Abortion, Crisis Pregnancy Centers, and What Else to Watch in Indiana

Indiana was the first state to sign, pass, and enforce an abortion ban after the Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization Supreme Court decision, which went into effect in 2023 (Missouri saw immediate enforcement via a trigger ban). Now, almost everyone must leave the state to access an abortion. Forest Beeley, Program Director for All Options, which runs Indiana’s singular abortion fund, sits down to talk with us about Indiana’s current sexual and reproductive health and rights landscape.

Reproductive healthcare and abortion in Indiana face an uphill battle. Title X clinics in the state of Indiana face increased limitations on what information they can provide, but they are there to see patients, nonetheless. The state has a Planned Parenthood affiliate, but two centers in Indianapolis are currently closing due to federal Medicaid cuts. Crisis pregnancy centers, (CPCs) or fake clinics, are extremely common in Indiana and across the U.S. Ultrasounds are performed by non-medical personnel, they are not bound by HIPPA, and abortion is often not offered as an option for care. 

Abortion funds need your support to continue providing on-the-ground services and resources to those seeking an abortion and to steer clear of harmful CPCs. 

For more information, check out: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/cbc-podcasts/2058-two-blocks-from-the-white-house

Transcript

Jennie 0:03

Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice. Hi, rePROs. How is everybody doing? I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So, I feel like this week has just been pure chaos. I am recording this on Thursday, April 30th, because I'm gonna be out of town this weekend. So I wanted to make sure to get this recorded early for the episode you're listening to. And this last week was just been like all the things, just so many things happening all at once, including getting having our big report card webinar, which uh thank you for everybody who came. I think it was a really wonderful event. We had an amazing storyteller, Georgia, who opened the webinar sharing her abortion story. She was so wonderful. Thank you to We Testify for helping us connect with Georgia. She did such an outstanding job. And then, I talked about the report card and what is in it. And then we had the wonderful Shellie Hayes-McMahon with Planned Parenthood Advocates of Texas on to talk about what we are seeing in Texas right now, what how we got to this place in Texas, and why we need to be keeping an eye on it because what happens in Texas doesn't stay in Texas. So, it was such a great conversation. I am so grateful to our wonderful speakers and everybody who came. Just huge thank you to everybody. But that meant like my focus was completely on getting everything for the webinar. And I had didn't have the ability to take on any external what is happening in the world stuff. But I know with the Supreme Court basically overturning the Voting Rights Act or basic completely gutting it, this is gonna have just major negative long-term implications for the work that we do and for so many issues. I'm sure we'll do an episode about it in the very near future, talking about what this means, particularly for sexual and reproductive health, but it's gonna have so many implications so much further afield than things that we focus on, that it's hard to take it all in at the moment, especially at a point when my brain is already like overloaded with all of the things that I have happening at the moment. So yeah, I feel like that's kind of a bleak place to leave it before we get to this week's interview. So maybe I'll do like a little fun thing. For some reason, I thought it would be a great idea to get the cats some new little balls they could play with. They have a bell in them. Y'all, what was I thinking? Luna is like obsessed, so she keeps playing with the little ball with the bell in it. So FYI, there may be times when you're hearing this in the background of a podcast because she is like enamored and has really been loving them. So if you hear a little tinkle, tinkle tinkle in the back of a podcast, that would probably be Luna playing with her new balls that she just absolutely loves. So, fun little Easter egg to keep an ear out for. Definitely not in today's episode because I got them after I recorded today's, but in the future you may hear some bells in the background. Okay, so that was a little lighter. So then let's go to this week's episode. We have on Forest Beely with All Options to talk to us about "crisis pregnancy centers" or anti-abortion centers, and to talk to us about what it looks like trying to get abortion care in Indiana right now, and also about the important work of abortion funds. And then I'll just add like a little note here. I'm sure our my editors did the best they could to clean it up and you may not even hear it, but the fan on her computer was going, and at times you could hear it in the background. So just if you hear like a little buzzing, that is the fan on her computer. My editors are amazing, so I'm sure they will clean it up as best they can. But just FYI, you may hear her laptop fan every once in a while. So, with that, let's go to my interview with Forrest. Hi, Forest. Thank you so much for being here today.

Forest 4:15

Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Jennie 4:17

I am really excited to talk to you today, but before we get started, would you like to take a minute and introduce yourself?

Forest 4:24

Yeah, absolutely. My name is Forest Beely. I am the Programs Director for All Options. We run the All Options Talk Line and provide unconditional open-hearted support to people in all of their reproductive experiences. We run the Faith Allowed Spiritual Care Line, and we also have a strong presence in the state of Indiana and run the Hoosier Abortion Fund, which is the state's only independently run abortion fund.

Jennie 4:51

Wonderful. Well, I am really excited to talk to you about abortion funds today, but I thought maybe we'd start. There's been some reporting recently talking about crisis pregnancy centers and like the funding they're getting from state governments. And it seemed like a really good time to maybe talk about crisis pregnancy centers. It's been a while since we've talked about them on the podcast. Would you like to like tell us a little bit about them and why they are problematic?

Forest 5:16

Yeah, absolutely. So, crisis pregnancy centers are independent entities that operate all over the country and offer quote unquote "medical services" for reproductive health and pregnancy. They will offer ultrasounds, they will offer what they call options counseling. And what most of these are are really fake clinics. They have ultrasounds that are performed by people that are not medical personnel. Their "all-options" counseling usually does not include abortion. And these fake clinics are prolific all across the country, especially here in Indiana. The town that I live in, which has about 85,000 people, has two crisis pregnancy centers located within it. And the state of Indiana specifically, in their last two fiscal years, has given over $4 million each fiscal year to an organization called Real Alternatives that also helps run some of the crisis pregnancy centers in the state. Last year as well, our state put out a concurrent resolution from the legislature advocating the wonderfulness of these crisis pregnancy centers, which the governor signed. So, they are really common here in Indiana, really common all across the country, and they aren't providing actual medical care and they aren't providing actual options counseling, which is when a pregnant person gets to have a conversation about all of their options that are available to them while they're pregnant, whether that is parenting, abortion, or adoption.

Jennie 6:50

Yeah, and I think what's so dangerous and scary about them is, like, people don't often know that they are at a fake clinic, and so they think they are getting factual, honest advice or information, and that is often very much not the case.

Forest 7:05

Yeah, absolutely. It is not uncommon on when we speak to folks that are Hoosier Abortion Fund clients that they tell us that they have an appointment for an abortion in Indiana, and upon further conversation, we realize that it's actually a crisis pregnancy center. So, we're having those kind of conversations with people. The other thing that does happen sometimes too is it's the only ultrasound provider in a county or an area where somebody lives. And so, we have conversations with Hoosier Abortion Fund clients as well who may need an ultrasound or may want to get an ultrasound about what to expect when they go in a space like that and how to advocate for themselves and their healthcare.

Jennie 7:42

Yeah, I, you just hear those stories of people who are told, you know, oh, you're too far along or X or Y, and in ways that it is not true, and it and impedes people from getting the care that they want, which is always scary. Like, I know the warning signs to look out for, but the general public just doesn't know— it seems like a place to go, like you said, to get a free ultrasound or or not free ultrasound, and then also thinking they're a medical clinic and bound by HIPAA and things like that, which they are not.

Forest 8:17

Exactly. And some of these crisis pregnancy centers as well will operate as quote unquote "pregnancy resource centers" or "parenting resource centers." So, they'll lure folks in with the promise of diapers and parenting support, and that support is really nominal, is a pretty small amount. One of the things that we do at the Hoosier Abortion Fund is we send a pretty sizable amount of diapers to all of our clients who request them every month because we think it is so important that people are able to parent with dignity. Diaper needs, really important. And I know one of the crisis pregnancy centers here in the town I live in gives out about 10 diapers at a time when we're sending over 150 a month to each family that we've worked with.

Jennie 9:00

So, you're in Indiana. I'm originally from Wisconsin, and they have something very much in common. We just did our annual 50 state report card looking at sexual and reproductive health across the country, and both states got failing grades. So, what does access to care look like in Indiana right now?

Forest 9:21

So, access, are you speaking abortion care or reproductive care in general?

Jennie 9:26

Honestly, probably both, right? Like, I think it's both that have problems.

Forest 9:31

Yeah, absolutely. So, we can talk about just general reproductive care first. We do have what are called Title X clinics in the state of Indiana. Those clinics offer reproductive health services, birth control, pap smears, STI testing to people who are reproductively capable within the state. They do have some regulations about how they can talk about abortion, how they can refer for abortion. And the state of Indiana, as well as the federal government, really wants to increase the limitations that Title X clinics increase the limitations on information that Title X clinics can provide. But they are here and do offer some services. We also have a Planned Parenthood affiliate here in the state that actually is in the process of closing two health centers in Indianapolis due to federal Medicaid cuts, which is really unfortunate because it is so important that people are allowed to choose their health care provider regardless of whether or not they're on Medicaid or not. And so, that's really, really unfortunate and is gonna greatly impact folks in Indianapolis. And I know that Planned Parenthood has had to close other clinics in the state in the last few years as well. There is a really great program called Path4You that works at some of the Title X centers, and it is a program in conjunction with Indiana University School of Medicine, and they do provide birth control at reduced or no cost to folks as well, so that's a really good referral. But a big issue in Indiana, even though it's not a huge state, there are some really rural parts of our state, and with increasing gas prices, increasing prices of cars, just people trying to live their lives, sometimes it's hard to get that care. As far as abortion care goes, Indiana is the first state to pass a new abortion ban after the Dobbs decision, and so it took about a year for that ban to actually go into effect because there was a court case about that, but it did go into effect in August of 2023, and since then almost everyone has had to leave the state for abortion care. There are a few exceptions. Pregnancy is the result of rape or incest is an exception, a medical condition of the pregnant person that could severely impact their life, or a fetal indication. Those are reasons that you can get an abortion in Indiana, but you have to do that at a hospital, which is expensive and not accessible to everyone. So right now we are funding folks going out of the state of Indiana. I would say about 85% of them go to Illinois. The rest, almost the rest, go to Michigan or Ohio. But it is, yeah, it's it's quite a journey to go to another state to get medical care.

Jennie 12:15

Yeah, and especially when those are states that other people in the region may be needing to travel to and makes it harder to get appointments.

Forest 12:23

Absolutely. We've seen folks most recently booked out about two or three weeks, which doesn't sound that like that big of a deal. But when you're pregnant and looking to terminate a pregnancy, time is really of the essence. And the further along the pregnancy is, the more costly a procedure can be. So the other thing people don't think about with travel is that like just traveling an hour might not seem like that much, but if you're not used to going to Chicago, it can be really, really daunting. Yeah. Yeah. So and Chicago's not the only option, obviously, but you know, it is it's a lot to have to leave the state, and people get worried and scared and concerned. And travel's an issue there too. So, we work with folks like the Chicago Abortion Fund and the Midwest Access Coalition to make sure people can actually get to their appointments as well.

Jennie 13:16

Yeah, it's one of those things that I think people don't understand the full scope of like waiting two weeks or needing to travel, like it may mean taking an extra day off of work or child care or having to get a hotel room or all of these things that add to the cost, not just the actual cost of the abortion. There are so many things, and that inhibits people's ability to access care.

Forest 13:45

Yeah, absolutely. Child care is a huge issue, especially because for a lot of abortion procedures, you can't have your you can't have your child with you. It's not an option. And you know, a lot of people have support, but there are a lot of people out there too who really don't have support in this decision-making process and don't have support during their procedures. People, you know, there's stigma around abortion. People are hesitant sometimes to tell friends and family members, and it it just makes all of it really hard.

Jennie 14:16

Well, I think that brings us to then a really important thing, and that's abortion funds. They really help people be able to access the care, especially when cost is a barrier. So, let's talk about it. What are abortion funds and what are some of the things you're seeing right now?

Forest 14:31

Abortion funds are awesome, first and foremost. They are amazing.

Jennie 14:35

Yes.

Forest 14:36

I worked on the clinic side of abortion care for a long time, and so I've been working for All Options for about three and a half years now, and it it's been really, really wonderful. So, what what we do is we fund um appointments primarily. So, if somebody reaches out to us and if their average first trimester abortion is between six and nine hundred dollars, maybe they qualified for some in-clinic funding, but they can't meet the rest of that gap. That's a lot of money for a lot of people. And so, what we do is step in and work with the clinic to cover the cost of their appointments, and then we will work with other funds who do what's called practical support, so: provide rides, childcare, provide stipends for lost wages, meals, hotels, all of that. And it really is an ecosystem because while we're a pretty small fund, it's- I'm the only staff person in Indiana. We have some volunteers. We are so happy to be in community with folks like the Chicago Abortion Fund and the Midwest Access Coalition that have a slightly bigger reach and can provide that practical support. And it's wonderful because I feel like we're all on the same page. We all really would just want to make sure people get care and make sure they get care timely and are treated with compassion and dignity. And I would say that almost all abortion fund folks that I've talked to and worked with share that same vision.

Jennie 16:03

When we talk about like this is the work I do, I often get the, like, how how do you keep going? Like, it's so bleak. And like, how like how can you keep doing this? And the work that abortion funds are doing to ensure, like people on the ground are doing in general to ensure that everyone is able to get as as get the care they want. Like, it gives me so much hope to see all of the amazing work that is being done, because like you said, there's all these clinics working together. You'll see calls out on social media of like, hey, we have somebody who has a big need and like can't meet it. And you'll see those like people jumping in and donating and trying to ensure that that happens and and watching all of that just it gives me so much hope in this moment of around this fight for a better future, and that is what keeps me going as we keep fighting all of the bad.

Forest 16:57

Yeah, I feel so like lucky to be able to do this for a living, especially right now, because it really does keep me grounded, it gives me a a very narrow kind of sphere of control of something I can directly impact. Yeah, over the last couple years that has just been so very important, and I can just focus on the person in front of me and make sure their needs are getting met, which is really, really wonderful. Like I said, I feel so lucky to be able to do this for a living.

Jennie 17:29

And I also feel like it's important at this moment to talk about, you know, there was this huge outpouring of support after the Dobbs decision and lots of people donating. But I feel like that has trickled off. And so, like, let's talk a little bit about that elephant in the room because sometimes I think if you're in this space, you are familiar with what is happening. But I think maybe some of the broader people who may be listening to the podcast don't know, like, there really is this need at this moment to continue to support abortion funds, especially right now, isn't it?

Forest 18:01

Fund-a-Thon time, it is Fund-a-Thon time. Fund-a-Thon time is every spring, it's a chance for abortion funds to all get together on the same page and activate their communities, work with volunteers to friend raise is what we call it. So encourage friends and family to donate. Um, we have folks that are holding events, like we have some folks that we know that are holding a trivia event in Indianapolis next month. So, Fund-a-Thon is really great. And it comes back to the fact that the majority of the money that we are able to provide to patients who need abortions comes from individual donations. And whether that is $5 or thousands of dollars, all of it matters. We received, I think, around $700,000 around the time of the Dobbs decision and spent that I think within about 18 months. I need to go back and double check, but since then the amount of funding coming in has gone down. So, last fiscal year we spent about $400,000, or pledged almost $400,000 to clinics, and this year we're looking at about half that, and we are working really hard to make sure that those dollars go as far as possible. But every single dollar counts, it's a really great way to give back to your community. And like I said, even five dollars matters. Like we have folks that set up like five dollar monthly donations, and that's important to them, that's meaningful to them. And so, also, I mean, the larger amounts are better as well. But I was having a conversation with with my stepdaughter who set up a Fund-a-Thon page this year, and she's [like] my friends don't have any money. And I was like, but everybody can give a little something. You can give a little something back to your community. And I think that's so important.

Jennie 19:53

I that is my big whenever we talk about abortion funds and and why it's important to donate, is talking about the importance of monthly donations. Absolutely. I am a monthly donor to several different funds, and it is, you know, I'm not doing like the huge donations, but I can do a you know a reasonable monthly one, knowing that that means that abortion funds knows they can count on that amount of dollars every month. It helps them be able to budget and plan for the year versus getting other donations and fits and starts, they they don't know what to expect. So, if you can be a monthly donor, it really does make a huge difference in particular groups like abortion funds being able to plan on what they can spend each month.

Forest 20:41

Absolutely. It is something that we definitely build our budget around and something we we expect. And I think what does NPR call them "sustaining donations"? But they really are, they help make us sustainable.

Jennie 20:54

So, what is something you're keeping an eye on right now? Like, I feel like there's like new terrible policies always being proposed. So, in Indiana, what is something that you are just, like, keeping an eye on what's happening?

Speaker 21:08

Yeah, sure. I think this is kind of two parts, I guess. One is I've gotten to the point probably over the last year, 18 months, is I try not to get activated by everything I hear, which is really difficult. Yeah. So there is some of that, but we do have some developments going on in Indiana. Hoosier Jews for Choice were plaintiffs in a case here in the state of Indiana that was challenging um the abortion ban based on sincerely held religious beliefs, which was a permanent injunction was put in place by a court in Marion County, which is where Indianapolis is located. What that injunction did is it gives folks who have a sincerely held religious belief that they have a right to an abortion. It gives them that opportunity within the state. The state of Indiana's Supreme Court is actually going to hear oral arguments. In September, because the state has appealed that decision. So that's definitely something we're keeping an eye on, and something that's that's very interesting because it's this idea of who gets to define what a sincerely held religious belief is. And part of the the way that that case was structured was using the Religious Freedom and Restoration Act that was passed when Mike Pence was governor back in I think 2011, 2012, something like that. So, we're definitely keeping an eye on that. And then every year we're keeping an eye on the legislature. This year we got out of legislative session without any really horrible abortion bills passing. There was one we were keeping our eye on called SB 236 that would have essentially been similar to Texas's bounty hunter law, allowing regular citizens to sue people for the use of medication abortion. It also defined abortion in some really weird ways that didn't include things like molar pregnancies, which are really serious. It's a serious medical condition. So, every year we're just keeping an eye on what the legislature is trying to trying to do as well.

Jennie 23:10

Yeah, it's it there's always so much happening and like needing to keep an eye on. And the faith one, I think, is particularly interesting, right? Like, whose vision of faith matters. And I think we've really seen I mean, honestly, it feels like the last decade and a half at least, where faith has- the these faith protections have become instead of like a shield to protect people, a sword they're using to try and force one vision on everybody. So it's great to see the innovative ways that people are um trying to push back.

Forest 23:51

Yeah, it is, and it's really the discourse online has been really interesting surrounding this. As you mentioned, some very conservative Christians really pushing back on the idea that this could be a sincerely held religious belief for somebody that they have the right to an abortion. And it's really interesting, this idea of like, yeah, religious freedom for who? And it intersects with us in another way as well, because we run the faith allowed spiritual support line, which people can call and talk to a faith leader who is very aligned with our values about any reproductive questions, thoughts, feelings, options counseling, talking about abortion. You know, and that's that's really important. And faith is such a huge part of people's lives that it deserves to be respected in that way as well.

Jennie 24:40

Yeah, we've definitely had people come and talk about on the podcast how you know their faith has brought them into this work. We've had a rabbi on talking about the Jewish belief around this, and it is very much a sincerely held like fundamental value that there are that it is acceptable, but there are also cases where it is like a must, like, it is required. And so that was also really interesting. And so, to see this being used as a way to to change that narrative and actual gig up policy change would be really great.

Forest 25:18

It's interesting that we're using a law that some people like used as a reason to discriminate against folks in a way that was not intended. And I wouldn't be surprised if we see more of that across the country.

Jennie 25:34

We'll make sure to include the link to the conversation I had with with the rabbi in our show notes. So if people are interested, they can go back and listen. It was a really great conversation, and I think it's it's always important to hear from people of faith talking about how some of these loud voices don't speak for everybody, and like they they aren't aren't encapsulating all of the faith views on sexual and reproductive health.

Forest 25:58

Absolutely, a hundred percent. And it's yeah, I would I would actually love to hear that podcast as well. That sounds awesome.

Jennie 26:06

I will make sure you get it.

Forest 26:08

Thanks.

Jennie 26:09

Okay, so we always like to end our conversations, not talking about doom and gloom, but talking ways that people can get involved. So, what are what are some ways that people can help fight back right now?

Forest 26:22

Sure. So if you are interested in helping folks in Indiana access abortion, you can always donate to the Who's Your Abortion Fund. Our website is all-options.org or an abortion fund in your state. Those funds matter, those funds that you donate, like, abortion funds run lean. That money is getting used really, really well. It 's used for taking care of people. If you have a practical support organization in your community and maybe somebody needs volunteers for rides, find out who that is in your community. See how you can how you can help. Make sure, make sure, make sure you vote locally, federally, state. Voting is so so important. Our voter turnout in Indiana is not great, and I sincerely believe that if our voter turnout was better, we would have better policies in our state. And take care of your friends and family. It's such an important value, such an important Midwestern value, actually, to take care of your family, to take care of your community, to know your neighbors, and just keep that in mind. And sometimes, that means watching somebody's kids while they go get an abortion.

Jennie 27:37

This was such a great conversation and wide-ranging. We talked about so many things, but it was also very important. Forest, thank you so much for being here today.

Forest 27:46

Thank you so much for having me.

Jennie 27:48

Okay, y'all. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Forest. It was great to learn more about what is happening in Indiana right now. And yeah, it's always great to hear more about state level work. And I will see everybody next week. If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@ reprosfightback.com, or you can find us on social media. We're at rePROs Fight Back on Facebook and Twitter, or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and want to make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform, or if you want to make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprosfightback.com. Thanks all.