Breaking Barriers: A Conversation with Endurance Runner Sophie Power

In this episode, Charlie and Claire welcome ultra marathon runner, Sophie Power, as she shares her unique experiences around pregnancy and racing. Sophie caught the world's attention when a photo of her breastfeeding during the UTMB race went viral.

She explains the story behind the photo, revealing the roadblocks she faced from race organisers due to her pregnancy and the subsequent impact on her decision to run the UTMB race with her three-month-old baby.

Additionally, Sophie discusses the stigmas and barriers women face in sports and as mothers, her advocacy work like she races, her struggles with regaining fitness after pregnancy, and the importance of setting personal and family goals. Sophie also shares her book recommendations to educate women about their bodies and their health as athletes.

Highlights:

• Discussing the Iconic UTMB Race Photo
• The Story Behind the Viral Photo
• Post-Pregnancy Training for a 106 Mile Mountain Race
• The Role of Women in Ultra Running
• The Impact of the Iconic UTMB Race Photo
• Barriers for Women in Sports
• Inclusive Changes in Race Policies
• Balancing Motherhood and Athletic Goals

Contact Sophie Power: LinkedIn | Website

Sophie Power is a remarkable British ultrarunner and a mother of three. Sophie's extraordinary journey in the world of ultrarunning has been a source of inspiration for many. Her fame skyrocketed when a photo of her breastfeeding her 3-month-old during the grueling 106-mile Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc (UTMB) went viral in 2018. This powerful image not only showcased her incredible determination but also highlighted the unique challenges faced by female athletes, especially mothers, in balancing the demands of endurance sports with family life. Sophie's experience has ignited important conversations about the inclusion and support of women in endurance sports, advocating for greater equality and facilities for mothers. Beyond her athletic prowess, she is a beacon of empowerment, encouraging women to maintain an active lifestyle for both physical and mental health. Despite the demands of motherhood and work, Sophie has recently returned to running postpartum and has released a film documenting her journey. In this episode, we delve into Sophie's experiences with racing while breastfeeding, her ongoing campaign for fairness in sport, and how she navigates the mental challenges of 24-hour races. Join us as we explore the resilient world of Sophie Power, a woman who runs not just races, but also a campaign for change in the world of sports.

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Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:04

I'm Charlie Meding and I'm Claire Fudge.

Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to the business of endurance.

Speaker 3: 0:16

What I didn't realise was that the image went out associated press so any organisation could use it, and my life went absolutely bananas. I wasn't a runner growing up, I was the anti-runner. I was second last in my school. I never did any exercise.

Speaker 1: 0:40

In this episode of the podcast, we're joined by Sophie Power, a remarkable British ultra-runner and a mother of three. Sophie's extraordinary journey in the world of ultra-running has been a source of inspiration for many. Her fame skyrocketed when a photo of her breastfeeding her three-month-old during the gruelling 106 mile ultra-trailed Mont Blanc or UTMB as it's known. That photo went viral in 2018. This powerful image not only showcased her incredible determination, but also highlighted the unique challenges faced by female athletes, especially mothers, in balancing demands of endurance sports with family life.

Speaker 1: 1:18

Sophie's experience has ignited important conversations about the inclusion and support of women in endurance sports, advocating for greater equality and facilities for mothers. Beyond her athletic prowess, she is a beacon of empowerment, encouraging women to maintain an active lifestyle for both physical and mental health, despite the demands of motherhood and work. Sophie's recently returned to running postpartum and has released a film documenting her journey. In this episode, we delve into Sophie's experiences with racing whilst breastfeeding, her ongoing campaign for fairness in sport and how she navigates the mental challenges of 24-hour races. Join us as we explore the resilient world of Sophie Power, a woman who runs not just races but also a campaign for change in the world of sports.

Speaker 2: 2:10

In this episode Sophie talks quite a bit about fitting in her family life around her training, or her training around her family life. And if you stick around until the end, I am going to give you something that will help you, to give you some ideas to fuel your training a little bit more efficiently and very easily.

Speaker 1: 2:30

The Sophie welcome to the Business of Endurance podcast, really looking forward to chatting to you, and I think we've got some really interesting things to talk about today, but a lot of them around the concept of racing or dealing with life around pregnancy and children. So I think this is going to be. As a parent myself, I know that there's going to be loads to take away from it. So let's start this conversation off with that photo. There is an incredible photo of you breastfeeding at the UTMB race and it had you rise to prominence in a way that I don't think you had expected to. So give us the pre-story to what happened in the lead up to why that photo was taken, and tell us how it came about and why you were breastfeeding in the UTMB. Well, thank you for having on the podcast.

Speaker 3: 3:28

It's great to talk to you guys about the story. So his photo, if anyone hasn't seen it is at the halfway point of UTMB. It's in Kormaya and I'm breastfeeding my three month old baby and pumping the other side and there's a guy with his feet up next to him because he's having a nap, because we'd be running through the night and really I quite like to be having a nap but I had feeding business to do so. The reason I'm there and I would never condemn running a hundred six mile mountain race for the three month old baby is because I've lost my place to run at that race. It's an iconic race. Most people would have heard of it.

Speaker 3: 4:09

Four years before I was pregnant with my first son and they said I couldn't defend my entry because if I was injured I could have decided it. But apparently especially timing which if you've ever tried to have children, you'll know that definitely not a choice on the timing and they refused and it took me four more years to get a place at this dream goal race of mine. I've been running ultra running a few years before then and this is what I was working up to. So I got an automatic place because I'd missed out two years on. Their own Rules then were you can have a place the year after. I thought I'd have a baby, a much older baby, on the start line, but it didn't work that way and they refused again. They hadn't put a policy in place, so I had the choice of losing my opportunity again. Or my initial goal was to just experience that start line and the incredible atmosphere around it and maybe get 10 K and just have a family holiday in Shemini and use it as a focus to stay fit during my pregnancy, to stay active and then to have a really strong and focus on my recovery.

Speaker 3: 5:17

So what happened was I got to Shemini at the start of the week, thinking I'd run 10 K and then finish the race, and my three year old he saw the other races finishing earlier in the week and he saw these children running down the finish line with their parents and he said, wow, it's going to be me, it's going to be me, I'm going to run this, you're going to finish the race. And I was like I'm like, oh, I've got to get around 106 miles and that was it. It was he wanted to. He wanted me to run with him down the finish line and I was never going to let my three year old down.

Speaker 3: 5:52

So I ended up having to run and my three month old was exclusively breastfed and I had to manage pumping, squeezing out behind trees because I couldn't get, my husband couldn't get a baby or a pump to me for the first, going to 16 hours, and that's what happened. So my goal was to finish eventually. But really, if I wanted to finish that race, I had to breastfeed, I had to fuel properly, I had to think of all these things that I would never have to think of if I did the race again.

Speaker 1: 6:21

It is quite amazing and this prompts so many questions which I think we need to head, but it is quite amazing just before we go on to the politics of it and everything else. How do you train so that you could finish a 106 mile mountain race three months after giving birth? I think that's. The first thing that stands out to me is like how on earth do you even think about doing that?

Speaker 3: 6:44

Especially with ultra running. A lot of people think it's marathon running plus. It's a longer distance, you've got to be fitter, you've got to be faster and, if anything, it's absolutely opposite. So we'll put 106 miles aside with you like a 30 mile race, and marathon might have a six hour 30 cutoff. A 30 mile race we've got ones in the UK that we'll talk about. She races later but have no cutoff. So you could take 14, 15 hours and as long as you're moving, you're going to finish that race. Now we look at the UTMB. The cutoff is 46 and a half hours. You can walk UTMB and people don't like to mention that but I do because I think it's a huge barrier, especially for women in trying to enter these events and there's less than 10% of women usually on the UTMB start line.

Speaker 3: 7:29

If you're a good hiker you could finish almost any ultra marathon in the world and I knew I was a good hiker. I also knew that my pelvis wasn't fully back together. So whereas I would be running a lot before in a race, I'd run a lot of UTMB now. I couldn't risk that. I couldn't run the downrails because it was too much of a risk, because I was too much relaxed in my system and I hadn't healed, so I knew that if I kept hiking well, stopping for the feeding minimizing time half the fields finish after 40 hours. So that's two and a half miles an hour. Half the field are going slower than that. I got through in 43 and a half. So it was all about taking as much time as I could at checkpoints, eating as much as I could, trying to fuel myself, fuel my baby, hydrate, be really careful. But these races are very doable If you're absolutely stubborn and you can keep yourself moving forward and manage yourself.

Speaker 1: 8:21

These races are accessible to most people and is that why females are often better at ultra running than men in many senses. Because are females better at dealing with that pacing if that's a slow pace? Are they better at dealing with that pacing than the guys?

Speaker 3: 8:37

I think we have less of an ego than men in general and we don't go out too fast and blow ourselves up or make mistakes early on that you often see men that have gone out too fast in a hot environment. They may get heat stroke. I think, anecdotally, women see you better at controlling themselves and go. I need to take the time and the shade I need to cool myself down. I need to not let myself be swept up with wanting to go a certain pace or keep up with certain people. So there's certainly that and there's definitely skill sets of motherhood, of managing yourself and several other people that it's much easier to then just manage yourself in a race. So there's definitely that there's always going to be that physiological gap of performance between men and women.

Speaker 3: 9:20

You still see, kind of Jim Womsey is several hours ahead of Courtney and now it's interesting, UTMB have adjusted the index so she can account for that and she does come out top and Camille is actually second. But we do, we are very when we enter a race, especially the super long races. Now, since that's it tried to say that over races over 195 miles plus, women are faster than men. We're not, but you just get a better quality of women relatively entering that because we've really thought about what we need to do to finish that race and we potentially prepared better and not gone. My mate at the club has signed up for it, so I'm going to sign up to we tend to think a little bit more fast.

Speaker 2: 9:58

Do you think there's an element of like confidence in women? Because, just thinking of from a background, in the sports that I do and actually some of the events and things that I try to manage a little bit with our teams of women, it's really difficult to get some women, no matter what that age, to either compete and some of the research and this is really tiny amount of research in terms of what's the barrier to women sometimes doing these events, so, from you working with things like she races as an example, but what have you found out in terms of what is the barrier for some women to be able to either enter these races or enter any race or involve themselves in sport? Oh, go for a question.

Speaker 3: 10:39

I'm a trustee of women in sports, so we an insight, kind of an advocacy charity. We look at women across the spectrum just getting involved in exercise and the lack of opportunities to be able to do so in general, starting so young, even. Just I need primary girls to certainly children as young as five. Girls see themselves as less able at sport than boys and I've got a two year old daughter and it's everything I could do to make sure that she has a very different attitude to average and what can I do to get her there. But I think we look at racism in general.

Speaker 3: 11:09

We know that women are, I think, 51% of runners in the UK, so we are running, so what she races, we did and look at, I guess, moving off from UTMB and the advocacy is like why are women not on these start lines? It's not just pregnancy deferrals, what else is there. And so I surveyed over 2000 women, from 5K to super long distance, from the elite to the back of the pack, as much diversity as we could have and then had a lot more conversations and what is stopping them being on those start lines? And the confidence issue is true and it can. 60% of women have been put off by. Well I think most women have experienced. 96% of women have had a barrier or seen something at a race that wasn't right for them as a woman. But you then look at what are they? And you've got half of the women worried about cutoffs, about not just being able to finish in the first place. That's many times the amount of men that we put off by that. Looking at the logistics of the race, really understanding how that's going to work, how they're going to navigate, how they're going to even get to the start line, looking at the imagery, which doesn't have any women in it because they've put the start line on and all the men have pushed their way to the front so they didn't even see themselves as being belonging on that start line.

Speaker 3: 12:27

And the language around race has been biggest bad, as tough as we're going to cut you off. There's so much wrapped in all of that that stops a woman even signing up to the race in the first place, and then there's so much more on the race that could be more inclusive of women. But there are so many things in us, and so what I love to do is really try and break down the kind of especially with ultramarathans, the barriers to entering them and explain that you can walk these, you can walk them and the aid sessions are great and there's really good cake normally, but there are some real small friendly races out there and as long as you can keep going and thinking about lives as women, we don't necessarily have the time to run hundreds of miles a month, but our lives are often so much more active than men's. We're mothers and we're doing the school run.

Speaker 3: 13:16

I hike up and down hills 20 miles a week on my school runs. Pickups and drop-offs that's training. So I don't have to run as far as a man with that's got a desk job, that's driving there in the week that's my training. Some that I carry my daughter, I'm running around the kids. They're jumping on my back to do planks and press-ups and that's part of life. So really reframing what it means to be fit, what it means to be active, what it means to be able to finish these events, so women can look very different to men.

Speaker 1: 13:46

I think you are an amazing example of allowing them to take that photo. So I know that initially you said you didn't want that photo to be taken. Most women would have said no to that photo. So talk to us a little bit about why you initially thought about saying no and then why you allowed them to take that photo and what's happened as a result.

Speaker 3: 14:06

I was just minding way in business, alan. So next is birds of photographer and he's a phenomenal trail running photographer. I didn't know what he looked like, but you know what the photographer's name is, but you don't know what they look like. So I didn't know it was him. And he asked my husband that he take my hair too. My husband said no, isn't that a bit weird? And I'm tucked away at the side of sports hall like no one else noticed. But he was looking for something and it must have looked quite strange to him. And I just thought, if the race organizer sees us, if they see this, no other mother will have to go to see what I've had to go through. They'll be able to get there to follow, they'll see what's happened and they'll be able to race when they're sick and healthy. And I just thought, if they see it, that policy will get in place the next day and this will change.

Speaker 3: 14:52

And it took five years for UTMB to listen, but other races did it very quickly. And what I didn't realize was that the image went out associated press so any organization could use it. And my life went absolutely bananas for weeks after, and I guess still even now, and we were on live TV in the BBC with Cormac and I, my three month old, explaining what happened and I think partly it was. The images is iconic now and it's such a beautiful photo and so many women see different things in that.

Speaker 3: 15:25

So many women see this powerful image of a woman going after athletic dreams and others see the barriers that are so evident in us participating in sport, participating in life and what we want to do and the story behind it. I shouldn't be in the first place. I wasn't trying to show off and say, look at me running. It was my goal race and I was having a go and I'm not an athlete, so I think it. I think so many things combined to make it go viral and then giving me the platform to then talk about these issues and talk about how do we break down the barriers for women, some mothers let's talk about these issues because we didn't see elite women on the start line that had babies and this is now five years ago and I think the world's changing very quickly since.

Speaker 1: 16:19

As a brief interlude, one of the things that Sophie is talking about is really about the innovation of all of her training around when she was breastfeeding. And we can do this in business and we actually help our clients do this through a tool and our exercise called the game of games. So about how you can create marginal gains in your business and if you want me to talk you through that exercise and actually you can do that exercise yourself and come up with your own games for your business Then if you head to wwwTheTrusted Team, you can join our free online live workshop called Three Steps to Entrepreneurial Happiness and I'll talk you through that exact exercise. So UTMB have just changed, is that right? But other races have changed. Having seen the photos, I know that you've done some Ironman races in the past. Have Ironman done anything about this? Because I know that obviously UTMB is owned by Ironman.

Speaker 3: 17:17

So Ironman. So think back to when I started the advocacy. I think the first battle I had was against London Marathon and that was where they wouldn't defer a good for age entry for a lady. And there were two London Marathons in the same year because of COVID and they said that they can have a place when she's eight weeks postpartum, but not when she was eight months postpartum and because the closer you are to your qualifying time, the more likely you are to repeat it, which really holds unless you've had a baby in between and you need to recover. So that battle was quite fierce and eventually London Marathon conceded and allowed a pregnancy to fire a policy and then actually went to do a lot of other inclusive policies for women, which is fantastic to see now.

Speaker 3: 18:05

And one of my friends went to Ironman and knew someone on the board there and then worked with Ironman to put a policy in place. So Ironman had the policy before UTMB and we wonder whether that was one of the factors in finally listening. But the Ironman policy is not good enough yet because it only gives you a year's deferral and UTMB is giving five, which is phenomenal, but you needed two year deferral at least, because you've got to. If you've just got pregnant and the race is, then you could have a three month old in the start line and it's not normal to be able to race Three months pace part time, especially as I was on trail the Ironman the run route is on concrete. That's a huge amount impact on your body to do that.

Speaker 3: 18:53

So there's a policy in place for Ironman. It's not good enough. It's on my list to have another conversation with him about, because it'd be great for them to fall in line with UTMB. And it's also important to note the line Ironman policy creates partners because it overwhelm when you mail and the last thing a woman wants when you're about to give birth is is is if there's a dad going off to do Ironman race because otherwise he'll lose all his money and his opportunity to race. So that's important to you. Same thing with adopted parents saying the surrogacy triathlons away. Behind the triathlons there's a huge amount of barriers and it's One of the next steps for she races is to really try and look into the barriers in multi-sport events and cycling and see what advice can we give to race directors To break those barriers down, because it's far more complex than just a running race.

Speaker 1: 19:46

So for a just a standard Ironman race. I can see that there's expense involved, but ultimately you can shift to a new race. You can, and sometimes there's expense without. Sometimes you've got the flex 90 policy and things like that. But it's the world championships with the really difficult one, and that's the equivalent of the UTMB, isn't it? It's the qualifying to Get that place and then not being able to defer that, that's the big one, isn't it really?

Speaker 3: 20:13

and we've worked with UTMB on the index and at least they have to do that and it's one of the the parts that's still missing is women coming back, freezing your index, being able to re-enter the sport at the level that you nested, because otherwise you're spending time getting back up to that and the re-qualifications and you're not having the access to those races.

Speaker 3: 20:35

And we need to make a decision that we want mothers to come back to the sport and certainly, if you're having multiple children, you want to get back quickly into the racing because you need to think about your sponsors and your sponsors want you on the biggest start lines and as a woman, I am so inspired by an athlete's a prolific like Chelsea Cedare is the image of her holding her baby, winning the world championships. It means so much to so many women To see her do that and to see her talk about in how she did it and to come back. And it's not just about the elites, it's about every day mum that wants to do her race, whether that's 10k, whether that's a sprint triathlon. Seeing someone else do it at such an elite level gives you so much confidence that you can get back. Then we don't have the teams around us that maybe she did. We've got to make a decision as a sport that we need to support mothers to get back to the elite level.

Speaker 1: 21:32

I remember hearing you say on another podcast that Actually most of the race organiser uplokes and they just haven't thought about this stuff. So if you ask the question, you prompt the thought, don't you? And actually, as long as they're seeing that they're not gaining an advantage by doing something, I suspect they're often. Clearly, they're not always often to change with things like the rules, but they're often probably willing to change if they're asked and made to think about it.

Speaker 3: 21:58

And that's the thing I think for women when we talk about she races and essentially she races as a set of guidelines for racers to be more inclusive for women, and it's got everything to getting more women start line. That the the bar, as I mentioned before, to making the race better for us and then valuing our competition equally to the men's, with equal coverage and prize money, and and and calling our female winner a male winner, but the the middle part of what they can do on the race. Often race directors are saying well, if someone has an issue, why didn't they ask? And Races need to be very clear on their website to say if you have any other needs, please get in contact, and that opens the door for women to say they might say yes, and it's in very different way of framing it.

Speaker 3: 22:41

For example, a lot of race directors said of course I would have allowed a pregnancy to feral. Why did she ask? And and I say well, if you read your policies, it says no refunds or deferrals under any circumstances, so you need to actively write that that if you're pregnant, please contact us and we'll work out with you the best thing to do. It's a very different way of saying things, but it really makes it for women. We're then we're being given permission to ask and have that conversation and the race directors come back all day. We learned from something and we love seniors on our races and we're now actually getting more women on our start line because they're seeing these images of women running with their babies and their children and it seems like a better race for women. So the best for their race is a business. It's also the right thing to do.

Speaker 1: 23:30

How did you feel differently with that race in mind, based on the fact that you were breastfeeding at the time?

Speaker 3: 23:37

I just say a lot more. I think I've learned a lot about fueling in the last few years. I think I love alches because it's a great excuse to eat lots of cake and chocolate bars and all of that stuff. And I guess now I don't race on that. I race far more on depending on the pace. If it's a mountain race, then I eat More the solid foods, but for the 24 There'll be a lot of gels and jam, sandwiches and bars and all of that stuff. So it's a bit less interesting. But it was just eating like you're going very slowly, so your body can burn most of the energy you need from fat and it's just to kind of top up to continue that energy coming through. So for my own Christianity, eating food that's yummy rather than packaged sports stuff that doesn't taste very nice. That was the priority, but I was moving so slowly. You're burning a greater proportion of calories from fat than carbohydrate and you don't need to take in as much as I would be if I was racing, for example.

Speaker 2: 24:35

I was thinking of women that I wanted to maybe did sport before. Now got a family, they're working, maybe their partner's working as well. Is there any advice for them in terms of trying to fit sport or activity in, because I know and I hear a lot of women say I don't have time or they feel guilty about actually even if it's going out for a 30-minute run or going to a local Pilates club. So have you got any tips for them in terms of trying to juggle all of these things, how they might even start to fit that into their day.

Speaker 3: 25:08

I think the first thing is to get buy-ins from the rest of your family. We know that a mother's level of activities linked to her children's, so we want to inspire our children. We need to be active too. Not so much for the dads they're often that I'm training anyway. They didn't stop when they had children. They just kept going, but we stopped. So I think creating buy-in going this is important to me. This is why it's for my physical health, it's for my mental health and it's also for the children.

Speaker 3: 25:34

And I think often women sign up to events. We've had that because they then have that kind of justification to get out of the house, because it's so easy, especially when it's a run and it's not a time in the day. You could do it any time. So you skip it and you don't put it in later, whereas when my husband's meeting his friends to go on a cycle ride, it's that time and he has to do it. So creating those times, having to meet friends for them, having it being a second class, having a coach, I think really helps in this. You've got the plan and you've got someone else to report back to. That you don't want to let down. I don't want to let my coach down. I don't want to let her say I just didn't juggle well enough to get that session in today and then really I think believing that you deserve it is the other thing. We deserve to have a life outside our children.

Speaker 3: 26:21

Yes, being a mother is the most important thing in my life, but I'm a better mother when I have my own goals and the kids kick me out the door to run because they know I'm going to be so much nicer when I get back in the door I have thoughts through all the problems.

Speaker 3: 26:35

I've had that time to myself and at first I really need alone time every day and I get that while running and it's one of the reasons I run and if I didn't run, I would cycle, I would hike, I would do something to be in nature. So I think it's just saying to them go. This is really important for me. Getting there by and saying you guys have bought into my goal as well. Here's my race or here's my target to run 5k or to complete park run in 40 minutes or something, and having them support that and being when you're or I'm not sure I'm going to get out the door, then go. Actually I can take this out to you or we can juggle this and like let's make sure that you are our priority for once, because all the time, as a mum, generally, everyone else is your priority and not yourself.

Speaker 2: 27:15

I love that idea also of having, like we talk about goals a lot and Charlie's a huge fan of goal setting. He's probably the king of goal setting.

Speaker 1: 27:23

I was probably in my next question when I was about to go in there.

Speaker 2: 27:25

Carry on. But now I love the idea of like for especially women coming back into sports and almost for them to allow themselves to be able to have that time. I think a goal is really a really good idea. Even having something like park run 5k to be able to go and do I think is a brilliant idea. I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 1: 27:44

An analogy I use sometimes is putting in a face mask on yourself first, like on the airplane. They say good, put the face mask on yourself first before you help your children, because otherwise you know use and it's the same. With that You've got to do what kind of keeps you fit, healthy, stress free or less stressed, first to be the best parent that you can be. You've mentioned goals a few times. Can't let that slip without asking. It sounds like you guys have a family process to goal setting. What does goal setting look like in the power household?

Speaker 3: 28:12

Oh God the kids got loads of goals. My Aero had the goal to win the star pair of the week at football camp and he was like going, he was breaking it down strategically as to all the different attributes that he had to show in the sportsmanship and this and that and the other, and like the being the best goalkeeper was brilliant. I was so proud of him breaking it down every day. I think I've moved a step forward to star player and he won at the end. He was so proud of himself and I was like, wow, this is really cool. I think the goals. I think for me, the athlete side has come up.

Speaker 3: 28:42

Okay, before Hubby and I said before we had kids, I did an Ironman because I signed up when I was drunk and I couldn't swim more than 25 meters and my hubby was like you've never been on your bike before. So we used to do Ironman together and I'd started archery at the same time and it used to be quite balanced. We used to do the stage races away as our holiday and then it's only I think after I had I could have called me can you team be that Me as an athlete going to talk whole? And I started getting some really good performances and actually since I had Sirsha, so she's almost three now and now about to commit for a great brilliant for the second time. So the athletic goal for me there's looking at what excites me, but I think also what gives me a platform to be able to talk about women and how other women in sport and I know that putting a DB best on and coming on podcasts like this and I can then help others, setting my goals about being able to better help others and my sporting goals about giving the platform, that's really important to me. Would I be voluntarily always running 24 hours, but I didn't think that was going to help other people? Probably not. It's a really tough race but for me it's more important that I do that and I think having these goals, sporting it's having fun, it's keeping fit.

Speaker 3: 30:04

We're looking at challenges for him for next year and he definitely loves a challenge, but he's not going to probably be at the same level as I think he is. I am now running and so they're quite separate, but we're looking at again the Fred Witton I think will be really fun for him. I like the up only races because I don't want him fully on his bike in a descent and then we have something like this again. I don't want that. I think he's going to be worth racing because he can't fall off the tarot, can he? It's interesting because we're looking at next year. And what do I do next year and what can I do? That excites me and it's also something that can really support. She races and getting a message out.

Speaker 1: 30:42

I think that's brilliant. Now, one of the traditions we have on this podcast is to get the previous guest to ask the next guest a question without knowing who that will be. So the previous guest was Joe DeSena, the founder of Spartan Races, and I think, claire, I think you have Joe's question, don't?

Speaker 2: 30:58

you Yep? Joe asks what decision do you wish you'd taken as a young person? Well more sunscreen.

Speaker 3: 31:05

Isn't there a solar? Yeah, there is, and I wish I'd listened to it when it came out and I guess that's an obvious one. My dad told me recently I'm a high risk of skin cancer. That runs in our family and I'm like, why did you tell me when I'm 41? You could have told me just 10 years ago and obviously it's chauvinist and athletes were outside at the time. So I wish I'd done more of that.

Speaker 3: 31:29

But I think for me it's probably most fallowing my body for what it can do, not what it looks like. Taking that conscious decision that my body is so important to everything I do. And I grew up overweight and I didn't do any activity, so I guess I admit it, I wasn't a runner growing up, I was the anti-runner. I was second last at the violet school. I never did any exercise until I got to university and did a bit of bug-been bowing but I accidentally fell into running and I wish that I'd taken decision as a young woman to say my body's important and I'm going to be strong and I'm going to have confidence in what it can do and I'm not going to care what anyone thinks I look like and not listen to what I would say but I'm going to use this because when I'm 70, 80, I still want to be fit and I want to be carrying out my life to you, the best kind of all the experience I want to have.

Speaker 3: 32:27

I still want to be able to physically fit to have them. So I think if I take in that decision, I'd have lost probably 20 years of dieting that I didn't need to have. And now, with my daughter, it's really important to be a good role model to her and to show her that this is how we should think. But if only I'd had that role model in my life or been able to take decision that what I can do matters and my body is so important and I want to be strong and I want to be fit and I want to do exercise, that would have changed a lot of things in life, made it probably a lot easier with one hour, but then I guess we'd greater adversity, say you never know.

Speaker 1: 33:03

Brilliant advice and, as the dad of two teenage girls, I think we're making sure they listen to this episode in particular, because I think it's really brilliant advice. Thank you. One other thing that we asked everyone to do is for book recommendations, books that they found helpful. You mentioned one a minute ago. I was going to ask you to give me the tightly and around the sustainable runner because I only caught part of it. What was that book that you mentioned?

Speaker 3: 33:24

So it's called Becoming a Sustainable Runner by Tina Muir and Zerry Roman. It's part environmental but part really about the self, and it's just a really. There's lots of exercises in there as well to really think about how you place yourself within your sport and your life. So it's one I really love, and it's just that I was lucky to read it before it came out and lucky to read it before I ran my PB, because I think it helped me towards that.

Speaker 1: 33:46

Awesome. So are there other books that you found really helpful on your journey as a runner or as a mum?

Speaker 3: 33:52

Oh, got it Well. So my own physio book called why Did no One Tell Me she's called Emma Brockwell and it's every single woman that becomes pregnant. I shoved this in their hand because it's everything that I wish I'd known about pelvic health and prolapses that they never tell you. They never tell you and we should all learn it at school. So there's a growing amount of work about female physiology that we should all read. There's a female athlete Bible as well. Stacey Sims has got great books out Raw, I think, for every woman.

Speaker 3: 34:24

Really learning as much as you possibly can about your body can really empower you through your training and confidence, especially as I guess the next stage I'm definitely not having any more kids, but the next stage for me would be the menopause and trying to read as much as I can about that. I saw it I got a perimenopause and the menopause hit. So I'm really prepared and knowing that I need to do a lot more. I love strength training, but even more and even more protein, just to make sure that I'm still running these events when I'm 70, 80 years old.

Speaker 1: 34:53

Awesome, absolutely brilliant. I think this has been so much better, really valuable advice in this episode, so so. So thank you so much for your time. I'm gonna be looking out for you at the world championships with eager interest. I have no concept that I have no plan to do a 24 hour race, that that just seems like a new level of torture, but I think it's incredible that you do them and I'll be. I wish you every success with that, with she races and with changing the world of endurance sport to better support the female athletes, particularly around pregnancy.

Speaker 3: 35:25

Thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 2: 35:33

So I promised you at the beginning of this podcast that I would give you something as a really quick and easy guide to be able to fuel yourself both before and after training without lots of hassle. So at Force Discipline, with our athletes and our clients, we often use really quick go to guide. So if you look in the show notes, you can click on the Force Discipline link and you'll find a link to the download which will give you access to pre and post training snacks. They're really quick go to guides that most of our athletes are using on a day to day basis, taking the hassle out of thinking.

Speaker 1: 36:09

So what did you make of that chat with Sophie?

Speaker 2: 36:11

I thought it was great. I love hearing some of the stories that she had, but not only her experience of being a mum and obviously from that famous photo of her breastfeeding, but actually what she's now doing with that. But it's given her this amazing platform to actually talk to race directors, talk about what she's passionate about. So, yeah, I thought it was great to have a chat with her and hear what she's trying to do for other women.

Speaker 1: 36:35

Well, I'm not only just trying but succeeding actually, because the fact that a certain race has changed quite quickly but it's taken five years to get the very race that she was actually in you know that photo was taken from to change is remarkable. So I think it's absolutely brilliant. I also loved being a person with a family, a business and trying to do the training, that just the acceptance that you know, firstly it's about. There's a bit of compromise in everything to get it all done. Also, the fact that you're going to have to make some sacrifices, and if that's watching TV and going to the pub, you know, or a thing, then actually that's just, it's just about and actually that's all, because she's good and focused on goal setting, so she knows what's really important. Therefore, it's easier to say no to the stuff that isn't important. So, really good. And I still think it's remarkable that she managed to do that race. I know she played it down a bit, but to be able to do 106 miles three months after giving birth is pretty impressive, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 37:33

I think it's inspiring to. I think it's inspiring to other women to be able to think actually I could do it and it's not a barrier to thinking that it's possible and not any is it possible, but actually is it possible after somebody's been out of maybe their full-time job and out of training, that can I go back into doing it. So I think for me that was inspiring and I would imagine she's inspiring hundreds and hundreds of other women, which is fantastic.

Speaker 1: 37:59

Another excellent episode and interview on the podcast business of endurance. So for everybody, in the meantime, until the next episode, keep on training If you want us to keep getting amazing guests onto the business of endurance podcast. We don't ask for you to pay for us, we don't ask for patronage. All we ask for is that you subscribe to the podcast, ideally on Apple. Give us a five star rating because it shows us you care, and, if you've got time, leave us a comment. One word is fine, something like inspiring or amazing or something like that, but we really do appreciate it and it will help us to continue to deliver amazing guests on what we hope you find to be an amazing podcast. Thanks very much.