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Business of Endurance
Previously called Tribeathlon, The Business of Endurance is a podcast aimed at connecting endurance sport with personal and business advancement.
Hosted by Charlie Reading and Claire Fudge, the show provides a comprehensive approach to success, drawing inspiration from athletes, coaches, and motivational figures in the endurance sport domain.
With a diverse range of subjects being covered – from fitness strategies to business advice and life lessons – the discussions are designed to inspire not only athletes or entrepreneurs, but anyone pursuing growth in their personal or professional life. 40-minutes every Wednesday is all that's required to gain insights into how the tenets of endurance sport can shepherd success in business and personal development.
Business of Endurance
Breaking “Unbreakable”: Sean Conway on the Grand Slam of Endurance
Today’s guest is one of the most extraordinary endurance adventurers alive: Sean Conway.
If you’ve ever questioned what the limits of human endurance might be, Sean has probably already gone there. From swimming the length of Britain, to cycling across Europe, to setting the record for the longest ever triathlon, he’s built a career on redefining what’s possible.
Most recently, he completed Iron105 - an unimaginable feat of 105 consecutive Ironman triathlons. But this conversation isn’t just about mind-blowing records.
Sean’s philosophy of “first, furthest, fastest, foremost” is a blueprint for how we can all approach life and business. His story of growing up in Africa, of struggling to find belonging, and of turning suffering into meaning, will challenge you to think differently about resilience, purpose, and success.
If you’re looking for inspiration to push past your limits - in sport, in business, or in life - this episode will give it to you.
Highlights:
- The Ball to Chase: Whether it’s 105 Ironmans or a creative project, life’s spark lives in the chase.
- No Plan B: Because if there’s a backup, you’ll take it. Commitment is clarity. The finish line doesn’t move.
- Flip a Coin, Keep Your Soul: After breaking the record, he let fate decide each extra day. Heads - go again. Tails - stop. Day 105 said “enough.”
- Monkey & Terrier: Creativity meets obsession - the writer dreams, the terrier chases. Feed both or lose your spark.
- Community as Fuel: The snowball effect - momentum attracts tribe. Surround yourself with people who lift you higher.
- Long-Game Goal Setting: Plan a decade ahead. The goal in his diary - row the Atlantic with his family in 2035.
- Dear Grandkids: Writing now for the next generation - a book of wild childhoods, near-lions, and lessons for life.
- Entrepreneurial Spirit Returns: From secret school tuck shops to adventure series - hustle never left, it just evolved.
- Micro-Manage the Margins: You don’t find one 100% gain - you find a hundred 1% ones.
Links:
Connect with Sean on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanconwayadventure/
Connect with Sean on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MrSeanConway
Connect with Sean on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sean-conway-2486b563/
Connect with Sean on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SeanConwayEndurance
Sean's Website: https://www.seanconway.com/
This episode was sponsored by The Trusted Team and 4th Discipline
And I think it's important that we all find a ball to chase in life. Whatever it is. I think we all have a sort of interior in us. People who feel a bit lost and when they get out of bed, you know, the sparks gone. Find a ball to chase. It doesn't matter what it is, just find something difficult to chase and then just chase it.
Charlie Reading:If you're looking for inspiration to push past your limits in sport business andor life, this episode will give it to you. Now, Sean was actually my guest number two on the podcast, so you may want to go back and listen to that episode as well. But for now, let's dive into this brilliant conversation with the amazing Sean Conway. General, when we look at the back end of this podcast, then we see something really interesting. We see that 57% of the people that regularly listen to it haven't hit the subscribe button. So could I ask you a quick favor before we dive into today's episode? If you're enjoying Claire and I bringing you amazing guests, not asking you for patronage fees and not jamming the podcast full of adverts, then the best way you can help us continue to do that and to make it even better is to hit that subscribe button. And here's my promise to you when you subscribe, we'll make it our mission, along with the team that supports us, to continue to improve this podcast every week. So thank you so much for your support and for being a part of the business of endurance community. Let's dive in. So, Sean, welcome back to the Business of Endurance podcast. Officially, it's your first time on the Business of Endurance Podcast, because of course it was called the Tribathlon Podcast when you were guest number, I think you were guest number two. So you are the f officially the first guest that is being invited back for a second visit. Um, so this is one more of your first achievements that you can add to your long list of firsts. But I'm really looking forward to chatting to you, particularly after cycling from Land Zent John at Groats with you. I know we hear we chatted a lot there and looking forward to sort of diving into some new stuff. And of course, since we did that interview, you went off and did a small sort of mini, mini endurance trip that was known as Iron 105 or Iron 105, so 105 Ironlands in 105 days is actually just like completely, you just can't contemplate it. So I'd like to start there because obviously we didn't talk about that in the in the last episode. So, where did the concept of iron 105 come about? And can you try and explain to people how tough a challenge that was? Because I know when we spoke on our bike ride, it almost was too much for people to comprehend. So, how do you explain that Wine 105 and how was it born? Yeah.
Sean Conway:Well, I go into how it was born. In the world of endurance and the world of breaking records and that sort of thing, there's a thing called the endurance grand slab. So there's four types of world records you can get. You can become you can get a world's first, be the first to do something, a world's furthest or or longest, a world's fastest, and then the last one is the world's most of. So you can do the most marathons in a year or whatever. I had three of them. I had a world's first, I was the first to swim the length of Britain back in 2013. I had the world's longest continuous triathlon record. I did a 4,200-mile continuous triathlon, and then I was the fastest record, I was the fastest person to cycle across Europe. So from the edge of Portugal to the Ural Mountains in Russia, 4,000 miles. So the the the the last one I had was the most of. And then because you know I've done swim bike run and I love triathlon, I'm still the only person in history to have done a Lands Enter John of Groats swim bike run. For me, it just seemed obvious. It just seemed obvious that I was going to go for the what was considered really by the internet and by everyone, an unbreakable record of the most number of Ironmans in a row. So that that's sort of how it came about, really. Just me wanting to get the Grand Slam, which A, no one else in the world ever has, and B was to, you know, get that record that sort of everyone, including the previous world record holder, said, you know, is impossible. And he was going to take it to the grave. And, you know, nothing against him personally, but when I heard that, I was like, no, you won't. You know, it's just a bit of bit of I mean, sport is meant to be competitive, right? And I think you will push each other higher and higher and higher. Um and that sort of really what hooked me in, you know, once I decided, and once in my heart and head committed, you know, I'm a monkey terrier, I talk about a lot. I have these two personalities, and they both need feeding. And the monkey's creative and you know, writes books, and I've got, you know, a whole bunch here written eight books, which I keep on my desk here next to me. That's and I like to try lots of different things. So that's the the the monkey, but the terrier just needs to chase things. And if I if I'm if I don't feed the terrier, usually every couple of years, and the terrier really just gets agitated. Um, and then once I thought of trying to break the most of my man's record, that's the ball being thrown for the terrier. Once that happens, to me, it's easier for me to chase the ball than not chase the ball. Which if anyone's got a terrier or any dog that chases a ball, if you if you throw the ball and hold it, hold it, hold the collar of the dog, right? The terrier I used to have, it goes mad, doesn't it? It's just like the ball. And that's that's kind of what it is like for me as well. When someone throws that ball, when I have that idea and and it's really now, you know, you can have it in the bit percolating in the deck, but once it gets thrown, then I I just have to go for it. I just have to. And I think it's important that we all find uh a ball to chase in life, whatever it is. I think we I think we all have a sort of a terrier in us. Yeah, you don't have to go to the extremes I've put myself through, but I think it's important. I think people who feel a bit lost and are, you know, just a bit grumpy, or when they get out of bed, they're just you know, the spark's gone. Find a ball to chase. It doesn't matter what it is, just find something difficult to chase and then just chase it. And then that that sort of set me on that path. And then your second question is sort of the enormity of it. That it's only in sort of prospectively looking back at it and looking at how people responded to it while I was doing it that I've sort of realized over the last two years now that it it just was just too big and too difficult. And and people just sort of really didn't understand it. You know, doing one Iron Man is incredibly difficult. Even now, I'm not gonna diminish that, even though even though I've done the the 105, even doing one is still very hard. You know, doing two is hard, doing three is hard. You know, 10 years ago, no one had done more than sort of 30 in a year. So it just becomes it's it's a sort of a difference between millions and billions. You sort of just see them both as big numbers, but actually a billion, it's a lot, a lot, a lot more thousand times more than a million, of course. Yeah, it's it's I have I've noticed that it's been very difficult to explain it to people. Even people who to know triathlon and and that sort of thing are 105. They will have what really what and and it just it's like it's just uncomprehendable. And that's part of my sort of role or responsibility now is to share that story and tell that story in a way that will hopefully inspire next generation without making them just go like, oh, that's just way too difficult. I don't want to talk to you because you're obviously an outlier. Because that is the worry, you know, suddenly I've put myself outside of what people think they can achieve, and then they just put me as an outlier. Oh, Sean's an outlier, whatever, you did it, I can't do it. So that's sort of part of my journey now is to show people with science and facts and figures and storytelling that actually I am just a normal guy because I've been tested for. But I I've applied XYZ, I've applied the 10.5 pillars of endurance, and everyone has their own 10.5, um, and that allowed me to break that. And when you break it down, then you can achieve it, you know. So that's sort of been been the journey over the last couple of years since we taught last, really, is is A, breaking that record, and then B realizing that everyone thinks it was bulkers and impossible and didn't understand it, so it kind of just turned off basically. And I'm trying to go, well, actually, if you do what I say and listen to all my lessons, you'll actually, it does make sense, you know.
Charlie Reading:It is an unbelievable achievement. I mean, I I I mean by the way, I loved reading Iron 105, your book. I think that is, it's just like A, it had me chuckling along while I was I was listening to it while typically while I was running, so I was laughing away to uh to quite a few different bits in it. But it's just the enormity of it is absolutely I mean, you know, Claire and I have done multiple Iron Man's Claire a lot more than I have, but the idea of doing two in two days seems ludicrous. So to go 105 days is like it's absolutely insane. Um, I can't think of a better way of of describing it, but there must have been some incredibly dark moments during it. Well, describe what those dark moments were and what were the greatest lessons from completing Iron 105?
Sean Conway:Yeah, there was a couple of really, really dark moments. One is just quite early on, actually. Well, any in the in the overall campaign, my big dark moment was actually I failed the first attempt, only got to day seven, I'm embarrassing, right? And that's when the whole internet said, Oh, I told you this record was impossible, you've never done an Iron Man, which is true, still haven't, you know. You and you're to day seven, you'll never do this. You know, you're too slow, your power's rubbish, your FTP's rubbish, your marathon pace is rubbish. And they were sort of right. I I really probably needed to work on my pace a little bit. Uh and that's what I did. So I came back. So that that was difficult. So failing that first one really was dark because you know, I'm 44 years old now, or 40 one back then, 42. I've got all the the injury niggling, you know, demons on my shoulder going, well, you know, because you don't bounce back biologically as you get older, you're a bit more robust. And I feel like I can push that edge more with with experience. But really, that was dark. And then on the second attempt, you know, nearly timing out in the first on day two and three because of an injury so early on again. Yeah, I missed the cut, the 17-hour cutoff. I nearly missed it by five minutes. I did 16 hours, 55 minutes on day I think two or three. So that was, you know, that was a dark moment thinking, geez, you know, maybe I just don't have it in me, you know. And it took a lot of willpower, it took a lot of sort of practical thinking, not trying to let my emotions get in the way, but go back to like, right, what can I control? What can't I control? Because there's also this tendency that we all want big improvements in our performance. Because we see people on the internet and they're like, oh wow, he's so good, and you put yourself up against them. And that, you know, you don't know their history, how much training they're doing, and that sort of thing. So I remember when I did 16 hours 55, you know, the tendency for day one I did like 14 hours or 15 hours. I was like, oh, I'm two hours slower. Tomorrow I want to be two hours quicker. And I had to rein myself back and say, no, no, no, that's just like just be five minutes quicker. And I was, I was seven minutes quicker. So I was like, oh, I did two minutes better than I thought I was gonna do. And then that's what I started to do. I just changed my perception and my, my sort of my view on my performance, said, right, well, tomorrow I'm gonna be five minutes, five minutes. And I just chipped away at the block until I got quick enough that I was, I I sort of then leveled out on a pretty even sort of 15 hours, 14 hours, 13 and a half hours type thing. And then that became sustainable. You know, when you can do 40 or 15 hours, you're getting nine, 10 hours recovery, and you're definitely getting eight hours sleep in that. And then it becomes sustainable if you can do that with a low heart rate. So those are the things I started to focus on. I started to focus on the 10.5 pillars of endurance. You know, I've got them written down. Yeah, I stare at them every day in my office. And I'll quickly go through them. There's planning, equipment, experience, fitness and conditioning, and nutrition and hydration, recovery, muscle management, health, mindset, community, and the 0.5 is luck. Sometimes you just need a bit of luck, right? And bad luck can can derail you as well. So that was it. You know, that's how I got out these real difficult moments by practically thinking about right, why am I down? What is going wrong? What is going right? What can I improve on? What can I get those little marginal gains? And then they slowly build up because what are and it's quite human behavior. A lot of people, you know, and this is quite well documented, really overestimate what they can achieve in like a day or a week, massively underestimate what they can achieve in one year, five years, ten years, right? And that's what I started to think. I sort of started thinking, right, well, I'm on day five, day six, it's going pretty bad. Let's have a goal by day 30 to be in this position. And then it just changes your framework. You know, you're not dividing each day up into all these like managed little things, you you you're just averaging out your day. And then that really works for me, you know. And that works in in business and life as well now. You know, when I when I write a book, I'm not like I need to do 500 words a day. I say, right, well, I I need to do 10,000 words this month, and that's kind of what I look at it. And then some days I do more, some days I do less. And people who lose weight, it's quite common. People who lose weight shouldn't do a daily calorie count if you're trying to lose weight, if and if if a calorie deficit is the way you're choosing to do it, you should have a weekly count. Because inevitably, if you have a daily count and you go over it, you go, Oh, failed, I'm gonna give up. But if you have a weekly one, you're gonna achieve it. So it's all those little steps, which sort of gets me out. And people do ask me, so Sean, you know, what's your superpower? Why can you do this? Hey, I don't have one. I've been tested, you know, mentally, physically, all my markers, Joe Blogs. However, if I did have one, is I'm very good at micromanaging my performance and working out what can work and what doesn't work. And I do that regularly throughout every Iron Man. I'm you know, I'm looking at my stats. I know it was three laps on the bike. If I was five minutes down on one day, I'm like, right, why am I down? Oh, actually, I don't feel so bad. The reason I'm down is because there was that train crossing that I had to cross six times and I lost five minutes at the train crossing. So, okay, let's not stress. So, yeah, if that was my superpower, that's probably what it would be. And that's what got me out the dark times, really.
Charlie Reading:And I think what I love about that is, uh, and I can't remember who I heard say this, but it's easier to find 101% gains than one 100% gain. And you're just constantly looking for so today we can improve a little bit by this, tomorrow we can improve a little bit like this. And that I think is really powerful. What fascinated me was when you decided to end, you'd say originally it was a 102, you needed to go to 102 Ironmans, and then you had this amazing way of deciding how to whether you carried on or finished. So describe that to people, how you did that, and what did you learn from the way you did that?
Sean Conway:So I well, let's reverse it. Past part of my, and I hate the word manifesting, but you sort of know what I mean, right? When I go into it, I go in with this utter 100% self-belief that it's a dummy. I'm no plan B. I'm not very good with a plan B because I find for me, if you have a plan B, you might take it. Like, for example, I got off asked that, you know, by someone I'm very close to, really good friend of mine for many years. Uh, they said, Oh, Sean, you know, if the full Ironmans aren't going so well and you time out, will you maybe move to the half Iron Man record and just carry on doing the half? And I was like, no, absolutely not. Now, had I that as an option in my head, I may have taken it on day two or three when I was broken and I was nearly timing out. So, yes, I'm a big fan of sort of no plan B for me. You have one, you can you can move plan A and you can change things so that, but you still have the end goal. I that's there's still one finish line. You're not moving your finish line. Part of that process is actually I printed numbers up to 123. I was like, right, I'll put this is such a done deal. I'm gonna smash a record, go up to one, two, three. Why one, two, three? Because it seemed like the next cool number. And it cost me a pattern, it was 10 quid a number to pay for. So I spent like 300 quid I didn't need to just to you know get all these caps and numbers right. So when I got to sort of day 95-ish, I remember thinking, I just I reckon I could carry on. And I went to Caroline, my lovely wife, and I said, Look, I reckon, I reckon I can do some more. And the look on her face, she was very supportive though. She's like, she's just was like, Sean, like you're never doing this again. No regrets. Like, just do what you need to do. But also remember, you're a dad. I've got two young boys who weren't at school. Caroline is self-employed and was still working. So like she actually had the harder deal. 100%, you know. Hats off to single mums out there. It was hard for her, right? So there was sort of really no real other than ego going much further than that, other than me just going, I feel I got more in the tank. But I didn't want to give up because I knew I'd regret it. So I thought, right, well, I always I always knew I was gonna do day 103. So day 102, I brought the record. Day 103, I always was in in the books because I wanted to know what it felt like to do an Iron Man that I didn't have to do. Up to 102, I had to do it. If I didn't do it, record's off. Day 103 was like, whatever, you got the record, maybe. And I wanted to know whether my body would totally crumble and just be like, oh, you're broken, like it's over. Or would I thrive because the pressure is off, which is a really interesting experiment for me. So I was super excited about day three, did day three, and I thrived. I loved it. It didn't matter if I crashed out on the bike, I could push it a little bit harder, didn't have to worry about injury, because I had the record, right? And then from then on, I made an agreement with Caroline that I'd flip a coin. I said, look, I'll flip a coin and I'll choose heads every time. I said, heads I carry on, tails I quit. The coin said do day 104, the coin said do day 105, and then when I flipped for day 106, the coin said stop. And that was it. And now for me, it mentally you can say, well, actually, I didn't quit the bloody coin. Tommy'd stops. It's it's been a good way for me to navigate the how far I could have gone, because actually that was it. That was the agreement I had with Caroline, and I needed to be a husband and a dad again. And I'm proud of that now. I'm proud. I'm not sitting here going, Oh yeah, I definitely could have gone to 150 or 200, you know. So yeah, that's that's how that one ended.
Claire Fudge:I I love the idea of flipping the coin because I can hear with like the way that you talk and the adventures you've done, that that could have just continued and continued and continued. You talked about no plan B and you touched on it a little bit, but but what do you mean by no plan B? So, you know, surely there's got to be options. I mean, you're out there for days, hours, months, like doing things. So, how do you have let's say options? I don't know what what do you call them?
Sean Conway:So when I go into something, the no plan B is the ultimate goal. So for the Iron 105, it was getting to what, A, getting to day 102. If you take injury out of it, because you know, you could I could have got run over by a car, and then that obviously that ends it. And previously on the previous record, I got injured when I crashed out on the bike. So if you take that out of the question, and now you're just dealing with pain, suffering, misery, depression, deprivation, all that sort of thing, right? There's still just no plan B in I will get to 102. There's no me changing it to half Iron Man record or me trying to get so other options I could have quite easily hung my hat on would have been A, stopping at the British record of 21. Oh, brilliant British record, stopping at the European record, which was 61, I think, or 62. Um, or moving to the half Iron Man record halfway through if I got injured and couldn't just do it, moving to the half iron. I don't even know what the half iron record, I think it's less than than 105 anyway. So those could have been other options for me. And for me, that just it doesn't work for me. And and I'm not very good at even celebrating the minor wins, but that I know doesn't work for some people, and I think some people need to celebrate the minor wins. So, like as a crew, I've let them celebrate when I got the British record, the European record, and a few other things. So, yeah, those that's what I mean, you know, and my other record, swimming the length of Britain, like finishing it, it's all I needed to do, no matter if it took me, you know, two months, three months, four months, five months, six months, eight months getting into John of Groats from starting at Land's End was the no plan B, you know. Because plan B could have been, you know, by the time because that I was a bit slow, I was still swimming in November. You know, I could have got to October and gone, oh well, I'm gonna GPS pinpoint, but this weather's a bit rubbish, I'll go home and I'll come back next year and finish the final leg in the summer. Um, but no, that was just my option. I was just gonna deal with Scottish winter and swim in around Cape Wrath with 30, 40, 50 foot waves. And that was it. No plan B on there. So that's how I go into it. And it's very important for me to have a clear finish line with no other options along the way for each individual record. And that just makes me more focused. It makes me more focused, you know. Because sometimes you will, you know, you get these ultra races where you you know you might have a hundred and sixty K, a hundred K, and a 50K. You know, the worst thing you can do is go, oh well, I've I'll sign up for the 160, but actually I might pull out at the 100. Oh yeah. Just just no. Because you will, I promise you, you'll pull out at the 100 if if you gave yourself that thing, that option. And then sometimes you you you you know, some people might thrive on putting things in place to not allow you to pull out at the hundred, or you know, I don't know, just take your favourite watch and leave it at at the end at 160. So you have to get to the end, otherwise you someone's gonna pick your watch. I don't know. You know, there's things, there's lots of stuff you could do to to motivate yourself. And what you know, I call them a part of one of the 10.5 pillars is mindset. And what under that that some pillar of that is what I call dangling carrots. You know, you've got to dangle as many carrots in front of you to help you motivate you. Some people say you should have a bucket of motivation and you put as many things in there. So when you're tired, you pull the thing out. I I had the carrot analogy, you know, look at when you're really struggling, you're like, oh, there's still that carrot, and that could be raising money for charity, having a cool pub story for your mates. For me, it's when my lad, my two boys do their first Iron Man and moan how miserable it was. I'll be like, you don't know pain, boys. You know, that was a carrot. So yeah, that it's that's sort of how I manifest again. I hate that word. But you know, you sort of know what I mean, that self-belief and and and implementing a process and a strategy that everyone buys into then, because it's very clear. It's one of 102 or nothing, guys, like everything and everything's fits towards that. So all my teammates, my crew, everyone in my little snowball, I call it, is working towards that all or nothing goal, really.
Claire Fudge:It sounds like no isn't an option for you either. That the Gordon's throne, and that's where you're that's where you're going. I guess that's that terrier that you described right at the very beginning.
Sean Conway:Yeah, that's that's that is true. No is not an option. Some it depends. I can also say yes to everything sometimes, and that also comes hardship.
Claire Fudge:I also wanted to just actually go back to something you said right at the very beginning. Around this, you talked about the Grand Slam, the endurance grand slam, and you mentioned about the first, the longest, the fastest, and the most of. You've described this before as your philosophy, I guess, in terms of being first, furthest, fastest, foremost. Can you explain that philosophy a little bit and how you've applied it, but not just to sport, perhaps, we know perhaps in life and in business as well?
Sean Conway:Yeah. So when I first discovered the terrier in me, or first acknowledged that the terrier, I knew there was always in my twenties, I knew that there was a side of me, but I didn't really know how to feed it. I I was always chasing something that not quite hard enough, or not part of a bigger picture, or or just one-off little things. And that sort of also didn't really satisfy me. So the grand slam was sort of just having a really, really long-term goal. And I I think that's important as well. And and that goes back to our spectrum spoke about earlier, where everyone really underestimates what they can achieve in 10 years. And and sort of my 10-year goal was this was this grand slam, which really, if I'm honest, at the beginning I was like, it's never gonna happen, mate. Like I'm a school portrait photographer, whatever, I'm I'm gonna just go for it. Because I had no business in the world of endurance. Had not I was a school portrait photographer until I was 30 years old, didn't own a pair of running shoes. I I knew nothing about sport, right? Never run a marathon. I think I ran my first marathon when I was 30, 20, 30, 39, I think I was. I don't know, 36. I don't know. I was pretty old. So yeah, so the this grand slam was also having this really long-term goal to chase. And that that excited me. That excites me. And it excites me now having just stuff that's really long-term, you know, which I never outside of the Grand Slam, I hadn't really thought. I I really thought it'd take me longer than 10 years or so, totally. And now that it's happened, you know, there was a little obviously I'm only human, so there was a little bit of me that was like, oh now what we know, what I'm gonna do now on drip I've achieved more than I ever thought I'd ever achieve physically. But you know, I find other mountains to climb which are equally difficult to me. Are they as difficult as 105 Ironmans to the general public? Probably not. Are they as difficult to me? Yeah, probably. And those are in the pipeline at the moment. So uh and they're also part of just a much, much bigger picture. And the bigger picture for me is is at some point, I'm 44 now. Biology, you can't change biology. I'm gonna get slower and be more injured as I get older. Hopefully not. I'm feeling pretty strong right now, but you know, life will change and and I'll have these long-term goals, which I think is important. I think everyone should have 10-year goals, you know, like you know, if you want it. A good example is you know, if you if you're you know wanting to do couch to 5k and like that's a big goal for you, why don't in 10 years' time sign up for 100 mile reps or 100k reps? You know, why you do that? I've put in my diary for twenty for just for November 2035, I'm gonna be rowing the Atlantic with my whole family, me, my wife, and our two boys. It's in the diary. November 2035. That's when we're doing it. The boys will be old enough to actually be able to do some rowing, they'll be teenagers by then, late teens, and that's cool, right? I've got something super looking forward to, which now makes me go, like, right, I'm gonna need to step it up. Right, I need to save for this boat for one, it's very expensive. So that's in the pipeline. Like, we're just um now, like I'm not doing it every day, of course, but you know, every few months am I right? What am I doing towards this long-term plan of rowing the Atlantic with my family in 10 years' time? And I I yeah, I love it. You know, I think we should all do that. Super important, super important to long-term goals.
Claire Fudge:It sounds amazing. And I love the I'm sure Charlie's already got stuff in his diary for 2035 probably or something. So, how can like you touched on it a little bit there, but how can listeners today like apply some of these principles to their goals and their life? So you talked about kind of planning way in advance of something that's huge. What are the kind of how what else can they apply from from those principles?
Sean Conway:So I think once you've got the long-term goal, don't be in a rush to it to have these big advances in performance. You've got to set a good foundation early on. A, you suffer burnout, b, you suffer injury, b, you just suffer lack of motivation, or you give up, or yeah, it just gets overwhelming, whatever. So set a good foundation, have that long-term goal, and then just keep chipping away at it, and you'll achieve all the little milestones along the way, still have that really scary long, long-term goal. And practically just write it down. I'm quite visual, you know. I like to write this. My whole office here is a blackboard. So I painted blackboard stuff everywhere. So I write on the roof and on the walls and everything, whatever. I'm quite visual, you know. I respond very well to visual stimulation rather than audible, for example. So that's what I would have, you know. I'd I'd put stuff in the diary, you know, and and not all of it will happen. You know, not all of it will happen. You know, but I have some really crazy, far-fetched ideas that I just put out there and they're in my little book of ideas. You know, they're exciting now, but am I ready for them? Do I want them enough? Maybe, maybe not. They might come around in a couple of years' time when I'm ready for it, or you know, the family dynamics means I'm able to do it and that sort of thing. But, you know, just find stuff to get excited about that way in the future. So it's super important. Whatever it is, it can be physical, it can be hobbies, it can be learning a language, or as I said, you know, think about you know, potentially where you want to be with something X, Y, Z in 10 years' sign. And you'll just you'll just treat the whole process differently. And you won't, you won't sort of there's this sort of motivation and skill graph. So you, you know, when you start off something, your skill's low and your motivation's high. And as you get better, your skill will go up. You'll weirdly, and it's human nature, your motivation for it does dip after a while. You're super motivated at the beginning, you're sort of a starter, you maybe might lose a little bit of motivation. Where those cross, you'll often find is where people sometimes give up because now they're less motivated than they are skilled. So they're super, they've got more skill, but maybe don't feel like they should be where they want to be. Just stick at it because what you'll find is you'll unlock the next door and then your your motivation starts coming up again. It's sort of like a reverse bell curve. And and that's what I'm like, and not everyone's like that, you know. I mean, Charlie talks about, you know, are you a starter or a finisher or an all or whatever? You know, so I'm definitely all of it because I can stick at all of it. I'm a very good starter at something, pretty good at the middle making it happen, and then I'm pretty good at executing at the end. But not everyone is. Sometimes people love the start, but. And then lose enthusiasm, but stick at it. And then it it's sort of the enthusiasm comes back again, I find in that curve as you suddenly get better. You know, and this is with fitness a good example. When you first start running, you're super motivated, but you rubbish, right? You do that first run, then you're on a high. And then like within a couple of weeks, you're like, I'm just not getting better. I'm on sore. And the motivation dips. But if you stick at it, suddenly you'll realize God, I'm running six minute K's and not breaking a sweat. Then also you're like, oh, right, now that three hour, four-hour marathon time that I thought was unachievable becomes possible. And then your motivation goes up again.
Charlie Reading:Brilliant. I I love this. And I love, I love in particular your approach to a long-term goal. I don't have anything planned for 2035 yet. But what I do love is I have long-term goals that are kind of a bit more woolly. But I think what what's great about the approach you're talking about is that you're programming your subconscious to say, this is really important to me. I don't quite know how or when it's even possible for it to happen. But all the time in the background, your subconscious is going, hang on, I know this is an important thing, or hang on, there's an opportunity over here. If you do that, that'll lead to this thing that you've told me is important. And that's why having those long-term goals is so important. I think it's I think it's uh really, really, really powerful. One of the things I love chatting to you about while we were cycling the legs of the UK was your time growing up in Africa. Uh, obviously, Africa's really close to my heart, but and I've you know been lucky enough to go to the game reserve you spent a lot of your childhood growing up in. So, but one of the other things that came out of those stories was right at a young age, you seemed to have both people and animals trying to kill you, or you were getting yourself into situations where your life was at in danger. So, so I wonder if you could share one of those stories, whether it's to do with a lion or whether it's to do with those young male elephants that you you shared with me, but then also kind of tie into that. How you think that childhood has formed the career that you have later on found?
Sean Conway:Yeah, Africa, my African childhood was amazing. Like I was I grew up on the Zambezi River in Zimbabwe, then moved to South Africa. My dad's a rhino and elephant conservationist, specializes in rhino and elephant conservation management and big game, game reserve, game park management as well. And yeah, I just I grew up in the bush. And like, I don't know how my parents manage or coat. Like we had snakes everywhere. Snakes that would kill you in half an hour. You know, we'd go on a game drive, and I'm on the back of the bucky, we used to call it the pickup truck. Um, and you know, I remember coming around the corner and there was a zebra kill on the side of the road. I used to collect like skins and skulls and animals in my bedroom, and you know, it was just just your typical African upbringing, right? And I remember seeing the zebra skull on the road. I was like, oh, suddenly I remember climbing out the back of the pickup. Just I was literally almost like in the air, you know, going to get this thing. It's suddenly in the grass next to it, a lion jumped. I scared the crap out of this lion, and it just looked at me, and I looked at it, I climbed back in the car. I hadn't jumped at least. And I was like, I was one second away from jumping on top of a lion. And I don't think it would have taken it too well. And then, you know, the elephants as well, you know, we we had people killed, unfortunately. It's really tragic by a herd of elephants that were in the road, and this person just hooted and they got annoyed and they just ran the car and unfortunately killed the driver. And that was, you know, 500 meters from my house. So it was it was a really dangerous place. You know, I had a hyena come in our house once. Someone left the the garden gate open and someone left the kitchen door open. And then the thing hyena came in and trashed our living room. And the first I heard about it was my mum waking me up at six in the morning, giving me a right bollocking for leaving the the living room in a mess overnight. I was like, it wasn't me, Mum, I promise. She was like, Wasn't that? And luckily we found the bike parks and the spore print outside. So yeah, it was it was quite adventurous. I do joke, you know, whenever I give a talk and I sort of at the beginning of my talk is a little bit about my my African upbringing. The sort of the running joke is that, you know, my dad says, sure, you know, even now I'm 44, sure, when are you gonna get a real job, mate? I'm like, Dad, you took that you took that off the table a long time ago, you know, having this amazing adventurous upbringing. How does it how has it affected my life now? Well, there's there's just I had an outdoorsy wilderness life. So that there's that part of me, I guess I'm yearning for, just to live that, be out in the world and travel and and and that sort of thing. It made me resilient, you know, walking around barefooted is you know, we we try and encourage our boys to run around barefoot because you know, the less you you run around barefoot, the more likely you are to get your feet cut up when you don't, you know. So it's sort of this thing like you know, parents put your shoes on, you're gonna get your foot cut. That's sort of why they're gonna get their feet cut, right? So we are like, go and get your feet cut. You do it more often, eventually your feet won't get cut because they'll be super strong, right? It builds that resilience. And that's obviously quite a physical metaphor for for resilience. But but yeah, it was uh you sort of life was just tougher. It was, you know, things kind of kill you the whole time. And you know, we only had electricity for a few hours a day, and then it was just always on a generator, so it went off. There's mosquitoes, snakes, there's frogs in your shoes every time, you know. So if you, you know, in our household, before you put your shoe on, you tap the heel on the floor in case a snake or a frog came out, and that was just life. You just tapped, yeah, it's a frog, let the frog outside, put your shoe on. So yeah, it couldn't I can't see me sort of having that childhood and doing anything other than what I'm doing now. And I tried, I tried photography. I thought I'd be a national geographic photographer, but I made poor decisions and went down a route that was sort of, you know, in my head was easy money, which it was photographing school kids in the early 2000s before camera phones when the only way to get pictures of your kids was school portraits, really, or paying for one at a studio. And uh yeah, that was that's what I did unfortunately. Made some poor decisions and stepped away from that sort of adventurous spirit in me, which I was probably trying to hide away or deny or think was not important, really, that it was. I can't, it just sits in me. I have to do it really. And yeah, that was that was it. I mean, so I can I can really I need to thank my dad, you know. It's like thanks, Dad. You know, you've you've met you and mum, of course, because she was also working in the game reserve as well with dad. Um, and yeah, with without them, I would have to, you know, had a very, very different outlook on life. And everyone has their own life, and I'm just pretty happy with the one I've lived lived, really.
Claire Fudge:Do you I mean that childhood just sounds amazing from you know, coming from the UK and listening about that and and kind of those stories? Do you I can see you understand now you're describing it, like that adventure that you had as a child and how that maybe kind of now plays out in terms of what makes you happy or tick right now or the terrier, whatever it might be. But do you think that's also had an impact on how like resilient you are, like the the fact that you can keep going through anything? Has that childhood had an impact on that side of your endurance? Do you think?
Sean Conway:Yeah, definitely. From a resourcefulness point of view, I think the other thing that growing up in the wilderness in Africa is you had to be pretty resourceful when things went wrong. You know, you couldn't, there was no easy fix because you're, you know, I was an hour from anywhere, you know, civilized really. So when things broke or things didn't go your way, you sort of had to do it yourself, like find a way of fixing it or any problems, you had to really, you couldn't really call anyone else in, you had to sort of do it yourself. And I remember, you know, with mum and dad being really that really sort of rubbing in on me that you know, if something breaks, you fix it, you don't buy a new one. You know, my dad now, so it's 2025, he has the same microwave that he bought in 1995. Yep. Ready? So he has had the same microwave for 30 and he and every day he cleans it and lets it dry out and fixes it. Same. I think he he still had one of those box TVs with the wooden veneer around the edge of it. I think he had all those until like 2012 or something, because you just like, well, it still works. It actually doesn't dad, it's completely green, but you can't see it. So just get yourself a proper telling. So yeah, I remember that rubbing off on me, you know, trying to be resourceful. And then the resourcefulness leads to resilience because you know, you can be resourceful all you want, but it might not work, and you've got to do it again and do it again and do it again. So, you know, and it'll be something simple, like you know, you're driving in the bush in the rain and you get stuck in the mud. You're like, well, like I can't just call it a tow truck because we're in the middle of nowhere. You know, if we're here too long, the lions and elephants are gonna come. Or let's get stuck, you know, we need to get out of the mud. So you've you know, you're throwing the car mats out and you're digging and you're throwing rocks underneath, and you're reversing it back and forth, back and forth, and you're working out what works and what doesn't work, and eventually you get up. And then, you know, all those little experiences as a kid definitely gave me that mindset of trying to fix stuff. I think I definitely have a part of me. And that's probably a little bit of the monkey there as well that likes to break stuff and fix it and do stuff with my hands. But you know, finding a solution to fix a problem is definitely ingrained in me from a young age, and that really transfers well into the multi-day ultra injured and stuff where things aren't going wrong, when things are going wrong or are difficult or broken, now be very resourceful. Right, I need to make a plan here. This is what I can control, this is what I can't control. Let's write a list, let's see what's the the optimum to make this get out of the situation as quick as possible, and then you implement that and inevitably that sets the ball rolling for you to overcome whatever issue you're in at the moment.
Claire Fudge:I can imagine, you know, and having having read before this as well, you know, like the number of things that you've had to, you know, endure and get out of as well is yeah, that that resilience and and resourcefulness is is is really important. Going back to your uh your book, the Iron 105, you uh talked about struggling to be able to make friends, and part of the motivation was a connection. Did that work for you? And has endurance sports helped you find that connection or or that belonging?
Sean Conway:Absolutely. Firstly, I I don't want to sound like you know a bit of misery sitting at home going, oh, I don't have any mates. Like I have I have really good friends, but what I meant in the book is I just moved to North Wales and then it was COVID. So I sort of spent the first few years in in North Wales, you know, just stuck in the house, really, not meeting anyone. So that that was sort of part of my journey of of sort of kind of wanting your I call it the snowball of life. You know, you with a snowflake, you're gonna, you know, float down and you either gonna freeze or melt in this in the one spot, or if you want, and this is up to you, you can take that first step forward to create a bit of momentum, and then someone will join your your uh your snowflake. And eventually the more people that join, it becomes this sort of real, you know, I call it the snowball of life. And and the the bigger the snowball, the more people actually want to join. It's incredible how just that works. People are attracted to a fast-moving ship, you know. No one wants to join a sinking ship, so you know, but you've got to make that first step. You know, if you don't, you'll just melt or freeze, right? And community is one of the 10.5 pillars, and that over time I've realized has just as much importance as all the other pillars in the in the in the 10.5 pillars. Because it never used to be. And I've I always sort of thought, oh well, it's just community out on my own. And yeah, okay, I might have some coaches and trainers and practice and nutritionists and that sort of thing, but really it's me, I'm just doing it all by myself. But really, it's just not much fun. You know, find your tried, find your people, find your community, and just life's better when you find the same sort of people who have the same sort of thoughts as you and have the same philosophy. And also in the world of endurance and things, you know, two you on your own as you on your own, you and one other person who's the right person equals three people. And you and four or five of the right people equals a hundred people, you know. And it's important about nurturing those people and and choosing wisely the people who you want in your snowball. Because you can get people who join your snowball for ulterior motives or toxic people who just want their they want to be part of the momentum, and they can bring you down, you know, because often in a team, the team will often, and this has been proven, will sort of kind of sync to the lowest performing person. So it's really important to like get everyone, lift lift everyone up. Don't put people down, lift them up, get everyone together, get everyone excited, and get that momentum. And that's why our community is is on my 10.5 pillars, because it's just that energy and that that sort of connection with other like-minded people, it's just so important. And same in business, it's when you employ people, you've got to find those people, right? As well. You don't want someone bringing everyone down. You want the really nice, solid group of people in your snowball. And then you'll just find it easier. Even though I was it was still me doing it, I still needed the two Chris, Justin, Phil, Ryan, Simon, you know, everyone in that my crew, day-to-day crew, were just incredible. You know, they were just incredible. Without them, it would have been impossible really to do it. So yeah, it's it's it's really taught me a lesson, that community element of endurance, really.
Charlie Reading:I think it's one of the things that I took most from our Lanzent Johnny Groce cycle ride. You know, there's five of us all doing, all embarking on this journey together. You know, some of us had almost very little multi-day experience. You obviously have huge amounts of multi-day experience, but sort of that building of that tribe together and kind of helping each other. We all had kind of moments where we were not on top of the the the I don't know at our best, and then sort of supporting each other through that. I think it was it was really, really powerful. And I also love the fact that you set a new PB while we're going from Lands End to John of Groats by being with us, so that was really cool. But what did you so we're obviously all new to that Land's End to John of Ghost experience, but you've done it many times in many different formats. What did you take from the experience of cycling from Lands End to John of Groats with us beginners?
Sean Conway:Well, it made me realise sort of a couple of things actually. One is how much I actually really enjoyed being a part of it, you know, even though I'd done almost every single road we'd cycle on, except the bit in Scotland where we cut cut north. I hadn't done that bet through Edinburgh and the Kangorn, so that was exciting. And also B, I feel like I almost, and I wish I'd done this before, really, because yeah, I did my first dance in genre, it's 2008. I I feel like I've not given the community back enough in the form of just being that mentor, that figurehead, that person who can put on these events that people can sign up for and join. And because of that, I've actually now, as of, well, we'll watch this space, it's gonna happen soon, by a big meeting tomorrow. I'm gonna be launching the Sean Conway Adventure Series, where which will be cycling based, and you'll be able to come and join me. There'll be four events around the world, all cycling based, all a week long, and it it'll be the Sean Conway Adventure Series, and I'll be at each one, hosting each one, telling people how to do it. There'll be a bit of fun, bit of dancer, pretty much exactly how we did it, nice evenings out and that sort of thing. So, yeah, it's made me sort of suddenly realize actually that was that was really good. And I I'm sort of kicking myself that I just because I was offered these things, you know, when I swam the length of Britain and then the fame and the Discovery Channel documentaries and then the Amazon documentaries. During that period, which is nearly 10 years ago now, I had all this stuff come to me and I was like, oh no, I don't know. I had all these excuses and reasons why I shouldn't do it. And and I'm kicking myself now because I think I've missed an opportunity to make the community bigger. I think people would have got a lot from it. So now I've got some catching up to do. So yeah. So hopefully every year we're gonna run this this this four-part uh Sean Conway adventure series. So yeah, watch this space, it's gonna be fun.
Charlie Reading:I am very excited about that. I think I think you can you can make sure I'm on the distribution list for that because I think uh I think it so I learned a huge amount from you just I remember going into the McDonald's in I can't even remember where we were, somewhere sort of on the Scottish border. And I would have normally, I mean, normal, I can't, I think it was probably 25 years since I'd actually stepped foot into McDonald's. But even if I'd been, you know, it was a it was somewhere that I would have been regularly, I would have been like, oh, I think I fancy the flavor of this, or I like the what's the healthy option. Sean just goes straight to the calorie list and goes, right, that's the highest calories, that's the second highest calories. I'll have those two, please.
Sean Conway:Yeah, well, it's it's me, you know, I'm going back to my superpower of I micro analyze and micromanage everything. And you know, two of the the pillars is there's uh nutrition and hydration and then recovery and over and well and experience, you know, that's that's the other one. Experience is another pillar. So, you know, I was implementing three of those pillars in that moment, right? Experience said straight after a ride, I need calories and and I need some well, I need some fat, I need some carbs, I need some protein, I need some hydration, and that sort of ticks the nutrition hydration. I need a bit of salt as well, that ticks the nutrition and hydration, and also the recovery side. You know, part of the recovery is sleep, and then also part of the recovery is must muscle management as well, which are also some of the other pillars. And yeah, it's sort of, I get so frenzied on it almost, you know. Like, because I know through experience, I know that actually right now, priority one, food and hydration, which was more than sleep, more than a shower. Because everyone, all you guys are like, oh, I'm gonna go for a shower and chill out. I'm like, no, no, no, I'm gonna go and eat and then have my shower and then I'm gonna eat again. How many, yeah? There's a couple of times what we got into like a weather spoons, didn't we? I went to have a meal on my own, then went and showered. I'm still in my dirty cycling kit. Everyone's looking at me like, this is weirdo. But that was priority one. I knew I needed to eat. So I ate, went and showered, came back and had my second meal. So I never I lost no weight on landstonic roads. I was never in a calorie deficit. And I mean, I'm still slow on the hills, right? I was waiting for you to bring that one up, but uh you didn't, so I was. You saved me the bother. So yeah, that that was yeah, that's all part of it. And I really feel like you know, I want to shared that knowledge with people. So I'm excited about yeah, putting on the series really.
Claire Fudge:You the series, by the way, I agree with Charlie, sounds amazing. Um, I think both of our bucket lists are huge. So that's definitely going to be on it. So, in terms of nutrition, hydration, like with all the challenges that you, all the adventures that you've had, and you also talk about one of your other pillars being experienced, what have you learned really hard lessons in? So when it comes to nutrition and hydration, what has really made you rethink your strategy or seek out help?
Sean Conway:Yeah, that's a really good question. The thing with nutritional hydration, on 90% of the records I've done, is I've had I've had very little options. So I there's not there's been very few times where I've had a choice for nutritional hydration. So the first thing I've learned is it's better, especially in the multi-day stuff where you're gonna potentially be in a calorie deficit. Like the Iron Man's, I was 8,000 calories a day was my burn rate. We monitored that with heart rate and actually what I was eating and my weights every day. I was, yeah, I was going through 8,000 calories a day. If I was 7,000 calories a day for a week, I would maybe lose muscle. And if I lost the wrong muscle, I'd lose power, which meant I'd be slower, which meant I'd have less recovery. And then that can be a downward spiral. So it got for me, and this is this is very, very niche because it probably wouldn't count for everyone. For me, it's almost the first philosophy is it's better to eat uh the wrong thing than nothing. Because sometimes you think, oh, well, that's not so good for me. Actually, for me, it's often just a calorie number. I just I'm doing multi-day stuff. Yes, am I going to perform the best on it? Probably not, but it'll stop me losing weight. And and and and that for me was sort of almost the most important thing. So on the iron hands, I was downing 2,500 calories of full fat cream every single day, which meant I didn't lose weight. Well, I did. I I lost three kgs in the 105 days, a kg a month, pretty much, which for me I think is phenomenal. I I started two kgs heavier. The first two I got down to to race weight, which for me is about 68 kgs. And I got dropped to 67. You can actually see my time start getting a bit slower when I lost that last kg, because that was muscle, really. But you know, I still did pretty good. I mean, I did a double iron man and lost three kgs or four kgs like a couple of years ago in in 48 hours. So yeah, I was pretty happy with that. So yeah, for me, it was important to uh sort of just eat anything really, and that's sort of what I've learned in my stuff. But as I said, it's that's not really how most people listening to this who don't really do week-long and month-long things. And the other thing also is just I cut out the sugar stuff. Yeah, that's that's never really w worked for me. I I I I don't feel good either. Doesn't give me energy, so I tend to just try and eat natural food. Or chewy, chewy bars, you know, something that's a bit easier to chew. I don't really do gels. I have done them in the past, and the faster things I'm doing now with higher heart rate gels are good. The gels now are very, very good. So I'm testing out different gels at the moment. So yeah, that's sort of that's been my nutritional journey. But it's it's basically just eat everything.
Claire Fudge:I guess you know, you're talking about uh, you know, this experience, and you know, your gut has to get used to everything that you're taking on. And if that's really limited, it's got to get used to it, hasn't it? What kind of limit like you talked about downing that cream, but what other limited food choices do you mean? Like what kind of give us some examples of what that might have been other than other than cream boards.
Sean Conway:Yeah, I mean, you know, so the the the I've only done two things with a full support crew, swimming the length of Britain and Iron Monified. Everything else I've been self-supported, traveling across countries, which is normally meant me just running into service stations or things. So, like for example, in South America, you know, I'm just running into a cafe, you know, the clock's ticking, I need to order quickly. And sometimes what I would do there, just because of a language barrier, is I'd look at all the plates of people. As I'm walking through, people are sitting down with plates of food, and I could scan very quickly what I think would be the best for me. So it'll be a bit of meat, either rice, or if it was, you know, if it was rice or pasta, I'd always choose rice, rice or potato, I'd probably choose potato or rice, I'd mix them up and then a choosing meat. But it's South America. So I'm looking at something that looks a little bit like a guinea pig. I'm like, well, I don't know, I'll have that, please, because that's the only dish I could see with meat on it. So yeah, there's been that. And then like in Russia, when I cycled across Europe, I did 1,200 miles of Russia. And that was you'd you're legally allowed to cycle on motorways in Russia, which is stupid, but you are, so you have to to break the record, otherwise you just won't break the record. So I'm just diving into service stations. And I it's it's I know it's a cliche, but literally their service stations was like half of it was crisps and the other, half was vodka. So I'm just like, oh well, I'll just have crisps. So I'm trying to live on like crisps and rubbish, just whatever you get in service stations, really, which is not not optimal, but you just got to do it really. You've got to do it. And and you do get quite good at at you know working out, you know, a bag of crisps is 500 calories per 100 grams, which is pretty amazing, actually. It's really, and it's got salt, it's got fat, it's got carbs. So and you know, I put a bite of little hole in the crisps, crunch them up, squeeze all the air out, crunch all the crisps up, open the packet, and you can just pour them in your mouth, and you can have a whole bag in like 20 to 30 seconds, really.
Claire Fudge:That's a top tip.
Sean Conway:Yeah, and then with a bit of water in your mouth, you swirl it around, chew, chew, chew, boom. You know, bananas, don't chew the banana. If you want slow energy, you swallow them in chunks, and that's like a slow release gel. So there's lots of those sort of things where I just run in and just grab whatever I can. And it's never optimal. It's never, never optimal. But as I said, it's better to eat the wrong thing than nothing. Because once you lose too much weight, the power goes, the speed goes, your cognitive ability goes, everything goes. You might just just eat, you know.
Claire Fudge:And it works for you.
Sean Conway:So that's that's just yeah, just about, you know, but which is why supportive attempts are so much quicker than self-supported, because A, you're not carrying anything, but B, you've got all the nutrition, and you've worked that out before. You know what you can eat, you got someone feeding you, you know. Like when I did the the marathon leg of the Iron Man's, you Phil, who was my crew on the run, he was cycling next to me and he had bottles with powders in and crisps and some pasta meals, and and you just knew like 20 minutes, like sure, drink now. And even if I was moaning, like, my stomach, oh, I don't want to like she's like, you do it, mate, you do it. You know you're gonna, you know, hate me tomorrow if you don't. I'm like, yeah, okay, fair enough.
Claire Fudge:Fantastic. So I guess the big question is, you know, what what's next? You know, you're talking about things that are in your calendar in 2035, but what big challenges are next in your mind? Are there things out there that still really scare you or maybe let's say excite you? Uh, probably in the same sentence.
Sean Conway:Yeah, I mean, I've got so many. I mean, the first thing I would say is I still owe Caroline quite a few sort of childcare days, so which I'm actually quite enjoying, to be honest. You know, pay it's payback time now. So yeah, I I don't know if I'm hungry for something very, very long where I'm away from the family. My boys are still young, they're only six and three. So it'd be nice for them to be a little bit older so that they can be part of the journey. And you know, nowadays with connectivity, they can really feel like part of it. I've actually set up my TV at home so I can do video calls on the big TV. So if I'm away from the kids, you know, they're not just like chatting to me on a phone. Like they're there, they can I can put my phone around and they can see where I am in the world, and that's quite exciting for them. And they're getting to an age now where they're starting to work out that wow, daddy's in this country. Wow, that's pretty cool. Well, the older one is the younger one that doesn't really know yet. But uh yeah, so but then there's little stuff, yeah. There's a little stuff like that on my bucket list, which you know, are they harder than 105 Iron Man's? Probably not. I don't think I'll do anything as hard as that physically and mentally, just because there's no off-button, there's no averaging on that record. But that's still hard for me. You know, there's like the tunnel race, the run called the tunnel. It's one mile, it's a one mile tunnel which you run back and forth 200 times, 200 mile race. That would be very difficult for me. I've never done that before. So, you know, there's those sort of events that I'm quite excited about doing, along with my youth sport work. I've just got super motivated to do more youth sport work. So I was talking to Charlie about I own a particular website that I've got big grand visions for in the world of youth sports. So hopefully going to activate that, yeah, pretty soon, really, to get that up and running. Yeah, so that's all part of these, again, these long-term, long-term goals. But yeah, the terrier, back to your original question. So the terrier is still asleep after the Iron Man. Let's put it that way. He's not he's not woken up for anything crazy difficult yet, which my wife's very happy about.
Charlie Reading:And are all the all of your adventures, you've ended up inspiring literally thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people. And but what I what I'm interested in is what other endurance achievements completed by others have you been inspired by? Maybe something, you know, some things in recent years that people have have achieved, records that have been set that you've thought, wow, that was that was really phenomenal.
Sean Conway:So of everyone who's broken all these big records, there's probably there's only a couple that I look at and go, I don't think I could do that. One is Mark Beaumont's Round the World in 80 Days on the bike. I've looked at the figures, I just don't think I could push that power to get that average speed. You know, he's 85 kgs, I'm 68. You know, my power, because it's a flat course, and someone bigger on a flat course is gonna push more power. Yeah, you know, I can tuck smaller potentially, but you just have to have so many stars alive to break Mark Beaumont's record. It's incredible. That's 78 days to cycle around the world is phenomenal, including transitions, right? So you know, he's averaging 240 miles a day. Yeah. Even on the days where he has to fly. I mean, it was just yeah, which means if there's a day he only does 200, he's got to do 280 the next day to have it out again. Yeah, it's incredible. So that was amazing. And then some of Ross Edgely's big long swims recently, where he's done 60 hours to make I'm like, that is very I think I could maybe do that if I really just threw all my eggs into into one basket, into the swimming basket. But that's been very impressive. His his swims have been really, really phenomenal. Um, so yeah, those two are of some of the recent ones. And then, you know, obviously there's some obviously really difficult rivers like Diana Nyad's Cuba to Florida swim. That was incredible. If anyone hasn't watched TED Talks, amazing. They made a Netflix brought out a film called Nyad about it, and that took her like 30 years or something. Yeah, that was incredible to achieve. I actually failed five times, right? Such a good story. So yeah, those are those are some of them. Yeah, well, they're just coming to me. I had the hammer, highest annual mileage record. Amanda Cocker has that record. She did want to see uh eighty, eighty thousand, eighty-five thousand in a year. 200 it's like 210 miles a day for the whole year on the bike. Yeah, it's incredible. Yeah, super. I think I could do that one. I think I could do that one, but it's still very impressive.
Charlie Reading:It's absolutely absolutely incredible. And then and then sort of switching this onto books, you've obviously you mentioned that you've written eight books, I think that's right. Eight and I dare say there's well, I know there's another one in the in the pipeline, but I think it's it's aimed at your grandchildren. So share, share with us that the concept of that book.
Sean Conway:You know what? So I bet you, and there's I've had a hundred percent success rate on this. I've asked, everyone I've ever asked on this. I I've said, how do you do you think your grandparents led a very unique and interesting life? Everyone I asked is oh, yeah, absolutely. And you know, my grandparents took the steamboat from England and Ireland to Africa and landed up in Zimbabwe. You know everyone, 100% of people say it, no matter how old they are. I've asked people who are now 16, 70, I've asked people who are 20. I was like, none of them wrote anything down, you know. And I was like, man, I wish they had just written down what they did. So now I've actually I've written about 45,000, 50,000 words into it, and I think I might just call it dear grandkids, but it's literally a book. Has written to my future grandkids, and it's telling them about my African childhood, my years at school, then my 10 years in London as a photographer. Everything up till the adventure stuff, because I've got the eight books now from then on, from 30 onwards, right? But you know, there's all the stories about me as a kid growing up in Africa and at school, and which I think would be fun for them to read. Like I wish I had those stories from my grandparents. So yeah, once when I publish that book, it's sort of going to be a two-parter publication. Well, like two a pronged approach. One is I just gotta publish the book and maybe people will read it. But the second one is I really want to actually more push this idea that everyone should write a dear grandkid's book. You don't have to think, and we talked about this, because you know, the idea of writing a book, you get overwhelmed by it. But you know, I've sent I've sent you the draft, I just wrote little chapters. This is the story about the hyena coming in the house, and this is the story about me nearly drowning the first time, and this is the story about me nearly drowning the second time, uh, or me nearly jumping on a lion. So and I sort of just broken down into all these little one-page little mini stories. So yeah, I think the I think the book's gonna be called A Diary of a Kid from Africa and made sort of you know, two of my future grandkids or something as a subtitle. But uh I love it.
Charlie Reading:I love writing, I love it. It's it's I think yeah, I think it's a really good idea. And I what I really liked about it was so I having written four books, I've written some of the kind of stories that are important to me, but there's other stories that just don't have a place in any of those books, like the story of how Carol and I got together is not in any of those books, and yeah, it should be written down for for the grandkids. So I I think it's a I think it's I think it's a beautiful thing. And of course, and I will have asked you this right uh in the first time you had you on the podcast, but what books written by others have inspired you on your journey or do you find yourself recommending to other people?
Sean Conway:Wow, that's a good question. I love just sports men and women's autobiographies, and one that I really did like was Chris Froom's one, because he really sort of I feel like we had a similar connection, you know. Chris Froom's book, he you know, grew up in Kenya, and you know, there's him hustling, trying to get onto races, you know, in the back of his car with the bike turning up with the ronkit. And you know, he had this really amazing mentor in Africa to trained him and got him better. He his was a real zero-to-hero story, which I really enjoyed, you know. That's probably one that sticks out because I have a kinship to his story, also having grown up in Africa and that sort of thing. So yeah, I did I did enjoy Chris Shrooms. I mean, it was written quite a while ago now, but I do enjoy that one.
Charlie Reading:Brilliant. And then we have a closing tradition on the podcast where we get the last guest to ask the next guest a question without knowing who that is going to be for. And I think Claire has got Jiao Andre's question for you.
Claire Fudge:So Jiao asks, what's something you've never shared publicly that helped shape who you are today?
Sean Conway:Oh, that's a good question. Something I've never really talked about is from quite a young age, I was like a real entrepreneur in my teens. And I think that hustle as an entrepreneur, when I say entrepreneur, so at school, I was just really hustling to try and sort of like make money and make I don't think that was the goal to make money. I just like the idea of starting something and and trying to do things. So, for example, I became the house barber at my school with just you know for 50p to get a haircut, but it was clippers only. I wasn't good enough with scissors. So if you wanted something with clippers, I could do that 50p. I also had a secret tuck shop, the secret I had a uh so I hid this trunks at school and on the playground, people would be a short now. Yeah, you've got some you know, super C's, which is a suite, a famous suite you could buy. And I'd be like yeah, yeah, five Rand or whatever. So I did that. I then also became a you know, I was I'd sell pick photos around the school. So on Saturday I'd go and photograph all the sports matches and then get the film developed, and then I'm around the dining wall on the Monday showing everyone a picture. I'm like, oh Kevin, mate, look at this picture of you scoring a try, come on, you know. And then I'd go just give me cash, you know, or give me, you know, we trade and hang away, whatever. And yeah, I mean it was made, I wasn't really making any money, actual money, but I quite liked the idea of just being in that little world. And I think that sort of when I that's coming back actually. So when I then got into photography and I started hustling for like more jobs and doing all that sort of thing, I got quite excited. When the photography just really didn't pan out like I'd hoped, I really sort of became anti-that for a while, probably for a good, you know, six, seven, eight, nine, ten years, really. And I'm finding that's coming back now. And I'm really excited because I've got quite a few business ideas. You know, I talked briefly about this website I want to start. There's a couple of other books that are sort of more based around the 10.5 pillars and different products that I can, you know, give out to people for that and and sell that that way. So yeah, I it's it's weird how I did it early on, and I think that really helped me just again be resourceful in the way I think about things and approach things, and then you know, I then buried it for a bit, but it's coming back now. And I'm very I'm actually quite excited by it by starting all these little side projects like the Sean Conway Adventure series, like this website I'm gonna put together and and various other things. So, yeah, that that's something I've actually genuinely never never talked about. The sort of the time I used to be a hairdresser, sweep it, you know, like hustling about the bottom of my shoes. I felt like I was at the great escape, you know.
Charlie Reading:I love I love I love I love the idea of this sort of emerging over the course of the next few years. I'm really excited to see where this plays out. And and in particular with the series, they're obviously having benefited from being a part of that Lazan Troller Gross ride. Can you give us any more sort of clues as to what that might look like?
Sean Conway:Or so I'm I've not actually penned anything. So I'm actually uh I think part of the journey is going to be putting it out to people to say if you had a week to cycle somewhere, where would that with me, what would that look like? Is it across Iceland? Is it the length of Vietnam? Is it seven days of the Tour de France? I don't know. You know, is it the whole Alps? Because you could pretty much do follow the arc of the Alps in seven days, I reckon. Is it the Pyrenees back and forth? Yeah, whatever, you know, is it the Atacama Desert? Um, is it the Sahara? So that's it's sort of like really in the early stages of putting this thing together, which is going to be very, very exciting. I I literally had, you know, I had an email about it. Someone approached me, you know, about a month ago, and I sort of just didn't do anything about it. Because I had these other, these other plans, which are which are not happening now, which now allows me to have this conversation tomorrow, really. So I'm not, it's I'm very early days. So you're the pretty much first people to hear about it. I don't even think I've talked Caroline. I only confirmed the meeting half an hour before this recording. So yeah.
Charlie Reading:Well, I am definitely excited to hear about it. That's amazing. And what we'll do is like this this won't this recording won't go out on the podcast for a few weeks. So if you've got a bit more substance to it by then, or a or a link to a page about it, we can put that in the show notes. But yeah, I'm very excited and yeah, I'd love to uh share my opinion of where I think those should be going as well. So that's really cool.
Sean Conway:You're gonna choose some hills to beat me up again a bit.
Charlie Reading:I like the Alpine Adventure one, as I think we talked about sort of Geneva Tunis would be uh would be a very cool one. And yeah, we want to see you work on the hills as well.
Sean Conway:Did uh Modvant 2 a couple of weeks ago, and I I thought I was doing well. I think I was hit you know pushing 230, 240 watts up the whole way. You know, I'm quite liked, so I was pretty happy with that. You know, that's nearly just under three, four watts per kg. I'm pretty happy with that. And I got to the top thinking, surely I've done okay on this climb. Preferencing, you know, people often think I'm a really good climber, but actually I'm not, because most of my records have been sort of time trials, really. Like my cross Europe is pretty flat, my round the world is pretty flat. You know, most of them have been pretty flat. So I've never really exercised big hill climbing, which surprises people because everyone thinks I'm short and light, I'll be amazing, but I've just never done it. So, but this time I thought, well, I must be pretty good. And then I went on strava later, and that my position on the leaderboard was 69,990. Top 70,000 though. 70,000. 230 watts the whole way for two hours. I don't know how people just those those climbers are just another breed, aren't they? Wow. Yeah, did you so so how long did it take you?
Charlie Reading:One hour 57, I think. And did you look because they did more more Mont Vantu in the tour this year, didn't they? 54 minutes. Did you 54 minutes? Wow, that is incredible. This that is incredible. Yeah, it really yeah, it does highlight how amazing what they do is. Sean, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting to you again, as always. As always, you deliver some brilliant stories, some humours, but also some amazing lessons, not just in the world of endurance sport, but also in life and health as well. So huge thank you for everything you've done to inspire others. Huge thank you for sharing some of that with us today. And can't wait to see where it goes next and to hear more about the uh entrepreneurial journey.
Sean Conway:Yeah, thanks, thanks, Charlie. Thanks, Claire. It's been awesome, nice one.
Charlie Reading:So, what did you make of the chat with Sean?
Claire Fudge:Amazing. I mean, you've interviewed him right at the very beginning when this was Tribathlon, of course. So it was amazing. It was amazing to have a slightly different discussion with him as well. But my God, like I I think he just is, you know, if he had a dictionary definition of endurance, I think he would he would be it, wouldn't he?
Charlie Reading:I actually think he doesn't get anywhere near the credit he deserves for. I mean, like, we only fleetingly talked about his swim from Land's End to John of Groats, his fastest cycle across Europe, his furthest trathlon, because we talked about them in episode one. And and I'd really encourage people to go back and listen to that original episode. I think you'll find it's a very different. Hopefully, we've got a I've got a little bit more professional since I interviewed him. But just like we obviously only we barely touched on those. Those were huge achievements, but to then throw in Iron 105 as well, plus there's also so many more that we didn't even mention, whether it's his original Lanz Edge John Agrake's bike ride, whether it was him cycling. What I mean, the he's mentioned he threw in the Central America piece. Yeah. But we didn't talk about that at all, cycling around the world, all of those sorts of things. Just incredible. So, what were the lessons that you you took from it?
Claire Fudge:Do you know? I mean, I really love the bit actually, obviously, science backgrounds. I like a lot of bit of science. He talked about actually, you know, some of the like the one, um, the 105, for example, uh, he talked about, you know, a lot of people thinking, well, it's I can't even comprehend it. And the the fact that people almost disengage from it a little bit, like, well, that's crazy. Like he must be somebody different. So I really love the fact that he's trying to actually show people what is possible and actually what's impossible inside us. And you know, he was saying, you know, that's not just fiction. There is science to support this, it's factual. Like you are capable of doing it. So I loved, I loved that part because actually helping other people to be able to achieve their goals, it might not be as big as that, but that actually that anybody could achieve that. So I really, I really liked that. I loved his analogy, actually. I know, you know, there's lots of people have read about the monkey, can't remember the actual name of the idea. The chimp paradox. The chimp paradox, yeah. But I love this idea of his like creative side, which you can see coming out actually, and that kind of fun side, and this analogy of the terrier of like, you know, I've just got to go and get it, I've just got to go and do it. And that's really interesting because I I was thinking about business and also endurance athletes at this point. And I just thought, I can see that in a lot of business professionals that really make it, or an entrepreneur that really wants something and they go and get it. And you know, the same for an endurance athlete. Actually, I'm just gonna go and do it. So I liked I loved that analogy. Interesting that his terrier is a little bit quiet in the moment as well.
Charlie Reading:Well, it sounds like it's wore out still, I should think. Yeah. I mean, that's the same, that's the same with just picking up something very new. Yeah, I think I think, but I think, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? How he said it's just tired at the moment, so it's not it's not active, but it'll become active again. But I think I think you're right. I I think what I loved about the way he talked about goal setting. Like I love the fact that he said, you know, even if you're s if your goal, if your current goal is to do the couch to 5k, put a 10-year goal in of a hundred mile or a hundred kilometre run because it's like it seems so ludicrous, but he's absolutely right. What you can achieve over the long term, we massively underestimate. We overestimate what we can achieve, achieve in the short term. So and I loved his approach when he was doing the IM 105 of saying, well, okay, I I need to get faster, but I can't just knock two hours off my time in the next two or three days. So I've got to just work on one idea to get to knock five minutes off, and then one more idea to knock another five minutes off. Because those so it's uh like we said, it's easier to find a hundred one percent gains than it is to find one one hundred percent gains.
Claire Fudge:I thought that was my idea of micromanaging, like I often talk with my clients about this, you know, this idea of actually looking at every single layer, and I guess that's some of the one percent as well, isn't it? But you know, actually what what can I change right now that isn't a huge change, but just a small change because I've got all the data to show it. So what am I gonna tweak and tweak and change for that? So I liked that. Along with there's no plan B. I was interested by this.
Charlie Reading:There's no safety net.
Claire Fudge:Yeah. I get I I I I could really see where he was coming from though, because actually, if you give yourself, I don't know, let's say if you were if you were cycling or if you've got a business plan and you say, well, you know, if I don't hit the target, we will go for this because this is the bet the next best option. Or, you know, if you're given an option that on the way home from a 100-mile cycle, you can go the flat route or up over a hill, you know, a lot of people may may duck out. So I do get that idea of like, if that is your goal, that is where you're gonna go.
Charlie Reading:Well, as Tony Robbins said, if you're gonna take the island, you've got to burn the boats. You've got to have, you've got, you've got, you've got to only have one option. And that's what I suppose that's what it takes to achieve the insane levels of of endurance that he he's done. Really intrigued by his his monkey and terrier kind of analogy of the his two mindsets. And I really I'm gonna do a bit more. I've never kind of dug into I meant when I was sort of chatting to someone on the jog about it, I thought, I wonder what other animals are in that model. It's not a model I'm familiar with. I know I talk a lot about the Colbier index and the print assessment and things like that, which he sort of alluded to with whether you're a starter or a finisher. But but I don't know much about, I don't know anything more about what animals would I have making up my my mindset. So yeah, I thought that was I thought that was really, really interesting. Anything, any final takeaways?
Claire Fudge:Anything I think, I think one of the, you know, one of the great takeaways as well is you know having this this idea of community and team. He talked about actually it was after COVID, wasn't it, needing to get that community and team back. But actually, it's so true that by having, we talked about it a lot, haven't we? Like having the right people around you. And you talk about it a lot in the trusted team, about actually the team that you have around you supporting you in your business is so important to have the right people in the right, not sorry, in the right seeds, but the right people in your business, you know, to support you. And that snowball effect in one way or the other, you know, whether that's actually going to drag you down or whether it's actually gonna help you to get to where you need to be, and people then wanting to come in because it looks nice and the environment's great and they want to join you. So I really like that.
Charlie Reading:That tribe thing is really important. And in terms of nutrition, I mean I I remember sitting opposite him at breakfast when he's like emptying these packets of butter into his porridge so that he's he's upping the calorie and like pouring sachets of salt into his his glass of water, and yeah, like his his his order at McDonald's was one extra large milkshake and and a fries. That was that was it. So what did you what did you take from his approach to nutrition?
Claire Fudge:I think a number of things. And I'd love, of course, I'd love to have dived in way deeper to that. But I can I can kind of see how he's got like he talked about his model, right, and and experience. And I think this is really true. One, that when you when you're doing stuff and you're not going super fast, you're at a low endurance level, you need that sustained energy. So I get why he's having what he's having. And actually, he's absolutely right. If you're not getting those calories in, a total amount of calories, day after day after day, is gonna absolutely, you know, have have that effect. But from an experience point of view, because he's essentially, without probably even thinking about it, he's trained his gut to do it. So his gut can probably tolerate anything, you know. So actually, yes, we have all the theory and guidelines behind it, but that's actually proof that if you train yourself properly and train your gut as an organ properly, it will work. And you need to change what you're doing for the situation that you're in. So I'd love to have talked more about it, of course.
Charlie Reading:Well, I think I think if if you get the opportunity to join one of his bike rides and and learn as to how he or see it it firsthand, it's just a totally different approach to anything I've ever witnessed before because I'm thinking healthy, he's thinking I don't want to deplete any, I don't want any calorie depletion. So it's it's fascinating to see. But a really brilliant interview, an inspiring guy, but also a great storyteller and uh with with with many, many amazing stories to tell. So um, yeah, another great interview on the Business of Endurance podcast. Um for everyone at home, keep on training.