. Maybe. So I'm not so rusty going into tournaments, but at least I can work remotely. That's Sure.

Shayain G.: 37:57

Yeah.

Douglas Maida: 37:57

Terrific. Well, thank you so much.

Ina Kim: 37:59

Thank you guys so much for having me on. It was so nice to get to see you. Oh, while we do this. I know. I know. The the listeners don't get to see us. But it's nice to put this Yeah,

Douglas Maida: 38:08

yes. Thank you very much. And thank you for shining a light and providing some insight into the wonderful world of mental performance and mental performance and golf because that's, uh, unfortunately, it's known I think, but it's kind of like, on the periphery a little bit. It's still hasn't become

Ina Kim: 38:25

Yeah, it's definitely neglected. The nice thing is again, like, you know, back in the day, if you want if you were seeing a sports psychologist, like you would be embarrassed right to even be seeing, you know, all gotta see a shrink about this. But now it's like so accepted.

Shayain G.: 38:41

Yeah, yeah.

Ina Kim: 38:44

I got five cards. Which one do you want? Do you want to see? So? So I think it's good and bad, right. But I do think that obviously, I'm biased because I have benefited so much from it. And it's such a passion of mine. And, you know, we were at a web tournament web.com I guess it's Korn ferry now Korn ferry tournament helping one of our clients last weekend, man, the transformation that you get to see is just absolutely incredible. And it's so gratifying. So I just, I'm very lucky to be part of tastic wonderful.

Shayain G.: 39:13

I can't wait to see your journey. It's gonna be cool to see all the great things. Yeah, for sure.

Ina Kim: 39:18

Thank you so much. Thank you. I really appreciate it, guys.

Douglas Maida: 39:21

Well, thank you so much for taking your time out of your busy schedule to join.

Ina Kim: 39:25

Thank you guys. Take care, stay warm.

Douglas Maida: 39:29

And that Ladies and gentlemen, concludes our show today. Thank you so much for listening to us and downloading our podcast. Again. We couldn't have been able to bring you shows like this if it hadn't been for your support. So thank you very much. We look forward to chatting with you again next. And remember, try to keep that golf ball on the short grass. Have a good day. Bye bye.

Amy (Studio): 39:51

You are listening to we're talking golf produced by the world of golf. This episode was recorded on February 24 2021. If you have an idea for a future show, please send us an email to info at World of golf.org. Please include podcast show in the subject line. This show is the copyright of the world. Thank you for listening