Business of Endurance

From Paris Grit To An LA Vision: What Happens When Sport Becomes A Community Engine With Ruth Daniels

• Charlie Reading • Season 10 • Episode 6

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Today’s guest is Ruth Daniels, CEO of British Triathlon and Triathlon England - a leader who has stepped into the sport’s top job with a background that’s anything but typical. 

From a successful legal career to steering the global fashion brand Superdry, Ruth brings a rare mix of commercial acumen, fresh thinking, and values-led leadership into the world of endurance sport. 

In this conversation, Ruth shares what it was like to guide British Triathlon through the Paris Olympics - her baptism of fire - and how she’s already planning to make LA even bigger. 

We talk about the future of multisport festivals like Burghley, how to solve open water challenges, and the culture and values she wants to embed across the sport. 

And, as a triathlete herself, Ruth reflects on her own sporting highlights and the lessons they’ve taught her. This is a masterclass in leadership, resilience, and why sport matters more than ever.


Highlights:

  • Baptism of Fire: How Ruth joined British Triathlon as CEO in an Olympic year - new to sport, new to the system, and straight into Paris preparation.
  • From Law to Lycra: How a career spanning global law firms and Superdry’s turnaround now fuels her mission to modernise endurance sport.
  • Beyond Paris, Eyes on LA: Building toward the next Olympics with a bold vision.
  • Swim. Bike. Run. Belong: Turning triathlon into a sport for everyone. 
  • Clean Water, Clear Purpose: Founding member of the Clean Water Sports Alliance - pushing water companies and Westminster for accountability.
  • Relevance & Resonance: “We can’t just rely on the same people doing the same thing” - the sport must evolve to stay culturally relevant.
  • Women Mean Business: Championing female participation, pregnancy policies, and visibility.
  • Culture as Competitive Edge: Building a purpose-led, high-trust, high-performing team unafraid to test, learn, and lead change.
  • From Burma to Britain: Her father’s wartime story of resilience and forgiveness shapes her own drive for inclusivity and purpose.
  • Legacy in Motion: How Ruth wants triathlon on the school curriculum and in everyday culture - “fit for the future, accessible for all.”


Links:

Connect with Ruth on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ruthdanceobrittri/

Connect with Ruth on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ruthpdaniels

Connect with Ruth on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielsruth/

Follow British Triathlon on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brittri/

Follow British Triathlon on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BritishTriathlon

Follow British Triathlon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/british-triathlon-federation

Follow British Triathlon on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/@BritishTriathlon

British Triathlon Website: https://www.britishtriathlon.org/

This episode was sponsored by The Trusted Team and 4th Discipline

Ruth Daniels:

But if we can get that bit right and create that foundation to then show that the sport is much more accessible than some people believe, then I think we can get more people who genuinely think that it's an option as a sport and that we break down those barriers around well, you don't need to have an expensive bike, you don't need to have an expensive bunch of kit that sits around. There's a real big movement around secondhand clothing and secondhand kit and sustainability, but also how we can invest and make sure the more diverse communities are able to access the sport and see it.

Charlie Reading:

Today's guest is Ruth Daniels, CEO of British Trathlon and Tramathlon England, a leader who has stepped into the sport's top job with a background that's anything but typical. From a successful legal career to steering the global fashion brand super dry, Ruth brings a rare mix of commercial acumen, fresh thinking, and values-led leadership into the world of endurance sport that we love. In this conversation, Ruth shares what it was like to become a British transform through the Paris Olympics. And how she's already coming to make LA even bigger and better. We talk about the future of multi-sport events like the Burley multi-sport weekend, how to solve the open water and water quality challenges, and the culture and values she wants to embed across the sport. And as a triathlete herself, Ruth reflects on her own sporting highlights and the lessons they've taught her. So this episode is a masterclass in leadership, resilience, and why sport matters more than ever. So, dive right into the brilliant episode with British Trathlon CEO Ruth Daniels. So could I ask you a quick favor before we dive into today's episode? If you're enjoying Claire and I bringing you amazing guests, not asking you for patronage fees and not jamming the podcast full of adverts, then the best way you can help us continue to do that and to make it even better is to hit that subscribe button. And here's my promise to you: when you subscribe, we'll make it our mission, along with the team that supports us, to continue to improve this podcast every week. So thank you so much for your support and for being a part of the business of endurance community. Let's dive in. So, Ruth, welcome to the Business of Endurance podcast. Really looking forward to chatting to you about all things business and all things triathlon. Favourite two subjects. So let's dive right in at the deep end because that's exactly what you had to do with your role at British Triathlon, didn't you? You joined as the CEO in an Olympic year, which must have been like a baptism of fire. So kind of talk us through what was that experience like both professionally and personally, kind of joining British Triathlon, right, you know, just in the lead up to Paris.

Ruth Daniels:

Thanks very much, Charlie. Good to good to meet you and Claire. Thank you for inviting me on the uh on the podcast. Um it was indeed a baptism of fire. I look back on last year and I think I had an out-of-body experience, if I'm honest, because I was just swept along in everything that was in train. One thing was certain was the Olympics and the Paralympic Games were going to happen. And so I needed to get on a learning curve as quickly as I as I could. I think one of my challenges was, as well as coming into the sport in an Olympic year and a Paralympic year, was the fact that I came from outside of sport. So it really was totally new. And my experience of the Olympics was very much as a spectator and going along to 2012 and shouting at everybody and cheering them on then. So, and I think for me it was, you know, I joined and it was really one of those things you had to get up to speed as quickly as possible to just understand who was doing what in the team. Um, clearly, the performance team had really clear, you know, kind of objectives that was to deliver those performances on the world stage. And so there was an element of having to work into a very trusted relationship very quickly with Mike, who's the performance director in that team, because that really wasn't my area of expertise. Also, to understand enough of what was going on around the athletes and the support and everything that was needed there. But I think for me, it was also to understand how what it meant for the rest of the organization and also how we would then leverage that and how we could leverage that for the sport as a whole, which is what we're there as a governing body to do. I think, you know, I mean, it was incredible and it's amazing what you can do when you have a focused goal. I think we've always been, we've all been in those high-pressure situations, doesn't matter what industry you work in where you literally have to deliver something. And it's amazing how everybody will pull together where they've got a really clear, aligned goal to get behind. And I must say, I was super impressed with how the organization responded to me joining, having that leadership transition, I think must have been really challenging for everybody, especially with someone coming in with a very different perspective. And what we managed to mobilize in a very short space of time was, I think, quite incredible. And I still look back and kind of go, How did how do we pull that off and how do we deliver it? But it was absolutely fantastic. And I think while I was out in Paris and for the Olympics and the Paralympics, just understanding the opportunity that it creates on the international stage for the relationship building, the networking that you know sits across our sports. There's not that many opportunities that you get together with everybody from all the federations around the world. Obviously, I was totally new into it. I was lucky that the then current chair or the then chair Bill James was incredibly supportive of setting me up for success in that as well, and UK sport as well in that in that process. So just quite incredible. I think for me, you know, we every everyone will know there was lots of will it will the swim happen, will it won't happen, and all that kind of thing, you know, getting up at three o'clock every morning to find out whether the whether the event that was going to happen and what format. And then again, you know, we had to pivot really quickly because they cancelled the women's event and they moved it and they condensed the both the races on the same day. And trying to figure out what you do with partners that you've taken out to the event, you know, they're there to go and watch the their Olympic experience, and then all of a sudden they can't do it. So, how you work with other providers to then give them an experience that they're going to remember, and how we were trying to scrabble around and make sure that all the families had tickets to be able to go and watch their kids participating because, you know, so lots and lots of challenges. And I spent the for the watching the the women's in the men's races, I was hosting the ambassador, the British ambassador. And I mean, if I look back on my previous life, that again was a totally novel experience for me. Mina, she was absolutely incredible. I still have a video of us screaming down the camera when Alex won and when Beth came across the line as well. And we hosted an event at the British Embassy, and again, what an incredible experience to have been able to do that and for me to stand up. And I just thought, oh, this is little old me from the middle of England standing up here talking to all these people about triathlon.

Charlie Reading:

So incredible. Amazing. Was it was there a standout moment? Was there a particular highlight that will kind of stay with you for forever?

Ruth Daniels:

I think there are just several. I think that moment at the at the embassy when I'm standing there with you know the Duchess of Edinburgh and the and the ambassador and trying to figure out how I actually introduced them and standing there. The I mean, look, the racing was incredible. And of course, you know, the the women's race was was brilliant, and Beth getting a bronze was was amazing. We all know that Alex's moment crossing the line was just incredible. I mean, I was I was in tears the whole time. I think I probably spent most of the Olympics in tears, actually. It was a very emotional experience. But that true kind of grit of getting over the line and getting that gold medal was was sort of standout. And there's been obviously lots of lots of playouts of that. And but the Paralympics for me, you know, it showcases so many incredible individuals and what they are capable of doing. And we, you know, we have the second most successful Olympic, Paralympic, Paralympic team, and those moments of Dave Ellis with Luke Pollard crossing the line when they'd had such an awful mechanical in in Tokyo, incredible. And yeah, so as I say, lots of amazing moments. And yeah, just feel very privileged, very, very privileged to have been able to experience it in the way that I was and to be in a sport that delivered so many amazing moments for everybody as well.

Charlie Reading:

Brilliant. And looking back, is there anything that you would have done differently, whether it's sort of during the Olympics or in that sort of short lead up to the Olympics, you know, knowing what you know now, is there anything you do do differently?

Ruth Daniels:

I'd have probably joined a year earlier, and that would have been that would have been helpful. Um I think for me the planning is is is really critical. And I feel very lucky to have been through that cycle because I already now have one eye on LA and what we need to be doing in the broader organization sense. So the performance team operate in the four-year cycle because that's how they get funded. So there's always the build-up. The rest of the organisation don't necessarily work in work in work in that way because obviously we're across lots of different aspects of the sport, and it's not just about the Olympics. I think how we engage the community around triathlon in the lead up to the Olympics. I think I would love us to be doing much more around that going forward. Um, you know, we are Team GB, which means we're across England, Scotland, and Wales. And it's really important that we bring everybody into that build-up. We managed to do a summer-inspired campaign and we made available lots of activities for free, which actually was really good. And we saw a huge uptick of people being able to participate in the sport at a grassroots level. I want to make sure we're doing much more of that going forward, and also that the sport is much more visible. So we have our moment as a sport because we're an Olympic sport on the world stage every four years because of the way broadcast works, because of the domination of certain sports like football and football. Um, and obviously there's there's other sports as well. But you know, triathlon does not get the visibility that a lot of other sports do. So for me, it's making sure that we try and build that visibility before games and also after the games in a way that that make that makes better sense. And profiling the athletes, telling their stories in a more comprehensive way, I think is really important. I love what is going on around the rugby, the Women's Rugby World Cup and the interest that has been created, the social media, the profiling of the athletes and everything as well. And what that does is it creates a real movement around the sport. And I think for me, how we translate that into triathlon, I think is really key. And then I think the other aspect of it as well, you know, financial sustainability is really important for us as an organization. We have some fantastic partners that I think we could do probably an even better job of leveraging those partners, giving the partners opportunities around the games. Obviously, there's restrictions from a branding perspective, but I think also how we leverage that to also engage with new partners going forward as well.

Claire Fudge:

Obviously, you you're talking there about LA, and that's like the well, you know, performance is already planning, isn't it, for um for LA? But with all of those things that you were mentioning in terms of partnerships, and you know, I love this idea of you know really getting the athletes out and actually people getting to know them in terms of you know those profiles. I assume some of that is going to be part of your plan and is in the plan for LA. But what in particular are you planning to do with triathlon for LA to make it even better than Paris? And you know, how how do you see, I guess, bringing triathlon further forward, you know, with all of those goals that you've talked about?

Ruth Daniels:

Ready for ready for LA. Well, I keep on sort of repeating what I ultimately, my vision of triathlon is that it's in everyone's living room and it's how media organizations talk about their brands. And because I've worked in media organizations, it's basically how do we take the sport to being more mainstream so that it's got more visibility. So when I say it's in everyone's living room, I mean that people are either watching it, they're talking about it, they're doing it, they're volunteering in it, or they're working in it. And that I really genuinely believe that that's possible. And for me, if you break down the sport, it's swim, it's bike, it's run, those are the three fundamental skills that children need to be learning when they're younger. And, you know, I would say as a country, we've probably not done so well on that foundation, in particular on the swimming side of things. But if we can get that bit right and create that foundation to then show that the sport is much more accessible than than I think some people believe. And there's definitely a bunch of work that's being done that is definitely doing that, then I think we can get more people who genuinely think that that it's an option as a sport and that we break down those barriers around, well, you don't need to have an expensive bike, you don't need to have an expensive bunch of kit that sits around. You know, there's a real big movement around secondhand clothing and and so secondhand kit and sustainability, but also how we can invest and make sure that more diverse communities are able to access the sport and see it. You know, if you can't see it, you don't believe it and you won't and you won't do it. So there's all of those things that we need to do. I also think at the moment as a sport and also from endurance in general, there's some really great activity that's happening around the sport. We've got commercial partners like the PTO, like Super Try, and also more broadly in the endurance world. I mean, look at the explosion in running that's happening, that we can absolutely leverage and work together. I've, you know, I'm incredibly collaborative and I've been having lots of great conversations with Sam and Michael at PTO and Super Try. And I think if we work together and raise that conversation and visibility, then I really think as as Alistair Brownie said to Alex on his last lap, anything is possible.

Claire Fudge:

So no, I mean, there's there's so much to do, it sounds like, in terms of you know, trying to get all of that that visibility. And I can totally understand, you know, from a partnership perspective, really trying to kind of you know raise that. You talked about water quality actually right at the very beginning. And I think we've all got a story to tell about water quality in some shape or form. But what are the questions on people's lips in terms of, you know, is that already being talked about in LA? I know it must be something that's talked about, you know, every time these athletes are traveling, you know, water quality is something they, I guess, deal with. But yeah, what are the questions, what are the big questions for for LA that they're that you're looking at?

Ruth Daniels:

Yeah, I think LA it's it's more around air quality than than water quality. So, you know, the pollution that's that sits around LA is is kind of a big issue. And with the water, it's it's the sea swim. So the you know, the challenges around the the waves and the and and the current and and things like that are probably you know more prevalent actually than the than than the water quality. So always like to deal with different things and have those to deal with. It would be boring if there wasn't something to be having to figure out how you deal with it. And interestingly, in Paris, so there was lots of conversations around the water quality, and we know the huge investment that Paris made in trying to improve that. And there are people who are swimming in the Seine this year, so you know, I I think brilliant that that they've done that. But actually, the the bigger issue that came up around the Olympics was the the current and the because of the rainfall and the issues that that then created as well. So, you know, you just gotta you just gotta work with it. Some bits you can control and some bits you can't.

Charlie Reading:

And and water quality is something that's very close to my heart because AI spend a lot of time down in Cornwall. Actually, our our house down in Cornwall is in the same place as surfers against sewage are based, but there is regular sewage let out into this into the sea there, which obviously is a problem if you've got a sea swim. But I'm also going to swim Lake Windermere on Saturday, and I am looking at the water quality going, I'm not quite sure whether this is a sensible thing to do or not. So, what's British triathlon's approach to water quality as a whole and working with other companies like surfers against sewage or other other ones? Is there any is there any role for British triathlon there?

Ruth Daniels:

Abs absolutely. And I think this is down to the role of governing bodies now. One one of the pieces for me is we're there to represent our members and the sport, and actually, our sport is so dependent on the environment in which everybody participates. So we need to have a voice in that. And when I think it was in May last year, we were one of the founding governing bodies in the Clean Water Sport Alliance, and we've had huge success in really raising the conversation around water, water quality. We've engaged with water companies to effectively lobby and to try and create accountability about that. We've been, you know, in the corridors of Westminster again, influencing the regulations and legislation that's sort of been coming out around that as well. We in permitting, we require that event organisers test the water at certain times before an event. And it's you know, it's it's incredibly important. And I think that accountability around the water companies is incredibly important. And if we can get them to actually engage and be positive, and some of them are more, you know, more willing to engage than than others, you know, opening up reservoirs, for example, I think is is a real sort of potential opportunity for the sport to create another avenue for somewhere to swim. But surface against sewage, they're very much the kind of slightly more activist voice that sits within there. But we, you know, we're all kind of collaborating together to make sure that those blue water spaces in the future are fit for purpose and that we can all go and go and swim in them.

Charlie Reading:

Yeah, I mean, I I couldn't I couldn't agree more because I think it's it's such an important subject. And in a in a day and age where it should be getting better and better, it seems to be getting worse and worse, which is really sad. Now, I was lucky enough to bump into you and chat to you at the Burley Multisport weekend, which is run by, you know, it's one of my local races run by paysetters. And and that's a very different format that weekend because there's everything from you know aquabike to duathlon to swim safaris to running, and it's like a whole weekend. There's stuff going on all over the place. In fact, at one stage, we were actually going to do this podcast live at Burley Multisport, and then it the logistics became a nightmare. But what did you learn from seeing an event in that format with all of this other stuff going on? And and do you think that has a place in you know the triathlon world in the future?

Ruth Daniels:

Absolutely. I thought it was brilliant. I love what Paul's doing there at Pace Setter events, and I guess he's sort of a bit of a new event organizer, so he's prepared to innovate and try something a little bit different. It's a stunning venue as a starting point. I think from memory we were lucky the weather was pretty good as well. But for me, bringing that you've got you've got your purest triathletes who who really that's that's what they've done for a long time, or or they love that part of the sport. But I think if we really want to truly appeal to a broader, you know, a broader church of people and also bring people into the sports and keep people into the sport, I think having this broader offer is really important. Ultimately, it's about having fun and it's about having that experience that you kind of go away and you go, oh my god, that was absolutely brilliant. I loved it, I'm gonna do it again, or I'm going to bring my friends to do it, or my family, or you've brought people with you to watch you and they've gone, this looks great, this looks really good fun, or I didn't think I could do it, but actually I could go and do that bit over there, and then maybe I could do that bit over there. So I think it's really important. And, you know, the example that I used with my nephew with the, you know, the London event. So someone who's who's been going, oh, I can't swim, or I'm not very good, you know. And then as soon as he sees the event and he's participated in it, his little competitive element nature comes out and he's like, right, I'm gonna get some swimming lessons and I'm gonna do this next year. And, you know, says, I'm gonna do the T100, I'm not just gonna do a sprint distance as a starting point. So I think how you bring people in is important, and also how you keep people in. So we know we've got an aging population. We know as people get older, you start having a few aches and pains with your knees and your hips and all that kind of thing. But if people love being part of the community, what you don't want is for them to say, Oh, I can't do it anymore because I can't run. You've got an aqua bike, amazing. Or if you've got something going on around an event, then they can participate. And so I think I think I think it's really, really important. And for me, one of my observations, I did my first triathlon about 10 years ago. And when I came back into the sport last year on the other side, I was like, nothing really feels like it's changed very much on the event side. And because I, you know, I'm a big festival goer, I'm a big music fan, but also I've worked within an industry where that entertainment piece is really important, just felt like a world of Tarathlon was a little bit behind the curve and has got so much opportunity to really build out that more experiential kind of fun piece, festival type experience that you know, that it's it's not just one thing. I think it's it's a multiple number of things without detracting from the fact that, you know, Trathon sits at its core.

Claire Fudge:

I I love the idea of festivals. I think there's quite a few, you know, the ultra-running crowd and groups that have these festival weekends, aren't there? I think I've uh tended uh tended a few and spoken at a few in the past, and they they're just such good fun. Yeah. Um, so I can really see how this this kind of idea is going to get lots of different people from different areas. And also, I know we we spoke about it briefly when when we met, actually, but getting more women back into sport, you know, this idea of having a weekend where maybe, you know, if mum's got children, she can actually go and race, you know, whilst there's other things for for people to do. So I just I think it's fantastic. Obviously, now you're working with British triathlon. Is this part of the bigger plan in terms of you mentioned quite a few things at the beginning of, you know, ways to get people back into sport again? Would you say this is one of your big goals? You know, what are the big five goals for the federation?

Ruth Daniels:

It's really interesting. We're literally just at the beginning of a renewed strategy planning process. So if I say that now, then I'm kind of preempting what I think the outcome of it will be. But I think at a high level, given what we're here to do, of course, we're here to grow the sport. And that's about having more people doing the sport, but it's also having a really healthy events infrastructure that sits around the sport, and also that there are, you know, volunteers, technical officials, and that also the commercial business that sits around the sport is also thriving, you know, rather than just hanging on, you know, that there's real, there's real growth that that sits around there. Um for me, relevance and resonance are hugely important. And sport is it's a very competitive landscape now. And how people consume sport, how people do things in their daily lives is very, very different. So for me, making sure that we are absolutely relevant to people, that they understand our sport, and we're not just doing the same thing that we used to do. The, you know, the guys who've done the sport for 40 and 50 years, brilliant. We still want them to be doing it, but we want that teenager who's sitting there looking across at gravel bike racing or skateboarding, going, oh, that looks a little bit cooler, maybe I'll give that a go. We want to have people going, oh, that looks cool because the athlete's cool or because the experience is cool or because it looks fun. So I think that is really, really important. I also think as an organization, you know, we're here to be custodians of the sport, and that's not about just sitting and letting it tick along. For me, that's about really thinking about how you protect it, how you grow it. And that's about also the financial sustainability. We are probably 50% government funded across UK sport and sport England, which is fantastic. And we're really grateful to them and the lottery, you know, the lottery funds for the money that we that we get. But really, we need to be less dependent on that government funding so that we have more revenue coming in. I'm never going to say no to government funding, but that as a percentage of the overall revenue stream, it's smaller because that means it's unrestricted and we can choose how we want to invest it back into the sport, which which is really important, so that we are truly focusing in on the sport rather than sometimes what might be, you know, a kind of a requirement of funding and stuff like that. So yeah, and and then I've touched on it already, but that bringing it more mainstream, there are still some perceptions that need to be broken down. And I think when everybody comes into a triathlon event, or whenever everyone has a go at it, or they come and watch it, they leave with such a positive experience. And it's just how do you spread that love? How do you spread that that kind of feeling and in and enjoyment? And so the role of media, and there's so many different media platforms now, how we engage with those, how we storytell around the sport is really, really important. It's it's a pretty complex landscape for someone who is outside the sport. You know, you've got all these different distances, you've got World Triathlon series, you've got Cups, you've got Conti Cups, you've got PTO, you've got Iron Man. Trying to build a story around that is quite difficult. So I think how we articulate that so that people understand how they can engage with it is important. And then I think the five the final part of it, which is a bit of a general box, is you know, there are a number of things, and when we get on to your question about books, there's a book that I I kind of read a while ago. And I think organizations have a place to kind of help with some of the challenges that society faces. And that's not to detract from what we're here to do as an organization, which is to, you know, be custodians of the sport, but with the challenges around health, with the fractions that we're seeing around society and communities, I really do believe that sport has a role to help, you know, be part of the solution to all of that. So I think for me, figuring out what our role is in that going forward, I think is really exciting. And I think I go back to the it's swim, it's bike, it's run, and then you wrap that in with a community. So you have your three fundamental skills, you've got your community's social engagement and wellness that sits around it. And, you know, the the hub within a community that sits around triathlon, I think could be a really powerful thing.

Claire Fudge:

I think the the funding that you talked about is is well, it's really crucial, but it's really interesting about how you know that might, I guess, evolve in terms of where triathlon's going as well. Um, so I guess I've got two questions with regards to funding. One you've dipped into actually just there, but also at the beginning, around trying to get different people, different backgrounds back in or into triathlon from a funding perspective? How do you see that, both from people who may think you know the barrier to coming into triathlon is because of the expense of a bike or travel or whatever it might be? How are British triathlon kind of looking at that in terms of different communities kind of coming into sport from a financial aspect? Um, but then also from a financial aspect, where do you see kind of those other partnerships kind of coming in to help British triathlon as well? Like what would be your ultimate partnership, I guess, if I'm going to ask you that question.

Ruth Daniels:

Okay. So a couple of kind of thought processes there. So I think there are a number of communities that we we work with. There's, you know, I think one very high profile one is Women in Try. Bianca is the chair of that and has done incredible work in terms of reaching out to different communities to bring women from diverse backgrounds into the sport and quite incredible what she's achieved. And then Nanu from Badu, who's also done some incredible work as well. And there are some people out in the different communities who are really, really well placed to do that. So our role on that is to facilitate, also to look at how we can help with funding. So we funded some coaches, for example, to help women in try and Badu to have some women participating at London T100 actually this year. So we're kind of still very much figuring that out, but that's sport development. You know, that's that's how we try and get more people in. We've also got some really exciting work going on at the moment with David Ross Educational Trust. So David Ross, um, as you sure you know, an incredibly successful entrepreneur, but who pretty much loves triathlon, but also has built these incredible foundations. And what what he would like to see is that the that you don't have to come from private school to become an Olympian, that you know, those schools can create the right environments and for those. We've been doing some really exciting work with some of the academies to build sort of like triathlon academies in in those environments, still very much at the early stages, but I think we're really excited to see where where that might where that might go. And also, you know, in England, Scotland and Wales, you know, eat each of each of those sort of parts of British triathlon are all reaching out to local communities. And in in England, Sport England funds us for what they call priority places, which is working out, which is reaching out to different communities that ordinarily wouldn't be getting supported for participating in sport and everything. It's really important though that what we do actually ultimately leads to people who are able to participate in the in the sport as as well. And I think to your second question around what would my, you know, my ideal partner look like, I think it's an amazing opportunity for an organization to get involved on social impact work in terms of making the sport more accessible to younger people and to and to help reach out to communities that might not be able to do that. You know, the supermarkets, the the banks, everyone who's got those national footprints, for them to be able to reach out into their local communities and to help support around health and wellness, but also getting more kids active. You know, the we know the figures around kids acting in activity are just appalling. And I think everybody has a role to play in how in how you get kids more active with their families as well. So, yeah, any brands who want to get involved, give me a shout.

Charlie Reading:

That sounds like a good pitch if ever I heard one. But what a brilliant opportunity because you know, you're absolutely right. You know, it's such a, you know, we see it in different areas of sport, but it's such a like this is a such a fantastic way for young people to find a community as well as fitness and experience so much. So I can see it being a great opportunity.

Ruth Daniels:

You know, there's there's obviously quite a lot of, you know, the family unit looks very different now. And there are lots of different ways that I think kids and families need to get supported. And the previous structures and environments that maybe used to provide that, they just don't do that anymore, you know, including schools. You know, the amount of sport that kids are able to do in the state sector is pretty appalling. So, how we can try and help widen that is I think really important. It's incumbent on all of us who are working in sport. I think we all have a role to play in that.

Charlie Reading:

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. Now, where we met at that dinner at the RAC Club months and months ago, we also met John Dutton, CEO of British Cycling, who we've also had on the podcast. And we spent quite a lot of time talking to him about what's the culture and values that he's sort of brought into British cycling. So I wanted to ask you about that because kind of federations thrive on shared values and culture. So, what do you see as the culture and values of British triathlon or where do you see that going and under your tenor?

Ruth Daniels:

Great question. And I I listened to John's podcast. He's always great on a podcast, isn't he? And I also remember I think I had a really awful cough at that dinner as well. So there we go. I I'm if in nothing but consistence. For me, it's it's really interesting. I've worked in lots and lots of different environments, and I think culture is a really hard thing to kind of put your put your arms around sometimes. It's that intangible piece that you kind of go, I really loved working there because this is how I felt, and or I really didn't like it there because of the behaviours and and everything. For me, having that really clear purpose as an organization is absolutely the foundation of what we what we need. We're actually doing some work around that at the at the moment. And it's just kind of just kind of going back and going, you know, what are you all here for? What are we all here to do? Because connecting to that purpose is really important to be able to build around that. For me, of course, I want you know, Bridge Triath wants to be a place that people love to come into work and they, you know, they've got good, good kind of colleagues and everything. But for me, about the culture will drive what we're able to achieve as an organization. And there's a lot of work, you know, words around high performing teams in the world of sport as you as you would, you know, envisage. And but I think that can be not necessarily consistent across all the different organizations. High performing might be in one part of the organization, might be in a in a different part of the organization, but aligning everyone behind a really clear purpose, but also having that pace and resilience and agility and preparedness to sort of test and learn, not to be a little bri a little bit brave in terms of what you're doing and to move the organization forward, I think is really important and to create the right framework that people feel that they can do that, that they're not, you know, that it's it's not a bad thing if they make a mistake or if they don't get something right, that it can be open and transparent, and that everyone is is able to be themselves at work and with their colleagues. Clearly, building a trusted environment is really, really important. And and that that doesn't happen overnight. And when you are leading an organization through change, which is definitely what I have been doing, I think you you can see how people react through that change curve. But you know, you've got your group of people who are rushing off and going, This is amazing, this is what I've been waiting for. I can't wait to get engaged with technology, or I can't wait to look at that really great idea that we've gotten over there. And then you've got other people like, oh, it's a little bit scary, and oh, I'm out of my comfort zone, and oh, I'm not quite sure what this means to me and where it's going to take take me. So I think how you bring people on that journey is really important. Some people will embrace it, other people won't. And that is all part of the natural evolution of an organization. But it's bringing people with you that I think is really important. And that curiosity and sort of entrepreneurial spirit. And I know you're going to ask me about my kind of world outside of sport and how that's maybe in informed some of my sort of thinking. But I think I personally I've always had this real fear of becoming pedestrian and just, you know, becoming a little bit boring and you know, not sort of not being interested in doing anything and having a sort of a real hunger to drive something forward. And I think that's really important when you are trying to drive an organization forward. And I think if you look at brands that have waned, you know, have been successful and it's waned and ebbed and everything like that, it's almost like you get to a stage and you go, oh, I've done it now, but you can never take your foot off the pedal. You need to be constantly thinking about what's next and and how, yes, this is good, but how can it be better? And I know that can be quite tough for people because for some people, good enough is good enough. But I think if you really want to move to a high-performing mindset, you do have to be constantly thinking about how you move on.

Charlie Reading:

Yeah, no, brilliant. Sort of leads me nicely onto your your your sort of uh experience from the world of the legal world and also the world of of Super Dry. So, what do you think that previous experience brings? You know, what does that give you in in performing the role as CEO of British Triathlon? And and I suppose another way of asking that is, you know, if we're looking back from, you know, looking back 20 years from now, what's the legacy that you've created as a result of that at British Triathlon?

Ruth Daniels:

Well, I saw the 20 years from now, I was thinking, crikey, that'll be I and I thought, God, I'm gonna be so old then. So I think I'll answer that bit first. Clearly, I want to leave it in a better place than than when I arrived. And that's not because it wasn't in a good place, but it's about that continuous improvement and wanting to take the organization forward. But it's also about making sure that we are relevant and resonating for the future of the sport and that it's set up for fit for the future. I think if you think about next year and the year after, you're not really doing your job. I think you do have to think about in five years' time, what does it look like? In 10 years' time, what it what does it look like? I mean, you know, clearly there's going to be so many people who are doing triathlon and it's spoken about in lots of different ways. And everybody's gonna know who the triathletes are around the world. And, you know, but there's lots lots of things that I think can happen around the sport as well, not just on that performance side, because it's how it translates into what's happening in communities and the grassroots side of things as well. Um in France, triathlon is on the school curriculum. I would love triathlon to be on the school curriculum. I mean, that would be transformative, wouldn't it? Rather than it being that unique sport that only maybe you do at Millfield or or somewhere like that. So that's that's kind of the the the sort of the thought process on that. In terms of my experience, I've I have worked in so many different types of environments. I've worked in startups, I've worked in scaling businesses, I've worked around businesses that are in turnarounds, I've worked in businesses that are private equity backs, I've worked in businesses that have been high growth environments. I've also worked at Super Dry in a very distressed environment as well. And all of those different environments teach you so many different things about what can happen to an organization, and you just take bits from those environments and you take bits from the people that you've worked with as well. The you know, well, if I was CEO, I wouldn't want to behave like that, or if I was CEO, that's a great kind of style that I really like, or I really loved how that person did those different things. And I've worked in different industries as well. So, yes, I spent a long time in my career in the legal profession, but I worked in private practice, but also in a number of other different organizations, and I had very global roles. So I had teams sitting around the world, and what that has taught me is around that cultural piece that sits around organizations, which, although British triathon is obviously Britain, what I've learned is on the international stage that it's a really useful tool to have, you know, that I've I've worked with people over in America, in Asia, in the Middle East, and that cultural awareness is really, really important. Super Dry, I had the pleasure of working with Julian Dunkerton. So Julian Dunkerton founded Super Dry, he's one of the founders of Super Dry. And Super Dry, when it was founded, was was the fastest growing fashion brand, and it grew to 1.8 billion in a very short, very short space of time. And it then fell from fell from grace as everyone saw it, it became a public company, and then it became mainstream. David Beckham was very sort of influential in the success of the brand before influencers were were influencers. Julian came back into the business. I was part of the new management team to join there. I joined the business in turnaround just before COVID, which was a really tough gig to walk into, in particular in the role that I was, I was I was in. But when you work with someone who has got such a vested interest in that organization and who has got it literally running through his blood like a stick of like a stick of rock, you really see someone who fights and cares for what they believe in and how they can think differently and pivot. And I'm fortunate to have worked with a number of entrepreneurs, and there is an insight and a behavior that they bring that is very different to a very corporate type of CEO. And you learn so much from that in terms of how you really dig deep or think differently. Yeah, so I I've taken so many different different things from that. Resilience also being one of the key elements, uh, I would say as well.

Claire Fudge:

I I've learned a lot more than I thought I knew about you in terms of all the different places that you've that you've worked. And like, yeah, amazing how that can all come together and an impact on what you're doing with British Triathlon. I want to go back to something that you mentioned actually right at the very beginning. You mentioned T100 a couple of times and partnerships and British Triathlon being on the stage, you know, just once in four years. How do you foresee, if if you foresee that, how do you foresee British Triathlon potentially sort of working alongside some of these much bigger brands, you know, like you know, T100, Super Tri, Iron Man. Is that where you're thinking how British Triathlon can kind of fit into that uh space somehow?

Ruth Daniels:

Yeah, so I think I mean it's quite interesting because major events, when we've held major events in the UK before, um obviously we've been funded by UK Sport, but British triathlon has done the delivery of those events itself. It means that all of the risk sits with the organization. It also means that the the kind of the funding and everything sits with the organization and the whole risk sits around it. I've done some work, we we've kind of been reviewing our major event strategy, and it's really clear to me that there's a different operating model that we need to have going forward around major events. We don't have to do everything, but if we can find the right people to partner with who can deliver those events and actually are maybe better placed to help raise the profile of the sport with us sort of working alongside them. There are a number of other really amazing event organizers in, you know, in this country as well, who actually are perfectly capable of delivering, you know, World Cups, Conti Cups, as well as a World Championship series. So I would envisage working more with those who are delivering great event experiences going forward.

Charlie Reading:

Brilliant. And you also mentioned right at the start about gender equality and and trying to bring more females into sport. How is British triathlon doing that? But also, how important do you think diversity of thinking is in in business as well as kind of equality in sport?

Ruth Daniels:

Yeah. So start with the first question. So we definitely want more women doing triathlon. We want more of everybody doing triathlon. But if you look at the stats of women participating in triathlon, right at the lower end, there's more women than than men who participate. And then as you gradually go up, and it's linked to the distances and the time taken to train and and also the experience I think that people have around events, then you end up with a shift that probably moves to about 35% women to 65% men participating. So I see that as real opportunity that sits around the sport. There's a number of organizations like Sophie Powell at Shoe Races and also Bianca Women in Try, who've done some great work on saying to event organizers. They've done research, but also saying to event organizers, if you do these things, then your event will become more accessible to women and they will more likely participate and that will translate into more revenue for you. So there's a social impact element, but there is a there is a business reason why you would want to have more women participating in your sport. And also, you know, what I've said to people is women spend money. So women go shopping and they spend money. And actually, if you want to have a bit of that, you know, that kind of purse, then you need to kind of get get them involved in the in the sport as well. So it's really, it's really important. But it's equally important that we have, as I say, as many people from lots of different backgrounds being able to participate in the sport as well. We did a campaign earlier on in the year, which Vicki Hollands, as you know, is our double Olympian and you know, hugely successful triathlete who's just announced her retirement. Um, she came back from pregnancy and she finished fourth last year in the World Championship series and won the European um championship event in Vichy, which was amazing. She's an incredible spokesperson for the sport, but also advocating for women and has been very instrumental in having a pregnancy policy for women on the elite side of things coming back into the sport as well. So there's there's lots of initiatives that are happening, definitely more that we can we can do. And I want our female athletes to have more of a profile and to have more of a voice on that as well. It's really, really important. Um, in terms of how diversity of thought feeds into um better business decisions, I mean, this is something I've been banging a drum on this for God knows how long. The you know, the McKinsey study that comes out every year is very well versed in articulating the when the perform the businesses that have more diverse thinking and in and decision making, they perform better. There is an actual, you know, real link to better performing businesses that that sit there. It's really important. Being in a room where there's an echo chamber or there's group think just does not really bring in the right thought processes, consider all of the right stakeholders, and actually enable you to move move things on. I've been in environments where where that exists and it's not helpful to try and move anything on. You need to make sure you've got the right voices in the room representing the right people, but also being able to challenge and be able to bring different thinking around the table. Those different perspectives are really, really important. So yeah, absolutely key.

Claire Fudge:

Was that the summary? Women are key. I think that's what you came to surmise. Charlie's not speaking, so I'll I'll go for it. You're a triathlete yourself. Can you share a story with us? You know, maybe a story that is that most stands out for you. That could be something that was particularly memorable because it was such a horrendous day, or it could be like one of your best supporting achievements. And has your background in doing triathlon actually influenced how you now think and work with the athletes now?

Ruth Daniels:

Yeah, I think I think it would be very generous of me to say it's influenced how I work with the athletes. I think the performance guys would kill kill me if I said that that was anything to do there. So I did triathlon because I I've always been a reasonably good swimmer and I've always quite fancied the idea of doing one. But running has been my nemesis. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a runner. I I, you know, was at school where they never really taught you how to run. And so if you weren't fast, then that was it. You were left by the by the wayside. So I just got to an age and I just thought, right, what's my next challenge? I like to have a challenge. And I had some time to sort of think about it. Very fortunate to live in the Cotswolds. Lots of people do triathlons around here. So I thought, right, I'm in the perfect environment to do a triathlon. And and I trained for it and I did it with some friends locally, and that sense of achievement when I'd done it was incredible. And also, as you guys know, when you say to someone you've done a triathlon, everyone's like, oh my god, that's amazing. And we all know, yes, it's amazing, but we all know that most people could do one if they put their mind to it, and it's not that, not that incredible. But I have used triathlon as a way to also raise money for various causes. And I think that to me has been it's been a motivator, but it's also something, as well as your personal achievement and doing that challenge, it's also been about I've actually raised some money to help support, for example, Break Roman Street or you know, another charity which related to something personal that had happened to one of my friends. So I think those are the moments that uh really care. And my mother, who, you know, she's no longer with us, but I remember when I'd done my first triathlon and then she went into a care home and she just kept on telling everyone that I'd I don't know, the the length of the triathlon kept on getting longer, and I kept on having done more and done faster and stuff like that was great. And then I think the other piece for me, my partners took this photograph of me. And I I kind of I go backwards when I do a triathlon. So I'm not too bad on the swim, my bike's all right, but then I start going backwards in the run effectively. And so I did London a few years ago, and he got me, he got a picture of me overtaking someone. I would say that the chap I was overtaking was probably about 90, but I was like, I'm overtaking someone. This is great.

Charlie Reading:

I I think what you've just described though sums up why triathlon is so special, isn't it? Is it's that feeling of achievement. The person that crosses the finish line is never the same as the person that at the crossed the start line, but also that ability to use it for good and to go beyond your own achievement, but to raise money for other things. And I love it, you're absolutely right. Most people could do a triathlon. I remember interviewing Bob Babbitt and him saying about it was some story about this guy that just done his first ever sprint triathlon. And then somebody mentioned Iron Man. He said, Yeah, it's basically exactly the same as what I've just done, maybe a little bit longer, but yeah, it all just gets rolled into one, doesn't it?

Ruth Daniels:

I mean, I see 100 this year. I was I was hanging around now near the British triathlon stand, and there was this guy there, and he was sat in one of our tech chairs. And I was just like, you know, you're right. He said, Yeah, I've just done it. He said, Had a new hit last year, didn't think I'd do one of these again. It's like how amazing. But that personal challenge and that individual achievement is something that really runs deep, I think, across across the sport. And I think the other piece for me, it's really important. Last year, when I did, you know, got my role at British triathlon, I thought, right, I've got I really need to be doing a triathlon this year. And I wasn't, and I had this got this going on, and I had loads of travel. I thought, right, I'm gonna do Blenheim. And I got my niece to do it with me, and I got my stepdaughter to do it with me. And they've both got into and so that inspiration piece is is kind of really important as well, and showing it's it's possible. I think that activity as you get older is is so important. So yeah, it's lots lots of different reasons why you can do it, and what and lots of different things that you can gain from it as well, I think.

Charlie Reading:

Yeah, yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. And earlier on, you alluded to the fact that I was going to ask you about books. So you kept a particular book, you kept it from us. So, what books have you found helpful on your journey? Whether it's to do with sport, whether it's to do with business, what books do you find yourself recommending to other people?

Ruth Daniels:

Yeah, I increasingly that as I get older, I forget the names of the books and the authors of those books as well. So it's been actually a good, a good memory job for me as well. I mean, I've I've read so many books over the years and yeah, met read lots of management kind of pieces, but I kind of find that I don't necessarily take too much away if it's a bit too bit too corporate. The book that I referred to, which is called The Activist Leader, and it it sort of talks about the need for a new mindset doing doing business, and it talks about what I alluded to earlier about all of the challenges that society is facing into the increasing role of organizations to play in having a voice and helping to be part of the solution rather than just sitting by the wayside as well. And I think if anyone's listening to this podcast who's worked with me over the last 18 months, they know that I like a little bit of a disruption in the room and happy to sort of challenge the status quo and the complacency piece is something that I find quite frustrating. But I think really how we look at things and think through things differently is really, really important. So I I read it a couple of years ago. I I sort of took quite away from that and dusted it off when I sort of started, started last year. I mean, you know, legacy is is a great book, isn't it? And there's so many elements you can you can draw from that in terms of culture and team building and legacy and and things like that. But I very much love Linda LePlant. So I love a murder, I love a detective story, and maybe that's the lawyer in me coming coming out, and John Grisham. I've probably read all of those books just because you don't really have to think too hard and you just just read them. Barack Obama's autobiography was pretty special, and Nelson Mandela, Long Walks of Freedom, really, really powerful. And I am Pilgrim, I think, is one of the most beautiful books that I've that I've ever read as well. So quite quite a few. But there's one book, and I've actually got it sat by me here now, and it was a book that I had put together from for my father in the last few years of his life. So my my father was born in Burma, um, so I'm I'm mixed race, and he never spoke about his kind of childhood and his experiences of being in Burma when he when he was a child, because he was he was there when the Japanese invaded, and so he became a child of war, a refugee as in Burma, and sort of for four or five years of his life, they were kind of lost in that in that in that world. He never spoke to us as a family on that growing up, never referenced it. And it it happens to quite a lot of first generation immigrants who come over because they're normally leaving something quite quite negative. And towards the end of my mum and dad's life, I was I had this book process going with my mum, and I just sort of said to Dad, Do you, you know, do you want to do a story of your life? And he, to my amazement, said, Yes, I do. So it was quite incredible listening to him talking to the lady who did the, she was a journalist, stroke historian, and managed to pull this amazing story out. And it's and it's called From Burma to Britain. And there are so many things that I have taken from it in terms of being able to understand my father, but understand the culture in which he grew up, which then translated into how I was brought up, which again, growing up in a mixed kind of mixed race household can be quite challenging. And also, it can also challenge your identity as well. And especially when I was growing up in the 70s, and with, you know, my brother and I definitely were, you know, recipients of racist abuse and everything growing up as well. And actually, it helped frame some of that as as well. But how he moved from his childhood to then coming out of the war, and he had decided he wants to be a doctor because of some engagements he'd had with people during the war, to then catch up on his education, to then qualify as a doctor, and then come over to Britain and to do what he did, just the resilience and the focus and all of those things are quite incredible, and the forgiveness that sat with him as well as a human being. So that is a book that I draw quite a lot of inspiration from.

Charlie Reading:

I can see it, how inspiring it is for you, just seeing you talk about it. But what's what's really fascinating is we our last guest was Sean Conway, the amazing endurance adventurer that's done 105 Iron Man's in 105 days, swam from Landsend to John of Ghost, all of these crazy stuff. And we were talking at the end of the episode with him about the next book he's written, writing. He's written eight books, but he's writing a book that's for his grandchildren, telling the stories of what his life was like when he was growing up, because he says, you know, otherwise these stories will get lost. Now you've just told the opposite end of what that you've just told it from the child's point of view, going, This is unbelievable. You know, you've just listed a whole load of books which were really brilliant and really helpful, but you never showed the emotion that you could you got. Think that's amazing. And and I I've said to so many people over the years, you should write your own book because of what it leaves by. Behind for other generations. It's absolutely brilliant. And that leads me nicely on to the final piece of the podcast, which is where we get the last guest to ask the next guest a question without knowing who that is going to be. Obviously, I've just mentioned it was Sean Conway, and I think Claire has got Sean's question lined up.

Claire Fudge:

So do you think the advancement of AI will increase or decrease the amount of people participating in endurance sports?

Ruth Daniels:

Interesting question. Fortunately, I love technology and I'm all about how we can embrace it both in our sport or more broadly. I think it's going to be something that is going to sit around the sport, which ultimately should probably drive more people doing the sport. I think the way that it's is going to be able to enhance training and how people engage around the sport, but also how AI as I as it pushes events out, enables people to see better where they could do an event, or there's going to be more targeted around their events and everything as well. I think is is going to be there. I would say that it's going to sit alongside everything else that's happening around the sport. It's not on its own going to be driving, be driving that.

Charlie Reading:

I think it's a really interesting question. So when he sent me that question, I was like, well, what do you think, Sean? Because I think it's a fascinating question. I agree. I think so. I already have building my training program. But where I it took me as well was if AI frees up more time away from work, because AI does more of our work, we get more leisure time and therefore more opportunity to do triathlon.

Ruth Daniels:

Yeah, I love thinking. Although in the world, all I see is creating more work, you know, the volume of emails that we know. Now we don't just have emails, we have WhatsApp groups, we have loads of messages coming in from lots of different platforms and everything. So is it something? Is it just going to load more information into our world that means that we we we can't go off and do our training and everything? Or is AI going to be doing my job so I can be sitting there going, next time, Charlie, I've done 10 triathlons because I've had so much time to be able to train for them and I'm feeling really good about where I'm at?

Charlie Reading:

I I I think those that embrace it will get more of their time back. But equally, will it be like there's already talk about how people are thinking less because Chat GPT can do their thinking? So will that be a detriment, you know, will they spend more time watching TV and films because they don't have to do that. Well, I don't know.

Ruth Daniels:

That is that is a really relevant conversation. But I think the the the use of AI on its own, there is that human intervention that I think is still needed, and it's how it enhances what we do as well. But I I've noticed that that lack of ability to think. We were talking about it in the context of CVs the other day, in terms of how do you really identify, you know, before people would write in a letter, they send in a CV, and you could distinguish between people who've got good writing skills or they research the interview. Now, if everyone's shoving everything into AI, then you're ending up with a pretty ubiquitous set of applications or CVs to look at. So, how does that evolve? How you then assess the people who are applying for the jobs? Do you have a different process to what you used to normally have? And how do you distinguish between it as well? So that human element is really important. The bit that I think is quite interesting is I don't know whether you saw the robotic Olympics that were in China a few weeks ago. That scared the living daylight out of me when I saw the click where the robot pushed a man down on the ground. And I don't know whether that's because he just got in the way or whether he was actually being really competitive and just getting someone out of his way. I was thinking, is that robot thinking now?

Claire Fudge:

Or did they all win?

Ruth Daniels:

Yeah.

Claire Fudge:

All the robots were.

Ruth Daniels:

Quite a lot of them broke, you know, there was pictures of them breaking down, falling over, people coming and scooping them up, but that there were some that were properly racing around as well.

Charlie Reading:

I do think it's Claire, where are your thoughts on does AI lead to more or less traveling?

Claire Fudge:

I can see both sides. One of my as you were talking, I was thinking there are so many people still since COVID that are still in the what you know, the AI virtual world of racing training. I was just speaking to a couple of people last week, and a lot more people are not going out cycling. They go, Oh, yeah, but I'm just on, you know, you know, on Zwift in in the evening or whatever, or at the weekend. So I think there's always also that side. Like people really enjoyed those challenges and races, you know, during COVID that they could do on AI. So yeah.

Charlie Reading:

And and and when Zwift becomes virtual reality, when you're with when you've got a headset on and you can see the cyclists around you, again, maybe who knows? I don't know whether that is more trathlon or less trathlon, but yeah, it's it's yeah.

Ruth Daniels:

Well, it's a bit like electric bike. So New Zealand, they in one of their mass participation events, they they said if you've got an electric bike, you can bring it along. Because obviously they were trying to improve accessibility. You can imagine how the purest core of the sport reacted reacted to to that piece.

Charlie Reading:

So well, there I mean there, yeah, but that but there's there's there's now mountain bike racing. We talked about with Tracy Mosley about mountain bike racing with an e-bike. So yeah, it's just another equivalent of the aqua bike, isn't it? It's another variation. But um Ruth, it's been absolutely fascinating chatting to you. Really like like the Paris was an amazing experience from a triathlon point of view. What a great start you got off to. If LA lives up to that, then we'll we'll all be extremely happy, I think. But also, I think just supporting the the community of triathlon, bringing more and more people in, making it more accessible, more like you know, like the Burley multi-sport weekend that we talked about, and making it like a proper experience where it brings the community together. I think that's where the future is. And and it's amazing to hear that that's what you've got in my info British triathlon. So thank you very much and and keep up the great work.

Ruth Daniels:

Absolutely. Thank you very much for having me. I've very much enjoyed it.

Charlie Reading:

So, what did you make of the chat with Ruth Daniels from British Triathlon?

Claire Fudge:

Well, it's it's really exciting, actually, to you know, obviously it's both of our sport in terms of background, and it's really interesting to hear, you know, the potential of where she's going and thinking in terms of the British triathlon. And it's also interesting to like hear her recognize that the sport needs a shakeup in terms of different types of people coming back into the sport or coming into the sport and how they're going to do that. Because it sounds like a actually a big challenge in terms of you know, commercial sponsorship or you know, having partnerships set up, the idea of evolving involving different communities and bringing um people from different social backgrounds in. I love the idea. It's it seems like a huge challenge in terms of bringing all these parts in.

Charlie Reading:

Well, I mean, I agree. So when I was at where so we had a conversation at Burley Multisport Weekend with Paul from Pace Setters, Ruth, and and I was just I'd introduced them, so I was kind of there. And Paul was like, it's so, you know, we've put on this great event, it's over the whole weekend. There's so many people, so many different events. And getting getting people just to turn up and sell food here is really difficult. He said, you know, we we had a number of stands that people they'd said they were turning up, a glorious sunny weekend, and then they just didn't even turn up what the week, you know, just didn't show. And I think so. One of the things that that like that British triathlon could be doing is saying, well, look, we can bring, we can be the conversation with the bigger partner, and then then that happens across a multitude of triathlons that are organized by lots of different race organizers. So I think that there's a great role for that because I think the festival vibe is such a cool way to embrace triathlon or ultra running or anything along those lines. I think I was chatting to somebody that went to the one, which whose name escapes me at the moment, which was a running festival. She just couldn't couldn't speak highly enough of it. And I think that's that's such a cool, cool way of doing endurance sport, isn't it? Bringing the community together.

Claire Fudge:

And I think bringing that, you know, she talked about, you know, trying to get more women, you know, into sport, which is a big problem in any sport you look at, certain age, you kind of lose a whole load of women. And so I love that idea of one, you know, that she's really engaging with different groups, isn't she, in terms of trying to get women kind of into triathlon. But also that idea of those events, I think is brilliant because you can come come along, there's lots of things if you've got children for them to be doing that you can go and do something. Um, so a really great idea.

Charlie Reading:

And the and the I was sorry, I was gonna say, just to on that same subject, that what she's what she believes and is trying to bring into the boardroom based on that same learning is you know, actually, the bit the boardroom is a better place when we have much more diversity of thinking as opposed to groupthink, where you know, everyone on the board is from the same background, from the same gender, etc. etc. So I think that's really powerful from a business point of view as well. But sorry, you were gonna say something else.

Claire Fudge:

I can't remember what I was gonna say, but I will go on to something else.

Charlie Reading:

Um so what else did you learn?

Claire Fudge:

Yeah, I I think it's always really interesting, isn't it, when you hear where people have come from in terms of backgrounds, sport, but also, you know, their experience in different companies. And, you know, although I'd done some research before speaking to it, actually, there was a wealth of things that she's done, different, you know, businesses she's worked in, her backgrounds. And I think that's going to be really interesting to kind of see that in a few times taking shape in terms of her background and experience and what that brings to triathlon, like how does it shape it? You know, because she was talking about shaking things up a little bit within within the sport. And and yeah, making it making it more commercial, more fun, more viewed. So I I think I think it's a huge challenge, but I think, you know, I think it's going to really bring triathlon, hopefully, to where it needs to be.

Charlie Reading:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. The other thing that I took from this was the most animated, the most excited, the most emotional she got was when she talked about the book that was written about her father. I think that really stood out to me. And I and I think so. When I was writing my first book, I said, if nobody reads this except my children or my grandchildren, it will have been worth all the effort. And it took me three years. It, you know, it my later books took me a fraction of that time. But it is such a valuable exercise, not just from a business point of view, not just from your children's point, but like, I know we spoke to Sean Conway about this as well, but it's just really brilliant to see of all those amazing books she'd read, the one that clearly made her far more emotional, made far greater impact was the one about her family. And and and that's why it's so brilliant for for you guys that are listening to to write a book that can get down some of those stories. Because yes, you can use it in business in a fantastic way. You know, it positions you as the expert, it's a great way of you getting it, getting you in the media, it's something you can give away to in exchange for marketing to somebody. It's all of those great reasons why writing a book. But the other reason which we don't really talk about so much is this legacy that it passes on, that those stories that are woven into that book will be really valuable to your children, your grandchildren, and every generation thereafter. So I think that that was just a brilliant takeaway for me. I love I loved listening to her talk about that book from Burma to Britain. Any final takeaways with regards to you know any anything that Ruth talked about, really?

Claire Fudge:

I think watch this space in terms of from now until LA. I I think we're gonna see a lot more happening in the community. And I'd love to see this side developing out in terms of the health, like health and how they're gonna bring triathlon, you know, working with schools, working with communities. Like I think we're gonna see see this emerging over the next, you know, over the next few years.

Charlie Reading:

Yeah, I agree. And and also I think the so the last thing for me was how she has taken the her learning from all of those different corporate roles. And you could see when we started talking about culture, values, legacy, all of that sort of stuff. She's like, this is stuff we're working on now. Because I suppose she came into this role. She's like, right, we've just got to focus everything on Paris. And now we can focus on the kind of my corporate experience and saying, right, this is how we craft and document and clarify what our culture is and what our values are and what the purpose is. So I think that's really interesting that she's going through that. And again, that's a great lesson that any business owner can learn. It's really powerful once everyone knows what it means to be a part of that organization. So really fascinating chat with Ruth Daniels. And for everyone at home, keep on training.