Want to Stay Hopeful in the Ongoing Fight for Repro? These Leaders Share Their Inspiration

This week, we are doing things a little differently! We hear from advocates, medical providers, leaders, and researchers, who tell us about their strategies, reflections, hopes, and joys during the ongoing fight for sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice.

Guests featured in this episode include: 

Jennie Wetter, Director of rePROs Fight Back

Dr. Monica McLemore, Professor of Child, Family, and Population Health Nursing at the University of Washington and Director of the Manning Price Spratlen Center for Anti-Racism and Equity in Nursing

Dr. Diane Horvath, OB/GYN and Co-Founder and Chief Medical Officer at Partners of Abortion Care

Beirne Roose-Snyder, Senior Policy Fellow at the Council for Global Equality

Greer Donley, Associate Professor with a reproductive rights focus at University of Pittsburgh Law School

Rev. Katey Zeh, CEO for the Religious Community for Reproductive Choice

Tarah Demant, National Director of Programs at Amnesty International 

For more information, check out Relationscapes: https://www.relationscapes.org/

Transcript

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Speaker 1 1:27

Welcome to Repro Fight Back a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health rights and justice. Hi, re pros. How's everybody doing? I'm your host Jenny Wetter , and my pronouns are she her. So y'all, if you are like me and have been feeling like, you know, this last Supreme Court session was a bit of an interminable slog. Like things are just like feeling ugh right now. And you know, the last episodes of the podcast were bit of bummers talking about the Supreme Court term that maybe we should do a bit of a lighter episode. So I reached out to a bunch of wonderful past guests of the podcast and asked them all to send me in voice memos of what is giving them hope right now and what or what is bringing them joy. And y'all, I am so grateful to everybody who responded like y'all. I gave them very short notice for this episode idea. And I am so grateful to all of the amazing people who responded and, and shared their voice memo of what is giving them hope right now. And since it's only fair that I share mine as well , uh, let's start there. So, like I said, things feel a little bleak at the moment, but there are places where I do see hope, and I think I've talked about this one for sure before, but when I look at the work that abortion funds are doing or people who work at clinics or doctors at clinics, the work they are doing day in and day out to make sure that people are getting the care they need as many people as possible, working around the law as helping fund people to get to care, drive people to care, like just doing all they can to make sure as many people as possible are able to access abortion care. That just gives me so much hope to see these communities coming together and doing the work. You know, whether that's people who are donating to abortion funds, the clinic escorts who stand outside the clinics to make sure that people's experiences going in or as you know, easy as possible if there are protesters, the doctors who are there day in and day out, getting death threats like the clinic workers who are having to turn people away or working with them to try to get them access at a different place if they're unable to help them. Like all of that work and all of that labor that is being done. I , I just, it gives me so much hope. Yeah, just so much hope. The next place that I look that it just has given me a ton of hope are all of the amazing abortion storytellers that have been coming out loud and proud and, and telling their stories of accessing care. There is so much stigma in the world around abortion that when you have people going out and telling their stories, it breaks down that stigma every day. And it is such necessary work and it is such emotional labor from these people to have to like , go out and explain and tell your story of your personal healthcare decisions. It shouldn't need to happen. But I'm so grateful for all of the people who are doing that work and seeing more and more people coming out and sharing their stories gives me hope that we are fighting back that stigma and making sure that people understand that abortion is healthcare and hopefully that will lead the charge to make it easier to access abortion everywhere. So just I, that gives me so much hope every time I hear somebody sharing their story. So I'm so grateful for all of their work they're doing. And again, like similar, the work we testify is doing to help abortion storytellers to make sure they are getting out there and that you're getting representative stories that are capturing the full range of people who are getting abortions. And we're not just hearing narrow specific stories. So yeah, storytellers and we testify. They're just giving me so much hope. Also feeling a lot of hope, seeing all of the ballot initiatives. Abortions gonna be on the ballot in so many states this fall. And what we have seen is that when abortion is on the ballot, we win. It is. So again, just gives me so much hope to see all of these people in states fighting back to vote for their rights. And , uh, again, so much hope to see that work being done on the ground to make that work happen, to collect those signatures, to get those ballot initiatives happening. There's just so much energy happening. And seeing all of that gives me so much hope that we will get there every day. I also just, I get so much energy and hope and joy often from all of the amazing people I work with every day. So that includes the people I work with in my office that includes all of the amazing people I work with in coalition. Many of whom you've heard on the podcast, a lot of whom you haven't. But I have such amazing colleagues that I get to the joy to work with every day. And they are doing the work to fight for sexual and reproductive health and rights at home and overseas. And I get so much energy and hope from working with them every day . And I am so grateful for that opportunity. And the thing that really gives me so much energy right now, and honestly it has for a number of years, is all of the just fantastic people. I am lucky enough to interview on the podcast. I, I just, every day I feel so grateful that I get to do this podcast and talk to so many wonderful people about the work they are doing and share their expertise. Like utterly amazing. How did I get so lucky to have so many people come on here and talk about the work they are doing and so many important issues, everything that is related to sexual and reproductive health rights and justice. I just feel so grateful that I have so many wonderful people come on to talk to y'all and people that I maybe never would've talked to otherwise, like so lucky. Um, and it gives me hope that people say yes. Like right now, you know, this episode I decided that I, I decided what we were gonna do for next week, kind of last minute , uh, or for this week's episode, kinda last minute. And I just like sent out a bunch of emails and honestly figured it was a long shot for getting people to, to record a short voice , voice memo for this. But the people who were able to turn around so fast and shoot me a voice memo, like it gives me so much hope and gratitude for all of these people who were invested, who wanted to make sure that none of us are losing hope in this fight. 'cause while it may feel bleak, there is hope out there and there is work being done. And I, I am so grateful that I get to share all of their hope with you all too, to see that as bleak as things may feel, and honestly, I get it. I forget at times and I get subsumed by the day to day and all of those things, but there is so much hope out there for things that are happening. And I, I , again, I'm just so grateful for everybody who came together so quickly to share their hope with y'all. Okay, so I said hope or joy. So let's share a little bit of the joy. So I grew up, I , I've talked about this in, in rural Wisconsin. So we had a huge garden and as much as I , uh, definitely felt like I did not have joy <laugh> working in the garden, it was not my happy place. You know, being dragged outta bed early on the weekend to work in this ginormous garden. Yeah, sorry mom, I was not my joy, but I really enjoyed the fruits of all the labor, right? So summer just makes me think of all of that wonderful bounty of the things we got out of the garden, whether that is fresh, sweet corn or like tomatoes and having BLTs, ugh . Anyway, I'm getting ready to go visit my mom next month and thinking through all of the wonderful things I wanna make sure to get, whether that's Wisconsin Sweet Corn or you know, going to the roadside stands and, and getting all of the fresh produce, bringing me so much joy. I think I said this last week on the podcast, maybe not, I can't remember Justin and I may have talked about it after we quit recording, but like stone fruit season. So like I'm getting ready for like peaches and nectarines. I've been like inhaling all of the cherries. Like I bringing me so much joy, such a little thing. But like summer fruit and vegetables, there's nothing like it. Okay, the last thing I'll share that is bringing me joy. So right before my dad died, my mom and dad were starting to plan a trip going to like, around Scotland and, and England and a couple other places. And one of the things my mom asked me when I was home for his funeral is if I would be interested in , in going on that trip with her. 'cause she still really wanted to go. So , uh, now we have finally gotten it together. We are booking that trip for next year. And so that is bringing me so much joy that we are going on this trip that her and my dad were planning that he was never able to go on. So that is making my heart happy and bringing me joy to have this long trip to look forward to next year. So I'm so excited. Okay, so those are the things that are bringing me hope and joy right now. I am so excited to turn the podcast over to so many amazing, wonderful people to share with you what is bringing them hope right now. Uh, so enjoy.

Speaker 2 11:42

Hey y'all, this is Dr. Monica Rose Macklemore. I use she and her pronouns and I'm really excited to record this , uh, short voice note on what's bringing me hope and what's bringing me joy around , uh, repo's fight bet. And I have to tell you, I, this may not be obvious to many people, but I'm gonna need more folks to understand. We can actually outsmart evil. We can outsmart racism, misogyny, patriarchy, homophobia, transphobia, we that it actually can be outsmarted. That is a thing. But what people don't understand is it requires a collective wisdom. And quite frankly, you know, it doesn't matter if we have , uh, fear or frustration or anger or all of it , all of those emotions are , are legitimate and need to be affirmed, but they're not helpful in outsmarting the things that we need to outsmart. So I am fully planning to and expect to not only protect as many people as possible as I can in this current moment, but I'm also in a position to fight. And in my mind, fighting is more about outsmarting the people who are trying to cause harm to communities and to force us to assimilate and or conform to some cis hetero Christian patriarchy thing that that's not gonna happen on my watch. So for those of you who are experiencing grief, frustration, anger, fear, whatever it is, I'm gonna need you to manage your emotions because we need your brilliance because collectively we can outsmart all of this. I hope y'all are doing well. I hope you're having a good summer. Stay cool. And please understand histories on our side. And there is a creativity we can unleash to change our world and change our future. And more people need to believe that.

Speaker 3 13:37

This is Diane Horvath . I'm an O-B-G-Y-N and the co-founder and chief medical officer at Partners in Abortion Care in College Park, Maryland. I use she her pronouns. Right now, the thing that is giving me hope is seeing how people are showing up for each other. This is a really, really hard time to be working in abortion care and to see the kinds of things that patients go through and the the lift that staff has to do to make really scarce resources go even further. But I feel like at those really low times, that is when people really bring out their very best. And I think that's when we can shine in the way that we hold each other up in my own like personal moments of despair. And in times when I wonder if I'm going to be able to continue to do this work, I've reached out to my dearest friends , um, and I every time, every time they just lift me up. And I think that we are never without resources when we have our people. So we're gonna be okay. We're gonna save us 'cause nobody else is coming. Um, but I think that our best resources are us and I'm grateful and hopeful that we will continue to rally around each other and to elevate the needs of the people that we care for and get through this the best we can.

Speaker 4 15:01

Hi, I'm Bien Ru Snyder. I use she her pronouns and I'm the senior policy fellow at the Council for Global Equality. What's bringing me joy and hope this summer is reading, reading inside, reading outside, listening to audio books as I walk. And two particular types of reading. What's bringing me joy is sports romances. And I wanna recommend everyone spend some of their summer diving into sports romances. I just finished cleat . Cute, there's so many more to go. It's an Olympics summer. It's just a great time to just embrace that joyfully. The other type of reading, which is more bringing hope than it is bringing joy is reading some nonfiction about moments in the United States in which we've been on the very precarious edge with fascist movements. It's been giving me a lot of historical perspective moments like the rise in Nazism in the United States, in the 1930s books about the Klu Klux Klan in the Midwest and its integration into the political systems during the 1920s. And while I know this doesn't sound like joyful or hopeful reading it is to me because I think it's really powerful to read about the moments and how close we've come, how deeply it is enmeshed within American history. And so sort of tied to white supremacy and the way we've used the United States has had really, obviously the underlying history of the country, but then these moments that have been even closer to falling into to sort of pure fascism and dictatorship and away from any striving towards inclusive democracy. And the books have given me particular hope because none of them are about Superman figures. They're not about a single man, the president, the Supreme Court, any one person being what held back the tide in all of these histories. It's the stories of a lot of individuals, many of them quite mundane, quite local , um, not in positions of power who take a lot of steps oftentimes having no idea what moment they're in and just doing the next right thing. And I think for me at this moment , um, seeing that there is , um, there's no no sort of big savior figure coming and that that's okay and that, that people being in community together, working together, trusting each other and doing the next right thing from wherever you are, that's what's happened and worked before. And if that's what we have and we we can bring right now, that's a really important , um, hopeful message for me. So those were my moments of hope and joy. It's reading, it's reading sports romances and it's reading books about American history and fascism. So that's what I've got for right now.

Speaker 5 18:38

This is Greer Donley. She her, I'm an associate professor at the University of Pittsburgh Law School focusing on reproductive rights. What's bringing me hope or joy? I think for me it's the polls on abortion. It's the knowledge that the anti-abortion movement is going against the tide. That people are increasingly supporting abortion rights, more people are supporting abortion rights, more people are supporting abortion rights later in pregnancy. More people are supporting abortion rights for any reason. All of these things suggest that the anti-abortion movement is running a fool's errand, that even though they might have some significant short-term victories, especially if President Biden loses the election, or if President Trump wins the election, I should say, even in that situation, they might, you know, try to revive Comstock. They might try to remove merestone from the market, they might do all sorts of terrible things, but they are going against the will of the people. And at the end of the day, I just don't think there's a long-term victory there for them. I think, you know, the long-term prospect for abortion rights is good, but you know, it's probably gonna get worse before it gets better. So I think that's what's giving me hope. It's thinking about the long term and hoping that the long term is not too long, right? That it's, we're talking about, you know , hopefully less than a decade and, you know, trying to realize that no matter what they do in the short term , the horrible things that they're doing, even though you know real people's lives are going to get ruined because of them, they can't change public opinion, right? They are actually, everything's going in the opposite direction for them. Um, and that's because you know, the consequences of their actions are on the front page of the news every day . Um, the horrible tragedies people are starting to realize more than ever before that abortion is a part of reproductive healthcare . It can't be, you know, divided up and set aside and siloed. It's an integral part and it's impossible to distinguish sometimes between miscarriage and abortion, between medically necessary abortions and non-medically necessary abortions. Um, and that's true at all stages of pregnancy. So they're fighting a losing battle. The question is just, you know, how long does it take , uh, for us to win back the rights that we should never have lost?

Speaker 6 21:06

I'm Reverend Katie Zay . I use she her pronouns and I am the CEO of the religious community for reproductive choice. You might remember us as their religious coalition for reproductive choice, but we recently updated our name, which is honestly giving me joy. I have often talked about hope as a discipline and a spiritual practice that we do in community. And I've often talked about hope as something that is more than a feeling that we have. And it's not something that requires us to feel it all the time. I think that we can take turns holding hope together because I certainly don't feel hopeful or joyful every single day. But I do find hope and joy in this community of repro activists and leaders who keep me going on the days that I, I don't feel hopeful. That being said, there are a lot of things bringing me joy and hope right now on the professional side. We recently did our very first virtual training for Compassionate Care. And this is for anybody who is interested in learning how to accompany someone spiritually through making a reproductive decision or going through a reproductive loss. And this training was so well attended, we had over 200 people register and about 85 join. And it was a 90 minute training. And we all know Zoom trainings can be really challenging to keep people engaged, but I was blown away by the rich discussion and conversation that people had over that hour and a half that we were together. In some ways it really did feel like we had built a community in that time. And I was surprised that people said that they actually wished that the training had been longer, that they would've liked to have been together for, for longer than that. And so that was something that really gave me a lot of hope to know how many people continue to feel compelled, interested in engaged in the work of being that compassionate presence for people going through reproductive crises and and making decisions. So that's one thing that's definitely giving me a lot of joy and hope. And I also wanna say I'm, I'm here in North Carolina and there is an amazing group of interfaith activists who came together about a year ago who have formed this coalition. They're the interfaith voices for Reproductive Freedom and they're some of the most dedicated volunteers I've ever seen . And they have representation from congregations all across the Raleigh Durham Chapel Hill area of North Carolina and expanding. And I'm so moved by their commitment to doing that work here locally in North Carolina and I'm honored to be part of that work also. Those are a few things that are giving me hope and joy and , um, I look forward to hearing how other people are staying hopeful in these times.

Speaker 7 24:20

Hello, my name is Tara De Demand . My pronouns are she her hers and I work for Amnesty International and I'm based here in dc . I've talked before on the podcast about how it can be hard for me to generate a feeling of hopefulness, especially when I feel dread and fear and they are such powerful emotions and they're very, very present for probably most of us right now and deservedly so. But I also know that the way we consume news and the way we live our American life in general is one that generates hopelessness and despair and that those who are pressing our rights and who are fighting against us, they count on that. So I don't have any new or novel advice on how to feel hopeful except for that it really does matter to listen to your body. Hopelessness is an emotion and it's a physical and mental reaction. And you can reduce the ways in which despair and hopelessness have entry points like stopping doom, scrolling or reducing the alerts you get on every device you have. You will know the news, I promise you, you can read the news. But having news interrupt you at every moment and have access to you 24 hours a day is really bad for you. It's bad for our bodies and it's bad for our minds. And it freezes us into inaction, which of course is super for those who are creating the doom and the despair and those who are capitalizing off of it. It doesn't mean the news isn't terrifying or that we stick our head in the sand, but for the love of God, like go take a walk outside every once in a while <laugh> like when feel things, feel emotionally too much, tend to yourself and your body. That can create change in your mentality. And it means not allowing yourself to be manipulated into hopelessness. And that's a , a really important start. And there are so many reasons to hope and remembering that others have come before us in our country and in other countries, and that others will come after us and continue in this work . Remembering that this is not the end, but we're in this fight together. That is a reason to hope. I personally find that the growth of support for abortion rights in this country and the sheer number of people who are working daily for the right to abortion and for justice more broadly brings me great hope . Hope those who are working for their communities and for a better future. Because I believe in that future that we're building, I believe it is right? I believe it is just, I believe it's worth showing up for. Even if you don't feel hopeful in a moment, doing the work and showing up is an act of hope. Also, focusing on things that bring you joy in your life is important. So that means doing things outside of work, whether it's your paid work or your advocacy work and your volunteer work. So talking with friends and loved ones, doing something for someone else. These are ways we can build emotional resilience and we're going to need a lot of emotional resilience. Having a hobby is important. I garden, I knit, I read a lot. These outside things are really central to our fight. And you might be feeling an immense weight that makes you think I can't take time out of the work I , or doing this thing for myself is selfish. And first know that that's capitalism and the patriarchy telling you. But also know that taking time for yourself is showing up for the movement. We need to be there in the long haul and we need to be rested and able to show up. And if we are burnt out or we are so hopeless that we are inactive, that is not the work of the movement. So doing these things for yourself is doing the work of the movement. The other thing I think about when I'm feeling incredible despair and which which happens there is a lot to despair about is action. Action is the antidote to despair. So when I'm feeling overwhelmed or hopeless, I stop scrolling. I tend to my body like I said and I, but then I also can do something about it. I write a postcard to a voter, I sign up to volunteer to door knock . I work on the abortion book club. I've been thinking about starting <laugh> . I will never be the magic wand answer the the thing that solves the entire crisis that we're facing. But we just need to do something and doing nothing, don't do nothing, just do something. And that itself is also an incredible antidote to despair. So yes, this is the fight of our lives and it is terrifying and dark and dangerous times seem truly to be before us, but we can do this work for the joy of it too. For the fun of it. It is stressful and scary and enraging, but also I get to show up every day and fight for something I believe in and that's fun and it's joyful and a lot of people have got to be willing to do that to show up for the sheer joy of being in it together and for fighting what we believe in. So those are the way I think about hopefulness and joy and just knowing that all of you are thinking about that as well also brings me a lot of hope.

Speaker 1 29:26

Okay, y'all, I hope you enjoyed hearing all the bits of hope and joy from so many wonderful people. Again, I'm just so incredibly grateful to everybody who participated. Thank you so, so much. And y'all, I'll see you next week. If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jenny jn , NI e@reprofightback.com , or you can find us on social media. We're at re pros. Fight back on Facebook and Twitter are re pros FB on Instagram. If you love our podcast and wanna make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you wanna make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at re pros fight back.com . Thanks all .