Business of Endurance

From Ocean to Ironman: Finding Purpose Beyond Victory with Matt Trautman

• Charlie Reading • Season 9 • Episode 9

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In this episode of The Business of Endurance, we’re joined by the incredible Matt Trautman - an athlete whose journey embodies the essence of resilience, reinvention, and mental toughness. 

From competing as a white-water kayaker to becoming a world-class triathlete, Matt’s story is one of overcoming obstacles, including a severe spinal injury, and finding the strength to not only recover but to thrive. 

Matt opens up about his path to recovery after a life-changing crash, his transition from professional athlete to coach, and how his background in kayaking and yacht racing shaped his approach to endurance sport. 

He shares invaluable lessons on building resilience, dealing with setbacks, and finding purpose beyond the racecourse. 

If you’re looking for insights on long-term performance, mental fortitude, and how to tackle life’s hardest moments with grit and grace, this conversation is for you. 


Highlights:

  • Resilience Through Setbacks: Overcoming physical and mental challenges, including a life-changing spinal injury.
  • From Whitewater Kayaking to Triathlon: How kayaking set the foundation for Matt’s endurance career.
  • Adapting to Injury: How Matt embraced a slow recovery to return to triathlon stronger.
  • Load Management in Training: Respecting recovery to avoid setbacks and enhance performance.
  • Influence of Mentors: How coaches like Brett Sutton shaped Matt’s career and coaching style.
  • Dealing with Concussions: The psychological and physical challenges of recovering from a concussion.
  • Team and Community Support: The value of camaraderie and encouragement during tough times.
  • Retirement Decision: How family and shifting motivation led Matt to step away from professional triathlon.
  • Building a Strong Endurance Base: The benefits of developing a physical foundation through varied sports.
  • Mental Resilience and Goal Setting: Using small, achievable goals to regain fitness post-injury.


Links:

Connect with Matt through Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattytrautman/

Please Subscribe to Business of Endurance on Apple Podcasts, leave a comment, and give us a 5-Star review. 

This episode was sponsored by The Trusted Team and 4th Discipline

Matt Trautman:

Professional athletes do you have lots of setbacks along the way. You have your ups and downs and just realizing that there's no down without up and no up without down and you just got to ride that wave and see your way through it to get to the other side of that.

Charlie Reading:

In this episode of the Business of Endurance, we're joined by the incredible matty trauman, an athlete whose journey embodies the essence of resilience, reinvention and mental toughness from competing as a whitewater rafter to becoming a world-class triathlete, matty's story is one of overcoming obstacles, including a severe spinal injury, and finding the strength to not only recover but to thrive. Matt opens up about his path to recovery after a life-changing crash, his transition from professional athlete to coach, and how his background in kayaking and yacht racing shaped his approach to endurance sport. He shares invaluable lessons on building resilience, dealing with setbacks and finding purpose beyond the race course. If you're looking for insights on long-term performance, mental fortitude and how to tackle life's hardest moments with grit and grace, this conversation is definitely for you. So listen up and dive in to this brilliant episode about the journey of Matty Trauman, this brilliant episode about the journey of Mattie Troutman.

Charlie Reading:

Do you know what? When we look at the back end of this podcast, then we see something really interesting. We see that 57% of the people that regularly listen to it haven't hit the subscribe button. So could I ask you a quick favor before we dive into today's episode? If you're enjoying, claire and I bringing you amazing guests, not asking you for patronage fees and not jamming the podcast full of adverts then the best way you can help us continue to do that and make it even better is to hit that subscribe button. And here's my promise to you when you subscribe, we'll make it our mission, along with the team that supports us, to continue to improve this podcast every week. So thank you so much for your support and for being a part of the Business of Endurance community.

Charlie Reading:

Let's dive in. So, matt, welcome to the Business of Endurance podcast, really looking forward to chatting to you and sort of diving into all things Ironman, all things South Africa and lots of other stuff. But I want to start with a topic we haven't talked about before, which is you started out as a competitive whitewater kayaker before you transitioned into triathlon. So can you take us back to those days? What does that look like? I didn't even know that was a thing, and so I mean I know what whitewater rafting is, but I didn't know that it was a competitive thing. So tell us a bit about that and also kind of maybe sort of segue into what did that teach you that later proved useful when you came to triathlon?

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, hilie, um, thanks for having me on. Yeah, I mean the kayaking. Suppose it's that we have to go back to where I grew up, which was in peter maritzberg, um, in south africa, and I mean it's a very sports mad town. I guess. There's a lot of big endurance events that, uh, that happen. There's the comrades marathon, um, which is the biggest the ultra marathon in the world, participant wise, and then you've got mid-mile mile, which is, I think, also, if not the biggest, one of the biggest mass swim events. It's a mile and a dam there and um, yeah, just just that, I mean growing up there, obviously I had a big influence on my career and who I, you know, turned out to be.

Matt Trautman:

And, yeah, one of the sports that is popular there is canoeing and there's a race there, the Doozy Canoe Marathon, which is a three-day event starting in Peter Maritzburg and going down to Durban, and my parents had both done it, um, and were into it, as I was, as I was growing up and I mean, amongst other sports, uh, comrades as well, and, and, yeah, I mean it's it's a tough sport to do, um, when you're younger.

Matt Trautman:

I mean, I only got into it a bit later in life, but yeah, I was playing I guess all the traditional sports in primary school growing up, but paddling was always on the radar and as soon as I was I was able to then then got into that. Yeah, in high school I went to, I went to a boarding school there just outside of Peter Maritzburg and you had to do one term of team sports, like it was cricket, and then you could start. You could start paddling in the in the fourth term and yeah, that was I couldn't wait and so I got into it then and, yeah, just really enjoyed it. I think getting out it was definitely a way to get out of the boarding school and get off the grounds on the weekends was a big attraction.

Matt Trautman:

But for various reasons I guess yeah, I was growing to it and it's yeah definitely set me up in terms of being an endurance sport athlete later in life do you think just sort of kind of diving deeper on that?

Charlie Reading:

do you think it? You know what? What specifically do you think about that sort of sort of youth stage? Do you think then helped you later on, when it came to ironman in particular?

Matt Trautman:

like it is an endurance sport. I mean I did. I know the question started off with whitewater kayaking, which I did do. The doozy is it's down a river, it's, I guess, what are flack water boats. Otherwise, Like in the Olympics you've got the kayaking event is a sprint from, I think, 200 meters to a kilometer on flack water and it's very similar boats, except you go down rivers with them which yeah, I mean it's quite unique, I guess, to South Africa.

Matt Trautman:

There are some other events around the world, but it's, you know, it's very popular in Pietermaritzburg and Durban. Yeah, I guess I mean the training. You've got to train for it like you would a triathlon. I teaches you the discipline of doing that, and I mean from a physical point of view. It definitely sets you up well for being active and fit and you're building this big aerobic engine in your youth and that no doubt helped with the triathlon.

Charlie Reading:

It's interesting, actually, because we've often talked to people that whether they end up in triathlon or doing something else, that they start with swimming in their youth. Swimming in your youth seems to be a great way of and it's described in the same way. It's a way of building the engine, it's understanding, sort of following a training program, it's having a tribe, building a tribe around you, and it sounds to me that that's actually delivered something very similar to what a lot of people that start in a swimming background probably get. Were you a swimmer as well as a youngster?

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Matt Trautman:

I mean there's like I think doing anything at that age and building a big, a good foundation, it can help. It can help, I mean, swimming would have been. It would have been more useful for triathlon in terms of the technical aspect of it and getting those neuromuscular patterns dialed in a bit better. In youth I did swim, yeah, in junior school, and, like I mentioned, there was a mid-month mile which I did a few times and yeah, it was. It was more just a school sport that you'd swim, I don't know, like once or twice a week, I guess, and then be the guilers, it was never just a school sport that you'd swim, I don't know, like once or twice a week, I guess, and then be, the garters.

Matt Trautman:

It was never something that I took too seriously, which, yeah, like I said, would have been useful, but um, yeah, the paddling.

Charlie Reading:

It sounds like it did something different.

Matt Trautman:

It did something similar the paddling for sure, and I mean you got a. I mean I played a lot of different sports and besides the paddling, there was your cross country and that race, the doozy you got to. There's a lot of portage in with your boats. You got to be very run fit and you're running with your boat quite long distances. So, yeah, there was a good crossover to triathlon for sure.

Charlie Reading:

And so that kind of raises another question, which is so we talk a bit about this kind of opportunity for people to niche down early, and particularly in triathlon. You know, with ironman, historically people didn't sort of start doing ironmans until they were certainly in their 20s, and sometimes not even until they were in their 30s, whereas we're now seeing younger athletes switching to long course much sooner. So they're niching down much earlier. But you had range from doing all sorts of different things. You also spent some time on super yachts, which I'm going to kind of touch on in a minute. But just before we do, what do you think the difference? You know, what do you think that range of doing different sports provided to you later on?

Matt Trautman:

of doing different sports provided to you later on. Yeah, I mean, I'm a big believer in that, that you don't need to specialise too soon in your youth. I mean the technical aspects of swimming, like definitely picking that up sooner rather than later. You see the importance of that, especially in the short course Olympic distance stuff. But even moving now into the short course olympic distance stuff and but even moving now and see the longer course stuff, you gotta, you gotta have a good swim foundation, um, but yeah, outside of that, I think you want to, you just like in terms of youth, you just want to instill that that passion of moving your body and and being active and having fun, um, and yeah, it's whatever you find enjoyable. It just sort of becomes a habit, I guess, and gets ingrained that this is a good way to live and a good way to spend your time.

Charlie Reading:

Brilliant, brilliant, and just tell me a little bit about what you were doing with the high-performance yachts. What did that look like, and what lessons from the sea helped you shape your approach to endurance?

Matt Trautman:

land rate racing on land yeah, so I got into sailing straight after school when I matriculated at 17. Yeah, I'd spent five years, like I said, in boarding school and I couldn't wait to just get out and explore the world a bit, I guess. So, yeah, I mean I started off just working on a diving and fishing boat in Mozambique and did that for a few months and then met a guy there who had an old round the world racing yacht in the in the uk and he was looking for for crew.

Matt Trautman:

So it went over to the uk and did some racing there on this. It was like an old 80 foot boat. We had like 20 we'd sail with about 20 people on board, um, and we sailed across the atlantic and yeah, it just sort of was always my plan to just take, I guess, a gap year and then go back and study something. But that gap year turned into the next 10 years. I mean up until recently I guess I was on more like a 20 year gap year before I had to find a desk job. Yeah, I mean it didn't start off as a. I mean I wasn't racing straight away. But yeah, what did it teach me? I mean sailing is a lot of. It is about the preparation of of your equipment. I mean having having your boats and good working order is is very important, and I mean as a sport.

Matt Trautman:

There there are a lot of variables, a lot of things that are out of your control I mean the weather.

Matt Trautman:

You can predict it to an extent, but but you do, there is an element of luck involved, I guess. And I mean you're working together with other members, with other crew members, to get the best, the best, out of the boat. And, yeah, it's, there's lots of factors that go into it and I eventually, yeah, from the crew stuff, I then tried some single-handed sailing and managed to get some funding together to do this race across the atlantic called the mini transit, which, yeah, that was an experience and sailing single-handed across the atlantic and definitely some some good lessons there and in perseverance and staying focused. That that I took over to triathlon. But I mean, yeah, triathlon was at the time obviously wasn't on the radar and I started as a professional triathlete. Well, I started triathlon at 27 and so, yeah, late starter, um, but like sailing's a from a physical point of view, it's like it's not like you're sitting behind a desk, yeah, you're always on the move and there was some, some carryover there as well and I love the fact that you've talked about a couple of things.

Claire Fudge:

I think triathletes definitely forget one prepping your equipment. So the fact you were able to learn that early on I think is is amazing. On the, on the yachts and also this, this idea of like these variables and things you know, being out of control, and I think you know a long race, race day, anything can happen, can't it? So what? What took you from the, the worlds of of yachts, to then coming into triathlon because you mentioned just there that you got into it a little bit later in life what really brought you into the world of triathlon? And then Ironman, or did you start with Ironman, because I know some athletes do?

Matt Trautman:

yeah, I mean I started, yeah, straight into the longer course stuff it's. I mean, at the time we were, we were based, I was on a boat, working on a boat in Cowes on the Isle of Wight and it was actually in 2012 and the Olympics were on. The Brownlees obviously won that year in London and there's a lot of focus on triathlon and yeah, I literally saw that, thought it would be a fun thing to try. I mean, I was still staying active, I was paddling and doing some running and I'd done a, a trail marathon, yeah, in that year, in 2012, and yeah, it just started as a fun challenge and yeah, there are lots of other options um, in the uk, a lot of races to choose from.

Matt Trautman:

So did a half distance race later in that year and, yeah, I found that I was um, that I really enjoyed it first of all, and um was competitive and it's kind of snowballed from there quite quickly and that came back to South Africa in the in the off season and race 70.3 here and then did Ironman South Africa. It was in 2013 and qualified for Kona there and then, yeah, it just it did just the momentum, kept going and went to Kona and it did well there and then thought, okay, let's try and give this a go as a as a profession.

Claire Fudge:

So you quite quickly got from kind of this idea of being being in the UK over the Olympic year and thought, actually, triathlon looks a good go. And then how long did it take you then from from there until going professional? Was it literally just a couple of years?

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, I raced. I raced one year in the age group category in 2014, and raced as a, as a professional, and that was my first professional victory. So, yeah, that was a like a big turning point in my career and sort of solidified that I could make a living out of it and that I could be competitive, could go very quickly. I mean the sport I wouldn't say it was as competitive as it is at the moment. I think if I had done the same, if I tried to take the same trajectory now, yeah, you probably wouldn't be winning races straight off the bat.

Claire Fudge:

What do you mean by that? Do you mean the professional world of triathlon has got a lot more competitive? Like, for what reason, more numbers of people coming in, or numbers of races, or lack of numbers of races? What's kind of driven that, do you think?

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, I mean, I think there's just there's been more publicity for the sport with starters. I think there's just there's been more publicity for the sport with starters. There've been more athletes going, more younger athletes getting straight into the long course stuff. There's more money, I think, with the PTO and now with the Ironman and Pro Series, and there's just more incentive for people to do well and to get into the sport straight away instead of going through the, through the short course circuit first. And yeah, there's.

Charlie Reading:

I'm sure there are more, more professionals overall racing, for whatever reason?

Matt Trautman:

yeah, probably there. I mean, I don't know if their job is financial or what it is, but it's definitely a bigger professional sport these days.

Claire Fudge:

We certainly saw like a massive sort of uplift in terms of age groupers and then age groupers going, you know, going professional over the years. But it's interesting you talk about it being more competitive now, you know, since kind of post COVID, I wonder if people have sort of moved into different sports, but it seems to have had kind of a second, you know, kind of a second wind again. You had a crash in 2017, which was horrific, and you came out of it extremely strong. So tell us a little bit about what happened in 2017 after your trauma and spinal injury. So tell us a little bit about the accident, but also about what it took for you to be able to get through that, recover and actually come back even even stronger.

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, um, in 2017, I was riding on a Saturday morning, it was yeah last long ride before 70.3, south Africa, in East London, and yeah, going out towards uh, franschhoek here in the Cape and yeah, I got hit, uh hit from behind by a car at high speed. I was riding in the in the yellow like emergency lane and this car was in there for whatever reason and uh and hooked me out and yeah, the result of that was, yeah, crushed, yeah, crushed, three crushed vertebrae and that they then needed to operate on. Yeah, straight away it was. I mean, it was quite close to the spinal cord and I was very lucky not to have any spinal cord damage. And yeah, some other. I mean, that was the, that was the main, yeah, the main. The main injury was, yeah, a big one. That, yeah, so they had to do a spinal fusion between those three vertebrae and yeah, it was a. It was a long recovery.

Charlie Reading:

What was the advice at the time? Were your sort of specialists telling you, yeah, you'll be back racing again in no time, or was there very much contradictory advice to them?

Matt Trautman:

No, I mean, there was, it was the, there was, it was the only, it was the only feasible option that the spinal fusion itself, that there weren't many other alternatives. The ligaments between the vertebrae had had torn in this during the accident. So, yeah, I mean, I got hit, landed on the bonnet and the windscreen and then supposedly, as I was like flying through the air, like that twisting motion and for the ligaments as well, and so, yeah, to stabilize the area I had to put in the put in the rods. Um, the surgeon no, he was, he was pretty straight up that um, I probably wouldn't race professionally again. He had done like spinal fusions on a few athletes, but mostly rugby players. I was in had the operation in Stellenbosch. It's a big professional rugby community there and it's, yeah, I mean, rugby is obviously a different sport. If you try it alone, you're not going to try and scrum anyone, unless it's a mass start, I guess.

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, I was going to water, not on purpose, but no, he wasn't too positive that I'd be able to to race professionally again and I guess that was some small motivation to try and prove him wrong and not the biggest one.

Claire Fudge:

What were your motivations? Because to be told, obviously to, to have been, you know, a competitive professional triathlete. And then have, because to be told, obviously to to have been, you know, a competitive professional triathlete, and then have this accident. Be told that I guess that was maybe a step up, you know, actually be told that there is hope that you could have this, this, this operation. But what was going through your mind because you mentioned there about you know actually, well, I'm going to prove everybody wrong, I'm going to get back to it. Were you kind of going backwards and forwards, from I'm going to prove everyone wrong to, I'm going to get back to it. Were you kind of going backwards and forwards, from I'm going to prove everyone wrong to, kind of what's, you know what's going to happen.

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, for sure, I think. I mean, I think initially I was like, okay, just you have to do what you have to do. It was like I don't think I obviously didn't know at the time what the long-term prognosis was was going to be. Yeah, it was like initially, you just gotta, I mean, like you say, you know, a little bit concussed, and I think you're thinking that straight um, you just gotta order the survival mode um in the initial phases and then no, I mean I like it wasn't my initial thought to to try and um race professionally again. It was like I definitely explored my options.

Matt Trautman:

I was, I mean, I remember like looking for jobs back in the sailing industry and but I mean the like I had to stay put for for the recovery, for the initial I mean at least a few months, I guess, as it as the fusion settled and the bone started to um to grow back. And then, yeah, I mean I think one of my, one of my traits is that once I do set a goal and very single-minded and focused on trying to see that through, and my first goal, I think, was just to be able to run again, I was like if I can just run again and then I'll be happy, and it would have been. You know, I can live like a normal life and as far as I'd always lived my life, I guess, and yeah, once you start seeing like the small improvements, it is motivation on its own and yeah, it is always like it's, even when you're, you know, not injured. Seeing the progress and trying to improve is is what drives you and, yeah, there was definitely that to just to try and get a little bit better each day and see, you know where I ended up, and it took about six months.

Matt Trautman:

Then, before I ran again, I just built up slowly. Um, there was yeah, there's no rush in that process, as the as the body tries to heal. And then, yeah, I kept seeing progress and then, like I think it was probably only after about seven, eight months that I thought, okay, I could, um, I might be able to race again.

Charlie Reading:

Did your training change? You know did. Did being hit by a car on the on the bike have a psychological impact? That meant you trained more inside, or you know how did? How did that all play out?

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, well, I mean my wifele wasn't shading me out on the road at all, that's for sure. For those first few months it was all yeah on the indoor trainer and no, I mean just in terms of the. From the physical standpoint it was much better without having any jarring on the back. And yeah, I mean with the running. I started off on the l2g, the anti-gravity treadmill, and then on the treadmill and I mean the running was the was on the LTG, the anti-gravity treadmill, and then on the treadmill and I mean the running was the was the hardest discipline to get back because you put in so much load through your back when you're running and without the discs in between the vertebrae anymore, there's a lot more load going into your lower back and and about that.

Matt Trautman:

So, yeah, getting the muscle strong enough took some time but yeah, in terms of getting back on the road, it was. It took a while and then Nicole ended up following me in the car for for the first, it was probably first few months of any riding that I did on the road. Yeah, it's like I don't think I was ever like. I don't think it ever made me more nervous, I mean definitely more aware of the of the risks. And yeah, first thing I did was put a red light on the back of my back. That might have made a difference in hindsight one that's more recent as well.

Claire Fudge:

But how do you think that that first trauma kind of changed I guess your, if it did, your mindset or your approach to training, and what I mean by that is you know, were you you were talking there a lot about. Actually your body takes time to recover and we see so many athletes, whether they're triathletes or in a different field, actually doing loads of training and not taking enough time to recover. So did it change your approach? I know that some of it you had to, but did it change your approach then and now in terms of training, recovery, load, mindset? It's a big question, I know yeah, I mean definitely initially.

Matt Trautman:

I mean that like I had to adapt the training to just be able to cope physically. And then, yeah, I mean I did try and and then get back into into normal I guess normal training and training like the way, the way I used to. Yeah, so I got pet by the car. It was in January and then I did, I did 70.3 Bahrain and like November, december that year and and that all went fine, like relatively pain-free, and then I thought, okay, let's ramp it up some more and in training for 70.3 in South Africa again, which, yeah, it then ended up becoming like a big thing in my mind to, okay, this is a year post accident and this will be like my proper comeback race. And, yeah, I ended up ended up overdoing it in the lead up to that and had like issues with the sciatic pain.

Matt Trautman:

There was some of the discs below the fusion started bulging and pushing up against nerves and like, thankfully managed to get through that race and still, you know, make my comeback. But then, of course, a few months out again after that, and I think it was really only after that that I truly appreciated that.

Matt Trautman:

Okay, you're gonna have to try a little bit of a different approach and and respect. You know what's gone on and yeah, it's mainly like load management and not getting into that situation again where you, where you're doing damage so you get to this stage, there must have been a point where you thought, do I quit?

Charlie Reading:

so what, what? What was it that continued to push you forward and then describe what you went back to win ironman Wales again. Didn't you Describe what it was like getting back there and winning again?

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, I mean in terms of quitting, for sure, I mean I must have retired a hundred times in my head over the course of being a professional triathlete. I mean not just at that stage stage, but I guess at all stages when you do question your life choices. But yeah, as I said, I mean that's like once I like set a goal and for whatever reason it is trying to see that through. That I did manage to win 70.3 south africa, which I guess was the biggest reward at the time and from all work that I'd put in. But then had had those issues afterwards and then I went back over to Europe and trained with the Brett Sutton and a squad and, yeah, I struggled, struggled for a while. It was so up and down. Just thinking back, yeah, I had had some really bad races and then managed to string together a few good weeks of training and get to Wales and in decent shape and win that again, which, yeah, I mean it obviously feels good winning, good for your ego.

Charlie Reading:

It's a tough race, but it is an amazingly well supported race, isn't it it? I mean, it's beautiful, but the support is incredible.

Matt Trautman:

I mean, it's honestly one of the highlights of my professional career. Racing, yeah, I love their course, love the town and all the support you get along the way. It holds a special place in my heart and I wouldn't change it Brilliant.

Charlie Reading:

So let's fast forward then, to 2024. Now, ironman South Africa 2024 holds a very special place in my heart because where I got my Kona slot. What I remember from that day is probably what everyone says every year, and I think Claire warned me in advance who it was going to be was tough sea swim. Fortunately we got the full swim, not the shortened version. Lot very, very windy bike and then hot and windy run, and I remember seeing seeing the pros flying by me which of, I dare say, you were one of them that I would have seen. That's unbelievable in in that wind. So describe what happened in that race as far as you're aware, because I don't think you're completely sure what happened, but maybe, maybe, with time, you've worked it out. Um, yeah, just decide, describe what happened in that race for you yeah, I just like very.

Matt Trautman:

It was a very windy day and it's always a tough course, even if the conditions are perfect. You're always in for a reason, for a tough day. But yeah, like I say, we had the full swim, had a, had a great swim and for me, just trying to think it was, I was in the front pack. Yeah, the guy managed to get out first out of transition. Even that was, uh, that was a standout. And yeah, we had some strong bikers that, yeah, there was cam. Yeah, camper was there and erasmus fenningson, who ended up winning, and we were all relatively close together. I think cam had got up the road before my accident, before I crashed. Yeah, it was on the second leap. I think he was ahead by about a minute. But, yeah, very much in the mix, still pushing hard and, yeah, pushed a little too hard. I guess it was, I don't. I don't remember the accident, but someone did take a video of it, surprisingly. So, yeah, could see in hindsight what had happened.

Matt Trautman:

But, yeah, on a descent and I think I just I hit a bump, got a little bit airborne and there was a strong crosswind and like on the tri bike with the disc wheel and deep section front wheel, and I think it just like blew me out and, yeah, I ended up hitting the deck.

Charlie Reading:

In those videos that you sent, like the day after, you do look like you're pretty beaten up. So what? How did you? How did you feel, based on what you'd been through with with the car? How did you feel in those days, that day after?

Matt Trautman:

I mean again, initially I was. I mean I was completely out of. Initially I was. I mean I was completely out of it. I was, yeah, I had quite a bad concussion. Um, so definitely wasn't thinking too straight. Um, apparently all I was uh asking after the crash was was the bike all right, or who's got my bike and where is it? And then, yeah, it was quite. Apparently I don't remember any of this. We're quite keen to know what had happened in the race and kept asking you know, about the outcome of the race.

Matt Trautman:

Um, yeah, there was. I mean, after the accident, besides the concussion, the outbreaks in collarbone and yeah, a lot of road rash and to learn how to operate on the collarbone, yeah, for the second time and I, yeah, matched the other side, so both collarbones broken.

Matt Trautman:

But yeah, I mean, I think like with concussion symptoms it's yeah, it definitely takes a while and to start to start thinking straight again afterwards and like it was quite a. It was a very rough few weeks and post-crash where you, I guess not in your right mind and there's a bit of a daze, like thinking back a bit to this, like very sleepy and and yeah, like I said, just not not thinking straight. But I mean in the end it was, it was the crash that I guess, retired me.

Charlie Reading:

I haven't haven't raced professionally since then obviously there's been a lot of talk about those crashes, but what do you think? What's the toughest moment of your career that people didn't see, that perhaps you know what's been the toughest part of that whole journey for you.

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, I mean this last crash was tough, just not like coming to terms with not racing again and dealing with that and not having, I guess, the ending that I would have wanted having I guess the ending that I would have wanted. Yeah, those few months after that accident were definitely hard to deal with and as professional athletes do, you have lots of setbacks along the way and you know you have your ups and downs and I guess just realizing that there will be, you know there's no down without up and no up without down and you just got to ride that wave and you know, see your way through it to get to the other side of that.

Claire Fudge:

You mentioned there about the 2024 crash and that sent you into retirement. Was that? Were you already thinking about your, your career at that point, before that 2024 race, that actually at some point I'm going to go? I'm going to stop when I go out on a high? Some athletes do different things. They stop when they're at the top of their career or they kind of go out when, when things are sort of changing. So what made you make that decision? Was it purely the crash or were there lots of other factors involved in in your retirement?

Matt Trautman:

yeah, I mean I was, as I said, I'd retired a few times in my head before that, but it was going going to be, you know, potentially my last year, like it's always, I guess it's. It is hard to to retire when you're on top Cause you don't you know, you don't know how long you'll be able to. You know, if you can keep performing, then then you'll do that and I think if I'd had good results last year, I potentially would have done another year. But like I had, I mean I'd had some serious discussions with Nicole about the next steps and Nicole was pregnant with our second child and traveling, yeah, with the young family and trying to make a living. That had been a professional child, it's like, based in South Africa, at least it it does mean a lot of time away from home. So I mean those were were big considerations, um, and then, of course, the financial, the financial aspect.

Matt Trautman:

You got to be doing well in races, um, to earn a living and so, yeah, there were lots of factors, um, and after that crash it was going to be, like you, at least four or five months to get back to a good level of racing again. And yeah weighing everything up, but it just it didn't make sense and, yeah, in a way I lost. I didn't have the same motivation to to prove anything to myself or others again that that.

Matt Trautman:

I could make a comeback. I mean, if I, I think if I'd had the same, I mean definitely, but you know I was a younger, me, and and had the same drive, then you know I could have come back and done something, but, um, just I'd lost that a bit and, yeah, lost the need to to prove anything and it was, it was a good, uh, in the end, good time to move on.

Claire Fudge:

I guess, like you know, a really, really difficult decision. And and now you're coaching and you mentioned, obviously, being coached by or under the eye of Brett Sutton before tell us a little bit about your coaching. So what have coaches in the past, how have they shaped you as an athlete, and what have you taken from that coaching philosophy into your own coaching with athletes now?

Matt Trautman:

yeah, I think Brecht, he was my first. Well, he was my second coach. I was, I was coached by local professional triathlete clearing, kent Horner, which was, yeah, a great start around and they had a great squad here. That that I started with and definitely set me up and set me on the right path. And, yeah, training with others, at least initially, was I mean, yeah, a great fun and great way to learn and be motivated.

Matt Trautman:

And then when I went, when I turned pro, I was looking to race more overseas and try and be based outside of South Africa and so joined Brett Sutton and his squad and, yeah, that was a big, big step in my career and I mean learned, learned loads from Brett. I think his I mean he's he's obviously one of the most successful triathlon coaches in history with the amount of Ironman world titles and Olympic titles. He's got his athletes too. Yeah, I mean his philosophy is quite different, I guess, to a lot of other coaches. He's very good at looking at the entire holistic view of an athlete and, you know, not on on the numbers specifically at all, really and and more just, how do we get this person as a, as a human being, to to their best potential?

Matt Trautman:

yeah, and so looking like looking at the overall picture and I guess knowing which buttons to push to motivate different people and and creating, I mean, the importance of of creating the right environment is is very important and he had, you know, being surrounded by other high-performing athletes in this, in this training environment, where I guess, success is inevitable in the end. That's the way it feels is, yeah, it was huge and I mean there's, yeah, a lot of like subtleties of the way he goes about it and but in the end it's yeah, just just consistent training in the right environment was were the biggest lessons I took from Brett. From that I moved out of the family here, I guess, and we're spending less time overseas and got a local coach who was a lot more into the numbers.

Matt Trautman:

So, I learned more on that technical side of things, on setting specific targets. But yeah, I mean in terms of my own coaching. I guess it's a new approach. I try to take the best of both worlds there and into my coaching now.

Claire Fudge:

A mixture of numbers and that kind of holistic part that you were talking about with Brett, and I guess you're an expert at getting over injuries and being patient with your body, so I'm sure that comes across in your coaching about being patient. Is that something that you see a lot with your athletes in terms of kind of this rushed, got to do more hours and not give yourself enough recovery?

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's definitely a lost art these days in terms of listening to your body and, yeah, dialing into how you feel and on each specific day and not becoming a slave to the program and, yeah, we live in a very like digital connected world and just taking it back to to like, yeah, being in the moments and listening to your body on each day and just trying to get the best out of yourself and on each day instead of chasing you know these these metrics is.

Claire Fudge:

There's a big part of it with your coaching now and with your athletes. I mean, we've been having, obviously, a discussion since the world championships in kona had changed quite considerably and with all the people we've been speaking to all the guests on our podcast and and with our in our own triathlon communities. It's been a really interesting conversation that we've had with lots of people. Yesterday I don't know if the announcement came out before yesterday I saw the announcement of of Kona and the world championships now coming back together so that males and females race on the same day. Tell us a little bit about what Kona and that experience has meant to you. What do you feel sort of makes it really special to you as a race?

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, I mean, kona is the pinnacle of Ironman. There's a lot of mystique around it and, as was clear with the announcements and the polls that they've done it's. It's very important to to people and a big driving factor on why people, a lot of people, race Ironman is to to get to Kona and to tick that box. Yeah, for me, like initially it was yeah, my first world champs was in kona and probably my best race there. I mean not in terms of time, but just in in terms of performance and enjoyment.

Matt Trautman:

After that, I guess, never lacked right and racing and in the heat, comparatively, I always perform better in the cooler conditions. And, yeah, as a professional, the race, definitely you need to, you need to swim well there, you need to be in or very near the front pack in order to perform there. So, like it's a very specific course from the professional side of things to do well, that, yeah, you have to. You have to fit into that box if you're gonna perform there, which, yeah, never really suited me. So, yeah, I would have like, personally, would have liked to race in nice. I think I never. I never did, but that would have been more suited to me. But, yeah, in terms of the announcement. It's that's what, that's what the people wanted and, um, I understand that it's got so much history and there is, you know, it's kona, that's what the birthplace of Ironman is, and I think a good move in terms of giving the people what they want.

Charlie Reading:

It's difficult if you're in South Africa, though, isn't it? So it's a long way from South Africa. I remember chatting to somebody out in Kona, and they'd come over from South Africa and I thought I'd had a long trip and they'd flown to London before they could start their journey or continue their journey to or continue their journey. So it is a long way. So I kind of get why Nice was was a good offering, but I think the more important thing is that we've got the guys and the girls racing back on the same day, which, to me, is is more important than I mean. Kona is obviously the, the iconic place, and we all want to race Kona, but also but I don't know what are your thoughts on bringing the guys and the girls back together?

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, I mean, I think the initial change was that they they tried the two day events in Kona and that wasn't sustainable. And and yeah, I think the initial thinking was that it was more important to try and have separate races than to stay in Kona, which is why they moved to Nice. And yeah, I mean, in terms of the fairness of the professional female race, yeah, you might be, might be losing a bit there, and personally I don't know how much the, like the age group race is affecting the professional female race, um, having passed the age group males around, um, and then there's so like the split coverage and that's not.

Matt Trautman:

You know, each race isn't getting as much attention but yeah, I mean, I think it was it was the only way to keep it in kona was to have it on the same day. In an ideal world, I still think having the other separate races is probably a that's probably a fair race and you know you get the, the focused coverage if you have it on separate days, but yeah, I don't know, I guess.

Charlie Reading:

Yeah, it's a difficult call, isn't it? There is no perfect, is there?

Charlie Reading:

Yeah, the reward of having it in Kona on one day outweighed the, you know, having it somewhere else on separate yeah, and so one of the questions that we finish off with always is we ask our guest for books that have helped them along their journey. So what books do you find yourself, either you know, recommending to the people you coach, or what books particularly helped you on your journey through sport? Well, any books, any books. Actually, it doesn't have to be a sporting book.

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, I think the standout book I really enjoyed, which I read when I was first starting out in triathlon, was the Sports Gene by David Epstein. That was a good read, and Alex Hutchinson Endure. That book was a great one, like sports specific.

Charlie Reading:

By the way. So David Epstein was also the guy that wrote Range, which was what we where. We started this conversation really. But yes, brilliant, brilliant book. What did you take from Endure? We've had Alex Hutchinson on the podcast and he's brilliant. I love that book. What did you, what did you learn from that book?

Matt Trautman:

okay, but that's naive, I think. In this specific no, I got like to be honest. I can't remember exactly what, uh, what was in there, even it was a few years ago, but I remember really enjoying it.

Charlie Reading:

Yeah, it's a brilliant. It's a brilliant book. Any others that you would throw out there as books that helped you on your journey.

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, the one I read um in 2017, which made a big difference, was a book by ryan holiday called the obstacle is all is the way, and that is just about embracing, I guess, where you are and just overcoming, like, overcoming the obstacle is the point, and if there's any points at all, then then that is it that is.

Charlie Reading:

It is also a great book, and I can see why in 2017, that would have been a very helpful book for for getting you through what was clearly a huge obstacle, and then what we also do. We have a closing tradition on the podcast where we get the last guest to ask the next guest a question without knowing who that's going to be. Our last guest was john hutton obe, who is the ceo of british cycling and claire. I think you've got John's question for Matt, haven't you?

Claire Fudge:

So John Dutton asked what three leaders, dead or alive, would you invite to dinner, and why?

Matt Trautman:

I think it would be interesting to this may be controversial, but have Jesus, buddha and maybe Lao Tzu, the founder of Taoism, or Muhammad there's some different perspectives on religion and the founding members and hear what they have to say to each other. I think that would be quite entertaining.

Charlie Reading:

Wow, I think that would definitely be entertaining. So when I saw that we were going to be asking you that question, I was like, well, Nelson Mandela is obviously going to be one of those people um, what question would you specifically ask at that table?

Matt Trautman:

just to open up the conversation oh man, I don't think you'd have to ask anything. I've been you could just sit back and let them fight it out.

Claire Fudge:

Enjoy the different views my first question is what would they eat?

Matt Trautman:

Just looking at that range of people sat there, well, I mean you could just water and bread and could turn it into anything, I guess, and some red wine maybe it would be a feast, obviously, which would have to be South African red wine, just to finish it off nicely. Brilliant.

Charlie Reading:

Matt, it's been fascinating chatting to you. I think it's been fascinating chatting to you. I think it's. It's incredible how you got through that first crash and came back even stronger and performed like in clearly very difficult circumstances, um got back right back to the top of the sport. But I think it's been. It's been an incredible journey and it's been really interesting to learn how you got through that and and where you're heading next. So just to finish off, what's next? What are you excited about in the future?

Matt Trautman:

well, at the moment I'm working back in the sailing industry. I'm doing sail design for a sail making company in coton coton almond sales and, yeah, getting back into the racing again. We got the lipton Cup coming up, which is probably the biggest inshore sailing event here in South Africa, so I've designed some sails for the boats that we're racing on and, yeah, that's been a challenge and, you know, a big learning experience and I mean that is, yeah, definitely keeping me, keeping me motivated and engaged at the moment. So the next goal is improve as a, as a sail diviner and, yeah, getting back into into the sailing game, which is a sport you can do for for a long time yes, it's not quite so hard on your body as as some of the other previous ones, matt, it's been absolutely brilliant.

Charlie Reading:

Where do people find out more about you?

Matt Trautman:

yeah, I mean that's. It's a tricky one, cause I don't do too much on social media, but yeah, I do have. Yeah, you can go and find me on Instagram, maddy Trautman, and you might see some updates every few months there. But yeah, otherwise, yeah, I mean reach out on Instagram in terms of the coaching. Yeah, if you are, if you are interested, then that is, you can get hold of me there, matty Traffman on Instagram.

Charlie Reading:

Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you and yeah, we look forward to following the journey as it continues.

Matt Trautman:

Yeah, thanks guys, it's been a pleasure Simon.

Charlie Reading:

So what do you make of the conversation with Matt?

Claire Fudge:

I thought it was fascinating actually with I mean, I'm saying fascinating, we're talking about crashes, aren't we? But I think his I mean his starting point, and this made me think, actually, we've interviewed lots of guests in terms of triathlon that have started with this kind of swimming background and essentially he had this like water background, didn't he? I know he did lots of different sports, but that was really interesting just to. I guess it comes back to this having discipline at a young age in an inner sports, like being in a sport. So that was really interesting to me. And also there was two things actually I wrote down as he was saying it. It was fascinating, I don't think. Well, since I've been co-hosting the podcast, I don't think we've had anyone in terms of sailing yachts.

Claire Fudge:

I might well be mistaken, no, I don't think so so that was fascinating and I was thinking like, how does that transfer onto sort of you know, semi dry land? But actually him saying that it taught him to think about keeping your equipment like prepped, and you know you've got to make sure that you maintain things and also this you know, being at sea, of course is out of your control the whole time, isn't it? So I thought that was really interesting. That kind of he's come into triathlon later on in life, progressed really quickly, and yet he's got this kind of background of like look after your kit, because a lot of triathletes don't do that particularly well, and this kind of being out of control, that that day is never going to go completely as planned. What were your thoughts?

Charlie Reading:

Well, I completely agree and I think so. Where we started the conversation as well was about this difference between range and niching and specialising too early. And I think it's really interesting when you hear from people like him that have come in from a kayaking background, playing lots of different sports at school and then going into sailing and then becoming, you know, like, pretty late on, deciding I'm going to try triathlon because I saw the Brownlees do really well in London, and then, like a year or two later, he's winning Ironmans and turning pro. I mean it's absolutely amazing, but it is a really great demonstration.

Charlie Reading:

And in range, david Epstein uses this example of Roger Federer versus Tiger Woods, and the example is that Tiger Woods is, you know, the golfer who, at the age of two, was swinging a golf club and at the age of four he was going around a nine hole course in like 42 or whatever the number was like ludicrously good. And versus Roger Federer who and then, obviously so Tiger Woods goes on to become the best golfer in the world ever. And then Roger Federer, he played loads of different sports. It was only in his late teenage years that he decided to niche down and specialize in tennis. He obviously went on to become well, arguably the best tennis player of all time. So I'm sure Novak would have a discussion about that.

Charlie Reading:

But and and yet we think we think that most of the top you know, best athletes in the world ever go down the Tiger Woods path and like specialize really early and yet actually 95% of the top athletes come from a more diverse, ranged background and they're more like the Roger Federer and I think that's really interesting and I think that's kind of a bit of what we're seeing with this swimming background and people not necessarily ending up as swimmers, but it's kind of giving them range and helping them in different ways and in the same way that kayaking helped him. So I thought that was really interesting. What did you make about his kind of approach to returning after those crashes or after the first crash?

Claire Fudge:

Interesting, isn't it? Because both his crashes were quite different in terms of I mean, obviously the second one he didn't return, but almost kind of where he was in terms of his career and maybe him still loving that sport, so that that drive to actually and he didn't mention some of the things actually I'd read in terms of his thoughts at that time but this kind of actually do you know what I'm? I want to go back to this kind of just being being able to be somebody normal that can go out for a run and have a run, like I think it really puts into perspective you know the way he told it in terms of you know, actually you're lucky that there wasn't any other spinal trauma and damage in terms of nerve damage. This is what we can do, which is not particularly great, but this is the best option and actually I'd be happy if I can run from this and this is my, you know, this is my goal, and it must have been really difficult to be able to trust your body that it's okay to get back running, to get back out there on a bike.

Claire Fudge:

Um, I've worked with numerous patients, but also athletes, that have had spinal injuries and it's quite terrifying to get back out there and like go, I don't know, is it okay, can I run, can I cycle? So it was Can I run, can I cycle. So it was amazing that he made this. You know this huge comeback and the fact that he just kind of threw himself back into things, but also you know how that maybe translated into his way that he went about training as well, because he talked quite a bit about you know, respecting the recovery, that it did take a long time, that it did take longer to get back into it. And you know, respecting the recovery, that it did take a long time, that I did take longer to get back into it and even with that, he still had setbacks of those injuries.

Charlie Reading:

But he was just gonna, you know, just gonna keep going. And he alluded to the fact that and I don't know that he said it specifically, but I've heard him say elsewhere his, his training changed quite a lot. He switched doing, I think, on the bike. Something like 80% of his training turned to indoors and, yeah, and you can understand why that would be the case. I mean, obviously, it helps you train more specifically, but, yeah, you can understand, having been hit from behind by a car, why that would, why that would be the case. So, yeah, I mean, it's phenomenal that he could do that, but I think he also was pushing too hard and it was Brett that said no, no, you need to back off a bit and actually allow this recovery to be, to be slower than you're trying to to make it, which you know, I, you know, I suppose is the importance of having a coach, isn't it? Sometimes you need? You need them to tell you to slow down as opposed to speed up.

Claire Fudge:

I think it also comes back to listening. You know, listening to you, and I always talk about, you know, with my clients, about listening to their body, because you know your body does tell you things, it's just we override it the whole time and you know it takes a long time to recover from a lot of these things and actually listening to that intuition. So having you're absolutely right, you know, having that coach there, and that's the importance of having a person as a coach, the importance of having a person as a coach. You know, we talk, we often talk about ai, don't we? In terms of you know, having, having, you know, your data there to tell you one thing, but it can't tell you actually whether you're ready to go forward, if you're, if you're suffering from an injury. So I think that you know, all three of those things are, you know, are really, really, really important. Do you know?

Claire Fudge:

I I thought it's really interesting mentioned, and I picked up on it with him about the field becoming more competitive, which I thought was really interesting. You know, at the time he was saying, well, maybe the field wasn't, I mean, maybe he was being very humble about his wins and how well he did, you know, but actually how that field has become. You know, a lot more competitive over the years. What are your thoughts on that? More competitive over the?

Charlie Reading:

years. What are your thoughts on that? I think you only have to look at the times to see that it is definitely more competitive. The guys at the top of the sport are taking it more seriously from a science and technology point of view than it's ever been taken before. I mean I's what's fascinating is we're only just now starting to see, if you discount the advantage of riding a much more aero, much faster bike. We're only in in the last two or three years have we started to see them coming back to.

Charlie Reading:

You're getting past the times that mark allen and dave scott were doing, which shows you how phenomenal those guys, those guys were. But I think, yes, from a science and technology point of view, obviously, in a nutrition sense, it's just so much more scientific than it's ever been and therefore it yet, yes, it is, and people are starting long course much earlier, which is, you know, they're specializing in that and that's only gonna mean that you end up with with with better athletes in it. So, yes, I, I think that's the case. But, yeah, another fascinating conversation, another like an amazing story from a, an unbelievable athlete. So for everyone else, keep on training.