Business of Endurance

Crawling Forward: The Iconic Ironman Journey Of Julie Moss

• Charlie Reading

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What does it take to change the course of an entire sport - and inspire millions in the process? 

Today’s guest, Julie Moss, did exactly that when she crawled across the finish line of the Ironman World Championship in 1982. That moment, broadcast to millions, didn't just redefine endurance - it redefined what the human spirit looks like under pressure. 

In this episode, Julie opens up about the real reason she was in Kona that day, the life-altering impact of that crawl, and how she's used endurance as a tool to navigate divorce, aging, and reinvention. 

We talk longevity, mental grit, racing through pain, and why endurance sport continues to be a powerful force for personal transformation. 

Whether you're chasing your first finish line or navigating your own midlife reset, this episode offers raw stories, timeless lessons, and a reminder: sometimes crawling forward is still progress.

Highlights:

  • Thesis to Triathlon: Julie's journey of entering her first Ironman for a college thesis - with almost no training.
  • Belonging at the Front: How worthiness clicked mid-race when she realised she could win.
  • Finish-Line Fall, Global Rise: The world watched her struggle; she found transformation in those final metres.
  • Partners in Performance: How her relationship with Mark Allen shaped two careers and a sport.
  • Healing in Motion: Using triathlon to navigate divorce and life’s hardest chapters.
  • New Hips, New Horizons: Rebuilding identity and finding fresh pursuits after hip replacement.
  • Kona at 70: Eyeing a 2028 50th-anniversary return - experience over youth, wisdom over watts.
  • The Brain Breaks Barriers: The mind’s command to push the body beyond its perceived limits.
  • The Yes Ratio: Saying “yes” more than “no” as the gateway to extraordinary moments. 


Links:

Connect with Julie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julie_moss_1982/

Connect with Julie onFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/p/Julie-Moss-Page-100048855326535/

Connect with Julie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-moss-b2b43162/


Please Subscribe to Business of Endurance on Apple Podcasts, leave a comment, and give us a 5-Star review. 

This episode was sponsored by The Trusted Team and 4th Discipline

Julie Moss:

At that moment where I fell the first time because there were four falls before I had to crawl, it was really about just figuring out how to keep moving forward, and I think everyone who's been involved in endurance sports of any kind has had that moment where all you can think about is how to keep moving forward.

Charlie Reading:

What's it take to change the course of an entire sport and inspire millions in the process? Well, today's guest, julie Moss, did exactly that when she crawled across the finish line in the Ironman World Championship in 1982. That moment, broadcast to millions, didn't just redefine endurance. It redefined what the human spirit looks like under pressure. In this episode, julie opens up about the real reason she was in Kona that day, the life-altering impact of that crawl and how she's used endurance as a tool to navigate divorce, aging and reinvention. We talk longevity, mental grit, racing through pain, and why endurance. Sport continues to be a powerful force for personal transformation. So, whether you're chasing your first finish line or navigating your own midlife reset, this episode offers raw stories, timeless lessons and a reminder Sometimes crawling forward is still progress. So let's dive into this incredible episode with the legend of the world of triathlon, which is Julie Moss. Legend of the world of triathlon, which is Julie Moss.

Charlie Reading:

Do you know what? When we look at the back end of this podcast, then we see something really interesting. We see that 57% of the people that regularly listen to it haven't hit the subscribe button. So could I ask you a quick favor before we dive into today's episode, if you're enjoying Claire and I bringing you amazing guests, not asking you for patronage fees and not jamming the podcast full of adverts, then the best way you can help us continue to do that and to make it even better is to hit that subscribe button. And here's my promise to you when you subscribe we'll make it our mission, along with the team that supports us, to continue to improve this podcast every week. So thank you so much for your support and for being a part of the Business of Endurance community. Let's dive in. So, julie, welcome to the Business of Endurance podcast.

Charlie Reading:

Endurance podcast wow, I am looking forward to talking to you. What an icon from the sport that I know, claire and I love. And I really want to start with that moment. That, because that moment, the 6th of february, which, by the way, is also my birthday I'm sure that's not awesome, but it was it struck a note with me. The 6 6th of February 1982, not only defined you as an endurance athlete, but also was like an unbelievable moment in the world of Ironman and sparked a global endurance movement. I think. So I want you to start by taking us to that moment, that moment that you were approaching the Kona finish line. Your first Ironman, one of the first Ironmans. What were you thinking about as you were approaching the finish but struggling to kind of get to that finish line?

Julie Moss:

OK, charlie, you're just going to cut right to the chase, aren't you? The thought that was in my mind was to win, and that wasn't something that was very novel to me, let's just say it never existed before, other than, you know, playing Monopoly or something as a kid. But winning was not a part of my persona. It was not something that I was used to. I wasn't a competitive athlete of any kind. I participated in sport in school. But to find myself in the position of leading the Ironman and knowing ABC cameras are on me and all of that was just wildly uncharted territory. So to be leading the race and then to kind of have this concept of myself as someone who could even be leading a race, all of that was just that was a big bag, mixed bag of emotions that I was dealing with. So the physical struggle really probably took me out of my head and just made me focus on just literally putting one foot in front of the other.

Julie Moss:

And at that moment where I fell the first time because there were four falls before I had to crawl it was really about just figuring out how to keep moving, how to keep moving forward, and I think everyone who's been involved in endurance sports of any kind, has had that moment where all you can think about is how to keep moving forward, fighting all the emotions that go with that, all the disappointments of now being on the ground when you should be running towards a finish line.

Julie Moss:

All of that was coming down to this finite point of how do I keep moving forward. So it sounds kind of clinical, really, because it was very emotional, but all I could do was figure out how to get up off the ground when I fell, how to keep moving forward Once I got off of the ground, could I walk? And if I could walk, then I had to try and run, I had to try and win. So really, forward motion with the drive of trying to win something for the first time and it had to be a very big thing in my case was all I was thinking about.

Charlie Reading:

And what do you think shifted in you during those last moments of the Ironman? What do you think changed in you mentally?

Julie Moss:

Okay, well, we have to go back. It was about mile 18 when there was a real shift. It wasn't in those last moments that the shift happened. About mile 18, out on the marathon course, I was in the lead and I saw Kathleen McCartney coming towards me and she looked fantastic. She looked like what I imagined an Ironman triathlete should look like, who was going to win the race and we've talked about that together many times. I know you probably talked to her about that, but in that moment of seeing her I knew what I was doing wasn't good enough. I had to find another gear to kind of keep maintaining what I was doing wasn't good enough. I had to find another gear to kind of keep maintaining what I was doing and even pushing forward.

Julie Moss:

And the process of having to push now from mile 18 to, let's say, mile 22,. My body was breaking down pretty fast. So now I'm not making it from aid station to aid station. I'm now having to stop and walk and as my body was breaking down, feeling of the word of worthiness comes to mind. It was the feeling like I deserve to be in this position, even though it's new, it's foreign, I've never had it before but I deserve it just as much as Kathleen McCartney back there who's looking great and who's probably going to catch me. But I deserve it just as much and I think to find that place of worthiness in you. It opens up a possibility that for me was translating to physically. I could physically keep overcoming the breakdown because my mind was telling me I deserve this. Does that click a little bit? The mind was now driving my body and that the emotion behind it wasn't just a thought. It was an emotion of I really could be good at something. I've never pushed myself to be good at something, but I actually could be if I just keep trying hard enough. So that was being honed in the really the difficult miles of the marathon.

Julie Moss:

By mile 25, where we all, you both know, you're at the top of Palani and it's downhill and you think you've got this. That's where my body really didn't respond to that downhill running. But now I'm really feeling like a champion and I'm going to win this thing. So I get down Palani Hill, I get almost to Elite E-Drive and that's when my legs just gave out and that's where the scramble really started to happen of fighting this new desire, this new acceptance of myself as being someone who could win to. Now, having a body that isn't working and so it was just it brought out the best in me. My body breaking down to the point where I'm on the ground and can't figure out how to make my legs move is now bringing out the best of me, emotionally and spiritually. That fight, that fight for what your worthiness, that you are worth fighting for that was everything. That's what that initial Ironman gave me.

Julie Moss:

Did I go into it thinking that was after? Absolutely not. But the crawling, the getting up, trying to get to the finish line was really about completing the journey that started deep into the marathon of my discovering who I was as a person. Yes, it was coming out as an athlete, but it's. Who am I as a person? And I'm somebody who is I? I just get really tired of saying I, but that moment gave me the opportunity to discover something about myself. I don't think I would have found any other way.

Charlie Reading:

Amazing and it is such incredible footage. I watched it back again yesterday, having seen it several times in the past, and it's just unbelievable footage. I watched it back again yesterday I mean having seen it several times in the past and it's just unbelievable footage. How does it make you feel to watch that footage back now?

Julie Moss:

I'm kind of amazed. I feel very vulnerable when I watch that, because I was going through something that was incredibly personal and in the later stages it was humiliating, but in a way now that I can look back and say, well, that's just part of sport. When it was happening to me it was like incredible humiliation, vulnerability, pride, courage. I see the courage that I had and so, yeah, I ran the gambits. But I'd say, if I had to pick one word to just one word to describe what I feel when I see that footage is just pride. I was the girl who put the sport on the map. I was the girl who went through all of that to give people an idea that they could find something within themselves in an endurance event like the Ironman.

Charlie Reading:

Brilliant. And reading the Crawl of Fame which, by the way, I love, as we were talking before we hit record best cover of all time. Just, I love the feel of the cover, of the, of the number on your chest, but it's interesting because you talk about how the humiliation part of it. And actually the tv channel offered to sort of cover it up, didn't they? And sort of over it and and you said no, no, we need to keep this more real. What was it at the time that made you kind of want to almost accept the humiliation part of some of that footage?

Julie Moss:

Because the outcome of the race was, you know it. Just, it changed my life. I can't, I can't cover that up, I can't make it prettier than it was. It was gritty, it was messy and it was transformative. So, no, you can't, can't rewrite history. That's how it happened, and I was really in this place of, I think, because it had just happened. I remember when the producers called me and they said you know, this is what we think happened, and I could have said, oh yeah, that's what happened, but it's like, no, this is when something big happens. I think you have to own every aspect of it.

Claire Fudge:

When I was doing some research around this, I didn't realize the reason you were racing that Kona race. My understanding is you were there doing, or where it began was as part of your thesis project. Why that project took you to do the Ironman in Kona and how that race and that spark from racing actually evolved into something much bigger.

Julie Moss:

Okay, well, I was in college, because that's just what you did. I didn't have a career path that I was focused on. I wasn't a very focused student, in fact. So I had a physical education major student, in fact. So I was. I had a physical education major, it was, it was a bachelor of science. So it actually pushed me to have to be a better student than I wanted to be.

Julie Moss:

And I saw the Ironman on television and I thought that is a really cool event, meaning good looking men that stand around in speedos at the start of the swim and wow, that's kind of fun. And it never really occurred to me that, oh, you know, you're putting together these huge events and it's this amazing, you know, endurance event. I just saw it on TV and thought, wow, that looks cool, it's in Hawaii. So that's where the seed was planted initially, and I kept watching and I kept watching. And then there was something about the marathon, the late stages of the marathon, and and seeing the expressions on these athletes and thinking, ooh, that's pretty, that's pretty gritty, but it drew me in. You know, it's like with the train wreck. I was like, wow, I couldn't stop watching. So the seed was planted and a couple of weeks later it's getting to the point where I need to declare you know what my project's going to be so I can graduate. And I just thought, oh yeah, I should do that Kona race, that Ironman, that looks, that sounds impressive, and I'll take it to my advisor. My mom will pay for a free trip for Hawaii, won't this be great? So I'm sitting with my advisor and he's asking me you know what's my background in swimming? No, I don't swim, I surf. What's your running background? Nothing. What's your biking background? I ride my bike. You know to my job? You know for school. And he just started laughing. He said well, let's see how this turns out. He didn't discourage me. He didn't say that you're crazy. I kind of liked that about him, that he said this is a crazy wild dream, just go after it.

Julie Moss:

So I did what I normally do for all my school projects I waited. I just procrastinated. I did other things, I had other classes, I had to go surfing, I had to work and all of a sudden it's getting late and I have to turn in a progress on this training. And I didn't have anything. And we're talking that Ironman was February and by November I haven't. Really I have to start faking training. So I'm faking these, these logs and and then I kind of put in okay, and a marathon, I better have done a marathon. And so I did sign up for a marathon and I went and did it and it was terrible. The last six miles were terrible, but I hadn't run over eight miles. So this is this is this is Julie in that stage of my life. We wing it, we just have a great attitude, we have fun, we show up for a marathon never having run over eight miles and it was rough.

Julie Moss:

By early January I'm thinking I got to do another marathon and erase that awful experience. So I jumped in and did another marathon. The exact opposite of what you would do to properly prepare for an Ironman is how I train. So what did I have going for me going into this experience? A willingness to do crazy things, a willingness to just jump in and try and to just kind of anticipate that I don't expect anything as far as how I finish other than that I have to finish. And that was. It was just to get a grade in this class. So that was me showing up in Hawaii two weeks prior to the Ironman. I'd run two marathons too close together, and I showed up in Hawaii having never done the distance on the bike and never having swam the distance, so this is a cautionary tale. Of course I'm going to end up crawling at some point in this race, when you think about my training.

Claire Fudge:

I want to come on to the training, actually, but you've you've answered a little bit of it there and I'm kind of seeing how that might have played out. Do you think at that moment in time there was something inside you that was, you know, looking for adventure or looking to challenge or push yourself at that time?

Julie Moss:

I think so. Yeah, I mean it started showing up in other ways through surfing and pushing myself out into surf. That was way too big for my abilities, but yet this feeling of diving under a big wave and getting tumbled around and not hating it, and so the fact that the Ironman was an open water swim, that didn't bother me at all. That's a huge hurdle for a lot of first time triathletes is getting into open water. That didn't bother me. The idea that this sport was so new when I got this whim to do it there were no books, there were no coaches. I could find one article on the sport of triathlon to support my thesis and so, getting to Hawaii, I was suddenly surrounded with probably about 300 other people who actually were doing the sport.

Julie Moss:

It was like Mentorville. I landed and everybody wanted to help what You've never done the swim. Well, come swim with us. And it was just this friendly, low-key sort of environment of nurturing and access to information. I was literally dropped into this energy center of triathletes that I had never met. There was not one other triathlete in the entire student body of Cal Poly. San Luis Obispo is where I graduated. So to be in Hawaii for two weeks and have this opportunity to immerse. Immersion was, it was fun and it was somehow because I wasn't over-trained, to say the least. I absorbed all that training really well and I was just training hours a day, every day, and when the race came up, I think, as my race played out, I almost got it right. You know, if we're, you know, getting stronger and easing into this, but just building and building and building and doing the race was pretty good until that's the last six miles of that.

Claire Fudge:

So what it sounds like is that your training, where you were really learning everything, sounds like the last two weeks before you actually raced. Is that really how it played out? I know you mentioned a couple of marathons. What did it look like in those kind of months coming up to the race? Was it really sort of hit and miss? It was kind of.

Julie Moss:

I wasn't taking many swings, I was just. I went for maybe one bike ride a week because I knew I had to and I remember thinking it was so boring and getting in a pool and trying to swim a mile was so boring. I think I needed the camaraderie to make it less boring, because this is me getting on my bike that I used to commute around school and trying to go out and ride 60 miles was horrible. I mean, the nutrition didn't exist, it was. You know, I think I don't even know if I had a water bottle cage on my bike. I think I must have put one on, but that's the kind of thought. It was just so rough.

Julie Moss:

However, I should say that those two marathons I ran weren't bad times for somebody who wasn't trained. I mean, I showed up at the Oakland Marathons in November thinking I'm going to run 330. I don't know why. It just seems like a nice number. I think I just thought, ok, 330 it is. I blew up badly, having never run over eight miles, and I ran 338, 339.

Julie Moss:

A lot of people train a long time to come within 10 minutes of their goal time. This was on no training, so there was some natural endurance there. The second marathon I ran was six weeks later, eight weeks later, six weeks later, weeks later, and I said, okay, 3.30, here's the goal. I got to the half marathon mark at 1.42. And I thought I better stand around here and wait and drink water and just wait till it hits 1.45. Because I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm trying to pace myself better.

Julie Moss:

So I ended up blowing up at mile 23, having stood around for almost three minutes and ran a 3.32. So there's some endurance in there that doesn't just come out unless there's something going on. So maybe that kind of gave me the confidence to know that when I put my mind to it I can get a hundred mile ride done. And sure enough it was. You know, I got to go to Kona and Kathleen and I really met at the time trial of the course two weeks before the race. But there was a time trial, maybe, yeah, two weeks before, and I jumped into this time trial and we weren't that far apart. So now I became like this person to look at, but that was the first time I'd ever ridden the course.

Charlie Reading:

There'll be people listening to this thinking, well, you're just, you were just naturally good at endurance sport, weren't you? But then, typically, when you, when you look at there's that 10,000 hours rule, where which which gets over, quoted Typically what happens is you go, well, mozart, mozart was a child genius. But actually, when you look behind the scenes of what happened in the years leading up to become him, becoming the Mozart that we, that we know and love, he actually did do his 10,000 hours. It was just people didn't see it. And I wonder, was that the case with you? Were you doing like the surfing, were you doing lots of other things that gave you that engine, gave you that endurance, and then you could just, it just so happened that you could apply it to swim, bike and run. Or were you just naturally like is this a natural talent that you were born with?

Julie Moss:

Charlie, probably because there are some things happening there. Because I wasn't a pool swimmer, I didn't think of myself as a swimmer. However, I developed as a swimmer might develop at a young age, from surfing from 13, 14 on, and I did have a job as a lifeguard at a lake because I could do open water swimming and I had to ride my bike to the lake, which is about 30 miles each way to the lake. So, yeah, there was some stuff happening.

Julie Moss:

So really what was happening is you were getting that fitness from other sources and it just so happened that that actually translated well into yeah, if you didn't, if I did and this was a summer job so it wasn't year round, but if it was for work, I just it was transportation. So yeah, I wasn't. So the training aspect was not something that I think I did very well, but I did life pretty well, yeah.

Charlie Reading:

Okay, that makes sense. Looking back on that day in Kona, what would you do differently, knowing what you know now? I mean, I know there was a moment with the Snickers bar that didn't go well for you. What would you do differently? And I suppose the second question, the sort of follow-up question to that, is would you do it differently, knowing what then happened, how it all played out for you and the sport?

Julie Moss:

Well, okay, first, I know what I would do differently is that I would have the confidence to know an eight-minute lead late in a marathon isn't gonna no one's gonna catch you unless you completely fall apart and land on the ground. So I could have done a lot of walking, I could have done a lot of things just to get the win and so, yeah, so I get the win. Then I would be like the woman I'd watched the year before who came across the line and no one ever heard from her again. It was needed, women needed to have a presence in that sport, and this was one of the moments that was going to propel not just the sport but women in the sport.

Julie Moss:

So the other part of the question is would I have done it differently? I didn't. I didn't get. You know, you don't get that chance. You have to just play the hand that's dealt you. And in retrospect, I don't think women would. It would have taken women a lot longer to get to the forefront of the sport and to get the average person interested in the sport. It would have taken a lot longer. So the outcome is one thing. But you're asking would I have done it differently? No, I don't think so. I didn't have it within any part of my being to know to do it differently. I just had to do it the way I'd done everything Go big or go home. I just had to do it the way I'd done everything Go big or go home.

Charlie Reading:

And I think I'm right in saying that your win in 1989 was kind of the moment that you were most proud of as or like the win that you were proud of. Is that true?

Julie Moss:

So tell us a little bit about how that win played out and why it meant you know, why were you so proud of that one? Well, I think in taking what I from kona, then I was thrust into this professional role because the the sport was developing different. Abc, mbc, cbs, all wanted their version of the iron man and so races were being developed strictly for television. This provided careers and opportunities for the handful of athletes that were at the forefront of the sport. So I was riding that way. But by 1989 sport was well established. The women of athletes that were at the forefront of the sport. So I was riding that way. But by 1989, the sport was well-established, the women in the sport were really good and I had started to put in those 10,000 hours. I mean, I'm really focusing on what it is to be a triathlete.

Julie Moss:

And by 1987, years into the sport, I finally hit that point where everything was sort of clicking into the sport. I finally hit that point where everything was sort of clicking. I was accepting myself as a professional athlete. That means you show up every day, you do your best. I had the opportunity for about six weeks to hang out with the best athletes in the world down in New Zealand. I was with Scott Molina, aaron Baker, mark Allen, colleen Cannon. These were really good athletes and for me to have that opportunity to be immersed in their training and doing the best I could day after day, I showed up at the race on the Gold Coast thinking not about how I'm going to finish, but how is this training going to translate? The first time I've really put together a serious come from a serious training block. How is this going to? How am I and this training going to show up at this race?

Julie Moss:

And I was so present, I was so in the moment of this race, that that training, just it came out and it was a really wonderful feeling. You talk about spiritual, emotional, physical, our spiritual, I'd say mental, physical all coming together. That was that experience of that race. I allowed myself to be curious. The entire race, what's in here? Yeah, okay, the miles are feeling good. This is what you and Aaron Baker were running. You know it's close to this. Why can't you run in the entire? You know 1830 K, I think it was the race. Why can't you run in the entire? You know 18, 30k, I think it was the race. Why can't you run that? And anyway, it was just a perfect combination of having done the training, showing up with a willingness to explore what the training was going to look like and not thinking about anybody else, just thinking about me and my race and what I was able to do.

Charlie Reading:

I think there's a moment where you were racing alongside Paul and Ubi Fraser, weren't you? And just tell us about that moment and how that kind of defined the race for you.

Julie Moss:

Well, like I said, I'd done this training block with Aaron Baker, who at the time was Paul's biggest rival, sort of putting myself in her sphere, sort of gave me a new confidence that I was a better runner than everyone else had told me I was. And so Paula and I were on the run together and we were back together till almost, I think, five to 10 K somewhere in there, and Paula in my perception she slowed down. I think we were nearing the next woman who we going to catch and that would put us in first and second. And I think Paula thought she didn't have to think about me like I'm not a good runner, so she could slip back off and gather herself for her win. And Paula's going to laugh and say that is not what I was thinking, julie, but that's what it felt like. So it's what it feels like.

Julie Moss:

And that was my perception. And I thought come on, I've committed to this pace, I committed to this, I'm going to stay with it. And that was exactly that's all it was is I've committed to this, I'm going to stay with it. Paula, you can do what you need to do, but I'm committing to what we started running these first few miles at and continue to run, that it can be so simple, right, those moments that look big or they're supposed to be, they can be little, small moments where you just say the right thing to yourself at the right time.

Claire Fudge:

I was going to ask about that sort of like internal dialogue that you were talking about there. Is that the first time that you really used kind of like you talked about being curious but this questioning of like you know, how am I feeling, you know what, what is it that I need, like all of those questions? Is that the first time that you really kind of started to be more curious and ask those questions and therefore be able to step up, so to speak?

Julie Moss:

The basis of that curiosity came from confidence. Confidence in the training I've done, like I've done this great block of training. How does that translate? That's the curious part. It was the confidence of having put in the work and now seeing how that is going to come out in the race. I hadn't done that kind of training. I mean I'd been hit or miss, as you said earlier. Hit or miss, it was a lot of miss, and so the consistency finally came together.

Julie Moss:

After years of being around great athletes, I finally decided for myself I want to know what kind of athlete am I? So that was the first question. That was the curiosity statement that happened months earlier. And then the willingness to put in the time to get this block done and then to say, okay, how does this translate for me? Not in comparison to anybody else, but how does this translate to me as an athlete? And so, yo, that was months earlier is when the big question was what kind of athlete do you really want to be? And so then I was willing to put in a lot of time and effort to make that question. Have clarity, have taken new shape and a new form to make that question?

Claire Fudge:

have clarity, have taken new shape and a new form. And with that, you know, with that sort of change in mindset and also around that time, I'm really interested and I know you've spoken a little bit when I've been listening to a few other podcasts about you sort of that nutrition, what happens like towards the end In 1980, the availability of nutrition products, so to speak, it was, you know, very, very limited. I think it was right at the beginnings of, you know, what we have today. How did that? How did you change your nutrition, like this change in mindset of like wanting to find out, you know, what kind of an athlete you could be. What happened over those years in terms of changes in nutrition for you, in terms of racing?

Julie Moss:

Well, the same changes that happened for everybody. The products started to get developed, we had opportunities to train with those products and that's you know. It just became super matter of fact. Now we have products, so now we train with them. You go for a long ride, you drink what you're going to be drinking in a race. It just became kind of a standard. So we helped create that standard of nutrition training. You know, taking in salt to all the things that we were experimenting with. Now we have products, now we can test them in training and then in racing and so, yeah, nutritionally, I don't remember ever having one issue in that race in 1989. It was just spot on. It also wasn't a marathon. I think that was a really golden distance. It was very probably similar to the PTO's series that you kind of find your sweet spot on what is the good distance for you. That was probably a perfect distance for me too.

Charlie Reading:

Brilliant, perfect distance for me too Brilliant. So when we interviewed Kathleen, we talked about how she used Ironman and endurance sport to help her navigate a difficult time in life, through her divorce. And likewise, I've read and listened to you talk about how you did the same and in fact you actually sort of came together and supported each other on that through those difficult times, didn't you? So how do you think endurance sport helped you navigate through the difficulty of a divorce? How do you think it helped you provide structure, healing, clarity, what did it do for you in that time and why did you come back to the sport around the time of your divorce?

Julie Moss:

I think divorce, any sort of big upheaval in your life, certainly divorce, ranks up there with pretty highly with those kinds of events that first, I think, you kind of hit a rock bottom, you emotionally. When you hit a rock bottom, you need something to pull you back up. I think the community of triathlon sort of taking your mind off of whatever it is that you're going through at that moment, training and being around a really supportive community can help you in that way. Ultimately, when I think about going back to Ironman, specifically that distance of endurance, it's to test me and test me in ways that I don't know the answer to. Just the way in 1982, that first race, I didn't know what I was made of, told me you're made of. Don't know the answer to. Just the way in 1982, that first race, I didn't know what I was made of, told me you're made of more than you think you are.

Julie Moss:

And right now, let's say, when I'm going through a divorce, I'm not feeling that. I'm not feeling that warrior spirit that I discovered so long ago. I know it's there but I'm not feeling it. So I signed up for an Ironman and I thought I'll figure it out and it's. I'll take my mind off what's going on with me right now, I will physically get stronger, I will be reminded of my better parts of myself and ultimately, with endurance sports, it strips off layers of you so you can get down to the good stuff.

Julie Moss:

And whether you're feeling sorry for yourself or you truly have got things that you've got to get through, it helps take those layers off and opens up a space in yourself. That vulnerability, that perseverance, that drive, that fire is waiting. But sometimes you have to claw off the layers to get to it and put yourself in an Ironman race and you will get there, unless the race is going really well. If you're having a perfect race and you're just cruising along, you may miss that piece. But I think you've had to get through a lot of layers to get to the point where you're in a space where you can have a great race. Endurance athletics is the fastest way to getting underneath all the stuff that you need to get through.

Charlie Reading:

Brilliant, and I remember Bob Babbitt when he tells that brilliant story of his first Ironman saying as he crossed the finish line albeit it was in a car park and there was like one person maybe stood there. He says, you know, I knew, the moment I crossed that finish line albeit it was in a car park and there was like one person maybe stood there. He tells. He says, you know, I knew, the moment I crossed that finish line I was a different person to the one that started that race. Do you think that's still the case? Does it still have that transformative effect, even when it's your fifth, eighth, tenth, twentieth Ironman, you know? Does it still have that same tonic and is the process still powerful?

Julie Moss:

Yes, absolutely I think it is, and it may be moments. It may not be a life transformative outcome, but there's going to be moments and it's those small moments as you get more experienced with racing, ironman distances. Those moments then are built into the fabric of who you are and how you're going to keep living your life. And I don't want to preach to the choir here, but I think you both have had experience. It is transformative moments and they're building blocks of who you want to be, how you want to show up in your life in other areas as an athlete, as a man, as a husband, as a wife, mother, whatever it is. It gives you a little extra tool in your toolbox.

Charlie Reading:

And I also think it's linked to the goals that you set as well, isn't it? For me, Ironman had less of a shine when I started worrying about the time so much and more about the experience or the outcome. I think. To me, that was the goals. The races meant more when the goals were more important than just going faster than I went the time before, which must be really difficult for you when you're right at the top of the sport.

Julie Moss:

Yeah, I think that can get the ego comes along for the ride when you're worrying about how you're going to place on the podium what's your time going to be.

Julie Moss:

You've taken now a race that you did before with certain weather conditions, and now saying the exact same is going to apply this new year, when there's different weather conditions different, it becomes very narcissistic, I think, to sort of think that you can just duplicate this event and that you're going to because you've trained a certain way and your power watts are stronger that you're going to have this different outcome.

Julie Moss:

I think, if you allow yourself to look at this journey, this endurance journey, as something like more, it's just more than that and I get the energy when I get to Kona sometimes, especially when it's an all men's race as opposed to an all women's race that overriding goal energy is just projecting out. It's like I want this time, I want this split, I want this place on the podium and you're in my way on the sidewalk. Could you get out of my way? Because I'm thinking about not always, but there's just a buzz of that. So, yes, I think you're spot on when you say it's a little bit more. That's a quote from the Grinch. It's a little bit more.

Claire Fudge:

Well, you've raced for so many years and been really competitive right from your 20s and raced into your 50s, but I know you had hip surgery along the way, or the latter part. What is there? Are there any particular strategies or like training, innovations or anything to do with mindset that has been really, really powerful in helping you to stay competitive through that, you know, through those, through those years.

Julie Moss:

Yeah, hip surgery was it was just you know part through those years. Yeah, hip surgery was, it was just you know part of the deal. I mean, I didn't really understand how much wear and tear on the body. I think we're just starting to understand that now. We were the guinea pigs of the sport. There's a lot of health issues for the men in the sport who are at the top end, the pointy end, as you like to say, of the sport, with heart situations. We're starting to see some of that come out now.

Julie Moss:

So I'm lucky that it wasn't just a hip situation, a wearing out of the hip, which I did my last Ironman, sort of struggling with that in 2018. And then did the 70.3 worlds in 2019, because my hip could only sustain half Ironman training, not full Ironman training, and then I got my hip replaced in 2020. And so it's been five years and since then I've kind of looked at this as just a fresh start, a reboot. What was I missing as an athlete? I was missing strength training. So I have been a huge advocate for strength training. And then you're in the gym and you're listening to the people who know what they're doing for strength training. And then you're in the gym and you're listening to the people who know what they're doing with strength training and they ask you, how many grounds of protein do you have a day? And you have to think about it and you think, well, I don't know, not that many. Then you start thinking about protein as being a big part of your diet and then you're building muscle mass that you really didn't see as an elite athlete. And then the goal for strength training was something new, like why get strong again? And I want to try something new.

Julie Moss:

So I'm a skier. Now I ski. I had my third season of skiing. I already bought my season pass for next year. I have never felt quad burning like I do in skiing. You could waltz it for five or six hours and then you'd feel like it is at the end of a long day of skiing. You could waltz it for, you know, five or six hours and then you'd feel like it is at the end of a long day of skiing. It's just such a new fun sport for me. I'm not a daredevil by any stretch of the imagination. My rule with skiing is like the same with recycling I'm willing to go as fast as I'm willing to hit the ground. So I will hit the ground at a certain speed on a bike and I'll hit the ground at a certain speed on skiing and I just sort of stay within that range. But it has been exciting to see muscle development. So I did all this work in the gym so I've been pretty much of an advocate for four years now I had.

Julie Moss:

I got in the pool recently and I thought, well, I wonder if all this upper body that I'm doing, I might as well try and use it. I got in the pool recently and I thought, well, I wonder if all this upper body that I'm doing I might as well try and use it. I really haven't been swimming. I got in the pool and it was crazy. I could swim like I really hadn't missed a day. And, yes, we can go back to those early days. Yes, I have established I can be good at things when I don't really train. But to know how long it takes me to get in swim shape and to feel right away that something was clicking and that the endurance was there from muscles not just from those hours and hours of swimming, but just the muscle mass was there to support getting in the pool, was pretty fabulous.

Julie Moss:

I a little seed, a new seed has been planted, that I competed in triathlons in my 20s. I've competed in my 30s, 40s, 50s and I did one race in my 60s. The 50th anniversary of Kona, as you know, is approaching 2028. I will turn 70. So that seed of being on the start line for the 50th anniversary feels like there's a lot of cool circles coming together for me, just my legacy in the sport, the timing of turning 70.

Julie Moss:

And the last piece is that I've never trained with a heart rate monitor. I mean, I've done some running with a heart rate monitor, but I've never done triathlon training with a heart rate monitor, never worn a garment, have never done an Ironman race with a computer on my bike and I have never used power. So I feel like I think it'd be really fun to put a couple of years into getting ready for one. I never say never, but it feels like it could be a real good full circle moment. Triathlon, getting to use all the technology that I sort of wasn't available or I wasn't in the mood for. So that's kind of something new and exciting. That kind of came from this seed of getting stronger from the hip, going to the gym, taking up a new sport and then just sort of letting my body kind of indicate where could this lead.

Charlie Reading:

Oh, that 50th anniversary. We've spoken about it before. So Kurt Madden we had on fairly recently. He was making a beeline for the 50th anniversary. I was chatting to Kathleen when we were out in Kona last year because she's a big TriDot advocate. I use TriDot and so, yeah, there could be quite an amazing array of athletes at the 50th edition, couldn't there? Maybe even Mark, so who knows? Yeah, no.

Julie Moss:

I just, yeah, I know him too well. But that's interesting that you mentioned TriDot, because I was recently the announcer at Wildflower, which is a big revival kind of festival style race that has come back to life. Revival kind of festival style race that has come back to life. And I had a chance to spend a lot of time talking with with Kurt and with Mark, and they were camping near me and Kurt was the one who kind of again it was the next layer of this idea of how to train for an Ironman.

Julie Moss:

I'd like to go to the beginner's mind and say I don't know what I'm doing. Kurt Madden, you can tell me what to do. And mainly, he said that they don't do the big miles like we used to think we had to do. Talk about that. I'll drink that Kool-Aid every day. I mean, what Less miles and you can do it on a stationary, a lot of work on a stationary bike and I think that would be really fun. The TriD, the tri-dot would be, is kind of part of the scenario here. But the other hurdle I have to get through before I can take on this next big dream is I have to get the other hip done and so, yeah, so that looks like it's going to happen early next year. Well, after ski season next year, get through one more ski season. I just had a consult with the orthopedic and I said I'd like to get through one more, one more ski season and then let's get this done, and that gives me two years to rehab and get ready for CONUS.

Charlie Reading:

Well, that sounds like. It sounds like an amazing plan.

Julie Moss:

No, doesn't it sound like I sort of am committing to this? Sounds like it to me.

Charlie Reading:

Sounds like you built a whole plan around it. Sticking with the topic of mark, we've had mark on the podcast a long time. It was actually mark who introduced me to tridor a few years ago and then it kind of my. My journey through tridor has been fantastic, but you must have, I mean, like the stories that mark tells and of his, of his iron man days are are incredible, but you must have heard some memories that really stand out as your perspective of what was going through. Is there one, one memory of Mark's Ironman journey that really stands out for you?

Julie Moss:

Okay, well, I can tell this one, because this is before he ever did his first triathlon. I knew Mark as an acquaintance here in San Diego. He was a state lifeguard and I had friends who were state lifeguards and this was before I actually became a state lifeguard. But Mark was famous for showing up for these lifeguard competitions and doing really well in the running and the swimming. Obviously he was a swimmer, but there was one particular event in San Diego called the Tugs Tavern. It was a run, swim run and Mark, I think, won it. And I just remember thinking this guy is a diamond in the rough. Just, he is a diamond. He just doesn't even know how well he could be at triathlons.

Julie Moss:

And after I did my first triathlon in 1982, I ran into Mark shortly thereafter and he was saying, asking about the triathlon, and at the time a good friend of ours, another state lifeguard, had done the same Ironman that I had done. And we were actually we were, we were dating at the time and so he was intrigued not only that I could get through the Ironman, but that a fellow lifeguard could also have done really well on the Ironman. So I said you're so great at lifeguard competitions, you're going to be a natural at triathlons and so it wasn't really the three of us started training, but he started training with Reed Gregerson, who was another state lifeguard who'd done the Ironman, and they trained that whole summer and then they showed up. We all showed up and stayed in a condo together for our first Ironman in October of 82. That stayed in a condo together for our first Ironman in October of 82.

Julie Moss:

That was, I just remember, though, meeting Mark and knowing Mark actually and thinking he has no idea he's, he's gonna, he's, he's a natural at this, he's going to be really good. And that was the in 19, or, excuse me, in October of 82 is the year Mark got out of the water with Dave Scott. They're riding to Javi together. They turn around and Dave is annoyed. Mark sort of said, hey, dave, and Dave went. Who are you? I'm Mark Allen. And Dave just went and we are done and threw it into a big gear, took off, and Mark thought, okay, I better throw it into a big gear and take off and his derailleur broke. But no, I remember just seeing Mark Allen as this just just say he was a good lifeguard, a good swimmer, like 15 pounds more of upper body and he just he was going to be good at the sport. The fact that I had done the Ironman, I'd seen the athletes over there, I kind of just it was like immediate, it's like you're going to be pretty good.

Charlie Reading:

But it was your moment that inspired him to take up the Ironman, wasn't it it?

Julie Moss:

was. I think that and the fact that he knew people in the race, that also kind of makes it real for you. Hey, wait a minute. And I think that's that moment from Mark then translated for people who saw my moment, who thought could I ever do something like that? So we all, we have our time to inspire and I think there was a piece of that that inspired Mark and when we were together as a couple.

Julie Moss:

You hear it now in tennis, in golf, the athletes refer to their teams. The golfers say we, you know, and tennis players thank their team and I felt really it was just such a privilege to be on Mark Allen's team and I really saw myself as a vital member of that team and I felt really it was just such a privilege to be on Mark Allen's team and I really saw myself as a vital member of that team. All the little things behind the scenes, things that you know do grocery, shopping and making meals and doing the little things that add up to giving you more time to rest, more time to focus, more time to train. That was really. That was really a privilege and I think it took the pressure off me to sort of have to be that athlete all the time, which is why it probably took me seven years to get to the point where I was willing to focus on myself. Mark Allen was launched. I could now focus on myself and see what kind of athlete I could be, Motivated now by seeing excellence day in and day out. But to finally decide to do it for myself was a piece of that puzzle in 89.

Julie Moss:

And so throughout Mark's career it was really, yeah, it was special. It was special to watch him and then to see him, you know, not get his. You know the fourth Grand Slam, you know that was a Kona every year and I so appreciated just, you know just the stories in sport Roy McIlroy, who couldn't get the green jacket, and by winning the masters he's won everything else. But he couldn't do that and he talked about the pressure, year after year after year, of just not getting that race done. 11 years it took him to finally win the masters. That was Mark Allen. It took him seven years to finally win Kona and that was a team effort to get that across the line. I mean, obviously it was all Mark on the day, but it was really an amazing journey to be part of that kind of excellence.

Claire Fudge:

You must have so many other stories as well to share. That would be just amazing to listen to about that journey. You know you as a triathlete and racing professionally. You know triathlon has really been woven into your identity, I guess since your 20s. Looking back, what do you think that endurance sport has given you that maybe sort of nothing else could. How does that still drive you today? So how does endurance sport still drive?

Julie Moss:

you today. I think the message that that resonates the strongest for me from 1982 and crawling across the finish line was that the mind will take you well beyond your body where it wants to go. It's your mind, it's, it's a positive attitude, not just on race day, but kind of think, think day in and day out, that ability to see you know the glass half full, that is so strong that the belief in yourself. I didn't have it in that first race until very late and then it was taken away, with the physical being taken away. So, yeah, I mean you trust that your mind is so much stronger than your body and that in concert with kind of that mental, that physical and that spiritual side, when that comes together you have those races that are, you know, I hate to say, in the zone.

Julie Moss:

I don't know why I don't like that term. She was in the zone, he was in the zone. No, it's bigger than that. It was like you were. The major parts, those pillars of your training have come together in a way that can be sustained. It's not perfect, it doesn't always, it doesn't last, but that's the beauty of endurance is that you hit those valleys and you can get back to. You know, plateaus, peaks are, you know, few and far between, but if you can just keep riding out of those valleys and coming up and keep going, that's when everything is coming together and it's, I guess I love the imperfection of endurance, to kind of give you moments of perfection and the mind will be driving the bus every time.

Charlie Reading:

Brilliant, brilliant. Now, like I said, I'm currently reading the Crawl of Fame, which is also actually not just the best book cover, but it's a great name. I love the Crawl of Fame as a title, so really enjoying it. Would absolutely recommend that other people read that, but we'll ask every guest on the podcast what books have inspired them on their journey or what books do they find themselves recommending to other people regularly. Are there any standout books that have really helped you on your journey?

Julie Moss:

Well, a couple, so I can't limit it to one.

Charlie Reading:

No, you can have as many as you like.

Julie Moss:

Okay, barbarian Days, a Surfing Life and that's by William Finnegan and he won the Pulitzer Prize for autobiography on that, and it's because I'm a surfer. He started surfing in the early days of surfing, so he takes you on this classic old school adventure. And then it's mixed with the mastering of an art form or a sport which I can resonate with, because it took me a long time to master triathlon, even though I loved it from the start.

Charlie Reading:

I'm loving the sound of that and, by the way, so it's taken me a very long term to master the art of surfing, so that sounds like the. Endless Summer book version, so I'm going to check that one out.

Julie Moss:

Okay, so Wild, by Cheryl Strayed. She hiked the Pacific Crest Trail on no training. She showed up not even having ever packed her backpack and literally she's in the motel packing her backpack for the first time to go out and do the Pacific Crest Trail, which for your listeners, it is a trail that extends from Canada to Mexico. It's 2,600 miles. And you will read in my book, crawl of Fame, where I document Matt's, alan, my son. He did the Pacific Crest Trail hike and he completed that in 2016. And that's when I looked at him and said you learned something about grit, my boy. It's time you thought about Ironman again. And so he then competed in Ironman and qualified for Kona, but that was based on the grit that he got from hiking for four months on the Pacific Crest Trail.

Julie Moss:

And the last one is a cautionary tale, but it's by the gentleman who wrote the foreword to my book. His name is Armin Kattan, and Armin and Jeff Benedict wrote the Tiger Woods. It's Tiger Woods, and talk about getting into the head of somebody who was the absolute best of his sport. And getting into his head and getting to see all the dark you know kind of the things that on the outside it looked like perfect golf perfection, but inside of the way he was raised and the pressures and the parental stuff, it's just really great sports reading.

Charlie Reading:

Brilliant. Those are three fantastic recommendations, thank you, and none of them are on my reading list currently, but they'll all be going onto the reading list. Really great sports reading brilliant. Those are three fantastic recommendations, thank you, and none of them are on my reading list currently, but they'll all be going on to the reading list. The tiger woods one in particular, I think so. I've just recent they were. They recently released a documentary like a three series or docu-series I think, on possibly netflix, about tiger and that is brilliant. It's, it's fascinating and like, by the sounds of things, like that book goes into the sort of dark places that he has been to. So, yeah, brilliant, I'm going to check those out. And then we have a closing tradition on the podcast where we get the last guest to ask the next guest a question without knowing who that guest is going to be, and the last guest was Chris Brindley and I think Claire has got Chris's question lined up.

Claire Fudge:

Okay, so what is the major lesson that you've learned from your first day to?

Julie Moss:

today, major lesson that I have learned is say yes more than you say no to everything.

Charlie Reading:

Why is that the major lesson?

Julie Moss:

Because I think we stop ourselves, we analyze well, can you do in Ironman? Oh well, I'm not a very good swimmer, and so you go through it. And instead of just jumping in saying yes, I okay, what does it take? I think in just in big ways and little ways. If your motto is to say yes more than you say no, I think life is going to take you on some pretty interesting journeys, amazing.

Charlie Reading:

Brilliant. And I have one final question that I'm sitting here thinking I've got to ask you. With, with kona with the arm, world championships, the girls and the boys splitting out racing neeson and kona separately, it feels like you are the person that we should ask to say is it now a better thing that they've brought them back together? Yes, the women don't get their own day, but we have the guys and the girls racing on the same day. What are your thoughts on where Kona has been with Nice alongside and now how, with the announcements of them combining it back together again?

Julie Moss:

Unquestionably the best thing for the sport to bring everybody back to Kona.

Charlie Reading:

Brilliant, I agree. I think Claire raced the year that they had both in Kona but on separate days, and that was good but challenging for Kona, I think. So, yeah, I think that's brilliant. Julie, it's been absolutely fantastic chatting to you, loved hearing the stories and the emotions behind that footage that we all know so well. If there is any listener here that hasn't watched this footage or hasn't considered reading A Crawl of Fame, then you should definitely do both. But, julie, it's been absolutely brilliant. Thank you for everything you've done for the sport and for taking the time today to tell us about it and tell us about that journey, because it's been absolutely brilliant, thank you.

Julie Moss:

Thank you, it's been really fun.

Charlie Reading:

So what did you make of that interview with the legend that is Julie Moss?

Claire Fudge:

I was about to say another legend, another like starting out in Ironman. You know, Julie is one of the names that you think of, that you go to and to be able to speak to her and listen to the stories are just yeah, it's just amazing. One of the things and she said this early on, actually one of the things she said really early on is that you know, she wasn't used to winning, she wasn't there to win, and then she suddenly realizes that, oh, my God, I can actually do this. And that was the point that actually changed her whole mindset. And interesting, what did you think? Because she talked about like my God, I am actually worthy of taking this place being, you know, winning. That was really interesting to me, that that she talked about being worthy. What were your thoughts about that?

Charlie Reading:

I agree, I thought it was really interesting and I also thought it's kind of almost it's all like it's brilliant that she had that thought, but it's also possibly the moment that the that she, that it cost her the ironman, because I think when you read the book she, she decides she's worried that kathleen's catching her and she decides to pick the pace up and and, as a result, like she said, she could have pretty much run, walked that last six miles, or eight mile miles, as it was, and not given up the lead that she had. But equally, it was that mindset that changed, drove her to push that hard, which then had her body fail her and created what is probably the most iconic moment in endurance sport.

Claire Fudge:

I suspect the most iconic moment in endurance sport, I suspect I think to listen to a story around the drive to win, but actually was it mile what she said? Mile 18, was it?

Charlie Reading:

Mile 18.

Claire Fudge:

Mile 18. I mean, if you speak to a triathlete now, they're not suddenly thinking about the drive to win at mile 18. I'm just going to do it for my projects, my theses, it's just you know my thesis just like let me go and you know, have a go. I really love her mindset of you know just, and she's you know she said actually at the end just say yes to stuff and it sounds like that's what she's done throughout her career is actually just you know, going out there and getting it and you know just just trying it. So it was just fantastic to hear kind of you know how that world of Iron man was.

Charlie Reading:

Those you know, right in the early days and and we didn't get the story but she she had I think that kind of one of the defining moments was she had a Snickers bar, which was going to be her nutrition, and it melted and it sort of sort of like was all over her face and she decided and she'd got the camera crew riding alongside and she's like this is not a good look. So she didn't have the snickers but I mean, like you think about how much you know the athletes today getting through a snickers bar an hour in terms of calories if not, well, double I don't know how I'm saying that, not knowing how many calories are in a snickers bar, but guessing it's quite they've got, they've got smaller, haven't they?

Charlie Reading:

so you know well, yeah, yeah, um yeah, and yet she's looking at that as her nutrition for the whole bike leg. I mean it's yeah, it's insane, isn't it?

Charlie Reading:

yeah and those marathon times with zero training, zero prep, zero strategy again just like incredible. I mean, it's just, yeah, it's, it's an amazing, amazing story. I thought it was brilliant how she talked about how kind of just you know that drive to get there, and but yeah, it's just, yeah, just a brilliant story and incredible. And what else did you take from the interview other than kind of how amazing that start was?

Claire Fudge:

Actually, I mean, you know she talked about the power of her mind. You know a lot and I know that's what a theme isn't it that comes across in most endurance triathletes or endurance athletes. You know this, this kind of willingness to push beyond what they think is possible. I mean, certainly on two weeks of training, I mean I think that's pretty, you know pretty good, to kind of push beyond what's possible, much beyond what's possible.

Claire Fudge:

But when she talked about, you know, racing and you know racing into her 50s and actually finding other sports along the way, when she had a hip operation, actually embracing other things and you know I've heard her speak on a couple of other podcasts about you know actually that it's really good to and she didn't mention this actually but it's really good to find other things that interest you. And then when you come back to the sport you love and she's talking about now, you know, isn't she coming back in her 70s to race at the anniversary? I just think that is amazing and that is, you know, all credit to this mindset of like, well, I can do it, I will do it, you know, saying, saying yes. So I think there is something to the power of during injury or coming back from a rehab period, finding something else that you also get that kick out of or love or enjoy.

Charlie Reading:

I think that's really important and I also think that ties in with her coming back to Ironman to help her deal with her divorce, you know, and even though even though she'd done many Ironmans beforehand, it was still a part of her recovery process that had her dealing with that divorce better. I think that's interesting. So it's kind of where I ended up coming to the conclusion of this year, having done Kona last year and qualifying for Kona, and kind of ticking off that big, big goal. It's like well, what next? Is it just another Ironman, and if I'm not that bothered about qualifying for Kona or Nice this year, what's what? What is the goal? Why am I doing? And I couldn't get motivated. So I ended up stepping away from Ironman and came up with this ridiculous my longest triathlon principle, so the longest perceivable swim, bike and run that I could find. So obviously cycling Land's End to John O'Groats was the longest ride I could think up, which I've done, and it was amazing.

Claire Fudge:

Why did you not do it twice, there and back? You know?

Charlie Reading:

In theory, yes, like there's a lady that's just done it, whose name is currently Sarah Ruggins, has just done it there and back in less than six days, which is unbelievable.

Charlie Reading:

But anyway, yes, in theory.

Charlie Reading:

So now I could think about that, but at the time it was like and then I'm swimming Lake Windermere, 11 miles, and then the Arch of Attrition, 100 mile around the Cornish coastline.

Charlie Reading:

It's much more exciting and I've got different reasons to do it and it's challenging me in different ways than just doing another Ironman. I have no doubt that I'll want to go back to to racing another Ironman next year, but it's about finding those reasons and the goals why you're doing it, as opposed to just doing it to try and get a better time, which was becoming less and less motivating for me. But I think I think I just fascinated me that even after all those races, going back to using Ironman to help her through a divorce was incredibly powerful. So, yeah, an amazing interview with an amazing lady that created an incredible moment in the sport that we love and, like I said for listeners out there, if you've never watched that footage, or even if you have, but not for a long time, it's worth going back and watching. It's just incredible footage of somebody at their absolutely lowest, trying to make it to finish the race. So another amazing interview and for everyone that's listening at home, keep on training.