The Growth Mindset Journey in Endurance Sports with India Lee

In this episode, Charlie and Claire welcome professional triathlete India Lee to discuss her journey from a shy childhood and her aversion to drama classes, to endurance sports and beyond. Indie earned a scholarship for competitive athletics in the U.S.
 
Discussing the intense yet enriching experience of college sports and its impact on young athletes, Indie sheds light on the different cultures of sports in the UK and the U.S.

After experimenting with short and middle-distance triathlon, she has now moved on to the long course triathlons. Indie shares exciting insights from her time in Kona, her shift in perception about the place, and discusses her anticipation for the races to come.

Indie also touches upon the importance of having a supportive tribe and strategic approach to improving race performance. Her growth mindset, resilience, and continuous learning approach in sports is something we can all learn from.

Highlights:

• Childhood and Getting into Running
• Transitioning from Running to Swimming
• University Experience and U.S. Scholarship
• Intense Training and Cultural Differences
• Transitioning into Triathlon
• Challenges and Support in Triathlon
• Experiences in Ironman and Kona
• Learning from Others and Personal Growth
• Challenges of Flying with a Bike

Contact India Lee: LinkedIn | Wikipedia
India Lee, or Indie as she prefers to be known, is a British triathlete renowned for her versatility and strength in multisport events. With a passion for sport deeply ingrained from a young age, Indie has evolved from a runner in her younger days to a world class triathlete. Her journey in this gruelling sport reflects not only her love for competition but also her zest for life, finding joy in travelling the world and immersing herself in the triathlon lifestyle. Indie is known for her fierce independence, her love for cycling, and a deep bond with her dog, Ruby. With a unique ability to fix anything that's broken, she embodies a spirit that's both determined and reflective, and is as good an example of a growth mindset as you will see. Lee's career took a significant turn in 2018 when she stepped up to middle-distance racing, promptly making a mark with her victory at Ironman 70.3 Weymouth. Her accolades include being a double European champion, and her transition to Ironman racing suggests more exciting chapters ahead. Notably, she also played a pivotal role in pacing Kat Matthews during the historic Sub8 challenge. In this episode, we discuss the benefit of a growth mindset, the benefits of doing your own mechanics.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

I'm Charlie Menning and I'm Claire Fudge. Welcome to the business of endurance.

Speaker 3: 0:16

So I used to escape from my drama lesson and go and run laps around the field instead of trying to get house points. Pe teachers did help me get away with it. I was offered a scholarship to Iowa State and I spent two years over there and then when I came back, he said to me why don't you have a look at triathlon?

Speaker 1: 0:44

India. Lee, or Indy as she prefers to be known, is a British triathlete renowned for her versatility and strength in multi-sport events. With a passion for sport deeply ingrained from a young age, indy's evolved from a runner in her younger days into a world-class triathlete. Her journey in this gruelling sport reflects not only her love for competition, but also her zest for life, finding joy in travelling the world and immersing herself in the triathlon lifestyle. Indy's known for her fierce independence, her love for cycling and a deep bond with her dog, ruby. With a unique ability to fix anything that's broken, she embodies a spirit that's both determined and reflective, and is as good an example of a growth mindset.

Speaker 1: 1:28

As you will see, lee's career took a significant turn in 2018 when she stepped up to the middle distance racing, probably making a mark with her victory at Ironman 70.3 Weymouth. Her accolades include being a double European champion, and her transition to Ironman racing suggests more exciting chapters ahead. Notably, she also played a pivotal role in Kat Matthews' successful sub-8 challenge. So in this episode, tara and I got to discuss the benefits of a growth mindset and also the benefits of doing your own mechanics. So I know you're going to love the energy and enthusiasm demonstrated in this episode with Indy Lee.

Speaker 2: 2:12

In this episode with Indy, we talked quite a bit about her knowledge of the mechanics on her bike and if you stay around until the end, I am going to give you access to a webinar which will give you some increased knowledge. So stick with us.

Speaker 1: 2:37

So, indy, welcome to the business of endurance podcast, really looking forward to chatting to you. I know there's going to be loads to talk about today, but I really liked starting these episodes off with the story, and I love the story of you getting into running because it was about avoiding drama. Now, we're all keen to avoid drama in our lives, but tell us about how you got into running and how you were avoiding drama.

Speaker 3: 3:00

Well, thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to have a good chat. Yeah, I first got into running back when I was in primary school, so I was probably like seven or eight, and I was quite a shy child and my friends like to laugh because on another podcast I jaked about the fact that I was mute until I was five, which isn't very far away from completely true. So they laugh at me for that. But to try and give me a bit of confidence in public speaking, my parents signed me up for extra like speech and drama lessons, so like learning how to speak in public. I guess I was quite against it because I knew at lunchtime you could earn house points by running laps of the field around school, and so I used to escape from my drama lesson and go and run laps around the field instead to try and get house points. Luckily, the PE teacher was on my side and so he used to help me get away with it.

Speaker 1: 3:59

And how did that transition into you becoming? Because you were predominantly a runner in your youth, weren't you? So tell us a bit about how you're running, transitioned and I think you ended up with a US scholarship. So tell us a little bit about the background.

Speaker 3: 4:12

Yeah, so I guess the abbreviated version is I was at the prep school. That I was out was quite sporty and our PE teacher was really encouraging of giving us opportunities to do sport at a higher level than just like the local league, and so we had quite a good swimming squad. So I started off as a swimmer. Well, I started taking swimming seriously first, and then that led me into taking running seriously, and then I chose running over swimming, and so from the age of 14, I guess, I was like a super competitive runner to get pretty seriously all through school. And then I went to university in the UK, I went to Southampton and graduated from there, and then I was offered a scholarship to go to the US to do two years in the US, which, yeah, I went over to Iowa State and I spent two years over there running on the Traffin cross country team, which was pretty intense but also a great opportunity and I learned a lot from it.

Speaker 1: 5:15

I've read bits about this. It's a very different culture to what we have over here in the UK, isn't it? So tell us a bit about what it was like to be doing that scholarship. You know you said it was intense, but what do you mean by that?

Speaker 3: 5:27

Yeah, it was super intense. I guess the culture of college sport or university sport in the US is quite different to how it is here, because a lot of young athletes will have the aim of getting a scholarship to get them through university, to pay for their fees and things like that, because that's their way of getting to university. And then once they're there and on a team, it's like the end of their athletic career is when they finish university. They don't really see past it as continuing on after university. So it's kind of like you're all in for those university years to get the most out of yourself and it doesn't matter if you're completely broken by the end of it, because it's unlikely that you're going to carry on being an athlete after university. So when you're there, it's wow, ok, everyone's just giving everything all the time and it can either be a really positive thing or it can turn into something that's maybe a bit too much.

Speaker 1: 6:27

And it seems slightly weird when you apply that to the world of endurance sport, because the world of endurance sport, I mean, you know, when you're at university age, you're not even anywhere close to hitting your peak for endurance sport, are you? So how does that work? From what sort of distances were you typically running in those days?

Speaker 3: 6:46

I was running cross country, which was 6K, and then on the track I'd run 3K and 5K, but then there's the option to run a 10K and a lot of people would run 10K because that's an option. But I guess the culture in the UK is that you don't really run 10K on the track until you're a bit older, certainly like after university age. But yeah, it was, the competitions were fine, it was more the training. That was quite a lot. The age that I was, the age that I was, in my opinion, for the age that I, was at.

Speaker 2: 7:18

What kind of support did you get? Because I know in the UK for sort of like the younger levels now there's a lot more support than there used to be. But did you get you know, from a university perspective, were you getting sort of support from physios and S&C coaches and nutritionists? Was there all of that kind of layer to it as well?

Speaker 3: 7:36

Oh yeah, I guess it was like the next best thing to being a professional athlete. It's probably better than being a professional athlete because it's all there for you and it's all put on. Yeah, we had nutritionists, s&c coaches, a team of coaches, like there was the head coach and then assistant coaches. So, yeah, like you had everything you needed and everything was catered to. So it was. Yeah, looking back now, I think I probably would have approached it differently to how I did and seeing how much of an opportunity it was. But yeah, when you're in it, it was. I guess it was a bit overwhelming really, like I didn't really know what to do with the opportunity I had. I didn't know what to do with myself.

Speaker 1: 8:17

It must be an amazing opportunity. I mean, do you look back on that fit and think that you learned a huge amount in that time, or do you think you didn't like you say, maybe didn't maximize the opportunity?

Speaker 3: 8:29

I think I learned. I did learn a huge amount. Yeah, I learned a huge amount, but I think I wasn't in a position to be able to capitalize on it, because maybe I was too young to appreciate the opportunity that I had in front of me, or I was maybe too short-sighted, maybe I'm not sure.

Speaker 1: 8:49

Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? University comes at a funny age. It's. We're too young to appreciate it, aren't we? You almost kind of, I mean God. If I could go back to my time at university now, I would do it so differently.

Speaker 3: 9:03

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 9:04

So how did you transform from being a runner with a bit of swimming? How did you suddenly find yourself falling into the world of triathlon?

Speaker 3: 9:12

Well, I got well. I went through the whole university and American thing and fortunately I had my coach at the time, a guy called Nick Anderson. He'd coached me since I was 13. And he'd always coach me until I went to the US and then I threw myself into the US thing, but he was always kind of keeping an eye on me in the background. And then when I came back I was just completely done with running because I'd done too much of it. I was a bit broken, I was yeah, I was just I wasn't interested.

Speaker 3: 9:46

And he said to me which now, when I look back, I'm so grateful for, because he was just trying to keep me in sport he said to me why don't you have a look at having a go at a triathlon? And so I was like, oh, I'm not really sure, I haven't swam in years, like don't ride a bike. And he said why don't you just give it a go? So then off I went and entered Blenheim and then got a bit carried away once I started training because I realised I really loved it and then got competitive and then wanted to do really well at Blenheim. And then, yeah, and then it all snowballed from there. I was a bit overwhelmed in the swim, but then after that I think it was motivating for me because after the swim I was moving through the field and that's quite a fun feeling, isn't it, when you're going past people, and then I think I ended up I think it was 12 in the elite race, so it was a solid for me. That was like whoa like.

Speaker 1: 10:42

First triathlon?

Speaker 2: 10:43

Yeah, that's pretty good going, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 10:45

That's pretty motivating, I think. So I guess that just got me hooked. I thought, oh, maybe I could be, maybe I could be good at this if I trained a bit more.

Speaker 1: 10:53

So obviously you did train a bit more and you started making some progress. So tell us about how you found the story behind how you found yourself at the Rio Testament.

Speaker 3: 11:03

Yeah, so British triathlon when it's coming up to the Olympics and Olympic qualification. Back in those days in 2015, I think it was, they had a gateway event which was an opportunity for people who aren't on the national squad or who are able to qualify for the World Series races, to get into a race to then potentially qualify for the Olympic team. And I'd signed up to do a European Cup, not knowing any of that, not like it wasn't even on my radar. So I signed up for this European Cup and I finished third, which was a big improvement for me because it was I think it was like the third race of that level that I'd done and I wasn't expecting to come third, like the top 10 would have been good.

Speaker 3: 11:51

But I got on the podium and I was the first British guy across the line and after the race, some of the other girls were coming up to me and they were going oh, you're going to go to Rio. I was like, hang on, like hold your horses, I've just come third at a European Cup. Like let's not talk about the Olympics. They were like, no, you've quantified for the test event. I was like, oh cool. So it turned out that one of the criteria was you came top Brit and on the podium and you got a slot at the test event in Rio later in the year. So I was like whoa cool, like count me in, so off I went to Rio.

Speaker 1: 12:27

Do you think if you'd known that was the case and it was the impact of the Gateway event would you've performed as well as you did?

Speaker 3: 12:36

I like to think I cope with pressure all right. So maybe, but who knows, Maybe I would have overthought it. But yeah, who knows?

Speaker 1: 12:44

So how did the test event go?

Speaker 3: 12:46

Awfully, I was so far out of my depth. It was yeah, it was a huge eye opener. I think I was. Maybe I think I was 49 out of 55 people and yeah it was. I was so far off being competitive at that level, which was both a blessing and it was a bit of a kick up the arse. So a bit of an eye not an eye opener, because I knew that I wasn't going to be competitive, but it was great to know how far off I was and then I could go away and try and close that gap.

Speaker 2: 13:19

Sometimes in that position it makes you think actually I'm not good enough to be there, but do you think for you? It actually made you even more kind of want it even more and push yourself forward even more.

Speaker 3: 13:28

Yeah, I think it did. I think it helped that I was so, yeah, I hadn't been doing triathlon for that long, so I sort of had quite a big excuse to be like oh well, you know, I haven't been doing this for that long. So it was there, wasn't that? I didn't have any pressure on me, like zero expectations from anybody, so coming in that position was sort of expected, and yeah, so I just it was okay, like well, now I know where I'm at. It wasn't a disappointment or anything like that. So fantastic opportunity as well. Yeah, it was so cool yeah amazing opportunity.

Speaker 1: 14:02

Also, like you said, amazing learning opportunity, and one of the things I've loved about listening to you in other podcasts is that you've clearly got a growth mindset. So I love the whole Carole Dweck concept of growth mindset versus a fixed mindset, and you've definitely got a growth mindset. So what specifically, when that didn't go right? What specifically did you decide you needed to change to make sure that you got better from that point on?

Speaker 3: 14:26

Oh, it was all just down to the swim. Like in Olympic distance racing, it's all the swim, and I knew that I just hadn't spent the time in the water to well. I didn't deserve to be swimming in the frontpack because I hadn't done as much training as that lot. So, yeah, it was all about the swim from it in those days, and so I just came out with a plan that I was going to swim a hell of a lot.

Speaker 1: 14:48

Was it any more scientific than that, or was it?

Speaker 3: 14:50

that? No, I looked at the results. I thought well, you're a bit slow in the swim, so let's get better at swim. How am I going to do that? I'll swim a lot.

Speaker 1: 15:04

As I'm sure you're picking up, Indy's got an incredible growth mindset when it comes to everything to do with sport and life, and one of the things that helps me continue to have a growth mindset is by constantly reading new books, watching new documentaries, listening to new podcasts, and what I do is, every other week, I put together an email, which we call Tribe Talk, which shares with you the best podcasts, books, videos, documentaries, God videos. That's a bit old, isn't it? All the amazing resources I've discovered in the previous fortnight, and I share them with everyone else. So if you head to the show notes, you can subscribe to Tribe Talk. It's not your average newsletter. It's going to send you some amazing recommendations to how you can improve your growth mindset. So tell us a little bit about how you then have transitioned from short course on to middle distance and now moving on to long course.

Speaker 3: 16:07

Yeah, so I was doing Olympic distance for a few years and I'd had some good races, I'd had some good results. And then everybody knows how competitive it is in Great Britain, especially on the women's side in short course, triathlon and I'd had a year or two where I'd had some illnesses. I'd get really bad colds and chest infections and things like that. And it was always at the worst times when around races, I wouldn't be able to race. And the way the world series works is you only have a certain number of slots for each nation for each race and because it's so competitive, if you miss a race and you don't get the points, then it's difficult to get a start. And so in 20, I think it was 2080, I was struggling to get on start lines for any races and it was quite demotivating because your fate is in there, it's in somebody else's hand. You don't have any control over what races you're going to do, you can't plan your season and yeah, it's just. I just got quite frustrated with it. So at the end of the year I signed up to do Weymouth 70.3 just to see if I'd enjoy it, if that was going to be an option for me the following year to do 70.3 distance and I did Weymouth and I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 3: 17:27

And so the year of 2019, I think I started doing more 70.3s. I did. I still did some short course races. When I got the opportunity to do world series, then I would. I did a couple of wildcups, I think. And then I think at the end of 2019, I thought, no, I think I'm going to. I'm going to go to 70.3. I've got, I want to. I wanted to have more control and more autonomy over what I was doing and where I was going, and that's what middle distance gave me.

Speaker 1: 17:54

And tell us about your win in Samorin.

Speaker 3: 17:57

Oh yeah, that was cool. Yeah, that was unexpected, so I turn. It was a tricky day actually because I turned up to transition and my rear mech wasn't working on my bike because I didn't have any gears Kind of a flinchle, what's up?

Speaker 1: 18:09

You're just going to say how much of a panic I mean I would be in absolute bits. The air would be blue, there'd be humps flying everywhere in anger. How do you deal with that?

Speaker 3: 18:20

When you're in the moment, there's not enough time to be angry about it. So I was just trying to solve it and unfortunately I've got quite a good. I've got quite a good handle on all my bike mechanics, because I do all I do have all myself. So I went to the mechanics at the edge of transition, took my bike out of transition and went to the mechanics and I was like, look, all we need to do is get it into. It was in the hardest gear as well, so that was going to be a like non-starter. So I said all we need to do is get it into the middle of the block, and so we just used the limited screw to get it out three gears. And then I was like, right, that's my gear. And then didn't have time to warm up.

Speaker 3: 18:57

So I was running to the swim start, getting my white suit on Got and I just thought I'm just going to give it a go. I might get on my bike and might not. It might not be able to ride at all because it might be too hard. And then, once I got on my bike, I had a terrible swim, got on my bike and I could ride it. It was just a bit hard coming out of some of the corners. So I was trying to carry my speed as much as I could. And then, once I started riding, I was like, oh right, this is actually. It's actually all right. And then I was more relieved than anything to get off the bike. I was like, wow, well, my legs feel a little bit heavy, but everyone's legs are going to feel heavy, like it's a middle distance throughout them, and then I had a bit of a lead going on to the run. So I thought just, you know, don't do anything silly, and you might be able to hold this. I did.

Speaker 2: 19:42

I'm very impressed also by you doing all your own mechanics. So yeah, I think that's amazing. Have you always been interested in that kind of thing, or did you just learn it because you used to get frustrated by it? How did you come to doing your own mechanics?

Speaker 3: 19:55

Firstly, I hate stuff that doesn't work. If there's anything that doesn't work, I try and fix it. It could be again a thing I'm the person that my friends will call up to do any DIY slash home fixing of things, and so I guess having bikes is just a way for me to indulge that itch of trying to tinker with stuff all the time.

Speaker 2: 20:17

And also coming up with solutions. You were talking before about you'll find a solution or something, so that kind of mindset as well, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 20:24

Yeah, yeah, I love it. Having a TT bike and the whole aerodynamic stuff is great, because I love trying to come up with solutions for that and trying to make it better.

Speaker 1: 20:34

Have you gone about making your position more aero? You know, do you go to anyone in particular? What have you done?

Speaker 3: 20:40

I just sit on a turbo. I either film myself on my iPhone or look at myself in the mirror from side on, look at race photos and just try and make it better. My whole front end I built myself. I know what I think it should look like and I know that I don't want it to look messy. So I just I have like I have off the shelf armrests and TT bars and then I just configure it to look better. I consult with other people. I say what do you think?

Speaker 2: 21:12

about this. It's like a real engineer kind of way of thinking, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 21:16

It sounds like the start of something bigger. I think there's that could be so it was really interesting. And obviously you just had an amazing result in on Florida, which I think is your second Ironman, and you came second in on Florida, which is absolutely incredible. How was it going up to the long course? How are you finding that?

Speaker 3: 21:37

I was terrified. I was really scared, not of the distance and not of the physical aspect of it, because I thought I knew that I was capable of it. I was more scared of the amount of time that you have to concentrate for, like, you're not talking to anybody else at nine hours, are you? So that's the bit that I was most concerned about and the most nervous for because I didn't want that to be my downfall of not getting the most out myself.

Speaker 1: 22:08

So did you come up with any strategies as to how you could deal with that better?

Speaker 3: 22:12

I didn't. I just worried about it a lot. And then I got in the race and I realized that I was actually really engaged for the whole thing, because I guess I did come up with some strategies in that I would lap my garment every hour so I would just think about the hour that I was in. So I do, yeah, I just target that one hour and then scrap that, do the next hour, and then the second half of the bike was more engaging because I was riding in a group. So it was, yeah, it worked out all right in the end.

Speaker 1: 22:44

Brilliant, brilliant. And so do you see, what do you think your distribution will be between long course and middle distance, going forward.

Speaker 3: 22:51

It's difficult to know. I really enjoyed the Ironman, but I enjoy racing a lot and doing an Ironman. You can't race too much, so, doing middle distance, you can do more races in a year. But then there's the new Ironman series that's been announced and so, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what I'm going to do. To be honest, yeah, I'm doing Bahrain 70.3 in December.

Speaker 1: 23:16

And the garment lapping idea. I've heard a few people say that, but I specifically think that Ruth Astel might have been one of the people I've heard say that before. How important do you think it is to the tribe of people around you in terms of your training? How important is that to you?

Speaker 3: 23:33

It's been really important to me. I think I've really seen the value of it this year in particular when I'm in the UK. I do 90% of the training on my own, which I really enjoy, and I'm quite good at being a bit of a loner. But this year I purposefully put myself in situations where I'm training with other people and other people who are better than me or have more experience than me, and I think it's been a huge reason why I've had some better races this year, Because you're learning from other people. You watch how other people go about their days and then you just take things on and learn and without even realising, half the time it just goes in Like the lapping the garment thing Maybe Ruth said to me once that's what she does, and so I took that on.

Speaker 1: 24:25

Do you find that you also train harder with other people? I know, I definitely do.

Speaker 3: 24:30

Yeah, I think it makes it easier to get more out of yourself. For sure I don't know whether I train harder or whether it's just maybe you do train harder but you don't realise. Because it's more about the ease of getting things done, Because you know you're meeting somebody else for a run or you got to hit a certain time, otherwise you're going to get somebody overtaking you, that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 24:55

What are the top, maybe sort of three things that you think that you've learnt by being around people? You said people being better than you, but maybe sort of people being more experienced than you. What are the top three things that you have learnt from being around those people?

Speaker 3: 25:09

The first half of the year I spent a lot of time on training camps with Kat Kat Matthews and she's obviously had huge success. And she's really I don't know how to say it other than she's really like deliberate with things that she does. It's like having a purpose for everything. So every ride she's got a purpose and when she goes out the door she knows what that purpose is, rather than just going out and spinning around for a minute. She's doing this ride at this intensity because of this and it's like deliberate.

Speaker 3: 25:42

So I've learned that from Kat, but also, I think, training with Kat and Ruth is rather than well. I've learned a lot from them, but I've also learned to have more confidence in myself that I'm capable of keeping up with them almost, and so when I get into a race, there's no reason why I can't keep up with them in a race, because I can stick with them in training. So I guess it's just gaining confidence from being around people and realising that I'm not actually that far off. I just need to keep doing what I'm doing.

Speaker 1: 26:12

And one of the times that you've hung out with Kat a bit was the sub eight, of course, and Ruth as well. So tell me, what was it like to be a part of that sub eight experience, if that's the way you describe it, and what did you learn from the sub eight?

Speaker 3: 26:27

What did I learn from it? I guess the importance of having other people around you, and I think even before going into sub eight we've all been quite supportive of each other, but then, even more so around sub eight, it was just cool to build those bonds with other people in the team, with Kat and Ruth. I didn't really know them that well before, before that week, and then you've come away and got really good friends from it. It's really cool. And then watching Kat do that was insane. So she's on the run. Yeah, it was incredible, wasn't it?

Speaker 1: 26:59

It was absolutely incredible, yeah what an experience to be a part of that. Absolutely brilliant. When I was listening to one of the podcasts that you have featured on back in about June I think, I heard you asked about Kona and you're like, well, I don't really get the whole Kona thing. It kind of I didn't grab around triathlon, it didn't really, doesn't really do it. But I know you were having Kona for a few weeks with Ruth training. I know you're racing in Kona, but tell us a bit about what it was like to be in Kona as a bystander and are you still sort of unfazed by the concept of racing in Kona?

Speaker 3: 27:35

No, I've absolutely changed my opinion, like, yeah, I absolutely get it, it's absolutely incredible, wow, yeah, so I was out there for five weeks with Ruth on a training camp before the race, and so I got to experience the island as, I guess, a normal place before all the traffic is descended on it, and that was amazing because it's just got a whole different vibe and people talk about island vibes and Hawaii has it it's just it's a slower pace of life. Yeah, I just I loved it there, really loved it there. And then, as people started arriving, you'd see more people riding up and down in Queen K and then race week, we would go down into Kona and swimming from the pier and like more and more people are coming in and you think, oh my gosh, there are a lot of people here Like this is intense. And then I can't even imagine when the men are there as well, because we just had the women, but there was still a lot of people. Yeah, then race week comes and they start setting up transition and then the finish line is there and I was like, well, I'm not sure, I'm not sure about this, it might be a bit much.

Speaker 3: 28:45

And then race day was one of the best days ever, like my. The best day of my life, normal life this year. Best day of this year. It was so great. We were supporting Ruth. First year was very stressful because I wanted to do a good job supporting Ruth. I had a whiteboard, I had to give her a split, everything like that. I wanted her to have a good day and we drove out to the I think it was 45K on the bike, so you saw her there and then got back into town and then the crowds on the run. Everybody is just there for a good time. Everybody wants everybody to do well. Oh, it was really cool, yeah, so yeah, my opinion from Kona has changed.

Speaker 1: 29:24

So you've qualified for Nice already, haven't you? From Florida? I see you're going to race. That are you, and the plan will then try and be in Kona the following year, will it?

Speaker 3: 29:33

Oh yeah, definitely. I think it was good going out there this year and not racing.

Speaker 1: 29:39

So now that I've done a recce and I know what to expect when I go back and I'm looking forward to going back- and how did it feel to be on the other side of the road, actually sort of getting to witness the event as opposed to just partaking in it?

Speaker 3: 29:54

Well, I love supporting racers. If I can't race, then I'll be there supporting. Yeah, I love it. I lost my voice. Yeah, it was great.

Speaker 1: 30:03

Brilliant. Personally, I've had a few issues with flights flying with a bike. Now my first big issue was actually in Kona this time or just gone. Last year my bike spent an extra week enjoying Kona so much it spent an extra week there and the airline kept saying we don't know where you buy a kiss. And I said, well, I know I've got an air tag in there. I can see it's still on the Kona runway. So that was my first issue. And then my second issue recently was coming back from Ironman Vittoria Gastiz. The airline cracked my bike frame Six month old. Canyon Speedmax cracked frame Nightmast. But I know you've had issues with flying as well, so tell us a little bit about your flying with the issues you've had and what you've learned as a result of your travels.

Speaker 3: 30:48

I've had similar to you. I've had bikes not turning up, I've had bikes going other way around the world to me and I've also had a pretty significantly cracked frame where I had the chainstays just completely broken through, like my bike was in two parts when I took it out of the bike box. How does that happen?

Speaker 1: 31:07

I mean, mine was a fairly small crack, but I mean we've got to ask how does that happen? I mean that's absolutely incredible, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 31:14

I don't know, but it was so extreme that the thru axle I've still got the thru axle because the thru axle was sheared in half. So the thru axle was through the bike box, it was a bike bag, it was a bike bag and half of the thru axle was still in the bike frame and the other half is just sheared off.

Speaker 1: 31:36

You have to wonder what they do. You'd have to work pretty hard to do that much damage, wouldn't you?

Speaker 3: 31:41

Yeah, absolutely Like a crazy amount of damage, Like that's something heavy. I think something must have driven over it. Other than that, I can't think what. Every time I dropped my bike off now I looked through the machine to see what it could have been.

Speaker 1: 31:56

So was that on the way to a race, on the way home from a race?

Speaker 3: 32:00

No, that was on the way to a training camp in February, so it wasn't that big a deal because I didn't miss any races for it. But I did have to try and find a whole new bike in 2021 when there weren't any new bikes anywhere.

Speaker 1: 32:15

And what do you do differently now? When you're flying with a bike, do you do anything differently other than peering through the gap to see if you can see what it was?

Speaker 3: 32:23

I've got it in a big bike box now and I do wrap it in bubble wrap, but I just think that's not going to do anything Like. That's just a courteous thing for the bike. But yeah, I've got. I should have shares in air tags, because I've got air tags in everything Whenever I travel, yeah, and you just have to just try and forget about it, try and compartmentalize it. You let it go into that little off, it goes on the conveyor belt thing and I just think, well, I'll see you when I see your bike and if you're all right, you're all right. If you're not all right, then we'll deal with it somehow.

Speaker 1: 33:01

Yeah, tag is a great advice. I can't remember I think it was one of the riot crew that gave me that advice. Now we have a traditionalist podcast where the previous guests asked the next guest a question without knowing who that guest will be. So I think, Claire, you've got the question from Sebastian Bellin, who was also in Kona last year. He got blown up in the Brussels airport bombing and he set himself the goal of doing an Ironman and he did it in Kona last October. Sebastian has a question for you which I think Claire has lined up.

Speaker 2: 33:31

Okay, what is the most profound lesson you've learned from sports that has had the deepest impact on you?

Speaker 3: 33:38

Big question, well, that was quite deep, isn't it? I'm not sure. I'm not sure it's very profound, but maybe that you just have to keep moving forwards. Just keep going and take the next step, and if you can't figure something out, just take the next step and you'll get there in the end.

Speaker 1: 33:59

I think that's great advice. I think it's absolutely great advice. I think, ultimately, that's how most people achieve their goals. Is just taking one more step forward, isn't it so brilliant? And one of the other things that we always do is ask for books. If you don't read books, it can be something else, but what books have you found yourself recommending to others or found, you know, found really helpful for you?

Speaker 3: 34:21

Okay, I'm not a huge reader. I listen to a book by a psychologist or a psychiatrist called Phil Stutz. There's actually a film on Netflix about him, but he has a book called the Tools. It's basically a way of getting through life, basically by using different techniques that he's come up with. Yeah, I guess I read that at the start of this year and applied it and that's helped me quite a bit.

Speaker 1: 34:48

Brilliant. That's not a book I've heard of, and the fact there's a Netflix documentary to follow up as well is even better. So brilliant, I'll check that out. So can you give me one takeaway that you've got from books? So documentary?

Speaker 3: 35:00

The biggest takeaway that I had from it is he has this theory it's called the String of Pearls theory where each action in your life is no more important than another action. So I've applied it to sport that one training session is no more important than another training session, no matter what it might be. You could do a 30-minute run and then the next day you've got a video two max swim, but that 30-minute run isn't less significant than the video two max swim, because it's the whole thing put together that is important.

Speaker 1: 35:30

I like that Fantastic. And so, to wrap things up, what are you most looking forward? What are you most excited about?

Speaker 3: 35:37

Most excited about racing next year and the position that professional long-course triathlon is in at the moment, because it seems like it's in a positive place and with the new Ironman series, the potential PTO series, it's kind of cool to be involved in it at this stage. So I'm excited to see how that's going to pan out next year.

Speaker 1: 36:00

And I'm excited to see how you get on in it, because I think you are just. You just seem to be going from strength to strength and I think 2024 could be an amazing year for Indie Lee, so I'm really excited to see that. So thank you so much for joining on this podcast. Load of really good advice there, but also some really lovely stories, and I think it's just lovely to hear how you kind of started in the sport but how that kind of gross mindset and that like that engineer mindset, like you said, claire, I think is really going to help you achieve the goals that you set. So, yeah, thank you so much.

Speaker 3: 36:30

Thank you, padme, enjoy the.

Speaker 2: 36:38

Indie's knowledge of all her mechanics on the bike actually got her through the race. So, as promised right at the very beginning of this podcast, I'm going to give you access to one of our webinars from our and with our pro athlete here at fourth discipline, about sleep. So within this webinar, we talked all about not only why sleep is so important for athletes, but also how you can apply that in everyday life and within business. So with our athletes and our clients, we often talk about not just nutrition but how this affects our sleep, how this affects our movement and our exercise and vice versa, how nutrition can actually affect our sleep and actually affects how and when and why we may or may not want to exercise. So in the show notes below, click on the link and you will get access to our webinar or go to fourthdisciplinecom.

Speaker 1: 37:33

What did you make of the interview with Indie?

Speaker 2: 37:36

It was great it was. It was really good actually to to speak with her properly after her helping me with my bike at the airport. So I didn't actually realize who she was until actually on the way home when everyone's talking to her. So it's really nice to. It was really nice to have a good discussion and I just love the fact that she's like she's really practical, isn't she when she's talking about like totally solution focused and sorting your own bike out. I was thinking about my mechanical skills and they are nowhere near as good as hers, that's for sure.

Speaker 1: 38:04

Well, I actually made me think that I'm going to sign up for a mechanical course, because I'm rubbish with that as well and actually I mean I'm definitely not the person that wants to do DIY. But it does fill me with dread when I think I'm going to have to try and fix something, particularly on the side of a road, and you think actually it would be sense to know more about this. These two wheels I'm sat on. So yeah, I agree, I thought that was really good. I really like the fact that she was kind of she was clearly quite a shy child and sort of running was her way of getting away and kind of keeping her, keeping her on her own, and yet actually she's now starting to see the benefit of really training with others as well. I thought that kind of starkness between I want to be on my own, I want to stay away from everyone, to actually I realize I'm performing better with others was quite interesting.

Speaker 2: 38:50

I think triathlon is, or can be, such a sport that is individual and you do on your own and actually I guess kind of at that level as well, associating yourself and being around that. You know we often talk to people around about the people that are there to support you and the things you get from different people, and she's obviously getting a lot from being around people who have been in the sport for a long time and can give her so much. So it just sounds like she's really learning the whole time. And I know you touched on kind of that grace mindset with which you talk about frequently. So, yeah, what were your thoughts on her kind of grace mindset? Because I know you talked a little bit about that.

Speaker 1: 39:26

Well, I think she downplayed it a bit. I think she she actually I expected a more scientific. You know, we I got this and went off and did all of these things. Well, I mean, I actually I'm just in awe of the success she's having in the sport. You know, having a pretty laid but what felt like a pretty laid back approach to it all. It almost feels like she's just kind of going with the flow and I'm sure she's, you know, very strict at following a training plan and everything else, and she was just really. I thought that was really interesting how she seems very laid back. And yeah, I mean I absolutely think she's one to watch next year the way that she's ascending through the ranks very quickly.

Speaker 2: 40:09

And I wonder whether you know you asked this question. But I wonder whether putting less pressure on oneself to be able to perform, maybe if you I mean she comes across quite relaxed, maybe feel more relaxed about things happen rather than being, so you know, uptight or worried about things, and probably that she's always got some solution in her pocket. Maybe that's what she's, so relaxed.

Speaker 1: 40:29

Yeah, yeah, well, exactly, I mean, I mean, how reassuring would it be to know that if there's a problem on the bike, which is ultimately the one big thing that's out of your hands, isn't it really in a race for being to know that actually I've probably, you know, if it's fixable, I can probably fix it, and even if it's kind of not, I probably can you know, I can probably come up with some solution that's going to get me to the end of the race. I mean, I honestly would have been in you would not want to have been around me if I'd got to transition on race morning and my rear mech at bust I would know I would not be a happy bunny at all. But yeah, they're really interesting and loads, loads to take away and load and actually, yeah, as you say, I think there's a lot to a lot to the fact that she comes into it a little bit more calm. And they talk about gold golfers. There's sort of on a scale of one to 10, you should be at about six in terms of emotional engagement, because if you get above a six, you're too. You know, you're getting too stressed about things you're going. She's why I'm hopeless golfing, because I never get below six, but but then, equally, you've got to be involved and engaged enough to actually perform your best. So, yeah, so I wonder what, what the number is on triathlon, and maybe six is not a bad place to be. But, yes, interesting lady and yeah, like I said, I think one to watch. So good luck with your training over the course of the next week or two.

Speaker 1: 41:48

Thank you very much and, for our listeners, keep on training If you want us to keep getting amazing guests onto the business of endurance podcast. We don't ask for you to pay for us. We don't ask for patronage. All we ask for is that you subscribe to the podcast, ideally on Apple. Give us a five star rating because it shows us you care, and if you've got time, leave us a comment. One word is fine, something like inspiring or amazing or something like that, but we really do appreciate it and it will help us to continue to deliver amazing guests on what we hope you find to be an amazing podcast. Thanks very much.