Who Gets to Define "Family" is Political

“Family values” brings up a very specific image rooted in the narrow idea of what a family is—such as a white, heterosexual marriage with children and a picket fence. But this image leaves out a lot of people, and so many families do not look like the image of the “nuclear” family that is often uplifted. Preston Mitchum, attorney, advocate, activist, and sometimes-reality-tv-personality, sits down to talk with us about conservative definitions of “family” and “family values“ and how those concepts shift into real, harmful policy.  

Religion, tradition, power, and national identity tie closely into conservative interpretations of “family values.” This excludes nontraditional households, the LGBTQI+ community, and many more people, and ascribes political power to that exclusion. Housing, reproduction, immigration protection, marriage access, and adoption access are policy indicators that often do not reflect lived experiences for families and ultimately expose people to further marginalization. 

For more information, check out: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/cbc-podcasts/2058-two-blocks-from-the-white-house

Transcript

Jennie 0:41

Hey rePROs, how's everybody doing? I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. Y'all, it is hot in DC right now. I am recording this on Thursday, April 16th, and normally I wouldn't whine to y'all about it being hot, but like seriously, it is mid-90s and it's mid-April. I am not ready for it to be in the mid-90s and mid-April, but it's also bothering me because I've been just recording, and so that means I have to have like my windows closed, the AC off, like all those things. And so, I've been, like, slowly roasting in my little spot where I record, and I am ready to um turn the AC on for a little bit to cool off my place as soon as I finish recording this. Let's see what else. Oh, so I was just ran across my copy of The Abortion Companion: Affirming Handbook for Your Choice and Your Journey by Becca Rea-Tucker. And we did a podcast episode on it, I don't know, it feels forever ago, but I think it was like earlier this year. Definitely check out that episode if you haven't heard it. But also, I was thinking about she did a book swap earlier this year where you could buy copies and have them sent to clinics or abortion jewels or abortion funds who may have use for them for their patients and such. And so, I bought some for a fund or not a fund, I think a clinic in Madison, which was so wonderful to send back to where I'm from. And I was just thinking that I was going to do that again. And I thought I would challenge all of us to take part in it. So, she has a link on her website. I will include it in our show notes where you can send her a note and say how many copies of the book you would like to buy. If you have like if you live in Wisconsin and want to make sure a Wisconsin provider gets it, or if you want to make sure abortion funds get it, or you can like fill out little things and she will send you who you should send it to. So, let's all set buy some copies and send them where they can be the most useful, but also make sure you get yourself a copy. We'll have the Bookshop link in our show notes. It is such a beautiful book, a great handbook that Becca said she wrote it as the book she wished she had when she had her abortion. And I'm sure there are so many people who could use something like that right now or while they're in a clinic. So, making sure clinics have copies that people can look through while they are getting their abortions. So let's all do our part and buy copies. So, links will be in the show notes below the episode. We'll have it in whatever podcast player you're on, but also on our website. So definitely go buy some copies. Like I said, I thought it was a wonderful book. I really enjoyed it. It was just so affirming and positive and uh just such a great book. I really loved it. So, check out our episode, but also buy a book and pay it forward and send some to some clinics or abortion funds. With that, maybe a little housekeeping. I feel like it's been a while since I've done that. But if you love the podcast, it would be great if you could rate and review us on your favorite podcast player to help other people find it. Tell a friend. We are always looking for more people to learn about the amazing work that we talk about and learn about these issues and how they can get involved. So, please share it around. If you love the podcast and want to support us, you can always donate. We do have a giveaway on with donations. So if you give $25, we have these amazing stickers that we had Liberal Jane designed. So we'll send you a collection of those stickers. If you donate $50, we also have this amazing tote bag that says abortion is a human right, not a dirty word. That is different from the one that is in our bonfire shop. So you will get that, and that's the only place you can get it is through donating. So, please, we would love it if you would support us. But also, we have a Bonfire store. So if you love those designs that are on the stickers or on the bag, we have it on other types of bags and water bottles and mugs and t-shirts. Check out our Bonfire store. I have several things from it, and I love all of them. We just got ordered some water bottles that for the office, and they're gorgeous. I really it looks really nice on the designs, look really nice on the water bottles. I love them, so definitely make sure to check out our bonfire store and support repros at the same time. We'll also have links to that in our show notes. Okay. So, with all of that, let's go to this week's episode. I am so excited. We have on the wonderful Preston Mitchum. He is a senior fellow with rePROs Fight Back, but he is also just an amazing advocate in reproductive justice. And I always love getting to have conversations with him. They are always thought-provoking, and I am so grateful and feel so lucky to have him as a rePROs Fight Back Senior Fellow. So, with that, let's go to my conversation with Preston. Hi, Preston. Thank you so much for being here today.

Preston 6:19

Hey Jennie, how's it going?

Jennie 6:21

Good. I am so excited to talk to you. It feels like it's been forever, but I don't think that's actually true.

Preston 6:27

I'm sure it's been just a month or so, but you know what? With these times, what are dates anymore? I know. I'm so terrible about like, did that happen last week or three years ago? I don't know. Or probably both.

Jennie 6:42

I know. Before we get started, for anybody who's new, would you like to introduce yourself?

Preston 6:49

Yes. Hey listeners and friends and fans. I am Preston Mitchum. I use he/him pronouns, and I'm an attorney, advocate, activist, and sometimes reality TV personality based in Washington, DC, though I hail from the Midwest.

Jennie 7:03

That's right. I forgot about that. That we are both from the Midwest.

Preston 7:07

Yes, yes. Listen, Midwest people all day, friend. I think there is something so beautiful about folks from the Midwest, and people really have to go to experience it.

Jennie 7:20

Agree. Agree. There are times I miss it, but also I really do enjoy living here.

Preston 7:25

Yeah. Love DC as well. Love the South too, right?

Jennie 7:29

Yes. Yes. Okay, I'm really excited for the conversation we're gonna have today, and I think you're the perfect person to have it. There has been this, there's been for a long time a huge fight around family values, but I feel like it has really amped up in the last couple years. So, what do you think of when you hear family values and like what's missing from that?

Preston 7:55

No, you're absolutely right. When people hear the phrase, or at least when I hear, when I heard, I should say, the phrase "family values," it, you know, often brought up a very specific image, right? Like, I am very clear that much of society's certainly a conservative rhetoric around family, is usually rooted in tradition, respectability, and the narrow idea of what a family is and what it's supposed to look like. Often white, heterosexual, married, and with children, the 2.5 kids in a picket fence, if you will. But what's also struck me is not just what the phrase includes, but what it leaves out, and more importantly, who it leaves out, because for many of us, our lived realities have never fit neatly into that definition. I was born in Youngstown, Ohio, raised in Dayton, Ohio. Most of my life and most of my family members' lives were raised in single parent households. Actually, for a couple of years in my life, I lived with my grandmother. While my grandfather was in an assisted living facility, and I lived with my grandmother and my sister as my mom was navigating a divorce. And they were no less family to me than my mom would have been. My mom was also married, right? And so at that point in time, that was my family. It was my mom, her husband, and my sisters. That was my family then. And so, you know, I think we should really think through what it means to broaden the definition of family, because so many families don't look like the nuclear family, especially if you are a family of color, especially depending on where you're living generationally and culturally, it brings up many different examples of who and what a family is and what it represents. And the past several years, um, many conservatives have gone on this this journey to define what a family is and define what family values are. And I have also always argued that that sometimes and many times does not look like what some of us have believed family to be and therefore the connected family values.

Jennie 10:08

Yeah, I so my family was also a little different growing up in in some ways. I grew up with three sets of grandparents. So, my mom's parents, my dad's parents, and then this adopted set of grandparents that were not related to me at all, but they were no less my grandparents than the ones that were my parents' parents.

Preston 10:32

Exactly. Exactly, and they shouldn't be, right? Like a family is who you define as your family. People who you love, people who sometimes frustrate you, people who you know aren't gonna disrespect you, people who you know that when they do disrespect you, you have to determine, right, whether they will be a part of a close-knit family with you, um, like other members of your family. And then oftentimes, as a queer person, we speak a lot about chosen family. I mean what it means to have a chosen family, meaning when our biological family, or people who we are taught that are only our virgins of our family, disappoint us, reject us, push us out, among other things, um, we get to then determine who is actually our family. And so I would argue family is not just biological, though there are many people who would try to argue that it is. Uh family is also who you choose, who loves you, who you don't have to fight for their love.

Jennie 11:28

That just makes me think, how have conservatives been so successful in shaping this narrative around what family is, to this like really narrow perception?

Preston 11:38

I mean, the reality is family values didn't just emerge, or at least so-called "family values" didn't just emerge organically. It's been shaped over time, particularly to your point, by conservative movements that have tied it to things like morality. Religion has a lot to do with it, and national identity. And you know, I just want to go back to religion a little bit. I think many people who have who've grown up, probably in the Bible belt, who have learned and have been reared as religious, regardless, frankly, of the religion, but usually like evangelical Christianity or something of the like have defined very specifically what it means to have family. And what they're really discussing is actually what it means to have children or not have children, and what it means to actually raise specific children when you're married, when you're only with one spouse. And so, I would argue that family values oftentimes are even tied to puritanical traditions and things that are seen as like your body is only so important as it is to bear children. And when you really sit with that, defining family is about power. It determines who is seen as legitimate, who's worthy of protection, and who is oftentimes pushed to the margin. So, when queer folks, when single parents, when non-traditional households or chosen families are excluded from that definition, it's not just cultural, it's also political—meaning it shapes everything from social stigma to policy decisions about how people procreate or if they decide to, um, or how they raise their children, if they decide to raise children at all.

Jennie 13:13

I think you already see like perfect segue into what is at stake when you we define family. Because, like you said, it's not just social, it is political.

Preston 13:22

Yeah, you know, for me, my understanding of family has evolved over time. I think I always at least thought of family as not, you know, as we stated atop the call. I never I don't think I ever believed it was the white picket fence, the two two and a half kids, the wife and the husband, etc. But my views were a little bit more limited because I knew what I knew. But it certainly evolved over time, right? I think a lot of a lot about the role of silence, especially in Black communities, around things like sexuality, trauma, and identity. There are often things that we just don't say, even when everyone feels them. There are things that we may not be conditioned to say, even when you see them. And it deeply ties to white supremacy and white supremacy ideology, and it drives your silence. It drives what you're able to see or not see or speak to or not speak to. And that silence can serve both as a form of protection and harm. So to say it differently, it can hold families together, but it can also prevent people from being fully seen, loved, and understood. That's true, especially for Black queer folks. Navigating family often means navigating both deep love and deep complexity at the same time. And so for me, though it didn't start rooted in a conservative framework, it certainly wasn't as progressive as it is now. So it's evolved over time, and I put it simply, it is exactly what you believe your family is. Now, in some instances, the law hasn't even caught up with that. I remember in law school really thinking more specifically around family, and there have been constitutional law cases that have limited the meaning of family, right? Around like multi-unit dwellings and around who and how many people can be in a particular home. Sometimes they say it's for safety and security and inhabitable or habitable living conditions. I would argue it's really attempting to regulate what a family is. And if the law is not there to protect you, then what else ultimately can be, right? We have our cultural traditions and we should always uphold them. But the law also needs to keep up with some of our own definitions and evolve in the evolution of "family."

Jennie 15:35

Oh man, as you were talking about silence, it just also made me think of again being from the Midwest of like the things you don't talk about, or and sometimes that was even as much as like from from like my generation, like feelings, like you just these were things that were not talked about.

Preston 15:52

Absolutely. And I wrestle with that because part of me, I think the trauma side of me wants to believe that it wasn't talked about because people were attempting to silence us all the time. I think that's true in some instances, if I'm being honest. I think a lot of times people were just navigating complexity in the best way they knew how. And sometimes people thought that silence meant our survival. If you just be quiet, if you just observe and don't say anything, if you don't push back, if you don't, you know, push like push the fence or frustrate people, then you will survive and you make it through. But I have learned that everything comes at a cost. And so, the way that I am now is if people are gonna judge you, if people are gonna criticize you, if they're gonna be frustrated by what you say, what you believe in, and what you do, what are we gonna be willing to do to pay the high price anyway?

Jennie 16:47

Yeah, no, definitely. I feel like I'm still on my journey with that in some ways, as somebody who is terribly innately a people pleaser and trying to make everybody happy and trying to find the balance of letting that go in my head and not letting that control control me is been a path.

Preston 17:08

Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's difficult. It's difficult. I think many people have have been taught to be people pleasers because they're just trying to they're just trying to make it through. Yeah. They're just trying to make it through. And you know, the thing I've often come back to is realistically, people pleasing doesn't even help the person who thinks they're pleasing everybody.

Jennie 17:33

Because you can't, right?

Preston 17:35

And in fact, yeah, those people are probably more stressed because they realize they can't please everyone, but they're trying to anyway. And so, I think when we break that, when we break silence, we we really can build better relationships with people, including family.

Jennie 17:50

Okay, so you started to talk about some of the ways that laws and policies will reinforce the definitions of family. Are there other laws besides you talked about housing, but are there other things that come to mind?

Preston 18:02

Housing is probably one of the biggest ways, of course, but I think even you know, when you're unpacking reproduction, right? I mean, we we can take an example of recently, you know, actual people being called into Zoom court in the hospital around C-sections.

Jennie 18:23

Yeah.

Preston 18:24

In many ways, people don't connect that to family, but it is a reproductive justice issue, which is also a family issue, So people are still determining how you can actually give birth, even in certain states, and that is a direct family issue. It may not look like housing, for example, where you can clearly draw the number of units versus the number of people in said units. That is probably more of a through line, but there's a broad understanding, and or at least should be a broad understanding of what we're discussing when we mean family and family values, and that includes anything that is attached to your body, including how you decide to deliver a child if you decide to deliver one. Um, and so that's just like another example that I've seen because these ideas don't just live in culture, they're embedded in policy, right? We see it also in again, who gets to access who gets access to marriage, adoption, healthcare decision making. Again, like one of the examples I just mentioned, immigration protections, and even who's recognized as next of kin. I used to teach LGBTQ+ Health, Law and Policy at Georgetown University Law Center, and a core part of my class was really unpacking some of the previous decisions before we had our burger fill, but around like who is even recognized as next of kin, or examples of when couples, lesbian couples have been together for 10, 15, 20 years and unfortunately pass on, they sometimes can't even be granted hospital visitation rights. And so those that's again, that's not just culture— that is policy, that's law. And so, how are we actually broadening our understanding of not just culture, but how to actually embed what we know culturally into law and policy? Because those systems assume a very specific kind of family structure. But the reality is people's lives are far more complex, as we both know and I'm sure as your audience knows. And so, they're not gonna necessarily always meet up to the policies that govern them, but they should. And when policy does not reflect lived experience, it leaves people vulnerable, it leaves them more susceptible to violence, it leaves them further marginalized, and that is what we have to pay attention to.

Jennie 20:41

I think that is such a great point to try and get policy to match the way people actually live their lives, and and I think this comes up when we talk about intersectionality, right? So, policy is often written not taking into account these overlapping things. It's really focused narrowly on one specific thing and not taking in the wholeness of a person.

Preston 21:05

Oh, absolutely. I mean, like that is, and that's by design, right? Like, it is very purposeful for laws to look at us as very siloed, as people who don't have collective identities, collective voices, ownership over our own bodies, that our race and our national identity and our gender and our sexuality are all separate, and therefore we don't need collective laws and policies that recognize the existence of us, the entirety of us. And we see that with family as well. We've seen that with family for a long time. There is an assumption and a presumption, even, that people do not exist as whole beings. And so, law and policies are seeing us as one-dimensional when we are multidimensional people that live multidimensional lives. And so there is an understanding of intersectionality that has to apply here too. Because when it comes to family, that we're talking that that is that is a prime example of intersectionality, right? Like, we're discussing family, we're discussing how laws and policies impact people at the intersection of their identities, be it race, disability, income status, gender, among others.

Jennie 22:15

So let's bring it back. You were talking about chosen family, and I think there's been this this view that kind of permeates that like chosen family is is secondary or like lesser than actual family. Is that still the case?

Preston 22:31

I do think that in many ways, right? Like, I deeply believe... well, one, let me let me go back by saying it depends on who you're speaking to, obviously, right? You're asking me that question. So naturally, I would say that chosen family and biological family are one and the same. And or sometimes your chosen family matters more than your biological family, right? I remember years ago I wrote this article op-ed, I can't remember which publication, but it was essentially, you know, saying, do not disparage people who choose not to spend the holidays with their biological family, right? If people have decided that-

Jennie 23:06

I feel like I remember reading that.

Preston 23:08

Yeah, like, if people decided that their chosen family are people who will support them, that they don't have to be stressed out about, that they don't have to hide their sexuality, then surely they should spend the holidays with people who they see love them, right? Not the people who they will have to question themselves or lie about who they are, just to just to maintain peace. That's not peace, at least it's not inner peace. And so, I believe that deeply. I think you will find many people, unfortunately, in certain movements, more conservative movements, more religious movements and spaces, who don't believe that, who really and frankly, some progressive spaces, who deeply believe that your family, and by a lot of them they mean bio, biological family, you should just forgive and forget. You should just do what you need to do because blood is thicker than water. And I would argue sometimes that water is a lot more fluid than blood. And so, I will take fluidity over thickness any day when it comes to what I believe is close in terms of family.

Jennie 24:08

Yeah, you want to be with the people who love and accept you for who who you are in the fullness of that representation.

Preston 24:15

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And it's I mean, and I think most people theoretically understand that. Most people, most people, I hope, would not want you to put yourselves in harm's way just because you happen to be related to someone. I mean, like when you really think about family, let's be honest. It's really about who people in your family procreated with in order to have you, and then so did their siblings, right? Like it's not like- it's purely coincidence. And so, I really do get frustrated that with this idea that you can't have closer relationships to other people because that's just not true. And to me, that is not even deeply rooted in family values.

Jennie 24:54

Yeah, I think of like my large Irish Catholic family. Like, my mom is one of eleven, and I'm the only child in that mix, so there is a lot of us. And luckily, we all mostly get along, but I'm also not around them as much. So, they may not know me in my fullness of me, they may know a lot of me, but not all of me, because I live in DC and they're in Wisconsin, so they are the family I see once a year.

Preston 25:28

Exactly, and that's what happens oftentimes. When I got married last year, I remember how many people in my family, my biological family, would DM me, and I would ignore most of them, to be honest. They would DM me basically like believing they were gonna get an invite. You know, I can't wait to your wedding. I'm like, you can't wait to see pictures, or what what exactly can't you wait for? Because these are people that there was no hostility or tension, we just didn't speak. Yeah, I mean, these were people who I genuinely have not spoken to in probably two, three years. And you know, to even assume you will be invited to my wedding is kind of wild behavior, in my opinion, just because you're family. And so, to me, when I think of family and I think of values, right, separately and I think of them collectively, that is not a value I am willing to honor, right? I'm not gonna honor the value of just inviting people to see me be married to the love of my life just because we're family, when the value is not connected to that.

Jennie 26:28

So, we've talked about like this vast complexity of family and chosen family, and how you put your family together is unique and different. So that kind of leaves it with: how do you define family? Like, what is like a sentence or a simple way that you use to define family?

Speaker 1 26:49

I think in short: family is quite literally who you believe will be there for you, who will support you, who will love you; it is not tied to biology or legal ties necessarily even; it is deeply just rooted in who shows up, who sustains you, and who allows you to fully live as yourself. I know that's not one sentence, but hopefully we can put semicolons there to create a sentence. But that is what I truly believe. Again, who sustains you and who allows you to live fully as yourself?

Jennie 27:27

I love that. I think that's a great definition. So we usually end asking, what can people do? And I don't know that that quite fits today's conversation. So maybe we'll go with: what do people get wrong when they talk when they think about family, and what do you wish people understood about family?

Preston 27:49

I love that reframe. I think what people often get wrong is assuming family is fixed. For for many of us, family is something that we build, we protect, and sometimes have to fight for in and out of the courtroom. That is something that I think we that people get wrong. And what's your second what's your second part again?

Jennie 28:10

What you wish people understood.

Preston 28:12

I wish people understood that, you know, we live in a world, surely, that often treats relationships as less legitimate because they're not biological or legal, and that hierarchy is something we actively have to challenge. So, that is something there; I think really figuring out: how do we actively challenge the the harms of just assuming that there's one definition of family, and that only certain people can be a part of family? Because for so many people, and again, I always go back to it, but go back to this, but especially people like queer folks, you know, this is not secondary, it's essential, it's about survival, care, and intentional love. And, you know, I'll be remiss if I didn't bring up, you know, I'm a part of the ballroom community and I'm a member of the International House of Combe de Garcons. And during the house, during Ballroom and House, you know, back in the 80s and in the 90s, these houses named after fashion houses were created because many LGBTQ+ young people, especially, were being pushed out of their homes. They were being abused by their biological family, especially their parents. And these non-biological parents, these chosen families came in and took under these young people as their children, right? That's why we have people that we call our moms who are part of our room and house community, right? There are their siblings, right? And it's because that is another world we created for ourselves when we were not being received well or loved or affirmed um as part of our biological family for no other reason that we looked and loved differently. So that is that is the part I always want to leave with in these conversations. Family, if family values matter so much, if there's one dimensional and biological families matter so much, then why is it that those same people abuse and hurt and harm us, and then we're expected to stay with them? That doesn't seem like it's love at all. And I am always encouraging people to do things that feel right for them again to go back who sustains you and who allows you to live fully as yourself, and that is what should matter, nothing else.

Jennie 30:16

Yeah, and I've talked about like intimate partner violence and and how there's this whole range of of how it shows up as. That's the same with harm. So, you have to protect yourself from harm in the fullness of what that means. So, maybe it's emotional abuse, maybe it is financial, like there could be a whole number of ways it shows up, and there is no one way that you're like, it has to be this before you cut your family off. You really need to do what is right for you.

Preston 30:49

Correct, and only you know that. Only you know that.

Jennie 30:53

Preston, as always, it is so lovely to talk to you.

Preston 30:56

Always great talking to you, Jennie. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Jennie 31:00

Okay, y'all. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Preston. Like I said, I always love getting to talk to him. I always learn so much, and they're always just such thoughtful conversations. I feel lucky to have him as a Senior Fellow and to know him and to get to read and support his work. So, thanks, Preston. And with that, I will see everybody next week. [music outro] If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com, or you can find us on social media. We're at rePROs Fight Back on Facebook and Twitter, or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and want to make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you want to make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprosfightback.com.